@Orlena said:
Anyone have an update on this series? I’m curious about the interest from the public. I’m looking at this as the beginning of the series and will stick around for a couple years to see if it flames out.
I guess you might need an inside source at the mint to know, but figured I’d throw it out there
The peace dollar and the CC morgan where the big winners from last year.
Because there’s only one choice of mm and such you would think, 2023 , perhaps. Now prices and product quantity will have an effect but with no commemoratives and massive mintage on the ase’s, there’s a chance these will be it. Nobody likes the Liberty or armed forces medals. The silver proof set and limited edition set are way expensive. They messed up the woman’s quarter program with terrible packaging and increased mintage. What’s left? So maybe 😁🙀
I think Morgan and Peace Dollars will always have a base of support. They’re popular coins and there are collectors who are growing tired of the different quarter programs. The medals aren’t popular because they’re medals.
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Seems reasonable. The poor mint is just trying to break even. If I look carefully at the gigantic price increase of silver!! Wait, no it’s cheaper than last year. They just are reaching for the moon. 😂
No. They are just sticking their finger in the air, seeing what other mints around the world charge, realize that these will be very popular regardless of what they charge, and choosing to grab a little more for themselves.
These were never going to be great flips just based on the mintages. The $5-9 increase per coin is going to allow them to grab an extra $10.5 million for the Treasury. Hard to blame them, even though it sucks for us.
Now that pricing has been provided, below are the current subscription
numbers, updating the spreadsheet (above) that @MetroD started for these releases:
~ NL currently has 42,146 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 250,000;
~ NG currently has 156,980 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 400,000;
~ NJ currently has 168,954 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 400,000;
~ NH currently has 82,087 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 275,000;
~ NK currently has 87,308 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 275,000.
I convinced a family member to subscribe to the three Proof releases. If I believe that these will be highly sought after, I plan to have a few on hand to offset my own costs.
Will the recently announced higher prices, as with the ASE Proof lackluster sales, lead some to not purchase these as well??
*** Note, ALL the work above is originally based upon the work of MetroD - I just plagiarized their prior work to update the numbers.
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Seems reasonable. The poor mint is just trying to break even. If I look carefully at the gigantic price increase of silver!! Wait, no it’s cheaper than last year. They just are reaching for the moon. 😂
The 2021 Morgan and Peace dollar offerings went at $85 each.
I have a hard time believing that any of these are going to be highly sought after if by that you mean that there will be an active secondary market at prices materially north of the mint price. There are still enrollments available after 7 months of them being open. I backed my orders down to one of each. IMO, the Mint is making more than enough of these to appease the collectors (which should be who they are catering to) while simultaneously killing any flipping opportunities.
@jeffas1974 said:
I have a hard time believing that any of these are going to be highly sought after if by that you mean that there will be an active secondary market at prices materially north of the mint price. There are still enrollments available after 7 months of them being open. I backed my orders down to one of each. IMO, the Mint is making more than enough of these to appease the collectors (which should be who they are catering to) while simultaneously killing any flipping opportunities.
You're probably right, EXCEPT for the RP set. Unique sets of popular coins with 250K mintages have had legs in the past.
There are only 42K left now, and the public is not yet focused on it. It's unique and has never been done before. It might not be a triple, but I think it will sell out and then do well in the secondary market.
Maybe not, but it's also not selling at a huge premium to similar mint products, so it's probably a reasonable risk to take. They are never going to be bullion. JMHO.
I really don't agree with this. I got one of each because I am a dumb a-- mint slave on such (at least came down from the 3 each of the 2021's). Let's face it, nowadays there had better be something extra special about a mint release to make any product of 250k be special or in demand. The RPs are a LITTLE special but gimmicky...
This is not the heyday of the 1970s through 90s IMHO.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@7Jaguars said:
I really don't agree with this. I got one of each because I am a dumb a-- mint slave on such (at least came down from the 3 each of the 2021's). Let's face it, nowadays there had better be something extra special about a mint release to make any product of 250k be special or in demand. The RPs are a LITTLE special but gimmicky...
This is not the heyday of the 1970s through 90s IMHO.
TBD. If you think the first ever RP Morgan and Peace Dollars are just a LITTLE special but gimmicky, I'm not going to argue with you. If you think the mass marketers aren't going to gobble up whatever is left as soon as ordering limits are lifted, I'm not going to argue with you.
Finally, if you think those same mass marketers are not going to go on eBay, or start sending out e-mail solicitations to pay premiums for sets they were unable to procure at the issue price, I'm not going to argue with you.
