Based upon what we know and don’t know about this virus it would be fair to say life will not be same as we once knew it until we are vaccinated.
I’m disappointed in the arrogance of the statement,” It will take government action to stop us from holding this show.” Would the potential loss of lives not stop you? Thanks for your concern for our lives.
And for people that think they can just go about their lives and not wear masks and cough and sneeze all over the place and not wash their hands must come to realization that they may indeed be the ones spreading the virus.
We have yet to see what the results will be once the lock down is gradually lifted and we have yet to see what the second wave will bring.
Too many unknowns ahead.
It stinks that this is happening to all of us and I hope we can all back to life as we once knew it. I’m looking forward to the day I can safely attend a show, large or small.
@air4mdc said:
Based upon what we know and don’t know about this virus it would be fair to say life will not be same as we once knew it until we are vaccinated.
I’m disappointed in the arrogance of the statement,” It will take government action to stop us from holding this show.” Would the potential loss of lives not stop you? Thanks for your concern for our lives.
And for people that think they can just go about their lives and not wear masks and cough and sneeze all over the place and not wash their hands must come to realization that they may indeed be the ones spreading the virus.
We have yet to see what the results will be once the lock down is gradually lifted and we have yet to see what the second wave will bring.
Too many unknowns ahead.
It stinks that this is happening to all of us and I hope we can all back to life as we once knew it. I’m looking forward to the day I can safely attend a show, large or small.
Agreed. The "It will take government action to stop us from holding this show" was a little too much.
......by definition of a coin show, packed together far more tightly than any social distancing safety precaution might accommodate......
Packed together? LOL. They will be "packed together" at this show far less than your local grocery store. Do you guys still go grocery shopping?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think they would have been much better served to speak to the actions that they would be taking to keep the public and dealers safe in the event that the show continued. Masks required, leveraging total space to expand the show footprint to add width to the aisles and spacing tables further apart, hand sanitizing stations, etc.
I agree with @Boosibri ....The letter could have (and should have) included the precautions/restrictions/accommodations that would be in place for such an event. That would go a long way to ease concerns, at least for the show portion of the event. Of course, there is also the air travel, hotel, restaurant venues that must be considered. Much to be considered by all parties. Cheers, RickO
The Summer Seminar was cancelled because the venue where it is held shut them down
That's the same thing the ANA faces with the show. Until the venue itself cancels the show the ANA is on the hook for the costs of renting the venue, show or no show.
@Zoins said:
Interesting they would keep the show but cancel the Summer Seminar.
There are already about 20 mutations to the virus. Any 'vaccine' will be much like the flu vaccines, about 50% effective. I'm not a doctor or a virologist or epidemiologist, nor am I a movie critic, but there's a good movie you all probably have watched and should watch again. It's a Hitchcock movie called 'Gaslight'. And I'm not a book reviewer either, but there's a good one that we've all read by this guy named Orwell called '1985', or maybe it was '1984'? Remember, 'we're all in this together, alone'. Eastasia is still at war with Oceania.
Successful transactions here and ATS with: jwitten, Rob41281, bajjerfan, cucamongacoin, Jim F., physics-fan3.14, x2rider, Wahoo554, Weather11am, Relaxn, jimineez1, Ronyahski, Bliggity, SurfinxHI, McGrump (thru BAJJERFAN), ms71, Downtown1974, ad4400
@dan_marinelli said:
There are already about 20 mutations to the virus. Any 'vaccine' will be much like the flu vaccines, about 50% effective. I'm not a doctor or a virologist or epidemiologist, nor am I a movie critic, but there's a good movie you all probably have watched and should watch again. It's a Hitchcock movie called 'Gaslight'. And I'm not a book reviewer either, but there's a good one that we've all read by this guy named Orwell called '1985', or maybe it was '1984'? Remember, 'we're all in this together, alone'. Eastasia is still at war with Oceania.
I re-upped with the ANA this year because they had a superdiscounted 5 year renewal, but did so just to be a good citizen in numismatics. I gave up on them last year because they seem to be a society that has no idea what they are doing.
One of the professional societies I belong to cancelled a last week in June conference in Hawaii (5000 attendees), because well, very well-informed folks (er, ah, scientists), with alot of study and debate over 2 months on many conference calls (I was part of them). Given the risk, even 1 month or 2 past the peak, our collective believed there was a) - too much risk, and b) - felt attendance would be a fraction of expected, causing us all kinds of fees (attrition penalties) from hotels, etc. So we worked a deal early enough to get out of it, and did the right thing for the health of our members and cancelled the conference.
ANA? If they continue to go through with this in early August, they are going to have the same issues with health and numbers (and thus attrition penalties) that we had. One has to wonder just what the people that run ANA understand, another foolish and fall flat on your face decision if they go down this line IMO. They still have about 1 month to do a deal to get out of it, before they are locked in and face attrition penalties........
This just shows that too many people don't understand what is going on with this virus and stubbornly go on as it nothing has happened. Folks, something happened, this IS a big deal.
