I wonder if this offering will be different than the usual in terms of FDOI. Typically, there’s the mass influx of orders on day one until unavailable, and then there’s a trickle of available coins each morning thereafter. But with preorders, I’m not sure if the trickle will occur...
at 175,000 mintage and what is not 10 HHL there may be remaining on day 2 to pre-order.
the lack of enthusiasm on this thread makes me wonder if they'll even get close to a sell out
(unless flippers sell it out then return them for a shipping cost loss)
It’s always a crap shoot until the actual day. There is a lot of hype on social media for this one. Morgan and Peace dollar collectors seem to be voicing some disappointment with this commemorative, but I think most will still buy into this issue. Others seem to think this will be an instant sellout, which may create a self-fulfilling prophecy. My bet is on a sellout for day 1.
@Halfpence said:
It’s always a crap shoot until the actual day. There is a lot of hype on social media for this one. Morgan and Peace dollar collectors seem to be voicing some disappointment with this commemorative, but I think most will still buy into this issue. Others seem to think this will be an instant sellout, which may create a self-fulfilling prophecy. My bet is on a sellout for day 1.
Yes, but they don't ship until possibly October. That is an eternity in Mint Issue Time.
I'm starting to smell the 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated fiasco all over again.
Prediction: Some day in late summer, there will be 10,000 plus available at 7:30 a.m.
@Halfpence said:
It’s always a crap shoot until the actual day. There is a lot of hype on social media for this one.
hype Re: flipping or acquiring?
Morgan and Peace dollar collectors seem to be voicing some disappointment with this commemorative,
sounds like flipping hype.
but I think most will still buy into this issue. Others seem to think this will be an instant sellout, which may create a self-fulfilling prophecy. My bet is on a sellout for day 1.
I don't see the commitment here on the 'i'll still get them" there are a few that have said they'll only get a couple out of the 6.
and this is one issue that I would like to have, will try to have, but the only way I'm considering a secondary market purchase would be to buy the last one or two issues I couldn't get on day 1 and 7:30am thereafter.
@MsMorrisine said:
they haven't received the mail yet
I sent an Email and didn't expect it to go anywhere....here was the response:
**We are in receipt of your correspondence and apologize for any inconvenience experienced.
Please be advised that your complaint about the HHOL for the Morgan and Peace Dollar Coins has been forwarded on to upper management for your voice to be heard. We value the opinions of our customers and want to ensure that each customer receives the best experience possible with the United States Mint.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
If you have any further questions, you may contact us seven (7) days a week from 8:00 AM to 12:00 midnight Eastern Time. Hearing and speech impaired customers with TTY equipment can reach us Monday through Friday from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM Eastern Time or by visiting us online at www.catalog.usmint.gov. To contact us by email, please reply to this correspondence or send an email to usmint-support@usmcatalog.com.
Thank you for your support of the United States Mint.
United States Mint
Customer Service Center
1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468)
TTY 1-888-321-MINT (6468)
001-1-202-898-6468**
25 coin HHL is their answer to complaints that the dealers are being catered to. The high product limit supports it.
three different sale dates is their answer to an overworked website.
With the possible exception of the Peace, these will likely not be a good money maker for the flipper.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@MWK said:
The U.S. Mint seems to be putting the same amount of silver into these new Morgan dollars as they put into the ones from 100 years ago but at 0.999 fineness. If they're not going to put one full troy ounce into these coins, I do wish they'd blend in the copper to make it have the same metallic content as the original Morgan dollars. As it is, it seems that the new Morgan dollars are going to be thinner than the original ones while keeping the same 1.5" diameter.
My understanding is that the thickness will be the same but the amount of silver in each coin will be higher (about .858 ounces instead of .7734).
US mint granny bait.... IMHO....at $85 each no worries here as Ill give them a hard pass....I rather spend that on a REAL Morgan even a common date than these..... I wasnt impressed with the gold walker, standing liberty or mercury dime....seems to me that when you own out right the designs and those designs served the country for decades no need to take an iconic design ,and make it look like something out of a Looney tunes production!
No need for cartoon coins!
As I previously mentioned, I am not fighting the Mint crowds for these - and 6 times yet! If I decide to buy them (not sure yet), I will get them from a dealer. Yes, it will cost more, but I save myself the grief of fighting with the Mint's web site, where we are blocked at times and treated like criminals. I am done dealing with the Mint on these high-demand issues. I will only deal with them on coins I like where the demand is not that great. They are certainly doing everything in their power to kill my business!
love that the hhl's been lowered to 10 - got a real chance now
I know this isn't the most scientific basis on which to measure chances of any given release, but I always think of the 2018 palladium eagle release w mintage of 15,000 and how that was sold out v quickly, so dividing 175,000 by 10 to get 17,500 makes me feel better abt chances of getting my two-apiece that I'm aiming for, although thinking more over past 24 of picking up 5 of the peace; such a beautiful and unique coin in us numismatic history; would be nice to have e some surplus to give away as gifts
@MWK said:
As it is, it seems that the new Morgan dollars are going to be thinner than the original ones while keeping the same 1.5" diameter.
