@JBK said:
I have a sub for one each of the proofs. Do I try to increase to 2? 🤔
I would not be heartbroken to have one nice example of each, but should I order 2 of each as an insurance policy? Or maybe I'll want two of each. These might be stunners.
Just thinking out loud...
Stay with one. These will be cheap just like the uncirculated. My 2 cents
@SPalladino said:
Subscriptions for the Morgan and Peace proofs will be locked as of midnight (EDT) tomorrow. There have been reductions of subscriptions for seven days, meaning that available subscriptions have risen, and that the higher number of unsubscribed coins roll over into day of release sales.
.
Based on mint data, there will be an estimated 71-79K Morgan proofs and 72-80K proofs available for sale on release day. For comparison, there may have been 40-60K of the uncs available on their release day.
Your spreadsheet shows that there is a huge demand for the RP set!
I'm glad that I reserved 5 sets.......
@SPalladino said:
Subscriptions for the Morgan and Peace proofs will be locked as of midnight (EDT) tomorrow. There have been reductions of subscriptions for seven days, meaning that available subscriptions have risen, and that the higher number of unsubscribed coins roll over into day of release sales.
.
Based on mint data, there will be an estimated 71-79K Morgan proofs and 72-80K proofs available for sale on release day. For comparison, there may have been 40-60K of the uncs available on their release day.
Your spreadsheet shows that there is a huge demand for the RP set!
I'm glad that I reserved 5 sets.......
It's been fully subbed for some time now, except for a few days where a bunch showed up for a few days. I also reserved as many as I could.
Well...I shipped my 10 Uncs off to PCGS. Of course, now I wonder what will happen if the form gets lost or something. Because I'm paranoid. For the proofs, I'll stick a piece of paper with my info in each wrapped bundle of coins.
I'd probably downsize my proof order, but my OCD requires me to have the same number of each type
That comes with some great attachments too! Looks like there’s one on there for filling up rafts/tubes.
Edit: Just under 30 bucks on Amazon. Ordered one. Thanks for the HU.
That comes with some great attachments too! Looks like there’s one on there for filling up rafts/tubes.
Edit: Just under 30 bucks on Amazon. Ordered one. Thanks for the HU.
You're welcome.
You will love....I use it all the time.
Those chemical compressed air cans are very expensive and eventually die.
Lord help you if you shake the can.
This guy keeps on going and easy recharging with USB-C..
I blew up this big blue exercise ball in short order.
@HATTRICK said:
My MS70 Peace and Morgan are coming tomorrow. I will be waiting all day as we are at the end of every route. Also can’t wait for the proofs.
Fantastic. I’m dialed back to one each for the proofs and up one on the reverse proofs 2 sets. No faith in the proofs. Heck, I’m even on the fence about the reverse proofs. We’ll see. Thanks 🙏
In the last ~72 hours, there have been nearly 45,000 subscription reductions for each of the proofs (45,143 for the Morgan proofs, and 45,351 for the Peace proofs). This was far from what was seen for the uncs, where we saw small increases in subscriptions. There appears to have been lessons learned from the uncs that are being applied to the proofs. Consequently, there will be in excess of about 94K of each proof available for purchase on release day.
In the process of reducing their proof subs, some folks have also recued theit 2024 unc subs a bit, but not nearly to the degree seen with the 2023 proof subs.
The RP set subs are quite stable at fully subscribed level.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@SPalladino said:
In the last ~72 hours, there have been nearly 45,000 subscription reductions for each of the proofs (45,143 for the Morgan proofs, and 45,351 for the Peace proofs). This was far from what was seen for the uncs, where we saw small increases in subscriptions. There appears to have been lessons learned from the uncs that are being applied to the proofs. Consequently, there will be in excess of about 94K of each proof available for purchase on release day.
In the process of reducing their proof subs, some folks have also recued theit 2024 unc subs a bit, but not nearly to the degree seen with the 2023 proof subs.
The RP set subs are quite stable at fully subscribed level.
I will be adding to that reduction at noon pacific today 😅
@spyglassdesign said:
I will be adding to that reduction at noon pacific today 😅
.
I imagine that with about 11 hours to go until the mint locks in the subscription numbers, there will be additional subscription reductions to report tomorrow, after the dust has settled a bit.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Now up to 11% of the total Morgan unc mintage and 10% of the total Peace unc mintage have been graded by PCGS and NGC combined. Also, the collector submission labels (base label and First Strike) continue to dilute down the FDOI and Advance Release labels, with, for example, 39% (Morgan) and 38% (Peace) of the PCGS graded population being base label and First Strike (was 14% and 17%, respectively on July 21).
