@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
Curious to know why you would think someone is an idiot for bidding on a coin they probably will like.
It never seems to fail throw a little color on a coin, and the bid idiots go nuts! Over paying for tarnish, and finger prints and willing to pay a premium on an common date Morgan ?
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Buying a coin that isnt a key or semi key, and dropping moon money on a coin that there somewhere in the neighborhood of another 12 million out there to choose from..... is just plain stupidity in my book. You may see it different but where I come from we put quality over quanity every day
And i will ad this....It doent help the hobby! As sooner or later that person will want to sell the coin, only to find out that they are the only 1 in a million that will over pay for said coin.
Now hung with a bad choice to begin with they loose interest and leave the hobby.
Thats why I personally try my best to discourage such, and lean towards education to keep that person interest on track.
Coin collecting is a tad bit more involved than placing little round disc in a folder.....its History, math ,science, research, and more. If your not willing to learn then you definitely picked the wrong hobby.
If only one in a million would pay for said coin, it likely wouldn't have brought what it did in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, those with different opinions and preferences from you aren't necessarily fools, idiots or what ever other adjective one cares to use. Some of them might have even researched and learned, before making their purchases.
I don’t see the common sense in paying huge money for readily available dates in very high condition. Case in point the 1943 walker at over $100,000. The coin can be bought for $2750 in 67-+ but jumps to $32,000 in 68 and $100,000 in 68+. Very tiny differences. And the plus grading is ambiguous and difficult to be consistent with. In my mind the only thing that can justify a very high price in a coin like this is amazing toning combined with a super high grade of 67 or better. Still not near a hundred thousand.!. still respect others who wish to pay these prices and would never call them idiots or foolish.
My crystal ball is broken. You can not understand, but if the 68+ sells next for $150k and the 67+ goes to$3000 in the same time frame...
But how do you justify $2750 to $32,000 for a simple + grade which is simply only a high end 67 and even more difficult to determine than a straight 67 to 68? And this is only a white coin essentially, not a beautiful toned piece which could be called a Picasso of coins like a painting. And 67+ is not a population of 1or 2.
It's the Market.
I don't have to justify it. I can choose to play or not. Clearly MULTIPLE people were willing to pay the difference. It would be better and more profitable for you to accept that fact rather than argue with it.
This is a extremely tiny market. The question is would you invest your money in these coins if Igave you $500,000 to invest in any coins you see potential in. I am just stating a personal opinion about these kind of coins, which I am entitled to. Not insulting these people who choose to buy these coins, as they can spend their own money as they please.
Coins can be investments but they shouldn't be investments first. Most tone heads know it is a thin and often one way market save for real monsters or coins validated buy TPGs, once slabbed the look can be subjective but some feel it makes it automatically accepted glossing over how many AT coins are in holders. Any peace dollar with any color in any TPG gets the few collectors in a tizzy due to the overall market's rejection which has constricted supply to the believers. Give them one with a holder and a sticker and it emboldens the faithful in a false sense of security even if it does protect the liquidity of the asset mostly depending on what level it is traded.
@MasonG said:
"Gouging" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
Were you deliberately trying to avoid the word "Swindle"
"Swindle" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
@MasonG said:
"Gouging" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
Were you deliberately trying to avoid the word "Swindle"
"Swindle" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
So... no. Shall I do "self-entitled"?
Nope. condescending and patronizing suits you better. Keep brown nosing
@jmlanzaf said:
It's not "greed" to supply a service and expect to get paid for that service. There's a reason that dealers, who have their own shops and internet sites, choose to consign certain items to Stack's or Heritage.
We have been through this before with scenarios A, B, C, D etc.
@jmlanzaf said:
I didn't spin anything. I just pointed out, maybe orthogonally, that one should never focus on fees but net proceeds. That's not "spin", it's just a statement.
So who get's to feel the pain?
@Cuprinkor who got paid 9000$ for a coin that sold for 12,000$ or the buyer who bought a 9000$ coin for 12,000$ or both of them?
Sinve you love to work with numbers, shall let you have fun with the percentages
And if that coin would only have realized $6000 in a different venue?
@MasonG said:
"Gouging" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
Were you deliberately trying to avoid the word "Swindle"
You are simply avoiding the idea that my coin sells for MORE money at Heritage even after the percentage is paid.
I can't get one quarter the money for tokens that Stacks routinely gets. It would be worth a 50% auction fee.
Is your assumption that all dealers are morons who can't do math? They routinely place material at HA and Stacks because even after paying 15 or 20%, they realize MORE than if they sold it themselves.
There's a reason HA and Stacks continue to exist. It is NOT because you are smarter than the rest of us.
