Going by Lance's pictures, I'd say that this piece is a very nice AU. Perhaps if it shows a fair amount of luster at various angles, it would grade AU-58.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I fully agree with this. I own several coins of this type which are all PCGS CAC. It would be very challenging to make money off of selling this coin unless it we're to re-grade MS62 CAC. That said it's a fair price for a 61 CAC.
How long have you been studying this series? You have very sophisticated salivary glands
>
I've been studying the series since 2009. I am not an expert grader by any stretch but I consider myself a strong student of the market and rely on others more for quality evaluation. I have owned 4 coins of this type with 3 in mint state all PCGS CAC.
In my opinion, a strong price was paid for this 1825 but, if you are a collector, it's noise. As a dealer, I would believe it difficult to generate an adequate return.
Much of the "friction" on this coin is simply high point envelope tarnish/toning. I have handled thousands of coins which were stored like this over the years. IMO, the coin does not have wear by today's standards. I don't care what the "standards" were 10, 20. 40, or 100 years ago. Bruce's 1870-S Seated Dollar was graded XF 75 years ago. Does that mean it is not a 62 by today's standards? Of course not! Although the TrueView of the 1825 looks a little darker than I remember it, the coin is virgin original, gorgeous, and is worth WAY more than a dipped 61 or 62 coin. Like I had said in an earlier comment, grading is only one part of the equation. VALUE is the other part, and although PCGS graded it 58, it is (rightly so) VALUED as a 61 (or better). If eye appeal, originality, etc., wasn't taken into consideration of value, every 1880-S Morgan Dollar in 65 would be worth the same. If you look at collections like the Northern Lights Toned Dollars, you easily understand this is not the case.
@specialist said:
GC is protecting it dealer customers and thus won't publish prices. Let Ian come here and dispute that. If other auction houses could do that, they probably would. Still they don't get the highest prices overall-no internet only auction does. While that one coin -the 1825 sold for zoo money, there were other coins that sold too cheap.
Bet the owner of the 1825 will go for a + now. You know how the grading steps go in the game
Based on your self-reported market presence, you seem to "get it", mostly.
Based on your recent Forum presence, you're making some rookie mistakes.
All in that paragraph above other than boldface are OT and bad manners .
What couth as might be acquired here will likely improve your ability to mask your aggression and hostility in such a way as to not so readily repel those who might otherwise benefit from your knowledge and experience.
Just sayin'
Many, both here and out-and-about, will find a rather pathetic irony in myself being the issuer of such an utterance.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@specialist said:
GC is protecting it dealer customers and thus won't publish prices. Let Ian come here and dispute that. If other auction houses could do that, they probably would.
Bet the owner of the 1825 will go for a + now. You know how the grading steps go in the game
That is not accurate at all. We publish all of our prices at www.greatcollections.com - please visit our auction archives and view our 452,272 auction records (as at 11/1/17; our archive is added to in real time). Very soon, these 452,272 records will be much easier to search (although you can now easily, it will be super easy very soon; anyone that wishes to use the new system while in demo, let me know and I'll send you the link).
Regarding the 1825 $2.5. I bet the owner the will go for a + now too, although I prefer the coin in the old green holder. The coin is superb - nothing changes that. The consignor is extremely happy with the realization (and I definitely appreciate that he had a choice where to consign and chose our firm) and I'm sure the winning the bidder is happy as well. Our goal has always been to bring buyers and sellers closer together, by offering a superior auction experience for both buyers and sellers and by offering the lowest fee structure. Our discounted 10% buyer's fee is a huge difference compared to the 20% other auction houses charge - it results in consistently higher hammer prices.
My plans for a Dodgers GC logo tomorrow is not looking good right now...it's early though.
@Elmhurst said:
i would like to own some early US gold, but it has a minimal number of quality items available, so I won't bother fighting over them. Just read the comments above...I think the Dark Side has the golden lining.
If you want to own just one piece of early gold the Capped Bust 1821-7 quarter eagle is not a great choice. The coin is genuinely rare, and most of the few surviving pieces are marked up and not that nice. The Capped Bust Right, Heraldic Eagle is the best "representative" early gold piece in my opinion. It is the most common type of early gold, and it has an iconic design that many collectors admire.
I bought this on in 1982. It is now in a PCGS AU-58 holder.
Fabulous coin. I was in high school in 82....I'm too young and too old at the same time !
I think that the coin has potentially resurfaced at Legend. I can't confirm it is the same coin but it is a beautiful PC58 CAC. They are asking $37.5k which is < $1k above the price where it sold on GC. The coin looks absolutely gorgeous. See link below.
@earlyAurum said:
I think that the coin has potentially resurfaced at Legend. I can't confirm it is the same coin but it is a beautiful PC58 CAC. They are asking $37.5k which is < $1k above the price where it sold on GC. The coin looks absolutely gorgeous. See link below.
Thanks for posting this. I reread the thread and it is very interesting given where it ended up and the sales price. I am sure when purchased there was the hope for it to be a 61. That being said, even in a 58 CAC holder, it is very original. You can't make "new" original coins. Someone who places a premium on originality may pay the price regardless of whether it is in a 58 or 61 slab.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Thanks for the update. That exquisite coin would be the star attraction at even a major ANA show; it meets all the high demand criteria; extremely rare; original surfaces; gold; popular design; probably has had a storied history; effectively and Unc. with apparently tiny whispers of friction. Would satisfy the most demanding and fussy numismatist and high end collector. Surely NGC would grade it Unc., but PCGS brings more and real experts want coins in their holders.
Bought by a collector or someone else willing to try to upgrade? Many here believe it is a 61 as did Legend according to the description. It will resurface. It's really nice. Was probably worth more in the original holder.
@specialist said:
cnn, I wish people here would listen to you.....I get it. I would be shocked if the coin is not a 58+ or MS61 soon.
I still predict the owner will make money with it
my gut says this coin is one of those in person that blows away the image
The only ones making money so far on this coin are the auction houses and the grading services...beautiful coin...I hope it finds a buyer at the upcoming Regency auction....
Comments
GC's images of the coin in the OP.
Lance.
Price Guide is 26,500, strong price for a very nice AU coin
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Going by Lance's pictures, I'd say that this piece is a very nice AU. Perhaps if it shows a fair amount of luster at various angles, it would grade AU-58.
>
I've been studying the series since 2009. I am not an expert grader by any stretch but I consider myself a strong student of the market and rely on others more for quality evaluation. I have owned 4 coins of this type with 3 in mint state all PCGS CAC.
In my opinion, a strong price was paid for this 1825 but, if you are a collector, it's noise. As a dealer, I would believe it difficult to generate an adequate return.
More accurately through the plastic. Only Phil and the graders know what it looks like raw
The 58 looks amazing - way better than the 61.
Some 58s are worth 61 money. Or more
Much of the "friction" on this coin is simply high point envelope tarnish/toning. I have handled thousands of coins which were stored like this over the years. IMO, the coin does not have wear by today's standards. I don't care what the "standards" were 10, 20. 40, or 100 years ago. Bruce's 1870-S Seated Dollar was graded XF 75 years ago. Does that mean it is not a 62 by today's standards? Of course not! Although the TrueView of the 1825 looks a little darker than I remember it, the coin is virgin original, gorgeous, and is worth WAY more than a dipped 61 or 62 coin. Like I had said in an earlier comment, grading is only one part of the equation. VALUE is the other part, and although PCGS graded it 58, it is (rightly so) VALUED as a 61 (or better). If eye appeal, originality, etc., wasn't taken into consideration of value, every 1880-S Morgan Dollar in 65 would be worth the same. If you look at collections like the Northern Lights Toned Dollars, you easily understand this is not the case.
cnn, I wish people here would listen to you.....I get it. I would be shocked if the coin is not a 58+ or MS61 soon.
