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2019 Apollo 11 50th Anniversary Commemoratives (19C[A-H], B49296, B49297, B15054, 19XA1, 19XA2)

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  • jabbajabba Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ve decided to build a holder for my puck it will look like a gyroscope with the coin mounted in the plastic capsule in the middle with the ability to spin it around. I have to order the material and machine it but if the puck doesn’t come till
    The fall I’ve got the time.

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭

    @smokincoin said:

    @SoundPoint said:
    Would you say this statement is True or False?
    --->>51,000 Apollo 11 50th Anniversary 2019 Proof 5-ounce Silver Dollar Coins were minted and available for sale on the First Day they were issued and all orders after the initial allotment sold are backordered and will be available WED, May 1, 2019 until the mintage limit is reached.

    I'm guessing it was under 20,000. Knowing what we know now even 10,000 wouldn't surprise me.

    Interesting how it went from May 1st to August 23rd to October 25th....Maybe by Xmas?

  • ADGADG Posts: 438 ✭✭✭

    I wonder how good a job (if any) the Mint does of making the general public aware of these Apollo coins.
    Plenty of sales material sent to a coin community which already knows about them, but what about a broader focus for this type of coin?

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coin World is reporting the obtaining planchet blanks and only one press that can do these 3" coins as well as sharing this press for production of ATB 5 oz "Quarters" is the cause of the delay in filling Apollo 5 oz orders.


  • BigABigA Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭

    First Strike and Early Release now are real.... :)

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019 1:06PM

    Saw this question elsewhere but how many do you think were sold in the nine minutes before the backorder status and orders sent to "processing" (and eventually shipped) ....I would assume many were sold of the 51k after they went backordered and thus are in limbo for shipment

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I got mine all packed up to PCGS. It’s going to cost almost $88.00 per 5 oz puck. :(

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019 1:27PM

    I think it comes down to how many will be slabbed as FS/FDOI/and variants. Many were bought but if they are not identified by slabbing does it matter how many where actually sold?

    I don’t know but I am happy with mine. Both raw and some to be slabbed. :)

  • dmwestdmwest Posts: 959 ✭✭✭✭

    @Gluggo said:
    I got mine all packed up to PCGS. It’s going to cost almost $88.00 per 5 oz puck. :(

    I thought it was $54 per puck plus shipping?

    Don't quote me on that.

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019 1:40PM

    @dmwest said:

    @Gluggo said:
    I got mine all packed up to PCGS. It’s going to cost almost $88.00 per 5 oz puck. :(

    I thought it was $54 per puck plus shipping?

    I agree. 16 (Svc Fee) + 18 (AMF w/FS) + 20 (over size holder) = 54, +10 if you want TV.

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019 3:43PM

    @dmwest said:

    @Gluggo said:
    I got mine all packed up to PCGS. It’s going to cost almost $88.00 per 5 oz puck. :(

    I thought it was $54 per puck plus shipping?

    It might be but after I filled out the form.
    54 bucks to process, your paying 22 bucks included for the oversized holder. Or maybe I was not suppose to add that one. (If that’s the case then I will save me 22 bucks.
    10 dollar handling fee
    22 bucks shipping.
    I guess when they bill me I will know then, but’s that is what I came up with. Better to not be surprised when they bill me 4 or 5 weeks from now. Make sure you use a 2019 form which can be down loaded.

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019 2:03PM

    Clads came today versus the original projection of Monday. Need to send a couple off for Valentine’s!

    Got Thomas J., too.

    Print is enroute!

    Time to take a break and slow down feeding the Treasury’s coffers. LOL :)

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gluggo I see what you mean for the $88 for the one puck.

    I submitted several other coins so it spreads out $10 handling and $22+ shipping/insurance charges.

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019 2:18PM

    @Hemispherical said:
    @Gluggo I see what you mean for the $88 for the one puck.

    I submitted several other coins so it spreads out $10 handling and $22+ shipping/insurance charges.

    Yes I could of shipped up to 4 for the 22 bucks but I think for now I just need one slabbed. I only bought 1 puck and barely got that one. System was really bogged down. I got the 5 - 2 coin half sets and a few silver ones and posters. I think they came in but I have one more box to open up. Posters are on backorder. The rest does not really qualify for slabbing due to value is not really worth the cost. I will probably repack them for my grand baby later in life.
    Plus I have a lot of Civil War and pre 1800 English coins I want to get slabbed. These moderns well they all 69s at a minimum.