@MasonG said:
"Gouging" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
Were you deliberately trying to avoid the word "Swindle"
You are simply avoiding the idea that my coin sells for MORE money at Heritage even after the percentage is paid.
I can't get one quarter the money for tokens that Stacks routinely gets. It would be worth a 50% auction fee.
Is your assumption that all dealers are morons who can't do math? They routinely place material at HA and Stacks because even after paying 15 or 20%, they realize MORE than if they sold it themselves.
There's a reason HA and Stacks continue to exist. It is NOT because you are smarter than the rest of us.
DUH!!!!
Then why is the seller Cuprinkor not getting the full 10,000 for his coin? Your hypothesis holds good for the ultra rare coins in the six figure range where the seller premium is negotiable and definitely not for the average collector.
@MasonG said:
"Gouging" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
Were you deliberately trying to avoid the word "Swindle"
You are simply avoiding the idea that my coin sells for MORE money at Heritage even after the percentage is paid.
I can't get one quarter the money for tokens that Stacks routinely gets. It would be worth a 50% auction fee.
Is your assumption that all dealers are morons who can't do math? They routinely place material at HA and Stacks because even after paying 15 or 20%, they realize MORE than if they sold it themselves.
There's a reason HA and Stacks continue to exist. It is NOT because you are smarter than the rest of us.
DUH!!!!
Then why is the seller Cuprinkor not getting the full 10,000 for his coin? Your hypothesis holds good for the ultra rare coins in the six figure range where the seller premium is negotiable and definitely not for the average collector.
Because he didn’t read the fine print and or negotiate a better sellers premium. Not putting him down. Just saying. On a $1000 coin GC doesn’t charge a sellers fee that I am aware of. So he could have sold the coin on GC. He either thought (maybe even did) that the selling price would be higher at Heritage or thought the sellers fee was less. Either way we won’t know if he had sold a GC for 0 sellers fee if he would have net more because the auction already occurred.
But complaining about the fees that are disclosed up front and likely signed and agreed to makes no sense. Sale price sure. Fees were avoidable.
@MasonG said:
"Gouging" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
Were you deliberately trying to avoid the word "Swindle"
You are simply avoiding the idea that my coin sells for MORE money at Heritage even after the percentage is paid.
I can't get one quarter the money for tokens that Stacks routinely gets. It would be worth a 50% auction fee.
Is your assumption that all dealers are morons who can't do math? They routinely place material at HA and Stacks because even after paying 15 or 20%, they realize MORE than if they sold it themselves.
There's a reason HA and Stacks continue to exist. It is NOT because you are smarter than the rest of us.
DUH!!!!
Then why is the seller Cuprinkor not getting the full 10,000 for his coin? Your hypothesis holds good for the ultra rare coins in the six figure range where the seller premium is negotiable and definitely not for the average collector.
Why is $10k the right price? That coin might only hammer for $10k at a major auction house. Getting $6000 with no premium is not better than $12000 with a 30% premium.
@bigjpst said:
Because he didn’t read the fine print and or negotiate a better sellers premium. Not putting him down. Just saying. On a $1000 coin GC doesn’t charge a sellers fee that I am aware of. So he could have sold the coin on GC. He either thought (maybe even did) that the selling price would be higher at Heritage or thought the sellers fee was less. Either way we won’t know if he had sold a GC for 0 sellers fee if he would have net more because the auction already occurred.
But complaining about the fees that are disclosed up front and likely signed and agreed to makes no sense. Sale price sure. Fees were avoidable.
Perhaps..... because the possibilities are endless.
It is just the aggrandizement of certain aspects that made the market leaders of yore go the way of the dinosaus - key examples being catalog emperor Sears, Photography empire Kodak etc. and as such this too is headed the same way,
Mounting personal attacks are not going to change that fact.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”
@jmlanzaf said:
Why is $10k the right price? That coin might only hammer for $10k at a major auction house. Getting $6000 with no premium is not better than $12000 with a 30% premium.
You are starting to go around in circles. We have gone past that time and again.
@jmlanzaf said:
That is the entire issue. What evidence do you have that the coin would get $10k on ebay? None. So your argument holds no more water.
So you mean to say the PCGS Price Guide Value and NGC Price Guide Value etc. are just magically concocted numbers by some clueless folks and has no bearing whatsoever in the market and supposed value estimates that buyers and sellers look to compare..
C'mon, I thought you could argue better than that.
@MasonG said:
"Gouging" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
Were you deliberately trying to avoid the word "Swindle"
You are simply avoiding the idea that my coin sells for MORE money at Heritage even after the percentage is paid.
I can't get one quarter the money for tokens that Stacks routinely gets. It would be worth a 50% auction fee.
Is your assumption that all dealers are morons who can't do math? They routinely place material at HA and Stacks because even after paying 15 or 20%, they realize MORE than if they sold it themselves.