. Collector submissions to PCGS and NGC (base label and First Strike/Early Releases) are grading at a rate of about 89% 70s for the Morgan unc, and 86% 70s for the Peace unc.
.
Summary table:
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@RichR said:
I'm still holding at 4 proofs for each coin...I suspect that the excess will be mopped up pretty quality on sale day...or the day after.
.......or the day after that.
Or the day after or the day after…..
There’s uncirculated available every day. That’s only 275,000. 400,000 proofs will follow suit. Too dang many!!!
The RP’s are probably going to get caught in the limbo and too dang many. Thanks 🙏
@Jzyskowski1 said:
There’s uncirculated available every day.
.
...and why do you think that is?
Because, after all, they did sell out in 1h10m or less on release day....and only a relative handful come "available every day".
.
The RP’s are probably going to get caught in the limbo and too dang many.
Based on your rationale, I disagree. But, we conjecture, and we will see.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@RichR said:
I'm still holding at 4 proofs for each coin...I suspect that the excess will be mopped up pretty quality on sale day...or the day after.
.......or the day after that.
Since, it appears wagers are being placed...I'm going with 7 days after release, before a sellout!
Next...
I think there is a distinct chance that the proofs sell out on release day. I guess that if it is a day one sell-out, it will take at least 6 hours to do so. That said, it would not surprise me if they did not sell out until day 2, and it would surprise me if they took any more than day of release + 1 day to sell out.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@Jzyskowski1 said:
There’s uncirculated available every day.
.
...and why do you think that is?
Because, after all, they did sell out in 1h10m or less on release day....and only a relative handful come "available every day".
.
The RP’s are probably going to get caught in the limbo and too dang many.
Based on your rationale, I disagree. But, we conjecture, and we will see.
Steve. Your a great formite. Others could learn a lot from your grace in talking with other members. Polite and not argumentative. I enjoy the fact that you express yourself clearly and have a way of talking that allows others their thoughts and opinions while offering your thoughts. Thanks buddy
@fathom said:
The proofs might be tougher in the 70 grade because the surfaces will show even the slightest mark, abrasion.
If the big buyers are requesting 70 minimum grade then how relevant are these grade percentages right now?
I'm not sure whether you are referencing the data that I posted. That said:
.
The data that I have presented is solely for the uncs. There are no data for grading populations of the proofs yet. The ABPP folks probably just received their purchased allotment only 2 days ago.
.
And, as I present the data for the uncs, I do distinguish between what the rate of 70s FDOI and Advanced Releases labels (~99% 70s) and the rate of 70s for collector submission labels (base label and First Strike), which are about 89% for the Morgan uncs and 86% for the Peace uncs at this point.
.
I share your concern that the proofs might have a bit harder time coming in at PR70. We will not begin to know for sure until there are sufficient collector label populations (base label and First Strike) to support our hypothesis.
That pre-sales of the proofs in 70 are carrying a slightly higher premium than the uncs, while having a higher mintage, may be revealing that those making those offers suspect the same thing that we do.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@fathom said:
The proofs might be tougher in the 70 grade because the surfaces will show even the slightest mark, abrasion.
If the big buyers are requesting 70 minimum grade then how relevant are these grade percentages right now?
I'm not sure whether you are referencing the data that I posted. That said:
.
The data that I have presented is solely for the uncs. There are no data for grading populations of the proofs yet. The ABPP folks probably just received their purchased allotment only 2 days ago.
.
And, as I present the data for the uncs, I do distinguish between what the rate of 70s FDOI and Advanced Releases labels (~99% 70s) and the rate of 70s for collector submission labels (base label and First Strike), which are about 89% for the Morgan uncs and 86% for the Peace uncs at this point.
.
I share your concern that the proofs might have a bit harder time coming in at PR70. We will not begin to know for sure until there are sufficient collector label populations (base label and First Strike) to support our hypothesis.
That pre-sales of the proofs in 70 are carrying a slightly higher premium than the uncs, while having a higher mintage, may be revealing that those making those offers suspect the same thing that we do.
Yes, I am referring to the unc %.
If big numbers of minimum ms70 are being sent in then the ms70 grade will be much higher initially. Hard to say how much lower it will go, but way too early to draw a conclusion IMO.
Hard to say how much lower it will go, but way too early to draw a conclusion IMO.
I appreciate your opinion, but having followed the 2021 Morgan and Peace uncs, and now the collector submission rates for the 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs, I would estimate that the overall rate of 70s in 6-12 months for the 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs will be likely not higher than 92% and not likely lower than 85%. And if I had to put a more precise number on it, I would estimate 90% for the Morgan uncs and 88% for the Peace uncs.
.
2021 data from 12/21/2021 to 7/23/2023:
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I think that, when the dust has settled, the proofs and reverse proofs will be more popular and in demand than the uncirculated coins.
As far as most collectors are concerned, the Morgan and Peace dollars are commemoratives. And when the mint offers commemoratives for sale, proofs outsell uncirculated strikes by around 3 to 1, even though the proofs cost slightly more. I believe this is representative of actual collector demand, since there appears to be little speculative interest in proof commemoratives. The proofs and reverse proofs should get an additional boost from the fact that both designs are very popular, and this is the first chance for the average collector to obtain either design in proof quality at an affordable price.
Comments
I reduced mine. I think the market will have plenty of proofs to meet demand.
Stay with one. These will be cheap just like the uncirculated. My 2 cents
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Your spreadsheet shows that there is a huge demand for the RP set!
I'm glad that I reserved 5 sets.......
It's been fully subbed for some time now, except for a few days where a bunch showed up for a few days. I also reserved as many as I could.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
So far, I've reserved 4 each for the proofs...and 7 RP sets.
I'm happy with my choices as, comparatively speaking, the entire lot of these will cost me roughly as much as a single higher priced classic coin.
7 RP sets? How since the max is 5?
easy. The family plan.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Well...I shipped my 10 Uncs off to PCGS. Of course, now I wonder what will happen if the form gets lost or something. Because I'm paranoid. For the proofs, I'll stick a piece of paper with my info in each wrapped bundle of coins.
I'd probably downsize my proof order, but my OCD requires me to have the same number of each type
The last year a proof Morgan $1 was minted was the very rare Chapman Proof.
PR67
The last year a standard Morgan $1 proof was minted was 1904.
Look at this example from PCGS TrueView.
PR67
I wish they'd hurry up.
Got mine a few days ago.
They are indeed stunning! (whether it's 69 or 70).
Very nice, congrats.
Direct from the mint.
Say what's that? Pink fiber?
Oh great....now I've got to open the capsule and try to remove it. Maybe a puff of canned air?
Last time the threads were blue.
This is what I use. The price has really come down.
BTW, I love this gadget.....no chance of chemical residue on coin surface.
100,000 rpm
Compressed Air Duster
It's got very high ratings.
That comes with some great attachments too! Looks like there’s one on there for filling up rafts/tubes.
Edit: Just under 30 bucks on Amazon. Ordered one. Thanks for the HU.
You're welcome.
You will love....I use it all the time.
Those chemical compressed air cans are very expensive and eventually die.
Lord help you if you shake the can.
This guy keeps on going and easy recharging with USB-C..
I blew up this big blue exercise ball in short order.
Currently 2 reverse proof subscriptions are available
My MS70 Peace and Morgan are coming tomorrow. I will be waiting all day as we are at the end of every route. Also can’t wait for the proofs.
Fantastic. I’m dialed back to one each for the proofs and up one on the reverse proofs 2 sets. No faith in the proofs. Heck, I’m even on the fence about the reverse proofs. We’ll see. Thanks 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
That is the rare Barbie dollar. One of 200 threads. Maybe they will certify it in the capsule
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Available now hurry
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Morgan still available
edited to add: Big boy over stocked on 69's returns.
re-edited to add: Unavailable now
Interview with Pinehurst Coins CEO - 2023 Morgan & Peace Dollars, ABPP, Silver Eagle Premiums & More
July 19, 2023.
Set Showing available again
Available now
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
One of mine had something like that. I opened the capsule and blew very lightly on it, and the thread was gone. I didn't have to take the coin out.
😳
In the last ~72 hours, there have been nearly 45,000 subscription reductions for each of the proofs (45,143 for the Morgan proofs, and 45,351 for the Peace proofs). This was far from what was seen for the uncs, where we saw small increases in subscriptions. There appears to have been lessons learned from the uncs that are being applied to the proofs. Consequently, there will be in excess of about 94K of each proof available for purchase on release day.
In the process of reducing their proof subs, some folks have also recued theit 2024 unc subs a bit, but not nearly to the degree seen with the 2023 proof subs.
The RP set subs are quite stable at fully subscribed level.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I will be adding to that reduction at noon pacific today 😅
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
.
I imagine that with about 11 hours to go until the mint locks in the subscription numbers, there will be additional subscription reductions to report tomorrow, after the dust has settled a bit.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Now up to 11% of the total Morgan unc mintage and 10% of the total Peace unc mintage have been graded by PCGS and NGC combined. Also, the collector submission labels (base label and First Strike) continue to dilute down the FDOI and Advance Release labels, with, for example, 39% (Morgan) and 38% (Peace) of the PCGS graded population being base label and First Strike (was 14% and 17%, respectively on July 21).
.
Collector submissions to PCGS and NGC (base label and First Strike/Early Releases) are grading at a rate of about 89% 70s for the Morgan unc, and 86% 70s for the Peace unc.
.
Summary table:
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Got my MS 70 coins today. Stunning coins in MS 70 condition. I can’t wait for the proofs. I am addicted to shiny silver coins
... And my subs dropped to 9 morgan 5 peace based on pre-sold coins. So 16 more morgans and 20 more peace released!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
I'm still holding at 4 proofs for each coin...I suspect that the excess will be mopped up pretty quality on sale day...or the day after.
.......or the day after that.
Available now > @Goldbully said:
Or the day after or the day after…..
There’s uncirculated available every day. That’s only 275,000. 400,000 proofs will follow suit. Too dang many!!!
The RP’s are probably going to get caught in the limbo and too dang many. Thanks 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Since, it appears wagers are being placed...I'm going with 7 days after release, before a sellout!
Next...
BST references available on request
.
...and why do you think that is?
Because, after all, they did sell out in 1h10m or less on release day....and only a relative handful come "available every day".
.
Based on your rationale, I disagree. But, we conjecture, and we will see.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I think there is a distinct chance that the proofs sell out on release day. I guess that if it is a day one sell-out, it will take at least 6 hours to do so. That said, it would not surprise me if they did not sell out until day 2, and it would surprise me if they took any more than day of release + 1 day to sell out.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
The proofs might be tougher in the 70 grade because the surfaces will show even the slightest mark, abrasion.
If the big buyers are requesting 70 minimum grade then how relevant are these grade percentages right now?
Steve. Your a great formite. Others could learn a lot from your grace in talking with other members. Polite and not argumentative. I enjoy the fact that you express yourself clearly and have a way of talking that allows others their thoughts and opinions while offering your thoughts. Thanks buddy
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I'm not sure whether you are referencing the data that I posted. That said:
.
The data that I have presented is solely for the uncs. There are no data for grading populations of the proofs yet. The ABPP folks probably just received their purchased allotment only 2 days ago.
.
And, as I present the data for the uncs, I do distinguish between what the rate of 70s FDOI and Advanced Releases labels (~99% 70s) and the rate of 70s for collector submission labels (base label and First Strike), which are about 89% for the Morgan uncs and 86% for the Peace uncs at this point.
.
I share your concern that the proofs might have a bit harder time coming in at PR70. We will not begin to know for sure until there are sufficient collector label populations (base label and First Strike) to support our hypothesis.
That pre-sales of the proofs in 70 are carrying a slightly higher premium than the uncs, while having a higher mintage, may be revealing that those making those offers suspect the same thing that we do.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Yes, I am referring to the unc %.
If big numbers of minimum ms70 are being sent in then the ms70 grade will be much higher initially. Hard to say how much lower it will go, but way too early to draw a conclusion IMO.
Appreciate your work though, thanks.
I appreciate your opinion, but having followed the 2021 Morgan and Peace uncs, and now the collector submission rates for the 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs, I would estimate that the overall rate of 70s in 6-12 months for the 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs will be likely not higher than 92% and not likely lower than 85%. And if I had to put a more precise number on it, I would estimate 90% for the Morgan uncs and 88% for the Peace uncs.
.
2021 data from 12/21/2021 to 7/23/2023:
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
YUPPERS. Morgan and Peace available
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Available for over 13+ minutes
Good night
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I think that, when the dust has settled, the proofs and reverse proofs will be more popular and in demand than the uncirculated coins.
As far as most collectors are concerned, the Morgan and Peace dollars are commemoratives. And when the mint offers commemoratives for sale, proofs outsell uncirculated strikes by around 3 to 1, even though the proofs cost slightly more. I believe this is representative of actual collector demand, since there appears to be little speculative interest in proof commemoratives. The proofs and reverse proofs should get an additional boost from the fact that both designs are very popular, and this is the first chance for the average collector to obtain either design in proof quality at an affordable price.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
How many of those "retuned" Proof dollars have the special COA???