<< <i>I can swear on a stack of Constitutions that I have witnessed with my own eyes a peace dollar, bearing a 1964 date, leave the minting room at the Denver mint. There are several living witnesses besides myself. It was not removed clandestinely, nor under the circumstances described by Mr. DeLorey involving purchase at the mint cashier. I have no reason to believe it was ever returned to the mint. >>
I for one believe there are a small number that did actually leave, since well look after all these years there are now 11 known examples of the 1933 $20, there are known and graded examples of the 1974 aluminium cent.
But swearing on a Constitution, swearing at all? Is swearing really necessary?
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
Speaking for myself, it's a very cool item. I just ordered one as it takes me back to the days of yesteryear when all the rumors were flying concerning its existence. As for the price, well he is an ongoing business, and I'm sure that the price would be much less if DCarr was willing to work for 3 cents a day, a bowl of rice, and strike them in aluminum while working in some back alley hovel illuminated by candlelight. There will always be folks who will whine over the price of any issue that exceeds 4% over melt whether it comes out of a government mint or private entity.
I look forward to receiving mine.
Forum AdministratorPSA & PSA/DNA ForumModerator@collectors.com | p 800.325.1121 | PSAcard.com
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Of course, you're not sure... and the buyers of this "coin" will believe you when they're told of the final "mintage", right?
LOL >>
Yes, they will. I methodically publish all my mintage figures, including varieties. And I hold to them. My customers who have bought coins from me since about 2005 can attest to that.
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Of course, you're not sure... and the buyers of this "coin" will believe you when they're told of the final "mintage", right?
LOL >>
Yes, they will. I methodically publish all my mintage figures, including varieties. And I hold to them. My customers who have bought coins from me since about 2005 can attest to that. >>
I seem to recall I have one that has a mintage of in the 80s since the die bought the farm early on.
I am going to order one today. Damnable capitalist foolery me thinks, but I have to have one.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
"...They would if you used a real $100 bill to create it, its not a counterfeit, it is a real, in your example, altered $100 bill. It has been monetized. If you took that same real $100 bill and wrote by hand on it 1927 with the date, it would be the same thing, just better art. Its an altered real $100 bill. Its the same as altering a penny, nickel, etc..."
He took a coin that WAS legally a dollar and altered the date on it - making it NO MORE OR NO LESS still a dollar.
You know Dan you ought to be a bass fisherman 'cause you could make a lure which would catch even fish who dont like the particular ethical path you took in creating the lure.
Yeah....I ordered one too
...next, I want one of the 1910 VDB pennies..........and after that, I want an 1854 C gold dollar........and after that, I want a 1963 Kennedy Half dollar, and after that I want.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Promise us one thing...if this all goes horribly wrong, send us your number and the address of the correctional institution they put you in, so we can write you.
Dan, I say cap mintage at way less than that 2000, and would say to keep it closer to some of your other pieces. Are you imposing a timeframe for production at least? I'd rather my $115 go toward something that is along mintage-par with the other pieces I have of yours.
I just placed an order for two. They look really neat. Being a small operation, I'm expecting a wait to get them. If ICG slabs them, any idea what they'll put on the slab label? It shouldn't say "restrike" since the original dies weren't used.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I just placed an order for two. They look really neat. Being a small operation, I'm expecting a wait to get them. If ICG slabs them, any idea what they'll put on the slab label? It shouldn't say "restrike" since the original dies weren't used. >>
Last order I put in showed up in like 5 days IIRC.
<< <i>I just placed an order for two. They look really neat. Being a small operation, I'm expecting a wait to get them. If ICG slabs them, any idea what they'll put on the slab label? It shouldn't say "restrike" since the original dies weren't used. >>
Last order I put in showed up in like 5 days IIRC. >>
Due to this thread, I'm sure he's gotten several hundred orders in the last two days so I imagine he'll be quite busy for the next few weeks.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I just placed an order for two. They look really neat. Being a small operation, I'm expecting a wait to get them. If ICG slabs them, any idea what they'll put on the slab label? It shouldn't say "restrike" since the original dies weren't used. >>
Last order I put in showed up in like 5 days IIRC. >>
Due to this thread, I'm sure he's gotten several hundred orders in the last two days so I imagine he'll be quite busy for the next few weeks. >>
Doubt it. Probably had a initial batch minted already and 'DCarr slabbed' and ready to go. I'd seriously expect them to show up in under a week.
