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V.D.B.

mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 4, 2022 9:38AM in U.S. Coin Forum

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  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2022 8:27AM

    This is Die#4

    A larger pic of the area would help. Your pic looks farther right.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 34,651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The VDB is not clear enough to verify it wasn’t added

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 34,651 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2022 8:49AM

    @mr1874 said:
    This piece has a companion. It is a without V.D.B.1909-S ANACS VF 20 from the same obverse die as the piece shown here.




    the reverse N is notched lower

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2022 8:47AM

    @BuffaloIronTail said:

    This is Die#4

    A larger pic of the area would help. Your pic looks farther right.

    Pete

    Compare the position of the 'S' relative to the date. My piece has the lowest, farthest right 'S' of all obverse dies used for 1909-S cents. Bert Harsche in "Detecting Altered Coins" Fifth edition identifies this die for 1909-S cents as #6, far low, far right (FLFR). Also, the 'S' on my SVDB tilts to the right much more than the 'S' seen on PCGS die #4

    Re: PCGS die #4 for 1909-S V.D.B.
    The 'S' is not as low nor is it as far right as the 'S' on my SVDB or my 1909-S without V.D.B., for that matter.

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:35PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:36PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If a Die#5 exists, where did they all go?

    I'm not the authority to make any call on this.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 34,651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    by added it could also mean embossed

    the color has been left off the label

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:36PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:37PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 34,651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It should read F15BN instead of F15

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 34,651 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Embossing involves opening a hole on the rim and use tools to push metal vertically to add an element. The hole is sealed afterwards.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:38PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 1:04PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have forwarded the images to my contact at PCGS for his opinion; stay tuned...

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 1:04PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 1:05PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 1:06PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:

    This is Die#4

    A larger pic of the area would help. Your pic looks farther right.

    Pete

    Here is closeup image of my 1909-S V.D.B., date and mintmark area:

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:39PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • Picker1954Picker1954 Posts: 183 ✭✭✭

    How about a closeup of the V.D.B.?

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:40PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • Picker1954Picker1954 Posts: 183 ✭✭✭

    It wouldn't confuse me. Post the pic. It makes it seem like you are hiding something otherwise.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2022 8:43AM

    Best we could do with the images provided @Picker1954 :

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:41PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • Picker1954Picker1954 Posts: 183 ✭✭✭

    This is from a coin that I owned at one time. I can't tell if the V.D.B. is the same.

  • Picker1954Picker1954 Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2022 11:28AM

    I found more pics.

    This where I found it.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:41PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • Picker1954Picker1954 Posts: 183 ✭✭✭

    That's not a shallow N. This is:

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:42PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:43PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Blurry photo of V.D.B. or not, it does not appear to me to be a genuine 1909 S "VDB". The tops of the dots shouldn't be inline. If wrong, I'll be glad to see better photos that prove the point. A quality photo would solve the issue. Cannot tell from photo's whether center of B is tilted NE or if the "N" is a Shallow N or not. I feel not, but then not positive of those two.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:44PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am curious if anyone thinks mr1874 has any compelling evidence for his previous claims about the source/ authenticity of this particular example. I can't see any of his comments on "ignore" but can only imagine...

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:44PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The "D" on your coin is wrong. Period.

    Keep on hemming and hawing about things that remain murky. Don't provide better pics. Keep explaining things away.

    I'm done with this.

    Bye.................................................

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • Picker1954Picker1954 Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2022 6:56AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku6bv1_G9ts

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:45PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:46PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2022 12:22PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 1:08PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • Picker1954Picker1954 Posts: 183 ✭✭✭

    What is holding you back from sending it back to PCGS to validate the coin? If they again say it's genuine, you have the only one graded.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 1:17PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Picker1954 said:
    What is holding you back from sending it back to PCGS to validate the coin? If they again say it's genuine, you have the only one graded.

    I would definitely ask them to state something on the label, like Hersche #5 or whispering VDB to diferentiate this unique piece.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:46PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mr1874 said:

    @Picker1954 said:
    What is holding you back from sending it back to PCGS to validate the coin? If they again say it's genuine, you have the only one graded.

    Would the coin in a generation 6.15 holder be validation enough?
    My SVDB is currently in a gen 6.1 holder.

    I don't believe so.

    The TPG could have made a mistake. Labeling errors are posted here regularly, and due to the volume of coins graded, it wouldn't be out of the question.

    IMO, you need to have this labeled on the slab as a new obverse or you'll continue to see serious doubts in the numismatic community. Another option is to write an article for a numismatic periodical such as the Numismatist or Coin Week. That would initiate serious discussion. Short of that, I haven't seen anything other than a lot of supposition. You still haven't shown the edges (or at least commented that you examined them in detail) by the mm or vdb, to rule out embossing.

    https://www.pcgs.com/news/watch-out-for-embossed-mintmarks

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:47PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're making an extraordinary claim. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Until you have additional evaluation from a TPG, publish an article, or have a bona fide Lincoln cent expert support your claim, I'm afraid it will be an uphill battle.

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:47PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2022 4:48PM

    delete

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

This discussion has been closed.