<< <i>So if no 1964 Peace dollars exists - how did you know what die alterations and markers to make to prevent it from looking like the real deal? >>
Here is the marker on mine (multi-punched mint mark). The probablilty that an original surviving 1964-D Peace dollar (if any) would have this marker is nil:
>>
edited to remove my comment after DC edited his link that made my comment nonsensical
Don't know about the Feds but eBay isn't buying your claims:
"You recently listed the following listing:
220669801444 - 1964-D Peace Silver Dollar - Genuine Silver / US Dollar
Unfortunately, we had to remove your listing because the following information violates our policy:
Replica coins must be permanently marked as such and listings must include images that show the item is appropriately marked. For listing on eBay, this includes the 1964-D silver dollar.
You are free to relist the coin but it must be listed according to our replica coin guidelines."
Please cease further orders and ship all that have been paid to date - IMMEDIATELY!!!
<< <i>DC - I can see why you would want/need to protect your process... if you can take 200 Peace dollars, clean and prepare each coin to a technical grade of MS-68, than anyone with your knowledge could create any date in the Peace dollar series (or any other series for that matter) as an MS-68. That would be a coup to the doctor... and a loss to the coin collecting community. Would PCGS even realize a coin was "doctored" if someone discovered your process? >>
Taking an original coin and overstriking it with exactly the same design to improve the grade and fix defects would be the ultimate form of "coin doctoring". It would be legal to do, so long as full disclosure is made when selling the item. But rest assured, such activity is something that I would NOT do. I will only take coins and modify them to look like something that didn't actually exist. And along the way I will hopefully discover, and document for the numismatic comminity, things to look for to detect any such over-struck coins.
I'm happy with the overall appearance of my 1964-D fantasy over-struck Peace Dollars. To the naked eye, they look really good. But under strong magnification, there are differences (mostly in the surface texture and very fine details). Enough of a difference that if I had put a date of "1934" on them, they would not fool a competent coin authenticator/grader.
I do not believe for one second that DCarr is trying to pull a fast one or in any way defraud anyone. He has done research and drawn a conclusion from that research that his activities are legal and that the product itself does not violate any laws. That conclusion may be right and it may be wrong. I personally feel that it may be wrong, but I always try to look at the issue from the most conservative point of view. If Mr. Carr was my client, I would advise him that he needs to stamp "Copy" or some similar statement on the coin so as to be clearly in compliance with the Hobby Protection Act. Maybe he has consulted legal counsel and was told otherwise. If so, my recommendation to him is to get that counsel to put that opinion in writing. He may face some legal action in the future, and if he relied on legal counsel's opinion that it was legal, he could have recourse against the lawyer for his costs/fines/etc.
That said, this coin and the 2009 Proof Eagle overstrike are "fantasy coins"; an artist's rendition of what such a coin would look like if it had been made. It is interesting that for the proof SAE, he used his private mark DC, yet for the 64 Peace, he just used the Denver "D". I would have advised against using the "D" mint mark, especially since the coin was not marked as a replica.
I will not buy this coin for a couple of reasons. First, it requires the destruction of an actual Peace Dollar. As a VAM collector, I find myself wondering if any rare or undiscovered VAM has been lost forever because of this? Second, I see this as no different than the colorized coins that are sold on HSN and ebay... an alteration, a destructive one at that, that has ruined a piece of history. Third, the price. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that this overstruck "art piece" is worth that price. Mr. Carr is entitled to charge what he wants and others willing to pay that price are free to do so. I just will not be one of them. Finally, I see a substantial risk that the overstruck coin could be seen as violating the Hobby Protection Act or other federal law and thus be subject to confiscation. If the Secret Service decides to go after this, they will require Mr. Carr to give up the names of everyone who bought one and they will pay them a visit. Yes, the purchasers may have recourse to go after Mr. Carr for refunds, but he may not be able to make them if facing sunstantial fines and legal costs.
I do not mean to criticize Mr. Carr's talent. He has produced very beautiful works of art. His talent is, in my opinion, at an elite level level with few peers. I just think that this overstrike and the 2009 Proof SAE have crossed the line.
Raybob, since you began typing your post..till you ended...in this era of $20 silver...do you know how many genuine peace dollars have been turned in/sold to/ melted by various individuals?