And with everyone beeching and moaning in here about it, you gotta wonder how many of the legal naysayers are ordering or not.
What kind of packaging comes with this coin? Special holder or just a flip?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
RE: Existence of 1964-D trial strikes (from May 1965).
All of the documentation I could find is in the lengthy chapter in “A Guide Book for Peace Dollars” (Whitman Publishing LLC 2009). I recommend reading that chapter before speculating or depending on unsubstantiated stories. Also, original affidavits exist.
<< <i>I can swear on a stack of Constitutions that I have witnessed with my own eyes a peace dollar, bearing a 1964 date, leave the minting room at the Denver mint. There are several living witnesses besides myself. It was not removed clandestinely, nor under the circumstances described by Mr. DeLorey involving purchase at the mint cashier. I have no reason to believe it was ever returned to the mint. >>
I for one believe there are a small number that did actually leave, since well look after all these years there are now 11 known examples of the 1933 $20, there are known and graded examples of the 1974 aluminium cent.
But swearing on a Constitution, swearing at all? Is swearing really necessary? >>
Hmmm. I'm thinking. I'm thinking that if a US Mint employee did acquire one or two of these and when asked to return them stated that he "spent them in a bar" that one would have shown up by now.
Now I'm thinking that if a US Mint employee did acquire one or two of these and when asked to return them stated that he "spent them in a bar" when he really still had them squirreled away with the intent of "cashing in" (45 years ago) that one would have shown up by now.
Now I'm thinking that if several of these had been squirreled away in 1965 and it was really that important to get them back, that the Federal Government and the Secret Service had more than enough authority and resources to interview each Denver Mint Employee (remember, it was 1965 and intimidation was used back then) involved with the coins, that they would have. Maybe they did?
Now I'm thinking that if LBJ had been given one as a momento and the fact that he's passed away and his wife Lady Bird has passed away, that it's existance would certainly have been uncovered by now. Especially since possession of this "particular" coin has not been WIDELY publicized, such as the 1933 Saint, as being illegal to own. Remember, in 1913, 5 nickels were obtained under "fraudulent" circumstances yet these are traded publically for millions. Also remember that the 1913 Liberty Nickels made their appearance a scant 12 years later. These coins were without a doubt, fraudulently produced and taken (or stolen) from the US Mint and are in fact the property of the United States subject to confiscation yet they are publically traded.
Now I'm thinking that if 1 or 2 or maybe 10 eventually show up, certainly the quality would be less than that produced by the US Mint as depicted in Daniel's photo's. His coin shows almost a sandblasted finish. His coin also strays from the original design with regard to the rays on the reverse and the apparent misplaced mint mark.
Okay, okay, now I'm thinking that the Treasury Department News release of May 31, 1973 was issued around the same time that error coins were being produced by enterprising Mint employees and smuggled out in the oil pan of a fork lift yet those coins are publically sold and traded without legal challenge.
Now I'm thinking that the odds that some of these coins still exist today are very slight. Yes, it's possible that some are out there but surely more than heresay would have substantiated their existance by now.
Whatever, it doesn't really matter to me. Daniel's coins will simply be appended to the numismatic history of the 1964-D Peace Dollar just like the Fantasy Fugio's, the Henning Nickels, and the Kellog Slugs, regardless of how the story turns out or ends.
