@1970s said:
Brent had a wonderful business going. He was the most trusted name in the hobby. Everyone loved using his service. He was making a fortune selling sports cards. Living the dream. How in the world did he ever decide to take part in this stuff ? So sad to see someone who was so well respected and appreciated go down this path.
Was most likely a sham from day one. From the shill bidding, to the group of investors, and now seeing behind the curtain, it all makes perfect sense. IMO Greed got the best of them, and like any criminal, they felt invincible. Serial numbered cards, doctored and relisting consignors cards, just a case of crooks trying to fool all of the people all of the time. Someone really respected some hayseed in Oregon's opinion to spend 100% over market on a card? I never bought it.
There were probably card doctors long before we had TPG. Unfortunately some are probably very good at what they do. To expect that TPG could catch every single alteration, I believe is a pipe dream. I do not condone trimming or soaking or whatever it is they do. Although I am guilty of wiping off wax with a sock from time to time. It will be interesting to see if PWCC survives this. I think the TPG's will be OK.
@firstbase23 said:
There were probably card doctors long before we had TPG. Unfortunately some are probably very good at what they do. To expect that TPG could catch every single alteration, I believe is a pipe dream. I do not condone trimming or soaking or whatever it is they do. Although I am guilty of wiping off wax with a sock from time to time. It will be interesting to see if PWCC survives this. I think the TPG's will be OK.
Matt
I agree with these sentiments about being realistic on what to expect from TPGs.
Overall the i believe that the overwhelming majority of authenticated items are legitimate. It’s only a fractional percentage that were altered.
The TPGs will continue to upgrade their processes and technology in a never ending effort to drive that percentage to zero, but the doctors will always be slightly ahead of them. The TPGs will be okay as long as they set expectations properly and remain transparent.
As for PWCC, it looks like their top priority right now is to cooperate enough to avoid their principals being pursued criminally. And yet with all of their negative publicity and the 2016 shilling issues attributed to them there are still people bidding strongly in their new auction. As they say in Latin:
Caveat Emptor
They’ve been involved stuff like this twice now. They are, at the least, permanently tattooed with a reputation based on what they have done. Whether or not they will survive remains to be seen.
What is most troubling to me about Brent’s/PWCC’s position is that their proposed conservation versus alteration determination is evidence-based and not knowledge-based. That is, if the detection of evidence (only of the current state card) is, in PWCCs judgment, not present, then they can only conclude that there was no alteration. The existence of photos of a prior state is not relevant to PWCC.
A knowledges-based assessment would permit an evaluation of the card’s attributes both pre- and post-changes (e.g., the examples in the BO thread) in order to draw a conclusion. Like most of you, I believe this only benefits PWCC.
@firstbase23 said:
There were probably card doctors long before we had TPG. Unfortunately some are probably very good at what they do. To expect that TPG could catch every single alteration, I believe is a pipe dream. I do not condone trimming or soaking or whatever it is they do. Although I am guilty of wiping off wax with a sock from time to time. It will be interesting to see if PWCC survives this. I think the TPG's will be OK.
Matt
Yes there have been card doctors long before we had TPG. I have been collecting since before the TPG and bought some cards mail order through ads in Sports Collectors Digest that were altered.
That was one of my reasons to buy graded cards.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@firstbase23 said:
There were probably card doctors long before we had TPG. Unfortunately some are probably very good at what they do. To expect that TPG could catch every single alteration, I believe is a pipe dream. I do not condone trimming or soaking or whatever it is they do. Although I am guilty of wiping off wax with a sock from time to time. It will be interesting to see if PWCC survives this. I think the TPG's will be OK.
Matt
I agree with these sentiments about being realistic on what to expect from TPGs.
Overall the i believe that the overwhelming majority of authenticated items are legitimate. It’s only a fractional percentage that were altered.
The TPGs will continue to upgrade their processes and technology in a never ending effort to drive that percentage to zero, but the doctors will always be slightly ahead of them. The TPGs will be okay as long as they set expectations properly and remain transparent.
