My daughter runs a non-profit social work agency, people dying from shutdown-induced increases in suicide rates and things like domestic violence are not a joke. Increases in suicides are currently projected to exceed Covid deaths by 3X. She and her team are all still working as essential personnel.
There is currently no cure and no vaccine, we hope to develop these, but the money spent so far has really been spent to spread out the disease so we don't overwhelm healthcare systems. We may end up with the same number of cases over time no matter what we do.
No one yet knows whether August is a magic month or next February or next August. It may be the case that no one with a compromised immune system should ever go anywhere again.
I'm in the camp that ANA hasn't cancelled because they're trying to wait for the convention center to call it. I won't be going in either case.
@kaz If you know your coin is there, you could gear up in a BL-4 suit and go get that puppy. I know you can use a microscope while wearing one, so a loupe should still be good.
For the record, I sympathize with all leaders, at all levels, in any political party. This extends beyond the political realm to the corporate world, medical system, religions, and yes even hobby organizations. I'm a leader in my little domain and I find it incredibly difficult to make decisions based on incomplete information and an endless list of unknowns. For my part, I'm willing to cut them a little slack. There are varying degrees of competency, but most of them are doing their best. Many are being influenced by those who harbor personal agendas, and this goes both ways.
@BryceM Good Post. Personally, it angers me, when left and right factions accuse the other of being 'ill-prepared'. How do you 'prepare' for something like this? No one in the WORLD was 'ready'! I applaud and admire those on the front line (both essential medical workers and essential businesses who are keeping things going in this great country). They risk their lives every day. We must come together on this, as our leaders are doing the best that they can, as we navigate through the uncertain.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
So much more could have been done and so much sooner.
So much was known many months ago.
I knew what was going on, how could the higher ups Not know.
Months ago the news showed China building a giant mobile hospital in a very short time, something was up?
Months ago, the news showed images of Long Beach Harbor with Zero cargo ships being unloaded, something was up.
Moths ago, I was concerned about going to the Winter Long Beach show, but still went and kept my distance in the aisles.
Months ago we went to our favorite restaurant, Souplantation, a buffet-style salad bar. The lady behind me coughed and I freaked. I did get a fever a week later and was brain dead all day ??? And no, I was not tested.
After that, I said to my wife that we will never go to our favorite restaurant again. Such a shame. Souplantation has now gone out of business and will not reopen. So Sad, This is real.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
So much more could have been done and so much sooner.
So much was known many months ago.
I knew what was going on, how could the higher ups Not know.
Months ago the news showed China building a giant mobile hospital in a very short time, something was up?
Months ago, the news showed images of Long Beach Harbor with Zero cargo ships being unloaded, something was up.
Moths ago, I was concerned about going to the Winter Long Beach show, but still went and kept my distance in the aisles.
Months ago we went to our favorite restaurant, Souplantation, a buffet-style salad bar. The lady behind me coughed and I freaked. I did get a fever a week later and was brain dead all day ??? And no, I was not tested.
After that, I said to my wife that we will never go to our favorite restaurant again. Such a shame. Souplantation has now gone out of business and will not reopen. So Sad, This is real.
@amwldcoin said:
That's a back seat driver post if I ever saw one!
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
So much more could have been done and so much sooner.
So much was known many months ago.
I knew what was going on, how could the higher ups Not know.
Months ago the news showed China building a giant mobile hospital in a very short time, something was up?
Months ago, the news showed images of Long Beach Harbor with Zero cargo ships being unloaded, something was up.
Moths ago, I was concerned about going to the Winter Long Beach show, but still went and kept my distance in the aisles.
Months ago we went to our favorite restaurant, Souplantation, a buffet-style salad bar. The lady behind me coughed and I freaked. I did get a fever a week later and was brain dead all day ??? And no, I was not tested.
After that, I said to my wife that we will never go to our favorite restaurant again. Such a shame. Souplantation has now gone out of business and will not reopen. So Sad, This is real.