You might be right, and none of that might happen. But it seems like a reasonable speculation.
The Congratulations sets were garbage on Thursday, when the waiting room was unnecessary and over 10K were available at the end of the day. 10 minutes after HHLs were lifted the next day, they were all gone. And that's nothing more than 40K cardboard wrappers around a coin with an unlimited mintage, if you wanna talk about something that's not special and is gimmicky.
@NJCoin I am in agreement that the reverse proof sets will quickly get bought up once the HHL limits are removed. If it weren’t for the fact that these are a subscription and not just a one year issuance then I would be more excited about them. The ‘21 Morgan O’s look to be a one off with lower mintages and I can readily buy those on eBay for 2 times the original price.
I do like these coins and I will purchase them but I think the relatively high levels of issuance and expectations to roll them out in subsequent years are capping the upside.
@NJCoin said:
The Congratulations sets were garbage on Thursday, when the waiting room was unnecessary and over 10K were available at the end of the day.
...And that's nothing more than 40K cardboard wrappers around a coin with an unlimited mintage, if you wanna talk about something that's not special and is gimmicky.
Don't knock the cardboard wrappers!
Have you seen the cost of a Hallmark Card lately??
Getting the Congratulations set is like buying a Hallmark card - with a free coin included in the deal!!
@jeffas1974 said: @NJCoin I am in agreement that the reverse proof sets will quickly get bought up once the HHL limits are removed. If it weren’t for the fact that these are a subscription and not just a one year issuance then I would be more excited about them. The ‘21 Morgan O’s look to be a one off with lower mintages and I can readily buy those on eBay for 2 times the original price.
I do like these coins and I will purchase them but I think the relatively high levels of issuance and expectations to roll them out in subsequent years are capping the upside.
And I agree with you as well. None of us has any way to know what the long term future holds. Did they open subscriptions merely to make the ordering process orderly, or are they actually going to be an annual set? If the latter, will there be a long term premium attached to the first year of issue?
Who knows? All we can really speculate on is whether they will be worth more than the issue price a week after they go on sale. And it appears as though they will be. Beyond that, who knows? The odds are high that they will go up and then settle down, like most things from the mint.
Those 2021 Morgans were worth a lot more a month after release, and, even now, they were worth buying at the issue price. I just don't think these are going to be duds, even with a mintage of 250K.
eBay is always a click away. The above mentioned pricing would be a little higher than eBay would reveal. Drop the estimates 10-20% and that’s realistic. And ask is not sold. Which might be the best source for a good estimate for a price. 👍🏼
Lots of production problems and fiznunk in and on the coins and packaging
Just look at the insane eBay asking prices for 70’s. Not in my lifetime. Silly but there it is and that’s that 🙃
Current subscribers are not able to access their subscriptions to increase quantity, however " Friends & Family " can place new subscriptions for the higher limits
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
What is going to happen here is the mint is going to let you order 5 of the reverse proof and then the night before the release they are going to come out with email and say due to unprecedented demand limit everybody to only 1.
@BStrauss3 said:
One of the articles quoted the Mint spox and said that 90% of the mintage has been claimed via subscriptions.
Given the way the market bleats, I think they're priming the pump for an immediate sellout and thus "success". Putting more coins into the hands of the flippers - now that all of the real collectors have had time to subscribe - makes that more likely.
Remember this from last year ? They claimed the ASE's were sold out thru enrollments, however thousands became available after the on sale date.
************According to the email I received from the mint, both proofs and the uncirculated eagles are sold out thru enrollments.
They say that it is unlikely that many will be available when they go on sale. Will this be the case or is this just hype to get more enrollments? ** Remember that box of chocolates thing** !!!
Remember I warned that the mint was up to new tricks this year to game the gamers. Sold Out ? Available, Back Order, Available again, Remind Me, Back Order again. They just keep coming and coming.
They are producing a boatload of these coins. You will be amazed at the final quantities.
The flip on this year will be marginal due to the quantities, prices and falling demand for mint products. WE are to the point that it will take a one off with a very limited mintage and a hhl of 1 to make a good flip.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Dealers and flippers large and small will get all the coins they want thru subscriptions by friends and family at issue price.
Demand for raw coins will be minimal.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Thanks for taking the time to update us on the inventory status. Your efforts are appreciated.
It appears that the flippers, dealers and friends and family have boosted their orders since the increase in the HHL. I hope it turns out well for all.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@HATTRICK said:
I have reduced my subscriptions to 1 of each proof coins and 1 RP two coin set.