As for PWCC, it looks like their top priority right now is to cooperate enough to avoid their principals being pursued criminally. And yet with all of their negative publicity and the 2016 shilling issues attributed to them there are still people bidding strongly in their new auction. As they say in Latin:
Caveat Emptor
They’ve been involved stuff like this twice now. They are, at the least, permanently tattooed with a reputation based on what they have done. Whether or not they will survive remains to be seen.
Very well stated - especially about being permanently tattooed. Fool me once....
@firstbase23 said:
There were probably card doctors long before we had TPG. Unfortunately some are probably very good at what they do. To expect that TPG could catch every single alteration, I believe is a pipe dream. I do not condone trimming or soaking or whatever it is they do. Although I am guilty of wiping off wax with a sock from time to time. It will be interesting to see if PWCC survives this. I think the TPG's will be OK.
Matt
Yes there have been card doctors long before we had TPG. I have been collecting since before the TPG and bought some cards mail order through ads in Sports Collectors Digest that were altered.
That was one of my reasons to buy graded cards.
Agree Joe
I used to buy cards from SCD ads in the early 90s before PSA and by today's standards, what they called NMMT would be Exmt today. And, yes, one of my "big" purchases in 1991 turned out to be a trimmed T3.
Since there wasn't a net to see a scan - we relied on description or a bad "ad" scan - did way too many returns.
Two of the worst experiences? Returning a card to Strike Zone aka Brdway Rick and a guy named Joe Badalucco who way over graded and somehow put that back on the customer.
PSA and SGC made buying thru the mail way less painful.
Is it OK to wish someone a slow and incredibly painful death?
Just asking!
While I don't think it is specifically spelled-out in the forum rules, let's keep slow and painful deaths to a minimum. ;-)
Well, OK, but this guy was REALLY bad news.
How about he lives forever and is filled with guilt?
Guys, you did see my ;-) at the end of that request, correct? While I still think we should probably steer clear of painful deaths, voodoo, witchcraft and the like, I can appreciate humor.
Todd Tobias - Grateful Collector - I focus on autographed American Football League sets, Fleer & Topps, 1960-1969, and lacrosse cards.
Is it OK to wish someone a slow and incredibly painful death?
Just asking!
While I don't think it is specifically spelled-out in the forum rules, let's keep slow and painful deaths to a minimum. ;-)
Well, OK, but this guy was REALLY bad news.
How about he lives forever and is filled with guilt?
Guys, you did see my ;-) at the end of that request, correct? While I still think we should probably steer clear of painful deaths, voodoo, witchcraft and the like, I can appreciate humor.
;-)
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
In a way I am very happy I was either outbid or the card I wanted to buy went for way more than I could afford. Hopefully, any cards I purchased in the past won't end up on the list of PSA cert's that are compromised. P.S. Lets not forget how PWCC gouged us even more with their extremely high shipping costs on premium cards.
@CenteredMantles said:
PWCC can assign whatever opinion they want to the condition of a card. We all have eyes and can make our own assessment on what has superior or exceptional or whatever other arbitrary designation of eye appeal a card has.
In the case of the "Doctored Mantle", there is a system in place should the buyer feel the card has been worked and holdered in error. There has always been a buy back program for this. As a seller, PWCC should simple stand behind the opinions of the TPGers and honor their disclaimer of not being a TPGer. Some amateur photo matches on Blowout, in my opinion, don't amount to definitive proof. It's in a PSA holder so it was reviewed and assigned a grade. I don't feel PWCC needs to reference this in the listing based on some internet sleuths any more than they should list their own assessment to a Jordan PMG when it too is in a PSA holder. The biggest issue i have is the boneheaded decision to open up this conservation conversation.