Really, everything I stated is true. Do you even watch the real news?
The fact is I am the one who posted the poofed "Black Swan Thread" quite a while ago.
The virus is spreading by leaps and bounds thru the Midwest. Me thinks the worst is not over. I'm not gonna risk my life in any large venue until the death rate drops way down. Peace Roy
Just for perspective, one of the great pandemics was the polio outburst of the late 1940s and early 1950. Polio had been around forever (there are ancient Egyptian paintings of a man with a withered leg that looks like a polio victim), and FDR contracted it in 1921, but it really took off after WW2. I suspect that the vast amount of movement of people around the world transported various strains to areas where there was limited local resistance. I got it shortly after I was born in 1950.
One of the worst years was 1952, with over 58,000 recorded cases in the U.S. The death toll was 3,100 something. Roughly half of the survivors incurred permanent paralysis of wildly different muscles, as a result of the destruction of the nerves that controlled those muscles.
That was considered bad. People took it seriously, with quarantines of affected houses and closures of public swimming pools. Compare that to the current number of infected people in the U.S. at well over one million, with a death toll approaching 80,000 with no end in sight.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
To be sure there were and are tough decisions to be made by our government.
Do you base policy on science or economics? I believe the two will converge eventually. Science will win.
Do you try to flatten the curve or go with herd immunity? I believe the two will converge eventually with the hopes that a vaccine will end this epidemic.
Do you take ownership as in the buck stops here or pass out blame? This is a serious problem, IMO.
Do you lead by example or go against your own CDC recommendations?
Do you encourage armed men to storm a state capital?
To be fair our government did some positive moves.
For the most part, so far it seems we fattened the curve after the first overwhelming spike.
Building Mobile Hospitals and sending the hospital ship to NYC ..... grade A+
Perhaps cutting some of the red tape on vaccines may be a good thing. scary tho.
Cranking out ventilators happened, we have enough at this point, but unfortunately, ventilator outcome is not so good. Way more emphasis needs to be on early treatment and testing, and testing, and testing.
If the goal is to save lives at any cost, then the speed limits would be set to 10 mph, every intersection would be gated, only allowing one vehicle at a time, cigarettes and alcohol would not be sold and made illegal, and bathtubs and knives removed from all homes.
Life = Risk.
They do realize that these shows cater to a skewed population pool that is enriched for above average to very much above average risk folks and that these highly susceptible folks will be, by definition of a coin show, packed together far more tightly than any social distancing safety precaution might accommodate and face-to-face time will be quite high and that all these susceptible folks engaging in high risk activities will be in an enclosed area over the course of several days and will have to get to the meeting place largely by air travel and will need to stay in hotels and typically eat out in crowds.
They realize that run-on sentence, right?
Yes........a large crowd of probably the very highest risk individuals on the planet all in close proximity and handling small pieces of plastic that others have also recently handled. You know, if I were LOOKING for a way to try and spread the Covid-19 virus to the highest risk population in the most expedient way possible, I'd hold a large indoor coin show and have everyone pass around small plastic items.
My wife plays duplicate bridge, 52 cards, say two dozen tables, average age probably 80. One of the first activities to shut down.
Some of the first deaths in Colorado were among a bridge club in Colorado SPrings that held a tournament the last few days of February/ first few days of March.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Median age of mortality in my state Ohio is 80. Not saying their life isn't precious; please don't think that...I believe the mindset should be; how can we improve our health and safety practices concerning the most vulnerable. Given now what we didn't know then, factoring in that this was circulating much earlier than originally believed, and many people already had it, recovered, didn't even know they had it...mortality rate is much lower than the 3-4%...
I am not taking away from the fact, that our health care system wasn't hit hard in N.Y.C., and Detroit. I have utmost respect for those working their tails off, giving all they can to keep the ship from sinking. Hat's off to you!