There's a reason HA and Stacks continue to exist. It is NOT because you are smarter than the rest of us.
DUH!!!!
Then why is the seller Cuprinkor not getting the full 10,000 for his coin? Your hypothesis holds good for the ultra rare coins in the six figure range where the seller premium is negotiable and definitely not for the average collector.
I've never sold a 6 figure coin. I've always gotten 0% on any coin over $2500. I'm not a big wig. I've only consigned 4 or 5 coins to HA in the last 5 years.
@jmlanzaf said:
Why is $10k the right price? That coin might only hammer for $10k at a major auction house. Getting $6000 with no premium is not better than $12000 with a 30% premium.
You are starting to go around in circles. We have gone past that time and again.
@jmlanzaf said:
That is the entire issue. What evidence do you have that the coin would get $10k on ebay? None. So your argument holds no more water.
So you mean to say the PCGS Price Guide Value and NGC Price Guide Value etc. are just magically concocted numbers by some clueless folks and has no bearing whatsoever in the market and supposed value estimates that buyers and sellers look to compare..
C'mon, I thought you could argue better than that.
I'm saying that the PCGS value guide is made up of coins at HA and Stacks and not eBay sales. Did the OP claim $10k guide? He claimed $10k hammer.
Again, there's a reason that the smart money continues to consign certain things to HA and Stacks rather than cheaper venues.
@jmlanzaf said:
I've never sold a 6 figure coin. I've always gotten 0% on any coin over $2500. I'm not a big wig. I've only consigned 4 or 5 coins to HA in the last 5 years.
@jmlanzaf said:
Again, there's a reason that the smart money continues to consign certain things to HA and Stacks rather than cheaper venues.
So by your own admission you are not smart money.
Jokes aside, am keeping a close eye on the following eBay kisting
@AMRC said:
One again. The little green sticker means.....
Its in the top 2/3's of the grade
It has original surfaces
CAC would make a market in it.
Coins have fingerprints because humans use fingers to pick up coins. Sorry if that offends you. You do not have to like them, but why do have to dislike them so much that you feel the need to share your disdain with others? Is there a coin-collecting rule out there that says a coin cannot have fingerprints? Let me guess, you like your blast white?
Guess again Miss Cleo
Consider me schooled.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
Not commenting specifically on this particular silver dollar but sometimes a nice coin is not photogenic at all and look ugly but looks nicer in person under our eyeballs.
Could this be the case with this specific silver dollar?
I have noticed that Legend and even Heritage (for example) photos makes their coins for sale or for auction sometimes seem inferior to that of in person inspection.
@oreville said:
Not commenting specifically on this particular silver dollar but sometimes a nice coin is not photogenic at all and look ugly but looks nicer in person under our eyeballs.
Could this be the case with this specific silver dollar?
I have noticed that Legend and even Heritage (for example) photos makes their coins for sale or for auction sometimes seem inferior to that of in person inspection.
yes it could be the other way around too but I try not to get excited about a coin because it looks nice in a photo but there are tell tale signs of misleading photos such as lighting being too bright.
@AMRC said:
One again. The little green sticker means.....
Its in the top 2/3's of the grade
It has original surfaces
CAC would make a market in it.
Coins have fingerprints because humans use fingers to pick up coins. Sorry if that offends you. You do not have to like them, but why do have to dislike them so much that you feel the need to share your disdain with others? Is there a coin-collecting rule out there that says a coin cannot have fingerprints? Let me guess, you like your blast white?
Guess again Miss Cleo
Consider me schooled.
I have a neon green 18th century silver dollar as my avatar coin. The clues were there.
@HalfDimeDude said:
I had a Morgan MS 65 + * NGC toned with a finger print over the entire obv. Breaking the tone due to acids and oils off the fingers. I took it in a trade as I knew that the +/* and the tone some bid idiot would had to have. The coins sold in less than a week and I made $100 + cost .
So you buy coins specifically to make money from 'idiots'? Wow.
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Shouldn't the seller make good choices as well then for what to sell? I probably never buy a coin from you if your attitude is that a buyer is a 'fool', 'idiot', or what ever other adjective.
I'm rather surprised I'm the only one who is willing to express the sentiment that Heritage and Stacks and Legends and the rest play a legitimate role. It's kind of interesting given the negative attitudes expressed about ebay regularly that the thesis that ebay is superior to Heritage only has me pushing back.
Apparently Rule #1 on the forum is to never AGREE with jmlanzaf. 😀
I was taught earlier on to make decisions about a coin in hand and not by pictures. Use the pictures but if you cant see 1st hand get someone you trust to view it. This has served me well. It seems that many people on this thread have thrown this rule out and made up their mind about a coin that they never saw in hand.