End of the day, doctoring cards is nothing new. It's been happening for decades and those with the skills will occasionally slip one past the goalie. PSA isn't combing through worthpoint or photographing every card they grade for future comparisons. That is simply not feasible. PWCC and similar won't be either. The internet mob has gotten several of their "photo matches" dead wrong. This is a hobby, meant to be a pleasurable distraction from the real stresses of life. A few altered cards won't take that pleasure away.
Someone is whistling WAY past the graveyard if you think any significant number of the trimmed before-and-after jobs are a mismatch. But whatever you need to tell yourself, I suppose.
@CenteredMantles said:
PWCC can assign whatever opinion they want to the condition of a card. We all have eyes and can make our own assessment on what has superior or exceptional or whatever other arbitrary designation of eye appeal a card has.
In the case of the "Doctored Mantle", there is a system in place should the buyer feel the card has been worked and holdered in error. There has always been a buy back program for this. As a seller, PWCC should simple stand behind the opinions of the TPGers and honor their disclaimer of not being a TPGer. Some amateur photo matches on Blowout, in my opinion, don't amount to definitive proof. It's in a PSA holder so it was reviewed and assigned a grade. I don't feel PWCC needs to reference this in the listing based on some internet sleuths any more than they should list their own assessment to a Jordan PMG when it too is in a PSA holder. The biggest issue i have is the boneheaded decision to open up this conservation conversation.
End of the day, doctoring cards is nothing new. It's been happening for decades and those with the skills will occasionally slip one past the goalie. PSA isn't combing through worthpoint or photographing every card they grade for future comparisons. That is simply not feasible. PWCC and similar won't be either. The internet mob has gotten several of their "photo matches" dead wrong. This is a hobby, meant to be a pleasurable distraction from the real stresses of life. A few altered cards won't take that pleasure away.
Someone is whistling WAY past the graveyard if you think any significant number of the trimmed before-and-after jobs are a mismatch. But whatever you need to tell yourself, I suppose.
It would really help if someone could point out which ones are dead wrong.
I am doing the only thing I can - never bid on a PWCC auction again. Unfortunately I doubt enough in the hobby will avoid them to make them go away. It appears they are issuing large refund checks - hoping each of those really hurts for them to write. A lot of incredible cards have been permanently ruined.
More cards are being discovered each day on blowout. It’s not going away but it’s also been nearly a month with no response. And there probably won’t be one unless authorities act.
@MrHockey said:
What would you like us to do, Craig?
I think the trading card forum should be a place to talk about pickups, ask hobby questions, reminisce, compare collections, and discuss hobby happenings.
Can you think of a bigger hobby happening in the last decade or more than this mess? I HATE it as much if not more than the next guy. Cards have been a passion of mine for over 30 years and in order for anything meaningful to happen, I think this story needs to be sung from the rooftops to push positive change and to save newer or unknowing hobbyists of this problem.
Unless collectors demand change, it will never come. I think history has taught us this. Business as usual should not cut it this time.
I'm completely out of graded cards. I own a 1978 Topps complete graded set but stopped upgrading. Doubt I'll ever buy another graded card. That's my answer to this mess.
That is really a shame. I am sorry to hear that, but I completely understand. I still have my graded cards, but I am undecided as to weather i will continue to pursue high grade cards. I may start buying 7 and 8's.
@MrHockey said:
What would you like us to do, Craig?
I think the trading card forum should be a place to talk about pickups, ask hobby questions, reminisce, compare collections, and discuss hobby happenings.
Can you think of a bigger hobby happening in the last decade or more than this mess? I HATE it as much if not more than the next guy. Cards have been a passion of mine for over 30 years and in order for anything meaningful to happen, I think this story needs to be sung from the rooftops to push positive change and to save newer or unknowing hobbyists of this problem.
Unless collectors demand change, it will never come. I think history has taught us this. Business as usual should not cut it this time.
It’s still being discussed several threads here.
Honestly, I just read the Blowout threads and net54 (where it’s about 70% of the front page) when I need and want updates. I’ve tried take some relevant things and brought them to light here, too, with tact and hope for the future.
