@Kliao said:
So if the file mark bothered you will the acid test mark bother you on this one?
I actually thought the same thing the moment I saw it, but, that’s actually not from acid, that occurred when it was being poured, probably slag from the crucible...
This one is completely original and I love it! 👍
If it were mine, I'd dip it to see if I could get rid of that stain. Very neat bar in any event.
I washed it in soap and water when I got home. The spot is almost gone just from that. It actually looks like I dipped it. Apparently it was mostly dirt. 👍
The seller didn't say it was silver. I was taking a gamble because he only had a pic of the obverse and reverse and wasn't 100% sure it was silver. I knew that there was bronze version and pictures can be modified but thought for $20 I would just keep it on my desk if it wasn't silver. Now it just sits in the safe. Maybe I will buy the bronze version as well.
The issuer was a Maine numismatist, Toivo Johnson (1913-1973). In 1961 he developed the idea to issue a series of medals to honor coin engravers. His idea was to reproduce the artist's most popular design on one side and a tribute to the artist on the other.
He first approached William Louth, president of Medallic Art Company. He came to New York and told Bill of his plan. He wanted Medallic Art to strike the medals. Bill liked the idea of honoring coin designers, but not reproducing the coin design. This was still the era when exact coin images were verboten -- illegal -- and he rejected that concept.
He suggested to Toivo to have the artist's portrait on one side and the other a tribute to the artists' numismatic creations. He could have a top artist create the models. Toivo was firm in his mind, that was not what he wanted. The two exchanged words. Toivo left with the rejection ringing in his ears. He would show that Bill Louth what he wanted. So he went to Medallic Art's competitor, Metal Arts in Rochester, New York.
Here they would do whatever Toivo wanted, and would change each coin design slightly to get around the illegality of reproducing an exact coin design. The designs were not modeled but machine engraved where dies are cut by a tracer controlled pantograph operated by a factory artist. That "artist" was Robert Stephen Schabel (1909-1995).
Tracer controlled engraving starts with an oversize drawing, an outline of the design. The machine operator rides a stylus across that outline, following each line while a rotating cutting tool cuts that line into the surface of the die. Then he goes back and by hand and eye determines how deep the relief should be for each element of the design. The goal is to create the cavities of relief in a die -- in negative -- to strike the medal.
Such engraving does not allow for error or experimentation. It cuts a die at one time and that's it! This in contrast to a "modeled" design in which the artist works in clay and can experiment, changing and improving a relief element as many times until satisfied with the final result, or go back and start all over. In the struck piece a tracer-controlled design is somewhat flat and lifeless. On the other hand a modeled design is more realistic, lifelike. More artistic effort is usually put into a modeled design.
To his credit, Schabel's designs were exceptional, perhaps the best of his career. He produced the dies for six medals for Toivo's Coin Designer Medal Series. In addition to the Gobrecht medal that Len mentions in is article, the series honored Victor David Brenner, Charles Barber and Augustus Saint-Gaudens issued in 1962, plus ancient coin engraver Evanetos, James B. Longacre, and that Christian Gobrecht issued in 1963.
Years later Toivo Johnson went back to Metal Arts company and had two more medals made, here again with dies cut by Schabel, the American Freedom Medal and the Maine Sesquicentennial Medal. Both of these were issued in 1970.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
Here’s a neat piece. Gold plated Sterling silver white Guilloché enamel capped cut crystal salt and pepper shakers by the Norwegian designer Hroar Prydz. The sterling caps actually weigh over 8 grams.
I was able to pick this up for a buck at an estate sale a year or so ago. The enamel work is really nice with no chips. These were full with salt and pepper when I bought them and you can see the black stuff on one of the caps from the salt eating away at it. The under side was actually caked in the stuff and I was able to scrap most of it off with a tooth pick.
Young Numismatist/collector 75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting! instagram.com/klnumismatics
I picked up a roll of 1963 proof Franklins last week for 20x face. I got home and dumped them out for a quick photo and a closer look and whaddaya know? There's a frosty one in there...
.
I miss acquiring bullion, but alas me thinks silver is a little high and it takes months not weeks for me to be able to buy gold... I did get this last week, not really bullion, but not really a collector coin as it’s a common date and grade...another example of my constant dilemma of am I a collector or a stacker.