In 1974 I was introduced to the "theoretical point at which no molecule would move" that being absolute zero 459 F or 273 C
Today I realized Kelvin 0 as a better way of speaking of all molecular motion stoppage aka Absolute zero and the achievement of that. Science has closed in on it today announcing coming within 38/trillionths of a kelvin for two (2) seconds.
What's going on here? IMHO; A little known research paper on absolute nothing that surpasses science and absolute zero.
Google the news on Absolute zero and see the fascinating comparison between Kelvin 0 zero and this thread.
@jmlanzaf said:
I'm rather surprised I'm the only one who is willing to express the sentiment that Heritage and Stacks and Legends and the rest play a legitimate role.
I agree with what you wrote, I just never said so specifically. So you're not the only one.
I'm rather surprised I'm the only one who is willing to express the sentiment that Heritage and Stacks and Legends and the rest play a legitimate role. It's kind of interesting given the negative attitudes expressed about ebay regularly that the thesis that ebay is superior to Heritage only has me pushing back.
Apparently Rule #1 on the forum is to never AGREE with jmlanzaf. 😀
Put a bucket over your head when you have a thought or speak and hear yourself.
You love to twist words when all I said was that eBay is definitely a cheaper option for the average collector and the not so big players to sell at 10% fees versus the 30% highway robbery that you insist on supporting as a delusional shill
Again, I do not wish to derail this thread topic of 3 massive finger prints on a CAC stickered Peace dollar, so cutting short here.
I did not want to post on this thread on the topic again but keep getting dragged into it by MasonG and jmlanzaf
Anyways, with regards to the D L Hansen MS 65+ 1878 7/8 TF Weak Morgan listed on eBay,
Current bid: US $797.00 with [ 13 bids ]
and just to prove my point because there has been more newbies to the hobby on eBay than the other sites - the price right now has gone beyond similar MS 65+ coin sales in the past three years
I'm rather surprised I'm the only one who is willing to express the sentiment that Heritage and Stacks and Legends and the rest play a legitimate role. It's kind of interesting given the negative attitudes expressed about ebay regularly that the thesis that ebay is superior to Heritage only has me pushing back.
Apparently Rule #1 on the forum is to never AGREE with jmlanzaf. 😀
Rule #1 is never argue with @jmlanzaf. Rule #2 is never argue with @MFeld.
(Stated in good fun! Your positions are generally well-supported and, therefore, difficult to assail...)
Again, I do not wish to derail this thread topic of 3 massive finger prints on a CAC stickered Peace dollar, so cutting short here.
I did not want to post on this thread on the topic again but keep getting dragged into it by MasonG and jmlanzaf
Anyways, with regards to the D L Hansen MS 65+ 1878 7/8 TF Weak Morgan listed on eBay,
Current bid: US $797.00 with [ 13 bids ]
and just to prove my point because there has been more newbies to the hobby on eBay than the other sites - the price right now has gone beyond similar MS 65+ coin sales in the past three years
PCGS # Date Price Grade Svc. Firm Sale Type Lot #
7070 Apr-2019 $600 MS65+ PCGS Heritage Auctions Internet U.S. Coin Auction #131915 Auction 23499
7070 Jan-2019 $780 MS65+ PCGS Heritage Auctions 2019 January 9-14 FUN U.S. Coins Signature Auction Orlando, FL Auction 8342
The old boys sorority can lounge and dream of the past just like folks at Xerox, Kodak and Sears did.
Edited to add link
Since I’m a biased party, I’m not going to enter the debate regarding commissions and the net amount received by consignors. However, I don’t see how the current eBay listing proves your point about prices. The link to the sale of other MS65+ examples doesn’t include any since April, 2019. And you probably know that overall, including Morgan Dollars, the market is considerably stronger now than it was back then. So comparing a current price to one or more from at least two years ago isn’t very solid “proof” of the type you’re claiming.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said:
Since I’m a biased party, I’m not going to enter the debate regarding commissions and the net amount received by consignors. However, I don’t see how the current eBay listing proves your point about prices. The link to the sale of other MS65+ examples doesn’t include any since April, 2019. And you probably know that overall, including Morgan Dollars, the market is considerably stronger now than it was back then. So comparing a current price to one or more from at least two years ago isn’t very solid “proof” of the type you’re claiming.
The idea of putting up that example is because it is an MS65+ from a very well known collection to drive home the point that it has racked up enough interest amongst the newer entrants into the hobby and thus push it beyond whatever price data is available since past three years with no spin on it and was inspired by the reply post quoted below.
@jmlanzaf said:
I'm saying that the PCGS value guide is made up of coins at HA and Stacks and not eBay sales.
