Topps VS OPC baseball observations...
olb31
Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
Highest priced PSA card:
1992 Ramirez OPC
1991 Chipper OPC
1990 Walker OPC
1990 Sosa OPC
1989 Johnson OPC
1987 Bonds OPC
1987 Canseco OPC
1987 Clark OPC
1985 Puckett OPC
1985 Gooden OPC
1984 Mattingly OPC
1983 Gwynn OPC
1983 Sanberg OPC
1981 Baines OPC
1981 Gibson OPC
1981 Raines OPC
1979 Ozzie Topps
1978 Murray Topps
1977 Fidrych Topps
1975 Yount Topps
1975 Brett Topps
1975 Carter Topps
1975 Rice Topps
1974 Winfield OPC
1973 Schmidt Topps
1972 Fisk OPC
1971 Blyleven OPC
1970 Munson OPC
1968 Ryan OPC
Keep in mind that the OPC Populations are 5 - 10 % that of Topps. For example Mattingly Topps PSA 10 864, OPC 49. Bonds is worse than that, etc. Fidrych Topps PSA 9 109, OPC 31. The Topps sales for 3.5 times more, It doesn't look like a close call pop wise with any of the cards, but some Topps especialy starting with 1979 and back seem to be more favorable to topps. But when you get to Ryan it's a huge difference between the OPC and Topps. The OPC can be up to 1.5 times more Pricey.
Hockey is just the opposite. OPC sales for more 95% of the time. But the 1987 - 1990 hockey seems to have more OPC available than topps. But availability doesn't seem to matter.
Just thought I would provide some analysis. If find it interesting, yet puzzling.
Comments
What's puzzling? The OPC cards have finally become worth more after decades of being the red-headed stepchild.
Arthur
Have you seen Bonds Prices? Gwynn Prices? Sandberg Prices? The Bonds OPC card may be the 2nd best baseball card of all the 80's. Henderson and then Bonds, maybe? Third best from 1980 until Trout?
I believe 1989 was the only year that OPC hockey production volume exceeded that of Topps hockey.
For your list above, on the 1981's, did you notice if it is only Gray Back that is higher than Topps, or are the White Backs also higher?
Yeah, I read your post wrong. What about it is puzzling though?
Arthur
Do you have any information about production runs? You’re only talking about pop reports which technically means that for all we know, there could be the same amount of Topps and OPC produced by each year, it’s just about as 1/3rd as popular to grade. Of course no one thinks that production levels are equal but does anyone have any actually info?
I don't have any facts. A number of collectors and some on this board, seem to think 10% of the Topps run is estimated. But, I know it's difficult to find the unopended boxes in large quantities like the unopened topps cases that existed about 5 -7 years ago from the mid 80's.
Up until 2014 - 2015, one could still purchase 1984 Topps cases and the years that followed. I have not seen a large number of 1983 cases, but I did see a few 1979 - 1982 before 2014. As for OPC you will see a couple of boxes here and there, but rarely have I seen 10 or more boxes of OPC at a time for the years 1985 and back.
The other issue with OPC is the way they cut the cards. Very hard to find even closely centered cards that would qualify for a PSA 9. 1987 OPC is decently plentiful compared to their prior years, but it's very difficult to find centered issues of Bonds, Clark and Canseco, etc.
have a huge stash of opc knowing these days were coming.
it's funny to hear all the guys talk about modern "base" cards and how folks are idiots for buying them. however, these same folks steady preferred the vintage regular topps rc knowing full well that opc & tiffany versions are in much scarcer supply than their basic topps rookie counterparts.
"hi pot, my name is the kettle" 😉
Yeah, I read your post wrong. What about it is puzzling though?
Arthur
The puzzling part is why some OPC like Bonds is off the charts special and high priced, yet, the Fidrych card is 1/3 the price yet just as scarce. Murray the same way, not quite the price difference but still a difference. I'm an accountant and consistency is a virtue in my field. So to have the Bonds or johnson card sale for 20 times or more in OPC and have the 70's cards sale for less, just blows consistency away.
I believe 1989 was the only year that OPC hockey production volume exceeded that of Topps hockey.
For your list above, on the 1981's, did you notice if it is only Gray Back that is higher than Topps, or are the White Backs also higher?