However; we have had bad outbreaks. The 2017-2018 C.D.C, estimated death for flu was 80,000 in the U.S. alone. Sometime in the '50's and '70's we had a bad outbreak...probably lead to a lot of unnecessary spotting on my coins...just kidding.
What I fear, above all, and beyond getting sick with this; "actually think I already had it," is the loss of rights, freedoms, and the idea of a "new normal" so many seemed consigned to accept. This troubles me as an American, who loves his country, neighbor, and family with an understanding of life, Liberty, and that pursuit of happiness...to throw that all by the wayside, and not even question?
This covid mess stinks to high heaven as agenda driven. Similar to that other hidden enemy, war on terror, which took many of our rights, and put restrictions in place per the so called Patriot Act. The main stream media was selling the idea of WMD...so many parallels with the unseen bug, and the brutal unseen terrorist. Why would this be different?
Choose your future wisely, because it won't get better as crisis's manifest...you may find yourself in a position where no one listens to you one day.
OK . . . . . stepping into the fray . . . ONLY because none of you will ever read this.
I am a minor player, albeit a cognizant one. Part of the reason (all of the reason) shows like Long Beach won't put up a definite "WE SHUT DOWN THE SHOW" is financial. If Long Beach (or any other local venue) shuts down a show, there are certain dealer expenses that CAN be forwarded onto the show. NO . . hotels, etc. . . . NO. But signage, special preparations, etc. that are irreversible . . CAN be pinned to the show. If the DEALER does not show up . . he (or she) eats the cost. BUT . . .if the show cancels, certain costs will be referred to the Venue (and then paid by the venue's event insurance).
If a dealer blinks . . . he or she incurs all peripheral costs. If LB (or any other show) blinks first . . . .THEY incur any peripheral costs.
LB and dealers (and other shows) are playing a game of chess. Who will blink first. In time . . . . . . LB will have to post a FINAL message . . . despite the fact a major auction house has already been informed the show WILL NOT be held (got that FOR SURE word today at 1pm MDT). But legally . . . it is timing.
This is deep enough no one will read it . . .so I am not too worried about ramifications.
I am not a lawyer . . . . . . I just play one on TV.
I guess we all have short memories.
The following flu killed an estimated 100,000 in the US and over 1,000,000 all over the world. We didn’t shut down, and obviously we never had a vaccine.
From wiki:
The Hong Kong flu (also known as 1968 flu pandemic[1]) was a flu pandemic whose outbreak in 1968 and 1969 killed an estimated one million people all over the world.[2][3][4] It was caused by an H3N2 strain of the influenza A virus, descended from H2N2 through antigenic shift, a genetic process in which genes from multiple subtypes reassorted to form a new virus.
@dbldie55 said:
In today's environment, I think at least 90% of the science reported is based purely on politics.
There are currently 2 kinds of people in this country today. Those who what to be free to live as the founders intended, and those who want to tell everyone else how to live. Which group you are in speaks volumes about you.
It is unfortunate for the old folks in nursing homes as they have no choice in their situation but for everybody else (except first responders and medical folks) Covid will be Lysol for the gene pool. There will be two kinds of people...those that live and those that die. I got a kick out of the protests in Richmond a couple weeks ago...”they took our rights blah blah blah.” Guess what...hot spot in Richmond couple weeks after the protests. Stupid is as stupid does
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Well we went to the butcher in the Fairfax Farmers Market and my favorite exotic plant guy today. It was wonderful being out for awhile. Most everyone minding the social distancing mandate with a few jackass exceptions. It was nice to see more people out and about. People and businesses seem to be adapting the best they can and most everyone is being nice to each other. Refreshing. Weather here in So Cal has been perfect.
Everyone have a chili Mother’s Day Sunday. Huntington Meats in the Farmers Market is the jam. They have a sign that never fails to make me laugh. No checks unless over 85 and accompanied by both parents
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If you’re waiting on a vaccine, we will eventually get something —but as these corona viruses mutate-it’s likely you’ll only be protected for a short period.