My understanding is that the thickness will be the same but the amount of silver in each coin will be higher (about .858 ounces instead of .7734).
Thank you! You are correct and I was wrong. The new Morgan dollars will have more silver than the ones from 100+ years ago. I can only assume this means that they will be at least as thick as the Morgan dollars from 100+ years ago.
This actually makes me much more interested in these new Morgan dollars and I'll almost certainly buy (or die trying ) all five variants now along with the new Peace dollar. The only thing that would make me more excited about these coins is if they made them with the same metal composition as the old coins.
@Goldbully said:
I'd like to se the HHL dropped to 5 or less. Anyone else?
my letter went of Friday.... (forgetting) requesting a 5 HHL.
at least it is 10 now.
are there really 175,000 collectors for each of these? It seemed like selling 25 to 7,000 flippers was destined for a product nightmare one flippers can not sell.
@MWK said:
As it is, it seems that the new Morgan dollars are going to be thinner than the original ones while keeping the same 1.5" diameter.
My understanding is that the thickness will be the same but the amount of silver in each coin will be higher (about .858 ounces instead of .7734).
Thank you! You are correct and I was wrong. The new Morgan dollars will have more silver than the ones from 100+ years ago. I can only assume this means that they will be at least as thick as the Morgan dollars from 100+ years ago.
This actually makes me much more interested in these new Morgan dollars and I'll almost certainly buy (or die trying ) all five variants now along with the new Peace dollar. The only thing that would make me more excited about these coins is if they made them with the same metal composition as the old coins.
It might be less thick as it takes less silver to have the same total coin weight, which is what is mandated under the law. Honestly the mint should have stuck to 90% silver & 10% copper.
@fiftysevener said:
I haven't seen the actual offer yet. Can someone post a link ?
Okay thanks anyway I found them in the other thread. I don't really care for them.
@fiftysevener said:
I haven't seen the actual offer yet. Can someone post a link ?
Okay thanks anyway I found them in the other thread. I don't really care for them.
Artist rendition.
I really wish they used actual photos once there is a production sample available. The artist renditions are OK to a point but actual photos can't be beat.
@fiftysevener said:
I haven't seen the actual offer yet. Can someone post a link ?
Okay thanks anyway I found them in the other thread. I don't really care for them.
Artist rendition.
I really wish they used actual photos once there is a production sample available. The artist renditions are OK to a point but actual photos can't be beat.
How can they take a photo of something that hasn't been minted yet.
The offering is a presale, coins wont be minted until after the presale window closes.
Once the product is no longer available for sale what good is a picture?
@fiftysevener said:
I haven't seen the actual offer yet. Can someone post a link ?
Okay thanks anyway I found them in the other thread. I don't really care for them.
Artist rendition.
I really wish they used actual photos once there is a production sample available. The artist renditions are OK to a point but actual photos can't be beat.
How can they take a photo of something that hasn't been minted yet.
The offering is a presale, coins wont be minted until after the presale window closes.
Once the product is no longer available for sale what good is a picture?
Read again what I said once there is a production sample available
The drawings should only be used until an actual coin is available to photograph. Not every coin sells out in hours or is a pre-sale offering. In fact pre-sale is a rare event for the Mint. Lots coins are available for sale for quite a long time. Even after a sell out I would rather see a photograph than the limited realism of the drawing.
But that's just me. You are not required to agree.
edit to add
What good is a photograph after the product is not available? Really? What good is a photo of your Granny or other relative or friend once they are gone? Or your first car or home. A photo is a detailed representation of a real thing. A drawing is not.
@MWK said:
As it is, it seems that the new Morgan dollars are going to be thinner than the original ones while keeping the same 1.5" diameter.
My understanding is that the thickness will be the same but the amount of silver in each coin will be higher (about .858 ounces instead of .7734).
Thank you! You are correct and I was wrong. The new Morgan dollars will have more silver than the ones from 100+ years ago. I can only assume this means that they will be at least as thick as the Morgan dollars from 100+ years ago.
This actually makes me much more interested in these new Morgan dollars and I'll almost certainly buy (or die trying ) all five variants now along with the new Peace dollar. The only thing that would make me more excited about these coins is if they made them with the same metal composition as the old coins.
