@coiner said:
» show previous quotes
Just like the 2021 Morgans and Peace.....early heavy skewing to 70s. Why? Because the big guys submit with a minimum grade request of 70. Anything less than 70 is not graded and sent back.
Minimum grade request of “70” is not allowed per PCGS guidelines for submissions.
However, as stated before, the early bird gets the worm. 70’s flow freely early on; then the faucet slowly turns off.
Minimum grade requested cannot be MS/PR70; minimum-70 Bulk Submissions will not be accepted.
I am thinking that PCGS might have different rules for different customers. If so, this would allow for select 'early/large' customers to submit with a min. 70 specification.
Anything is possible. That said, I find it curious, even with pre-screening, that there are ZERO 69 grades among the "advance release" entries.
Minimum grade request of 70 is not allowed per PCGS guidelines of submission.
This is clearly noted in their guidelines.
Clearly the initial coins are grading very well.
Can there be a tightening of grading standard after the initial submissions? Sure. Absolutely.
@Goldbully said:
I'm looking ahead to the proof editions.
Mintage Limit: 400,000
HHL: 25
Think they will all sell out like the uncs?....400k is a lot.
What are you buying?
Will there be a Director's Strike signed COA?
Just thinking out loud.
1) There are about 304K to 324K Morgan proof subscriptions and about 293K to 313K Peace proof subscriptions at the moment. There is some evidence that the ABPP pulled only about 20K of each. So, while there will be more available on release day (versus the uncs) (eg, about 56K Morgan proofs and 66K Peace proofs), I think that they will sell out on day one...just not as fast at the uncs (44 minutes for the Morgan unc, and 1h04m for the Peac unc).
2) I'm subscribed for 2 Morgan proofs and 4 Peace proofs
3) I doubt that there will be a Director's Strike COA....but based on the excitement generated, the mint should have done that, or consider doing it in the future.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@coiner said:
» show previous quotes
Just like the 2021 Morgans and Peace.....early heavy skewing to 70s. Why? Because the big guys submit with a minimum grade request of 70. Anything less than 70 is not graded and sent back.
Minimum grade request of “70” is not allowed per PCGS guidelines for submissions.
However, as stated before, the early bird gets the worm. 70’s flow freely early on; then the faucet slowly turns off.
Minimum grade requested cannot be MS/PR70; minimum-70 Bulk Submissions will not be accepted.
I am thinking that PCGS might have different rules for different customers. If so, this would allow for select 'early/large' customers to submit with a min. 70 specification.
Anything is possible. That said, I find it curious, even with pre-screening, that there are ZERO 69 grades among the "advance release" entries.
Minimum grade request of 70 is not allowed per PCGS guidelines of submission.
This is clearly noted in their guidelines.
Clearly the initial coins are grading very well.
Can there be a tightening of grading standard after the initial submissions? Sure. Absolutely.
Sorry, but I disagree. For regular grading, especially for the fancy variety labels that are all 70's, you can select ANY minimum grade you want including 70. The coins below that grade will not be slabbed, so they will not have certificates and will not show up in the population reports. You will pay for all the coins graded, including those that did not get 70.
This is clearly stated on the back of the grading forms. You are reading about bulk submissions, not regular grading submissions. Please don't confuse people thinking anyone can look at raw coins and get 500 of 500 70's.
I guess Goldminers didnt read the Bulk Submission Guidlines: #4 in BOLD
PCGS is proud to offer Bulk Submissions to active Collectors Club members. The PCGS Bulk Submission program provides a low-cost way to have larger quantities of inexpensive coins graded and encapsulated. If you meet the below requirements, you may submit your coins as a Bulk Submission at the current published bulk grading rate for Collectors Club members.
Submission Requirements:
All coins must be properly submitted on PCGS submission forms. All submission forms must be signed.
Each submission must contain a minimum of one hundred (100) coins, with a maximum of five (5) different dates, mint marks, denominations, or varieties – no more than five (5) different PCGS coin numbers per submission form.
Maximum declared coin value of $300/coin. (Please send 1 oz and 1/2 oz American Gold Eagles, American Gold Buffaloes, and American Platinum Eagles through the appropriate Standard line service, as these coins have a higher declared value than $300 based on precious metal melt value).
You may indicate one (1) minimum grade on your submission form. PCGS will holder any coins that meet or exceed the requested minimum grade. No minimum MS70 or PR70 submissions will be accepted. If you will accept any grade, please indicate that on the submission form. If no minimum is requested, all coins will be graded.
Current pricing: If the coins submitted meet or exceed the minimum grade, each holdered coin will be charged $14. The coins that do not meet your minimum grade will be returned to you unholdered with a $2 reject fee per coin.
All coins will be holdered with our standard blue inserts. First Strike labels will be available upon request on coins that meet our requirements, cut-off dates, etc. for an additional $18 per coin.
All coins must be submitted in tubes or original mint packaging. NO loose coins or mylar flips will be accepted.
Please be advised that terms and/or pricing may be changed by PCGS at any time with seven (7) days’ general notice on the PCGS website.
@coiner said:
» show previous quotes
Just like the 2021 Morgans and Peace.....early heavy skewing to 70s. Why? Because the big guys submit with a minimum grade request of 70. Anything less than 70 is not graded and sent back.
Minimum grade request of “70” is not allowed per PCGS guidelines for submissions.
However, as stated before, the early bird gets the worm. 70’s flow freely early on; then the faucet slowly turns off.
Minimum grade requested cannot be MS/PR70; minimum-70 Bulk Submissions will not be accepted.
I am thinking that PCGS might have different rules for different customers. If so, this would allow for select 'early/large' customers to submit with a min. 70 specification.
Anything is possible. That said, I find it curious, even with pre-screening, that there are ZERO 69 grades among the "advance release" entries.
Minimum grade request of 70 is not allowed per PCGS guidelines of submission.
This is clearly noted in their guidelines.
Clearly the initial coins are grading very well.
Can there be a tightening of grading standard after the initial submissions? Sure. Absolutely.
Sorry, but I disagree. For regular grading, especially for the fancy variety labels that are all 70's, you can select ANY minimum grade you want including 70. The coins below that grade will not be slabbed, so they will not have certificates and will not show up in the population reports. You will pay for all the coins graded, including those that did not get 70.
This is clearly stated on the back of the grading forms. You are reading about bulk submissions, not regular grading submissions. Please don't confuse people thinking anyone can look at raw coins and get 500 of 500 70's.
See my last post. Clearly not able to specify 70 on any Bulk Submission.
@coiner said:
Dealers are not submitting these coins one by one. They are going BULK.
How do you know? I submit many coins this way because I only collect modern 70's, and yes, I screen them, and so do the dealers above who got all 70's with special labels. They can send in as many as they want. None of them send them in one by one. The profit of special labels and their special arrangements for discounted grading make regular or economy grading submissions profitable.
It is much easier to get the 69's back raw and resell them in mint packaging, than to crack out rejects from slabs. Many coins you see raw have been graded by PCGS this way and are 69's or worse.
You can believe what you want, but mint quality is not 100% 70 ever, and no one can look at 500 coins and get all 70's back even screening them.
Since all of my Peace $ collection is in ANACS holders, I emailed them about the Director's Strike COA:
Me:
I am inquiring whether you would add "Director's Strike X of 200" if a) there was a director's strike COA card and coin box present, and b) I shipped my unopened box of four Peace dollars from the mint directly to you?
Them:
Thank you for reaching out to ANACS customer services, I spoke with the grading team they advised this is not something ANACS would list on the label.
.
I guess that I'll open my mint box now....
....and no Director's Strike COA.
Play on.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@coiner said:
I guess Goldminers didnt read the Bulk Submission Guidlines: #4 in BOLD
PCGS is proud to offer Bulk Submissions to active Collectors Club members. The PCGS Bulk Submission program provides a low-cost way to have larger quantities of inexpensive coins graded and encapsulated. If you meet the below requirements, you may submit your coins as a Bulk Submission at the current published bulk grading rate for Collectors Club members.
Submission Requirements:
All coins must be properly submitted on PCGS submission forms. All submission forms must be signed.
Each submission must contain a minimum of one hundred (100) coins, with a maximum of five (5) different dates, mint marks, denominations, or varieties – no more than five (5) different PCGS coin numbers per submission form.
Maximum declared coin value of $300/coin. (Please send 1 oz and 1/2 oz American Gold Eagles, American Gold Buffaloes, and American Platinum Eagles through the appropriate Standard line service, as these coins have a higher declared value than $300 based on precious metal melt value).
You may indicate one (1) minimum grade on your submission form. PCGS will holder any coins that meet or exceed the requested minimum grade. No minimum MS70 or PR70 submissions will be accepted. If you will accept any grade, please indicate that on the submission form. If no minimum is requested, all coins will be graded.
Current pricing: If the coins submitted meet or exceed the minimum grade, each holdered coin will be charged $14. The coins that do not meet your minimum grade will be returned to you unholdered with a $2 reject fee per coin.
All coins will be holdered with our standard blue inserts. First Strike labels will be available upon request on coins that meet our requirements, cut-off dates, etc. for an additional $18 per coin.
All coins must be submitted in tubes or original mint packaging. NO loose coins or mylar flips will be accepted.