At least they should be pretty coins to look at and then leave for the grandkids.
Why not buy ALL of the grandkids their own individual proof - that they can have for themselves...otherwise, they have to fight for the 1 coin of each that you're purchasing!
I love the cat pictures. I miss my Bella very much.
For everyone else my secret is I only have two grandkids. They will each get one of the proofs. I have two 20 coin boxes that I am making for them. Already half filled with eagles and commemoratives from their birth years. They show no interest in coins now and I will not know what happens when I am dead.
As for the reverse proof set that is for me and will probably sold like everything else when I am gone.
As with all shiny silver coins I buy, they are for my enjoyment for as long as I live
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
A couple of observations for the subscriptions over the past 24 hours:
1) across the board, it it interesting that new subscriptions added were very close to 100 x HHL.
2) The Morgan unc might be fully subscribed / no longer available via subscription by the end of next week.
.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Nearly 37,000 additional subscriptions for the Morgan proof in the last 24 hours. (either new subs or other inventory correction). Similar to the nearly 40,000 subs for the Peace proof in the 24 hour period between 3/24 and 3/25.
.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@Tomthemailcarrier said:
I signed up for the enrollments on the Silver dollars. I’ve never owned a proof silver dollar before. The reverse proof sounds particularly interesting!
You can buy a clad proof Eisenhower for about $20.
@RichR said:
For what some see as "losers", they seem to be flying out the door like hotcakes...
But what do I know?
Maybe they are flying off the shelves. I don’t trust anything the mint sez. Remember last year and this year the “end of the world “ predictions for the proof ase’s. “ All almost all sold out before release “. Yah right. 2 weeks later they are available 🤨🥱
I am also on the cusp.
I fear the dreaded FOMO.
I'm not one that buys from the mint and then sends them in for grading and they really don't fit in my collections.
Right now I am subscribed for 1 of each of the Morgan's and Peace.
I think (dah) my money would be better spent on other wants.
SO.........................Opinions?
I had cancelled my Silver dollar subscriptions based on the higher HH limits. Today I activated the Morgan and Peace uncirculated and Reverse Proof. There’s plenty of time to undo it if it seems like a mistake. Release day is a nightmare best avoided.
Comments
I think Morgan and Peace Dollars will always have a base of support. They’re popular coins and there are collectors who are growing tired of the different quarter programs. The medals aren’t popular because they’re medals.
No. They are just sticking their finger in the air, seeing what other mints around the world charge, realize that these will be very popular regardless of what they charge, and choosing to grab a little more for themselves.
These were never going to be great flips just based on the mintages. The $5-9 increase per coin is going to allow them to grab an extra $10.5 million for the Treasury. Hard to blame them, even though it sucks for us.
Now that pricing has been provided, below are the current subscription
numbers, updating the spreadsheet (above) that @MetroD started for these releases:
~ NL currently has 42,146 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 250,000;
~ NG currently has 156,980 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 400,000;
~ NJ currently has 168,954 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 400,000;
~ NH currently has 82,087 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 275,000;
~ NK currently has 87,308 available subscription units out of a mintage limit of 275,000.
I convinced a family member to subscribe to the three Proof releases. If I believe that these will be highly sought after, I plan to have a few on hand to offset my own costs.
Will the recently announced higher prices, as with the ASE Proof lackluster sales, lead some to not purchase these as well??
*** Note, ALL the work above is originally based upon the work of MetroD - I just plagiarized their prior work to update the numbers.
BST references available on request
The 2021 Morgan and Peace dollar offerings went at $85 each.
I have a hard time believing that any of these are going to be highly sought after if by that you mean that there will be an active secondary market at prices materially north of the mint price. There are still enrollments available after 7 months of them being open. I backed my orders down to one of each. IMO, the Mint is making more than enough of these to appease the collectors (which should be who they are catering to) while simultaneously killing any flipping opportunities.
You're probably right, EXCEPT for the RP set. Unique sets of popular coins with 250K mintages have had legs in the past.
There are only 42K left now, and the public is not yet focused on it. It's unique and has never been done before. It might not be a triple, but I think it will sell out and then do well in the secondary market.
Maybe not, but it's also not selling at a huge premium to similar mint products, so it's probably a reasonable risk to take. They are never going to be bullion. JMHO.
I really don't agree with this. I got one of each because I am a dumb a-- mint slave on such (at least came down from the 3 each of the 2021's). Let's face it, nowadays there had better be something extra special about a mint release to make any product of 250k be special or in demand. The RPs are a LITTLE special but gimmicky...