<< <i>Raybob, since you began typing your post..till you ended...in this era of $20 silver...do you know how many genuine peace dollars have been turned in/sold to/ melted by various individuals?
probably more than Dan is using. >>
I can guarantee it's a lot more.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>... I will not buy this coin for a couple of reasons. First, it requires the destruction of an actual Peace Dollar. As a VAM collector, I find myself wondering if any rare or undiscovered VAM has been lost forever because of this? ... >>
I know my VAMs, and I check all the coins before over-striking them. In an earlier batch of junk Peace dollars I bought a couple weeks ago, I found and "saved" this one: 1922 VAM-2C
<< <i>The closeups make this look a lot liek a Matte Proof, anyone else get that impression?
So....as a pocket piece, in a few years...grades basically XF, it should look "real". >>
The luster is quite "satiny". I strike them four times at 250+ tons to get a good impression. On the next batch I may try striking them once at 300+ tons. That would likely yield a different type of luster.
<< <i>Raybob, since you began typing your post..till you ended...in this era of $20 silver...do you know how many genuine peace dollars have been turned in/sold to/ melted by various individuals?
probably more than Dan is using. >>
I can guarantee it's a lot more. >>
Believe me, I am very much aware of that fact. Many, many Peace and Morgan dollars hit the smelter's furnace over the years and many more will. Usually, though, its the culls that get melted. The coins Mr. Carr uses are presumably better grade.
<< <i>The coins Mr. Carr uses are presumably better grade. >>
I use VF-AU grades. Any really nice AUs, pretty colors, or good VAMS are set aside and not obliterated. I especially like to use heavily cleaned/polished/scrubbed coins since they are often a bit cheaper to buy, and the cleaning doesn't affect the final result. One thing I can't use are coins that are heavily gouged or deeply rim-nicked.
<< <i>The closeups make this look a lot liek a Matte Proof, anyone else get that impression?
So....as a pocket piece, in a few years...grades basically XF, it should look "real". >>
The luster is quite "satiny". I strike them four times at 250+ tons to get a good impression. On the next batch I may try striking them once at 300+ tons. That would likely yield a different type of luster. >>
Oh, great! Now I've got to collector type (batch) one and type (batch two!
<< <i>Just ordered mine, Dan can you make mine off center >>
Good try, but sorry, no. Adding "error" coins to the mix would complicate things too much. >>
I know it wouldn't work as I have asked you in the past about errors. My fantasy piece would be not an off center but a double struck off center with two 1964 Dates.
Here is my take for what its worth, I can see why a coin like this would be controversial. On the one hand, it gives average collectors a chance to indulge and own something that they otherwise would not for whatever reasons. I see Dcarr doing a service to collectors similar to what Bashlow did with the confederate cents. Putting "copy" on it just makes it much less appealing to own and takes away from the "mythical" effect a coin like this has. But also on the other hand, It's a risky venture because even though technically legal, these peace dollars will just make it that much more difficult for the government to identify a real coin should one ever arise. And government agencies simply dont like things that make their job any harder. Taking all that into account I do agree with what he is doing, and believe it will have a positive outcome. If it was me though, I would try to do some more to cover my butt, as far as talking with gov agencies. I mean someone somewhere has to know the answer, the key is to find that person. I would start by talking with the agency's legal department. If you get a green light from a gov. official in an authority position, that would probably go along way if legal action was ever brought against you.
<< <i>...But also on the other hand, It's a risky venture because even though technically legal, these peace dollars will just make it that much more difficult for the government to identify a real coin should one ever arise. And government agencies simply dont like things that make their job any harder. >>
I don't see how the production of these items would make it more difficult for the government (or anyone else) to identify a genuine one.
<< <i>...But also on the other hand, It's a risky venture because even though technically legal, these peace dollars will just make it that much more difficult for the government to identify a real coin should one ever arise. And government agencies simply dont like things that make their job any harder. >>
I don't see how the production of these items would make it more difficult for the government (or anyone else) to identify a genuine one. >>
Ok maybe Im not giving the gov. enough credit. But I wonder how long it would take them, they probably dont employ pcgs quality graders at the SS. They still havent made their minds up about the 59 wheat cent, And everytime a member of the non collecting public comes across one of these, they will have to expend time and cash to check it out, just a thought
Ive already decided what to do with mine. Im getting one of those plastic Mint set holders, that goes from the cent to the dollar...and doing a 1964 Mint set.