  • TwobitcollectorTwobitcollector Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019 2:20PM

    I only ordered 2 sets of the half set, they arrived today.

    Positive BST Transactions with:
    INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
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  • smokincoinsmokincoin Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭

    Is the Kennedy "enhanced, reverse proof" finish any different than any of the previous issues?

  • AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Kennedy looks just like the 2018-S RP. What's the diff between RP and Enhanced RP?

    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
  • JazzmanJABJazzmanJAB Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭✭

    @Akbeez said:
    The Kennedy looks just like the 2018-S RP. What's the diff between RP and Enhanced RP?

    To me, the device on Enhanced RP, is not shiny or proof like. It is almost like a burnished finish.

  • smokincoinsmokincoin Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭

    @Akbeez said:
    The Kennedy looks just like the 2018-S RP. What's the diff between RP and Enhanced RP?

    That's what I was wondering Wayne.

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Comparison:

    Coin Facts 2018 RP Kennedy

    Borrowing @Twobitcollector’s pic (from above) 2019 ERP Kennedy

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hemispherical said:
    Comparison:

    Coin Facts 2018 RP Kennedy

    Borrowing @Twobitcollector’s pic (from above) 2019 ERP Kennedy

    It is sort of strange but I think I like the Reverse Proof better.

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Amazing photos. Thank you all. Isn’t it interesting that I had the same experiences as Gluggo and barely got my order for four Pucks in before it shut down. And now it really matters....and it will be interesting to see the final number available for first strike and ER in the Pucks. This could create a bit of a “rare issue” or low count versus the hundred thousand proposed mintage number.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • SoundPointSoundPoint Posts: 255 ✭✭✭

    @MilesWaits said:
    . . . . And now it really matters....and it will be interesting to see the final number available for first strike and ER in the Pucks. This could create a bit of a “rare issue” or low count versus the hundred thousand proposed mintage number.

    I agree with you now! With all the backorders from the mint, it appears First Strike and Early Release issues graded 70 will be the big winners with the limited supply. I wonder what percentage of submissions are grading 70, especially the 5oz Pucks? I bet prices are going "Straight to the Moon" at some point in the future.

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does any one know of an actual 5 oz graded and slabbed by PCGS? Or by ATS? Personally seen one or held one in your hand? Received one that you ordered from a TPG? Or told by some one you trust that says they have one in hand?

    I am thinking none are really out there yet. All I've seen are offers of pre-orders or promises of delivery "soon".


  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Has anyone called PCGS to see if they're offering a half-set label pedigree on the proof commem/Kennedy set? They are ATS, but I can't find a reference to it on PCGS's site.

    Now that I'm probably going to entomb the pucks, I'm deciding which coins and which TPG...

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭

    I think with the two coin half set the Apollo half attributed to the set will be the way to go. Other than that the Apollo half will be a tad routine...and if PCGS does not designate the Apollo as being from the set it will definitely decrease the pop of "set" labels available....

    I have NEVER sent a clad anything in for grading but I will send my Apollo halves to get that set designation...these and the FS/ER saucers have the best potential for appreciation of the whole Apollo group ...IMHO

    Now the halves just have to arrive..................................................................

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suspect, given the history with the Mercury dimes and the Palladium’s, that even the 70s will have some variations. In considering the large Puck pallet, the imperfections will be very obvious.
    It will be very interesting to see how many actual PCGS FS 70s are graded and then how many of those are super clean.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Currently, Apollo 5oz, 173 at PF70. We will never know how many have been submitted so take it for what it is worth.