Frankly, I am still waiting to see what comes next. In the Internet world of instant gratification it seems like forever but in reality not a ton of time has actually elapsed since all this news broke.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Honestly, I just read the Blowout threads and net54 (where it’s about 70% of the front page) when I need and want updates. I’ve tried take some relevant things and brought them to light here, too, with tact and hope for the future.
Frankly, I am still waiting to see what comes next. In the Internet world of instant gratification it seems like forever but in reality not a ton of time has actually elapsed since all this news broke.
Nailed it right there. Really need to give it time to let all the info come out and the dust to settle. It is a big deal for the hobby and honestly a smaller percentage of collectors that are purchasing that higher end stuff. I would say that it will not affect 95%(or maybe more) of everyday Joe collectors. That's not to mean it doesn't matter, it just won't affect many. I read the Blowout posts just to see the updated lists. The Net54 boards are/were a huge logjam of repetitive posts about the situation and frankly, it grew tiresome. This is supposed to be a hobby...done for enjoyment. Keep collecting, keep enjoying.
If anybody knows someone on the 1948 leaf football or 1953 parkhurst registry you might want to send them a message. None of them look like familiar posters to me.
@brad31 said:
I am doing the only thing I can - never bid on a PWCC auction again. Unfortunately I doubt enough in the hobby will avoid them to make them go away. It appears they are issuing large refund checks - hoping each of those really hurts for them to write. A lot of incredible cards have been permanently ruined.
I will never bid or consign either. It's a principle. I would feel dirty ever buying a card from them again, and could not even look at the card.
@brad31 said:
I am doing the only thing I can - never bid on a PWCC auction again. Unfortunately I doubt enough in the hobby will avoid them to make them go away. It appears they are issuing large refund checks - hoping each of those really hurts for them to write. A lot of incredible cards have been permanently ruined.
I will never bid or consign either. It's a principle. I would feel dirty ever buying a card from them again, and could not even look at the card.
There are plenty of honest dealers to buy from.
I'm at this point too. It's a shame, at first I saw it as cutting of my own nose to spite my face. I would bet dollars to donuts that none of the 8 cards that I passed on during the most recent auction would be a card affected by the trimming portion of this mess. But after some thought I decided that even with that being the case I can't in good faith hand money to someone who has taken advantage of so many, including members of this forum.
In fact I've made the decision to not purchase anymore cards, graded or otherwise, until this mess is reconciled to my satisfaction. It's sad for me to halt the building of my collection, but unfortunately unless enough people speak with their wallets nothing will change. I've canceled my plans to attend the biggest Hockey Card show of the year this fall in Toronto. Decided I'd rather spend those funds following the Sabres on their California swing in October.
That's what a slow / no response from leaders of the hobby has left me with as an option. If the outrage of vocal memebers of various message board can't make headway quickly then perhaps a slow choking off of funds put into the hobby will.
I will never bid or consign either. It's a principle. I would feel dirty ever buying a card from them again, and could not even look at the card.
There are plenty of honest dealers to buy from.
A lot of collectors have said they'll never buy from PWCC again …………. Current auction is at over $6.8 million -- I guess PWCC found some new buyers.
I had a buyer purchase a $2500 card from me today. I sent him a shipping note and said come back for more given the issues with pwcc. He responded, "what issues are speaking of?" Not all in the hobby are informed and/or participate in the forums.
The pwcc revenue may go down hard depending on what happens at the national. News will travel fast there and the big players not on the forums will likely take full notice then.
I will never bid or consign either. It's a principle. I would feel dirty ever buying a card from them again, and could not even look at the card.
There are plenty of honest dealers to buy from.
A lot of collectors have said they'll never buy from PWCC again …………. Current auction is at over $6.8 million -- I guess PWCC found some new buyers.
There is what maybe 100 active members here. Maybe one or two hundred more who lurk. Most people don’t have any idea what’s going on still. And unfortunately some who do have stuck their heads in the sand hoping it doesn’t impact their “investment”.