..and yes, should raise some eyebrows at the local coin club meeting.
<< <i>The coins Mr. Carr uses are presumably better grade. >>
I use VF-AU grades. Any really nice AUs, pretty colors, or good VAMS are set aside and not obliterated. I especially like to use heavily cleaned/polished/scrubbed coins since they are often a bit cheaper to buy, and the cleaning doesn't affect the final result. One thing I can't use are coins that are heavily gouged or deeply rim-nicked. >>
Given this statement, I can only assume you bought these from C2C!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>...But also on the other hand, It's a risky venture because even though technically legal, these peace dollars will just make it that much more difficult for the government to identify a real coin should one ever arise. And government agencies simply dont like things that make their job any harder. >>
I don't see how the production of these items would make it more difficult for the government (or anyone else) to identify a genuine one. >>
Ok maybe Im not giving the gov. enough credit. But I wonder how long it would take them, they probably dont employ pcgs quality graders at the SS. They still havent made their minds up about the 59 wheat cent, And everytime a member of the non collecting public comes across one of these, they will have to expend time and cash to check it out, just a thought >>
The government already has laws in place specifically to keep them from having to identify pieces such as these. If they allow this piece to exist (which is certainly possible), it only makes it harder to prosecute a more serious case. This piece is not technically legal by the letter of the law.
<< <i>The closeups make this look a lot liek a Matte Proof, anyone else get that impression?
So....as a pocket piece, in a few years...grades basically XF, it should look "real". >>
The luster is quite "satiny". I strike them four times at 250+ tons to get a good impression. On the next batch I may try striking them once at 300+ tons. That would likely yield a different type of luster. >>
Next batch(?) As long as it's part of the 2,000 or less group.
<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve anyone with the production of this coin like the chinese do, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery.
<< <i>How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit? >>
How does this differ from the New Haven Fugio "restrike" other than "COPY" wasn't required back then? At least this coin is counterstruck over a real peace dollar. Also, how can you counterfeit a coin that doesn't exist? I'm taking the mint at their word that all 1964 dollars were destroyed.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their[sic] is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve[sic] anyone with the production of this coin, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery.
...not sure how something does not exist while there is a chance that it does exist.
<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve anyone with the production of this coin like the chinese do, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery. >>
So, the 1798-CC Trade Dollar that some guy brought into the store that he bought in China is not a counterveit because there are no genuine 1798-CC Trade Dollars? Is that what you are saying?
Daniel could easily make these 1964-D's legal by stamping them with the word "COPY." I cannot understand why he is so adamant against doing so.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their[sic] is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve[sic] anyone with the production of this coin, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery.
...not sure how something does not exist while there is a chance that it does exist. >>
I hear you brother, but case in point, 1933 st gaudens, they don't exist either, right. Its the G-man's definition of exist that's somewhat shaky, not mine
<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve anyone with the production of this coin like the chinese do, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery. >>
And.........and............shipped off to Ft. Knox to join the the rest of "The Nations Most Treasured Numismatic Specimens"!
Actually, I don't look at these as counterfeits but as the Fantsy Piece that they really are since the common belief is that the coin does not exist. Should an authentic piece turn up, then peryhaps they could be considered counterfeits.
While were talking about counterfeits, how many out there are proud of their "Henning Nickel" finds?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve anyone with the production of this coin like the chinese do, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery. >>
So, the 1798-CC Trade Dollar that some guy brought into the store that he bought in China is not a counterveit because there are no genuine 1798-CC Trade Dollars? Is that what you are saying?
Daniel could easily make these 1964-D's legal by stamping them with the word "COPY." I cannot understand why he is so adamant against doing so.
TD >>
Great Point Tom to which I have no response.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>...not sure how something does not exist while there is a chance that it does exist. >>
Schrödinger's Cat >>
Aliens, you can't prove they exist, but you cant prove they dont either. Same with the 64 peace >>
Unicorns?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
So, the 1798-CC Trade Dollar that some guy brought into the store that he bought in China is not a counterveit because there are no genuine 1798-CC Trade Dollars? Is that what you are saying?
Daniel could easily make these 1964-D's legal by stamping them with the word "COPY." I cannot understand why he is so adamant against doing so.