    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/2019-p-1-apollo-11-50th-anniversary-5-oz-silver-dc/696820

  • BullsitterBullsitter Posts: 5,610 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Earth Rising Label has 5 graded PR70 so far....PCGS #: 698163

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 8:13AM

    @Bullsitter said:
    The Earth Rising Label has 5 graded PR70 so far....PCGS #: 698163

    Thank you for that.
    I have a question.
    I only have one puck to grade and I do NOT think it will grade 70. But is it still worth it to tell PCGS to continue and label it even if it’s a 69?
    TYIA

  • BullsitterBullsitter Posts: 5,610 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gluggo said:

    @Bullsitter said:
    The Earth Rising Label has 5 graded PR70 so far....PCGS #: 698163

    Thank you for that.
    I have a question.
    I only have one puck to grade and I do NOT think it will grade 70. But is it still worth it to tell PCGS to continue and label it even if it’s a 69?
    TYIA

    I would unless the imperfection bothers you. It would be much cheaper than buying a 70 which are around $600.

    Good luck to you Big G

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 8:53AM

    @Gluggo said:

    @Bullsitter said:
    The Earth Rising Label has 5 graded PR70 so far....PCGS #: 698163

    Thank you for that.
    I have a question.
    I only have one puck to grade and I do NOT think it will grade 70. But is it still worth it to tell PCGS to continue and label it even if it’s a 69?
    TYIA

    Gluggo, they cost about $225 from the Mint and $80 to grade only one, and Bullion Exchanges sells for $310 a FS PR69 PCGS, so about the same if you ask me. However a 70 is worth a couple hundred extra, but if you saw a flaw, then not a 70.

    I try not to send in 69's as they are easily available. If you get a 68, well that is a waste for sure.

  • JedPlanchetJedPlanchet Posts: 907 ✭✭✭

    @Hemispherical said:
    Looks like a typo on the back of the box for the Apollo/Kennedy set on the Mint’s site (last line in the white rectangle). The reverse designer/engraver is Frank Gasparro.

    The Mint’s pic of the reverse of the Kennedy has FG.

    How does the Mint fix this with all those already shipped and those pending shipment? Do they fix this?

    Anyone with the set, please post a pic.

    Got my set yesterday - the error is still there. I have a feeling the Mint does not care about it.

    Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chief and Goldminer thank you both. Just to be clear what I saw was a very faint smudge from I am guessing handling. I did put No grade 68 or lower. Mine is more for History documentation along with the posters. I wonder can we submit those for encapsulation? :D

  • edited February 3, 2019 1:37PM
    This content has been removed.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gluggo said:
    Chief and Goldminer thank you both. Just to be clear what I saw was a very faint smudge from I am guessing handling. I did put No grade 68 or lower. Mine is more for History documentation along with the posters. I wonder can we submit those for encapsulation? :D

    It would be cheaper to buy the 69 already slabbed. The OGH may be worth more than the 69 slab. It's a burial to pay 88 bucks to slab a 69

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 11:43AM

    @Gluggo said:
    Chief and Goldminer thank you both. Just to be clear what I saw was a very faint smudge from I am guessing handling. I did put No grade 68 or lower. Mine is more for History documentation along with the posters. I wonder can we submit those for encapsulation? :D

    King Tut was encapsulated, but someone broke his gold set up for regrading a long time ago. Not sure if he had posters on the walls, but his tomb was upgraded recently.

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭

    Got my set yesterday - the error is still there. I have a feeling the Mint does not care about it.

    I believe the sets that have been delivered recently (mine are coming Monday and Tuesday) were shipped before the Mint discovered the issue....wasn't backordered for very long and orders placed during the backorder have also been shipped (mine coming Friday)...so either they had some rapid reprints or, yes, they said screw it

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 12:09PM

    Just for reference, I sent in a few ATB's the first year 5 ounce Nat'l Parks what I thought had "faint smudges" probably from the cotton gloves they wear handling them sliding. Anyway, I ended up with 65-68 grades and NEVER again will I waste money grading newly Minted modern coins with spots, uneven finishes, smudges, nicks, pits, edges out of round, etc. They are not worth much more than melt in the 65-68 slabs in most cases.

  • planetsteveplanetsteve Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭✭

    I've gotta question on the puck backorders. I had my order in for five of them well within the first ten minutes of the Mint opening them for purchase. Nevertheless, my pucks are still on BO. So... is the Mint pretty good at fulfilling orders in the order they were received? Or could I really end up waiting until October? :'(:#

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 12:40PM

    @ADG said:
    I wonder how good a job (if any) the Mint does of making the general public aware of these Apollo coins.
    Plenty of sales material sent to a coin community which already knows about them, but what about a broader focus for this type of coin?