I find this thread to be fascinating. I don’t discount anyone’s opinion, but the consensus sentiment here indicates a level of fear that I have a hard time understanding. I’m not advocating throwing caution to the wind, but my goodness, we aren’t going to be living like this forever. We went from normal to cave-dwelling in about 2 weeks. Going the other direction will take longer, but the show is quite a ways off.
I’d be happy to go, happy to take a flight, happy to stay in a hotel, happy to mingle and interact with others, and I’d be reasonably comfortable doing it without a mask. I’d then be pretty comfortable coming back home and visiting my oldest relatives. But, what do I know - I’m just an MD in a small town in a low-COVID area.
I used to be terrified of rattlesnakes, and it almost kept me from enjoying the outdoors. Literally, I’d avoid the mountains and places they live. They can kill you, obviously and it is possible to step on one without knowing. Then I started looking at actual data, and the chance of getting bitten wasn’t zero, but it was acceptable to my rational brain. My emotional brain was scarcely convinced. Then I saw a few, realized that they just need a little space and respect, and carried on. Once I saw the thing, and dealt with it, the fear was replaced by understanding and respect. My colleagues hang around COVID + patients daily. I still interact with them, carefully, and expect to be fine.
Those of you waiting for a vaccine - it might happen, and I hope it does, but there is a REAL possibility it doesn’t happen at all, or that it happens with only partial effectiveness. The common cold is caused by other coronaviruses (and others) and you all know how successful we’ve been at eliminating that one.
As for the show - it probably won’t happen, but it could, safely, if people would allow it to. Unhealthy older people probably need to be careful, and yes, sadly that demographic hits our hobby squarely. So, we’ll see, but we will get past this. Brave souls will lead the way, almost all of them will be OK, and the rest will follow, eventually.
Colorado College cancelled all summer events, and the Summer Seminar was a casualty of this. If the show is cancelled in August, it will be for a similar reason -- the state of Pennsylvania forbidding conventions.
Nothing is really going to change until we have a vaccine. We will be in lockdowns (on and off) for another year. Maybe by next summer things will start going back to "normal" if the Oxford Vaccine or others work well.
If they cannot create a vaccine that works (or works safely) then the hope would be immunity from the virus lasts a very long time - then herd immunity may work (although alot of people will probably die as this is "achieved"). If the immunity is short (3 months as in some cold viruses) then we are probably screwed and will just have to suffer with it. Probably masks/haz mat type suits for essential workers and online schooling, Working from home, etc.
@amwldcoin said:
The Summer Seminar was cancelled because the venue where it is held shut them down
That's the same thing the ANA faces with the show. Until the venue itself cancels the show the ANA is on the hook for the costs of renting the venue, show or no show.
@Zoins said:
Interesting they would keep the show but cancel the Summer Seminar.
This. Having the State of Pennsylvania, the City of Pittsburgh or the venue itself cancel the show will be of considerable advantage to the ANA. Personally I consider the likelihood of the show happening to be extremely low, but it would be better for the ANA if somebody else pulls the trigger.
As has been said, many collectors and dealers are somewhat older. I and many others have health issues that could make getting infected fatal. I might go, but it would depend upon the state of the Pandemic at the time and any significant medical advances between now and then.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@ms70 said:
Personally I don't think we'll see normal again until there's a vaccine.
And if there's no vaccine? They weren't able to make one for SARS (of which Covid-19 is one, SARS Cov-2), or MERS, or HIV.
"They" (at least two academic research labs) were working on a SARS vaccine during and shortly after the outbreak. Then funding stopped because "others" thought there was no longer a need for a SARS vaccine. It's not that "they" could not make a vaccine, but the research was stopped short ... probably because the "others" were philatalists and not numismatists (to keep it coin kosher).
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
They do realize that these shows cater to a skewed population pool that is enriched for above average to very much above average risk folks and that these highly susceptible folks will be, by definition of a coin show, packed together far more tightly than any social distancing safety precaution might accommodate and face-to-face time will be quite high and that all these susceptible folks engaging in high risk activities will be in an enclosed area over the course of several days and will have to get to the meeting place largely by air travel and will need to stay in hotels and typically eat out in crowds.
They realize that run-on sentence, right?
They likely don't care. So as long as they keep your money and don't have to refund it, they couldn't care less if you die.
This perception can't be good for the ANA.
They are SO tone death that it doesn’t even register. The ANA operates like its still in 1996.
Their ideals are unimaginative and border on lazy. The ANA needs to be blown up and start fresh with freaky fresh ideas. Of course you will need fresh blood to pull this off backed with technology.
mark
Remember ... marijuana is legal in Colorado.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
The PA governor has extended the stay at home order until June 8th and is already letting some of the less densely populated areas open sooner. Since the WFOM is two months after that, I'm not surprised that the show is still on. Like others have said, there is probably an escape clause in booking the convention hall with no penalties to the ANA if the show is cancelled because of means beyond its control.
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
@air4mdc said:
Based upon what we know and don’t know about this virus it would be fair to say life will not be same as we once knew it until we are vaccinated.
I’m disappointed in the arrogance of the statement,” It will take government action to stop us from holding this show.” Would the potential loss of lives not stop you? Thanks for your concern for our lives.
And for people that think they can just go about their lives and not wear masks and cough and sneeze all over the place and not wash their hands must come to realization that they may indeed be the ones spreading the virus.