<< <i>I don't see how the production of these items would make it more difficult for the government ... to identify a genuine one. >>
Are you sure? Didn't the government determine (twice, I think) that a 1959-D wheat cent was a legitimate mint product, while non-government experts tend to believe it's not?
<< <i>Daniel could easily make these 1964-D's legal by stamping them with the word "COPY." I cannot understand why he is so adamant against doing so. >>
I don't think this is that complicated. He explained that, based on his research, they are legal without them.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>So if no 1964 Peace dollars exists - how did you know what die alterations and markers to make to prevent it from looking like the real deal? >>
Here is the marker on mine (multi-punched mint mark). The probablilty that an original surviving 1964-D Peace dollar (if any) would have this marker is nil:
edited to remove my comment after DC edited his link that made my comment nonsensical
Don't know about the Feds but eBay isn't buying your claims:
"You recently listed the following listing:
220669801444 - 1964-D Peace Silver Dollar - Genuine Silver / US Dollar
Unfortunately, we had to remove your listing because the following information violates our policy:
Replica coins must be permanently marked as such and listings must include images that show the item is appropriately marked. For listing on eBay, this includes the 1964-D silver dollar.
You are free to relist the coin but it must be listed according to our replica coin guidelines."
Please cease further orders and ship all that have been paid to date - IMMEDIATELY!!!
<< <i>DC - I can see why you would want/need to protect your process... if you can take 200 Peace dollars, clean and prepare each coin to a technical grade of MS-68, than anyone with your knowledge could create any date in the Peace dollar series (or any other series for that matter) as an MS-68. That would be a coup to the doctor... and a loss to the coin collecting community. Would PCGS even realize a coin was "doctored" if someone discovered your process? >>
Taking an original coin and overstriking it with exactly the same design to improve the grade and fix defects would be the ultimate form of "coin doctoring".
It would be legal to do, so long as full disclosure is made when selling the item. But rest assured, such activity is something that I would NOT do.
I will only take coins and modify them to look like something that didn't actually exist. And along the way I will hopefully discover, and document
for the numismatic comminity, things to look for to detect any such over-struck coins.
I'm happy with the overall appearance of my 1964-D fantasy over-struck Peace Dollars. To the naked eye, they look really good. But under strong magnification,
there are differences (mostly in the surface texture and very fine details). Enough of a difference that if I had put a date of "1934" on them, they would not fool a competent coin authenticator/grader.
Coins & Paper Money > Exonumia > Medals
or
Coins & Paper Money > Exonumia > Fantasy Issue Coins ?
Eric
Edited to add - as a non-copy marked fantasy thingie...
That said, this coin and the 2009 Proof Eagle overstrike are "fantasy coins"; an artist's rendition of what such a coin would look like if it had been made. It is interesting that for the proof SAE, he used his private mark DC, yet for the 64 Peace, he just used the Denver "D". I would have advised against using the "D" mint mark, especially since the coin was not marked as a replica.
I will not buy this coin for a couple of reasons. First, it requires the destruction of an actual Peace Dollar. As a VAM collector, I find myself wondering if any rare or undiscovered VAM has been lost forever because of this? Second, I see this as no different than the colorized coins that are sold on HSN and ebay... an alteration, a destructive one at that, that has ruined a piece of history. Third, the price. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that this overstruck "art piece" is worth that price. Mr. Carr is entitled to charge what he wants and others willing to pay that price are free to do so. I just will not be one of them. Finally, I see a substantial risk that the overstruck coin could be seen as violating the Hobby Protection Act or other federal law and thus be subject to confiscation. If the Secret Service decides to go after this, they will require Mr. Carr to give up the names of everyone who bought one and they will pay them a visit. Yes, the purchasers may have recourse to go after Mr. Carr for refunds, but he may not be able to make them if facing sunstantial fines and legal costs.
I do not mean to criticize Mr. Carr's talent. He has produced very beautiful works of art. His talent is, in my opinion, at an elite level level with few peers. I just think that this overstrike and the 2009 Proof SAE have crossed the line.
probably more than Dan is using.
<< <i>Raybob, since you began typing your post..till you ended...in this era of $20 silver...do you know how many genuine peace dollars have been turned in/sold to/ melted by various individuals?
probably more than Dan is using. >>
I can guarantee it's a lot more.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>...
