Did anyone here attend this auction in Delaware? Mostly unopened

grote15 · May 5, 2021 1:08PM

@handyman said:
No proof. But I only looked at the first case I pulled up and it was a 1987 Traded case.https://seashorehwyaac.com/product/lot-0629-1987-topps-traded-baseball-case-100-sets/?v=7516fd43adaa

Tape does not match this one on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184699120732?hash=item2b00ecec5c:g:jX0AAOSwutRgRRMt

They look like 2 different types of tape. The one on ebay is not just vertical lines(the lines in the tape itself) but also horizontal. The one from the auction house is only vertical. Also looks like new tape(similar but not topps issue) replaced the old tape.

Only one I looked at but it gives me question. Im guessing many are in question just after looking at the first one that came up.

Maybe someone more experienced can chime in.

Good point. That is not factory tape and you can see where the old tape residue doesnt match up with the new tape they put down.

handyman · May 5, 2021 1:27PM

New game for this auction is find something 100% factory sealed. Go
Tally is 0 so far.

Dgofwinter · May 5, 2021 1:58PM

Looks like he ended the listings. Hopefully not for a private sale. One has to believe he is reading this thread and did the right thing by taking them off eBay.

Griffins · May 5, 2021 2:17PM

Word is he's getting a refund. I'm really disappointed that he listed them after he was told they were bad, I vouched for him based on transactions here 20 years ago, guess things change.

Nam, it wasn't only Muggyman that dumped everything after getting advance notice of all those bad cellos, a few others did the same.

baz518 · May 5, 2021 2:26PM

So I assume the consignor of these items is under FBI scrutiny at this point? Isn't it illegal to sell known fraudulent items across state lines... especially a million+ dollars worth? Did this guy have a huge inventory and searched/resealed it all before consigning or are the wrappers/boxes suspect as well??

beachbumcollecting · May 5, 2021 2:35PM

@Griffins said:
Word is he's getting a refund. I'm really disappointed that he listed them after he was told they were bad, I vouched for him based on transactions here 20 years ago, guess things change.

Nam, it wasn't only Muggyman that dumped everything after getting advance notice of all those bad cellos, a few others did the same.

same , I didn't want to jump the gun but when he relisted them again today it was clear he knew what he was doing

the thing is I am sure a lot of this stuff went to other people who are not following and will not get refunds. They will probably put it away , maybe send it out on consignment somewhere else down the road unknowing of what they have. this crap will be circulating for a while. much like the early 70's grocery cellos and the 58 cellos . I haven't seen the 58's in a while but the grocery cellos still pop up pretty often

Cakes · May 5, 2021 2:39PM

@beachbumcollecting said:

@Griffins said:
Word is he's getting a refund. I'm really disappointed that he listed them after he was told they were bad, I vouched for him based on transactions here 20 years ago, guess things change.

Nam, it wasn't only Muggyman that dumped everything after getting advance notice of all those bad cellos, a few others did the same.

same , I didn't want to jump the gun but when he relisted them again today it was clear he knew what he was doing

the thing is I am sure a lot of this stuff went to other people who are not following and will not get refunds. They will probably put it away , maybe send it out on consignment somewhere else down the road unknowing of what they have. this crap will be circulating for a while. much like the early 70's grocery cellos and the 58 cellos . I haven't seen the 58's in a while but the grocery cellos still pop up pretty often

Griffins - How did you hear he is getting a refund?

beachbum - you speak the truth, this stuff will slowly get sold over the next 10 years. This is why I hate seeing people like bubblebath girl/guy buying empty wrappers and boxes. Just scary!

gemint · May 5, 2021 2:41PM

The key is to spread the word so as many collectors as possible know to steer clear of this stuff. It may circulate through the hobby for some time if all the buyers don't return it to the auction company. That was my motivation for posting the BBCE feedback. It wasn't meant to call anyone out but I guess that's unavoidable in a situation like this.

mexpo75 · May 5, 2021 2:48PM

If he was a victim of fraud he needs to come on here and explain. If he doesn't hell with him. He's just as bad as the auction house. Hope he gets stuck with that crap.

nam812 · May 5, 2021 2:54PM

@Griffins said:
Nam, it wasn't only Muggyman that dumped everything after getting advance notice of all those bad cellos, a few others did the same.