Please be advised that terms and/or pricing may be changed by PCGS at any time with seven (7) days’ general notice on the PCGS website.
You are focusing on the bulk program for authorized dealers and CC members. Link
Note that this program includes a provision for the "First Strike" designation. It does not, however, say anything about "First Day of Issue", or "Advanced Release' designations.
This discussion is primarily centered around "FDOI" and "AR" designations. Again, the subject bulk program contains no provisions for these designations. Isn't it possible that another program exists? Specifically, one that we 'little guys' do not have ready access to, that covers "FDOI" and "AR". And, that has its own terms (i.e., minimum grade options).
@coiner said:
Dealers are not submitting these coins one by one. They are going BULK.
How do you know? I submit many coins this way because I only collect modern 70's, and yes, I screen them, and so do the dealers above who got all 70's with special labels. They can send in as many as they want. None of them send them in one by one. The profit of special labels and their special arrangements for discounted grading make regular or economy grading submissions profitable.
It is much easier to get the 69's back raw and resell them in mint packaging, than to crack out rejects from slabs. Many coins you see raw have been graded by PCGS this way and are 69's or worse.
You can believe what you want, but mint quality is not 100% 70 ever, and no one can look at 500 coins and get all 70's back even screening them.
My thoughts are “what prevents folks who worked for ngc or pcgs as graders and now don’t from offering their services to the big guys. Even better what’s to prevent the big guys from putting a couple graders in the company?” Just thinking 🤔
And some them big guys have good eyes 👀 as well as their associates.
My thoughts are “what prevents folks who worked for ngc or pcgs as graders and now don’t from offering their services to the big guys. Even better what’s to prevent the big guys from putting a couple graders in the company?” Just thinking 🤔
And some them big guys have good eyes 👀 as well as their associates.
Nothing. It actually makes good business sense if you are a large enough player to do so. Save on shipping out non-70s to the tpg.
@coiner said:
Dealers are not submitting these coins one by one. They are going BULK.
How do you know? I submit many coins this way because I only collect modern 70's, and yes, I screen them, and so do the dealers above who got all 70's with special labels. They can send in as many as they want. None of them send them in one by one. The profit of special labels and their special arrangements for discounted grading make regular or economy grading submissions profitable.
It is much easier to get the 69's back raw and resell them in mint packaging, than to crack out rejects from slabs. Many coins you see raw have been graded by PCGS this way and are 69's or worse.
You can believe what you want, but mint quality is not 100% 70 ever, and no one can look at 500 coins and get all 70's back even screening them.
My thoughts are “what prevents folks who worked for ngc or pcgs as graders and now don’t from offering their services to the big guys. Even better what’s to prevent the big guys from putting a couple graders in the company?” Just thinking 🤔
And some them big guys have good eyes 👀 as well as their associates.
x
Here are new pops with 2,500 new Morgan coins, all 70's, if you ignore the first strike submissions. These are coins submitted by special dealers, most with only their special labels that the public can't even get, and advance coins with other special arrangements. Why can't people see the obvious?
Don't you think one 69 would slip by even the best of graders if these were not set at minimum grades of 70? LOL
@Jzyskowski1 said:
HSN musta gotta the leftovers. Wasn’t it reported here on the forum that they only got 40% 70’s from the peace dollar? They wouldn’t fib, would they? 🤨
It’s shocking!!
They may not pre-screen them while the others have.
And they also might be full of poop. Based on the high cost of TV time, and their overall pattern of simply being VERY expensive, there is no way on earth they'd be selling 70s at only $300 if they were only receiving a 40% hit rate. Period.
Mike's audience is very unsophisticated, and untruths come out of his mouth on every show. There is no way he, with his volume, is not receiving 70s at the same rate everyone else is. Don't try to rationalize it, because I'm telling you, it's just not true, based on nothing other than his selling price, let alone his history.
And by the way, no one is pre-screening at those volumes. The TPGs are pre-screening for them by allowing them to specify a minimum grade of 70. All the large submitters do it, and it is the reason individuals don't get the same results on their submissions.
@coiner said:
» show previous quotes
Just like the 2021 Morgans and Peace.....early heavy skewing to 70s. Why? Because the big guys submit with a minimum grade request of 70. Anything less than 70 is not graded and sent back.
Minimum grade request of “70” is not allowed per PCGS guidelines for submissions.
However, as stated before, the early bird gets the worm. 70’s flow freely early on; then the faucet slowly turns off.
Minimum grade requested cannot be MS/PR70; minimum-70 Bulk Submissions will not be accepted.
I am thinking that PCGS might have different rules for different customers. If so, this would allow for select 'early/large' customers to submit with a min. 70 specification.