I will not buy this coin for a couple of reasons. First, it requires the destruction of an actual Peace Dollar. As a VAM collector, I find myself wondering if any rare or undiscovered VAM has been lost forever because of this? ... >>
I know my VAMs, and I check all the coins before over-striking them.
In an earlier batch of junk Peace dollars I bought a couple weeks ago, I found and "saved" this one:
1922 VAM-2C
So....as a pocket piece, in a few years...grades basically XF, it should look "real".
<< <i>Just ordered mine, Dan can you make mine off center
Good try, but sorry, no. Adding "error" coins to the mix would complicate things too much.
<< <i>The closeups make this look a lot liek a Matte Proof, anyone else get that impression?
So....as a pocket piece, in a few years...grades basically XF, it should look "real". >>
The luster is quite "satiny". I strike them four times at 250+ tons to get a good impression.
On the next batch I may try striking them once at 300+ tons. That would likely yield a different
type of luster.
<< <i>
<< <i>Raybob, since you began typing your post..till you ended...in this era of $20 silver...do you know how many genuine peace dollars have been turned in/sold to/ melted by various individuals?
probably more than Dan is using. >>
I can guarantee it's a lot more.
Believe me, I am very much aware of that fact. Many, many Peace and Morgan dollars hit the smelter's furnace over the years and many more will. Usually, though, its the culls that get melted. The coins Mr. Carr uses are presumably better grade.
<< <i>The coins Mr. Carr uses are presumably better grade. >>
I use VF-AU grades. Any really nice AUs, pretty colors, or good VAMS are set aside and not obliterated.
I especially like to use heavily cleaned/polished/scrubbed coins since they are often a bit cheaper to buy,
and the cleaning doesn't affect the final result. One thing I can't use are coins that are heavily gouged
or deeply rim-nicked.
<< <i>
<< <i>The closeups make this look a lot liek a Matte Proof, anyone else get that impression?
So....as a pocket piece, in a few years...grades basically XF, it should look "real". >>
The luster is quite "satiny". I strike them four times at 250+ tons to get a good impression.
On the next batch I may try striking them once at 300+ tons. That would likely yield a different
type of luster. >>
Oh, great!
Now I've got to collector type (batch) one and type (batch two!
peacockcoins
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just ordered mine, Dan can you make mine off center
Good try, but sorry, no. Adding "error" coins to the mix would complicate things too much. >>
I know it wouldn't work as I have asked you in the past about errors. My fantasy piece would be not an off center but a double struck off center with two 1964 Dates.
<< <i>...But also on the other hand, It's a risky venture because even though technically legal, these peace dollars will just make it that much more difficult for the government to identify a real coin should one ever arise. And government agencies simply dont like things that make their job any harder. >>
I don't see how the production of these items would make it more difficult for the government (or anyone else) to identify a genuine one.
<< <i>
<< <i>...But also on the other hand, It's a risky venture because even though technically legal, these peace dollars will just make it that much more difficult for the government to identify a real coin should one ever arise. And government agencies simply dont like things that make their job any harder. >>
I don't see how the production of these items would make it more difficult for the government (or anyone else) to identify a genuine one. >>
..and yes, should raise some eyebrows at the local coin club meeting.
<< <i>
<< <i>The coins Mr. Carr uses are presumably better grade. >>
I use VF-AU grades. Any really nice AUs, pretty colors, or good VAMS are set aside and not obliterated.
I especially like to use heavily cleaned/polished/scrubbed coins since they are often a bit cheaper to buy,
and the cleaning doesn't affect the final result. One thing I can't use are coins that are heavily gouged
or deeply rim-nicked. >>
Given this statement, I can only assume you bought these from C2C!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>...But also on the other hand, It's a risky venture because even though technically legal, these peace dollars will just make it that much more difficult for the government to identify a real coin should one ever arise. And government agencies simply dont like things that make their job any harder. >>
I don't see how the production of these items would make it more difficult for the government (or anyone else) to identify a genuine one. >>
The government already has laws in place specifically to keep them from having to identify pieces such as these. If they allow this piece to exist (which is certainly possible), it only makes it harder to prosecute a more serious case. This piece is not technically legal by the letter of the law.
<< <i>
<< <i>The closeups make this look a lot liek a Matte Proof, anyone else get that impression?
So....as a pocket piece, in a few years...grades basically XF, it should look "real". >>
The luster is quite "satiny". I strike them four times at 250+ tons to get a good impression.