We have yet to see what the results will be once the lock down is gradually lifted and we have yet to see what the second wave will bring.
Too many unknowns ahead.
It stinks that this is happening to all of us and I hope we can all back to life as we once knew it. I’m looking forward to the day I can safely attend a show, large or small.
Agreed. The "It will take government action to stop us from holding this show" was a little too much.
Hey ANA, that statement sounds super political
So you don't want 50% of the population to be in your organization ..... ??? Good Luck with that. Do not send me an application.
The safest place you'd be is on that plane. The average plane is now flying with 10 people and the air is constantly sterilized.
You WOULD be safer at that show than at the average WalMart.
People with underlying health conditions may be facing a long hard several years. People in nursing homes could be facing 2 years with no visitors, that makes me sad. I think the rest of society could be tiered/segmented by health level and age...it ain't fair, but Covid-19 don't care.
In today's environment, I think at least 90% of the science reported is based purely on politics.
There are currently 2 kinds of people in this country today. Those who what to be free to live as the founders intended, and those who want to tell everyone else how to live. Which group you are in speaks volumes about you.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Well, even during the Revolution, there were about 1/3 patriots, 1/3 loyalists, and 1/3 who didn't care. Folding politics into everything else has been with us since at least as far back as the we have written records.
Read your local newspapers and you will find that teachers, nurses, police, are all dying because once you reach the stage that you need a ventilator, your chances of survival are under 30%
So it's not just us oldies over 60 that are going to be sacrificed in the name of "freedom to go shopping for coins"....it's your children and brothers and sisters as well.
I’ve been working through the lockdown. My wife’s been working from home. Because I am out everyday I also do any outside chores. Shopping, post office etc.
I would not travel to go to the ANA.
Not worth the risk. If it were in my town I would consider it.
I’m not a Dr. so I’ll have to defer to those that do speak out and to my own personal anecdotes.
A person I work with daily tested positive for Covid about 4 weeks ago. His girlfriend was in the medical field and she was exposed at work. Once he found out she had symptoms he self quarantined. Everyone in our shop was around him 5 days before he started with symptoms.
Now 4 weeks later he and everyone in his household has recovered and been cleared for work. The treatment he was given, Tylenol, go home and if the breathing gets too difficult come to the hospital. He said it was a bit scary with shortness of breath but after a couple days it started getting better.
I have to admit once I found out I was a bit nervous and limited my outside trips. Started ordering more food online etc.
We hear stories of all the unfortunate people who have to be hospitalized and that is sad, but we don’t hear of all the people who have mild symptoms and or moderate symptoms that work through the virus.
I get that the lockdowns were there to keep the healthcare system from overloading. But the Virus has not stopped spreading. They are saying in NY 66% of new hospitalizations are from people who have been on stay at home orders. Not from the essential workers who are out every day.
I didn’t need the CDC to tell me that I should wash my hands and not cough and sneeze in people. I thought that was common courtesy and hygiene. Guess not.
_The safest place you'd be is on that plane. The average plane is now flying with 10 people and the air is constantly sterilized.
You WOULD be safer at that show than at the average WalMart._
Boy, have you got that right! I was on a plane recently and there were only 14 people on the flight and the airlines are paranoid about precautions. On the other hand, I was in the local Walmart yesterday and less than half the customers were wearing masks (yes, I had mine on along with hand sanitizer in my pocket). What really grossed me out was using the restroom and, while carefully washing my hands, some fat redneck comes in with no mask, uses the restroom, and walks out without washing his hands. Yeah, I'd rather be on a plane!
I would imagine they have to say this and wait for venue to cancel to get the refund. No way there will be a show in my opinion, even if legally allowable, I see no way this will be profitable. Personally I feel if people want to put themselves at risk go for it, but I feel no where near enough people will go to attempt a real show.
My profession basically guarantees that I will get this if I go to work, I basically get spit on all day long. Currently I am mandated to see my emergency patients and cannot legally see elective (things that make me any money). So currently I see 3-5 people a day, loose money each day seeing these patients and take a risk of getting sick. I am really getting frustrated and fearful for what the next few years look like.
@Justacommeman said:
Plus most of us would have to fly to get there. I’m not sitting on a plane for 4. 5 hours breathing in that air. Using the public bathroom? Hopping in an Uber? Hotel rooms? No thanks. Not for a coin show.
Just going to point out that airplane air is very well filtered and clean. Outside of someone within a few feet of you (maybe a row or two) having something and shedding it through breathing/coughing/sneezing, you're extremely unlikely to catch anything someone on the plane has. Their air won't make it to you.
They do realize that these shows cater to a skewed population pool that is enriched for above average to very much above average risk folks and that these highly susceptible folks will be, by definition of a coin show, packed together far more tightly than any social distancing safety precaution might accommodate and face-to-face time will be quite high and that all these susceptible folks engaging in high risk activities will be in an enclosed area over the course of several days and will have to get to the meeting place largely by air travel and will need to stay in hotels and typically eat out in crowds.
