@MrEureka said:
I'm trying to undestand the rationale for the ANA doing a registry. Considering the ANA's limited resources, Isnt that a job best left to private firms? Or is this something the ANA can do better than anyone else?
The reasoning that the ANA can provide what collectors want is because the private registries are restricted by TPG brand. It sounds useful because it would support the goal of increasing membership that many have.
An ANA employee posted here one reason ANA membership is declining is that the governors thought it was enough to give signup incentives but not improve membership offerings.
Hey I've been in Michigan for 8 years now. Don't get out much because I'm a prisoner of my job. Currently I'm on a mandatory 7 day schedule and my bosses almost act like I'm going to be jumped out in the parking lot if I refuse to work 4 hrs over on weekends to cover those who are skipping out.
Anyway I just want to comment on that Kzoo place. Like I said, I've been here in Michigan ( GO WOLVERINES ! ) for a while. I know basically Oakland and Macomb Counties ( Madison Hts, Sterling Hts, Royal Oak, Warren, Clawson, etc). and not much else. When I hear about that Kzoo place I always hear Clampoo or Klampoo . Isn't it it on the Shores of Lake Michigan or close by?
I associate Lake Michigan with an Ocean since it's so big - like a freshwater Ocean. So Ocean ..... Clams... or Klams .... Klampoo ! Wouldn't it be great to have a Seafood Restaurant in Klampoo with Klampoo Chowder on the menu? I'll bet the Kids would be the biggest fans. Don't they just love weird and disgusting things like that?
Oh gawd. I need a break. This 7 day schedule is about to finish me off. ☻
By the way, the Hot Topic by Laura was great. I've always enjoyed reading her opinions. She is one of the few " alive " people in this rather dull and dying hobby.
@bronco2078 said:
Ugh PNG guardian of coin docs since the first one crawled out from under its rock.
I've wondered for a long time why nothing can be done about doctors when they are known. It makes some sense if they are being protected as mentioned in the article. If this is the case, kudos to Laura for not joining them.
Coin doctors are not being protected by anyone, nor do they need protection, because coin doctoring is not illegal.
It is against the PNG Code of Ethics. Are there consequences when members violate that or is that not enforced? Or is no one violating that?
For the PNG to act, someone would have to file a complaint against a coin doctor. (I don't think anyone has actually done that yet, but I'd suggest that Laura should. ) If appropriate, I presume the PNG might order restitution or expel the member. Either way, the doctor would likely continue with business as usual.
Hmm... Most regulatory agencies or groups I know of actually have their complaint process online for all to see. I specifically emailed the PNG to inquire about the process a few years ago in anticipation of filing one, but the PNG didn't even bother to respond. Insofar as its code of ethics, some PNG members are among the most flagrant violators of those principles. The PNG cannot be that oblivious. If it really cared about ethics and professionalism, it would purge its roster of hucksters (all in my humble opinion of course).
@MrEureka said:
I'm trying to undestand the rationale for the ANA doing a registry. Considering the ANA's limited resources, Isnt that a job best left to private firms? Or is this something the ANA can do better than anyone else?
If the ANA allowed PCGS and NGC graded coins into their registry, it would be a cut above the private firms. But they are never going to do that because NGC is the official grading service of the ANA.
The NGC registry used to be fun for me. Now I don't really care about it. I have not taken my collections down because I put so much effort into it, but whaever magic there was is gone.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@MrEureka said:
I'm trying to undestand the rationale for the ANA doing a registry. Considering the ANA's limited resources, Isnt that a job best left to private firms? Or is this something the ANA can do better than anyone else?
If the ANA allowed PCGS and NGC graded coins into their registry, it would be a cut above the private firms. But they are never going to do that because NGC is the official grading service of the ANA.
The NGC registry used to be fun for me. Now I don't really care about it. I have not taken my collections down because I put so much effort into it, but whaever magic there was is gone.
I agree that it would be better to allow both pcgs and ngc coins in a registry. (I'd also like to see raw coins included.) One day, the services are likely to allow anything in a set, but to calculate set rankings based only on the coins they graded themselves. Or they might do separate rankings, one with and one without the competition's coins. When Something like that is done, any investment made by the ANA in a registry will become money flushed down the toilet.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@bronco2078 said:
Ugh PNG guardian of coin docs since the first one crawled out from under its rock.
I've wondered for a long time why nothing can be done about doctors when they are known. It makes some sense if they are being protected as mentioned in the article. If this is the case, kudos to Laura for not joining them.
Coin doctors are not being protected by anyone, nor do they need protection, because coin doctoring is not illegal.
It is against the PNG Code of Ethics. Are there consequences when members violate that or is that not enforced? Or is no one violating that?
