Apparently, for Congress - math is hard and debt is just a tool for manipulating their prolifigate spending on whatever they feel like gets them more power & money as kickbacks and payoffs. They are trying to re-define economics. Good luck with that, as they kill their own golden goose, the middle class.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Idk, media and shills keep saying gold is gonna be 1100-1200 before the end of next year. Honestly, there's no way this is grounded in reality. This whole fake paper gold and silver thing is absolutely exploding. The sheer amount of "anti-5k" type disinformation almost makes me see 5k as a reasonable price target.
I think the elite were able to staunch the wound but this is not sustainable.
This will be fought to the bitter end. So strap your butts in and don't fall victim to Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt campaigns. Buy and hold.
The anti-gold, anti-5k, fake low prices media blitz is wild. We are in an economic downturn during a plague with climate change disruptions displacing millions of people and costing billions of dollars. We are devaluing our currency trillions at a time, but our media won't shut up about how well the dollar is performing. They're saying people in other countries want it so bad; they don't, and people in other countries are buying gold.
We are loaded to the brim with pro-USD propaganda in a transforming world. And gold is gonna go down? Or even stay down?
Idk my dudes, I was almost done buying gold for awhile, but the sustained media campaigns denigrating gold just makes me hungry for more. Beat these people at their own game. Buy until they're done buying. We are gonna continue to have peaks and valleys and fear/disinfo campaigns. This was never gonna all pop off at once, but man, when this thing goes completely tits up it is gonna be a doozy of a day. Hold.
Face it, if you live in the USA you are in a dollar environment wherein the people who are vested into dollars simply aren't going to tolerate a dollar crash - and that includes Wall Street, the Fed, Congress and Uncle Sam's easy money minions.
On the flip side, foreign countries aren't interested in US Treasuries now. So as the current situation affects precious metals - it's a standoff and the middle class is smack dab on the receiving end of this endless money creation to buy votes.
The whole thing's a mess, and if you put a gun to my head (hopefully that doesn't happen), I'd still prefer real world precious metals over pieces of paper & electronic vaporware.
The interesting thing is that math is still math, no matter how many bogus derivatives they create in order to manipulate the real world physical metals. All fiat goes to zero, and we're inching closer to the interesting times called out in that ancient Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times".
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
They still mine and refine gold from rocks and dirt for around $1000 an ounce. The rest of the price is a combination of speculation, "collectibility" and postage and handling and profit along the food chain.
foreign countries aren't interested in US Treasuries now
In reality their interest is very high and much higher than just 6 months ago. Where else can they go and get 1.6% for 10 years, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Australia, Great Britain? I suppose China is always an option.
Very few countries have reduced holdings over the last year. Some have added significantly.
As long as Russia, China, JPMorgan, Canada, Switzerland, the Fed and the US gov't keep those big gold bars they still have in their secure vaults, I see no good reason not to do the same.
The gold price varies year to year, but I would rather have physical gold, than a 1 million new Venezuelan Bolivar bank note that currently already can only buy a couple dozen eggs.
Fiat currency works for a long time, until it doesn't.
cohodk, you actually believe the gov.com reporting? Then, what is your take on FASAB 56 - which has been reported by Mark Skidmore and Kathryn Austin Fitts to have made government accountability and expenditures completely opaque?
Explain the recent bump up in interest rates. Is the Fed not doing most of the recent purchasing of Treasuries? There are forensic analyses being done outside your "mainstream" sources that I would consider to be more 100% honest than the NYT.
Even you must realize that gov.com and the banking system are doctoring the numbers beyond comprehension. The "mainstream" media is just part of the team. So is big tech, and they are likewise promoting a narrative that cancels or ignores any opposing data or analyses.
Be careful what you wish for and the outcomes that these organizations are promoting.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
cohodk, you actually believe the gov.com reporting? Then, what is your take on FASAB 56 - which has been reported by Mark Skidmore and Kathryn Austin Fitts to have made government accountability and expenditures completely opaque?
As far as the link i provided i do believe in the mumbers 100%. I see strong demand from froeign govts and entities for US debt.
I have no comment of FASAB 56 ad i havent read it. But i do believe that Skidmore guy is the one who clains he found $20 trillion in unaccounted for govt spending. My opinion of his findings is that he is a quack.
Explain the recent bump up in interest rates. Is the Fed not doing most of the recent purchasing of Treasuries? There are forensic analyses being done outside your "mainstream" sources that I would consider to be more 100% honest than the NYT.