I am all for shelter in place and preventing the spread, but we’ve got to open our economy back up very soon.
Surprising there are no comparisons in national media to the pandemic of. 1968
I suppose it doesn’t fit their narrative and hopes to “keep the fear ever present” and oust our current leader
@stman said:
“Well we went to the butcher in the Fairfax Farmers Market “
Canters to go? Down the street.
We were tempted. We passed it on the way home.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
From a source you can query on the net——but again we didn’t shutdown in 1968
Coronavirus vs. Hong Kong flu (H3N2) – 1968-1969
The Hong Kong flu pandemic appeared on 13th July 1968 – by 1969 it had caused 1-4 million deaths worldwide. It was one of the biggest flu pandemics of the 20th century, but fortunately had a lower CFR than the outbreak of 1918 so caused fewer deaths overall.
This may have been because people had developed immunity due to a similar outbreak in 1957, and thanks to improved medical care.
Compared to the Hong Kong flu, coronavirus:
is less widespread
has resulted in fewer deaths
has a higher CFR.
@thefinn said:
If the goal is to save lives at any cost, then the speed limits would be set to 10 mph, every intersection would be gated, only allowing one vehicle at a time, cigarettes and alcohol would not be sold and made illegal, and bathtubs and knives removed from all homes.
Life = Risk.
I think the goal is too slow and eventually stop the spread of this insidious unpredictable virus . I’ve lost several otherwise healthy friends and colleagues who would otherwise be alive. Most were extremely fit and well under 50. A few were naysayers and laughed at COVID-19.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Some it hits harder than others; you would expect that in most cases it would be because of pre existing conditions—-but then Some otherwise frail people have survived—and younger seemingly fit individuals have not
@coiner said:
From a source you can query on the net——but again we didn’t shutdown in 1968
Coronavirus vs. Hong Kong flu (H3N2) – 1968-1969
The Hong Kong flu pandemic appeared on 13th July 1968 – by 1969 it had caused 1-4 million deaths worldwide. It was one of the biggest flu pandemics of the 20th century, but fortunately had a lower CFR than the outbreak of 1918 so caused fewer deaths overall.
This may have been because people had developed immunity due to a similar outbreak in 1957, and thanks to improved medical care.
Compared to the Hong Kong flu, coronavirus:
is less widespread
has resulted in fewer deaths
has a higher CFR.
That is some analytic throat clearing. Covid 19 has killed more people in less time and short of a miracle will crush the mortality stats for the 68-69 flu. Your comparison is weak at best as that pandemic was an influenza variation just as the one we has in 2009 with h1n1 killed 30k in US. Why not more...because we had SOME antibodies. COVID = zero antibodies at first exposure. For God’s sake this stuff sucks enough without Ill informed conspiracy theories.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Overwhelming the health care system? That has only been close to being reached in major metropolitan areas. In over 80% of other areas, hospitals are laying off doctors and nurses because they have a minimal number of CoVid patients. And no other procedures are being done other than immediate life threatening. Unintended consequences. Go figure. We should have been focusing on keeping people OUT of hospitals with proper pre-treatments by your PCP. Once you start showing severe flu-like symptoms you're behind the 8 ball. Once they call for a ventilator you're cooked. Many rural hospitals will being going broke, many will shutdown.....the "benefits" of over-panicking outside major population centers. Your health care costs will be rising again.
In Connecticut, 93% of all CV deaths are those 60 and over. 97% in age 50 and over. Of course those over 70 and 80 are carrying the brunt of it, especially at nursing homes where the rates are 2-3 times everywhere else than the elders congregate. For every age increase of 10 yrs our rates go up 2x to 3x. Do the math. The risk to those under 40 and especially under 30 is extremely low, esp. if no pre-conditions.
Coin shows for those under 50-55, probably not too bad. Over 60? Not a great idea. How do you know for sure you have no co-morbidities?
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I think a lot of the issue of co-morbidity is that young people are less likely to realize they have them and that may explain some of the deaths. I am healthy, only a few minor issues, but I have a PCP and 6 specialists watching over me. My kids each have a PCP and probably don't keep all of their appointments.
Mgarmy
The one difference is we didn’t shut down the entire economy in68-69
And we didn’t have 33 million unemployed
And BTW—actual deaths due to COVID-19 is truly not known some have been now attributed to other issues and not COVID-19
Not to minimize the severity—but I think we have taken this many steps too far—-there are rediculous hurdles; almost unachievable hurdles to reopen, while many people could be back in work with reasonable rules in place
Comments
OMG. LMAO.
This confirms that we need leadership from the top which is so lacking
@BryceM LOL about sums it up. This is not far from our leadership.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
My daughter runs a non-profit social work agency, people dying from shutdown-induced increases in suicide rates and things like domestic violence are not a joke. Increases in suicides are currently projected to exceed Covid deaths by 3X. She and her team are all still working as essential personnel.
There is currently no cure and no vaccine, we hope to develop these, but the money spent so far has really been spent to spread out the disease so we don't overwhelm healthcare systems. We may end up with the same number of cases over time no matter what we do.
No one yet knows whether August is a magic month or next February or next August. It may be the case that no one with a compromised immune system should ever go anywhere again.
I'm in the camp that ANA hasn't cancelled because they're trying to wait for the convention center to call it. I won't be going in either case.
@kaz If you know your coin is there, you could gear up in a BL-4 suit and go get that puppy. I know you can use a microscope while wearing one, so a loupe should still be good.
For the record, I sympathize with all leaders, at all levels, in any political party. This extends beyond the political realm to the corporate world, medical system, religions, and yes even hobby organizations. I'm a leader in my little domain and I find it incredibly difficult to make decisions based on incomplete information and an endless list of unknowns. For my part, I'm willing to cut them a little slack. There are varying degrees of competency, but most of them are doing their best. Many are being influenced by those who harbor personal agendas, and this goes both ways.
@BryceM Good Post. Personally, it angers me, when left and right factions accuse the other of being 'ill-prepared'. How do you 'prepare' for something like this? No one in the WORLD was 'ready'! I applaud and admire those on the front line (both essential medical workers and essential businesses who are keeping things going in this great country). They risk their lives every day. We must come together on this, as our leaders are doing the best that they can, as we navigate through the uncertain.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
So much more could have been done and so much sooner.
So much was known many months ago.
I knew what was going on, how could the higher ups Not know.
Months ago the news showed China building a giant mobile hospital in a very short time, something was up?
Months ago, the news showed images of Long Beach Harbor with Zero cargo ships being unloaded, something was up.
Moths ago, I was concerned about going to the Winter Long Beach show, but still went and kept my distance in the aisles.
Months ago we went to our favorite restaurant, Souplantation, a buffet-style salad bar. The lady behind me coughed and I freaked. I did get a fever a week later and was brain dead all day ??? And no, I was not tested.
After that, I said to my wife that we will never go to our favorite restaurant again. Such a shame. Souplantation has now gone out of business and will not reopen. So Sad, This is real.
That's a back seat driver post if I ever saw one!
Really, everything I stated is true. Do you even watch the real news?
The fact is I am the one who posted the poofed "Black Swan Thread" quite a while ago.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1034382/black-swan-event/p1
The day I posted that thread there were 2800 Covid 19 cases and 58 deaths in the USA.
Facts are Facts.
The virus is spreading by leaps and bounds thru the Midwest. Me thinks the worst is not over. I'm not gonna risk my life in any large venue until the death rate drops way down. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken
Just for perspective, one of the great pandemics was the polio outburst of the late 1940s and early 1950. Polio had been around forever (there are ancient Egyptian paintings of a man with a withered leg that looks like a polio victim), and FDR contracted it in 1921, but it really took off after WW2. I suspect that the vast amount of movement of people around the world transported various strains to areas where there was limited local resistance. I got it shortly after I was born in 1950.