For the PNG to act, someone would have to file a complaint against a coin doctor. (I don't think anyone has actually done that yet, but I'd suggest that Laura should. ) If appropriate, I presume the PNG might order restitution or expel the member. Either way, the doctor would likely continue with business as usual.
Hmm... Most regulatory agencies or groups I know of actually have their complaint process online for all to see. I specifically emailed the PNG to inquire about the process a few years ago in anticipation of filing one, but the PNG didn't even bother to respond.
In this world, lots of emails go unanswered for all kinds of reasons. So if it's worth filing a complaint, I'd suggest following up with a phone call.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
I'm trying to undestand the rationale for the ANA doing a registry. Considering the ANA's limited resources, Isnt that a job best left to private firms? Or is this something the ANA can do better than anyone else?
If the ANA allowed PCGS and NGC graded coins into their registry, it would be a cut above the private firms. But they are never going to do that because NGC is the official grading service of the ANA.
The NGC registry used to be fun for me. Now I don't really care about it. I have not taken my collections down because I put so much effort into it, but whaever magic there was is gone.
I agree that it would be better to allow both pcgs and ngc coins in a registry. (I'd also like to see raw coins included.) One day, the services are likely to allow anything in a set, but to calculate set rankings based only on the coins they graded themselves. Or they might do separate rankings, one with and one without the competition's coins. When Something like that is done, any investment made by the ANA in a registry will become money flushed down the toilet.
I don't really care about the set rankings. The NGC system is stacked against quality 18th and 19th century collector grade coins in favor of high grade 20th century material. That made their point system a farce. It would be great if there were a forum where you could post coins and write-ups regardless who graded the coin, within reason.
Why "within reason?" Counterfeits have no place in a registry.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
p.s. Laura's ideas of University and registry are worth consideration, but I don't think either one is a silver bullet. I see very little economic return for the University. Don't they sort of do this with Summer seminar?? Didn't someone else try the University thing??? I think PNG tried something and all I heard was crickets...
John ... read my post above. I lead the effort to create a numismatic degree program while at the ANA. I met with administrators at Colorado College and began discussions with Johnson City Community College to develop a hybrid degree program (onsite plus online). The ANA Board had no interest in supporting the idea other than a patronizing "that sounds neat" response ... no resources would be allocated.
The trouble is too many people in ANA governance think higher education is plopping people in a classroom for a few days and awarding a certificate of attendance ... without any type of meaningful assessment. In other words, they believe Coin Camp (Summer Seminar) = College education.*
The ANA will not become an accredited** institute of higher learning because nobody at the ANA understands what that means and the level of resourcing necessary to bring the idea to fruition ... even if they partner with a real university.
*Don't misunderstand my comment ... I think Summer Seminar is excellent for what it is ... an educational opportunity and a time for fun and fellowship. It is not equivalent to a university course in numismatics.
**Accreditation is the key ... without it, any "degree" granted is worthless.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Great article I agree with all of it. I haven't seen an obvious change to a Summer ANA in the decade I have attended. I agree also with the Numismatist not being all that good any more. Too much fluff, not enough research stuff. The only reason I have kept my ANA membership is to get pre-registered for the show. But what Ms. Sperber points out in terms of how ANA could engage the collecting community via stronger education and a set registry on the internet is brilliant. But I imagine that the officers and admin at ANA are mostly pretty conservative and ingrained in the way things are done. After all, change takes effort and new thinking. Maybe Ms. Sperber needs to start a new numismatic club and put her ideas into action?
@JohnF said:
I really disagree with the negative dissent of the ANA. It's so unproductive. I have been a life member for over 25 years and I feel very strongly that the ANA speaks for us as a hobby. The ANA has certainly suffered mis-steps over the past decade or so, maybe longer, I really don't know. What I do know is that the organization's mandate is purely to help advance our hobby. Period. Why would we trash this organization?? We should do all that we can to HELP it!
Okay, this summer's show could have been better attended. I've seen the numbers and I was at the event. However, it was a beautiful show from the aesthetic. The U.S. Mint was out in full force as well as all the major U.S. dealers and auction companies.
PNG day has always been controversial. The reason this event keeps happening (for better or worse) is simple. PNG pays the ANA a good amount of money for the privilege and enough PNG dealers support the event with table fees. In other words, it's purely economic, and the ANA needs all the economic help it can get.
Just to circle back here, there's simply no benefit to us (as a collector/dealer group) to do anything but support the ANA. If you don't want to support it, just sit on your hands. But to trash the organization has no place in my book. Our hobby is in real need of growth, from children to senior citizens. We should all do our best to sign up anyone who collects coins and doesn't belong. There is strength in numbers and ANA needs numbers.