Edited to Add: Dang! The order's certainly started piling up!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Speaking for myself, it's a very cool item. I just ordered one as it takes me back to the days of yesteryear when all the rumors were flying concerning its existence. As for the price, well he is an ongoing business, and I'm sure that the price would be much less if DCarr was willing to work for 3 cents a day, a bowl of rice, and strike them in aluminum while working in some back alley hovel illuminated by candlelight. There will always be folks who will whine over the price of any issue that exceeds 4% over melt whether it comes out of a government mint or private entity.
I'd like to add something in what will probably be my last post on this issue. In my view and opinion with respect to the issue, which is apart from any legal aspect of the creation and sale of the product, there are two things that bring this to a point for me. The first is that simply because one can take such action does not mean that one should take such action. The other is that even if there is no legal prohibition to an action it does not necessarily make it right to take such action. If someone wants to buy these then they want to buy these; I am not attempting to change anyone's decision in that matter.
I agree that this probably should not have been produced without the word copy (or some other designation) to clearly identify that this is an altered coin.
"...They would if you used a real $100 bill to create it, its not a counterfeit, it is a real, in your example, altered $100 bill. It has been monetized. If you took that same real $100 bill and wrote by hand on it 1927 with the date, it would be the same thing, just better art. Its an altered real $100 bill. Its the same as altering a penny, nickel, etc..."
He took a coin that WAS legally a dollar and altered the date on it - making it NO MORE OR NO LESS still a dollar.
Just ordered one. >>
But take a new $1, bleach it, and print a $1 silver cert over it. Or, print it crooked such that it is an "error" dollar.
That's a fake silver cert, or a fake error. Counterfeit?
I've ordered one. I'm hoping these are different enough from a real 1964D to not be a counterfeit.
"By purchasing one or more of these coins, the buyer agrees to provide full disclosure of their origin when reselling them. Failure to provide potential buyers with complete and accurate information when offering these coins could result in crimminal and/or civil fraud charges. In other words, don't even think about trying to sell these to unaware buyers as original 1964-D Peace silver dollars !"
So the website buyer sells his coin (with disclosure) to a third party, who sells the coin any which way he pleases. So much for disclosure. The problem with selling stuff is- it's hard to control what happens to it once it's no longer your stuff.
Oh, yeah (Laura Alert™)- there is only one "m" in "criminal".
<< <i>I'm uneasy about these not having "COPY" stamped on them. >>
If you ask him, I'm sure he can add "COPY" for you if you wish to buy one.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
DC - With all the postings, do you still intend on producing and selling these coins? If so, what is your estimated shipping timeline? Do you already have them "minted"? Are you considering adding "COPY" to the coin?
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Strike 1,964 pieces. Then stamp them COPY. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Strike 1,964 pieces. Then stamp them COPY. TD >>
I doubt that 1,964 would sell if they were stamped "COPY". I expect most people are buying them for the imminent controversy they are sure to receive from the Secret Service and potentially, the national media. They SCREAM potential flip!
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Strike 1,964 pieces. Then stamp them COPY. TD >>
I doubt that 1,964 would sell if they were stamped "COPY". I expect most people are buying them for the imminent controversy they are sure to receive from the Secret Service and potentially, the national media. They SCREAM potential flip! >>
I doubt the national media would care unless Glenn Beck started selling them on Fox News.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Strike 1,964 pieces. Then stamp them COPY. TD >>
I doubt that 1,964 would sell if they were stamped "COPY". I expect most people are buying them for the imminent controversy they are sure to receive from the Secret Service and potentially, the national media. They SCREAM potential flip! >>
I doubt the national media would care unless Glenn Beck started selling them on Fox News. >>
<< <i>As already mentioned, please ship quickly and destroy your records......quickly Just kidding, of course. You know it all's can argue till you're blue in the face....It's a cool conversation piece, I like it, I bought one without regret or guilt. I don't need the freakin Moral Majority controlling my buying decisions nor questioning my ethics. >>
Me too and now I wonder if our host would be willing to put it in a Genuine holder labeled as a D. Carr fantasy dollar. >>
That would be cool, a PCGS slabbed 1964-D restrike. I would send it in. >>
I'd prefer a PCGS holder, if not...since ANACS grades just about anything >>
From what I understand, ANACS will certify and slab Daniel's Amero coins (which BTW, are being counterfeited due to popularity. ) >>
I sure would like to see a D. Carr coin in one of those slabs...