In response to the post above. I guess I am going by the grading more than anything on the Hockey. Many more OPC cards graded than topps, even on the main stars and rookies. I would assume if you have a nice 1988 Gretzky, no matter what version, you would grade it. So I viewed all the sets in the 80's and OPC has been graded double starting in 1987. Only 3,200 Topps Hockey cards have ever been graded. WoW. Have to think they are tougher to find.
As for the Gray VS White vs Topps. For example, the Raines card would sale for the most in opc gray, then opc white and then topps.
I support this thread:
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it has always been surprising to me that 70's opc are not higher priced than topps. especially in high grade. the brett for example has a much lower pop in 9 and 10 in opc. i personally think the colors pop much more with opc as well.
i have enjoyed opc for decades. glad I picked up most keys years ago.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yes, I think it's common knowledge that the Gray Backs should outsell any of their counterparts. I was asking if you had looked up whether the White Backs were also selling for higher than Topps (while of course selling for lower than the Gray versions). I realize I could look this up myself too, but earlier thought maybe you already had done it.
On the Gray vs. White variety subject, does anyone know what the relative production volume is of Gray back vs. White/Cream back for 1973-74 OPC hockey? I used to know but can't remember anymore whether it has nearly as much disparity as there is with 1981 OPC baseball or not.
Great to see OPC's getting some attention these days. Very under-valued in my opinion for way too long. The fact that high-grade 70's OPC is much harder to find than the Topps issue in high-grade should be reason enough that the values for OPC have been increasing recently. So glad I picked up some of these Bench cards when I did. Thought I would share of few favorites of. mine.
POP Report:
1971 Bench
OPC: 21 PSA 8's
Topps: 168 PSA 8's
1972 Bench
OPC: 11 PSA 9's
Topps: 115 PSA 9's
1973 Bench
OPC: 11 PSA 9's
Topps: 255 PSA 9's
Love that 72 Bench
I don't understand this table at all. Can you please explain what yo are trying to represent?
I have a ton of 1980 OPC baseball PSA 9's and a few 10's.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
I picked up most of the OPC cards for my Killebrew set long ago and couldn't believe that they were often less expensive than their Topps counter parts, even in the same grade!
The same can be said for (both Topps and OPC) League Leader cards, nobody wanted them either.
Glad I was OCD about getting them when I did!
With all due reespect to Mark Fidyrich, who was a great pitcher and a great ambassador for the sport, you just can't compare his market to Barry Bond's market. But there's another reason.
The kids that grew up in the 1980s grew up with an array of baseball card production companies that had an array of releases within each one every year. There were a LOT of baseball cards produced in the 1980s (even in the early-'80s) and they came in numerous forms and delivery devices. Many of those collectors continued right on into the the 1990s where there was just an explosion of companies.
My point is, kids that grew up collecting baseball cards in the 1960s and 1970s collected Topps and that's pretty much it. Anything else that tried to sneak in was viewed as second-rate. Topps, ride or die. But the kids growing up in the 1980s (and then into the early-'90s) were accustomed to having multiple companies produce lots of different card sets every year. There was no brand loyalty for that generation.
So today, those people go back and just say "Oh damn, O-Pee-Chee cards are extremely short-printed compared to just about everything else that decade!" because OPC is just one of the many brands that were around. While people that were Topps-or-snots in the 1970s just have a harder time getting over that mental hurdle. Post traumatic brand disorder is real.
Arthur
With all due reespect to Mark Fidyrich, who was a great pitcher and a great ambassador for the sport, you just can't compare his market to Barry Bond's market.
Arthur
Ok let's change it to Nolan Ryan, PSA 9 of both have sold recently for about the same price $650 for OPC and $600 for Topps. OPC pop in PSA 9 is 18, there are no 10's. In topps, PSA 9 pop 274, psa 10 pop 13. Huge POP differences here, but the same price, no way. This will change very soon. IMO.
I don't understand this table at all. Can you please explain what yo are trying to represent?
To answer this question. It shows which variety of a particular player that sales for more, OPC vs Topps. From 1981 - 1992 it's mainly are always the OPC. The 70's it changes to topps. But for the 1968 ryan it's opc big.
In all grades? Why those players? Some, but not nearly all, are HoF rookies, so I get that, but don't understand the others.
so we got two opc threads going on, huh?
is that your opc ryan rookie?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
on another note, I am shocked the 75 opc brett in psa 9 is not significantly higher than the topps. check out the pop reports.
over 10,000 topps graded with 306 9s
only 227 total opc graded with 23 9s
I would imagine opc will overtake topps soon
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Specifically on the Brett it is impossible to find that card in OPC with a centered back. I would argue the back centering of the 9s make it not really a 9. The only 9s with a reasonably centered back are fairly off-center on the front and barely within the 9 parameters for front centering.
I think this keeps the price down on this card.
IS the % of OPC Higher or lower of cards sent in , compared to Topps. On the Brett , Topps 9s are about 3 nines per 100 graded. OPC is close to 11 per 100. Therefore if you have an un-opened box of OPC you would have a better chance of pulling a 9 Brett than Topps> Does this apply to most all 75s and all years?
Good point. One other factor to consider is that OPC cards may be that much worse out of the pack compared to Topps and OPC submitters are more selective about what to sub.
Disclaimer - I have no experience whatsoever ripping 70s OPC.
John
Supply is low and quality is lower. Most OPC's are so missed cut they aren't worth sending in. So only the most centered ones are sent in. For Topps, centering is an issue, but there are more supply, alot more.
Rough cut. Love them. Main reason I bought this last Summer
That is exactly what an OPC card should look like, great example and I look for the same thing
To me, that rough cut is one of the most appealing aesthetic factors possible in collecting cards. I just love it.
I will say this as a child of the 1980's...I remember at the time that we all thought of OPC as the mediocre, miscut stepchild of Topps. Topps was the "legit" card, and Donruss and Fleer were sometimes desirable. But among my friends OPC were just a weird novelty. I remember buying a pack or 2 of 1986 OPC and opening them out of curiosity. Got a Clemens which I thought was neat, but really didn't care too much about OPC.
kevin
Here are my 67 and 66 OPC Mantles
The upper left mantle should be a 5, maybe 5.5. Nice.
I have tried over the years to put together a run of OPC key rookies. I have most, still need the 65 Morgan and 70 Munson.
I think my favorite years are 71 and 75. the backs of the 71s are so nice compared to topps and I just love the colors of the 75s
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
thinking back, there are so many rookies i wish OPC had included over the years.
can you imagine:
65 carlton
67 seaver/carew
68 bench
69 reggie
78 molitor
80 Henderson
83 boggs
85 clemens
those would be some great cards
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
82 shooty babbitt?
i have a decent munson that i was getting ready to send in before the prices went up. It's just about perfectly centered. I'm hoping for a 6.5 or 7.
Supply is low and demand is low. No price appreciation or momentum. Traditional collectors don’t care about variation issues unless you are a player collector.
1989 Randy Johnson OPC just sold for about $3,200 two or three nights ago. About the same as the 1989 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr. Looks like some people like them better than you thought.
One example. You haven’t convinced me. Player collectors will pay, I said that. No one is paying those prices for commons or non HOF’s. Zero to barely any crossover collectors for commons or set collectors, purely HOF and player collectors. It’s sad because the more awareness and price increases, the more cards will come out of storage for sale.
set collecting is basically over. no one will be sending in 1983 donruss commons for $20 a piece to complete a set. whatever is out there is about it. ive been collecting a set for nearly 10 years rarely do any 10's come up and barely any tough 9's. pop report is virtually unchanged the last 4 years, for 1970's set.
I think the trend has already started for the most rare "variant" of a card. Like Tiffany, Glossy and in some cases O-Pee-Chee. Will OPC become the next hot thing, time will tell. I know of at least a handful of collectors that are seeking well-centered, nice cut examples at current market prices...
Something to think about with the Pre 1980 OPC Baseball PSA Populations being so low in PSA 9 (or higher) would not take all that much increased demand for them to become at least hot-ish.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
1981 opc gibson sold for $2100
Those are some jaw dropping Bench cards. NICE!
The Dude
A few 1978 OPC PSA 10's for sale and asking price is over 1K each. Not my cards. Good luck to the sellers, even though I don't think they will get 10% of their asking price.
I actually think OPC was printed at 1% of the print run of Topps. Can't be 10%. You almost never see OPC vintage. The quality of OPC is sometimes terrible too. I like the vintage stars.
I think OPC's from '72 on up have more saturated/deeper color, sharper picture focus and thicker card stock when compared to the Topps counterparts Even with the rough edge cuts and rare production numbers, I never understood why they are not more popular with collectors. They are attractive cards and I really like them.
The OPC's from '71 and back are not as attractive as the Topps versions to me, often with poorer focus and some what "bleached" coloration.
Perfectly written. Although I like the backs of 1971's.