Finally, I think it would be equally devastating to our hobby if the ANA were to drop the Summer Worlds Fair of Money show. The show has been, and still is, the most important numismatic event of the year and it really matters. Does it matter if 100,000 people show up or 10,000? Yes. But just stuffing a bunch of uninterested high school kids through the door won't improve our hobby. I'd rather see 8,500 really serious coin collectors than 50,000 people in Darth Vader costumes. From what I'm told there is very little money spent on "real" collectibles at comi-con. It's really just a party atmosphere. That's cool too, but coin dealers travel across the country to make money, cover expenses, etc, not just show off their inventory.
John
p.s. Laura's ideas of University and registry are worth consideration, but I don't think either one is a silver bullet. I see very little economic return for the University. Don't they sort of do this with Summer seminar?? Didn't someone else try the University thing??? I think PNG tried something and all I heard was crickets...
I think what she is really saying is not to not support ANA, but instead that ANA needs to rethink how it does things in our modern world to advance numismatics and better engage the collecting base. It is good when someone stirs things up, gets them to think, maybe thinking will help. I have not seen an obvious change to Summer ANA over the decade I have attended, this is not the 70's any longer, Ms. Sperber is basically saying - wake up ANA.
@Zoins said: "I think her recommendations of a Numismatic University and a Registry are good ones. It could be interesting to assemble their classes into a masters program or even a PhD. Kagin, ANA VP, has a PhD of Numismatics and could possibly help with this. As for the Registry, many people here have asked for one so it could be worthwhile to provide."
I know Don, I like Don, He has done a lot for our hobby/business; however....wait, here comes the BUT...the PhD in numismatics is well....
@BillJones said: "The Winter FUN show runs circles around both of ANA shows. FUN goes out of its way to treat the dealers well."
I'll add collectors to his comments. The FUN show is the biggest and best coin show in the nation and still growing. Cindy, Randy, the FUN Board, and all the volunteers (sunny FL in winter helps too) make it that way. The ANA could learn a thing or ten from them!
@MrEureka said: "I'm trying to undestand the rationale for the ANA doing a registry. Considering the ANA's limited resources, Isnt that a job best left to private firms? Or is this something the ANA can do better than anyone else?"
IMO, there is none! Why? It takes time, upkeep, money and ....IT IS ALREADY BEING DONE VERY WELL by two organizations. The ONLY reason I can see is to offer the "Champion of Champion" sets by choosing from the other two.
@JohnF said: "I really disagree with the negative dissent of the ANA. It's so unproductive... Why would we trash this organization?? We should do all that we can to HELP it!"
Dear John, (I really like the sound of that while reading a letter )
There is a big difference between "trash talk" and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Am I clear enough? I too am a life member and up to a few years ago, I donated my time, money, and constructive ideas for the ANA's educational programs. Possible problems brought into the open by folks such as Laura who have been on the inside and outside promote change.
I didn't even know there was an ANA webpage or site...? $750 Grand? WTF? Why wouldn't they market that better. I do appreciate Laura donating her time and money to the ANA, she has a gripe and has paid her dues.. Charmy is trying to help with her most recent survey. I think the table fees are way to high for what you get. Good article...
@Wabbit2313 said:
750K (She says "G") for a website? Sounds high to me.
Perhaps the # stated is for dramatic reason (s).
That's cheap compared to what that "new" U.S. Helth Care site cost the government (spelled you and me)! And it didn't work! It all depends on who gets the contracts and whom they know.
@Wabbit2313 said:
750K (She says "G") for a website? Sounds high to me.
Perhaps the # stated is for dramatic reason (s).
That's cheap compared to what that "new" U.S. Helth Care site cost the government (spelled you and me)! And it didn't work! It all depends on who gets the contracts and whom they know.
@Wabbit2313 said:
750K (She says "G") for a website? Sounds high to me.
Perhaps the # stated is for dramatic reason (s).
That's cheap compared to what that "new" U.S. Helth Care site cost the government (spelled you and me)! And it didn't work! It all depends on who gets the contracts and whom they know.
That's a lot of membership dues. Do we know how that compares to the money the PNG pays for PNG Day?
Wow, four+ years yelling and screaming. Lots of good ideas with no ability to execute.
Of course we need a university. If ANA doesn't do it, someone else will. Most likely for profit.
I for one cannot afford to go to grading seminars in person.
@Some_of_it said:
Wow, four+ years yelling and screaming. Lots of good ideas with no ability to execute.
Of course we need a university. If ANA doesn't do it, someone else will. Most likely for profit.
I for one cannot afford to go to grading seminars in person.
Did you happen to read my post about the other options offered by he ANA?
@Some_of_it said:
Wow, four+ years yelling and screaming. Lots of good ideas with no ability to execute.
Of course we need a university. If ANA doesn't do it, someone else will. Most likely for profit.
I for one cannot afford to go to grading seminars in person.
Is yelling and screaming the correct approach? Many folks are full of great ideas, but have no ability to either implement alone or the capacity to work with others to implement.
A university? What leads you to believe the ANA is capable of becoming a numismatic university?
If you cannot afford to attend a grading seminar, how can you afford to attend a university course on grading? The grading seminars offered by the ANA are CHEAP as compared with a university course.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I have to say I rather enjoyed her post...I don't read them often given my main collecting focus is far from her segment of the market. Her frustration is palpable and it's not like she wasn't providing some great ideas.
Somehow if I'd been in the room and the suggestion was to grow membership by getting 'the dealer's wives to join' I would have loudly, firmly, and standing on two feet, told them what I thought. There would have been a lot of profanity and name calling involved. Not only as a seriously backwards and idiotic thought to begin with, but talk about a non-sustainable 'growth' mechanism. What are they, a corporation trying to buff quarterly profits? Or are they a service organization being run to benefit members and should have actual REAL ideas? Of course, then I'd be escorted out which really wouldn't be productive. I don't know how she stood it for so long.
An online educational series would be brilliant, especially for demographics who might find travel to a seminar more costly in both time and funds.
Love the idea of a more inclusive registry type thing too. Think of the great sets and information that could be shared/seen.
I don't really care about the set rankings. The NGC system is stacked against quality 18th and 19th century collector grade coins in favor of high grade 20th century material. That made their point system a farce. It would be great if there were a forum where you could post coins and write-ups regardless who graded the coin, within reason.
Why "within reason?" Counterfeits have no place in a registry.
@MrEureka said:
I'm trying to undestand the rationale for the ANA doing a registry. Considering the ANA's limited resources, Isnt that a job best left to private firms? Or is this something the ANA can do better than anyone else?
I think collective coin has/had potential to move that way. You can tag your coins into any collection and add descriptions as desired. Any grader/raw coins can be included. Stacks has purchased the site so in my dreams (and in their 'how can we make this better' email I suggested a registry. Not sure how they'd do the points/scores but hey, at least it's a place I can do things like this:
One thing I'd like to see the ANA do is aggressively look for opportunities to loan coins and for use in TV shows and movies, and for public exhibits in banks, government buildings, schools and museums. And with respect to the public exhibits, ANA volunteers and local coin clubs should be tapped to provide assistance with setting up the exhibits. All of these things could be very productive in terms of attracting fresh blood to the hobby.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
One thing I'd like to see the ANA do is aggressively look for opportunities to loan coins and for use in TV shows and movies, and for public exhibits in banks, government buildings, schools and museums. And with respect to the public exhibits, ANA volunteers and local coin clubs should be tapped to provide assistance with setting up the exhibits. All of these things could be very productive in terms of attracting fresh blood to the hobby.
Good thoughts on promoting coins more.
Movies have all kinds of props made including running cars, so I imagine many movies would just use prop coins, instead of coins that may actually be worth something. But, it might be more worthwhile to convince TV shows and movies to have more stories about coins.
Sorry in advance if this is a bit harsh as I have just finished off a nice bottle of Malbec. It does help the words to flow......
I was hopeful that LS would be able to make some changes at the ANA - I voted for her. It is now evident that she has not been able to do so, and I'm not exactly sure why. Had lots of bluster when running for the board, but now lots of pissin' and moanin' now that she is back on the sidelines.
Don't get me wrong, much of her vision is on target. But she can't/couldn't get it done. Classic. Knows what needs to be done. but doesn't have a clue how to IMPLEMENT anything. Leaders need to have a vision AND the ability to implement AND the perseverance to make it happen.
Disclaimer: I have never been to a major ANA show and don't plan to EVER attend one unless it is in my backyard in NC AND I am allowed to bring my "protection". I'll go to FUN instead.
For heaven's sake - carpet was a high priority? Really?
She tends to come from a position of pointing out where the problems are, but didn't seem to get any action going to solve them. Classic "put the turd on the table and make everyone smell it". BAD MANAGEMENT in my book. If the intent was to have the ANA Staff implement - where was the followup by the Board?
So now that she is gone, she is taking pot shots at everything and everyone she doesn't like. To slam the working level people at the ANA is a new low. It is NOT the peoples' fault, it is the fault of MANAGEMENT and THE BOARD. So she fails Management 101 in my book. SHE was part of the problem. Or perhaps she was simply an "amateur with good intentions".