<< <i>Can you release the name of the former Denver Mint employee? Has he made or is he able to make this statement on the record? This would be good information to add to our understanding of these coins if it was verifiable or at least attributable to a real person. >>
Excuse me? Though he signed our guest book, I did not make a note of his name. I was not then and am not now in the habit of divulging our (ANA) visitors' personal information.
This was approximately 1980. The gentleman was elderly and retired from the Mint at the time. I doubt he is still alive.
TD
P.S.: He was a real person, even if you wish to pretend that he was not.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Can you release the name of the former Denver Mint employee? Has he made or is he able to make this statement on the record? This would be good information to add to our understanding of these coins if it was verifiable or at least attributable to a real person. >>
Excuse me? Though he signed our guest book, I did not make a note of his name. I was not then and am not now in the habit of divulging our (ANA) visitors' personal information.
This was approximately 1980. The gentleman was elderly and retired from the Mint at the time. I doubt he is still alive.
TD
P.S.: He was a real person, even if you wish to pretend that he was not. >>
I am not debating whether he was a real person or not and I am not asking you to divulge his information without his consent. However, I am wondering if your story can be verified, Would you agree that a verifiable account would be more useful for research purposes? I do think it is very unfortunate for numismatics that it seems your account cannot be verified.
<< <i>Strike 1,964 pieces. Then stamp them COPY. >>
In 2002 the Gallery Mint Museum contracted with the Full Step Nickel Club to strike 1,938 pieces of Ron Landis' interpretation of the original Felix Schlag design for the 1938 US nickel, featuring the 3/4 view of Monticello on the reverse (which, acc'd to Landis, was a bear to engrave.) These were counterstamped on Jefferson's shoulder with "FSNC 2002". In the end, Gallery Mint only struck several hundred since demand from the FSNC members and friends was not so significant. These are still available from the club in proof or matte finish and slabbed by SEGS in numbered holders.
<< <i>Would you agree that a verifiable account would be more useful for research purposes? I do think it is very unfortunate for numismatics that it seems your account cannot be verified. >>
What is your definition of a "verifiable account"?
<< <i>Would you agree that a verifiable account would be more useful for research purposes? I do think it is very unfortunate for numismatics that it seems your account cannot be verified. >>
What is your definition of a "verifiable account"? >>
Something that does not meet the definition of hearsay would be a start.
I think some of the accounts posted are useful avenues of exploration, such as official testimony that all coins had been accounted for and destroyed when some existed in other branches of government to be subsequently destroyed; both presumably documented with official paperwork.
I do find it somewhat surprising that some people like to stress documented research in the National Archives and Mint records; however, will stand by stories that can only be attributed to unnamed persons.
<< <i>Would you agree that a verifiable account would be more useful for research purposes? I do think it is very unfortunate for numismatics that it seems your account cannot be verified. >>
What is your definition of a "verifiable account"? >>
I've always lived by the adage "Believe 50% of what you see and nothing of what you read or hear." EVERYTHING is embellished and interpreted by the individual providing the information and everyone else that has conveyed/will convey the information. There's always truth to every story, the question is "What percent of the story is the truth?"
<< <i>Strike 1,964 pieces. Then stamp them COPY. >>
In 2002 the Gallery Mint Museum contracted with the Full Step Nickel Club to strike 1,938 pieces of Ron Landis' interpretation of the original Felix Schlag design for the 1938 US nickel, featuring the 3/4 view of Monticello on the reverse (which, acc'd to Landis, was a bear to engrave.) These were counterstamped on Jefferson's shoulder with "FSNC 2002". In the end, Gallery Mint only struck several hundred since demand from the FSNC members and friends was not so significant. These are still available from the club in proof or matte finish and slabbed by SEGS in numbered holders.