I really hope that anyone who chooses to attend any card show including the National brings it up to anyone they meet. That’s how word of this mess will truly spread. I think the vast majority of buyers aren’t the social media / message board types.
PWCC blocked me about mid-May, so I really don't have a choice to buy from them again. I had won about $10K worth of auctions from them over the last couple years. Initially, I was bummed about being blocked, but in light of everything that has surfaced I wouldn't be buying from them anyway (at least until the full story is revealed). I've also stopped buying graded cards until more information is provided. It's difficult at times as there are some cards I really wanted to bid on but I had to pass because I'm waiting for the truth to come out (regarding all the information the TPG's can provide in this matter)
I decided it would be more enjoyable for the time being to spend my money opening current packs. Was in a Target I don’t usually visit the other day, just me and the kids, so I was a little distracted. Threw a couple of Bowman blasters in the cart, pleased to find that they still had a couple. Get home, get some time alone, open the first one and every pack has already been opened. Look at he second and it wasn’t even a very good reseal job, with obvious taping, I just wasn’t paying attention. It is not always easy to avoid the bad guys and just enjoy this hobby.
Our local Targets stopped carrying trading cards altogether about two months ago.
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.
Comments
Was most likely a sham from day one. From the shill bidding, to the group of investors, and now seeing behind the curtain, it all makes perfect sense. IMO Greed got the best of them, and like any criminal, they felt invincible. Serial numbered cards, doctored and relisting consignors cards, just a case of crooks trying to fool all of the people all of the time. Someone really respected some hayseed in Oregon's opinion to spend 100% over market on a card? I never bought it.
There were probably card doctors long before we had TPG. Unfortunately some are probably very good at what they do. To expect that TPG could catch every single alteration, I believe is a pipe dream. I do not condone trimming or soaking or whatever it is they do. Although I am guilty of wiping off wax with a sock from time to time. It will be interesting to see if PWCC survives this. I think the TPG's will be OK.
Matt
I agree with these sentiments about being realistic on what to expect from TPGs.
Overall the i believe that the overwhelming majority of authenticated items are legitimate. It’s only a fractional percentage that were altered.
The TPGs will continue to upgrade their processes and technology in a never ending effort to drive that percentage to zero, but the doctors will always be slightly ahead of them. The TPGs will be okay as long as they set expectations properly and remain transparent.
As for PWCC, it looks like their top priority right now is to cooperate enough to avoid their principals being pursued criminally. And yet with all of their negative publicity and the 2016 shilling issues attributed to them there are still people bidding strongly in their new auction. As they say in Latin:
Caveat Emptor
They’ve been involved stuff like this twice now. They are, at the least, permanently tattooed with a reputation based on what they have done. Whether or not they will survive remains to be seen.
Dave
What is most troubling to me about Brent’s/PWCC’s position is that their proposed conservation versus alteration determination is evidence-based and not knowledge-based. That is, if the detection of evidence (only of the current state card) is, in PWCCs judgment, not present, then they can only conclude that there was no alteration. The existence of photos of a prior state is not relevant to PWCC.
A knowledges-based assessment would permit an evaluation of the card’s attributes both pre- and post-changes (e.g., the examples in the BO thread) in order to draw a conclusion. Like most of you, I believe this only benefits PWCC.
Yes there have been card doctors long before we had TPG. I have been collecting since before the TPG and bought some cards mail order through ads in Sports Collectors Digest that were altered.
That was one of my reasons to buy graded cards.
Very well stated - especially about being permanently tattooed. Fool me once....
KC
Are you running for Congress?> @JoeBanzai said:
Agree Joe
I used to buy cards from SCD ads in the early 90s before PSA and by today's standards, what they called NMMT would be Exmt today. And, yes, one of my "big" purchases in 1991 turned out to be a trimmed T3.
Since there wasn't a net to see a scan - we relied on description or a bad "ad" scan - did way too many returns.