One of the worst years was 1952, with over 58,000 recorded cases in the U.S. The death toll was 3,100 something. Roughly half of the survivors incurred permanent paralysis of wildly different muscles, as a result of the destruction of the nerves that controlled those muscles.
That was considered bad. People took it seriously, with quarantines of affected houses and closures of public swimming pools. Compare that to the current number of infected people in the U.S. at well over one million, with a death toll approaching 80,000 with no end in sight.
To be sure there were and are tough decisions to be made by our government.
Do you base policy on science or economics? I believe the two will converge eventually. Science will win.
Do you try to flatten the curve or go with herd immunity? I believe the two will converge eventually with the hopes that a vaccine will end this epidemic.
Do you take ownership as in the buck stops here or pass out blame? This is a serious problem, IMO.
Do you lead by example or go against your own CDC recommendations?
Do you encourage armed men to storm a state capital?
Do you promote cures that are not science-based?
Do you show empathy, at all?
Here is a link to a good post by a microbiologist with plenty of useful information on avoiding infection:
https://erinbromage.wixsite.com/covid19/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
To be fair our government did some positive moves.
For the most part, so far it seems we fattened the curve after the first overwhelming spike.
Building Mobile Hospitals and sending the hospital ship to NYC ..... grade A+
Perhaps cutting some of the red tape on vaccines may be a good thing. scary tho.
Cranking out ventilators happened, we have enough at this point, but unfortunately, ventilator outcome is not so good. Way more emphasis needs to be on early treatment and testing, and testing, and testing.
So much more to do .....
🤓
I just went for the flag instead.
I go by facts. I could go on in with more facts in both directions.
I do not want to be misinformed. I am willing to change my mind on new facts.
Please point out which of my questions are poorly informed and let us discuss it in detail.
Please inform me, I want to learn as much as I can.
i thank you for your help in advance, Chris
Awesome. Almost replied negatively to your 1st post as a FL MD.
Sell me your lonely 1921 peace $.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
After you wrote that I wrote poorly informed questions.
Please back up your statement.
Everything I wrote is fact-based backed up by video clips and tweets.
So you cry to mommy instead?
PM’d you buddy. 😎
Someone should research the effects of high stress on the human immune system.
As for facts, the same "scientists" have given statements one day and contradicted them later. There are very few facts, but many opinions about this.
Here are as close to the facts as one can get - by the numbers.....
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If the goal is to save lives at any cost, then the speed limits would be set to 10 mph, every intersection would be gated, only allowing one vehicle at a time, cigarettes and alcohol would not be sold and made illegal, and bathtubs and knives removed from all homes.
Life = Risk.
My wife plays duplicate bridge, 52 cards, say two dozen tables, average age probably 80. One of the first activities to shut down.
Some of the first deaths in Colorado were among a bridge club in Colorado SPrings that held a tournament the last few days of February/ first few days of March.
Well that went well
Excellent article. A bit lengthy, but I'd encourage everyone to read it.
Livelihood vs. lives. We saw this coming. Glad I don't have to make the call.
Median age of mortality in my state Ohio is 80. Not saying their life isn't precious; please don't think that...I believe the mindset should be; how can we improve our health and safety practices concerning the most vulnerable. Given now what we didn't know then, factoring in that this was circulating much earlier than originally believed, and many people already had it, recovered, didn't even know they had it...mortality rate is much lower than the 3-4%...
I am not taking away from the fact, that our health care system wasn't hit hard in N.Y.C., and Detroit. I have utmost respect for those working their tails off, giving all they can to keep the ship from sinking. Hat's off to you!
However; we have had bad outbreaks. The 2017-2018 C.D.C, estimated death for flu was 80,000 in the U.S. alone. Sometime in the '50's and '70's we had a bad outbreak...probably lead to a lot of unnecessary spotting on my coins...just kidding.
