I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
@Steven59 said:
Looks like deep N - yellow arrow points to (what looks like) "gunk" in the crotch ( )
It still looks like the webbing is there to me. Better, clearer photos are needed
I keep wobbling on this one but lean towards deep N. Agree that a razor sharp reverse pic will settle it.
I know, one of the photos look like maybe it’s deep, but most don’t. When I look at photos of the deep ones they rarely are mistaken for shallow. Depending on lighting some shallows can look similar to a deep, but they are still obviously not. Better photos are definitely needed.
@mr1931S said:
I can pretty much answer any questions you might have about 1909-S Lincoln cents or it's variation, the 1909-S Lincoln cent with V.D.B., so If you came here to learn about 1909-S or 1909-S V.D.B. ask your question here.
You proved to the forum that you can't tell a real S VDB from a counterfeit one even after everyone on the forum explains it to you for 3 months.
Have you bought yourself an SVDB yet? You were telling everyone on the forum about them but said you didn't own one, as I recall.
@burfle23 said:
Is this possibly the whispering VDB? Large seller has it listed on the Bay:
I don't know. You're the expert, why don't you tell us?
I don't recall stating that here like you did ...
You stated:
" I can pretty much answer any questions you might have about 1909-S Lincoln cents or it's variation, the 1909-S Lincoln cent with V.D.B., so If you came here to learn about 1909-S or 1909-S V.D.B. ask your question here. No such thing as a dumb question in my way of thinking. ".
Are you acknowledging me as the 1909-S and 1909-S V.D.B. expert around here now? If so, please stop as being recognized as such I am not worthy of. Now, Harsche, there's your real expert. The only discrepency, if you will, in Harsche's 5th and 6th editions of Detecting Counterfeit and Altered Coins is that Harsche never saw what we now know as 1909-S V.D.B. from PCGS obverse die #1. Obviously, no expert can identify and list what they don't see. It so happens that a 1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent from PCGS obverse die #1 is scarcer than an example from any of the other three obverse dies used for SVDB. The difference between the dies is in the position of the 's' mintmark.
I seldom agree with anything I see you spout here; please get a life outside of here...
Thanks for posting the beautiful image, showing both sides, of my first SVDB, the SVDB that ultimately was determined by PCGS to be a counterfeit.
Any here who are interested in WHY this piece was eventually determined to be a counterfeit by the TPG that graded and authenticated it, ask your questions. This is the place for those questions,so fire away.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Sometimes saying nothing is the best route to take.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@burfle23 said:
Is this possibly the whispering VDB? Large seller has it listed on the Bay:
I don't know. You're the expert, why don't you tell us?
I don't recall stating that here like you did ...
You stated:
" I can pretty much answer any questions you might have about 1909-S Lincoln cents or it's variation, the 1909-S Lincoln cent with V.D.B., so If you came here to learn about 1909-S or 1909-S V.D.B. ask your question here. No such thing as a dumb question in my way of thinking. ".
Are you acknowledging me as the 1909-S and 1909-S V.D.B. expert around here now? If so, please stop as being recognized as such I am not worthy of. Now, Harsche, there's your real expert. The only discrepency, if you will, in Harsche's 5th and 6th editions of Detecting Counterfeit and Altered Coins is that Harsche never saw what we now know as 1909-S V.D.B. from PCGS obverse die #1. Obviously, no expert can identify and list what they don't see. It so happens that a 1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent from PCGS obverse die #1 is scarcer than an example from any of the other three obverse dies used for SVDB. The difference between the dies is in the position of the 's' mintmark.
I seldom agree with anything I see you spout here; please get a life outside of here...
Thanks for posting the beautiful image, showing both sides, of my first SVDB, the SVDB that ultimately was determined by PCGS to be a counterfeit.
Any here who are interested in WHY this piece was eventually determined to be a counterfeit by the TPG that graded and authenticated it, ask your questions. This is the place for those questions,so fire away.
Wouldn't it be easier to just post the link to the previous thread where the original SVDB drama is located?
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
My blood sugar tends to run on the high side so I would decline those presumably sweet Harsch puppies. I would bring celery sticks with peanut butter in the stick channels for myself and others to enjoy.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@jmlanzaf said:
Wouldn't it be easier to just post the link to the previous thread where the original SVDB drama is located?