IF it's a go, and that's a BIG IF,
I'll be there. I too run into burning buildings ( 42 years ) AND deal with Covid19 ( full time paramedic 23 years ) I have been tested more than once NEGATIVE. Most likely be tested again before Pittsburgh. Yes I'll be wearing a mask, hand sanitizer in my pocket and social distancing as much as possible. Life goes on.
Agreed, but some jurisdictions are attributing all " suspect " deaths to Covid19. The numbers are skewed. How much ? Impossible to know. Have a close friend who's mother passed while a resident of a nursing home. Death certificate states Covid19. No symptoms, no test. Has to do with reimbursement from the Feds. We're not testing deceased here. New York state doing the same thing. ( I'm in Ohio )
The shelter in place or safer at home mandates to me are equivalent to a bomb shelter in England WW2 or a tornado shelter in the Midwest. It just that the pandemic shelter is several months long, not just one night and that ratchets up the difficulty level. People standing in close groups without protection and mingling look like someone standing next to a tornado screaming Liberty! Limited, carefully protected interactions are the way forward. Let one guy pop his head out of the foxhole not everyone at once.
HARRISBURG — State officials will allow 13 counties in the Pittsburgh region to ease coronavirus-related restrictions on businesses and residents, a coveted step toward reopening that took effect Friday in much of northwest and north-central Pennsylvania.
Gov. Tom Wolf is expected to announce Friday that Allegheny, Armstrong, Bedford, Blair, Butler, Cambria, Fayette, Fulton, Greene, Indiana, Somerset, Washington, and Westmoreland Counties will be able move into the “yellow phase” of his tiered reopening plan on May 15, an administration official said.
They will join 24 counties that were previously given the go-ahead to loosen some restrictions.
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
I work a 24 hour shift, off 48 and back again. Anything needed, I stop on the way home ( mask on, social distancing ) I come home, strip, uniform in the washer. Straight to the shower. Don't leave unless a fire call. IMO things will be different by August. IF it's worse, I won't be going to Pittsburgh. If not, I'll be there.
As chief of our F.D. all my guys have PPE on AT ALL TIMES. NO EXCEPTIONS. As for the naysayers who refuse to wear a mask in public, that's your decision but stay away from me or we'll have a problem. Please everyone stay safe.
@2ndCharter said:
_The safest place you'd be is on that plane. The average plane is now flying with 10 people and the air is constantly sterilized.
You WOULD be safer at that show than at the average WalMart._
Boy, have you got that right! I was on a plane recently and there were only 14 people on the flight and the airlines are paranoid about precautions. On the other hand, I was in the local Walmart yesterday and less than half the customers were wearing masks (yes, I had mine on along with hand sanitizer in my pocket). What really grossed me out was using the restroom and, while carefully washing my hands, some fat redneck comes in with no mask, uses the restroom, and walks out without washing his hands. Yeah, I'd rather be on a plane!
Well that maybe true now it may not be true in August as more things open up. Planes would naturally be fuller.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
......by definition of a coin show, packed together far more tightly than any social distancing safety precaution might accommodate......
Packed together? LOL. They will be "packed together" at this show far less than your local grocery store. Do you guys still go grocery shopping?
Yes, typically 2-3 times a week. All of our local grocery stores (Northern CA) have now imposed strict limits on the number of shoppers allowed inside at any one time. There are typically lines outside of people waiting to get in. The aisles are also marked with "one way" directional signs to avoid people with carts intersecting and jamming up traffic. Also floor markers have been laid down at 6' intervals leading to the checkout counters to keep people spaced from each other. There are plexiglass barriers between the cashier and customer. There is a full-time staffer charged with disinfecting carts and baskets, and hand wipes are available at the entrance. Finally, you won't be let in without a mask.
I feel reasonably safe going shopping under the circumstances. I'm not sure coin show attendees would be willing to submit to or observe such restrictions, however. The last show I attended (FUN 2020) was far more densely packed than any local grocery store I shop at. FWIW.
Too early to decide for sure, a full three months out. Let's see if by then we have reliable antibody testing, more effective preventative measures and better treatments. Let's also see if by then the Pirates are playing at PNC Park, the Steelers are having a pre-season at Heinz Field, and if Rivers Casino is operating, and what rules and restrictions are in place.
@Tom147 said:
As chief of our F.D. all my guys have PPE on AT ALL TIMES. NO EXCEPTIONS. As for the naysayers who refuse to wear a mask in public, that's your decision but stay away from me or we'll have a problem. Please everyone stay safe.
Well stated.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I am not going to let the virus infringe on my civil liberties. We could all die at any point (heart attack, car accident, plane crash, etc). If I want to take the risk of getting COVID-19 and dying, that's my problem. The news is just a bunch of elites trying to prevent me from exercising my constitutional right to do and say whatever I want.
Of course, I am kidding. The carelessness and selfishness of attending a coin show in August is beyond comprehension. There are plenty of ways to transact safely online, whether it's through eBay, auction houses, or trusted dealers with proper 21st century infrastructure. Take advantage.
Undoubtedly, the ANA is waiting for the city or venue to cancel, which is inevitable.