It might be less thick as it takes less silver to have the same total coin weight, which is what is mandated under the law. Honestly the mint should have stuck to 90% silver & 10% copper.
By volume (not by atomic weight), copper is 85.5% as heavy as silver. So in order for the new Morgan/Peace dollars to weigh the same as the earlier ones, the thickness would need to be reduced by about 1.45%. Not enough to be noticeable IMO.
and that is the thickness of the planchet. it would be interesting if they press up the rims to the old thickness, keep the relief the same, and just make the fields thinner.
that's what I'd do.
Everyone write to the Mint and make me head of decisions.
everyone buy yourself some calipers. If you don't like the caliper idea, don't mention that to the Mint.
[Pre-orders will be taken from noon Eastern Time May 24 through 3 p.m. June 7 or until orders exhaust limits for the two privy-marked Morgan dollars.]
Can anyone explain this...so how did this preorder work? Are you telling me that 175,000 of the first two coins ARE NOT now available on Day 1 of sales on 5/24? I'm very confused?
...or are they going to adjust orders downward based on demand...to spread them around to more sellers...which would be fine with me!
@RichR said:
[Pre-orders will be taken from noon Eastern Time May 24 through 3 p.m. June 7 or until orders exhaust limits for the two privy-marked Morgan dollars.]
Can anyone explain this...so how did this preorder work? Are you telling me that 175,000 of the first two coins ARE NOT now available on Day 1 of sales on 5/24? I'm very confused?
...or are they going to adjust orders downward based on demand...to spread them around to more sellers...which would be fine with me!
My take ...
~ The Mint will start accepting "pre-orders" for 21XC and 21XD on 05/24/21. They will stop accepting "pre-orders" on 06/07/21, or sooner if the product limit of 175,000 have been "pre-sold".
~ These coins will NOT be shipped during the "pre-order" period. Instead, they will begin to ship in OCT.
~ I do not believe that they are going to "adjust orders downward based on demand". In other words, if you successfully place a "pre-order" for 10 units, you should receive 10 units in OCT. This assumes, of course, that there are no order complications (e.g., declined credit card transaction).
@RichR said:
[Pre-orders will be taken from noon Eastern Time May 24 through 3 p.m. June 7 or until orders exhaust limits for the two privy-marked Morgan dollars.]
Can anyone explain this...so how did this preorder work? Are you telling me that 175,000 of the first two coins ARE NOT now available on Day 1 of sales on 5/24? I'm very confused?
...or are they going to adjust orders downward based on demand...to spread them around to more sellers...which would be fine with me!
My take ...
~ The Mint will start accepting "pre-orders" for 21XC and 21XD on 05/24/21. They will stop accepting "pre-orders" on 06/07/21, or when the product limit of 175,000 have been "pre-sold".
~ These coins will NOT be shipped during the "pre-order" period. Instead, they will begin to ship in OCT.
~ I do not believe that they are going to "adjust orders downward based on demand". In other words, if you successfully place a "pre-order" for 10 units, you should receive 10 units in OCT. This assumes, of course, that there are no order complications (e.g., declined credit card transaction).
It is this. They've done this before.
This creates the possibility that this ends up really undersold. You are going to potentially have months of cancellations.
[[This creates the possibility that this ends up really undersold. You are going to potentially have months of cancellations.]]
Ahh...this would just break my heart....as they skyrocket in value once the final sales are reconciled and most are melted!
Actually, that would be very appropriate for a Morgan...initially getting melted by the millions...and true rarities only becoming apparent years later!
Comments
The only reason to get the Friends and Family network up for this is FDOI.
I expect the HHL to be lifted quickly.
I'll pass on the Morgan pieces. If I buy a Peace Dollar I'll get a graded 69 for Christmas....maybe.
I wonder if this offering will be different than the usual in terms of FDOI. Typically, there’s the mass influx of orders on day one until unavailable, and then there’s a trickle of available coins each morning thereafter. But with preorders, I’m not sure if the trickle will occur...
at 175,000 mintage and what is not 10 HHL there may be remaining on day 2 to pre-order.
the lack of enthusiasm on this thread makes me wonder if they'll even get close to a sell out
(unless flippers sell it out then return them for a shipping cost loss)
It’s always a crap shoot until the actual day. There is a lot of hype on social media for this one. Morgan and Peace dollar collectors seem to be voicing some disappointment with this commemorative, but I think most will still buy into this issue. Others seem to think this will be an instant sellout, which may create a self-fulfilling prophecy. My bet is on a sellout for day 1.