Even you must realize that gov.com and the banking system are doctoring the numbers beyond comprehension. The "mainstream" media is just part of the team. So is big tech, and they are likewise promoting a narrative that cancels or ignores any opposing data or analyses.
Rates on the longer end of the curve can move for many reason. My belief is that rates went up because buyers demanded a higher rate. I dont beleiev there was any selling at all. Its called re-rating or re-pricing.
Ithink you are confusing and conflating many unrelated things here just to rant. In many cases, the tributaries flowing into the main streams are more highly polluted.
Be careful what you wish for and the outcomes that these organizations are promoting.
Explain the recent bump up in interest rates. Is the Fed not doing most of the recent purchasing of Treasuries? There are forensic analyses being done outside your "mainstream" sources that I would consider to be more 100% honest than the NYT.
Have interest rates bumped higher only in the US? What are "your" mainstream sources telling you to think?
Debt Schmebt....people in the US could care less about the debt clock or the total. Trillions...Schmillions...no one would turn down yet another stimulus check....did you see that shot of Kardashians big butt!...what D listers are on Dancing With The Stars this season??.....what did Cardi B tweet about the border...that is what US citizens care about.
Gold completed a 55/56 month FIB run last summer from $1046 to $2074. It takes time to work off such an extended 5 yr run. Figure at least a FIB time retrace of 23,38,50% or 1-2 yrs. My own thoughts are that gold loves symmetry in both price and time. Look back to the 2011-2012 when gold waffled up and down for 13 months before beginning the 2 yr hard down phase into the Dec 2015 low. That 13 months is being retraced right now to get chart symmetry. Now in the early part of month 9. So this 11-13 months is over by late July to Sept. Doesn't mean that will commence the next wave as a 23% time Fib is pretty light.
On the plus side is the $1042 move up. If the chart flips again, that's another $1000 move upward on symmetry to $3000+. Just pointing out the potentials. With $6T-$10T of fresh Money being created, a lot more untapped potential in gold....and even more so in silver that has to recover from a 9 year low back in the March 2020 crash. Silver is barely 1 year into a new bull run. The last one lasted from 2003-2011. And oil experienced a 12 yr low in March 2020 when the futures contract went to a Negative $37/bl. Lots of ground to recover in metals and commodities.
As a basic thumb rule, US gold reserves eventually balance out the sovereign debt. US total debt is $28 TRILL. The amount of US Treasuries around $20 TRILL. The amount of foreign owned Treasuries is $7 TRILL. US Gold holdings (261.5 mill troy oz) is around $500 BILL. That's a factor of 14X short of Sovereign debt. And 56X short total debt. Let's just say that in a complete restructuring of world sovereign debts gold might have to revalue to $25,000/oz to settle it all up. Of course at significantly higher levels than $3K expect capital gains taxes, gold in retirement accounts, and "who" will be "allowed" to own gold to all change drastically to remove it as an option for the masses.
There is no need or goal to match sovereign debt with gold. There is no need to revalue it based on the debt. A day of reckoning (calling in the loan) will never occur for the US as long as it has the world's strongest military, therefore gold is not held nor needed to cover debt. "Why is gold held" is an interesting question. Maybe to buy parts and fuel for that military as a means of last resort.
Sovereign debt gets restructured with every dollar printed, it has unlimited backing as long as the dollar has some value.
There may be "no need" for a sov. debt accounting for gold. But it happened almost exactly to where it needed to go in both 1980 and 2009-2011. No guarantees if it does it a 3rd time. Just making noting of the past. Central Banks keep 30,000 tonnes of it around for something. And China as a nation holds over 20,000 tonnes.
price will continue to rise because inflation is here and it will not go away, and because the FED is promoting negative real rates.
Gold will step up, as it has done for centuries to provide a store of value and and to protect from currency debasement. As always, silver will follow and may even lead.
@derryb said:
price will continue to rise because inflation is here and it will not go away, and because the FED is promoting negative real rates.
Gold will step up, as it has done for centuries to provide a store of value and and to protect from currency debasement. As always, silver will follow and may even lead.
I was onboard until you got to the gutter part. RGDS!
I was referring to the may even lead part. History shows us many things, there have been many speculative bubbles in the past but the Ag never fails to disappoint. She ALWAYS finds her way back to the gutter. But this time is different right?
I haven't bought an ounce of gold since around $1300. Shame on me, one day in the not too distant future we will be talking about how cheap $2,000 gold was. Carry On!
@DoubleEagle59 said:
Be only concerned with how many ounces you own.
Not the 'price' of that ounce.
Dollar cost averaging, the way to go. Been doing it for 16 years! I have everything including years supply of food. Now to make some popcorn and watch the show! Goodby America!
@DoubleEagle59 said:
Be only concerned with how many ounces you own.
Not the 'price' of that ounce.
So it is better to buy (90) 10oz bars or 1 monster box of ASE?
Personally, it wouldn't matter.
More silver is the goal.
Well it does matter. Because as of today, a monster box and 90 bars will require the same number of dollats if purchased from a bullion dealer such as Apmex. Last i checked 900 was greater than 500.
So, if more silver is the goal, would you encourage folk to exchange their high premium silver for lower premium silver?
@DoubleEagle59 said:
Be only concerned with how many ounces you own.
Not the 'price' of that ounce.
So it is better to buy (90) 10oz bars or 1 monster box of ASE?
Personally, it wouldn't matter.
More silver is the goal.
Well it does matter. Because as of today, a monster box and 90 bars will require the same number of dollats if purchased from a bullion dealer such as Apmex. Last i checked 900 was greater than 500.
So, if more silver is the goal, would you encourage folk to exchange their high premium silver for lower premium silver?
I'm a little clueless when it comes to a monster box.
I thought it was 1000 ounces.
If it's 500 ounces, then it would make a big diference and I would definitely opt for the 900 ounces.
Golf is on my mind these days and our Premier of Ontario finally opened the golf courses after a lengthy lockdown, so my concentration on other matters hasn't been quite as sharp lately.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
@derryb said:
FED will be forced to raise interest rates in 2021. Stocks will frown, PMs will smile.
Why? The Fed has telegraphed every interest rate increase for 2 decades. They'll let inflation run for at least a year. Then, maybe taper from $120B bond purchases a month to 'just' $100B. The Fed may not ever meaningfully raise rates again. They only jawbone about it in attempt to make the bubbles a little less bubbly.
Comments
Good move in silver today
Anyone know when the stimulus will deposit? At current rates me and momma can add another 1.62 OZt gift to the stack. Semper!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
The $$$ will start hitting the banks by the end of next week.
@jmski52 said:_
"$1,900 seems like a foregone conclusion at this rate. You may blink and find it at $2,000."
comment was made July 2020.
I blinked & look what happened
Looks like the price didn't proceed at that rate and I don't even remember if gold broke $1,900 at that point.
Last July seems like a long time ago.
I knew it would happen.
I was counting on the $2000 I was promised.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Apparently, for Congress - math is hard and debt is just a tool for manipulating their prolifigate spending on whatever they feel like gets them more power & money as kickbacks and payoffs. They are trying to re-define economics. Good luck with that, as they kill their own golden goose, the middle class.
I knew it would happen.
blitzdude...time to adjust your thread title again? I think $1800 would be appropriate
̶$̶1̶9̶0̶0̶ ̶$̶2̶0̶0̶0̶ ̶$̶2̶5̶0̶0̶ ̶$̶5̶0̶0̶0̶ Gold? $2000 Gold??
I'm stuck wondering which comes first, $1500 or $2000?
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Flip a coin!
either sounds good right now
I think I have it figured out...GOLD is going to go up...or down...but not one should feel certain.
Idk, media and shills keep saying gold is gonna be 1100-1200 before the end of next year. Honestly, there's no way this is grounded in reality. This whole fake paper gold and silver thing is absolutely exploding. The sheer amount of "anti-5k" type disinformation almost makes me see 5k as a reasonable price target.
I think the elite were able to staunch the wound but this is not sustainable.
This will be fought to the bitter end. So strap your butts in and don't fall victim to Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt campaigns. Buy and hold.
The anti-gold, anti-5k, fake low prices media blitz is wild. We are in an economic downturn during a plague with climate change disruptions displacing millions of people and costing billions of dollars. We are devaluing our currency trillions at a time, but our media won't shut up about how well the dollar is performing. They're saying people in other countries want it so bad; they don't, and people in other countries are buying gold.
We are loaded to the brim with pro-USD propaganda in a transforming world. And gold is gonna go down? Or even stay down?
Idk my dudes, I was almost done buying gold for awhile, but the sustained media campaigns denigrating gold just makes me hungry for more. Beat these people at their own game. Buy until they're done buying. We are gonna continue to have peaks and valleys and fear/disinfo campaigns. This was never gonna all pop off at once, but man, when this thing goes completely tits up it is gonna be a doozy of a day. Hold.
Patience. I will be crowned king of the pompous prognosticators!
Loves me some shiny!
Not in my lifetime
Face it, if you live in the USA you are in a dollar environment wherein the people who are vested into dollars simply aren't going to tolerate a dollar crash - and that includes Wall Street, the Fed, Congress and Uncle Sam's easy money minions.
On the flip side, foreign countries aren't interested in US Treasuries now. So as the current situation affects precious metals - it's a standoff and the middle class is smack dab on the receiving end of this endless money creation to buy votes.
The whole thing's a mess, and if you put a gun to my head (hopefully that doesn't happen), I'd still prefer real world precious metals over pieces of paper & electronic vaporware.
The interesting thing is that math is still math, no matter how many bogus derivatives they create in order to manipulate the real world physical metals. All fiat goes to zero, and we're inching closer to the interesting times called out in that ancient Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times".
I knew it would happen.
“ The anti-gold, anti-5k, fake low prices media blitz is wild.”
I’ve been reading the WSJ, Financial Times, NY Times, Economist and others for years, but seem to have missed it.
They still mine and refine gold from rocks and dirt for around $1000 an ounce. The rest of the price is a combination of speculation, "collectibility" and postage and handling and profit along the food chain.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
foreign countries aren't interested in US Treasuries now
In reality their interest is very high and much higher than just 6 months ago. Where else can they go and get 1.6% for 10 years, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Australia, Great Britain? I suppose China is always an option.
Very few countries have reduced holdings over the last year. Some have added significantly.
https://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
As long as Russia, China, JPMorgan, Canada, Switzerland, the Fed and the US gov't keep those big gold bars they still have in their secure vaults, I see no good reason not to do the same.
The gold price varies year to year, but I would rather have physical gold, than a 1 million new Venezuelan Bolivar bank note that currently already can only buy a couple dozen eggs.
Fiat currency works for a long time, until it doesn't.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Those news sources are bots manipulated by "them". If you want the truth you need to go to reddit. Haha. Haha. Haha. Haha
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
"The markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent." John Maynard Keynes
cohodk, you actually believe the gov.com reporting? Then, what is your take on FASAB 56 - which has been reported by Mark Skidmore and Kathryn Austin Fitts to have made government accountability and expenditures completely opaque?
Explain the recent bump up in interest rates. Is the Fed not doing most of the recent purchasing of Treasuries? There are forensic analyses being done outside your "mainstream" sources that I would consider to be more 100% honest than the NYT.
Even you must realize that gov.com and the banking system are doctoring the numbers beyond comprehension. The "mainstream" media is just part of the team. So is big tech, and they are likewise promoting a narrative that cancels or ignores any opposing data or analyses.
Be careful what you wish for and the outcomes that these organizations are promoting.
I knew it would happen.
As far as the link i provided i do believe in the mumbers 100%. I see strong demand from froeign govts and entities for US debt.
I have no comment of FASAB 56 ad i havent read it. But i do believe that Skidmore guy is the one who clains he found $20 trillion in unaccounted for govt spending. My opinion of his findings is that he is a quack.
Rates on the longer end of the curve can move for many reason. My belief is that rates went up because buyers demanded a higher rate. I dont beleiev there was any selling at all. Its called re-rating or re-pricing.
Ithink you are confusing and conflating many unrelated things here just to rant. In many cases, the tributaries flowing into the main streams are more highly polluted.
You have no idea what i wish for.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Have interest rates bumped higher only in the US? What are "your" mainstream sources telling you to think?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
.80 cents away. Next stop $24,895?
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
I'm planning to sell at $21,793
We might just get there with all this money printing and pan-flation.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Still not at $30 Trillion
We, as a country, can do better
Debt Schmebt....people in the US could care less about the debt clock or the total. Trillions...Schmillions...no one would turn down yet another stimulus check....did you see that shot of Kardashians big butt!...what D listers are on Dancing With The Stars this season??.....what did Cardi B tweet about the border...that is what US citizens care about.
Loves me some shiny!
Let's hope it HODLs this time!!!
will it HODL?
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Still got the ADD. Edited for poor focus.
That’s the gold chart
Ha ha ha! Does anybody else here have ADD?!
Gold completed a 55/56 month FIB run last summer from $1046 to $2074. It takes time to work off such an extended 5 yr run. Figure at least a FIB time retrace of 23,38,50% or 1-2 yrs. My own thoughts are that gold loves symmetry in both price and time. Look back to the 2011-2012 when gold waffled up and down for 13 months before beginning the 2 yr hard down phase into the Dec 2015 low. That 13 months is being retraced right now to get chart symmetry. Now in the early part of month 9. So this 11-13 months is over by late July to Sept. Doesn't mean that will commence the next wave as a 23% time Fib is pretty light.
On the plus side is the $1042 move up. If the chart flips again, that's another $1000 move upward on symmetry to $3000+. Just pointing out the potentials. With $6T-$10T of fresh Money being created, a lot more untapped potential in gold....and even more so in silver that has to recover from a 9 year low back in the March 2020 crash. Silver is barely 1 year into a new bull run. The last one lasted from 2003-2011. And oil experienced a 12 yr low in March 2020 when the futures contract went to a Negative $37/bl. Lots of ground to recover in metals and commodities.
As a basic thumb rule, US gold reserves eventually balance out the sovereign debt. US total debt is $28 TRILL. The amount of US Treasuries around $20 TRILL. The amount of foreign owned Treasuries is $7 TRILL. US Gold holdings (261.5 mill troy oz) is around $500 BILL. That's a factor of 14X short of Sovereign debt. And 56X short total debt. Let's just say that in a complete restructuring of world sovereign debts gold might have to revalue to $25,000/oz to settle it all up. Of course at significantly higher levels than $3K expect capital gains taxes, gold in retirement accounts, and "who" will be "allowed" to own gold to all change drastically to remove it as an option for the masses.
There is no need or goal to match sovereign debt with gold. There is no need to revalue it based on the debt. A day of reckoning (calling in the loan) will never occur for the US as long as it has the world's strongest military, therefore gold is not held nor needed to cover debt. "Why is gold held" is an interesting question. Maybe to buy parts and fuel for that military as a means of last resort.
Sovereign debt gets restructured with every dollar printed, it has unlimited backing as long as the dollar has some value.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
There may be "no need" for a sov. debt accounting for gold. But it happened almost exactly to where it needed to go in both 1980 and 2009-2011. No guarantees if it does it a 3rd time. Just making noting of the past. Central Banks keep 30,000 tonnes of it around for something. And China as a nation holds over 20,000 tonnes.
So what I get from the title of this thread is prices go up, and they go down, and then they go up, then down. Who would have thunk it?
price will continue to rise because inflation is here and it will not go away, and because the FED is promoting negative real rates.
Gold will step up, as it has done for centuries to provide a store of value and and to protect from currency debasement. As always, silver will follow and may even lead.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
I was onboard until you got to the gutter part. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
So you don't agree that silver rises along with gold? Library is full of history books.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
I was referring to the may even lead part. History shows us many things, there have been many speculative bubbles in the past but the Ag never fails to disappoint. She ALWAYS finds her way back to the gutter. But this time is different right?
I haven't bought an ounce of gold since around $1300. Shame on me, one day in the not too distant future we will be talking about how cheap $2,000 gold was. Carry On!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Dollar cost averaging, the way to go. Been doing it for 16 years! I have everything including years supply of food. Now to make some popcorn and watch the show! Goodby America!
So it is better to buy (90) 10oz bars or 1 monster box of ASE?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Personally, it wouldn't matter.
More silver is the goal.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Well it does matter. Because as of today, a monster box and 90 bars will require the same number of dollats if purchased from a bullion dealer such as Apmex. Last i checked 900 was greater than 500.
So, if more silver is the goal, would you encourage folk to exchange their high premium silver for lower premium silver?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I'm a little clueless when it comes to a monster box.
I thought it was 1000 ounces.
If it's 500 ounces, then it would make a big diference and I would definitely opt for the 900 ounces.
Golf is on my mind these days and our Premier of Ontario finally opened the golf courses after a lengthy lockdown, so my concentration on other matters hasn't been quite as sharp lately.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
FED will be forced to raise interest rates in 2021. Stocks will frown, PMs will smile.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Why? The Fed has telegraphed every interest rate increase for 2 decades. They'll let inflation run for at least a year. Then, maybe taper from $120B bond purchases a month to 'just' $100B. The Fed may not ever meaningfully raise rates again. They only jawbone about it in attempt to make the bubbles a little less bubbly.