As to her two big issues of late: Agree that education would be a great thing. Would help the hobbyists and bring in new blood. BUT: The ANA registry is full of booby traps. Most of my significant coins are in PCGS and NGC holders. How will the ANACS and ICG holdered coins be handled? Will I be able to finally register my ACG coins? (Sarcasm as I don't own any). I think the idea is OK, but once again there was no plan to get it done. See a pattern here?
Having bled off a little steam I will finish by saying what EVERYONE knows. She can't spell. The multiple spelling errors and misuse of words makes the rant come off as it was written by a fifth grader. That is not helpful when trying to lead the ANA through its problems and inspire confidence in her "high roller" customers. My friends and relatives in Kalamazoo will never forgive her. Spelling someone's name wrong is as bad as it gets in my book.
One last thing. I have never purchased a coin from her and now would never buy one going forward. She might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I am old-school. You don't bash the organization you managed, especially after you were ineffective in making the positive changes the membership had hoped you would implement.
I look forward to reading the next Hot Topics, maybe a fifth grader will proof-read it before it goes out.
Now - where is that second bottle of Malbec....
Flame away. I really wish I could be more positive but sometimes you just have to speak out. We all want things to get better and for the hobby to grow.
This post is the opinion of Cameonut, not Legend Numismatics or Legend Rare Coin Auctions.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
Laura was critical of the ANA before during and after her tenure. She has remained consistent just like her spelling. She and her firm have been great for me personally on the buy and sell side.
Red wine hang overs suck
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@ricko said:
Great article. I have enjoyed Laura's articles for many years. Any business person can see the excellent points she is making about promotion and growth. It would appear that the ANA is a dying organization that will vanish due to it's inability to see the future and evolve. Cheers, RickO
@Cameonut said:
Having bled off a little steam I will finish by saying what EVERYONE knows. She can't spell. The multiple spelling errors >and misuse of words makes the rant come off as it was written by a fifth grader. That is not helpful when trying to lead the >ANA through its problems and inspire confidence in her "high roller" customers. My friends and relatives in Kalamazoo >will never forgive her. Spelling someone's name wrong is as bad as it gets in my book.
I wasn't going to say anything but since you were honest enough to write it, let me add my voice. This isn't an issue with a quirk of spelling. The level of written English here is shockingly bad. But Cameonut, I fear we're in the minority when it comes to caring about this. To most, we're just the grammar police.
Someone who cares about her should just say 'Send me everything you want to publish and let me proof it'.
As an aside, I wrote to Laura Sperber with a question about collecting from a beginner. I never heard anything back from her. And that's unusual - I've written to a lot of pros and big dealers and I've received a tremendous response rate. I realize she's a very high end pro, but...just a word or two?
@Cameonut What you fail to consider is how hard it is to turn the direction of an organization around when you are in the minority. New ideas are slow to catch on, especially if they are entrenched. I can think of several examples:
Since I cannot bring up what is going on with today's political farce, the next best example I can think of is the ANA Grading Service. Since it began, ANACS has always graded coins for internal records to help identify coins in case of loss. Then they were moved to CO and the ANA decided to have a grading service. As soon as word got out, the other authentication service at the time (INS) started releasing their internal grades used to ID coins for free to their customers. INS change their practices in one day. No, monkey business needed from a board of governors - just several phone calls. Meanwhile, the ANA needed to publish a Coin Grading Guide before they could do what they had been doing internally for years!
Here is another. There is an award given each year by a major publication. They wished for another group to take over the award. They had an offer from FUN to do it but considering the ANA is the national organization that represents collectors they chose to try the ANA first. The publication was basically told that nothing would happen. Well, something did. The ANA formed a committee and sure enough after about a year and a half of nothing, the publication contacted FUN because nothing happened and in a week or two, the program was established again, someone was put in charge, and this year the award was given out just as before.
I hope you'll cut LS a little slack for failing to do as she wished when the alcohol haze wears off.
As a simple collector, I have no idea what value Ana adds... I know the TPG's, I know their registries, I know the big auction houses, I know forums to chat and ask questions and gain knowledge, yet in 7 years, I have never used an Ana resource or understood what it's purpose is....except for sometimes seeing show reports....just an observation
@Cameonut What you fail to consider is how hard it is to turn the direction of an organization around when you are in the minority. New ideas are slow to catch on, especially if they are entrenched
Good points.
Actually, I do understand how hard it is to make changes when dealing with an organization that won't change. Years ago, I ran for an elected office but ran with three other candidates with similar thoughts on what change was necessary. We ALL got elected by a wide margin and started making changes on day one. We all knew that an individual could not break the "good 'ol boy/girl network". So we broke the network and installed new management. We kept most of the working level people - they were not the problem. They were simply doing what management told them to do.