I’m excited for things to get back to normal. I spend my day treating patients with COVID. After this spring, which feels like it’s going on the the last 5 years, I’m anxious to take some time off, go on vacation, spend time around my family without worrying that I’m carrying germs. I want normalcy. I want to go to a coin show. I just don’t think it’ll be there by this summer.
The situation remains touch and go. That’s going to continue for a few months. Future predictions are very difficult. People are still getting sick but the community spread is way down from where it was. But as things open on a limited basis we have to see if there are additional surges of cases. Or if there are new hotspots of activity.
Overall community immunity is in most places still very low. Large conventions to me still seem for the near future like a bad idea.
It’s rare that we actually mean this when we say this frequently overused statement, but this outbreak really is “unprecedented”.
@QCCoinGuy said:
I am not going to let the virus infringe on my civil liberties. We could all die at any point (heart attack, car accident, plane crash, etc). If I want to take the risk of getting COVID-19 and dying, that's my problem. The news is just a bunch of elites trying to prevent me from exercising my constitutional right to do and say whatever I want.
Of course, I am kidding. The carelessness and selfishness of attending a coin show in August is beyond comprehension. There are plenty of ways to transact safely online, whether it's through eBay, auction houses, or trusted dealers with proper 21st century infrastructure. Take advantage.
Undoubtedly, the ANA is waiting for the city or venue to cancel, which is inevitable.
I bit hard on that and was already formulating a rebuttal as I was reading. Well played sir
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
>
The carelessness and selfishness of attending a coin show in August is beyond comprehension.
>
3 months from now all states will have various degrees of ‘reopening’ well underway. Some states may have already reopened to a degree and then locked down again amid spikes in Corona. And of course there will inevitably be spikes as people emerge from their homes.
Per a number of medical articles on the subject: When trying to account for the huge number of current suspected asymptomatic cases, the fatality rate for Corona likely currently falls somewhere between .3-.8%......or, 3-8 times as deadly as the flu. Put another way, when accounting for asymptomatic cases, it’s estimated that 99.2 - 99.7% of those infected with Corona survive.
When a Corona vaccine is developed it will work for the majority but not everyone, just like the flu vaccine does not 100% protect.
Corona is here to stay, just like the flu is here to stay. For the rest of our lives.
So at some point everyone will decide whether they’re venturing out, or not....now, 3 months from now, 3 years from now......
If the ANA show proceeds, and it’s all done legally, more power to them!....and I hope those that attend have a great show. 😎
Comments
There will be a vaccine, it's just a question of when.
Based upon what we know and don’t know about this virus it would be fair to say life will not be same as we once knew it until we are vaccinated.
I’m disappointed in the arrogance of the statement,” It will take government action to stop us from holding this show.” Would the potential loss of lives not stop you? Thanks for your concern for our lives.
And for people that think they can just go about their lives and not wear masks and cough and sneeze all over the place and not wash their hands must come to realization that they may indeed be the ones spreading the virus.
We have yet to see what the results will be once the lock down is gradually lifted and we have yet to see what the second wave will bring.
Too many unknowns ahead.
It stinks that this is happening to all of us and I hope we can all back to life as we once knew it. I’m looking forward to the day I can safely attend a show, large or small.
Agreed. The "It will take government action to stop us from holding this show" was a little too much.
Packed together? LOL. They will be "packed together" at this show far less than your local grocery store. Do you guys still go grocery shopping?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think they would have been much better served to speak to the actions that they would be taking to keep the public and dealers safe in the event that the show continued. Masks required, leveraging total space to expand the show footprint to add width to the aisles and spacing tables further apart, hand sanitizing stations, etc.
Latin American Collection
okay, I'll say it:
I am dieing to go
BHNC #203
I agree with @Boosibri ....The letter could have (and should have) included the precautions/restrictions/accommodations that would be in place for such an event. That would go a long way to ease concerns, at least for the show portion of the event. Of course, there is also the air travel, hotel, restaurant venues that must be considered. Much to be considered by all parties. Cheers, RickO
The Summer Seminar was cancelled because the venue where it is held shut them down
That's the same thing the ANA faces with the show. Until the venue itself cancels the show the ANA is on the hook for the costs of renting the venue, show or no show.
Mingle until you die. Every day there are new cases in this county so people are getting it from someone somewhere.
There are already about 20 mutations to the virus. Any 'vaccine' will be much like the flu vaccines, about 50% effective. I'm not a doctor or a virologist or epidemiologist, nor am I a movie critic, but there's a good movie you all probably have watched and should watch again. It's a Hitchcock movie called 'Gaslight'. And I'm not a book reviewer either, but there's a good one that we've all read by this guy named Orwell called '1985', or maybe it was '1984'? Remember, 'we're all in this together, alone'. Eastasia is still at war with Oceania.
Successful transactions here and ATS with: jwitten, Rob41281, bajjerfan, cucamongacoin, Jim F., physics-fan3.14, x2rider, Wahoo554, Weather11am, Relaxn, jimineez1, Ronyahski, Bliggity, SurfinxHI, McGrump (thru BAJJERFAN), ms71, Downtown1974, ad4400
It is 1984
Latin American Collection
I re-upped with the ANA this year because they had a superdiscounted 5 year renewal, but did so just to be a good citizen in numismatics. I gave up on them last year because they seem to be a society that has no idea what they are doing.
One of the professional societies I belong to cancelled a last week in June conference in Hawaii (5000 attendees), because well, very well-informed folks (er, ah, scientists), with alot of study and debate over 2 months on many conference calls (I was part of them). Given the risk, even 1 month or 2 past the peak, our collective believed there was a) - too much risk, and b) - felt attendance would be a fraction of expected, causing us all kinds of fees (attrition penalties) from hotels, etc. So we worked a deal early enough to get out of it, and did the right thing for the health of our members and cancelled the conference.
ANA? If they continue to go through with this in early August, they are going to have the same issues with health and numbers (and thus attrition penalties) that we had. One has to wonder just what the people that run ANA understand, another foolish and fall flat on your face decision if they go down this line IMO. They still have about 1 month to do a deal to get out of it, before they are locked in and face attrition penalties........
This just shows that too many people don't understand what is going on with this virus and stubbornly go on as it nothing has happened. Folks, something happened, this IS a big deal.
Best, SH
I find this thread to be fascinating. I don’t discount anyone’s opinion, but the consensus sentiment here indicates a level of fear that I have a hard time understanding. I’m not advocating throwing caution to the wind, but my goodness, we aren’t going to be living like this forever. We went from normal to cave-dwelling in about 2 weeks. Going the other direction will take longer, but the show is quite a ways off.
I’d be happy to go, happy to take a flight, happy to stay in a hotel, happy to mingle and interact with others, and I’d be reasonably comfortable doing it without a mask. I’d then be pretty comfortable coming back home and visiting my oldest relatives. But, what do I know - I’m just an MD in a small town in a low-COVID area.
I used to be terrified of rattlesnakes, and it almost kept me from enjoying the outdoors. Literally, I’d avoid the mountains and places they live. They can kill you, obviously and it is possible to step on one without knowing. Then I started looking at actual data, and the chance of getting bitten wasn’t zero, but it was acceptable to my rational brain. My emotional brain was scarcely convinced. Then I saw a few, realized that they just need a little space and respect, and carried on. Once I saw the thing, and dealt with it, the fear was replaced by understanding and respect. My colleagues hang around COVID + patients daily. I still interact with them, carefully, and expect to be fine.
Those of you waiting for a vaccine - it might happen, and I hope it does, but there is a REAL possibility it doesn’t happen at all, or that it happens with only partial effectiveness. The common cold is caused by other coronaviruses (and others) and you all know how successful we’ve been at eliminating that one.
As for the show - it probably won’t happen, but it could, safely, if people would allow it to. Unhealthy older people probably need to be careful, and yes, sadly that demographic hits our hobby squarely. So, we’ll see, but we will get past this. Brave souls will lead the way, almost all of them will be OK, and the rest will follow, eventually.
Colorado College cancelled all summer events, and the Summer Seminar was a casualty of this. If the show is cancelled in August, it will be for a similar reason -- the state of Pennsylvania forbidding conventions.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Nothing is really going to change until we have a vaccine. We will be in lockdowns (on and off) for another year. Maybe by next summer things will start going back to "normal" if the Oxford Vaccine or others work well.
If they cannot create a vaccine that works (or works safely) then the hope would be immunity from the virus lasts a very long time - then herd immunity may work (although alot of people will probably die as this is "achieved"). If the immunity is short (3 months as in some cold viruses) then we are probably screwed and will just have to suffer with it. Probably masks/haz mat type suits for essential workers and online schooling, Working from home, etc.
This. Having the State of Pennsylvania, the City of Pittsburgh or the venue itself cancel the show will be of considerable advantage to the ANA. Personally I consider the likelihood of the show happening to be extremely low, but it would be better for the ANA if somebody else pulls the trigger.
As has been said, many collectors and dealers are somewhat older. I and many others have health issues that could make getting infected fatal. I might go, but it would depend upon the state of the Pandemic at the time and any significant medical advances between now and then.
"They" (at least two academic research labs) were working on a SARS vaccine during and shortly after the outbreak. Then funding stopped because "others" thought there was no longer a need for a SARS vaccine. It's not that "they" could not make a vaccine, but the research was stopped short ... probably because the "others" were philatalists and not numismatists (to keep it coin kosher).
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Remember ... marijuana is legal in Colorado.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
The PA governor has extended the stay at home order until June 8th and is already letting some of the less densely populated areas open sooner. Since the WFOM is two months after that, I'm not surprised that the show is still on. Like others have said, there is probably an escape clause in booking the convention hall with no penalties to the ANA if the show is cancelled because of means beyond its control.
If the ANA holds the show and any of you decide to attend ... please be safe. We don't need to lose any of you.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Hey ANA, that statement sounds super political
So you don't want 50% of the population to be in your organization ..... ??? Good Luck with that. Do not send me an application.
If it were in Atlanta I would go. If I lived in PA I'd go.
The safest place you'd be is on that plane. The average plane is now flying with 10 people and the air is constantly sterilized.
You WOULD be safer at that show than at the average WalMart.
