I so wish SGC would redesign their flip to something a little bit better then any of the ones they have had over the years. The one they use now is so ugly and lacks any kind of pizazz. It looks someone grading cards out of their mom's basement.
@craig44 said:
while Franks market as a whole is not as high as Griffey, Bonds etc. I will say that his NNOF has to be a top 10 card from the 90's, no?
Maybe but that is merely a bi-product it being an "error" outlier. Nothing to do with Griffey being more popular than Thomas.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972) Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
@craig44 said:
while Franks market as a whole is not as high as Griffey, Bonds etc. I will say that his NNOF has to be a top 10 card from the 90's, no?
Maybe but that is merely a bi-product it being an "error" outlier. Nothing to do with Griffey being more popular than Thomas.
this is true. certainly an outlier. can you imagine if there were a comparable error on the 89 upper deck griffey! would probably be a half million dollar card
I think if Thomas hadn’t been injured in 2005 when the White Sox won he would be much more talked about. It is kind of strange to have your most iconic player of play 35 games in the season you won it all and not be available for the postseason. Then he wasn’t even kept on the team.
@brad31 said:
I think if Thomas hadn’t been injured in 2005 when the White Sox won he would be much more talked about. It is kind of strange to have your most iconic player of play 35 games in the season you won it all and not be available for the postseason. Then he wasn’t even kept on the team.
i believe he broke his foot that season. that is why he missed almost the whole season and was left off the postseason roster. he got a ring, but it was a hollow one
prior to 1983 opc wax is already nearly impossible to find even 1983 - 1985 are decently rare.
Why then on eBay, most 70's graded wax packs are OPC, and rediculously over priced, at that.
maybe the price is hefty because they are harder to come by? thus when picking one up to resale you have to pay dearly to get them.
According to the PSA baseball wax pack price registry, Topps is way higher in value even if OPC has far rewer of pop. Anyway, I think O-pee- chee's day to shine is still in the future.
I agree that opc's day is still in the future, but certain marque cards are getting some good results right now. it is not only about scarcity or low pops. the demand for opc is much lower than base topps for most cards
Why then on eBay, most 70's graded wax packs are OPC, and rediculously over priced, at that.
I think some of the cause of a relatively larger number of '70's OPC packs being graded is because the Topps ones could and still can be ripped with significantly higher chance of pulling grading-worthy cards from them. And, there are more cards in a Topps pack than inside an OPC pack. The sugar content of the OPC gum was tons higher than that of the gum in the Topps packs. That, plus coupled with the fact that the stack of cards inside the OPC packs is short, has yielded the most likely results being that most if not all the cards inside vintage OPC packs have been destroyed by decomposition of the gum. So, they aren't worth the risk of opening. Conversely, the Topps ones do have at least some potential of the rip gamble paying off, so there are people willing to take that chance. No one in the know would risk opening an old OPC pack.
Why then on eBay, most 70's graded wax packs are OPC, and rediculously over priced, at that.
I think some of the cause of a relatively larger number of '70's OPC packs being graded is because the Topps ones could and still can be ripped with significantly higher chance of pulling grading-worthy cards from them. And, there are more cards in a Topps pack than inside an OPC pack. The sugar content of the OPC gum was tons higher than that of the gum in the Topps packs. That, plus coupled with the fact that the stack of cards inside the OPC packs is short, has yielded the most likely results being that most if not all the cards inside vintage OPC packs have been destroyed by decomposition of the gum. So, they aren't worth the risk of opening. Conversely, the Topps ones do have at least some potential of the rip gamble paying off, so there are people willing to take that chance. No one in the know would risk opening an old OPC pack.
And with that comes increased interest in finding singles which made it out of the pack before they could become badly stained, hence the meteoric rises in values for the finest available examples. This is why I love hunting these cards, because they are so darn tough to find without flaws.
The "overvalued" packs are simply a collectible of rarity as long as they stay in the holder.
as a point of comparison, tonight a psa 9 topps brett rookie sold at auction on ebay for $10,900.00 this just a few days after a PSA 9 OPC brett went for $12k.
it is surprising to me that the topps and opc brett rookies are so close in price.
I also commend your research @smallstocks. as a point of discussion, I wonder if part of the disparity between topps and opc pop numbers is the overall production quality of OPC. could it be that so many OPC cards came significantly off center or otherwise of such poor quality that they are just not "grade worthy" out of the pack?
while the pop report can definitely give us some solid clues as to production numbers, i dont think it is the final answer. I have a hard time believing that Topps would even bother producing cards at less than 5% of topps numbers. would it be financially feasible?
@craig44 said:
I also commend your research @smallstocks. as a point of discussion, I wonder if part of the disparity between topps and opc pop numbers is the overall production quality of OPC. could it be that so many OPC cards came significantly off center or otherwise of such poor quality that they are just not "grade worthy" out of the pack?
while the pop report can definitely give us some solid clues as to production numbers, i dont think it is the final answer. I have a hard time believing that Topps would even bother producing cards at less than 5% of topps numbers. would it be financially feasible?
The quality issue could certainly be a part of it. I would also volunteer that perhaps Canadians over the years may have been less likely to send cards to PSA than Americans would. For example, I do see a fair number of cards graded by KSA.
@80sOPC said:
Love 1990 OPC, the Thomas is my hobby obsession:
Boy have Frank Thomas cards lost their luster. Maybe not this one, but a bunch of other ones. For some reason his collecting audience has fizzled out some.
Maybe it’s low T?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@80sOPC said:
Love 1990 OPC, the Thomas is my hobby obsession:
Boy have Frank Thomas cards lost their luster. Maybe not this one, but a bunch of other ones. For some reason his collecting audience has fizzled out some.
prior to 1983 opc wax is already nearly impossible to find even 1983 - 1985 are decently rare.
Why then on eBay, most 70's graded wax packs are OPC, and rediculously over priced, at that.
maybe the price is hefty because they are harder to come by? thus when picking one up to resale you have to pay dearly to get them.
According to the PSA baseball wax pack price registry, Topps is way higher in value even if OPC has far rewer of pop. Anyway, I think O-pee- chee's day to shine is still in the future.
If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that...
That said, the tougher OPC wax packs have risen in value over time. They won't rival Topps in value for the most part but it's not like 1973-1976 OPC packs are cheap anymore.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Sold for $9,532.80 at Memory Lane. No 8s. Was hoping I could get for $5K but not even close. 71 OPC High Numbers are tough. Still need Clemente, Brock and Frank Robinson.
@olb31 said:
very weak 7. i wouldn't sweat it. left to right centering looks like a 6 and top to bottom looks like a 5 or 6.
Very old cert. Would probably be a 5 or 6 today.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Regarding the Clemente, it is an old cert but a new flip. I thought that if PSA deemed the card to be overgraded during the re-holdering process that they would downgrade and reimburse the SMR value for the difference in grades. I guess that is not true anymore?
Adam collecting O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball cards also collecting US & Canadian junk silver
@waxman said:
Regarding the Clemente, it is an old cert but a new flip. I thought that if PSA deemed the card to be overgraded during the re-holdering process that they would downgrade and reimburse the SMR value for the difference in grades. I guess that is not true anymore?
I'm wondering how many old-cert PSA 10's would NOT be a PSA 10 with current standards. For some cards there is a huge price difference between a 9 and 10. Would PSA actually downgrade from a 10 to a 9 and reimburse the difference?
@waxman said:
Regarding the Clemente, it is an old cert but a new flip. I thought that if PSA deemed the card to be overgraded during the re-holdering process that they would downgrade and reimburse the SMR value for the difference in grades. I guess that is not true anymore?
I'm wondering how many old-cert PSA 10's would NOT be a PSA 10 with current standards. For some cards there is a huge price difference between a 9 and 10. Would PSA actually downgrade from a 10 to a 9 and reimburse the difference?
Fewer than new 10s today. They grade around 2 million cards a month and human error is a ratio.
@waxman said:
Regarding the Clemente, it is an old cert but a new flip. I thought that if PSA deemed the card to be overgraded during the re-holdering process that they would downgrade and reimburse the SMR value for the difference in grades. I guess that is not true anymore?
Only in cases where holder has been tampered with or the card is egregiously overgraded. Reholder is not the same as review.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@waxman said:
Regarding the Clemente, it is an old cert but a new flip. I thought that if PSA deemed the card to be overgraded during the re-holdering process that they would downgrade and reimburse the SMR value for the difference in grades. I guess that is not true anymore?
Only in cases where holder has been tampered with or the card is egregiously overgraded. Reholder is not the same as review.
Thanks Tim for clarifying. Now I know.
Adam collecting O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball cards also collecting US & Canadian junk silver
Comments
while Franks market as a whole is not as high as Griffey, Bonds etc. I will say that his NNOF has to be a top 10 card from the 90's, no?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I so wish SGC would redesign their flip to something a little bit better then any of the ones they have had over the years. The one they use now is so ugly and lacks any kind of pizazz. It looks someone grading cards out of their mom's basement.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
1986 OPC Roger Clemens Psa 10
just sold for $930.
Pop 13.
Maybe but that is merely a bi-product it being an "error" outlier. Nothing to do with Griffey being more popular than Thomas.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
this is true. certainly an outlier. can you imagine if there were a comparable error on the 89 upper deck griffey! would probably be a half million dollar card
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think if Thomas hadn’t been injured in 2005 when the White Sox won he would be much more talked about. It is kind of strange to have your most iconic player of play 35 games in the season you won it all and not be available for the postseason. Then he wasn’t even kept on the team.
i believe he broke his foot that season. that is why he missed almost the whole season and was left off the postseason roster. he got a ring, but it was a hollow one
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Why then on eBay, most 70's graded wax packs are OPC, and rediculously over priced, at that.
maybe the price is hefty because they are harder to come by? thus when picking one up to resale you have to pay dearly to get them.
i saw 2 opc unopened boxes for sale 1978 and 1979. i saw a bunch of topps. 1972 and up. not a ton but several of each year.
According to the PSA baseball wax pack price registry, Topps is way higher in value even if OPC has far rewer of pop. Anyway, I think O-pee- chee's day to shine is still in the future.
I agree that opc's day is still in the future, but certain marque cards are getting some good results right now. it is not only about scarcity or low pops. the demand for opc is much lower than base topps for most cards
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think some of the cause of a relatively larger number of '70's OPC packs being graded is because the Topps ones could and still can be ripped with significantly higher chance of pulling grading-worthy cards from them. And, there are more cards in a Topps pack than inside an OPC pack. The sugar content of the OPC gum was tons higher than that of the gum in the Topps packs. That, plus coupled with the fact that the stack of cards inside the OPC packs is short, has yielded the most likely results being that most if not all the cards inside vintage OPC packs have been destroyed by decomposition of the gum. So, they aren't worth the risk of opening. Conversely, the Topps ones do have at least some potential of the rip gamble paying off, so there are people willing to take that chance. No one in the know would risk opening an old OPC pack.
And with that comes increased interest in finding singles which made it out of the pack before they could become badly stained, hence the meteoric rises in values for the finest available examples. This is why I love hunting these cards, because they are so darn tough to find without flaws.
The "overvalued" packs are simply a collectible of rarity as long as they stay in the holder.
wasnt it a 72 OPC wax box that someone online opened and just about every single card was ruined due to the gum residue? a few years ago i think.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yes, that's correct. 1972 was the worst year for gum.
I did this research a few months ago . . .
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
as a point of comparison, tonight a psa 9 topps brett rookie sold at auction on ebay for $10,900.00 this just a few days after a PSA 9 OPC brett went for $12k.
it is surprising to me that the topps and opc brett rookies are so close in price.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
1975 OPC brett psa 8 $3,700
1975 OPC Ryan psa 8 $2,400
Sold on ebay last night.
i dont know much about the ryan, price-wise, but the brett sale looks big. looks like Topps psa 8 brett rookies sell for around $1000-$1300 or so.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I have purchased 3 1975 opc nolan ryan cards in the last 4 years
psa 6 oct 2023 $175
psa 7 feb 2023 $210
psa 8 feb 2022 $535
@smallstocks Great work. I have always seen info stating that OPC printed 5-10% of Topps. Looks like it might be more along the lines of 1-5%.
collecting O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball cards
also collecting US & Canadian junk silver
I also commend your research @smallstocks. as a point of discussion, I wonder if part of the disparity between topps and opc pop numbers is the overall production quality of OPC. could it be that so many OPC cards came significantly off center or otherwise of such poor quality that they are just not "grade worthy" out of the pack?
while the pop report can definitely give us some solid clues as to production numbers, i dont think it is the final answer. I have a hard time believing that Topps would even bother producing cards at less than 5% of topps numbers. would it be financially feasible?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The quality issue could certainly be a part of it. I would also volunteer that perhaps Canadians over the years may have been less likely to send cards to PSA than Americans would. For example, I do see a fair number of cards graded by KSA.
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
I've heard good things on KSA, quicker and cheaper, obviously. Don't know about the tariffs though.
KSA slabs are pretty classy looking and seem to be a higher quality than PSA.
Maybe it’s low T?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
nice..
If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that...
That said, the tougher OPC wax packs have risen in value over time. They won't rival Topps in value for the most part but it's not like 1973-1976 OPC packs are cheap anymore.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Sold for $9,532.80 at Memory Lane. No 8s. Was hoping I could get for $5K but not even close. 71 OPC High Numbers are tough. Still need Clemente, Brock and Frank Robinson.
very weak 7. i wouldn't sweat it. left to right centering looks like a 6 and top to bottom looks like a 5 or 6.
Very old cert. Would probably be a 5 or 6 today.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Regarding the Clemente, it is an old cert but a new flip. I thought that if PSA deemed the card to be overgraded during the re-holdering process that they would downgrade and reimburse the SMR value for the difference in grades. I guess that is not true anymore?
collecting O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball cards
also collecting US & Canadian junk silver
i believe that when you have them reholder that is all they do. I, however, am not 100% on that.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm wondering how many old-cert PSA 10's would NOT be a PSA 10 with current standards. For some cards there is a huge price difference between a 9 and 10. Would PSA actually downgrade from a 10 to a 9 and reimburse the difference?
Fewer than new 10s today. They grade around 2 million cards a month and human error is a ratio.
Only in cases where holder has been tampered with or the card is egregiously overgraded. Reholder is not the same as review.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Thanks Tim for clarifying. Now I know.
collecting O-Pee-Chee (OPC) baseball cards
also collecting US & Canadian junk silver
Who determines egregious?