Perhaps I was too harsh on her. I do give her credit for running for the board and attempting to make some changes. These positions require a ton of personal time and energy and are rarely appreciated. In any event, I am pretty sure we would all agree that change is needed, but that it hasn't happened yet.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
Actually, I do understand how hard it is to make changes when dealing with an organization that won't change. Years ago, I ran for an elected office but ran with three other candidates with similar thoughts on what change was necessary. We ALL got elected by a wide margin and started making changes on day one. We all knew that an individual could not break the "good 'ol boy/girl network". So we broke the network and installed new management. We kept most of the working level people - they were not the problem. They were simply doing what management told them to do.
Perhaps I was too harsh on her. I do give her credit for running for the board and attempting to make some changes. These positions require a ton of personal time and energy and are rarely appreciated. In any event, I am pretty sure we would all agree that change is needed, but that it hasn't happened yet.
Meaningful change will come slow at the ANA, if ever. Governors are elected every 2 years. It's difficult to sustain momentum for new ideas when the leadership turns over so rapidly. In addition, governors are elected by a small fraction of the voting membership based on popularity and not ability to lead a national non-profit educational organization.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Can someone please better explain the concept of a numismatic university? Laura mentions DeVry and University of Phoenix as large examples, and people are taking about accredited degrees, but I can't see any direct relation to numismatics except in a fairy tale. Online classes or modules could certainly make sense, but that doesn't seem to be scope that is being referred to.
Let me try. A place that offers courses on coins. They can be tailored to different fields. For example, a doctorate in Coins of England and the United Kingdom. The Spink Reference would be one of the textbooks. It covers about 150 BC to modern times. Classes would include the history, authentication, grading, identification, coin making techniques and the machinery used, and tokens. Much of the curriculum would be the history of each ruler. et there are several British numismatists who could plan the syllabus and teach the courses. Written papers would be required for the BS, MS, and Phd levels of study. See, just like a regular college.
@Insider2 said:
Let me try. A place that offers courses on coins. They can be tailored to different fields. For example, a doctorate in Coins of England and the United Kingdom. The Spink Reference would be one of the textbooks. It covers about 150 BC to modern times. Classes would include the history, authentication, grading, identification, coin making techniques and the machinery used, and tokens. Much of the curriculum would be the history of each ruler. et there are several British numismatists who could plan the syllabus and teach the courses. Written papers would be required for the BS, MS, and Phd levels of study. See, just like a regular college.
And, then these over-educated people with a supposed "PhD" in numismatics would get jobs where and doing what?? Can we create a PhD in underwater basket weaving while we're at it?
-Brandon -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins] -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
In reply to my post about the possible qualifications to get a Phd in a field of numismatics, @brg5658 posted: "And, then these over-educated people with a supposed "PhD" in numismatics would get jobs where and doing what?? Can we create a PhD in underwater basket weaving while we're at it? "
As often is the case, his reply has nothing to do with the reality of my post. Basket weaving? Not funny.
I must have hit a nerve! What do you have against folks who will know more than you ever will about a numismatic field of their choice? Some people much less informed and qualified than you just might like to have a path to knowledge without any intention to get a job in numismatics. BTW, I don't know anyone who considers themselves "over-educated" in our hobby. Do you? I think not...LOL.
PS @Wabbit2313 What do you think of this post? Are you also over educated regarding numismatics?
PPS If I owned an auction company or large dealership I should what folks with a Phd in numismatics>
Hey Brandon, I thought you were a professional numismatist. Since you are not, I understand your comments much better. BTW, I like your photography skills. Perhaps I should have suggested a course of classes to receive a Phd in Photography!
My father (David Lawrence) had a Ph.D (Miami) in Marine Biology and never felt the need to get one in numismatics. Experience trumps formal education in rare coins. However, that said, most everyone can appreciate the benefits of a few institutions offering a genuine degree in this area. However, doing so will not save the ANA financially. Or pay for a month's worth of my Starbucks bill.
John Feigenbaum Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com) PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
There already are BS, MS and PhD degrees in Photography.
We have had many discussions on here on doctoring and it should be a crime, if it isn't. In my opinion, it is fraud. I do believe that if someone like an Eric Newman or one of the really deep pocketed hedge fund guys made it their life's work to stamp it out, some major strides could be made. I know there are levels and categories of doctoring, but some of them to me are little better than the Chinese factories. If you had the political connections and money to establish and pay for a Numismatic Crimes Bureau at the Secret Service, the tunes might change.
With all the technology changes plus advances in online teaching (see Khan Academy), you could build a library of classes that would eventually lead to an online degree program. I'd likely be willing to pay tuition for a few dozen classes myself. It would also be great to get some of the real experts on tape, teaching this stuff while they are still around.
@shorecoll said: "There already are BS, MS and PhD degrees in Photography."
I know, I took one class college. Then decided to concentrate on something else. My post was to be an "inside joke" for another member. >
He continued: "With all the technology changes plus advances in online teaching (see Khan Academy), you could build a library of classes that would eventually lead to an online degree program. I'd likely be willing to pay tuition for a few dozen classes myself. It would also be great to get some of the real experts on tape, teaching this stuff while they are still around."
Much of the teaching is being done already. Have you ever been to the ANA Summer Seminar? The problem is that no entity has taken on a "real" path to a "real" degree yet. Besides this subject lends itself to a lot of "hands-on" work.
I only know of one Dr. of Numismatics. I'll bet that anyone can go to a college an set up a course of study that would lead to an actual degree. All it should take is money and a BS in history first. Then graduate work through a honest plan of courses + summer intern programs. I'll guarantee that a thread here entitled "After a BS in American history and economics, what course plan would you need to get a Phd in Numismatics" would produce the ideal program.
@Wabbit2313 said:
750K (She says "G") for a website? Sounds high to me.
K is used in the scientific community, G is used in the financial. I always use M for million, my banker uses GG.
K, G, or GG, it sounds like way to much for that clunker website!
Pesos would be more in line
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The ANA is a typical non profit organization. Those that are already employed keep change from happening.
Presidents and governors have and want limited responsibility.
The executive director has the only real input. If they stray from the path of the old guard, accusations occur, and lawsuits are filed. Sad how much time and money has been wasted.
Comments
The reasoning that the ANA can provide what collectors want is because the private registries are restricted by TPG brand. It sounds useful because it would support the goal of increasing membership that many have.
An ANA employee posted here one reason ANA membership is declining is that the governors thought it was enough to give signup incentives but not improve membership offerings.
Hey I've been in Michigan for 8 years now. Don't get out much because I'm a prisoner of my job. Currently I'm on a mandatory 7 day schedule and my bosses almost act like I'm going to be jumped out in the parking lot if I refuse to work 4 hrs over on weekends to cover those who are skipping out.
Anyway I just want to comment on that Kzoo place. Like I said, I've been here in Michigan ( GO WOLVERINES ! ) for a while. I know basically Oakland and Macomb Counties ( Madison Hts, Sterling Hts, Royal Oak, Warren, Clawson, etc). and not much else. When I hear about that Kzoo place I always hear Clampoo or Klampoo . Isn't it it on the Shores of Lake Michigan or close by?
I associate Lake Michigan with an Ocean since it's so big - like a freshwater Ocean. So Ocean ..... Clams... or Klams .... Klampoo ! Wouldn't it be great to have a Seafood Restaurant in Klampoo with Klampoo Chowder on the menu? I'll bet the Kids would be the biggest fans. Don't they just love weird and disgusting things like that?
Oh gawd. I need a break. This 7 day schedule is about to finish me off. ☻
By the way, the Hot Topic by Laura was great. I've always enjoyed reading her opinions. She is one of the few " alive " people in this rather dull and dying hobby.
Hmm... Most regulatory agencies or groups I know of actually have their complaint process online for all to see. I specifically emailed the PNG to inquire about the process a few years ago in anticipation of filing one, but the PNG didn't even bother to respond. Insofar as its code of ethics, some PNG members are among the most flagrant violators of those principles. The PNG cannot be that oblivious. If it really cared about ethics and professionalism, it would purge its roster of hucksters (all in my humble opinion of course).
If the ANA allowed PCGS and NGC graded coins into their registry, it would be a cut above the private firms. But they are never going to do that because NGC is the official grading service of the ANA.
The NGC registry used to be fun for me. Now I don't really care about it. I have not taken my collections down because I put so much effort into it, but whaever magic there was is gone.
I agree that it would be better to allow both pcgs and ngc coins in a registry. (I'd also like to see raw coins included.) One day, the services are likely to allow anything in a set, but to calculate set rankings based only on the coins they graded themselves. Or they might do separate rankings, one with and one without the competition's coins. When Something like that is done, any investment made by the ANA in a registry will become money flushed down the toilet.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
750K (She says "G") for a website? Sounds high to me.
In this world, lots of emails go unanswered for all kinds of reasons. So if it's worth filing a complaint, I'd suggest following up with a phone call.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don't really care about the set rankings. The NGC system is stacked against quality 18th and 19th century collector grade coins in favor of high grade 20th century material. That made their point system a farce. It would be great if there were a forum where you could post coins and write-ups regardless who graded the coin, within reason.
Why "within reason?" Counterfeits have no place in a registry.