@BestestDad @Jinx86
So those are cast silver pieces and not carvings? Nice, but I like the original works...These would be - to me - like art bars, attractive, but not 'coins'. Cheers, RickO
@ricko said: @BestestDad @Jinx86
So those are cast silver pieces and not carvings? Nice, but I like the original works...These would be - to me - like art bars, attractive, but not 'coins'. Cheers, RickO
They are stamped at high pressure and then I believe they are acid etched and antiqued. Very well made, definitely just fancy bullion. Makes the stack more fun the look at.
@LukeMarshall said: @Jinx86 I love the high purity jewelry, @Weiss I remember you said your guy makes these in 24k gold, do you know if he works in .999 silver as well?
Yep, they just started working in .999 silver. But the mark-up is much higher on silver. I want to say I paid 15% or 20% above the value of the gold for my baht chain and my wife's 2-ounce bangle.
I just asked them how much they'd charge for a similar necklace in .999 silver. They said it would be nearly 400% of the cost of the silver. Now they do everything by hand and they deserve to make some money. But I was expecting maybe 2 or 2.5x the value of the silver, not 4+ times.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
Thanks @Weiss
That seems to be in line with what I’m seeing out there from the different handmade .999 Ag stuff. I’ve enquired with a couple different jewelers that can make a 1 kilo curb link but they are both at 4 to 5 hundred percent. I love kilos but not that much...
Comments
sold?
I washed it in soap and water when I got home. The spot is almost gone just from that. It actually looks like I dipped it. Apparently it was mostly dirt. 👍
I love the bar!
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I bought a few coins
I got this yesterday, traded 10oz generic bar even for it
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Wow, how'd you do that?
He who knows he has enough is rich.
I work at a B&M and the owner is very good to me! 👍
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Today’s find! After the trade I did, I’m in this at under $24/oz!
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Nice pictures gentlemen. Enjoyed the slow journey through this thread.
Welcome to the forums.
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Today’s pick up:
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Nice! I really have to get myself a poured silver bar again.
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
A great deal. Only one to bid.
A great deal indeed!!
I just picked up the exact same round for melt, and I thought I was doing good...
You Suck!
(Old forum reference)
It's all about what the people want...
The seller didn't say it was silver. I was taking a gamble because he only had a pic of the obverse and reverse and wasn't 100% sure it was silver. I knew that there was bronze version and pictures can be modified but thought for $20 I would just keep it on my desk if it wasn't silver. Now it just sits in the safe. Maybe I will buy the bronze version as well.
@BestestDad Nice score! How much does it weigh?
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
@BestestDad.... Wow...nice pick up.....both in beauty and price....Cheers, RickO
Oh yeah, in case you were wondering they’re 7+ Troy oz of .999 silver In that medal.
A gamble that paid off quite well 👍
It's all about what the people want...
Wow! 6+ OZT of free pure silver! Great score.
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Yes I believed it weighs like 7.46 oz. I had it tested at my local coin shop to make sure that it was silver. I figured either way i had a NICE MEDAL
Edited to add: These are my medals, but the text is from e-sylum: https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v13n27a15.html
The issuer was a Maine numismatist, Toivo Johnson (1913-1973). In 1961 he developed the idea to issue a series of medals to honor coin engravers. His idea was to reproduce the artist's most popular design on one side and a tribute to the artist on the other.
He first approached William Louth, president of Medallic Art Company. He came to New York and told Bill of his plan. He wanted Medallic Art to strike the medals. Bill liked the idea of honoring coin designers, but not reproducing the coin design. This was still the era when exact coin images were verboten -- illegal -- and he rejected that concept.
He suggested to Toivo to have the artist's portrait on one side and the other a tribute to the artists' numismatic creations. He could have a top artist create the models. Toivo was firm in his mind, that was not what he wanted. The two exchanged words. Toivo left with the rejection ringing in his ears. He would show that Bill Louth what he wanted. So he went to Medallic Art's competitor, Metal Arts in Rochester, New York.
Here they would do whatever Toivo wanted, and would change each coin design slightly to get around the illegality of reproducing an exact coin design. The designs were not modeled but machine engraved where dies are cut by a tracer controlled pantograph operated by a factory artist. That "artist" was Robert Stephen Schabel (1909-1995).
Tracer controlled engraving starts with an oversize drawing, an outline of the design. The machine operator rides a stylus across that outline, following each line while a rotating cutting tool cuts that line into the surface of the die. Then he goes back and by hand and eye determines how deep the relief should be for each element of the design. The goal is to create the cavities of relief in a die -- in negative -- to strike the medal.