People with underlying health conditions may be facing a long hard several years. People in nursing homes could be facing 2 years with no visitors, that makes me sad. I think the rest of society could be tiered/segmented by health level and age...it ain't fair, but Covid-19 don't care.
In today's environment, I think at least 90% of the science reported is based purely on politics.
There are currently 2 kinds of people in this country today. Those who what to be free to live as the founders intended, and those who want to tell everyone else how to live. Which group you are in speaks volumes about you.
Well, even during the Revolution, there were about 1/3 patriots, 1/3 loyalists, and 1/3 who didn't care. Folding politics into everything else has been with us since at least as far back as the we have written records.
Read your local newspapers and you will find that teachers, nurses, police, are all dying because once you reach the stage that you need a ventilator, your chances of survival are under 30%
So it's not just us oldies over 60 that are going to be sacrificed in the name of "freedom to go shopping for coins"....it's your children and brothers and sisters as well.
Commems and Early Type
I for the life of me can not understand why this 100-year event and a horrible contagious virus has become political.
We are all in this together and should be working together,
The denial of science, statistics, graphs, and math just blows me away, so sad
I’ve been working through the lockdown. My wife’s been working from home. Because I am out everyday I also do any outside chores. Shopping, post office etc.
I would not travel to go to the ANA.
Not worth the risk. If it were in my town I would consider it.
I’m not a Dr. so I’ll have to defer to those that do speak out and to my own personal anecdotes.
A person I work with daily tested positive for Covid about 4 weeks ago. His girlfriend was in the medical field and she was exposed at work. Once he found out she had symptoms he self quarantined. Everyone in our shop was around him 5 days before he started with symptoms.
Now 4 weeks later he and everyone in his household has recovered and been cleared for work. The treatment he was given, Tylenol, go home and if the breathing gets too difficult come to the hospital. He said it was a bit scary with shortness of breath but after a couple days it started getting better.
I have to admit once I found out I was a bit nervous and limited my outside trips. Started ordering more food online etc.
We hear stories of all the unfortunate people who have to be hospitalized and that is sad, but we don’t hear of all the people who have mild symptoms and or moderate symptoms that work through the virus.
I get that the lockdowns were there to keep the healthcare system from overloading. But the Virus has not stopped spreading. They are saying in NY 66% of new hospitalizations are from people who have been on stay at home orders. Not from the essential workers who are out every day.
I didn’t need the CDC to tell me that I should wash my hands and not cough and sneeze in people. I thought that was common courtesy and hygiene. Guess not.
My Ebay Store
_The safest place you'd be is on that plane. The average plane is now flying with 10 people and the air is constantly sterilized.
You WOULD be safer at that show than at the average WalMart._
Boy, have you got that right! I was on a plane recently and there were only 14 people on the flight and the airlines are paranoid about precautions. On the other hand, I was in the local Walmart yesterday and less than half the customers were wearing masks (yes, I had mine on along with hand sanitizer in my pocket). What really grossed me out was using the restroom and, while carefully washing my hands, some fat redneck comes in with no mask, uses the restroom, and walks out without washing his hands. Yeah, I'd rather be on a plane!
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I would imagine they have to say this and wait for venue to cancel to get the refund. No way there will be a show in my opinion, even if legally allowable, I see no way this will be profitable. Personally I feel if people want to put themselves at risk go for it, but I feel no where near enough people will go to attempt a real show.
My profession basically guarantees that I will get this if I go to work, I basically get spit on all day long. Currently I am mandated to see my emergency patients and cannot legally see elective (things that make me any money). So currently I see 3-5 people a day, loose money each day seeing these patients and take a risk of getting sick. I am really getting frustrated and fearful for what the next few years look like.
Just going to point out that airplane air is very well filtered and clean. Outside of someone within a few feet of you (maybe a row or two) having something and shedding it through breathing/coughing/sneezing, you're extremely unlikely to catch anything someone on the plane has. Their air won't make it to you.
Don't forget everything at a show is touched
They want to be told it is cancelled so it is to there advantage financially.
I don't see the show happening sadly.
what Justacommeman said in his first post............................
IF it's a go, and that's a BIG IF,
I'll be there. I too run into burning buildings ( 42 years ) AND deal with Covid19 ( full time paramedic 23 years ) I have been tested more than once NEGATIVE. Most likely be tested again before Pittsburgh. Yes I'll be wearing a mask, hand sanitizer in my pocket and social distancing as much as possible. Life goes on.
@Tom147
Well said. You, sir, have seen the rattlesnake.
Math, for those who understand things this way:
If you died in the US during the past 3 months, statistically there is an 11% chance you died of COVID-19.
Agreed, but some jurisdictions are attributing all " suspect " deaths to Covid19. The numbers are skewed. How much ? Impossible to know. Have a close friend who's mother passed while a resident of a nursing home. Death certificate states Covid19. No symptoms, no test. Has to do with reimbursement from the Feds. We're not testing deceased here. New York state doing the same thing. ( I'm in Ohio )
The shelter in place or safer at home mandates to me are equivalent to a bomb shelter in England WW2 or a tornado shelter in the Midwest. It just that the pandemic shelter is several months long, not just one night and that ratchets up the difficulty level. People standing in close groups without protection and mingling look like someone standing next to a tornado screaming Liberty! Limited, carefully protected interactions are the way forward. Let one guy pop his head out of the foxhole not everyone at once.