And a 10% fee is all there is to it. Simple and straight forward as that.
@MFeld said:
Since I’m a biased party, I’m not going to enter the debate regarding commissions and the net amount received by consignors. However, I don’t see how the current eBay listing proves your point about prices. The link to the sale of other MS65+ examples doesn’t include any since April, 2019. And you probably know that overall, including Morgan Dollars, the market is considerably stronger now than it was back then. So comparing a current price to one or more from at least two years ago isn’t very solid “proof” of the type you’re claiming.
The idea of putting up that example is because it is an MS65+ from a very well known collection to drive home the point that it has racked up enough interest amongst the newer entrants into the hobby and thus push it beyond whatever price data is available since past three years with no spin on it.
And a 10% fee is all there is to it. Simple and straight forward as that.
Thank you. It sounds as if I misunderstood the point you were trying to prove. I thought you were offering the listing to prove that coins can bring strong prices on eBay. And of course, many do, while many others don’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thank you. It sounds as if I misunderstood the point you were trying to prove. I thought you were offering the listing to prove that coins can bring strong prices on eBay. And of course, many do, while many others don’t.
Thank you. I am merely trying to explain things as viewed from a "possible" 16 year old young numismatist's perspective because the next generation is the future of the hobby.
The reason I say "possible" is because right now he is more interested in making money off of it than collecting because he loves to turn around a purchase to flip and make a tidy profit
He and I get into similar discussions and can very well see the angle approached from. Just wanted to share it with the old guard that being rigid and deeply entrenched in the past is not going to help nor save the situation and will end up just like what happened to philately.
Edited to add Forbes article and a dealer's write up links to draw paralles. The much needed shift in approach to thinking outside the box is required NOW. Incidentally my son would NOT touch with a barge pole the CAC stickered peace coin which is the main theme of the thread.
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Shouldn't the seller make good choices as well then for what to sell? I probably never buy a coin from you if your attitude is that a buyer is a 'fool', 'idiot', or what ever other adjective.
First of all I didn't purchase the specimen, it was taken in a trade as the original owner did not have the cash to complete a deal. It was an great choice to take it as l did state it sold quickly and a profits were made.
I see so many here who want their opinions or post respected ....however they do not extend the same courtesy or respect to other members opinions.You know they have streets call " one way" and thats exactly what I see here....as long as its " your opion" then all should bow down, and not make waves.....! Agree,and respect your post.
Well whether you like it or not, whether you like me , or not doesn't mean squat to me.....but like it or not as long as the rules, and regulations of this forum aren't broken . Then my opions as well as any other other members options ....should recieve with the same amount of respect regardless!
As it be very easy to troll your post and dump as much garbage as you done here!
But thats what trolls do......and that my friend is MY OPINION!
Fool ,idiot,or what ever other adjective one cares to use to describe bad decisions.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike .... its about making good choices!
Shouldn't the seller make good choices as well then for what to sell? I probably never buy a coin from you if your attitude is that a buyer is a 'fool', 'idiot', or what ever other adjective.
First of all I didn't purchase the specimen, it was taken in a trade as the original owner did not have the cash to complete a deal. It was an great choice to take it as l did state it sold quickly and a profits were made.
I see so many here who want their opions or post respected ....however they do not extend the same courtesy or respect to other members options.You know they have streets call " one way" and thats exactly what I see here....as long as its " your opion" then all should bow down, and not make waves.....! Agree,and respect your post.
Well whether you like it or not, whether you like me , or not doesn't mean squat to me.....but like it or not as long as the rules, and regulations of this forum aren't broken . Then my opions as well as any other other members opion ....should recieve with the same amount of respect regardless!
As it be very easy to troll your post and dump as much garbage as you done here!
But thats what trolls do......and that my friend is MY OPION!
Your opinions (not “opions”) aren’t automatically entitled to respect from others. Neither are mine. And I wouldn’t expect them to be when you refer to others as “fools”, “idiots”, etc.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm rather surprised I'm the only one who is willing to express the sentiment that Heritage and Stacks and Legends and the rest play a legitimate role. It's kind of interesting given the negative attitudes expressed about ebay regularly that the thesis that ebay is superior to Heritage only has me pushing back.
Apparently Rule #1 on the forum is to never AGREE with jmlanzaf. 😀
Put a bucket over your head when you have a thought or speak and hear yourself.
You love to twist words when all I said was that eBay is definitely a cheaper option for the average collector and the not so big players to sell at 10% fees versus the 30% highway robbery that you insist on supporting as a delusional shill
It's not the fee, it's the net price realized.
I think I'm just keep repeating that in hopes that it sinks I n.
Thank you. It sounds as if I misunderstood the point you were trying to prove. I thought you were offering the listing to prove that coins can bring strong prices on eBay. And of course, many do, while many others don’t.
Thank you. I am merely trying to explain things as viewed from a "possible" 16 year old young numismatist's perspective because the next generation is the future of the hobby.
The reason I say "possible" is because right now he is more interested in making money off of it than collecting because he loves to turn around a purchase to flip and make a tidy profit
He and I get into similar discussions and can very well see the angle approached from. Just wanted to share it with the old guard that being rigid and deeply entrenched in the past is not going to help nor save the situation and will end up just like what happened to philately.
Edited to add Forbes article and a dealer's write up links to draw paralles. The much needed shift in approach to thinking outside the box is required NOW. Incidentally my son would NOT touch with a barge pole the CAC stickered peace coin which is the main theme of the thread.
No one is a greater fan of ebay than I. I've done more than 75,000 transactions valued at over $2 million. But there are coins I would immediately send to Heritage and not even think about putting on ebay. If you think you are saving 20% on those coins, I can safely say you are actually losing 20% or more. But you simply refuse to understand that.
It has nothing to do with old guard, Sears nonsense that you keep spewing.
When the value added is more than the cost, only a fool refuses to pay it.
The OP 63 Peace Dollar is a common, environment damaged, ugly coin. I don’t care what CAC thinks about it or anybody else. Throw it back in the bargain box lol.
The Seated $ is an ugly coin possibly deserves a details grade. The sticker on it means nothing to me. Send it in for conservation? I question if they would even offer 40% TPG MV if it was shopped around the bourse.
@Cougar1978 said:
The OP 63 Peace Dollar is a common, environment damaged, ugly coin. I don’t care what CAC thinks about it or anybody else. Throw it back in the bargain box lol.
The Seated $ is an ugly coin possibly deserves a details grade. The sticker on it means nothing to me. Send it in for conservation? I question if they would even offer 40% TPG MV if it was shopped around the bourse.
I believe you when you say that the sticker means nothing to you. And based on what you said you’d question, it appears that you don’t understand the CAC market very well. Perhaps if you did, the sticker would mean something to you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
Coins can be investments but they shouldn't be investments first. Most tone heads know it is a thin and often one way market save for real monsters or coins validated buy TPGs, once slabbed the look can be subjective but some feel it makes it automatically accepted glossing over how many AT coins are in holders. Any peace dollar with any color in any TPG gets the few collectors in a tizzy due to the overall market's rejection which has constricted supply to the believers. Give them one with a holder and a sticker and it emboldens the faithful in a false sense of security even if it does protect the liquidity of the asset mostly depending on what level it is traded.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
"Swindle" = "Somebody who has the nerve to charge what they think the service they provide is worth, when I don't want to pay that much".
So... no. Shall I do "self-entitled"?
Nope. condescending and patronizing suits you better. Keep brown nosing
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Didn't think so.
Repetitive and redundant is no way to go through life, son.
You still chasing your own tail here.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
And if that coin would only have realized $6000 in a different venue?
You are simply avoiding the idea that my coin sells for MORE money at Heritage even after the percentage is paid.
I can't get one quarter the money for tokens that Stacks routinely gets. It would be worth a 50% auction fee.
Is your assumption that all dealers are morons who can't do math? They routinely place material at HA and Stacks because even after paying 15 or 20%, they realize MORE than if they sold it themselves.
There's a reason HA and Stacks continue to exist. It is NOT because you are smarter than the rest of us.
That is a a supposition unlike the actual reality which transpired. So that argument does not hold water.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
DUH!!!!
Then why is the seller Cuprinkor not getting the full 10,000 for his coin? Your hypothesis holds good for the ultra rare coins in the six figure range where the seller premium is negotiable and definitely not for the average collector.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Because he didn’t read the fine print and or negotiate a better sellers premium. Not putting him down. Just saying. On a $1000 coin GC doesn’t charge a sellers fee that I am aware of. So he could have sold the coin on GC. He either thought (maybe even did) that the selling price would be higher at Heritage or thought the sellers fee was less. Either way we won’t know if he had sold a GC for 0 sellers fee if he would have net more because the auction already occurred.
But complaining about the fees that are disclosed up front and likely signed and agreed to makes no sense. Sale price sure. Fees were avoidable.
My Ebay Store
Why is $10k the right price? That coin might only hammer for $10k at a major auction house. Getting $6000 with no premium is not better than $12000 with a 30% premium.
That is the entire issue. What evidence do you have that the coin would get $10k on ebay? None. So your argument holds no more water.
Perhaps..... because the possibilities are endless.