I still predict the owner will make money with it
my gut says this coin is one of those in person that blows away the image
Based on your self-reported market presence, you seem to "get it", mostly.
.
Based on your recent Forum presence, you're making some rookie mistakes.
All in that paragraph above other than boldface are OT and bad manners
What couth as might be acquired here will likely improve your ability to mask your aggression and hostility in such a way as to not so readily repel those who might otherwise benefit from your knowledge and experience.
Just sayin'
Many, both here and out-and-about, will find a rather pathetic irony in myself being the issuer of such an utterance.
That is not accurate at all. We publish all of our prices at www.greatcollections.com - please visit our auction archives and view our 452,272 auction records (as at 11/1/17; our archive is added to in real time). Very soon, these 452,272 records will be much easier to search (although you can now easily, it will be super easy very soon; anyone that wishes to use the new system while in demo, let me know and I'll send you the link).
Regarding the 1825 $2.5. I bet the owner the will go for a + now too, although I prefer the coin in the old green holder. The coin is superb - nothing changes that. The consignor is extremely happy with the realization (and I definitely appreciate that he had a choice where to consign and chose our firm) and I'm sure the winning the bidder is happy as well. Our goal has always been to bring buyers and sellers closer together, by offering a superior auction experience for both buyers and sellers and by offering the lowest fee structure. Our discounted 10% buyer's fee is a huge difference compared to the 20% other auction houses charge - it results in consistently higher hammer prices.
My plans for a Dodgers GC logo tomorrow is not looking good right now...it's early though.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
oops mis- information from me on GC. I be sorry.....
Great coin.
I have always said it's almost impossible to grade consistently and accurately between the grades of au55 to ms62.
What appears one day to be an extremely high grade circulated coin (au) can appear to you another time as a low grade MS coin (61-62).
Either grade, you could probably make a case for and especially with this coin.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Fabulous coin. I was in high school in 82....I'm too young and too old at the same time !
I think that the coin has potentially resurfaced at Legend. I can't confirm it is the same coin but it is a beautiful PC58 CAC. They are asking $37.5k which is < $1k above the price where it sold on GC. The coin looks absolutely gorgeous. See link below.
http://www.legendnumismatics.com/product/2-5-1825-pcgs-au58/
Thanks for posting this. I reread the thread and it is very interesting given where it ended up and the sales price. I am sure when purchased there was the hope for it to be a 61. That being said, even in a 58 CAC holder, it is very original. You can't make "new" original coins. Someone who places a premium on originality may pay the price regardless of whether it is in a 58 or 61 slab.
A great coin!
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Love that small head type!
Gotta be the same coin. Looks really nice!
Latin American Collection
Thanks for the update. That exquisite coin would be the star attraction at even a major ANA show; it meets all the high demand criteria; extremely rare; original surfaces; gold; popular design; probably has had a storied history; effectively and Unc. with apparently tiny whispers of friction. Would satisfy the most demanding and fussy numismatist and high end collector. Surely NGC would grade it Unc., but PCGS brings more and real experts want coins in their holders.
This coin disappeared off Legends inventory today.
Bought by a collector or someone else willing to try to upgrade? Many here believe it is a 61 as did Legend according to the description. It will resurface. It's really nice. Was probably worth more in the original holder.
Beautiful coin, suberbly photographed. A gorgeous 58!
Agreed on worth more in the previous holder. I don’t think JA would Sticker it at 61.
looks like this coin is in Legend's next Regency Auction--lot 674
The only ones making money so far on this coin are the auction houses and the grading services...beautiful coin...I hope it finds a buyer at the upcoming Regency auction....
Here is the link on lot 674:
https://legendauctions.hibid.com/catalog/124966/the-regency-auction-26/?q=674