Yes, but they don't ship until possibly October. That is an eternity in Mint Issue Time.
I'm starting to smell the 2017 Enhanced Uncirculated fiasco all over again.
Prediction: Some day in late summer, there will be 10,000 plus available at 7:30 a.m.
hype Re: flipping or acquiring?
sounds like flipping hype.
I don't see the commitment here on the 'i'll still get them" there are a few that have said they'll only get a couple out of the 6.
and this is one issue that I would like to have, will try to have, but the only way I'm considering a secondary market purchase would be to buy the last one or two issues I couldn't get on day 1 and 7:30am thereafter.
I sent an Email and didn't expect it to go anywhere....here was the response:
**We are in receipt of your correspondence and apologize for any inconvenience experienced.
Please be advised that your complaint about the HHOL for the Morgan and Peace Dollar Coins has been forwarded on to upper management for your voice to be heard. We value the opinions of our customers and want to ensure that each customer receives the best experience possible with the United States Mint.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
If you have any further questions, you may contact us seven (7) days a week from 8:00 AM to 12:00 midnight Eastern Time. Hearing and speech impaired customers with TTY equipment can reach us Monday through Friday from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM Eastern Time or by visiting us online at www.catalog.usmint.gov. To contact us by email, please reply to this correspondence or send an email to usmint-support@usmcatalog.com.
Thank you for your support of the United States Mint.
United States Mint
Customer Service Center
1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468)
TTY 1-888-321-MINT (6468)
001-1-202-898-6468**
I would not judge demand by this thread.
Only the Peace Dollar for me. Not interested in the rehashed Morgans.
25 coin HHL is their answer to complaints that the dealers are being catered to. The high product limit supports it.
three different sale dates is their answer to an overworked website.
With the possible exception of the Peace, these will likely not be a good money maker for the flipper.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
My understanding is that the thickness will be the same but the amount of silver in each coin will be higher (about .858 ounces instead of .7734).
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I just want to be able to say I have an MS70 Morgan in my collection. I will wait until they start popping up.
Don't quote me on that.
US mint granny bait.... IMHO....at $85 each no worries here as Ill give them a hard pass....I rather spend that on a REAL Morgan even a common date than these..... I wasnt impressed with the gold walker, standing liberty or mercury dime....seems to me that when you own out right the designs and those designs served the country for decades no need to take an iconic design ,and make it look like something out of a Looney tunes production!
No need for cartoon coins!
"That's why I wander and follow La Vie Dansante"
As I previously mentioned, I am not fighting the Mint crowds for these - and 6 times yet! If I decide to buy them (not sure yet), I will get them from a dealer. Yes, it will cost more, but I save myself the grief of fighting with the Mint's web site, where we are blocked at times and treated like criminals. I am done dealing with the Mint on these high-demand issues. I will only deal with them on coins I like where the demand is not that great. They are certainly doing everything in their power to kill my business!
love that the hhl's been lowered to 10 - got a real chance now
I know this isn't the most scientific basis on which to measure chances of any given release, but I always think of the 2018 palladium eagle release w mintage of 15,000 and how that was sold out v quickly, so dividing 175,000 by 10 to get 17,500 makes me feel better abt chances of getting my two-apiece that I'm aiming for, although thinking more over past 24 of picking up 5 of the peace; such a beautiful and unique coin in us numismatic history; would be nice to have e some surplus to give away as gifts
good luck yall ✌🤓🤙
Thank you! You are correct and I was wrong. The new Morgan dollars will have more silver than the ones from 100+ years ago. I can only assume this means that they will be at least as thick as the Morgan dollars from 100+ years ago.
This actually makes me much more interested in these new Morgan dollars and I'll almost certainly buy (or die trying
) all five variants now along with the new Peace dollar. The only thing that would make me more excited about these coins is if they made them with the same metal composition as the old coins.
Yeah
Next law we bug Congress about, we need to be more specific.
Really want them in 90%. Peace in HR.
HR Peace woulda been 🔥👁🔥
I know this is late but I am really impressed with the members who wrote letters and emails to get the HH limit reduced to 10.
Great job!🏋️♂️🏋️♂️🥇🥇🥇🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
it only takes a few minutes
I'd like to se the HHL dropped to 5 or less. Anyone else?
my letter went of Friday.... (forgetting) requesting a 5 HHL.
at least it is 10 now.
are there really 175,000 collectors for each of these? It seemed like selling 25 to 7,000 flippers was destined for a product nightmare one flippers can not sell.
It might be less thick as it takes less silver to have the same total coin weight, which is what is mandated under the law. Honestly the mint should have stuck to 90% silver & 10% copper.
I would like to see all the bots and newbies stand back while all the oldies get first shot!
I haven't seen the actual offer yet. Can someone post a link ?
Okay thanks anyway I found them in the other thread. I don't really care for them.
Artist rendition.
Who are you calling old?
I really wish they used actual photos once there is a production sample available. The artist renditions are OK to a point but actual photos can't be beat.
How can they take a photo of something that hasn't been minted yet.
The offering is a presale, coins wont be minted until after the presale window closes.
Once the product is no longer available for sale what good is a picture?
they may have made trials for them already
Read again what I said
once there is a production sample available
The drawings should only be used until an actual coin is available to photograph. Not every coin sells out in hours or is a pre-sale offering. In fact pre-sale is a rare event for the Mint. Lots coins are available for sale for quite a long time. Even after a sell out I would rather see a photograph than the limited realism of the drawing.
But that's just me. You are not required to agree.
edit to add
What good is a photograph after the product is not available? Really? What good is a photo of your Granny or other relative or friend once they are gone? Or your first car or home. A photo is a detailed representation of a real thing. A drawing is not.
By volume (not by atomic weight), copper is 85.5% as heavy as silver. So in order for the new Morgan/Peace dollars to weigh the same as the earlier ones, the thickness would need to be reduced by about 1.45%. Not enough to be noticeable IMO.
Weight by volume comparison
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
and that is the thickness of the planchet. it would be interesting if they press up the rims to the old thickness, keep the relief the same, and just make the fields thinner.
that's what I'd do.
Everyone write to the Mint and make me head of decisions.
everyone buy yourself some calipers. If you don't like the caliper idea, don't mention that to the Mint.
New Coinworld article:
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/mint-tightens-household-limits-for-2021-silver-dollars?utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Lyris&utm_campaign=DigitalEdition
"onslaught of complaints"
for next time, how many in an onslaught ?
and they've yet to receive my snail mail letter for a 5 HHL
At the current exchange rate, one onslaught equals one-fifth of a bevy.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
If one onslaught equals one-fifth of a bevy, two troupes in a throng incursion would be equivalent to 1/4 of a multitude or half a hoarde.
[Pre-orders will be taken from noon Eastern Time May 24 through 3 p.m. June 7 or until orders exhaust limits for the two privy-marked Morgan dollars.]
Can anyone explain this...so how did this preorder work? Are you telling me that 175,000 of the first two coins ARE NOT now available on Day 1 of sales on 5/24? I'm very confused?
...or are they going to adjust orders downward based on demand...to spread them around to more sellers...which would be fine with me!
They’re just saying that preorder sales will be taken May 24 to June 7 unless order limits are reached sooner than that 13 day period.
My take ...
~ The Mint will start accepting "pre-orders" for 21XC and 21XD on 05/24/21. They will stop accepting "pre-orders" on 06/07/21, or sooner if the product limit of 175,000 have been "pre-sold".
~ These coins will NOT be shipped during the "pre-order" period. Instead, they will begin to ship in OCT.
~ I do not believe that they are going to "adjust orders downward based on demand". In other words, if you successfully place a "pre-order" for 10 units, you should receive 10 units in OCT. This assumes, of course, that there are no order complications (e.g., declined credit card transaction).
It is this. They've done this before.
This creates the possibility that this ends up really undersold. You are going to potentially have months of cancellations.
[[This creates the possibility that this ends up really undersold. You are going to potentially have months of cancellations.]]
Ahh...this would just break my heart....as they skyrocket in value once the final sales are reconciled and most are melted!
Actually, that would be very appropriate for a Morgan...initially getting melted by the millions...and true rarities only becoming apparent years later!
The commemorative issues may give an idea to the sales/cancellation rates for these issues
A new ad from the mint just released:
https://catalog.usmint.gov/2021-morgan-and-peace-silver-dollar-coins/?cm_mmc=ExactTarget--Campaign--20210507MorganAndPeaceTeaserEmail1_Active-_-ExploreCTA&utm_source=Campaign&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_content=ExploreCTA&utm_campaign=20210507MorganAndPeaceTeaserEmail1_Active&cm_mmca1=Marketing&cm_mmca2=Active&cm_mmca3=&cc=MORGANPEACE
I am I for 2 or 3 of each coin,,,, maybe more.
From the front page of Coin World today.
WHAAAT?
The Mint Director emphasized that they are not commemorative coins. What makes a coin commemorative?
https://www.usmint.gov/learn/coin-and-medal-programs/commemorative-coins
Edited to add:
A deeper dive: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44623.pdf
Page 24 specifically addresses the 2021 Morgan & Peace Dollar coins.