I could be wrong but I believe that these sold out at the FSNC. I recall their presence at one of the Santa Clara Coin Shows where they were selling the last of these sets.
..
BTW, whatever happened to FSNC? Are they still around?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Comments
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Of course, you're not sure... and the buyers of this "coin" will believe you when they're told of the final "mintage", right?
LOL
<< <i>I can swear on a stack of Constitutions that I have witnessed with my own eyes a peace dollar, bearing a 1964 date, leave the minting room at the Denver mint. There are several living witnesses besides myself. It was not removed clandestinely, nor under the circumstances described by Mr. DeLorey involving purchase at the mint cashier. I have no reason to believe it was ever returned to the mint. >>
I for one believe there are a small number that did actually leave, since well look after all these years there are now 11 known examples of the 1933 $20, there are known and graded examples of the 1974 aluminium cent.
But swearing on a Constitution, swearing at all? Is swearing really necessary?
I look forward to receiving mine.
Forum AdministratorPSA & PSA/DNA ForumModerator@collectors.com | p 800.325.1121 | PSAcard.com
<< <i>
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Of course, you're not sure... and the buyers of this "coin" will believe you when they're told of the final "mintage", right?
LOL >>
Yes, they will. I methodically publish all my mintage figures, including varieties. And I hold to them.
My customers who have bought coins from me since about 2005 can attest to that.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Of course, you're not sure... and the buyers of this "coin" will believe you when they're told of the final "mintage", right?
LOL >>
Yes, they will. I methodically publish all my mintage figures, including varieties. And I hold to them.
My customers who have bought coins from me since about 2005 can attest to that. >>
I seem to recall I have one that has a mintage of in the 80s since the die bought the farm early on.
I am going to order one today. Damnable capitalist foolery me thinks, but I have to have one.
"...They would if you used a real $100 bill to create it, its not a counterfeit, it is a real, in your example, altered $100 bill. It has been monetized. If you took that same real $100 bill and wrote by hand on it 1927 with the date, it would be the same thing, just better art. Its an altered real $100 bill. Its the same as altering a penny, nickel, etc..."
He took a coin that WAS legally a dollar and altered the date on it - making it NO MORE OR NO LESS still a dollar.
Just ordered one.
Yeah....I ordered one too
...next, I want one of the 1910 VDB pennies..........and after that, I want an 1854 C gold dollar........and after that, I want a 1963 Kennedy Half dollar, and after that I want.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Promise us one thing...if this all goes horribly wrong, send us your number and the address of the correctional institution they put you in, so we can write you.
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
Dan, I say cap mintage at way less than that 2000, and would say to keep it closer to some of your other pieces. Are you imposing a timeframe for production at least? I'd rather my $115 go toward something that is along mintage-par with the other pieces I have of yours.
Now, if they were say $50, I'd say mint that 2000
<< <i>I wonder if we can talk PCGS into slabbing these so-called dollars?
Probably not but I will be ordering a Coin World slab for mine.
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I just placed an order for two. They look really neat. Being a small operation, I'm expecting a wait to get them. If ICG slabs them, any idea what they'll put on the slab label? It shouldn't say "restrike" since the original dies weren't used. >>
Last order I put in showed up in like 5 days IIRC.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just placed an order for two. They look really neat. Being a small operation, I'm expecting a wait to get them. If ICG slabs them, any idea what they'll put on the slab label? It shouldn't say "restrike" since the original dies weren't used. >>
Last order I put in showed up in like 5 days IIRC. >>
Due to this thread, I'm sure he's gotten several hundred orders in the last two days so I imagine he'll be quite busy for the next few weeks.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I just placed an order for two. They look really neat. Being a small operation, I'm expecting a wait to get them. If ICG slabs them, any idea what they'll put on the slab label? It shouldn't say "restrike" since the original dies weren't used. >>
Last order I put in showed up in like 5 days IIRC. >>
Due to this thread, I'm sure he's gotten several hundred orders in the last two days so I imagine he'll be quite busy for the next few weeks. >>
Doubt it. Probably had a initial batch minted already and 'DCarr slabbed' and ready to go. I'd seriously expect them to show up in under a week.
And with everyone beeching and moaning in here about it, you gotta wonder how many of the legal naysayers are ordering or not.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
All of the documentation I could find is in the lengthy chapter in “A Guide Book for Peace Dollars” (Whitman Publishing LLC 2009). I recommend reading that chapter before speculating or depending on unsubstantiated stories. Also, original affidavits exist.
<< <i>
<< <i>I can swear on a stack of Constitutions that I have witnessed with my own eyes a peace dollar, bearing a 1964 date, leave the minting room at the Denver mint. There are several living witnesses besides myself. It was not removed clandestinely, nor under the circumstances described by Mr. DeLorey involving purchase at the mint cashier. I have no reason to believe it was ever returned to the mint. >>
I for one believe there are a small number that did actually leave, since well look after all these years there are now 11 known examples of the 1933 $20, there are known and graded examples of the 1974 aluminium cent.
But swearing on a Constitution, swearing at all? Is swearing really necessary? >>
Hmmm. I'm thinking.
I'm thinking that if a US Mint employee did acquire one or two of these and when asked to return them stated that he "spent them in a bar" that one would have shown up by now.
Now I'm thinking that if a US Mint employee did acquire one or two of these and when asked to return them stated that he "spent them in a bar" when he really still had them squirreled away with the intent of "cashing in" (45 years ago) that one would have shown up by now.
Now I'm thinking that if several of these had been squirreled away in 1965 and it was really that important to get them back, that the Federal Government and the Secret Service had more than enough authority and resources to interview each Denver Mint Employee (remember, it was 1965 and intimidation was used back then) involved with the coins, that they would have. Maybe they did?
Now I'm thinking that if LBJ had been given one as a momento and the fact that he's passed away and his wife Lady Bird has passed away, that it's existance would certainly have been uncovered by now. Especially since possession of this "particular" coin has not been WIDELY publicized, such as the 1933 Saint, as being illegal to own. Remember, in 1913, 5 nickels were obtained under "fraudulent" circumstances yet these are traded publically for millions. Also remember that the 1913 Liberty Nickels made their appearance a scant 12 years later. These coins were without a doubt, fraudulently produced and taken (or stolen) from the US Mint and are in fact the property of the United States subject to confiscation yet they are publically traded.
Now I'm thinking that if 1 or 2 or maybe 10 eventually show up, certainly the quality would be less than that produced by the US Mint as depicted in Daniel's photo's. His coin shows almost a sandblasted finish. His coin also strays from the original design with regard to the rays on the reverse and the apparent misplaced mint mark.
Okay, okay, now I'm thinking that the Treasury Department News release of May 31, 1973 was issued around the same time that error coins were being produced by enterprising Mint employees and smuggled out in the oil pan of a fork lift yet those coins are publically sold and traded without legal challenge.
Now I'm thinking that the odds that some of these coins still exist today are very slight. Yes, it's possible that some are out there but surely more than heresay would have substantiated their existance by now.
Whatever, it doesn't really matter to me. Daniel's coins will simply be appended to the numismatic history of the 1964-D Peace Dollar just like the Fantasy Fugio's, the Henning Nickels, and the Kellog Slugs, regardless of how the story turns out or ends.
Edited to Add: Dang! The order's certainly started piling up!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Speaking for myself, it's a very cool item. I just ordered one as it takes me back to the days of yesteryear when all the rumors were flying concerning its existence. As for the price, well he is an ongoing business, and I'm sure that the price would be much less if DCarr was willing to work for 3 cents a day, a bowl of rice, and strike them in aluminum while working in some back alley hovel illuminated by candlelight. There will always be folks who will whine over the price of any issue that exceeds 4% over melt whether it comes out of a government mint or private entity.
I look forward to receiving mine. >>
you have a webcam for my workplace, dont you
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>What kind of packaging comes with this coin? Special holder or just a flip? >>
Flip with a paper insert. Easy to pack/ship.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I agree that this probably should not have been produced without the word copy (or some other designation) to clearly identify that this is an altered coin.
On the other hand, I ordered one.
Joe.
<< <i>This settled the ethical dilemma for me:
"...They would if you used a real $100 bill to create it, its not a counterfeit, it is a real, in your example, altered $100 bill. It has been monetized. If you took that same real $100 bill and wrote by hand on it 1927 with the date, it would be the same thing, just better art. Its an altered real $100 bill. Its the same as altering a penny, nickel, etc..."
He took a coin that WAS legally a dollar and altered the date on it - making it NO MORE OR NO LESS still a dollar.
Just ordered one.
But take a new $1, bleach it, and print a $1 silver cert over it. Or, print it crooked such that it is an "error" dollar.
That's a fake silver cert, or a fake error. Counterfeit?
I've ordered one. I'm hoping these are different enough from a real 1964D to not be a counterfeit.
have you vetted this with the Mint or Secrest Service?
I found a Santa Claus Dollar???
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -Carl Sagan
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
1933 comes to mind.
ya never know.
So the website buyer sells his coin (with disclosure) to a third party, who sells the coin any which way he pleases. So much for disclosure.
Oh, yeah (Laura Alert™)- there is only one "m" in "criminal".
<< <i>I'm uneasy about these not having "COPY" stamped on them. >>
If you ask him, I'm sure he can add "COPY" for you if you wish to buy one.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Strike 1,964 pieces.
Then stamp them COPY.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Strike 1,964 pieces.
Then stamp them COPY.
TD >>
I doubt that 1,964 would sell if they were stamped "COPY". I expect most people are buying them for the imminent controversy they are sure to receive from the Secret Service and potentially, the national media. They SCREAM potential flip!
<< <i>They SCREAM potential flip! >>
~ Or ~
Full Body Cavity Search!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Strike 1,964 pieces.
Then stamp them COPY.
TD >>
I doubt that 1,964 would sell if they were stamped "COPY". I expect most people are buying them for the imminent controversy they are sure to receive from the Secret Service and potentially, the national media. They SCREAM potential flip! >>
I doubt the national media would care unless Glenn Beck started selling them on Fox News.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>As for the mintage, the final total is yet to be determined. It will definitely be less than 2,000. Perhaps a lot less. Not sure yet. >>
Strike 1,964 pieces.
Then stamp them COPY.
TD >>
I doubt that 1,964 would sell if they were stamped "COPY". I expect most people are buying them for the imminent controversy they are sure to receive from the Secret Service and potentially, the national media. They SCREAM potential flip! >>
I doubt the national media would care unless Glenn Beck started selling them on Fox News. >>
I think that's a "Fair & Balanced" assessment!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>As already mentioned, please ship quickly and destroy your records......quickly
Me too and now I wonder if our host would be willing to put it in a Genuine holder labeled as a D. Carr fantasy dollar. >>
That would be cool, a PCGS slabbed 1964-D restrike. I would send it in. >>
I'd prefer a PCGS holder, if not...since ANACS grades just about anything
From what I understand, ANACS will certify and slab Daniel's Amero coins (which BTW, are being counterfeited due to popularity.
I sure would like to see a D. Carr coin in one of those slabs...
<< <i>Can you release the name of the former Denver Mint employee? Has he made or is he able to make this statement on the record? This would be good information to add to our understanding of these coins if it was verifiable or at least attributable to a real person. >>
Excuse me? Though he signed our guest book, I did not make a note of his name. I was not then and am not now in the habit of divulging our (ANA) visitors' personal information.
This was approximately 1980. The gentleman was elderly and retired from the Mint at the time. I doubt he is still alive.
TD
P.S.: He was a real person, even if you wish to pretend that he was not.
<< <i>
<< <i>Can you release the name of the former Denver Mint employee? Has he made or is he able to make this statement on the record? This would be good information to add to our understanding of these coins if it was verifiable or at least attributable to a real person. >>
Excuse me? Though he signed our guest book, I did not make a note of his name. I was not then and am not now in the habit of divulging our (ANA) visitors' personal information.
This was approximately 1980. The gentleman was elderly and retired from the Mint at the time. I doubt he is still alive.
TD
P.S.: He was a real person, even if you wish to pretend that he was not. >>
I am not debating whether he was a real person or not and I am not asking you to divulge his information without his consent. However, I am wondering if your story can be verified, Would you agree that a verifiable account would be more useful for research purposes? I do think it is very unfortunate for numismatics that it seems your account cannot be verified.
<< <i>Strike 1,964 pieces.
Then stamp them COPY. >>
In 2002 the Gallery Mint Museum contracted with the Full Step Nickel Club to strike 1,938 pieces of Ron Landis' interpretation of the original Felix Schlag design for the 1938 US nickel, featuring the 3/4 view of Monticello on the reverse (which, acc'd to Landis, was a bear to engrave.) These were counterstamped on Jefferson's shoulder with "FSNC 2002". In the end, Gallery Mint only struck several hundred since demand from the FSNC members and friends was not so significant. These are still available from the club in proof or matte finish and slabbed by SEGS in numbered holders.
Gallery Mint Museum Schlag pattern interpretation
<< <i>Would you agree that a verifiable account would be more useful for research purposes? I do think it is very unfortunate for numismatics that it seems your account cannot be verified. >>
What is your definition of a "verifiable account"?
<< <i>
<< <i>Would you agree that a verifiable account would be more useful for research purposes? I do think it is very unfortunate for numismatics that it seems your account cannot be verified. >>
What is your definition of a "verifiable account"? >>
Something that does not meet the definition of hearsay would be a start.
I think some of the accounts posted are useful avenues of exploration, such as official testimony that all coins had been accounted for and destroyed when some existed in other branches of government to be subsequently destroyed; both presumably documented with official paperwork.
I do find it somewhat surprising that some people like to stress documented research in the National Archives and Mint records; however, will stand by stories that can only be attributed to unnamed persons.
<< <i>
<< <i>Would you agree that a verifiable account would be more useful for research purposes? I do think it is very unfortunate for numismatics that it seems your account cannot be verified. >>
What is your definition of a "verifiable account"? >>
I've always lived by the adage "Believe 50% of what you see and nothing of what you read or hear." EVERYTHING is embellished and interpreted by the individual providing the information and everyone else that has conveyed/will convey the information. There's always truth to every story, the question is "What percent of the story is the truth?"
<< <i>
<< <i>Strike 1,964 pieces.
Then stamp them COPY. >>
In 2002 the Gallery Mint Museum contracted with the Full Step Nickel Club to strike 1,938 pieces of Ron Landis' interpretation of the original Felix Schlag design for the 1938 US nickel, featuring the 3/4 view of Monticello on the reverse (which, acc'd to Landis, was a bear to engrave.) These were counterstamped on Jefferson's shoulder with "FSNC 2002". In the end, Gallery Mint only struck several hundred since demand from the FSNC members and friends was not so significant. These are still available from the club in proof or matte finish and slabbed by SEGS in numbered holders.
Gallery Mint Museum Schlag pattern interpretation >>
I could be wrong but I believe that these sold out at the FSNC. I recall their presence at one of the Santa Clara Coin Shows where they were selling the last of these sets.
BTW, whatever happened to FSNC? Are they still around?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>But then again, the fact that none have been confirmed to currently exist is not evidence that none do. Wouldn't you agree?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -Carl Sagan >>
Look where it got him. Is that why as a devout atheist he had a priest give him last rights?
<< <i>These will be bringing $1000 on eBay next year >>
Don't make me go and order another one.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution