USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
This is an example of where toning has gone too far, in my opinion. It’s reached the point of environmental damage.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
This is an example of where toning has gone too far, in my opinion. It’s reached the point of environmental damage.
This is why even CAC coins need to be carefully examined before purchase. I'm surprised that coin straight graded with that close to terminal dark toning.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Broadstruck said:
NGC should have never straight graded that... Reverse is Terminally Toned.
Label should read NGC UNC DETAILS "Environmental Damage".
Agree and CAC loses credibility when they sticker a coin like this.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Why would someone spend their hard earned money:
1. Having a 1923 Peace Dollar slabbed
2. Having it stickered
?
The reason is that someone thought they could make big money selling it into the "toner" market. I wonder how that worked out? Is there a market for Peace Dollars with that kind of a look? Nothing would surprise me in the current coin collecting market.
@291fifth said:
Why would someone spend their hard earned money:
1. Having a 1923 Peace Dollar slabbed
2. Having it stickered
?
The reason is that someone thought they could make big money selling it into the "toner" market. I wonder how that worked out? Is there a market for Peace Dollars with that kind of a look? Nothing would surprise me in the current coin collecting market.
@Broadstruck said:
NGC should have never straight graded that... Reverse is Terminally Toned.
Label should read NGC UNC DETAILS "Environmental Damage".
Do you think CAC should have stickered it?
No... It shouldn't have graded as a problem free coin nor been stickered.
As the problem with this coin is it will end up an individual within the collector sector that places complete faith just in the fact that it meet the approval of CAC.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
@Broadstruck said:
NGC should have never straight graded that... Reverse is Terminally Toned.
Label should read NGC UNC DETAILS "Environmental Damage".
Do you think CAC should have stickered it?
No... It shouldn't have graded as a problem free coin nor been stickered.
As the problem with this coin is it will end up an individual within the collector sector that places complete faith just in the fact that it meet the approval of CAC.
@Broadstruck said:
NGC should have never straight graded that... Reverse is Terminally Toned.
Label should read NGC UNC DETAILS "Environmental Damage".
Do you think CAC should have stickered it?
No... It shouldn't have graded as a problem free coin nor been stickered.
As the problem with this coin is it will end up an individual within the collector sector that places complete faith just in the fact that it meet the approval of CAC.
Could CAC buy it sight unseen?
Sure as they might have stickered it sight unseen?
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
@fathom said:
CAC will sticker dark toned coins as I believe they think that helps affirm originality.
I disagree with this esp for the seated series. He has specifically stated some coins had too much skin and since luster was impacted he declined to sticker. These were some of the more original seated and trade dollars I have seen. The peace dollar is a mess but I am sure it appeals to a few, I find the CAC sticker puzzling but I withhold judgement since I haven't seen it in hand and if CAC liked it I give the benefit of the doubt that I might be missing something without a more through inspection. I suspect I would still disagree with it in hand but CAC doesn't factor in Crypto's standards so there's that.
Ironically, I think this two figure coin (priced at three figures) might be receiving more attention than a five figure one with similar negative qualities, would.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Interesting comments so far. I don't have a problem with the grade or with the sticker. In-hand, it's probably plenty lustrous despite the deep toning. It might even technically might merit a 64 or 65 grade, knocked down for eye appeal. Also, the level of toning might not be accurately depicted in the photo.
Even if the toning is that dark, it's still an appropriately graded, common-as-dirt MS63. The cost of slabbing and grading exceeds its numismatic premium.
I still don't have to like it, and I don't.
While I tend to like CAC'd Peace dollars, there are a huge number that I don't care for. Maybe 1 in 20 meets my personal ownership criteria.
@MFeld said:
Ironically, I think this two figure coin (priced at three figures) might be receiving more attention than a five figure one with similar negative qualities, would.
It's also just a 63. I'm not sure why people are so upset that it reached that (not) lofty grade.
@MFeld said:
Ironically, I think this two figure coin (priced at three figures) might be receiving more attention than a five figure one with similar negative qualities, would.
It's also just a 63. I'm not sure why people are so upset that it reached that (not) lofty grade.
It makes for an easy target. Never mind that it might look quite different in hand.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Just making sure ste sticker didn't 'fall off' another coin, I checked CAC website.
.
.
CAC Coin Look-Up
You can use the CAC Verification Search form below to check the CAC database for ALL coins that CAC has stickered. The database is updated every night, so if your coin was just submitted, please be patient.
Coin Verification Search
Cert #
6252005-007
Coin Verification Results
Serial Number
6252005007
Grading Service
NGC
Description
1922 Dollars Peace MS63
Status
Its in the top 2/3's of the grade
It has original surfaces
CAC would make a market in it.
Coins have fingerprints because humans use fingers to pick up coins. Sorry if that offends you. You do not have to like them, but why do have to dislike them so much that you feel the need to share your disdain with others? Is there a coin-collecting rule out there that says a coin cannot have fingerprints? Let me guess, you like your blast white?
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
At Long Beach a week or so ago, I saw a gorgeously toned MS 67 type coin, with a CAC sticker, which had a finger print which you could see if you looked at the coin carefully.
This is why you need to look at the coin yourself, or have someone you trust look at it for you. Ideally both. There are some issues that the grading services and CAC think are acceptable for a particular grade: some fingerprints and adjustment marks on early Dollars, for example - that some collectors don't like, and others are indifferent about them.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
It may very well be a solid for MS63, and CAC may very well be justified in stickering it even with the eye sore prints. MS63s don’t have to be pretty.
The coin does illustrate that contrary to popular opinion, not all CACed coins are worth a premium, PQ, or “like the Mercedes” of coin collecting.