You mean the original post where he made a complete fool of himself?
Master of the ad hominem logical fallacy has spoken.
Here's a pic of one of my 1909-S cents. This particular one is from Harsche obverse die #6, a die that was NOT USED for 1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent. This '09-S occupies the space in my Whitman Classic album, 1909-1940:
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
It's good practice when posting images to identify the image with a caption. Puts the image into proper context, if you know what I mean.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
It's good practice when posting images to identify the image with a caption. Puts the image into proper context, if you know what I mean.
As I'm not sure of the various variations of this coin, these photos may not be definitive. I overlayed the letters on this 09 and 09SVDB to insure equality of placement and then placed a line to differentiate the shallow and normal "N's" and found on the 6 or so I checked all had a different placement of the line in comparison. The shallow N line is placed at the depth of the V as is the Normal N line. Both have different placements regarding the other letters as shown here.
As to the offered coin for analysis, it appears to me to be the shallow N. Notice that there is letter differences due to wear in the damaged coin. Again, I realize this is not a definitive diagnostic, but does show the other letter differences. Hope it helps.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
It's good practice when posting images to identify the image with a caption. Puts the image into proper context, if you know what I mean.
If you have to explain it, it's not as funny.
I suggested making a caption to go along with the image, not an explanation of why you think it's funny.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
It's good practice when posting images to identify the image with a caption. Puts the image into proper context, if you know what I mean.
If you have to explain it, it's not as funny.
I suggested making a caption to go along with the image, not an explanation of why you think it's funny.
@jesbroken said:
As I'm not sure of the various variations of this coin, these photos may not be definitive. I overlayed the letters on this 09 and 09SVDB to insure equality of placement and then placed a line to differentiate the shallow and normal "N's" and found on the 6 or so I checked all had a different placement of the line in comparison. The shallow N line is placed at the depth of the V as is the Normal N line. Both have different placements regarding the other letters as shown here.
As to the offered coin for analysis, it appears to me to be the shallow N. Notice that there is letter differences due to wear in the damaged coin. Again, I realize this is not a definitive diagnostic, but does show the other letter differences. Hope it helps.
Jim
The holed piece shown here IS definitely NOT a 1909-S V.D.B.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@burfle23 said:
Is this possibly the whispering VDB? Large seller has it listed on the Bay:
I don't know. You're the expert, why don't you tell us?
I don't recall stating that here like you did ...
You stated:
" I can pretty much answer any questions you might have about 1909-S Lincoln cents or it's variation, the 1909-S Lincoln cent with V.D.B., so If you came here to learn about 1909-S or 1909-S V.D.B. ask your question here. No such thing as a dumb question in my way of thinking. ".
Are you acknowledging me as the 1909-S and 1909-S V.D.B. expert around here now? If so, please stop as being recognized as such I am not worthy of. Now, Harsche, there's your real expert. The only discrepency, if you will, in Harsche's 5th and 6th editions of Detecting Counterfeit and Altered Coins is that Harsche never saw what we now know as 1909-S V.D.B. from PCGS obverse die #1. Obviously, no expert can identify and list what they don't see. It so happens that a 1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent from PCGS obverse die #1 is scarcer than an example from any of the other three obverse dies used for SVDB. The difference between the dies is in the position of the 's' mintmark.
I seldom agree with anything I see you spout here; please get a life outside of here...
Thanks for posting the beautiful image, showing both sides, of my first SVDB, the SVDB that ultimately was determined by PCGS to be a counterfeit.
Any here who are interested in WHY this piece was eventually determined to be a counterfeit by the TPG that graded and authenticated it, ask your questions. This is the place for those questions,so fire away.
The 's' mintmark on the counterfeit piece is genuine. The 's' was not added after it left the mint. The die chip in the upper serif of the 's' mintmark was evident despite the coin being assigned a relatively low grade, PCGS F15. F15 as a grade is definitely on the low side of the population of TPG graded 1909-S V.D.B.'s, no matter the TPG. How much did I pay to acquire my first SVDB? $620. Two years later I traded it for a real SVDB (pictured, PCGS #44090046) from the dealer who sold me the counterfeit. It was unbeknownst to him at the time of sale that it was a fake. PCGS F15 1909-S V.D.B.'s were trading for a little south of $1000 when I turned my fake in for replacement.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@robec said:
If the VDB is right on this coin, the S mint mark is a fake. No authentic SVDB has a reverse with that N.
Is the VDB right?
I can’t see a VDB. Is that what a Whispering VDB means? At any rate, if there is a VDB there, then it is a fake. The 1909-S has both shallow and deep Ns as does the 1909-P VDB, but the S-VDB only has the shallow.
@robec It's a coin that @burfle23 found on ebay listed as a S VDB from a large seller. (He had it removed)
I think he posted it to see if mr1931S would catch that there is no VDB and he didn't.
" The holed piece shown here IS definitely NOT a 1909-S V.D.B."
Can you add some reasons/proof why you feel this way? Nobody cares about your opinions if you can't back them up. The holed cent has alot of similarities of the shallow N cent in the diagram.
PS: And with your past record of (mis)identifying genuine S-VDB cents nobody it going to believe what you have to say without proving it first.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
" The holed piece shown here IS definitely NOT a 1909-S V.D.B."
Can you add some reasons/proof why you feel this way? Nobody cares about your opinions if you can't back them up. The holed cent has alot of similarities of the shallow N cent in the diagram.
PS: And with your past record of (mis)identifying genuine S-VDB cents nobody it going to believe what you have to say without proving it first.
The coin is definitely not a 1909-S V.D.B. Where is the 's'?
"Cain't have a 1909-S VdotDdotBdot if you cain't see the 's' now cain you?"
---mr1931s
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
I can pretty much answer any questions you might have about 1909-S Lincoln cents or it's variation, the 1909-S Lincoln cent with V.D.B., so If you came here to learn about 1909-S or 1909-S V.D.B. ask your question here. No such thing as a dumb question in my way of thinking.
Okay, is or was this an 09-S-VDB? I've posted this coin many times before. I'm just hoping for another answer. 😂 🤣
@robec said:
If the VDB is right on this coin, the S mint mark is a fake. No authentic SVDB has a reverse with that N.
Is the VDB right?
I can’t see a VDB. Is that what a Whispering VDB means? At any rate, if there is a VDB there, then it is a fake. The 1909-S has both shallow and deep Ns as does the 1909-P VDB, but the S-VDB only has the shallow.
"Whispering VDB" is a term I coined (no pun intended) for those examples of 1909-S V.D.B. with a faint VDB. Back in the day, I did not receive authorization from the committee to say "whispering" instead of "faint."
Whispering=Faint. I just think the word "faint" should be reserved for talk about people passing out or losing consciousness.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@robec said:
If the VDB is right on this coin, the S mint mark is a fake. No authentic SVDB has a reverse with that N.
Is the VDB right?
I can’t see a VDB. Is that what a Whispering VDB means? At any rate, if there is a VDB there, then it is a fake. The 1909-S has both shallow and deep Ns as does the 1909-P VDB, but the S-VDB only has the shallow.
"Whispering VDB" is a term I coined (no pun intended) for those examples of 1909-S V.D.B. with a faint VDB. Back in the day, I did not receive authorization from the committee to say "whispering" instead of "faint."
Whispering=Faint. I just think the word "faint" should be reserved for talk about people passing out or losing consciousness.
So is the one that @burfle23 posted and asked you about a "faint" or "whispering" VDB?
He has asked you a couple of times.
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
It's good practice when posting images to identify the image with a caption. Puts the image into proper context, if you know what I mean.
If you have to explain it, it's not as funny.
I suggested making a caption to go along with the image, not an explanation of why you think it's funny.
You either know who it is = funny. Or you don't.
Well, it wouldn't be too big a risk of wrecking the funny if you could let folks know who the picture is of, would it?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
My blood sugar tends to run on the high side so I would decline those presumably sweet Harsch puppies.
Harsche puppies raise your blood sugar if it's too low and lower it if it's too high, so they're good for everyone.
@IkesT said:
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
My blood sugar tends to run on the high side so I would decline those presumably sweet Harsch puppies.
Harsche puppies raise your blood sugar if it's too low and lower it if it's too high, so they're good for everyone.
Are your Harsche puppies Chihuahuas? And do you eat them? I'll pass on eating Chihuahua, thank you very much.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
I'm not sure how the OP (mr1931s) acts normal on one post then so childish on the next? DID perhaps (dissociative identity disorder)? It definitely seems like conversing with 2 different people.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@robec said:
If the VDB is right on this coin, the S mint mark is a fake. No authentic SVDB has a reverse with that N.
Is the VDB right?
I can’t see a VDB. Is that what a Whispering VDB means? At any rate, if there is a VDB there, then it is a fake. The 1909-S has both shallow and deep Ns as does the 1909-P VDB, but the S-VDB only has the shallow.
"Whispering VDB" is a term I coined (no pun intended) for those examples of 1909-S V.D.B. with a faint VDB. Back in the day, I did not receive authorization from the committee to say "whispering" instead of "faint."
Whispering=Faint. I just think the word "faint" should be reserved for talk about people passing out or losing consciousness.
So is the one that @burfle23 posted and asked you about a "faint" or "whispering" VDB?
He has asked you a couple of times.
You know, I think I could get along with burfle23 just fine around here if he'd take himself off the committee.
I wish I could post a picture of a whispering VDB for you all to_ see_ for yourself what Harsche and I mean when we say "faint" (Harsche) or "whispering" (me).
"It is well known (italics and bold mine, vamz) that some 1909-S V.D.B. pieces exist with faint V.D.B. initials (faintest at the bottom of the letters). These coins come from die No. 3 LR but not all coins from No. 3 LR (LR means "low right 's') have the faint V.D.B."
My SVDB, PCGS #44090046, is from Harsche obverse die No. 3 which is the same thing as PCGS obverse die #4.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@robec said:
If the VDB is right on this coin, the S mint mark is a fake. No authentic SVDB has a reverse with that N.
Is the VDB right?
I can’t see a VDB. Is that what a Whispering VDB means? At any rate, if there is a VDB there, then it is a fake. The 1909-S has both shallow and deep Ns as does the 1909-P VDB, but the S-VDB only has the shallow.
"Whispering VDB" is a term I coined (no pun intended) for those examples of 1909-S V.D.B. with a faint VDB. Back in the day, I did not receive authorization from the committee to say "whispering" instead of "faint."
Whispering=Faint. I just think the word "faint" should be reserved for talk about people passing out or losing consciousness.
So is the one that @burfle23 posted and asked you about a "faint" or "whispering" VDB?
He has asked you a couple of times.
You know, I think I could get along with burfle23 just fine around here if he'd take himself off the committee.
I wish I could post a picture of a whispering VDB for you all to_ see_ for yourself what Harsche and I mean when we say "faint" (Harsche) or "whispering" (me).
"It is well known (italics and bold mine, vamz) that some 1909-S V.D.B. pieces exist with faint V.D.B. initials (faintest at the bottom of the letters). These coins come from die No. 3 LR but not all coins from No. 3 LR (LR means "low right 's') have the faint V.D.B."
My SVDB, PCGS #44090046, is from Harsche obverse die No. 3 which is the same thing as PCGS obverse die #4.
@robec said:
If the VDB is right on this coin, the S mint mark is a fake. No authentic SVDB has a reverse with that N.
Is the VDB right?
I can’t see a VDB. Is that what a Whispering VDB means? At any rate, if there is a VDB there, then it is a fake. The 1909-S has both shallow and deep Ns as does the 1909-P VDB, but the S-VDB only has the shallow.
"Whispering VDB" is a term I coined (no pun intended) for those examples of 1909-S V.D.B. with a faint VDB. Back in the day, I did not receive authorization from the committee to say "whispering" instead of "faint."
Whispering=Faint. I just think the word "faint" should be reserved for talk about people passing out or losing consciousness.
So is the one that @burfle23 posted and asked you about a "faint" or "whispering" VDB?
He has asked you a couple of times.
You know, I think I could get along with burfle23 just fine around here if he'd take himself off the committee.
I wish I could post a picture of a whispering VDB for you all to_ see_ for yourself what Harsche and I mean when we say "faint" (Harsche) or "whispering" (me).
"It is well known (italics and bold mine, vamz) that some 1909-S V.D.B. pieces exist with faint V.D.B. initials (faintest at the bottom of the letters). These coins come from die No. 3 LR but not all coins from No. 3 LR (LR means "low right 's') have the faint V.D.B."
My SVDB, PCGS #44090046, is from Harsche obverse die No. 3 which is the same thing as PCGS obverse die #4.
Q. And did you answer my original question if the example I posted qualified as a whispering one?
A. Qualifies as neither faint nor whispering. No VDB seen.
I am still at a loss why you even started this discussion in the 1st lace...
Educational. I'm sharing my experience with and knowledge of 1909-S cents with all forum members who are interested in the topic. Not interested or just want to be goofy? Don't participate. In plainer language, avoid posting in this, or any educational thread here for that matter, unless you have something worthwhile to contribute.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
He didn't delete his last one as there is no "edit" in the title box - he just wrote "deleted" to add to his post count and bring this thread to the top of the discussion thread.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@Steven59 said:
He didn't delete his last one as there is no "edit" in the title box - he just wrote "deleted" to add to his post count and bring this thread to the top of the discussion thread.
I see that now, you are correct.
He just needs more attention because he has no friends or a life.
Comments
I think we all may be suffering from low blood sugar, so you're all invited to my house for some delicious Harsch puppies. After lunch, we can watch my favorite movie: Harsche...Harsche, Sweet Charlotte.
It still looks like the webbing is there to me. Better, clearer photos are needed
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I keep wobbling on this one but lean towards deep N. Agree that a razor sharp reverse pic will settle it.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I know, one of the photos look like maybe it’s deep, but most don’t. When I look at photos of the deep ones they rarely are mistaken for shallow. Depending on lighting some shallows can look similar to a deep, but they are still obviously not. Better photos are definitely needed.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Can a man be an expert OB/GYN?
Only if he identifies as a woman first!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
It is pretty difficult to distinguish without a close-up as stated.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Thanks for posting the beautiful image, showing both sides, of my first SVDB, the SVDB that ultimately was determined by PCGS to be a counterfeit.
Any here who are interested in WHY this piece was eventually determined to be a counterfeit by the TPG that graded and authenticated it, ask your questions. This is the place for those questions,so fire away.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Sometimes saying nothing is the best route to take.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
@mr1931S You are soo starved for attention that you don't care if it's negative. Get a life! Or maybe get a puppy.
Wouldn't it be easier to just post the link to the previous thread where the original SVDB drama is located?
My blood sugar tends to run on the high side so I would decline those presumably sweet Harsch puppies. I would bring celery sticks with peanut butter in the stick channels for myself and others to enjoy.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Master of the ad hominem logical fallacy has spoken.
Here's a pic of one of my 1909-S cents. This particular one is from Harsche obverse die #6, a die that was NOT USED for 1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent. This '09-S occupies the space in my Whitman Classic album, 1909-1940:
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
I will say it again, You are soo starved for attention that you don't care if it's negative.
deleted
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
It's good practice when posting images to identify the image with a caption. Puts the image into proper context, if you know what I mean.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
If you have to explain it, it's not as funny.
As I'm not sure of the various variations of this coin, these photos may not be definitive. I overlayed the letters on this 09 and 09SVDB to insure equality of placement and then placed a line to differentiate the shallow and normal "N's" and found on the 6 or so I checked all had a different placement of the line in comparison. The shallow N line is placed at the depth of the V as is the Normal N line. Both have different placements regarding the other letters as shown here.
As to the offered coin for analysis, it appears to me to be the shallow N. Notice that there is letter differences due to wear in the damaged coin. Again, I realize this is not a definitive diagnostic, but does show the other letter differences. Hope it helps.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I suggested making a caption to go along with the image, not an explanation of why you think it's funny.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
You either know who it is = funny. Or you don't.
The holed piece shown here IS definitely NOT a 1909-S V.D.B.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
The 's' mintmark on the counterfeit piece is genuine. The 's' was not added after it left the mint. The die chip in the upper serif of the 's' mintmark was evident despite the coin being assigned a relatively low grade, PCGS F15. F15 as a grade is definitely on the low side of the population of TPG graded 1909-S V.D.B.'s, no matter the TPG. How much did I pay to acquire my first SVDB? $620. Two years later I traded it for a real SVDB (pictured, PCGS #44090046) from the dealer who sold me the counterfeit. It was unbeknownst to him at the time of sale that it was a fake. PCGS F15 1909-S V.D.B.'s were trading for a little south of $1000 when I turned my fake in for replacement.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Nobody cares!
I can’t see a VDB. Is that what a Whispering VDB means? At any rate, if there is a VDB there, then it is a fake. The 1909-S has both shallow and deep Ns as does the 1909-P VDB, but the S-VDB only has the shallow.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
We have a winner!
It's whispering soo soft you can't hear it.
@robec It's a coin that @burfle23 found on ebay listed as a S VDB from a large seller. (He had it removed)
I think he posted it to see if mr1931S would catch that there is no VDB and he didn't.
Can you add some reasons/proof why you feel this way? Nobody cares about your opinions if you can't back them up. The holed cent has alot of similarities of the shallow N cent in the diagram.
PS: And with your past record of (mis)identifying genuine S-VDB cents nobody it going to believe what you have to say without proving it first.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
The coin is definitely not a 1909-S V.D.B. Where is the 's'?
"Cain't have a 1909-S VdotDdotBdot if you cain't see the 's' now cain you?"
---mr1931s
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
That’s a hell of a place to put a hole!
My YouTube Channel
The question is was it an S VDB at one time before someone punched a hole it.
If you are going to participate in your own thread and show us what an expert you are please try to keep up.
"Whispering VDB" is a term I coined (no pun intended) for those examples of 1909-S V.D.B. with a faint VDB. Back in the day, I did not receive authorization from the committee to say "whispering" instead of "faint."
Whispering=Faint. I just think the word "faint" should be reserved for talk about people passing out or losing consciousness.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
So is the one that @burfle23 posted and asked you about a "faint" or "whispering" VDB?
He has asked you a couple of times.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Well, it wouldn't be too big a risk of wrecking the funny if you could let folks know who the picture is of, would it?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Harsche puppies raise your blood sugar if it's too low and lower it if it's too high, so they're good for everyone.
Are your Harsche puppies Chihuahuas? And do you eat them? I'll pass on eating Chihuahua, thank you very much.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
I'm not sure how the OP (mr1931s) acts normal on one post then so childish on the next? DID perhaps (dissociative identity disorder)? It definitely seems like conversing with 2 different people.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Why not? You seem to think you can have one when you can't see the V.D.B.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
You know, I think I could get along with burfle23 just fine around here if he'd take himself off the committee.
I wish I could post a picture of a whispering VDB for you all to_ see_ for yourself what Harsche and I mean when we say "faint" (Harsche) or "whispering" (me).
Harsche 5th Edition, ©1973 :
"It is well known (italics and bold mine, vamz) that some 1909-S V.D.B. pieces exist with faint V.D.B. initials (faintest at the bottom of the letters). These coins come from die No. 3 LR but not all coins from No. 3 LR (LR means "low right 's') have the faint V.D.B."
My SVDB, PCGS #44090046, is from Harsche obverse die No. 3 which is the same thing as PCGS obverse die #4.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
And then the parking lot looked like fun...
@mr1931S :
What committee???
And did you answer my original question if the example I posted qualified as a whispering one?
I am still at a loss why you even started this discussion in the 1st place...
A. Qualifies as neither faint nor whispering. No VDB seen.
I am still at a loss why you even started this discussion in the 1st lace...
Educational. I'm sharing my experience with and knowledge of 1909-S cents with all forum members who are interested in the topic. Not interested or just want to be goofy? Don't participate. In plainer language, avoid posting in this, or any educational thread here for that matter, unless you have something worthwhile to contribute.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
deleted
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong.”
“Then you trust more to your imagination than to your knowledge?”
“I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.”
Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
Looks like @mr1931s is up to his old trick of deleting his stupid posts.
He didn't delete his last one as there is no "edit" in the title box - he just wrote "deleted" to add to his post count and bring this thread to the top of the discussion thread.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I see that now, you are correct.
He just needs more attention because he has no friends or a life.