Just in:
HARRISBURG — State officials will allow 13 counties in the Pittsburgh region to ease coronavirus-related restrictions on businesses and residents, a coveted step toward reopening that took effect Friday in much of northwest and north-central Pennsylvania.
Gov. Tom Wolf is expected to announce Friday that Allegheny, Armstrong, Bedford, Blair, Butler, Cambria, Fayette, Fulton, Greene, Indiana, Somerset, Washington, and Westmoreland Counties will be able move into the “yellow phase” of his tiered reopening plan on May 15, an administration official said.
They will join 24 counties that were previously given the go-ahead to loosen some restrictions.
I work a 24 hour shift, off 48 and back again. Anything needed, I stop on the way home ( mask on, social distancing ) I come home, strip, uniform in the washer. Straight to the shower. Don't leave unless a fire call. IMO things will be different by August. IF it's worse, I won't be going to Pittsburgh. If not, I'll be there.
As chief of our F.D. all my guys have PPE on AT ALL TIMES. NO EXCEPTIONS. As for the naysayers who refuse to wear a mask in public, that's your decision but stay away from me or we'll have a problem. Please everyone stay safe.
I will wait for the estate sales of those that attend and continue to buy on line lol
Kennedys are my quest...
Well that maybe true now it may not be true in August as more things open up. Planes would naturally be fuller.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Just because restrictions are relaxed doesn't mean they're not going to be tightened again. This is very much up in the air.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Yes, typically 2-3 times a week. All of our local grocery stores (Northern CA) have now imposed strict limits on the number of shoppers allowed inside at any one time. There are typically lines outside of people waiting to get in. The aisles are also marked with "one way" directional signs to avoid people with carts intersecting and jamming up traffic. Also floor markers have been laid down at 6' intervals leading to the checkout counters to keep people spaced from each other. There are plexiglass barriers between the cashier and customer. There is a full-time staffer charged with disinfecting carts and baskets, and hand wipes are available at the entrance. Finally, you won't be let in without a mask.
I feel reasonably safe going shopping under the circumstances. I'm not sure coin show attendees would be willing to submit to or observe such restrictions, however. The last show I attended (FUN 2020) was far more densely packed than any local grocery store I shop at. FWIW.
Too early to decide for sure, a full three months out. Let's see if by then we have reliable antibody testing, more effective preventative measures and better treatments. Let's also see if by then the Pirates are playing at PNC Park, the Steelers are having a pre-season at Heinz Field, and if Rivers Casino is operating, and what rules and restrictions are in place.
Well stated.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I am not going to let the virus infringe on my civil liberties. We could all die at any point (heart attack, car accident, plane crash, etc). If I want to take the risk of getting COVID-19 and dying, that's my problem. The news is just a bunch of elites trying to prevent me from exercising my constitutional right to do and say whatever I want.
Of course, I am kidding. The carelessness and selfishness of attending a coin show in August is beyond comprehension. There are plenty of ways to transact safely online, whether it's through eBay, auction houses, or trusted dealers with proper 21st century infrastructure. Take advantage.
Undoubtedly, the ANA is waiting for the city or venue to cancel, which is inevitable.
Dealing in Canadian and American coins and historical medals.
I’m excited for things to get back to normal. I spend my day treating patients with COVID. After this spring, which feels like it’s going on the the last 5 years, I’m anxious to take some time off, go on vacation, spend time around my family without worrying that I’m carrying germs. I want normalcy. I want to go to a coin show. I just don’t think it’ll be there by this summer.
The situation remains touch and go. That’s going to continue for a few months. Future predictions are very difficult. People are still getting sick but the community spread is way down from where it was. But as things open on a limited basis we have to see if there are additional surges of cases. Or if there are new hotspots of activity.
Overall community immunity is in most places still very low. Large conventions to me still seem for the near future like a bad idea.
It’s rare that we actually mean this when we say this frequently overused statement, but this outbreak really is “unprecedented”.
I bit hard on that and was already formulating a rebuttal as I was reading. Well played sir
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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The carelessness and selfishness of attending a coin show in August is beyond comprehension.
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3 months from now all states will have various degrees of ‘reopening’ well underway. Some states may have already reopened to a degree and then locked down again amid spikes in Corona. And of course there will inevitably be spikes as people emerge from their homes.
Per a number of medical articles on the subject: When trying to account for the huge number of current suspected asymptomatic cases, the fatality rate for Corona likely currently falls somewhere between .3-.8%......or, 3-8 times as deadly as the flu. Put another way, when accounting for asymptomatic cases, it’s estimated that 99.2 - 99.7% of those infected with Corona survive.
When a Corona vaccine is developed it will work for the majority but not everyone, just like the flu vaccine does not 100% protect.
Corona is here to stay, just like the flu is here to stay. For the rest of our lives.
So at some point everyone will decide whether they’re venturing out, or not....now, 3 months from now, 3 years from now......
If the ANA show proceeds, and it’s all done legally, more power to them!....and I hope those that attend have a great show. 😎