Anything is possible. That said, I find it curious, even with pre-screening, that there are ZERO 69 grades among the "advance release" entries.
Minimum grade request of 70 is not allowed per PCGS guidelines of submission.
This is clearly noted in their guidelines.
Clearly the initial coins are grading very well.
Can there be a tightening of grading standard after the initial submissions? Sure. Absolutely.
That applies to you and me. I am 99.99% sure different rules apply to bulk submitters. If I'm wrong, ask them what you have to do to get a FDOI label, or a custom one you design yourself.
Minimum grade requested cannot be MS/PR70; minimum-70 Bulk Submissions will not be accepted.
I REALLY don't want to argue, but the pop reports suggest that is simply not the case. If it was true, that would suggest some early submitters get preferential treatment in grading, without regard to the quality of the coins, which I cannot bring myself to believe.
In terms of "early birds" and "worms," there is no way the distribution center has any idea which coins are struck first, so the earliest submissions could actually be the last coins struck off any particular die. As a result, there should be no correlation between when coins are ordered, shipped, received, sent in for grading, and actual quality.
@coiner said:
Remember the submitter can pre screen their coins for submission.
Thinking that these are blind submission is a bad assumption.
Respectfully disagree. Given the speed at which they were sent to the TPGs and returned, and the volumes involved, it is HIGHLY unlikely submitters are taking the time to open every box to pre-screen. It's also simply not believable that they would be so talented that more than a few 69s would not slip through, even if they were actually doing that.
Big submitters KNEW they'd be getting a high 70 hit rate when they put them on presale at $150 weeks ago. How? I can only speculate, but my theory is that they receive them early with the caveat that they not be released to the public until after the official on sale date.
I'm betting the TPGs have been grading these for the Big Boys for weeks now, WITH a 70 minimum, and with the understanding, based on what they saw from early samples, that only a very small percentage of their submissions would end up being returned ungraded. That's the only way so many slabbed 70s could possibly be out in the wild right now, when most of us will be lucky to get our 69s sometime in the next two months.
i have a question about opening up sealed boxes , so if after i open my morgan and or peace dollar boxes will i still be able to submit for grading with the first strike label? or do they need to be sealed? also do you need to advise for the COA if found? im so lost on all this Thanks in advance for any help!
@Glen2022 said:
Mintage is 275,000 for both. How long does it take the mint to produce these and get them ready to ship in the capsules, boxes, etc? One minted, boxed etc., the mint must store them, and ship them to the distribution centers. Does the mint do anything to ensure that the first coins minted are the first coins shipped to purchasers, or are the coins/boxes mixed together without concern for the order minted? I am guessing the there is no correlation between those produced first and those shipped first. I think It would seem to be a monumental and costly effort to keep track of this (but not impossible) to ensure the first coins minted are shipped first to purchasers.
So if this speculation is accurate, assuming equal grades (for example MS70) is there any real difference between coins that wind up in slabs labeled FDOI, Early Release, First Strike or any other similar label designation.
Is there anyone who has worked at the mint that can and will accurately answer this question?
@coiner said:
» show previous quotes
Just like the 2021 Morgans and Peace.....early heavy skewing to 70s. Why? Because the big guys submit with a minimum grade request of 70. Anything less than 70 is not graded and sent back.
Minimum grade request of “70” is not allowed per PCGS guidelines for submissions.
However, as stated before, the early bird gets the worm. 70’s flow freely early on; then the faucet slowly turns off.
Minimum grade requested cannot be MS/PR70; minimum-70 Bulk Submissions will not be accepted.
I am thinking that PCGS might have different rules for different customers. If so, this would allow for select 'early/large' customers to submit with a min. 70 specification.
Anything is possible. That said, I find it curious, even with pre-screening, that there are ZERO 69 grades among the "advance release" entries.
Minimum grade request of 70 is not allowed per PCGS guidelines of submission.
This is clearly noted in their guidelines.
Clearly the initial coins are grading very well.
Can there be a tightening of grading standard after the initial submissions? Sure. Absolutely.
Again, this is not true for bulk submitters. They can designate as such.
@coiner said:
» show previous quotes
Just like the 2021 Morgans and Peace.....early heavy skewing to 70s. Why? Because the big guys submit with a minimum grade request of 70. Anything less than 70 is not graded and sent back.
Minimum grade request of “70” is not allowed per PCGS guidelines for submissions.
However, as stated before, the early bird gets the worm. 70’s flow freely early on; then the faucet slowly turns off.
Minimum grade requested cannot be MS/PR70; minimum-70 Bulk Submissions will not be accepted.
I am thinking that PCGS might have different rules for different customers. If so, this would allow for select 'early/large' customers to submit with a min. 70 specification.