What I fear, above all, and beyond getting sick with this; "actually think I already had it," is the loss of rights, freedoms, and the idea of a "new normal" so many seemed consigned to accept. This troubles me as an American, who loves his country, neighbor, and family with an understanding of life, Liberty, and that pursuit of happiness...to throw that all by the wayside, and not even question?
This covid mess stinks to high heaven as agenda driven. Similar to that other hidden enemy, war on terror, which took many of our rights, and put restrictions in place per the so called Patriot Act. The main stream media was selling the idea of WMD...so many parallels with the unseen bug, and the brutal unseen terrorist. Why would this be different?
Choose your future wisely, because it won't get better as crisis's manifest...you may find yourself in a position where no one listens to you one day.
OK . . . . . stepping into the fray . . . ONLY because none of you will ever read this.
I am a minor player, albeit a cognizant one. Part of the reason (all of the reason) shows like Long Beach won't put up a definite "WE SHUT DOWN THE SHOW" is financial. If Long Beach (or any other local venue) shuts down a show, there are certain dealer expenses that CAN be forwarded onto the show. NO . . hotels, etc. . . . NO. But signage, special preparations, etc. that are irreversible . . CAN be pinned to the show. If the DEALER does not show up . . he (or she) eats the cost. BUT . . .if the show cancels, certain costs will be referred to the Venue (and then paid by the venue's event insurance).
If a dealer blinks . . . he or she incurs all peripheral costs. If LB (or any other show) blinks first . . . .THEY incur any peripheral costs.
LB and dealers (and other shows) are playing a game of chess. Who will blink first. In time . . . . . . LB will have to post a FINAL message . . . despite the fact a major auction house has already been informed the show WILL NOT be held (got that FOR SURE word today at 1pm MDT). But legally . . . it is timing.
This is deep enough no one will read it . . .so I am not too worried about ramifications.
I am not a lawyer . . . . . . I just play one on TV.
Drunner
I guess we all have short memories.
The following flu killed an estimated 100,000 in the US and over 1,000,000 all over the world. We didn’t shut down, and obviously we never had a vaccine.
From wiki:
The Hong Kong flu (also known as 1968 flu pandemic[1]) was a flu pandemic whose outbreak in 1968 and 1969 killed an estimated one million people all over the world.[2][3][4] It was caused by an H3N2 strain of the influenza A virus, descended from H2N2 through antigenic shift, a genetic process in which genes from multiple subtypes reassorted to form a new virus.
It is unfortunate for the old folks in nursing homes as they have no choice in their situation but for everybody else (except first responders and medical folks) Covid will be Lysol for the gene pool. There will be two kinds of people...those that live and those that die. I got a kick out of the protests in Richmond a couple weeks ago...”they took our rights blah blah blah.” Guess what...hot spot in Richmond couple weeks after the protests. Stupid is as stupid does
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Well we went to the butcher in the Fairfax Farmers Market and my favorite exotic plant guy today. It was wonderful being out for awhile. Most everyone minding the social distancing mandate with a few jackass exceptions. It was nice to see more people out and about. People and businesses seem to be adapting the best they can and most everyone is being nice to each other. Refreshing. Weather here in So Cal has been perfect.
Everyone have a chili Mother’s Day Sunday. Huntington Meats in the Farmers Market is the jam. They have a sign that never fails to make me laugh. No checks unless over 85 and accompanied by both parents
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If you’re waiting on a vaccine, we will eventually get something —but as these corona viruses mutate-it’s likely you’ll only be protected for a short period.
I am all for shelter in place and preventing the spread, but we’ve got to open our economy back up very soon.
“Well we went to the butcher in the Fairfax Farmers Market “
Canters to go? Down the street.