Such engraving does not allow for error or experimentation. It cuts a die at one time and that's it! This in contrast to a "modeled" design in which the artist works in clay and can experiment, changing and improving a relief element as many times until satisfied with the final result, or go back and start all over. In the struck piece a tracer-controlled design is somewhat flat and lifeless. On the other hand a modeled design is more realistic, lifelike. More artistic effort is usually put into a modeled design.
To his credit, Schabel's designs were exceptional, perhaps the best of his career. He produced the dies for six medals for Toivo's Coin Designer Medal Series. In addition to the Gobrecht medal that Len mentions in is article, the series honored Victor David Brenner, Charles Barber and Augustus Saint-Gaudens issued in 1962, plus ancient coin engraver Evanetos, James B. Longacre, and that Christian Gobrecht issued in 1963.
Years later Toivo Johnson went back to Metal Arts company and had two more medals made, here again with dies cut by Schabel, the American Freedom Medal and the Maine Sesquicentennial Medal. Both of these were issued in 1970.
--Severian the Lame
Beautiful medals!
I knew it would happen.
Awesome score!
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Some French gold courtesy of our BST forum.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Here’s a neat piece. Gold plated Sterling silver white Guilloché enamel capped cut crystal salt and pepper shakers by the Norwegian designer Hroar Prydz. The sterling caps actually weigh over 8 grams.
I was able to pick this up for a buck at an estate sale a year or so ago. The enamel work is really nice with no chips. These were full with salt and pepper when I bought them and you can see the black stuff on one of the caps from the salt eating away at it. The under side was actually caked in the stuff and I was able to scrap most of it off with a tooth pick.
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
I picked up a roll of 1963 proof Franklins last week for 20x face. I got home and dumped them out for a quick photo and a closer look and whaddaya know? There's a frosty one in there...
.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
Nice Franklins!
My YouTube Channel
This is it for this week.. Slowly chipping away at my set of $2.50 Indians:
Stacking....and building....and then they went poof!
I miss acquiring bullion, but alas me thinks silver is a little high and it takes months not weeks for me to be able to buy gold... I did get this last week, not really bullion, but not really a collector coin as it’s a common date and grade...another example of my constant dilemma of am I a collector or a stacker.
Nice additions this week!
My YouTube Channel
Monday NEWP
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Take a look at the massive pile of gold in this video.
https://youtu.be/dpiWG5uG2t4
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Slowly but surely
I don’t care for Buffalo Nickels so much but I do like the HOBO Nickels. So I picked this up
@BestestDad
Now you'll have to find a 5ozt version. I picked one up years ago and have it tucked away somewhere.
@BestestDad
@Jinx86
So those are cast silver pieces and not carvings? Nice, but I like the original works...These would be - to me - like art bars, attractive, but not 'coins'. Cheers, RickO
They are stamped at high pressure and then I believe they are acid etched and antiqued. Very well made, definitely just fancy bullion. Makes the stack more fun the look at.
I got this over a week ago, it has it’s own thread, but I’ll add it here:
instantly became one of my favorite bars!
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Saved from the melting pot I assume?
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
This was gonna get melted. Necklace is 1.4ozt of 999. I added the charm.
Nice chain. Looks similar to the one @Weiss had posted a while ago.
Young Numismatist/collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Cool chain!
My YouTube Channel
Yep. Typical baht chain of southeast Asia.
Mine is very similar (but 5 troy ounces):
--Severian the Lame
@Jinx86 I love the high purity jewelry, @Weiss I remember you said your guy makes these in 24k gold, do you know if he works in .999 silver as well?
It's all about what the people want...
Yep, they just started working in .999 silver. But the mark-up is much higher on silver. I want to say I paid 15% or 20% above the value of the gold for my baht chain and my wife's 2-ounce bangle.
I just asked them how much they'd charge for a similar necklace in .999 silver. They said it would be nearly 400% of the cost of the silver. Now they do everything by hand and they deserve to make some money. But I was expecting maybe 2 or 2.5x the value of the silver, not 4+ times.
--Severian the Lame
>
Do they though? 😉
If someone can (and is willing to) do it for less, you'd think they would.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Thanks @Weiss
That seems to be in line with what I’m seeing out there from the different handmade .999 Ag stuff. I’ve enquired with a couple different jewelers that can make a 1 kilo curb link but they are both at 4 to 5 hundred percent. I love kilos but not that much...
It's all about what the people want...
Can we see the matching earrings?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
That chain is insane!
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