Anything is possible. That said, I find it curious, even with pre-screening, that there are ZERO 69 grades among the "advance release" entries.
Minimum grade request of 70 is not allowed per PCGS guidelines of submission.
This is clearly noted in their guidelines.
Clearly the initial coins are grading very well.
Can there be a tightening of grading standard after the initial submissions? Sure. Absolutely.
Sorry, but I disagree. For regular grading, especially for the fancy variety labels that are all 70's, you can select ANY minimum grade you want including 70. The coins below that grade will not be slabbed, so they will not have certificates and will not show up in the population reports. You will pay for all the coins graded, including those that did not get 70.
This is clearly stated on the back of the grading forms. You are reading about bulk submissions, not regular grading submissions. Please don't confuse people thinking anyone can look at raw coins and get 500 of 500 70's.
See my last post. Clearly not able to specify 70 on any Bulk Submission.
How many times do I have to say it? those are not the submission guidelines for the BIg Boys. They don't publish those. They pay $10 or less per coin with a small fee for non-70s.
I don't want to call out the bulk submitters on this forum because PCGS is very coy with the terms of that program. But I once bought a 1000 coin submission from one of them that they shipped directly to me. It was proof and SMS sets as well as some silver IKES from 1960 to the mid 1970s. The cost to me, including the coins and submission was $12 per PCGS slab. How do you think that was profitable for the submitter at the posted $16 bulk submission rate? [That's a rhetorical question. ]
@roob47 said:
i have a question about opening up sealed boxes , so if after i open my morgan and or peace dollar boxes will i still be able to submit for grading with the first strike label? or do they need to be sealed? also do you need to advise for the COA if found? im so lost on all this Thanks in advance for any help!
As long as you submit before the deadline, they can be opened.
@Jzyskowski1 said:
HSN musta gotta the leftovers. Wasn’t it reported here on the forum that they only got 40% 70’s from the peace dollar? They wouldn’t fib, would they? 🤨
It’s shocking!!
They may not pre-screen them while the others have.
And they also might be full of poop. Based on the high cost of TV time, and their overall pattern of simply being VERY expensive, there is no way on earth they'd be selling 70s at only $300 if they were only receiving a 40% hit rate. Period.
Mike's audience is very unsophisticated, and untruths come out of his mouth on every show. There is no way he, with his volume, is not receiving 70s at the same rate everyone else is. Don't try to rationalize it, because I'm telling you, it's just not true, based on nothing other than his selling price, let alone his history.
And by the way, no one is pre-screening at those volumes. The TPGs are pre-screening for them by allowing them to specify a minimum grade of 70. All the large submitters do it, and it is the reason individuals don't get the same results on their submissions.
Must you argue even when we agree.
A 40% 70s rate could correspond to 100% 70s in slabs if the other 60% are simply returned in OGP. Ir they could be slabbed as 69s because they sell them either way if they don't bother tob designate 70s only. I'm simply not sure why the op thinks HSN must be lying about the rate. . The pop numbers have never accurately reflected the actual production quality due to everything from orescreening to minimum grade designations.
@roob47 said:
i have a question about opening up sealed boxes , so if after i open my morgan and or peace dollar boxes will i still be able to submit for grading with the first strike label? or do they need to be sealed? also do you need to advise for the COA if found? im so lost on all this Thanks in advance for any help!
Fair question....someone, I think in this thread yesterday or today, posted the date cutoffs. Think "30 days after they are first released". So, even if opened, if they are submitted (not received, but the postal stamp is marked by the last day), then you are good.
For the COA, yes, you would want to ask for return of original materials, but......it would be best to encapsulate (send unopened) if you are concerned about making having the "x of 200" signed ones.
In the past, they originally returned YOUR original packaging, then, I think they changed it to "you will received 'some of the same packaging' but it may not be originally yours". I believe that's how it was some years ago, not sure of recently.
New day, new Pops.
98% MS70 for Morgan $1......478 more graded since yesterday.
96.8% MS70 for Peace $1......545 more graded since yesterday.
MS69's unchanged since yesterday's report..
Conclusion, bulk guys got game.
Lots of "air" had to be let out I see. Everyone has an opinion.
You clearly see the guidelines. No minimum grade requests at 70.
It isn't my first rodeo, I've heard "stories" as well. All are hearsay unless someone can produce the guidelines written in black and white for all to see.
@coiner said:
Lots of "air" had to be let out I see. Everyone has an opinion.
You clearly see the guidelines. No minimum grade requests at 70.
It isn't my first rodeo, I've heard "stories" as well. All are hearsay unless someone can produce the guidelines written in black and white for all to see.