Surprising there are no comparisons in national media to the pandemic of. 1968
I suppose it doesn’t fit their narrative and hopes to “keep the fear ever present” and oust our current leader
We were tempted. We passed it on the way home.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
From a source you can query on the net——but again we didn’t shutdown in 1968
Coronavirus vs. Hong Kong flu (H3N2) – 1968-1969
The Hong Kong flu pandemic appeared on 13th July 1968 – by 1969 it had caused 1-4 million deaths worldwide. It was one of the biggest flu pandemics of the 20th century, but fortunately had a lower CFR than the outbreak of 1918 so caused fewer deaths overall.
This may have been because people had developed immunity due to a similar outbreak in 1957, and thanks to improved medical care.
Compared to the Hong Kong flu, coronavirus:
is less widespread
has resulted in fewer deaths
has a higher CFR.
My wife and I planning a trip there for maybe a day. Gotta show her the neighborhood. Heh
I’ll be going to the show
I think the goal is too slow and eventually stop the spread of this insidious unpredictable virus . I’ve lost several otherwise healthy friends and colleagues who would otherwise be alive. Most were extremely fit and well under 50. A few were naysayers and laughed at COVID-19.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Some it hits harder than others; you would expect that in most cases it would be because of pre existing conditions—-but then Some otherwise frail people have survived—and younger seemingly fit individuals have not
That is some analytic throat clearing. Covid 19 has killed more people in less time and short of a miracle will crush the mortality stats for the 68-69 flu. Your comparison is weak at best as that pandemic was an influenza variation just as the one we has in 2009 with h1n1 killed 30k in US. Why not more...because we had SOME antibodies. COVID = zero antibodies at first exposure. For God’s sake this stuff sucks enough without Ill informed conspiracy theories.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Should be apropos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=67&v=QcUAG6t5aN8&feature=emb_title
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2020/05/07/1001252/youtube-covid-conspiracy-theories/amp/
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Overwhelming the health care system? That has only been close to being reached in major metropolitan areas. In over 80% of other areas, hospitals are laying off doctors and nurses because they have a minimal number of CoVid patients. And no other procedures are being done other than immediate life threatening. Unintended consequences. Go figure. We should have been focusing on keeping people OUT of hospitals with proper pre-treatments by your PCP. Once you start showing severe flu-like symptoms you're behind the 8 ball. Once they call for a ventilator you're cooked. Many rural hospitals will being going broke, many will shutdown.....the "benefits" of over-panicking outside major population centers. Your health care costs will be rising again.
In Connecticut, 93% of all CV deaths are those 60 and over. 97% in age 50 and over. Of course those over 70 and 80 are carrying the brunt of it, especially at nursing homes where the rates are 2-3 times everywhere else than the elders congregate. For every age increase of 10 yrs our rates go up 2x to 3x. Do the math. The risk to those under 40 and especially under 30 is extremely low, esp. if no pre-conditions.
Coin shows for those under 50-55, probably not too bad. Over 60? Not a great idea. How do you know for sure you have no co-morbidities?
>
Thanks for posting this link. This is pretty much the equivalent of putting your money where your mouth is.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1033502/the-coronavirus-and-the-related-stock-market-selloff/p1
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
That one is from feb.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Great article comparing the last pandemic with this one
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/forgotten-pandemic-offers-contrast-to-todays-coronavirus-lockdowns-11587720625
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I think a lot of the issue of co-morbidity is that young people are less likely to realize they have them and that may explain some of the deaths. I am healthy, only a few minor issues, but I have a PCP and 6 specialists watching over me. My kids each have a PCP and probably don't keep all of their appointments.
Mgarmy
The one difference is we didn’t shut down the entire economy in68-69
And we didn’t have 33 million unemployed
And BTW—actual deaths due to COVID-19 is truly not known some have been now attributed to other issues and not COVID-19
Not to minimize the severity—but I think we have taken this many steps too far—-there are rediculous hurdles; almost unachievable hurdles to reopen, while many people could be back in work with reasonable rules in place