This is not the heyday of the 1970s through 90s IMHO.
Well, just Love coins, period.
TBD. If you think the first ever RP Morgan and Peace Dollars are just a LITTLE special but gimmicky, I'm not going to argue with you. If you think the mass marketers aren't going to gobble up whatever is left as soon as ordering limits are lifted, I'm not going to argue with you.
Finally, if you think those same mass marketers are not going to go on eBay, or start sending out e-mail solicitations to pay premiums for sets they were unable to procure at the issue price, I'm not going to argue with you.
You might be right, and none of that might happen. But it seems like a reasonable speculation.
The Congratulations sets were garbage on Thursday, when the waiting room was unnecessary and over 10K were available at the end of the day. 10 minutes after HHLs were lifted the next day, they were all gone. And that's nothing more than 40K cardboard wrappers around a coin with an unlimited mintage, if you wanna talk about something that's not special and is gimmicky.
@NJCoin I am in agreement that the reverse proof sets will quickly get bought up once the HHL limits are removed. If it weren’t for the fact that these are a subscription and not just a one year issuance then I would be more excited about them. The ‘21 Morgan O’s look to be a one off with lower mintages and I can readily buy those on eBay for 2 times the original price.
I do like these coins and I will purchase them but I think the relatively high levels of issuance and expectations to roll them out in subsequent years are capping the upside.
Don't knock the cardboard wrappers!
Have you seen the cost of a Hallmark Card lately??
Getting the Congratulations set is like buying a Hallmark card - with a free coin included in the deal!!
Win Win
BST references available on request
And I agree with you as well. None of us has any way to know what the long term future holds. Did they open subscriptions merely to make the ordering process orderly, or are they actually going to be an annual set? If the latter, will there be a long term premium attached to the first year of issue?
Who knows? All we can really speculate on is whether they will be worth more than the issue price a week after they go on sale. And it appears as though they will be. Beyond that, who knows? The odds are high that they will go up and then settle down, like most things from the mint.
Those 2021 Morgans were worth a lot more a month after release, and, even now, they were worth buying at the issue price. I just don't think these are going to be duds, even with a mintage of 250K.
Anyone know what these two are going for?
I'm holding on to these guys for the time being.
edited to add: Gorgeous coins, this thread got me to pull them out of my safe.
MS70 100th Anniversary First Strike
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/44186604
MS70 100th Anniversary First Strike
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/44186608
Just a couple of clicks away....https://www.pcgs.com/prices/detail/modern-silver-clad-commemoratives/792/most-active/ms?pn=2
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
These are not silver clad commems. What are you thinking?
The Peace Dollars are selling for between $340 and $400.
The Morgan Dollar is selling for between $150 and $180.
Spot on.
eBay is always a click away. The above mentioned pricing would be a little higher than eBay would reveal. Drop the estimates 10-20% and that’s realistic. And ask is not sold. Which might be the best source for a good estimate for a price. 👍🏼
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Why does the 2021-D Morgan in 70 command such a high premium?
edited to add: Not even First Strike here.
Thanks for the responses above.
Almost $900 with juice.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1319940/2021-D-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-100th-Anniversary-PCGS-MS-70
Lots of production problems and fiznunk in and on the coins and packaging
Just look at the insane eBay asking prices for 70’s. Not in my lifetime. Silly but there it is and that’s that 🙃
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
The 2021D Morgans had tons of issues. Lots of blue threads on and struck-in the coins. And I think some had scuffing issues.
Some numbers that support the prior responses:
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/792?l=modern-silver-clad-commemoratives-1982-date&ccid=0&t=3&p=MS&pn=2
Silver AND Clads!!! The link is the correct one.
I'm thinking you should click and go to the bottom of the page and see for yourself.
Welcome.
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
Wow! As a visual learner, that is a glaring example of, "Houston (Denver), I think we have a problem here".
BST references available on request
The site is jacked up right now... Maybe they should have enacted the "Waiting Room".
I can't see my subscriptions. I tried to re-subscribe but the site will NOT let me add any.
BST references available on request
I also called them - they indicated their system is going through an update and to try again later.
Of course, I 100% believe them!!
Ah, a finely run Gov't organization!
BST references available on request
Current subscribers are not able to access their subscriptions to increase quantity, however " Friends & Family " can place new subscriptions for the higher limits
It’ll be interesting to see how much availability numbers change after today. I’m not sure why they just didn’t uncap the HHL at this point.
What is going to happen here is the mint is going to let you order 5 of the reverse proof and then the night before the release they are going to come out with email and say due to unprecedented demand limit everybody to only 1.
Update complete. I am now able to change subscription quantities on Mint website.
@BStrauss3 said:
One of the articles quoted the Mint spox and said that 90% of the mintage has been claimed via subscriptions.
Given the way the market bleats, I think they're priming the pump for an immediate sellout and thus "success". Putting more coins into the hands of the flippers - now that all of the real collectors have had time to subscribe - makes that more likely.
Remember this from last year ? They claimed the ASE's were sold out thru enrollments, however thousands became available after the on sale date.
************According to the email I received from the mint, both proofs and the uncirculated eagles are sold out thru enrollments.
They say that it is unlikely that many will be available when they go on sale. Will this be the case or is this just hype to get more enrollments? ** Remember that box of chocolates thing** !!!
Remember I warned that the mint was up to new tricks this year to game the gamers. Sold Out ? Available, Back Order, Available again, Remind Me, Back Order again. They just keep coming and coming.
They are producing a boatload of these coins. You will be amazed at the final quantities.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1073086/2022-ases-sold-out-by-enrollments-the-w-unc-no-way-the-s-is-unlimited-mintage-official/p1
@BStrauss3 said:
Or to put it another way... if they started day-of sales right now, between 22 and 43% of the product would be available for sale...
thanks for the chart. As always this will be another story to follow. good luck to all who want to collect and also to those who like to flip
The flip on this year will be marginal due to the quantities, prices and falling demand for mint products. WE are to the point that it will take a one off with a very limited mintage and a hhl of 1 to make a good flip.
Dealers and flippers large and small will get all the coins they want thru subscriptions by friends and family at issue price.
Demand for raw coins will be minimal.
I have reduced my subscriptions to 1 of each proof coins and 1 RP two coin set.
At least they should be pretty coins to look at and then leave for the grandkids.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@SPalladino
Thanks for taking the time to update us on the inventory status. Your efforts are appreciated.
It appears that the flippers, dealers and friends and family have boosted their orders since the increase in the HHL. I hope it turns out well for all.
Why not buy ALL of the grandkids their own individual proof - that they can have for themselves...otherwise, they have to fight for the 1 coin of each that you're purchasing!
Wait, unless that is your secret plan!
BST references available on request
I love the cat pictures. I miss my Bella very much.
For everyone else my secret is I only have two grandkids. They will each get one of the proofs. I have two 20 coin boxes that I am making for them. Already half filled with eagles and commemoratives from their birth years. They show no interest in coins now and I will not know what happens when I am dead.
As for the reverse proof set that is for me and will probably sold like everything else when I am gone.
As with all shiny silver coins I buy, they are for my enjoyment for as long as I live
A couple of observations for the subscriptions over the past 24 hours:
1) across the board, it it interesting that new subscriptions added were very close to 100 x HHL.
2) The Morgan unc might be fully subscribed / no longer available via subscription by the end of next week.
.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Nearly 37,000 additional subscriptions for the Morgan proof in the last 24 hours. (either new subs or other inventory correction). Similar to the nearly 40,000 subs for the Peace proof in the 24 hour period between 3/24 and 3/25.
.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
You can buy a clad proof Eisenhower for about $20.
Big reduction in Morgan and Peace product availability in the last 24 hours!
.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
SPalladino, Thanks for the updates, Here we go with that "Box of Chocolates" thing again.
Will they or won't they ? No one knows for sure. Get ready for another fun ride.
For what some see as "losers", they seem to be flying out the door like hotcakes...
But what do I know?
Maybe they are flying off the shelves. I don’t trust anything the mint sez. Remember last year and this year the “end of the world “ predictions for the proof ase’s. “ All almost all sold out before release “. Yah right. 2 weeks later they are available 🤨🥱
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
So, I don't have any subscriptions for the UNC...Only the Proofs and RP.
Why do I feel the urge to subscribe to the UNC now...as if I may be missing out on something!
BST references available on request
I am also on the cusp.
I fear the dreaded FOMO.
I'm not one that buys from the mint and then sends them in for grading and they really don't fit in my collections.
Right now I am subscribed for 1 of each of the Morgan's and Peace.
I think (dah) my money would be better spent on other wants.
SO.........................Opinions?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I had cancelled my Silver dollar subscriptions based on the higher HH limits. Today I activated the Morgan and Peace uncirculated and Reverse Proof. There’s plenty of time to undo it if it seems like a mistake. Release day is a nightmare best avoided.