I hope that you do not mind another response from one of the gasbags.
So it's "opinion/hearsay" unless it is in "black and white for all to see". OK. Post a screenshot from the subject 'bulk agreement' that includes the words 'First Day of Issue' and 'Advanced Release'. That will be definitive proof that the agreement is applicable to the situation being discussed.
@coiner said:
Lots of "air" had to be let out I see. Everyone has an opinion.
You clearly see the guidelines. No minimum grade requests at 70.
It isn't my first rodeo, I've heard "stories" as well. All are hearsay unless someone can produce the guidelines written in black and white for all to see.
Just ask the bulk guys. It's not a rumor. PCGS is very coy about it and doesn't publish it publicly, nor will they probably ever. I personally know 3 people who qualify. 2 of them are on this forum. I won't publicly call them out because it is a sensitive subject but I'm pretty sure you all know who one of them is.
So you think that conservative PCGS just blessed 98% of the dollars as perfect? That makes much more sense.
There are currently 1,686 PCGS authorized dealers. It can take several months to be approved. Dealers have to abide by strict rules, and likely non-disclosure of certain aspects of their dealer costs and benefits. As others have stated you will not see the dealer rates or rules, unless you are an authorized dealer.
Requirements for Becoming a PCGS Authorized Dealer
Applicant must have been a full-time coin dealer for at least three years.
Applicant and key employees must not have been convicted of a felony in the past five years.
Applicant must have capitalization of $100,000 or more including inventory.
Minimum of three credit references.
Minimum of three PCGS Authorized Dealer references.
Here is a published list of all of the authorized dealers. You can submit coins for grading through many of them or do it yourself.
Comments
Minimum grade request of 70 is not allowed per PCGS guidelines of submission.
This is clearly noted in their guidelines.
Clearly the initial coins are grading very well.
Can there be a tightening of grading standard after the initial submissions? Sure. Absolutely.
Remember the submitter can pre screen their coins for submission.
Thinking that these are blind submission is a bad assumption.
1) There are about 304K to 324K Morgan proof subscriptions and about 293K to 313K Peace proof subscriptions at the moment. There is some evidence that the ABPP pulled only about 20K of each. So, while there will be more available on release day (versus the uncs) (eg, about 56K Morgan proofs and 66K Peace proofs), I think that they will sell out on day one...just not as fast at the uncs (44 minutes for the Morgan unc, and 1h04m for the Peac unc).
2) I'm subscribed for 2 Morgan proofs and 4 Peace proofs
3) I doubt that there will be a Director's Strike COA....but based on the excitement generated, the mint should have done that, or consider doing it in the future.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
note the bulk subs with sig labels all got 70s. I truely find this impossible
Economic headlines the mainstream media are hiding from you.
Anything is possible with enough $$... Also I doubt they didn't pre screen those submissions.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Sorry, but I disagree. For regular grading, especially for the fancy variety labels that are all 70's, you can select ANY minimum grade you want including 70. The coins below that grade will not be slabbed, so they will not have certificates and will not show up in the population reports. You will pay for all the coins graded, including those that did not get 70.
This is clearly stated on the back of the grading forms. You are reading about bulk submissions, not regular grading submissions. Please don't confuse people thinking anyone can look at raw coins and get 500 of 500 70's.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I could dig a Jerry West at the right price if anyone knows who has it.
Waiting to hear what PCGS finds out about the Golden Tickets from the mint. This will determine the fate of these coins
I got my single subscription Morgan yesterday. Memphis, clear tape, they did not pull the cover off the self adhesive strip to seal the box.
I opened it today - absolutely stunning. I would have paid for a few more had I known they would look like this.
The funny thing is that there was a blue thread in the velvet case (not in the capsule), like the ones that plagued the 2021D Morgans.
Things that might make it possible:
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I guess Goldminers didnt read the Bulk Submission Guidlines: #4 in BOLD
PCGS is proud to offer Bulk Submissions to active Collectors Club members. The PCGS Bulk Submission program provides a low-cost way to have larger quantities of inexpensive coins graded and encapsulated. If you meet the below requirements, you may submit your coins as a Bulk Submission at the current published bulk grading rate for Collectors Club members.
Submission Requirements:
Please be advised that terms and/or pricing may be changed by PCGS at any time with seven (7) days’ general notice on the PCGS website.
See my last post. Clearly not able to specify 70 on any Bulk Submission.
Dealers are not submitting these coins one by one. They are going BULK.
How do you know? I submit many coins this way because I only collect modern 70's, and yes, I screen them, and so do the dealers above who got all 70's with special labels. They can send in as many as they want. None of them send them in one by one. The profit of special labels and their special arrangements for discounted grading make regular or economy grading submissions profitable.