    The only areas outside of the coin community seems to be specific to what the coin commemorates.

    In the case of this coin, only those who follow “space” related news and even then it is limited and only if the originating source (author) takes an interest in these coins.

    Perhaps, as we get closer to the anniversary date there maybe more interest but only if there is some type of push to promote the coins.

    This was the Associated Press news release back in Dec 18. Did anyone see a blurb about this in your local news (paper, radio, TV, etc.) outside of the coin community/news?
    ——-
    Mint launches commemorative coins marking moon landing
    December 13, 2018

    PHILADELPHIA (AP) — The U.S. Mint in Philadelphia is marking the 50th anniversary of the first moon landing by launching a new commemorative coin.

    The children of Apollo 11 crew members Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were on hand at the mint Thursday at the first pressing of the 2019 Apollo 11 50th Anniversary Proof Silver Dollar.

    Congress has directed the mint to strike and issue up to 50,000 gold coins, 400,000 silver dollar coins, 750,000 clad half dollar coins and 100,000 five-ounce silver proof coins.

    The coins will not be available to the public until January.

    Next July will mark the 50th anniversary of the first manned moon landing by Apollo 11′s Neil Armstrong and Aldrin.

    https://apnews.com/929822cec3dc498ab6f7143ff10c093f
    ——-

    Edit. All it would take is for someone to add into the newscaster’s teleprompter (we all know they read from a script) a quick blurb... “Apollo coins are being sold by the US Mint to commemorate the anniversary.” When/if the news brings up the Apollo 11 anniversary.

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BigA said:

    Got my set yesterday - the error is still there. I have a feeling the Mint does not care about it.

    I believe the sets that have been delivered recently (mine are coming Monday and Tuesday) were shipped before the Mint discovered the issue....wasn't backordered for very long and orders placed during the backorder have also been shipped (mine coming Friday)...so either they had some rapid reprints or, yes, they said screw it

    sigh...

    “Approximately 70,000 units were shipped before the error was discovered,” according to a statement released by the U.S. Mint the afternoon of Jan. 29. “Plans to reprint sleeves with the correct information are underway. Instructions for ordering corrected sleeves will be made available at a later date.

    You can find the post here:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12221511/#Comment_12221511

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @planetsteve said:
    I've gotta question on the puck backorders. I had my order in for five of them well within the first ten minutes of the Mint opening them for purchase. Nevertheless, my pucks are still on BO. So... is the Mint pretty good at fulfilling orders in the order they were received? Or could I really end up waiting until October? :'(:#

    My 12:05 order that had 2 pucks shipped.
    My 12:08 order that had 1 puck got backordered.

    So the backorders stared someplace between those times. If you were 10 minutes in, you're on backorder.

    Backorders should be filled in the order they were received, but much of that might depend on the pick lists generated when more inventory comes in....

  • BigABigA Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭

    @planetsteve said:
    I've gotta question on the puck backorders. I had my order in for five of them well within the first ten minutes of the Mint opening them for purchase. Nevertheless, my pucks are still on BO. So... is the Mint pretty good at fulfilling orders in the order they were received? Or could I really end up waiting until October? :'(:#

    Two comments: If your orders were placed at the beginning of backorder status then you SHOULD be in the first group shipped at the end of October..but...with that said....I would hazard a guess that they will ship well before October...just a hunch and the fact that in stock dates are usually exaggerated to the long side

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hemispherical said:

    @ADG said:
    I wonder how good a job (if any) the Mint does of making the general public aware of these Apollo coins.
    Plenty of sales material sent to a coin community which already knows about them, but what about a broader focus for this type of coin?

    The only areas outside of the coin community seems to be specific to what the coin commemorates.

    In the case of this coin, only those who follow “space” related news and even then it is limited and only if the originating source (author) takes an interest in these coins.

    Perhaps, as we get closer to the anniversary date there maybe more interest but only if there is some type of push to promote the coins.

    This was the Associated Press news release back in Dec 18. Did anyone see a blurb about this in your local news (paper, radio, TV, etc.) outside of the coin community/news?
    ——-
    Mint launches commemorative coins marking moon landing
    December 13, 2018

    PHILADELPHIA (AP) — The U.S. Mint in Philadelphia is marking the 50th anniversary of the first moon landing by launching a new commemorative coin.

    The children of Apollo 11 crew members Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were on hand at the mint Thursday at the first pressing of the 2019 Apollo 11 50th Anniversary Proof Silver Dollar.

    Congress has directed the mint to strike and issue up to 50,000 gold coins, 400,000 silver dollar coins, 750,000 clad half dollar coins and 100,000 five-ounce silver proof coins.

    The coins will not be available to the public until January.

    Next July will mark the 50th anniversary of the first manned moon landing by Apollo 11′s Neil Armstrong and Aldrin.

    https://apnews.com/929822cec3dc498ab6f7143ff10c093f
    ——-

    Edit. All it would take is for someone to add into the newscaster’s teleprompter (we all know they read from a script) a quick blurb... “Apollo coins are being sold by the US Mint to commemorate the anniversary.” When/if the news brings up the Apollo 11 anniversary.

    Prepare to be disappointed.

    The Mint's marketing department... SUCKS. Apparently, their idea of advertising a coin is a press release, but it doesn't go beyond that. (Other than the snail mail they send out to previous customers.)

    The BBHoF silver and gold sold out rather quickly, but they still had a few hundred thousand clads left. Think they could have done an ad during a game, say the all-star game? Nope. Don't think I've ever seen a Mint advertisement in a magazine either, but truthfully, it's been a decade since I really read a print magazine... :D

    Come to think of it, I don't think there's a marketing budget in the Annual Report. I should go and look. I sometimes wonder if there's some law against it...

  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2019 1:36PM

    @Goldminers said:
    Just for reference, I sent in a few ATB's the first year 5 ounce Nat'l Parks what I thought had "faint smudges" probably from the cotton gloves they wear handling them sliding. Anyway, I ended up with 65-68 grades and NEVER again will I waste money grading newly Minted modern coins with spots, uneven finishes, smudges, nicks, pits, edges out of round, etc. They are not worth much more than melt in the 65-68 slabs in most cases.

    You know your right why am I sending in a smudged coin for grading only to get stuck with the coin. I guess I got caught up in the hype and the fact they did not even have enough to sell people. I am just going to resend the smudged coin back to the Mint. I got plenty of the others. I guess I am learning last year I would of sent it in for grading without looking for defects. Thank you.
    If I really want a 69 I can always buy later.

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PlanetSteve: I have yet to see any rhyme or reason to how the Mint ships out products during the initial ordering.
    At times, those that have been late ordering get them first and visa versa. It is a luck of the draw. A lottery.
    Much like this Puck being one of the first true “first strike” coins, as someone had noted earlier in this thread....and given the drawn-out backorder status, who knows.
    This beast of a coin could be THE sleeper for the year.
    In the end, like it or hate it, PCGS FS dictates the higher end market for moderns.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gluggo said:

    @Goldminers said:
    Just for reference, I sent in a few ATB's the first year 5 ounce Nat'l Parks what I thought had "faint smudges" probably from the cotton gloves they wear handling them sliding. Anyway, I ended up with 65-68 grades and NEVER again will I waste money grading newly Minted modern coins with spots, uneven finishes, smudges, nicks, pits, edges out of round, etc. They are not worth much more than melt in the 65-68 slabs in most cases.

    You know your right why am I sending in a smudged coin for grading only to get stuck with the coin. I guess I got caught up in the hype and the fact they did not even have enough to sell people. I am just going to resend the smudged coin back to the Mint. I got plenty of the others. I guess I am learning last year I would of sent it in for grading without looking for defects. Thank you.
    If I really want a 69 I can always buy later.

    Hey there neighbor/friend -- I've got 10 waiting for me at the PO when I return next week. I wasn't planning on submitting more than a couple. I'd be willing to trade you one-up (straight across) if I have several that look like they will make the high grade. I'll sell the rest anyway (cost recovery), so it's a no loss situation for both of us. Karma comes around, eh? Don't send yours back yet!! PM me -- I'm in and out of cell coverage this week, so may be a delay. :)

    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The October backorder remains...
    So a question, how many would bother ordering, tying up the money in your CC, with that time frame?

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.

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