On the next batch I may try striking them once at 300+ tons. That would likely yield a different
type of luster. >>
Next batch(?) As long as it's part of the 2,000 or less group.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule…
<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
He's makeing them here in the good old USA.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve anyone with the production of this coin like the chinese do, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery.
<< <i>Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
<< <i>How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit? >>
How does this differ from the New Haven Fugio "restrike" other than "COPY" wasn't required back then? At least this coin is counterstruck over a real peace dollar. Also, how can you counterfeit a coin that doesn't exist? I'm taking the mint at their word that all 1964 dollars were destroyed.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
...not sure how something does not exist while there is a chance that it does exist.
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<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve anyone with the production of this coin like the chinese do, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery. >>
So, the 1798-CC Trade Dollar that some guy brought into the store that he bought in China is not a counterveit because there are no genuine 1798-CC Trade Dollars? Is that what you are saying?
Daniel could easily make these 1964-D's legal by stamping them with the word "COPY." I cannot understand why he is so adamant against doing so.
TD
<< <i>I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their[sic] is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve[sic] anyone with the production of this coin, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery.
...not sure how something does not exist while there is a chance that it does exist. >>
I hear you brother, but case in point, 1933 st gaudens, they don't exist either, right. Its the G-man's definition of exist that's somewhat shaky, not mine
<< <i>...not sure how something does not exist while there is a chance that it does exist. >>
Schrödinger's Cat
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<< <i>...not sure how something does not exist while there is a chance that it does exist. >>
Schrödinger's Cat >>
Aliens, you can't prove they exist, but you cant prove they dont either. Same with the 64 peace
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<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve anyone with the production of this coin like the chinese do, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery. >>
And.........and............shipped off to Ft. Knox to join the the rest of "The Nations Most Treasured Numismatic Specimens"!
Actually, I don't look at these as counterfeits but as the Fantsy Piece that they really are since the common belief is that the coin does not exist. Should an authentic piece turn up, then peryhaps they could be considered counterfeits.
While were talking about counterfeits, how many out there are proud of their "Henning Nickel" finds?
The name is LEE!
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<< <i>Love what you've done here, Dan! I hope to add it to my collection soon! Keep up the great innovation. Maybe the Mint will learn something.
How does this differ from a Chinese counterfeit?
Very sad to see this happen and to find so many who justify counterfeiting coins. Maybe the hobby of coin collecting is dead, and the zombies rule… >>
I don't buy the counterfeiting argument, its a fantasy coin. The 1964 peace dollar does not exist, their is no reason to stamp copy. No one is trying to decieve anyone with the production of this coin like the chinese do, it is for collectors. And if by some chance a real one does exist, it does not matter anyways because that coin is illegal and the owner has no rights to it, and it will be seized immediately upon discovery. >>
So, the 1798-CC Trade Dollar that some guy brought into the store that he bought in China is not a counterveit because there are no genuine 1798-CC Trade Dollars? Is that what you are saying?
Daniel could easily make these 1964-D's legal by stamping them with the word "COPY." I cannot understand why he is so adamant against doing so.
TD >>
Great Point Tom to which I have no response.
The name is LEE!
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<< <i>...not sure how something does not exist while there is a chance that it does exist. >>
Schrödinger's Cat >>
Aliens, you can't prove they exist, but you cant prove they dont either. Same with the 64 peace >>
Unicorns?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Speaking of 400, I believe that is about what the mintage on these will be.
peacockcoins
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So, the 1798-CC Trade Dollar that some guy brought into the store that he bought in China is not a counterveit because there are no genuine 1798-CC Trade Dollars? Is that what you are saying?
Daniel could easily make these 1964-D's legal by stamping them with the word "COPY." I cannot understand why he is so adamant against doing so.
TD >>
Very well said.
<< <i>I don't see how the production of these items would make it more difficult for the government ... to identify a genuine one. >>
Are you sure? Didn't the government determine (twice, I think) that a 1959-D wheat cent was a legitimate mint product, while non-government experts tend to believe it's not?
<< <i>Daniel could easily make these 1964-D's legal by stamping them with the word "COPY." I cannot understand why he is so adamant against doing so. >>
I don't think this is that complicated. He explained that, based on his research, they are legal without them.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......