It is much easier to get the 69's back raw and resell them in mint packaging, than to crack out rejects from slabs. Many coins you see raw have been graded by PCGS this way and are 69's or worse.
You can believe what you want, but mint quality is not 100% 70 ever, and no one can look at 500 coins and get all 70's back even screening them.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Since all of my Peace $ collection is in ANACS holders, I emailed them about the Director's Strike COA:
Me:
Them:
.
I guess that I'll open my mint box now....
....and no Director's Strike COA.
Play on.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
You are focusing on the bulk program for authorized dealers and CC members. Link
Note that this program includes a provision for the "First Strike" designation. It does not, however, say anything about "First Day of Issue", or "Advanced Release' designations.
This discussion is primarily centered around "FDOI" and "AR" designations. Again, the subject bulk program contains no provisions for these designations. Isn't it possible that another program exists? Specifically, one that we 'little guys' do not have ready access to, that covers "FDOI" and "AR". And, that has its own terms (i.e., minimum grade options).
Edited for a typo, and for clarity.
My thoughts are “what prevents folks who worked for ngc or pcgs as graders and now don’t from offering their services to the big guys. Even better what’s to prevent the big guys from putting a couple graders in the company?” Just thinking 🤔
And some them big guys have good eyes 👀 as well as their associates.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Nothing. It actually makes good business sense if you are a large enough player to do so. Save on shipping out non-70s to the tpg.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
x
Here are new pops with 2,500 new Morgan coins, all 70's, if you ignore the first strike submissions. These are coins submitted by special dealers, most with only their special labels that the public can't even get, and advance coins with other special arrangements. Why can't people see the obvious?
Don't you think one 69 would slip by even the best of graders if these were not set at minimum grades of 70? LOL
I give up. The truth is in the data.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
So...what happens if there's a director's strike COA discovered in your sealed box...AND YOU DIDN'T REQUEST ORIGINAL PACKAGING BACK?
Are the TPG's calling you up to say that you have a Wonka ticket in the box?
And they also might be full of poop. Based on the high cost of TV time, and their overall pattern of simply being VERY expensive, there is no way on earth they'd be selling 70s at only $300 if they were only receiving a 40% hit rate. Period.
Mike's audience is very unsophisticated, and untruths come out of his mouth on every show. There is no way he, with his volume, is not receiving 70s at the same rate everyone else is. Don't try to rationalize it, because I'm telling you, it's just not true, based on nothing other than his selling price, let alone his history.
And by the way, no one is pre-screening at those volumes. The TPGs are pre-screening for them by allowing them to specify a minimum grade of 70. All the large submitters do it, and it is the reason individuals don't get the same results on their submissions.
That applies to you and me. I am 99.99% sure different rules apply to bulk submitters. If I'm wrong, ask them what you have to do to get a FDOI label, or a custom one you design yourself.
I REALLY don't want to argue, but the pop reports suggest that is simply not the case. If it was true, that would suggest some early submitters get preferential treatment in grading, without regard to the quality of the coins, which I cannot bring myself to believe.
In terms of "early birds" and "worms," there is no way the distribution center has any idea which coins are struck first, so the earliest submissions could actually be the last coins struck off any particular die. As a result, there should be no correlation between when coins are ordered, shipped, received, sent in for grading, and actual quality.
Respectfully disagree. Given the speed at which they were sent to the TPGs and returned, and the volumes involved, it is HIGHLY unlikely submitters are taking the time to open every box to pre-screen. It's also simply not believable that they would be so talented that more than a few 69s would not slip through, even if they were actually doing that.
Big submitters KNEW they'd be getting a high 70 hit rate when they put them on presale at $150 weeks ago. How? I can only speculate, but my theory is that they receive them early with the caveat that they not be released to the public until after the official on sale date.
I'm betting the TPGs have been grading these for the Big Boys for weeks now, WITH a 70 minimum, and with the understanding, based on what they saw from early samples, that only a very small percentage of their submissions would end up being returned ungraded. That's the only way so many slabbed 70s could possibly be out in the wild right now, when most of us will be lucky to get our 69s sometime in the next two months.
So...if the TPG opens a sealed box and finds a "special" COA...do they notify you?
Unlikely...
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
[Unlikely...]
I hope that's not true...there's definite value there.
Oh, I"m sure they'll notify you!
...to let you know, that you may want to send them more money!
BST references available on request
[...and let you know that you need to send them another check!]
"I find your lack of faith...disturbing!"
i have a question about opening up sealed boxes , so if after i open my morgan and or peace dollar boxes will i still be able to submit for grading with the first strike label? or do they need to be sealed? also do you need to advise for the COA if found? im so lost on all this Thanks in advance for any help!