ACop
Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Photos:
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Why would someone even send that to CAC in the first place?
For the record I like the coin but fail to see what CAC means here
Not a coin that I would be interested in.... I know many collectors like that condition, but not for me. Cheers, RickO
This is an example of where toning has gone too far, in my opinion. It’s reached the point of environmental damage.
Pass. Perhaps it looks better under the right lighting.
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I like the coin, personally. You can still see the luster through the dark toning.
I think CAC realizes that the coin is good for the grade, despite fingerprints and dark toning, and that there is a market for it in that 3 holder.
This is why even CAC coins need to be carefully examined before purchase. I'm surprised that coin straight graded with that close to terminal dark toning.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
NGC should have never straight graded that... Reverse is Terminally Toned.
Label should read NGC UNC DETAILS "Environmental Damage".
It means it's a 63. That's all a green CAC ever means. Fingerprints don't preclude a grade of 63.
Why would someone send it to NGC?
I'm guessing the toning is lighter in hand and they need it to be authenticated as "natural".
Agree and CAC loses credibility when they sticker a coin like this.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It is probably lighter. Look how dark the white holder is.
Why would someone spend their hard earned money:
1. Having a 1923 Peace Dollar slabbed
2. Having it stickered
?
The reason is that someone thought they could make big money selling it into the "toner" market. I wonder how that worked out? Is there a market for Peace Dollars with that kind of a look? Nothing would surprise me in the current coin collecting market.
Not a coin I’d want, for several reasons.
Yep as fingerprints are the least issue with this coin.
YUCK!
CAC means it's solid for the grade, meaning a MS63 A or B coin.
Do you think CAC should have stickered it?
Here it is for sale:
.
.
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
No... It shouldn't have graded as a problem free coin nor been stickered.
As the problem with this coin is it will end up an individual within the collector sector that places complete faith just in the fact that it meet the approval of CAC.
Could CAC buy it sight unseen?
Here’s eBay
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Here’s a goggle search
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Sure as they might have stickered it sight unseen?
CAC will sticker dark toned coins as I believe they think that helps affirm originality.
I disagree with this esp for the seated series. He has specifically stated some coins had too much skin and since luster was impacted he declined to sticker. These were some of the more original seated and trade dollars I have seen. The peace dollar is a mess but I am sure it appeals to a few, I find the CAC sticker puzzling but I withhold judgement since I haven't seen it in hand and if CAC liked it I give the benefit of the doubt that I might be missing something without a more through inspection. I suspect I would still disagree with it in hand but CAC doesn't factor in Crypto's standards so there's that.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I'd love to see this coin in hand, or perhaps a video of it.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
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Ironically, I think this two figure coin (priced at three figures) might be receiving more attention than a five figure one with similar negative qualities, would.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Interesting comments so far. I don't have a problem with the grade or with the sticker. In-hand, it's probably plenty lustrous despite the deep toning. It might even technically might merit a 64 or 65 grade, knocked down for eye appeal. Also, the level of toning might not be accurately depicted in the photo.
Even if the toning is that dark, it's still an appropriately graded, common-as-dirt MS63. The cost of slabbing and grading exceeds its numismatic premium.
I still don't have to like it, and I don't.
While I tend to like CAC'd Peace dollars, there are a huge number that I don't care for. Maybe 1 in 20 meets my personal ownership criteria.
Maybe the coin did not look that way when slabbed and sticker. It could have been improperly stored.
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It's also just a 63. I'm not sure why people are so upset that it reached that (not) lofty grade.
Keep it
It makes for an easy target. Never mind that it might look quite different in hand.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like the coin and the print doesn’t bother me.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
"It's dark and icky. And it's in one of those holders. And has a- gasp... sticker, too? Avert your eyes! Run away!"
Just making sure ste sticker didn't 'fall off' another coin, I checked CAC website.
.
.
CAC Coin Look-Up
You can use the CAC Verification Search form below to check the CAC database for ALL coins that CAC has stickered. The database is updated every night, so if your coin was just submitted, please be patient.
Coin Verification Search
Cert #
6252005-007
Coin Verification Results
Serial Number
6252005007
Grading Service
NGC
Description
1922 Dollars Peace MS63
Status
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Here is a dark toned Mint State CAC:
One again. The little green sticker means.....
Its in the top 2/3's of the grade
It has original surfaces
CAC would make a market in it.
Coins have fingerprints because humans use fingers to pick up coins. Sorry if that offends you. You do not have to like them, but why do have to dislike them so much that you feel the need to share your disdain with others? Is there a coin-collecting rule out there that says a coin cannot have fingerprints? Let me guess, you like your blast white?
That Peace dollar just screams "high end"!
At Long Beach a week or so ago, I saw a gorgeously toned MS 67 type coin, with a CAC sticker, which had a finger print which you could see if you looked at the coin carefully.
This is why you need to look at the coin yourself, or have someone you trust look at it for you. Ideally both. There are some issues that the grading services and CAC think are acceptable for a particular grade: some fingerprints and adjustment marks on early Dollars, for example - that some collectors don't like, and others are indifferent about them.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Shows you what CAC's priorities are. Attractive obviously isn't one of them.
Hard pass on this one. Needs to be cracked and dipped.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
it is quite well known what CAC is stickering. Solid for a 63. Nothing more. Nothing less.
No, it really doesn't.
peacockcoins
There is no comparison to the coin in the OP. The Seated coin is much more attractive. It is also graded MS61 and not MS63.
MS63 Peace dollars are as common as dirt. MS61 Seated dollars are not.