I was not aware of others, but I believe you.

grote15 · May 5, 2021 3:27PM

@Griffins said:
Word is he's getting a refund. I'm really disappointed that he listed them after he was told they were bad, I vouched for him based on transactions here 20 years ago, guess things change.

Nam, it wasn't only Muggyman that dumped everything after getting advance notice of all those bad cellos, a few others did the same.

I'm surprised to hear this as from what I've heard thus far about this auction house, they did not seem to be willing to entertain any option for product returns. However, I'd imagine at this point, the pressure is pretty significant on them.

gemint · May 5, 2021 3:32PM

@grote15 said:

@Griffins said:
Word is he's getting a refund. I'm really disappointed that he listed them after he was told they were bad, I vouched for him based on transactions here 20 years ago, guess things change.

Nam, it wasn't only Muggyman that dumped everything after getting advance notice of all those bad cellos, a few others did the same.

I'm surprised to hear this as from what I've heard thus far about this auction house, they did not seem to be willing to entertain any option for product returns. However, I'd imagine at this point, the pressure is pretty significant on them.

I agree. This wasn't a $500 scam. Ripoffs of this magnitude tend to bring a lot of heat.

jfkheat · May 5, 2021 3:38PM

This was posted on Facebook. "Total sales=$1,578,371-----Total Bidders=38---Total bidders less than 5K=22------Large purchases---13 Bidders purchased $1,492,545-----142k, 67k, 52k, 67k, 130k, 228, 162k, 50k, 95k, 236k, 39k, 88k, 131k"

blurryface · May 5, 2021 3:41PM

@jfkheat said:
This was posted on Facebook. "Total sales=$1,578,371-----Total Bidders=38---Total bidders less than 5K=22------Large purchases---13 Bidders purchased $1,492,545-----142k, 67k, 52k, 67k, 130k, 228, 162k, 50k, 95k, 236k, 39k, 88k, 131k"

nothing like publicly bragging about how much you scammed all while providing self incriminating evidence. gotta love facebook! 😉

PSA9s · May 5, 2021 3:42PM

Plausible deniability will not work here. Auction House is playing dumb, buyers are playing dumb, and consignor is playing dumb. It will be a courtroom full of dumbasses.

Gansetttime · May 5, 2021 3:46PM

@nam812 said:

@Griffins said:
Nam, it wasn't only Muggyman that dumped everything after getting advance notice of all those bad cellos, a few others did the same.

I was not aware of others, but I believe you.

I'd wager it was a lot worse than what actually came out. I felt that way since the **** hit the fan. And how quickly it died.

gemint · May 5, 2021 3:55PM

@jfkheat said:
This was posted on Facebook. "Total sales=$1,578,371-----Total Bidders=38---Total bidders less than 5K=22------Large purchases---13 Bidders purchased $1,492,545-----142k, 67k, 52k, 67k, 130k, 228, 162k, 50k, 95k, 236k, 39k, 88k, 131k"

Do you have a link?

jfkheat · May 5, 2021 3:57PM

@blurryface said:

@jfkheat said:
This was posted on Facebook. "Total sales=$1,578,371-----Total Bidders=38---Total bidders less than 5K=22------Large purchases---13 Bidders purchased $1,492,545-----142k, 67k, 52k, 67k, 130k, 228, 162k, 50k, 95k, 236k, 39k, 88k, 131k"

nothing like publicly bragging about how much you scammed all while providing self incriminating evidence. gotta love facebook! 😉

The person that posted the info got it all from the auction house website. If you look at individual items and click on BIDS, it shows an encrypted bidder name. Someone spent a lot of time going through the items to add up all those totals.

cincyredlegs · May 5, 2021 3:59PM

@nam812 said:

@Griffins said:
Nam, it wasn't only Muggyman that dumped everything after getting advance notice of all those bad cellos, a few others did the same.

I was not aware of others, but I believe you.

I can confirm what Anthony said. There were a lot of people on here posting how unethical Muggy was for selling bogus packs but they were shipping their Jose packs to Probstein to sell when it came out he was fabricating cellos and racks.

Funny how ethics leaves you when you have a ton of money tied up in fake/altered product.

jfkheat · May 5, 2021 3:59PM

@gemint said:

Do you have a link?

Hopefully this will work.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/937098246386987/?multi_permalinks=3922850591145056&comment_id=3945345562228892&notif_id=1620253992826541&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif

blurryface · May 5, 2021 4:04PM

@jfkheat said:

@blurryface said:

@jfkheat said:
This was posted on Facebook. "Total sales=$1,578,371-----Total Bidders=38---Total bidders less than 5K=22------Large purchases---13 Bidders purchased $1,492,545-----142k, 67k, 52k, 67k, 130k, 228, 162k, 50k, 95k, 236k, 39k, 88k, 131k"

nothing like publicly bragging about how much you scammed all while providing self incriminating evidence. gotta love facebook! 😉

The person that posted the info got it all from the auction house website. If you look at individual items and click on BIDS, it shows an encrypted bidder name. Someone spent a lot of time going through the items to add up all those totals.

aha. gotcha. on the flip side then...free P.I. work. gotta love facebook! 😉

Dgofwinter · May 5, 2021 4:25PM

“Funny how ethics leaves you when you have a ton of money tied up in fake/altered product.”
Exactly right!

ReggieCleveland · May 6, 2021 9:12AM

The tape on that '87 Traded case is hilarious. They might as well have used Target-branded tape to seal it. Trying to pass that off as factory is just downright insulting.

The amount of "factory sealed" Topps cases that have popped up since the terms BBCE FASC caused people to lose their marbles is quite something. As for the non-tape cases, they aren't hard to open without leaving evidence in the cardboard. I think I'm getting to the point where I'm going to start looking for older case breaks on some of this stuff; back before '87 Topps rack boxes were $100.

Arthur

gaspipe26 · May 7, 2021 7:18AM

Since my name was mentioned I figured I say something on the subject. I bought several items and I was not close to being the highest buyer. I boarded a plane with what I won immediately for Chicago and was in Steve's office an hour later. These boxes looked like they came out of cases. The 1976 Baseball look immaculate. Anyone who would see these would think so, right now if you saw them you would think so. Ive had conversations with several other buyers and they think so. Steve has reservations and he pointed them out. He also said he was not certain all the packs were resealed but he could not certify the boxes.
I was in the building where all the items were stored, it is massive, there were empty cases that these boxes came out of on the floor. If everything was jobbed, then it took years to do. Unfortunately myself and a few other buyers who I will not mention by name, if they care to respond they can do so, cannot stake our reputations on possibly altered material. I will only speak for myself but a few of us have reached agreement to return what we bought with the Auction House.
That being said, Ive also had some people tell me the stuff is good. I cant say as now Im confused. Im waiting on one box to arrive today from a very nice gentleman in NY who bought it and it all goes back, even the sets I won.

blurryface · May 7, 2021 7:30AM

@gaspipe26 said:
Since my name was mentioned I figured I say something on the subject. I bought several items and I was not close to being the highest buyer. I boarded a plane with what I won immediately for Chicago and was in Steve's office an hour later. These boxes looked like they came out of cases. The 1976 Baseball look immaculate. Anyone who would see these would think so, right now if you saw them you would think so. Ive had conversations with several other buyers and they think so. Steve has reservations and he pointed them out. He also said he was not certain all the packs were resealed but he could not certify the boxes.
I was in the building where all the items were stored, it is massive, there were empty cases that these boxes came out of on the floor. If everything was jobbed, then it took years to do. Unfortunately myself and a few other buyers who I will not mention by name, if they care to respond they can do so, cannot stake our reputations on possibly altered material. I will only speak for myself but a few of us have reached agreement to return what we bought with the Auction House.
That being said, Ive also had some people tell me the stuff is good. I cant say as now Im confused. Im waiting on one box to arrive today from a very nice gentleman in NY who bought it and it all goes back, even the sets I won.

did you try opening a box you are familiar with to see if the gum, collation, conditions are all in line? while steve is pretty much the go to, nobody is perfect. i'm thinking if i was pretty sure, regardless of someone else's opinion, i'd have to bite the bullet and find out for myself.

Mickey71 · May 7, 2021 7:38AM

Unless we're all ready to say Steve is not the man anymore.......If the "Hitman" said no....then it's no.

80sOPC · May 7, 2021 8:07AM

I think Steve is the man, but he gets beat. He auth'd a whole slew of high end cello's with stars on front.

80sOPC · May 7, 2021 8:09AM

Was thinking the same, before I sent it all back you can bet I'd pop open a pack to see what's inside. If legit, can always be replaced.

@blurryface said:

@gaspipe26 said:
Since my name was mentioned I figured I say something on the subject. I bought several items and I was not close to being the highest buyer. I boarded a plane with what I won immediately for Chicago and was in Steve's office an hour later. These boxes looked like they came out of cases. The 1976 Baseball look immaculate. Anyone who would see these would think so, right now if you saw them you would think so. Ive had conversations with several other buyers and they think so. Steve has reservations and he pointed them out. He also said he was not certain all the packs were resealed but he could not certify the boxes.
I was in the building where all the items were stored, it is massive, there were empty cases that these boxes came out of on the floor. If everything was jobbed, then it took years to do. Unfortunately myself and a few other buyers who I will not mention by name, if they care to respond they can do so, cannot stake our reputations on possibly altered material. I will only speak for myself but a few of us have reached agreement to return what we bought with the Auction House.
That being said, Ive also had some people tell me the stuff is good. I cant say as now Im confused. Im waiting on one box to arrive today from a very nice gentleman in NY who bought it and it all goes back, even the sets I won.

did you try opening a box you are familiar with to see if the gum, collation, conditions are all in line? while steve is pretty much the go to, nobody is perfect. i'm thinking if i was pretty sure, regardless of someone else's opinion, i'd have to bite the bullet and find out for myself.

Mickey71 · May 7, 2021 8:20AM

@80sOPC said:
I think Steve is the man, but he gets beat. He auth'd a whole slew of high end cello's with stars on front.

For sure; but it sounds like a bunch of this stuff is really bad. In all honesty I was hyping Steve etc. because he is darn near worshiped on these boards from everything I've ever read. I don't do unopened stuff and should stop commenting on this thread. Good luck to all involved.

grote15 · May 7, 2021 8:23AM

From what I've heard there was absolutely no question these boxes were no good.

JakeR2234 · May 7, 2021 8:32AM

@grote15 said:
From what I've heard there was absolutely no question these boxes were no good.

Same here- there was no doubt from what I heard- "reservations" is going out on a long limb.

blurryface · May 7, 2021 8:36AM

@Mickey71 said:
Unless we're all ready to say Steve is not the man anymore.......If the "Hitman" said no....then it's no.

ehh. and again, i love steve. but nobody bats a thousand. he’s as close to it as possible.

but you also have to understand steve’s reputation IS his business. if there is even a sniff that something isnt right, he’s gonna reject it. that doesnt necessarily make the entire batch of something bonk.

has anybody got any confirmation about the original owner? people are pretty hush hush when it comes to their finds. i know the guy who supposedly found this a while back never divulges a thing. not just from this, but from anything bc usually those contacts lead to buddy collectors, ie more finds.

jfkheat · May 7, 2021 8:36AM

Just the fact that Steve wasn't allowed to look at or bid on anything says pretty much all I need to know.

cpamike · May 7, 2021 8:39AM

@grote15 said:
From what I've heard there was absolutely no question these boxes were no good.

That is exactly what I heard as well. They were “garbage” is the exact word used.

As many of you may recall, a long time member of this group always said...”All that glitters is not gold”.

handyman · May 7, 2021 8:41AM

What about the 1978 OPC hockey. How confident in that one are you??

blurryface · May 7, 2021 8:44AM

@jfkheat said:
Just the fact that Steve wasn't allowed to look at or bid on anything says pretty much all I need to know.

what are the details surrounding that? was this before the initial run? and was steve gonna go up there prior to the first round?

or are we talking they wouldnt let him see stuff AFTER several reports that steve rejected stuff previously purchased?

two totally different scenarios. if its the first, then agreed. if its the second part, then i can see why they would say that.

im not defending anyone, just playing devils advocates and thinking out all the different scenarios that could have taken place.

we still havent gotten back to why gaspipe would still put them back up if steve said no, he didnt open any to gather his own conclusion or feel comfortable about the deal in the first place.

blurryface · May 7, 2021 8:47AM

@grote15 said:
From what I've heard there was absolutely no question these boxes were no good.

@JakeR2234 said:

@grote15 said:
From what I've heard there was absolutely no question these boxes were no good.

Same here- there was no doubt from what I heard- "reservations" is going out on a long limb.

these posts came in while i was typing up mine. enough said for me. grote, his knowledge & contacts are pretty much scripture for me.

and twisting words into “reservations” is pretty telling.

gaspipe26 · May 7, 2021 8:54AM

From what you read a lot of members pass judgment without full knowledge. The reason I’m sending it back is because Steve feels the boxes have been tampered with. As for why BBCE was not allowed to bid, I’ve heard both sides of the story. They are quite different. Makes no matter because after today the items I have will be returned.
Don’t think these won’t show up elsewhere though.

blurryface · May 7, 2021 8:59AM

@gaspipe26 said:
From what you read a lot of members pass judgment without full knowledge. The reason I’m sending it back is because Steve feels the boxes have been tampered with. As for why BBCE was not allowed to bid, I’ve heard both sides of the story. They are quite different. Makes no matter because after today the items I have will be returned.
Don’t think these won’t show up elsewhere though.

cmon now. “reservations” and now “tampered with” are two totally different things. so yes, i am passing judgement here...ya shoulda came out and adamantly said what really occurred. and that was that he felt they were fake as [expletive delete].

i dont even really know ya, but i do believe in innocent until proven guilty. i was trying to give you and everyone involved the benefit of the doubt bc i agree, we dont know all the facts. but massaging and sugar coating the only important details about tampering is not a good look.

grote15 · May 7, 2021 9:06AM

Steve was denied access prior to the auction to view the lots and then when he requested a bidder ID, that request was also denied.

gaspipe26 · May 7, 2021 9:07AM

You can say whatever you like, I’ve stated everything that happened and that it’s all going back. You have no idea, you have not seen any of it and yes those are the two words Steve used, reservations and tampered whether you like it or not. You can have your opinion buts it’s like the old adage.

blurryface · May 7, 2021 9:10AM

@gaspipe26 said:
buts it’s like the old adage.

finally. something thats actually factual.

tampered was not in your original post, period.

fight me.

handyman · May 7, 2021 9:11AM

Are you returning the Fun bag that sold as well?

rcmb3220 · May 7, 2021 9:13AM

@gaspipe26 said:
From what you read a lot of members pass judgment without full knowledge. The reason I’m sending it back is because Steve feels the boxes have been tampered with. As for why BBCE was not allowed to bid, I’ve heard both sides of the story. They are quite different. Makes no matter because after today the items I have will be returned.
Don’t think these won’t show up elsewhere though.

What’s the other side of the story? It certainly might cast doubt on the claim that Steve wasn’t allowed to view the items.

blurryface · May 7, 2021 9:26AM

no wonder why you had reservations about opening a box. its because you were told they were tampered with. 🥁

thank you, thank you. and dont forget to tip your waitresses.

Mickey71 · May 7, 2021 9:38AM

This reminds me of the John Rocker interview where he could has stopped talking after a minute and just kept on going. Digging the hole deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper.
He's returning the boxes because Steve said they were bad-good point and completely valid. But what about selling the boxes or having them for sale?? Steve had already said they were bad. You said you were on the airplane and in his office in an hour or something like that.

ReggieCleveland · May 7, 2021 9:52AM

@80sOPC said:
I think Steve is the man, but he gets beat. He auth'd a whole slew of high end cello's with stars on front.

There's a huge difference between cellos from a decade ago and wax today. There's a huge difference in potential certainty between cellos and wax period.

@gaspipe26
Unfortunately myself and a few other buyers who I will not mention by name, if they care to respond they can do >so, cannot stake our reputations on possibly altered material. I will only speak for myself but a few of us have >reached agreement to return what we bought with the Auction House.
That being said, Ive also had some people tell me the stuff is good.

If you can't stake your reputation on material that is even possibly altered, and you were in Steve's office an hour after getting the boxes, and Steve told you they were tampered with, why did you list them for sale on eBay and even sell some of them?

Arthur

nam812 · May 7, 2021 10:01AM

@ReggieCleveland said:
.........you were in Steve's office an hour after getting the boxes, and Steve told you they were tampered with, why did you list them for sale on eBay and even sell some of them?.........

gaspipe26 · May 7, 2021 10:04AM

An hour after I landed I was in Steve’s store, not an hour after I picked them up.

nam812 · May 7, 2021 10:20AM

I am of the opinion that the only reason he grew a conscience and took down the eBay listings was that he found out that the auction house was going to make him whole. Had that not happened I have no doubt he would have not pulled his eBay listings down and kept trying to make unsuspecting buyers pay for his inability to detect resealed garbage.

Did anyone here attend this auction in Delaware? Mostly unopened

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