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1825 quarter eagle - Great Collections Auction
earlyAurum
Posts: 750 ✭✭✭✭✭
An 1825 quarter eagle was sold for $32,500 hammer last night at Great Collections. The coin is in a PCGS old holder and graded AU55 with a CAC sticker. I believe that this was a record price for the grade by far.
I was impressed at the level of activity/bidding on the item. I am also impressed with the quality of the website. I have never bid or sold on the site but it seems like a great venue.
Do others feel the same?
3
Comments
Is it possible to link to a picture? Once it's sold can you see the item?
My experience with this date and type is that most examples are fairly marked up. The situation is made worse by the fact that most of the pieces I have seen had P-L surfaces, which makes the marks look worse. The grading is based on the argument, how many marks can you have before the grade falls from MS-61 to something that grades AU?
For an AU, that was a strong price. I have handled two pieces in MS-61 holders, one from each of the major surfaces, and one had a green CAC sticker. Both were on the baggy side, and hard to photograph, I paid the same amount or a few thousand less for each piece.
This is a tough type that is hard to find PERIOD. According a survey of the literature that I have done, it is the fourth rarest U.S. type coin. Here is the list:
1796 No Stars Quarter Eagle 105 to 130
1808 Quarter Eagle 125 to 150
1796-7 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Half Dollar 220 to 325
1821-7 Capped Head Left Quarter Eagle, Large Diameter 280 to 330
Capped Bust Left, Smaller Diameter $5 Gold 1829 - 1834 285 to 370
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/501482
Yes, the auctions and images are archived.
great looking coin! i love the color of it.
For what it's worth, I thought the coin was easily a 58 (Shot 61) by today's grading standards. It was REALLY nice for an 1825. It realized much more than I thought it would bring, but whoever bought it got a great coin!
I wonder who could be smart enough to pay that price?????? In the end, the price paid was "market" for the quality
With a gold sticker the price makes sense. With a green sticker though?
JA must have deemed it lightly circulated.
The buyer paid $36,562.50. Doesn't the buyers' fee count or is that now a "throw away?"
If the photo is accurate, that is strong money, because the obverse shows an obvious rub in fields on both sides of Ms. Liberty. I can't see this coin making it into an MS holder.
Here is the "ugly shot" my piece.
And here is the "glamor shot" taken at an angle. This view is not that far off when you see the coin in person.
I paid quite a bit less for this from a big dealer at a major show.
"Eye appeal" and this type seldom meet. This design was engraver Robert Scot's last creation. It was based on John Reich's last design for the half eagle. The die relief was quite low.
Nice!
You have some great coins, Bill. Thanks for sharing.
Two people got carried away. $32,000 for that coin is steep.
Latin American Collection
OGH CAC Fat Head Fever
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I believe I know the provenance of this coin. I have a call into the person who had this one I think. if so, I missed an opportunity to buy it by a few min, and a lot less than it sold for last night.
These types of posts are uncalled for! I do not know either man other than reading their posts on this forum. For specialist to attack a poster for their opinion does not belong on these boards! I do not know if specialist realizes what a troll he sounds like. If you have a different opinion post it. Absolutely no need to attack another poster and their coins because they do not fit your criteria (PCGS/CAC). Have you seen Bills coin in hand! Never grade from a photo!!!!!!!!
Give it a rest.
I am sick of people attacking coins they have not seen. No real dealer would do that. That was grossly misleading in my opinion. This guy has a habit of knocking anything non CAC or anything that is not his. He is not a teacher.
You are right-should not have attacked, should have written my opinion in bold ink.
My opinion is the guy has no clue and is wrong about the coin****. Did any one read what CNN (who saw the coin) said? Last I knew CNN has only handled millions of dollars worth of similar coins. And why is there a pic of a cleaned NGC coin posted?
Last, as far as the price paid, people need to understand how rare a GEM original piece is. Add the CAC bean. Even if it is not an upgrade, add 10-20% to the value just for those 2 items.
Time for my morning java....
The salient point "****NEVER**** grade via an image". Almost every one on this forum ignores this.
OGH and green bean premium.......
It's an online coin forum. That's what people are supposed to do.
JA and PCGS saw the coin in-hand and both said it was circulated. The images say circulated. What more do you want?
Why have this forum? Since we are all not in the same room what would you have us do. Imagine the coin and discuss that. Only people who have seen the coin in person are allowed to post.
This is a discussion forum and without photos there is nothing to discuss. If you are purchasing it is always best to see a coin in hand. Most people are unable to do that so they use photos to decide if they want to purchase a coin. Not ideal but it is what it is. You must be realistic with your ****NEVER****.
You seem to be able to see it on his coins! You must be an all knowing being.
I am not debating you on your experience. But you are a hypocrite in your posts. You tell us not to grade on pictures and then do it yourself. Do you see the irony!
CNN has an opinion and it may be correct or it may not. PCGS also saw it in hand and gave it a grade. CAC could have given it a gold bean if it is so under graded.
The problem is not with the condition of the coin. It is with you carrying out some type of vendetta on these boards. I am better than him, my experience is far superior. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. The point is this is not about you it is about the coins.
Grow up!
Popcorn time... though it will be short.... Cheers, RickO
I am the last person to grade via images. I go to shows and auctions when i can and see what I buy or I use a dealer. An image gives me nothing more then idea if I will consider a coin.
I can't believe this statement: CNN has an opinion and it may be correct or it may not. PCGS also saw it in hand and gave it a grade. CAC could have given it a gold bean if it is so under graded.
Do you know who CNN is? Really? He has handled many of the great early gold pieces that exist. So you want me to take a Bill Jones word vs his? Again, CNN SAW the coin.
PCGS saw the coin in hand nearly 20 years ago! CAC tries NOT to give out gold stickers. Or, maybe there was a small patch of something JA did not like that just needed to be dipped off? You won't see that in a picture.
Just debating now, not ripping anyone. Prove me wrong. I assure you, it was not two nuts bidding. That coin sold for that price because it was worthy of it.
CNN knows his stuff. If he graded it 58/61 in hand then take that to the bank
I do find it disingenuous to continually compare price purchased ngc graded coins to fresh Pcgs cac coins. But the sheeple do drink it up...
those are a plus...but the coin itself commands a premium due to the eye appeal. sure, it's circulated...but that look drips original to me as opposed to those that look "conserved" over the years.
All of your posts about Bills coins are negative. If you have not seen them in hand you are grading from photos. Period!
I do not want you to take anyone's word on a coin. That is not the point I am trying to make. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I think it is wrong for you to attack someone based on their opinion. We are all big boys and girls here we can form our own opinions.
As far as CNN I have no problem with his opinion. I think it is a lovely coin. I am sure he is one of the best in the business.
I am not trying to prove you wrong on your opinion. You may be 100% correct.
As far as we know Bill loves the coin. All he said is that it was strong money for the coin and he does not believe it could get into a MS holder. He may be 100% correct as well. Even CNN said he believes it to be 58 with a shot at MS. All valid opinions.
Again this is not about the coin it is about you attacking a poster for their opinion. In my opinion you owe Bill an apology regardless of what anyone thinks about the coin.
In response to OP's question about GC...it's recently become my favorite venue to buy at. Very happy with all aspects of my GC experience so far.
ironman,. I do not buy via image period. I look to see if I I should even look at it in person.
Yeah, back to the OP's question: I love buying from GC too-the prices they get overall are cheap-much cheaper then the big boys.
How dare you stay on topic!
I like GC overall, but not so much for a coin in this price range. Buying at this level sight unseen, it becomes a hassle to go through payment, pay shipping and insurance, and then possibly have to have to return it. GC limits the number of returns as well.
I think that really nice AU 55 or AU 58 coins are in general undervalued. In many cases they are more beautiful than MS 61 or MS 62 coins. Maybe thats why they sometimes bring strong money.
There seem to be quite a few nice AU coins in the next heritage sale.