Two of the worst experiences? Returning a card to Strike Zone aka Brdway Rick and a guy named Joe Badalucco who way over graded and somehow put that back on the customer.
PSA and SGC made buying thru the mail way less painful.
JOE BADALUCCO!
Is it OK to wish someone a slow and incredibly painful death?
Just asking!
While I don't think it is specifically spelled-out in the forum rules, let's keep slow and painful deaths to a minimum. ;-)
Well, OK, but this guy was REALLY bad news.
How about he lives forever and is filled with guilt?
I saw this as rhetorical humor Todd - but I do see your point.
Guys, you did see my ;-) at the end of that request, correct? While I still think we should probably steer clear of painful deaths, voodoo, witchcraft and the like, I can appreciate humor.
;-)
I feel like you went really soft really quickly here. Isn’t there some middle ground?
Maybe instead of to the death you can do to the pain?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
You must have never seen the Twilight Zone episode (or Outer Limits?) where the crook dies and thinks he went to heaven, but finds out he's in hell.
Twilight Zone
Sounds like the Twilight Zone where the main guy in the episode is the same but somethings different about the world he lives in.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Not sure, but imagine a world where ALL the cards are "Gem Mint", would then ANY of them be valuable? ;-)
I think this is the one.
Ya know Joe?
It would be like the guy gives you a box of 52T packs and every pack you open has a perfectly centered Gem Mint Mantle.
In a way I am very happy I was either outbid or the card I wanted to buy went for way more than I could afford. Hopefully, any cards I purchased in the past won't end up on the list of PSA cert's that are compromised. P.S. Lets not forget how PWCC gouged us even more with their extremely high shipping costs on premium cards.
A case!
And then he would show you the warehouse!!!!!!
Someone is whistling WAY past the graveyard if you think any significant number of the trimmed before-and-after jobs are a mismatch. But whatever you need to tell yourself, I suppose.
It would really help if someone could point out which ones are dead wrong.
Dropped all the way to page 4. Such short memories.
Are we back to heads in the sand and business as usual?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
What would you like us to do, Craig?
I am doing the only thing I can - never bid on a PWCC auction again. Unfortunately I doubt enough in the hobby will avoid them to make them go away. It appears they are issuing large refund checks - hoping each of those really hurts for them to write. A lot of incredible cards have been permanently ruined.
More cards are being discovered each day on blowout. It’s not going away but it’s also been nearly a month with no response. And there probably won’t be one unless authorities act.
I think the trading card forum should be a place to talk about pickups, ask hobby questions, reminisce, compare collections, and discuss hobby happenings.
Can you think of a bigger hobby happening in the last decade or more than this mess? I HATE it as much if not more than the next guy. Cards have been a passion of mine for over 30 years and in order for anything meaningful to happen, I think this story needs to be sung from the rooftops to push positive change and to save newer or unknowing hobbyists of this problem.
Unless collectors demand change, it will never come. I think history has taught us this. Business as usual should not cut it this time.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm completely out of graded cards. I own a 1978 Topps complete graded set but stopped upgrading. Doubt I'll ever buy another graded card. That's my answer to this mess.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
That is really a shame. I am sorry to hear that, but I completely understand. I still have my graded cards, but I am undecided as to weather i will continue to pursue high grade cards. I may start buying 7 and 8's.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It’s still being discussed several threads here.
Honestly, I just read the Blowout threads and net54 (where it’s about 70% of the front page) when I need and want updates. I’ve tried take some relevant things and brought them to light here, too, with tact and hope for the future.
Frankly, I am still waiting to see what comes next. In the Internet world of instant gratification it seems like forever but in reality not a ton of time has actually elapsed since all this news broke.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Nailed it right there. Really need to give it time to let all the info come out and the dust to settle. It is a big deal for the hobby and honestly a smaller percentage of collectors that are purchasing that higher end stuff. I would say that it will not affect 95%(or maybe more) of everyday Joe collectors. That's not to mean it doesn't matter, it just won't affect many. I read the Blowout posts just to see the updated lists. The Net54 boards are/were a huge logjam of repetitive posts about the situation and frankly, it grew tiresome. This is supposed to be a hobby...done for enjoyment. Keep collecting, keep enjoying.
If anybody knows someone on the 1948 leaf football or 1953 parkhurst registry you might want to send them a message. None of them look like familiar posters to me.
agreed, many any many options in this marketplace
why was the OP banned? alt? something else?
I believe it was stated earlier that it was for a different post in a different thread.
I'm at this point too. It's a shame, at first I saw it as cutting of my own nose to spite my face. I would bet dollars to donuts that none of the 8 cards that I passed on during the most recent auction would be a card affected by the trimming portion of this mess. But after some thought I decided that even with that being the case I can't in good faith hand money to someone who has taken advantage of so many, including members of this forum.
In fact I've made the decision to not purchase anymore cards, graded or otherwise, until this mess is reconciled to my satisfaction. It's sad for me to halt the building of my collection, but unfortunately unless enough people speak with their wallets nothing will change. I've canceled my plans to attend the biggest Hockey Card show of the year this fall in Toronto. Decided I'd rather spend those funds following the Sabres on their California swing in October.
That's what a slow / no response from leaders of the hobby has left me with as an option. If the outrage of vocal memebers of various message board can't make headway quickly then perhaps a slow choking off of funds put into the hobby will.
Kevin
Kevin
A lot of collectors have said they'll never buy from PWCC again …………. Current auction is at over $6.8 million -- I guess PWCC found some new buyers.
I had a buyer purchase a $2500 card from me today. I sent him a shipping note and said come back for more given the issues with pwcc. He responded, "what issues are speaking of?" Not all in the hobby are informed and/or participate in the forums.
The pwcc revenue may go down hard depending on what happens at the national. News will travel fast there and the big players not on the forums will likely take full notice then.
There is what maybe 100 active members here. Maybe one or two hundred more who lurk. Most people don’t have any idea what’s going on still. And unfortunately some who do have stuck their heads in the sand hoping it doesn’t impact their “investment”.
I really hope that anyone who chooses to attend any card show including the National brings it up to anyone they meet. That’s how word of this mess will truly spread. I think the vast majority of buyers aren’t the social media / message board types.
Kevin
Also, I'd add, ask those who say they would never buy from them if they ever did to begin with. A lot of those people were spectators from the start
Kevin
Kevin
PWCC blocked me about mid-May, so I really don't have a choice to buy from them again. I had won about $10K worth of auctions from them over the last couple years. Initially, I was bummed about being blocked, but in light of everything that has surfaced I wouldn't be buying from them anyway (at least until the full story is revealed). I've also stopped buying graded cards until more information is provided. It's difficult at times as there are some cards I really wanted to bid on but I had to pass because I'm waiting for the truth to come out (regarding all the information the TPG's can provide in this matter)
This is not the first, nor will it be the last time, fakes have been discovered in the hobby.
I will continue to buy what I want, realizing that even if the card is graded, there is a chance that it has been altered.
PLEASE, all you who are so upset............stop buying cards, especially the ones I "need".
I do not buy high dollar items, so if I get a fake or two, it's not a big deal.
Probably will avoid PWCC a bit, but I already refuse to buy from pROBstien, so I am going to go after the very few items I have interest in.
Enjoy the hobby!
I decided it would be more enjoyable for the time being to spend my money opening current packs. Was in a Target I don’t usually visit the other day, just me and the kids, so I was a little distracted. Threw a couple of Bowman blasters in the cart, pleased to find that they still had a couple. Get home, get some time alone, open the first one and every pack has already been opened. Look at he second and it wasn’t even a very good reseal job, with obvious taping, I just wasn’t paying attention. It is not always easy to avoid the bad guys and just enjoy this hobby.
Target card display. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.
Our local Targets stopped carrying trading cards altogether about two months ago.
I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.