It is just the aggrandizement of certain aspects that made the market leaders of yore go the way of the dinosaus - key examples being catalog emperor Sears, Photography empire Kodak etc. and as such this too is headed the same way,
Mounting personal attacks are not going to change that fact.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
You are starting to go around in circles. We have gone past that time and again.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13069696#Comment_13069696
So you mean to say the PCGS Price Guide Value and NGC Price Guide Value etc. are just magically concocted numbers by some clueless folks and has no bearing whatsoever in the market and supposed value estimates that buyers and sellers look to compare..
C'mon, I thought you could argue better than that.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
I've never sold a 6 figure coin. I've always gotten 0% on any coin over $2500. I'm not a big wig. I've only consigned 4 or 5 coins to HA in the last 5 years.
I'm saying that the PCGS value guide is made up of coins at HA and Stacks and not eBay sales. Did the OP claim $10k guide? He claimed $10k hammer.
Again, there's a reason that the smart money continues to consign certain things to HA and Stacks rather than cheaper venues.
Coming back to the core issue without the whole rigmarole, quibbling over semantics does not take away the fact that 30% is highway robbery.
QED
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
And yet another thread gets sucked into the vortex of no return...........................
So by your own admission you are not smart money.
Jokes aside, am keeping a close eye on the following eBay kisting
878 7/8 TF Weak Morgan D.L. Hansen Collection PCGS MS65+
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165119261688?hash=item2671dffbf8:g:OIgAAOSwnixhAKrG
And of course, there are many on there that buy the coins and try to flip them for profit.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=hansen+coin&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=16
Again, I do not wish to derail this thread topic of 3 massive finger prints on a CAC stickered Peace dollar, so cutting short here.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Consider me schooled.
Phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttt
Some people are just like that. Nothing you can do for them, they'll always find a way for everything to be someone else's fault.
Not commenting specifically on this particular silver dollar but sometimes a nice coin is not photogenic at all and look ugly but looks nicer in person under our eyeballs.
Could this be the case with this specific silver dollar?
I have noticed that Legend and even Heritage (for example) photos makes their coins for sale or for auction sometimes seem inferior to that of in person inspection.
Or the other way around!
Whats going on here
yes it could be the other way around too but I try not to get excited about a coin because it looks nice in a photo but there are tell tale signs of misleading photos such as lighting being too bright.
@vulcanize
Rule #3 on this forum: never argue with @jmlanzaf
Smitten with DBLCs.
I have a neon green 18th century silver dollar as my avatar coin. The clues were there.
So you buy coins specifically to make money from 'idiots'? Wow.
Shouldn't the seller make good choices as well then for what to sell? I probably never buy a coin from you if your attitude is that a buyer is a 'fool', 'idiot', or what ever other adjective.
Why isn't that rule #1? 😕
What are rules #1 and #2?
I'm rather surprised I'm the only one who is willing to express the sentiment that Heritage and Stacks and Legends and the rest play a legitimate role. It's kind of interesting given the negative attitudes expressed about ebay regularly that the thesis that ebay is superior to Heritage only has me pushing back.
Apparently Rule #1 on the forum is to never AGREE with jmlanzaf. 😀
I was taught earlier on to make decisions about a coin in hand and not by pictures. Use the pictures but if you cant see 1st hand get someone you trust to view it. This has served me well. It seems that many people on this thread have thrown this rule out and made up their mind about a coin that they never saw in hand.
In 1974 I was introduced to the "theoretical point at which no molecule would move" that being absolute zero 459 F or 273 C
Today I realized Kelvin 0 as a better way of speaking of all molecular motion stoppage aka Absolute zero and the achievement of that. Science has closed in on it today announcing coming within 38/trillionths of a kelvin for two (2) seconds.
What's going on here? IMHO; A little known research paper on absolute nothing that surpasses science and absolute zero.
Google the news on Absolute zero and see the fascinating comparison between Kelvin 0 zero and this thread.
I agree with what you wrote, I just never said so specifically. So you're not the only one.
Put a bucket over your head when you have a thought or speak and hear yourself.
You love to twist words when all I said was that eBay is definitely a cheaper option for the average collector and the not so big players to sell at 10% fees versus the 30% highway robbery that you insist on supporting as a delusional shill
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
I did not want to post on this thread on the topic again but keep getting dragged into it by MasonG and jmlanzaf
Anyways, with regards to the D L Hansen MS 65+ 1878 7/8 TF Weak Morgan listed on eBay,
Current bid: US $797.00 with [ 13 bids ]
and just to prove my point because there has been more newbies to the hobby on eBay than the other sites - the price right now has gone beyond similar MS 65+ coin sales in the past three years
https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1878-7-8tf-7tf-reverse-ms/7070
PCGS # Date Price Grade Svc. Firm Sale Type Lot #
7070 Apr-2021 $1,100 MS65+ PCGS eBay eBay Sales 04/18/2021 ~ 04/24/2021 Best Offer 194054898655
7070 Jan-2021 $1,146 MS65+ PCGS eBay eBay Sales 01/24/2021 ~ 01/30/2021 Best Offer 183795180669
7070 Apr-2019 $600 MS65+ PCGS Heritage Auctions Internet U.S. Coin Auction #131915 Auction 23499
7070 Jan-2019 $780 MS65+ PCGS Heritage Auctions 2019 January 9-14 FUN U.S. Coins Signature Auction Orlando, FL Auction 8342
The old boys sorority can lounge and dream of the past just like folks at Xerox, Kodak and Sears did.