I never said that the OP coin was bad and did not qualify for the grade assigned. All I said was that the total price paid was strong given the grade assigned.
As for comments about photographs, one can deduce a lot of information from a well executed photo. If that were not true the Internet coin business would be dead. Yes, you can almost always see more from a personal examination of a coin, but making a blanket statement you can learn nothing from a photo is inaccurate.
Hey, I quoted specialist, i.e. ****NEVER**** grade via an image. I absolutely agree with that and his position "I do not buy via image period". Maybe that's why my CAC sticker rate was 91.7% on a 40 piece submission. You can't buy PQ coins from images.
This is not the same coin as the one I mentioned earlier, just confirmed by the guy who sold it
jim
After viewing HA archives, I just checked the CAC pop report for the type. The percentage of coins of this type that CAC considers acceptable is miniscule. From the image, stone 58 with really nice color, a great cheek and scuffies in the field.
OTOH, it brought 61+ money.
On the other other hand, ICGFP.
@cnncoins and I have split uncountable sweet coins over the years. We've had more than a little success backing each other's action (that 1911 10c PF69 we made and sold to @Laurie stands out) as well as surprise about how well each has done when we disagreed. Proving?
I'd be curious to know what his number was if it's not proprietary information that can only be obtained with takeout sushi from the Kona Grill in Baltimore.
Based on his appraisal, I'd figure it at $26,500 all-in with the 61 shot. CAC or not, anyone who's studied this type will be thinking hard about it in a 58 holder at 28K and 33K as a 61. This is a coin most any dealer would be happy to get back from a customer, 
Fantastic coin. Although out of my league I am sure the buyer will be very pleased. Great collections did a nice job getting top money for the seller.
It's rare that you see someone contradict themselves so closely in time and space. Barely a blank line between them!
The coin sold for $35,600. That seems like really strong money for a 55. Difference in price between a 55 and 58 is minimal. Buyer would need the coin to upgrade to 61 to break even.
Not to jump in a mess, but it doesn't need to be a 61...stuff at this level is moving...so likely all he would need to do is wait a year or so to break even. I certainly don't see a hoard of these showing up.
I hope that early gold is moving up. The prices have dropped from what they were six or seven years ago. I know that because a I bought a couple big pieces back then, and prices have dropped. The market corrections have not been limited to average collectors' items.
Right now, I think the support from the bottom (on healthy coins) is stronger than the pull from the top
fresh early PCGS CAC gold is moving up strong-not NGC or cleaned coins. The stuff simply does not exist.
with every coin sold at auction the new market value emerges
No, buyer would need to sell coin for same amount paid, to break even.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Some coins without CAC stickers have been bringing high bids that I don't understand.
Geez...this coin was my perfect slider coin. ColonelJessup is spot on. I had 24-25k hammer on the coin and if it didn't grade out to resale at a profit I would have kept the coin for myself. Specialist has handled as many (or more ) great coins than I have. His comments are also spot on.
So the coin sold for better than $8,000 more than you were willing to pay as a top expert in the series. In my mind that counts as strong money! Sounds like Bill was spot on.
Many times I get outbid. Grading is only part of the equation. Figuring value is the other part. Someone valued the coin more than I did. Congrats to them!
The coin, in today's grading market, was a clear upgrade. This coin likely would have brought more in another auction, but 2-3 dealers did run it up to a reasonable level, based upon what it will likely grade in today's environment.
Yes, clearly an upgrade. However, a freshly graded AU58 or MS61 will be unlikely to eclipse the high levels paid for this coin nominally let along after auctions fees. I disagree though that the levels paid are "reasonable" if the objective is to upgrade and make money on the coin.
Latin American Collection
I fully agree with this. I own several coins of this type which are all PCGS CAC. It would be very challenging to make money off of selling this coin unless it we're to re-grade MS62 CAC. That said it's a fair price for a 61 CAC.
A heck of a coin. I love it. Good luck finding one in that grade range that looks better. Congrats to the new owner.