Well
Thanks everyone. Been lovely but looky what I found on eBay just now. Anyone say $89. Holy moly. 🤨
I’ll catch the end in the morning and update. Interesting 🤔
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
They are not shipped in order of strike.
Again, this is not true for bulk submitters. They can designate as such.
How many times do I have to say it? those are not the submission guidelines for the BIg Boys. They don't publish those. They pay $10 or less per coin with a small fee for non-70s.
I don't want to call out the bulk submitters on this forum because PCGS is very coy with the terms of that program. But I once bought a 1000 coin submission from one of them that they shipped directly to me. It was proof and SMS sets as well as some silver IKES from 1960 to the mid 1970s. The cost to me, including the coins and submission was $12 per PCGS slab. How do you think that was profitable for the submitter at the posted $16 bulk submission rate? [That's a rhetorical question. ]
As long as you submit before the deadline, they can be opened.
Must you argue even when we agree.
A 40% 70s rate could correspond to 100% 70s in slabs if the other 60% are simply returned in OGP. Ir they could be slabbed as 69s because they sell them either way if they don't bother tob designate 70s only. I'm simply not sure why the op thinks HSN must be lying about the rate. . The pop numbers have never accurately reflected the actual production quality due to everything from orescreening to minimum grade designations.
Fair question....someone, I think in this thread yesterday or today, posted the date cutoffs. Think "30 days after they are first released". So, even if opened, if they are submitted (not received, but the postal stamp is marked by the last day), then you are good.
For the COA, yes, you would want to ask for return of original materials, but......it would be best to encapsulate (send unopened) if you are concerned about making having the "x of 200" signed ones.
In the past, they originally returned YOUR original packaging, then, I think they changed it to "you will received 'some of the same packaging' but it may not be originally yours". I believe that's how it was some years ago, not sure of recently.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
But do not remove from the capsule, let PCGS do that. less chance of damaging a perfect coin.
Economic headlines the mainstream media are hiding from you.
Didn't see either one flip available this morning.
Successful transactions with forum members commoncents05, dmarks, Coinscratch, Bullsitter, DCW, TwoSides2aCoin, Namvet69 (facilitated for 3rd party), Tetromibi, ProfLizMay, MASSU2, MWallace, Bruce7789, Twobitcollector, 78saen, U1chicago
Nothing this morning. I’d say we are basically done. Thanks 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Yep....crickets. Nuttin' honey...
New day, new Pops.
98% MS70 for Morgan $1......478 more graded since yesterday.
96.8% MS70 for Peace $1......545 more graded since yesterday.
MS69's unchanged since yesterday's report..
Conclusion, bulk guys got game.
So what are your thoughts on a new thread for the proofs? Should we just keep this ole mule a runnin. Thanks buddy 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Lots of "air" had to be let out I see. Everyone has an opinion.
You clearly see the guidelines. No minimum grade requests at 70.
It isn't my first rodeo, I've heard "stories" as well. All are hearsay unless someone can produce the guidelines written in black and white for all to see.
I hope that you do not mind another response from one of the gasbags.
So it's "opinion/hearsay" unless it is in "black and white for all to see". OK. Post a screenshot from the subject 'bulk agreement' that includes the words 'First Day of Issue' and 'Advanced Release'. That will be definitive proof that the agreement is applicable to the situation being discussed.
Just ask the bulk guys. It's not a rumor. PCGS is very coy about it and doesn't publish it publicly, nor will they probably ever. I personally know 3 people who qualify. 2 of them are on this forum. I won't publicly call them out because it is a sensitive subject but I'm pretty sure you all know who one of them is.
So you think that conservative PCGS just blessed 98% of the dollars as perfect? That makes much more sense.
There are currently 1,686 PCGS authorized dealers. It can take several months to be approved. Dealers have to abide by strict rules, and likely non-disclosure of certain aspects of their dealer costs and benefits. As others have stated you will not see the dealer rates or rules, unless you are an authorized dealer.
Requirements for Becoming a PCGS Authorized Dealer
Applicant must have been a full-time coin dealer for at least three years.
Applicant and key employees must not have been convicted of a felony in the past five years.
Applicant must have capitalization of $100,000 or more including inventory.
Minimum of three credit references.
Minimum of three PCGS Authorized Dealer references.
Here is a published list of all of the authorized dealers. You can submit coins for grading through many of them or do it yourself.
https://www.pcgs.com/dealers/results
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I think it'd be worth starting a new thread. This one has branched out enough!
I find it hilarious that people love to argue about what they don't know. If they can't see it themselves it must not be true!
If you have enough money or make enough promises, you too can have an agreement others can't have.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin