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1958 Topps Football Cello Rip - Jim Brown!!

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    GoldenageGoldenage Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can't believe I'm still excited about this after a day or two. Always checking this thread for updates.
    Please don't be shy. Keep us updated as you wish. Or you can take your experience private if you want.
    Again, it's just real nice seeing someone have some good fortune come his way.
    I personally hope you get a PSA 9, or even a PSA 10.

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    tkerstingtkersting Posts: 136 ✭✭✭

    @Goldenage said:
    Can't believe I'm still excited about this after a day or two. Always checking this thread for updates.
    Please don't be shy. Keep us updated as you wish. Or you can take your experience private if you want.
    Again, it's just real nice seeing someone have some good fortune come his way.
    I personally hope you get a PSA 9, or even a PSA 10.

    I’m in the same boat. Would love to “ride along” as this continues to play out. Very exciting for sure.

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    soxaddictsoxaddict Posts: 256 ✭✭✭

    Absolute Blazer! Congrats man and thanks for sharing!

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    balco758balco758 Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021 5:26AM

    Someone needs to get word to Jimmy about this! Love to hear his reaction.

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    1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First thing Jim Brown did with @UFFDAH ’s cards?

    Make room...

    😉

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

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    mrmoparmrmopar Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭✭

    While watching the video, I was afraid a little bit of spit was going to end up on the card.

    I collect Steve Garvey, Dodgers and signed cards. Collector since 1978.
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    daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So, stupid question, since you're having Heritage grade it does that mean you're selling the card? That makes me kind of sad.

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    UFFDAHUFFDAH Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Believe me I'm excited!! It's practically all I think about.> @daltex said:

    So, stupid question, since you're having Heritage grade it does that mean you're selling the card? That makes me kind of sad.

    It's kinda up in the air. Just need to see what it grades. One step at a time.

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    secretstashsecretstash Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭✭

    @UFFDAH said:
    Believe me I'm excited!! It's practically all I think about.> @daltex said:

    So, stupid question, since you're having Heritage grade it does that mean you're selling the card? That makes me kind of sad.

    It's kinda up in the air. Just need to see what it grades. One step at a time.

    How did you convince Heritage to foot the bill on grading it for you with the end result not being them selling it?

    Unless you expect to be paying them for handling it?

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    daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I mean I've been a lurker, then a member here for about eight years, and nothing is close to this as the most exciting thing I've seen come out of a pack!

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    1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @secretstash said:

    @UFFDAH said:
    Believe me I'm excited!! It's practically all I think about.> @daltex said:

    So, stupid question, since you're having Heritage grade it does that mean you're selling the card? That makes me kind of sad.

    It's kinda up in the air. Just need to see what it grades. One step at a time.

    How did you convince Heritage to foot the bill on grading it for you with the end result not being them selling it?

    Unless you expect to be paying them for handling it?

    Exceptions are made for exceptional cards.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

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    GoldenageGoldenage Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @secretstash said:

    @UFFDAH said:
    Believe me I'm excited!! It's practically all I think about.> @daltex said:

    So, stupid question, since you're having Heritage grade it does that mean you're selling the card? That makes me kind of sad.

    It's kinda up in the air. Just need to see what it grades. One step at a time.

    How did you convince Heritage to foot the bill on grading it for you with the end result not being them selling it?

    Unless you expect to be paying them for handling it?

    I'm not uffdah, but part of that decision could be that he is thinking about selling it if it comes back a PSA 9, and that way heritage can send it in, get it back, and keep it with them until the next auction. Avoids a lot of the future mailing hassle with a card that has the potential to be six figures. So my guess is that uffdah feels it has a great shot at a 9 and intends to sell. But if it comes back as a 10, which is silly even to bring up, but he could basically buy heritage out with that grade.

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    balco758balco758 Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021 10:34AM

    I don’t that card has the potential to be 6 figures. I think it’s well over $100k raw.

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    sjjs28sjjs28 Posts: 445 ✭✭✭✭

    When do you expect the grade to "pop"

    Steve Saldutti
    sjjs28@comcast.net
    Collector of 1964 Topps Stand Ups, 1965 Embossed, 1968 Topps Game and 1969 Topps Decals
    Registered Sets: 1964 Stand Ups, 1965 Embossed, 1968 Topps Game, 1969 Topps Decals
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    JBrulesJBrules Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @secretstash said:

    @UFFDAH said:
    Believe me I'm excited!! It's practically all I think about.> @daltex said:

    So, stupid question, since you're having Heritage grade it does that mean you're selling the card? That makes me kind of sad.

    It's kinda up in the air. Just need to see what it grades. One step at a time.

    How did you convince Heritage to foot the bill on grading it for you with the end result not being them selling it?

    Unless you expect to be paying them for handling it?

    When you have done business with Heritage in the recent past it only makes sense. Chris has an amazing collection and it this is just another incredible addition to add to it. A great card regardless of the grade. I am looking forward to seeing what the grade comes back. Hoping Chris lands a 9.

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    VagabondVagabond Posts: 551 ✭✭✭✭

    That card has got to be an 8.5 or even a 9. Amazing. Crazy return either way. Especially after spending $4,300 on the pack and pulling the vest card in the set with killer corners and centering. Unbelievable the stuff that's still out there.

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    UFFDAHUFFDAH Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Messaged with Chris Ivy yesterday. Heritage is up to their eyeballs finalizing their Spring Catalog. He hopes to send the card to PSA soon.

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    mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 1,751 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chris...

    Thanks for the update!

    mint_only_pls
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    1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭✭

    @UFFDAH said:
    Here's the video my wife took!!

    https://youtu.be/1X7Gdsl7coM

    Fantastic! Great to see so many people genuinely happy for you...the world needs more of that. Awesome. Congrats!

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    GoldenageGoldenage Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on this sheet, can anyone explain why the Brown is usually in the pack with the Giants team card ?

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    azvikeazvike Posts: 356 ✭✭✭

    Not sure about the hypotenuse, but Occam's Razor must be considered as well....

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    secretstashsecretstash Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭✭

    @Goldenage said:
    Based on this sheet, can anyone explain why the Brown is usually in the pack with the Giants team card ?

    GL...There are at least 4 sequences based on the Browns that I have seen pulled, BUT the biggest problem with banking on sequence in 1958 topps is that it is full of doubling--but the sequence basically skips between 2 sequences every other card from what I can tell and may not run the who pack every time. The OP took a pretty decent size risk because it could have ran 4 different ways, although Brown would have been repeated in one of them with Unitas.. Unitas also is followed by Brown immediately afterwards in that particular one, but it would be extremely rare that you would find Unitas on the front for under a mortgage anyway at this point to go for it so the Giants team is the next best risk. If you watch enough of these 58 cello breaks, you will see that they are filled with up and down doubles in half of the sequences...they are just waiting for someone to pull that Jim Brown & Johnny Unitas double up one day "to trade with their friends". :)

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    CakesCakes Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have brought this up before and sorry for the poor taste bu> @secretstash said:

    @Goldenage said:
    Based on this sheet, can anyone explain why the Brown is usually in the pack with the Giants team card ?

    GL...There are at least 4 sequences based on the Browns that I have seen pulled, BUT the biggest problem with banking on sequence in 1958 topps is that it is full of doubling--but the sequence basically skips between 2 sequences every other card from what I can tell and may not run the who pack every time. The OP took a pretty decent size risk because it could have ran 4 different ways, although Brown would have been repeated in one of them with Unitas.. Unitas also is followed by Brown immediately afterwards in that particular one, but it would be extremely rare that you would find Unitas on the front for under a mortgage anyway at this point to go for it so the Giants team is the next best risk. If you watch enough of these 58 cello breaks, you will see that they are filled with up and down doubles in half of the sequences...they are just waiting for someone to pull that Jim Brown & Johnny Unitas double up one day "to trade with their friends". :)

    SS thank you for the info, it is very interesting!

    So was it basically a 1 in 4 chance of hitting?

    I hope it gets graded a PSA 9 and he puts either it or his PSA 8.5 up for auction. I am actively praying for the Brown rookie cards to continue to rise in value. I hope to sell my nice PSA 7 example in the next year or two to pay for my down payment on a new Hellcat!

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
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    balco758balco758 Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2021 5:11AM

    Anyone catch Jimmy B on the ESPN Mets telecast? He is losing his speech a bit but remains some insightful and seems funnier than in the past. Was a nice touch on Jackie R day.

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    shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭✭

    Any idea when this grade might come in? We're all chomping at the bit to find out! :)

    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
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    Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,234 ✭✭✭✭

    Hand deliver it to Cohen. Have Tony Orlando grade it.

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    3stars3stars Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    should have at least been an 8.5 with that centering.

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
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    1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    An 8?

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

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    DEFPOTECDEFPOTEC Posts: 99 ✭✭✭

    Still an unbelievable card and tremendous grade, but, based on everything I’ve seen, that grade is super harsh. I sifted through the various 8s on the APR site, and this one’s objectively superior to EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of those 8s. I can maybe understand holding back from a 9 based on the few print spots and whatever else they saw under a loupe, but this card’s an 8.5 at a minimum.

    It’s very frustrating to see standards shift over time. There needs to be more consistency. I wish PSA and the others would incorporate more comparative analysis into their grading, using high-res scans of previously-graded cards as guides to provide a measure of consistency. Does anyone know if they do this at all already? If so, not enough, because that surely would’ve bumped this gem to an 8.5 at least.

    Just look at this sequence for proof. Hopefully they show in cert number order:






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    AlanAllenAlanAllen Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭

    What a beautiful card. My bet is the registration held it back. It's just a smidge offset, making the image look a little blurry. Still way better than my 8!

    No such details will spoil my plans...
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    Holy chit please don’t let this be true?

    @surfyfun said:
    Did psa’s holder dent the card??? Jeez…if that’s what I’m seeing. Are my eyes being tricked?

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    grote15grote15 Posts: 29,535 ✭✭✭✭✭

    An 8 is still nothing to sneeze at, still an incredible card!



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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    rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3stars said:
    should have at least been an 8.5 with that centering.

    Agree. I had to respond to the Twitter post. I doubt it gets addressed that the grading of key cards has definitely tightened

    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
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    shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭✭

    I hope the OP hangs onto this beauty. If he sells it, it may very well wind up re-holdered with a higher grade.

    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
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    fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think PSA has actually tightened standards, literally have been hearing that same song and dance for 20 years now. Star cards have always been graded on a slightly tougher scale, that has been true since the beginning with PSA.

    As I originally posted, the card looked like an 8 to me with a chance at an 8.5 since the centering was so nice. I agree with shagrotn77 that the card could bump in the future to an 8.5 (though if it has a dent on the surface that seems unlikely).

    Still an incredibly card and with an 8 grade much easier decision to keep it in the PC, IMO.

    Robb

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    FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2021 8:25PM

    If this were my card and I started a thread on the forum, I would want to finish the story myself.

    I hope UFFDAH agreed to have Joe post his card, because if not, I don’t think it’s cool to steal his thunder, especially since the thread is known and referenced in the post from Joe.

    Sorry about the grade. 8.5 or higher all day long. Hopefully the card isn’t damaged by the holder, but most likely it’s an optical illusion.

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    MikeLeamerMikeLeamer Posts: 236 ✭✭

    Best. Video. Ever.

    Think. Thank. Thunk.

    My eBay Listings
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    RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭

    Crack and resubmit!

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    mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 1,751 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlanAllen said:
    What a beautiful card. My bet is the registration held it back. It's just a smidge offset, making the image look a little blurry. Still way better than my 8!

    Agree. If a reason has to be given for the lower than expected grade, it would be the registration. This card is notoriously blurry (registration issue) and Chris' beautiful copy appears to be a little off on the focus more than usual. However,
    considering the centering and corners, I think it still deserves an 8.5.

    mint_only_pls
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    mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 1,751 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The series of 8s above makes a strong argument that it doesn't belong in this class (PSA-8).

    mint_only_pls
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    jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭✭

    That was beyond awesome.
    Since you knew Brown was in the pack....what would just the pack be worth?

    Show the PSA grade when u can.

    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
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    1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jay0791 said:
    That was beyond awesome.
    Since you knew Brown was in the pack....what would just the pack be worth?

    Show the PSA grade when u can.

    PSA 8

    But you’ll see it if you keep reading...

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

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    JakeR2234JakeR2234 Posts: 236 ✭✭✭

    I'm still at a loss for words... must have been some serious flaws under a microscope to not give an 8.5

    Still one of the most amazing cards in the hobby with the video of the pull!

    PC Walter Payton - Bear Down!

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    balco758balco758 Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats UFFDAH.

    A case of the experience trumping the financial value or the “assessment” (grade) others give it. This rip is a story that will be with you forever. Can’t buy those sort of stories.

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    CakesCakes Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fergie23 said:
    I don't think PSA has actually tightened standards, literally have been hearing that same song and dance for 20 years now. Star cards have always been graded on a slightly tougher scale, that has been true since the beginning with PSA.

    As I originally posted, the card looked like an 8 to me with a chance at an 8.5 since the centering was so nice. I agree with shagrotn77 that the card could bump in the future to an 8.5 (though if it has a dent on the surface that seems unlikely).

    Still an incredibly card and with an 8 grade much easier decision to keep it in the PC, IMO.

    Robb

    I respectfully disagree. This isn't about the last 20 years, this is about the last year. All signs point the grading standards have become stricter.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
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