I believe the mint has learned to close enrollments before they wipe out the inventory in an effort to have some available on day of sale. Note the drastically reduced limits with the enrollments.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” - Satoshi Nakamoto
@derryb said:
I believe the mint has learned to close enrollments before they wipe out the inventory in an effort to have some available on day of sale. Note the drastically reduced limits with the enrollments.
I hope you're right but I think your giving them to much credit.
We'll see
@HATTRICK said:
I think the intention here is to give more collectors a much longer opportunity to get their orders in for these and avoid the secondary market.
Yes, and I really appreciate the Mint doing this. It has solved many problems I had in the past. For the 2021 Morgan and Peace dollars, I missed out on all of them because I just could not break through the crowds on release day before they sold out. So, I ended up getting them all from a dealer, and I was glad to be able to do that (all PCGS MS70).
The 2023 Morgan and Peace dollar product options, with the maximum number of coins available, number of enrollments placed as of July 27, rounded off, and number of coins those enrollments reflect, rounded off, are:
ä Uncirculated 2023 Morgan dollar, 275,000 coins maximum, struck without P Mint mark at Philadelphia Mint; 21,000 enrollments reflecting 42,000 coins.
ä Uncirculated 2023 Peace dollar, 275,000, struck without P Mint mark at Philadelphia Mint; 25,000 enrollments, reflecting almost 50,000 coins.
ä Proof 2023-S Morgan dollar, 400,000 coins, San Francisco Mint; 25,000 enrollments, reflecting nearly 50,000 coins.
ä Proof 2023-S Peace dollar, 400,000 coins, San Francisco Mint; 24,000 enrollments, reflecting nearly 48,000 coins.
ä Reverse Proof 2023-S Morgan and Peace dollar two-coin set, 250,000 sets; 25,000 enrollments reflecting approximately 50,000 sets.
At this time it is likely that most enrollments are collectors that want them for their collections. As we have seen with the ASEs nothing is selling out do the bulk buyers getting the 40 coin trays without going to the resell market making flipping DOA. Also the mint could decide to offer 40 coin trays of these to the bulk purchasers which would make them DOA for flipping
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
The 2023 Morgan and Peace dollar product options, with the maximum number of coins available, number of enrollments placed as of July 27, rounded off, and number of coins those enrollments reflect, rounded off, are:
ä Uncirculated 2023 Morgan dollar, 275,000 coins maximum, struck without P Mint mark at Philadelphia Mint; 21,000 enrollments reflecting 42,000 coins.
ä Uncirculated 2023 Peace dollar, 275,000, struck without P Mint mark at Philadelphia Mint; 25,000 enrollments, reflecting almost 50,000 coins.
ä Proof 2023-S Morgan dollar, 400,000 coins, San Francisco Mint; 25,000 enrollments, reflecting nearly 50,000 coins.
ä Proof 2023-S Peace dollar, 400,000 coins, San Francisco Mint; 24,000 enrollments, reflecting nearly 48,000 coins.
ä Reverse Proof 2023-S Morgan and Peace dollar two-coin set, 250,000 sets; 25,000 enrollments reflecting approximately 50,000 sets.
Thanks for sharing this information.
If anyone is interested, here is a link to the full article.
@MetroD said:
If anyone is interested, here is a link to the full article.
An interesting blurb that I noted from within the coinworld article:
The Mint is currently accepting enrollments for the program’s product options, a marketing avenue that helps the Mint foresee demand for the program.
While the above comment might produce valuable marketing data - I do not honestly believe that US Gov't workers, employed by the US Mint, would know how to properly capitalize on that data as someone in the real marketing world would know how to do.
Another blurb of note:
Plans for 2022 coins were announced but then abandoned due to planchet shortages. Mint officials indicate the procurement division is still having difficulty securing enough 1-ounce .999 fine silver planchets for 2023 production.
Might there be a possibility of a cancellation of the 2023 offerings, if enough planchets can not be procured? Or might the Mint go ahead and produce what they can, to meet demand, and thus Mike will have another unique story about the Mint to talk about (The great 2023 planchet shortage and how very special and valuable these limited releases are).
The 2022 ASE's were non sellouts thru enrollments. How will the 2023 Morgan & Peace Dollars hold up?
Follow this thread for the latest news and developments.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Well now
This here looks familiar. But rentals can be like that.
Me and the boys will set up over here in the corner and look for some new fun and amusing pics to post.
Hopefully you got a good deal on the rent and we’re able to get a month to month lease. 😉🦫🙀
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Well now
This here looks familiar. But rentals can be like that.
Me and the boys will set up over here in the corner and look for some new fun and amusing pics to post.
Hopefully you got a good deal on the rent and we’re able to get a month to month lease. 😉🦫🙀
Hattrick has moved from the 2022 proof ase thread to this here new fangled thread for 2023 Morgan’s and Peace Dollar.
I was pretending that he rented a used space as this is a current thread he’s converting into the new one.
I enjoy posting with him and many others so I pretended to rent a “corner”, to set up my “table of pontification “. 😉🦫🙀
I also enjoy posting the occasional cat cartoon. Thanks 😁
@HATTRICK said:
At this time it is likely that most enrollments are collectors that want them for their collections. As we have seen with the ASEs nothing is selling out do the bulk buyers getting the 40 coin trays without going to the resell market making flipping DOA. Also the mint could decide to offer 40 coin trays of these to the bulk purchasers which would make them DOA for flipping
True, but the 2022 ASEs do not have mintage limits, and these do. The mint can surely do 40 coin trays, but, unless they change what they have published, they cannot sell coins outside the limits they already announced.
It seems as though the mintages are just too high, given how many different ones they are producing, and how expensive they are relative to intrinsic value, to attract much interest beyond true collectors. That's what's going to make these DOA for flipping, as opposed to trays maybe being available to bulk buyers.
Which is a little ironic, since these mintages are probably lower than those that produced sellouts for the ASEs, after taking the trays sold outside the product limits into account!
Mintage will be further limited by the number of planchets the mint is able to procure. Keep in mind these are commercial sources that likely have more profitable avenues to sell their silver.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” - Satoshi Nakamoto
Not particularly interested in any of these. However, I enrolled for one of each of them. This way, I can make my decision when the time comes. I can cancel my enrollment if I decide I don't want a particular issue.
@CoinHoarder said:
Not particularly interested in any of these. However, I enrolled for one of each of them. This way, I can make my decision when the time comes. I can cancel my enrollment if I decide I don't want a particular issue.
I do like these coins and was very excited when they came out last year. I am also enrolled for each one. I will be excited to see the proof versions and two-coin set next year. Unless there are unique issues like this every year, I'm sure a lot of us will get tired of them if they're issued every year.
I too have subscribed for one of each offer. There is plenty of time to firm my decision to cancel, increase or keep my subscription at one each. Likely I will obtain one each as I think these will be a nice addition to my collection.
However, should the mint continue to produce these coins annually without any low mintages, unique finishes or a combination thereof, collector’s interest may begin to fade.
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
There will be plenty 70s in all varieties of these available from many dealers at reasonable prices as they now have access to all they need without buying on the secondary raw coin market. Price competition will be aggressive as many will rush to unload their stock.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
I’m feeling any proof from the mint ase or commemorative or otherwise has the potential to spot. When is the question. Perhaps not at all. 😉🦫🙀
I’ve got several examples of early on ( arrived from the mint, spotted) too a couple years down the road. And, ofcourse, many that appear fine. Have stopped buying slabbed 70’s. Can’t handle the value going from top tier to melt. I’ll take a 69 anymore 😁
@HATTRICK said:
The 2022 ASE's were non sellouts thru enrollments. How will the 2023 Morgan & Peace Dollars hold up?
Follow this thread for the latest news and developments.
From checking the availableCount, about 110-120k of each have been reserved so far.
I'm getting the reverse proof set. Saw this on a youtube video and it looks like Fiji has stolen the design but gives a nice sneak peek at what it will look like. (don't want to advertise for them, but you can google for "2022 reverse proof morgan")
@HATTRICK said:
The 2022 ASE's were non sellouts thru enrollments. How will the 2023 Morgan & Peace Dollars hold up?
Follow this thread for the latest news and developments.
From checking the availableCount, about 110-120k of each have been reserved so far.
I'm getting the reverse proof set. Saw this on a youtube video and it looks like Fiji has stolen the design but gives a nice sneak peek at what it will look like. (don't want to advertise for them, but you can google for "2022 reverse proof morgan")
These coins look absolutely magnificent! Can't wait till the U.S. coins are released.
@7Jaguars said:
I wouldn't hold my breath on actual mintages being much lower than the max figures put out there already.
Agreed, not buying planchet shortage.