Edited to add link
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Rule #1 is never argue with @jmlanzaf. Rule #2 is never argue with @MFeld.
(Stated in good fun! Your positions are generally well-supported and, therefore, difficult to assail...)
Smitten with DBLCs.
Since I’m a biased party, I’m not going to enter the debate regarding commissions and the net amount received by consignors. However, I don’t see how the current eBay listing proves your point about prices. The link to the sale of other MS65+ examples doesn’t include any since April, 2019. And you probably know that overall, including Morgan Dollars, the market is considerably stronger now than it was back then. So comparing a current price to one or more from at least two years ago isn’t very solid “proof” of the type you’re claiming.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The idea of putting up that example is because it is an MS65+ from a very well known collection to drive home the point that it has racked up enough interest amongst the newer entrants into the hobby and thus push it beyond whatever price data is available since past three years with no spin on it and was inspired by the reply post quoted below.
And a 10% fee is all there is to it. Simple and straight forward as that.
Edited to add quote.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Thank you. It sounds as if I misunderstood the point you were trying to prove. I thought you were offering the listing to prove that coins can bring strong prices on eBay. And of course, many do, while many others don’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thank you. I am merely trying to explain things as viewed from a "possible" 16 year old young numismatist's perspective because the next generation is the future of the hobby.
The reason I say "possible" is because right now he is more interested in making money off of it than collecting because he loves to turn around a purchase to flip and make a tidy profit
He and I get into similar discussions and can very well see the angle approached from. Just wanted to share it with the old guard that being rigid and deeply entrenched in the past is not going to help nor save the situation and will end up just like what happened to philately.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardlehmann/2020/02/19/price-discovery-in-stamps/
https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamps-postal-history/2017/july/embrace-change-move-stamp-collecting-forward.html
Edited to add Forbes article and a dealer's write up links to draw paralles. The much needed shift in approach to thinking outside the box is required NOW. Incidentally my son would NOT touch with a barge pole the CAC stickered peace coin which is the main theme of the thread.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
First of all I didn't purchase the specimen, it was taken in a trade as the original owner did not have the cash to complete a deal. It was an great choice to take it as l did state it sold quickly and a profits were made.
I see so many here who want their opinions or post respected ....however they do not extend the same courtesy or respect to other members opinions.You know they have streets call " one way" and thats exactly what I see here....as long as its " your opion" then all should bow down, and not make waves.....! Agree,and respect your post.
Well whether you like it or not, whether you like me , or not doesn't mean squat to me.....but like it or not as long as the rules, and regulations of this forum aren't broken . Then my opions as well as any other other members options ....should recieve with the same amount of respect regardless!
As it be very easy to troll your post and dump as much garbage as you done here!
But thats what trolls do......and that my friend is MY OPINION!
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
Your opinions (not “opions”) aren’t automatically entitled to respect from others. Neither are mine. And I wouldn’t expect them to be when you refer to others as “fools”, “idiots”, etc.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It's not the fee, it's the net price realized.
I think I'm just keep repeating that in hopes that it sinks I n.
No one is a greater fan of ebay than I. I've done more than 75,000 transactions valued at over $2 million. But there are coins I would immediately send to Heritage and not even think about putting on ebay. If you think you are saving 20% on those coins, I can safely say you are actually losing 20% or more. But you simply refuse to understand that.
It has nothing to do with old guard, Sears nonsense that you keep spewing.
When the value added is more than the cost, only a fool refuses to pay it.
You can lead a fool to an idea but you can't make him think.
No comment.
The OP 63 Peace Dollar is a common, environment damaged, ugly coin. I don’t care what CAC thinks about it or anybody else. Throw it back in the bargain box lol.
The Seated $ is an ugly coin possibly deserves a details grade. The sticker on it means nothing to me. Send it in for conservation? I question if they would even offer 40% TPG MV if it was shopped around the bourse.
I believe you when you say that the sticker means nothing to you. And based on what you said you’d question, it appears that you don’t understand the CAC market very well. Perhaps if you did, the sticker would mean something to you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.