While a shortage may appear in the future, the mint would not advertise mintages that it cannot support with its current planchet inventory. Unless of course it set mintages based on promised planchets.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” - Satoshi Nakamoto
Comments
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I believe the mint has learned to close enrollments before they wipe out the inventory in an effort to have some available on day of sale. Note the drastically reduced limits with the enrollments.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” - Satoshi Nakamoto
I think the intention here is to give more collectors a much longer opportunity to get their orders in for these and avoid the secondary market.
I hope you're right but I think your giving them to much credit.
We'll see
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
You are very welcome. I have learned much from this forum and am very happy to provide any useful information when I can.
P.S. And sometimes I like to throw a little gas on the fire.
By the time these start hitting the credit card statement & shipping out...I'll have completely forgotten about them I'm afraid!
I hope someone keeps bumping this thread in the future to remind me that I "may" have ordered something! :-)
BST references available on request
Guarantee we keep this puppy going. Too much opportunity for speculating and pondering the ways of the “US Mint “. 😉🙀🦫
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I will keep everyone updated with the latest developments on this series unless I am partying with this crew
Yes, and I really appreciate the Mint doing this. It has solved many problems I had in the past. For the 2021 Morgan and Peace dollars, I missed out on all of them because I just could not break through the crowds on release day before they sold out. So, I ended up getting them all from a dealer, and I was glad to be able to do that (all PCGS MS70).
a bump for anyone who might have missed this. The enrollment process is the best and easiest way to guarantee you get your coins.
This excerpt from an article in coinworld.com would seem to indicate that they aren't running out of these anytime soon.
That also reminds me of this Seinfeld classic:
The 2023 Morgan and Peace dollar product options, with the maximum number of coins available, number of enrollments placed as of July 27, rounded off, and number of coins those enrollments reflect, rounded off, are:
ä Uncirculated 2023 Morgan dollar, 275,000 coins maximum, struck without P Mint mark at Philadelphia Mint; 21,000 enrollments reflecting 42,000 coins.
ä Uncirculated 2023 Peace dollar, 275,000, struck without P Mint mark at Philadelphia Mint; 25,000 enrollments, reflecting almost 50,000 coins.
ä Proof 2023-S Morgan dollar, 400,000 coins, San Francisco Mint; 25,000 enrollments, reflecting nearly 50,000 coins.
ä Proof 2023-S Peace dollar, 400,000 coins, San Francisco Mint; 24,000 enrollments, reflecting nearly 48,000 coins.
ä Reverse Proof 2023-S Morgan and Peace dollar two-coin set, 250,000 sets; 25,000 enrollments reflecting approximately 50,000 sets.
At this time it is likely that most enrollments are collectors that want them for their collections. As we have seen with the ASEs nothing is selling out do the bulk buyers getting the 40 coin trays without going to the resell market making flipping DOA. Also the mint could decide to offer 40 coin trays of these to the bulk purchasers which would make them DOA for flipping
I have 2 enrollments each for proof Morgan's and the reverse 2 coin set only.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Thanks for sharing this information.
If anyone is interested, here is a link to the full article.
An interesting blurb that I noted from within the coinworld article:
While the above comment might produce valuable marketing data - I do not honestly believe that US Gov't workers, employed by the US Mint, would know how to properly capitalize on that data as someone in the real marketing world would know how to do.
Another blurb of note:
Might there be a possibility of a cancellation of the 2023 offerings, if enough planchets can not be procured? Or might the Mint go ahead and produce what they can, to meet demand, and thus Mike will have another unique story about the Mint to talk about (The great 2023 planchet shortage and how very special and valuable these limited releases are).
BST references available on request
@HoneyMarket I noticed that too. Could 2023 Morgan's turn into another 2019 ase reverse or 1995-w ase ultra low mintage?
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Ask the cats with the OUIJA board. They can give you a guess as well as anyone and remember that "Box of Chocolates" thing.
Rather odd comment from the Mint as the Morgan/Peace silver dollars are not 1 oz, rather about .859 ounce of silver.
@HATTRICK yeah I meant that more rhetorically as obviously no one knows the future... Not even the US mint. 😁👍
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Maybe the author "rounded up" as he did with the numbers...
BST references available on request
Will they or won't they ? "Only their hairdressers know for sure"
2023 will be another rollercoaster ride for U S Mint releases.
Did you call? 😉🙀🦫
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
The 2022 ASE's were non sellouts thru enrollments. How will the 2023 Morgan & Peace Dollars hold up?
Follow this thread for the latest news and developments.
Well now
This here looks familiar. But rentals can be like that.
Me and the boys will set up over here in the corner and look for some new fun and amusing pics to post.
Hopefully you got a good deal on the rent and we’re able to get a month to month lease. 😉🦫🙀
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Que????
Hattrick has moved from the 2022 proof ase thread to this here new fangled thread for 2023 Morgan’s and Peace Dollar.
I was pretending that he rented a used space as this is a current thread he’s converting into the new one.
I enjoy posting with him and many others so I pretended to rent a “corner”, to set up my “table of pontification “. 😉🦫🙀
I also enjoy posting the occasional cat cartoon. Thanks 😁
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
The Mint just sent out (today) email reminders that enrollments for the 2023 Moran & Proof dollars are available.
I'll get the first year proofs only and be done. Enrolled today and will cancel after order is in hand.
I might get the proof version. I think the business strikes are over rated and make the 100 university coins shrink in significance.
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
wrong thread
I will buy the proofs for sure. I am addicted to shiny silver coins.
True, but the 2022 ASEs do not have mintage limits, and these do. The mint can surely do 40 coin trays, but, unless they change what they have published, they cannot sell coins outside the limits they already announced.
It seems as though the mintages are just too high, given how many different ones they are producing, and how expensive they are relative to intrinsic value, to attract much interest beyond true collectors. That's what's going to make these DOA for flipping, as opposed to trays maybe being available to bulk buyers.
Which is a little ironic, since these mintages are probably lower than those that produced sellouts for the ASEs, after taking the trays sold outside the product limits into account!
Mintage will be further limited by the number of planchets the mint is able to procure. Keep in mind these are commercial sources that likely have more profitable avenues to sell their silver.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” - Satoshi Nakamoto
I wouldn't hold my breath on actual mintages being much lower than the max figures put out there already.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Agreed, not buying planchet shortage.
Add to that the uncertainty on the finished product.
Curious how they pull off the Peace proof without it looking like an ebay silver round.
Or perhaps I am just tired and grumpy right now.
Not particularly interested in any of these. However, I enrolled for one of each of them. This way, I can make my decision when the time comes. I can cancel my enrollment if I decide I don't want a particular issue.
I do like these coins and was very excited when they came out last year. I am also enrolled for each one. I will be excited to see the proof versions and two-coin set next year. Unless there are unique issues like this every year, I'm sure a lot of us will get tired of them if they're issued every year.
I too have subscribed for one of each offer. There is plenty of time to firm my decision to cancel, increase or keep my subscription at one each. Likely I will obtain one each as I think these will be a nice addition to my collection.
However, should the mint continue to produce these coins annually without any low mintages, unique finishes or a combination thereof, collector’s interest may begin to fade.
https://lcrcoin.com/2023-morgan-peace-dollar-proof-70-6-pc-complete-set/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqZXv1NPs-QIVr8mUCR2aeA0zEAQYASABEgLuifD_BwE
I was wondering how long it would take before we started seeing the secondary market get in on the action...
Ok Guess I will enroll. Got one of each. Probably will not be good resale value. Just want for my collection.
Box of 20
There will be plenty 70s in all varieties of these available from many dealers at reasonable prices as they now have access to all they need without buying on the secondary raw coin market. Price competition will be aggressive as many will rush to unload their stock.
I wonder if these spot like ASEs.
Box of 20
If not enough planchets the subscriptions will be cancelled.
Box of 20
I’m feeling any proof from the mint ase or commemorative or otherwise has the potential to spot. When is the question. Perhaps not at all. 😉🦫🙀
I’ve got several examples of early on ( arrived from the mint, spotted) too a couple years down the road. And, ofcourse, many that appear fine. Have stopped buying slabbed 70’s. Can’t handle the value going from top tier to melt. I’ll take a 69 anymore 😁
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Yes. I will not buy 70 ASEs anymore because of spotting.
Box of 20
From checking the availableCount, about 110-120k of each have been reserved so far.
I'm getting the reverse proof set. Saw this on a youtube video and it looks like Fiji has stolen the design but gives a nice sneak peek at what it will look like. (don't want to advertise for them, but you can google for "2022 reverse proof morgan")
These coins look absolutely magnificent! Can't wait till the U.S. coins are released.
The coins in the picture don’t look right, to me. Something awkward about them. 😉🦫🙀
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
While a shortage may appear in the future, the mint would not advertise mintages that it cannot support with its current planchet inventory. Unless of course it set mintages based on promised planchets.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” - Satoshi Nakamoto