John ... read my post above. I lead the effort to create a numismatic degree program while at the ANA. I met with administrators at Colorado College and began discussions with Johnson City Community College to develop a hybrid degree program (onsite plus online). The ANA Board had no interest in supporting the idea other than a patronizing "that sounds neat" response ... no resources would be allocated.
The trouble is too many people in ANA governance think higher education is plopping people in a classroom for a few days and awarding a certificate of attendance ... without any type of meaningful assessment. In other words, they believe Coin Camp (Summer Seminar) = College education.*
The ANA will not become an accredited** institute of higher learning because nobody at the ANA understands what that means and the level of resourcing necessary to bring the idea to fruition ... even if they partner with a real university.
*Don't misunderstand my comment ... I think Summer Seminar is excellent for what it is ... an educational opportunity and a time for fun and fellowship. It is not equivalent to a university course in numismatics.
**Accreditation is the key ... without it, any "degree" granted is worthless.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Great article I agree with all of it. I haven't seen an obvious change to a Summer ANA in the decade I have attended. I agree also with the Numismatist not being all that good any more. Too much fluff, not enough research stuff. The only reason I have kept my ANA membership is to get pre-registered for the show. But what Ms. Sperber points out in terms of how ANA could engage the collecting community via stronger education and a set registry on the internet is brilliant. But I imagine that the officers and admin at ANA are mostly pretty conservative and ingrained in the way things are done. After all, change takes effort and new thinking. Maybe Ms. Sperber needs to start a new numismatic club and put her ideas into action?
Best, SH
I think what she is really saying is not to not support ANA, but instead that ANA needs to rethink how it does things in our modern world to advance numismatics and better engage the collecting base. It is good when someone stirs things up, gets them to think, maybe thinking will help. I have not seen an obvious change to Summer ANA over the decade I have attended, this is not the 70's any longer, Ms. Sperber is basically saying - wake up ANA.
Best, SH
@Zoins said: "I think her recommendations of a Numismatic University and a Registry are good ones. It could be interesting to assemble their classes into a masters program or even a PhD. Kagin, ANA VP, has a PhD of Numismatics and could possibly help with this. As for the Registry, many people here have asked for one so it could be worthwhile to provide."
I know Don, I like Don, He has done a lot for our hobby/business; however....wait, here comes the BUT...the PhD in numismatics is well....
@BillJones said: "The Winter FUN show runs circles around both of ANA shows. FUN goes out of its way to treat the dealers well."
I'll add collectors to his comments. The FUN show is the biggest and best coin show in the nation and still growing. Cindy, Randy, the FUN Board, and all the volunteers (sunny FL in winter helps too) make it that way. The ANA could learn a thing or ten from them!
@MrEureka said: "I'm trying to undestand the rationale for the ANA doing a registry. Considering the ANA's limited resources, Isnt that a job best left to private firms? Or is this something the ANA can do better than anyone else?"
IMO, there is none! Why? It takes time, upkeep, money and ....IT IS ALREADY BEING DONE VERY WELL by two organizations. The ONLY reason I can see is to offer the "Champion of Champion" sets by choosing from the other two.
@JohnF said: "I really disagree with the negative dissent of the ANA. It's so unproductive... Why would we trash this organization?? We should do all that we can to HELP it!"
Dear John, (I really like the sound of that while reading a letter
)
There is a big difference between "trash talk" and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Am I clear enough? I too am a life member and up to a few years ago, I donated my time, money, and constructive ideas for the ANA's educational programs. Possible problems brought into the open by folks such as Laura who have been on the inside and outside promote change.
Perhaps the # stated is for dramatic reason (s).
I didn't even know there was an ANA webpage or site...? $750 Grand? WTF? Why wouldn't they market that better. I do appreciate Laura donating her time and money to the ANA, she has a gripe and has paid her dues.. Charmy is trying to help with her most recent survey. I think the table fees are way to high for what you get. Good article...
That's cheap compared to what that "new" U.S. Helth Care site cost the government (spelled you and me)! And it didn't work! It all depends on who gets the contracts and whom they know.
Like comparing PCGS to ACG.
@ThePennyLady - Here is another dealer perspective regarding ANA shows for the committee to consider.
That's a lot of membership dues. Do we know how that compares to the money the PNG pays for PNG Day?
Wow, four+ years yelling and screaming. Lots of good ideas with no ability to execute.
Of course we need a university. If ANA doesn't do it, someone else will. Most likely for profit.
I for one cannot afford to go to grading seminars in person.
I believe when CAC ( stman ducking) started TDN mentioned how about a Registry set with CAC?
Seems they would have to include both services and collectors would probably like it.
Hey how about letting all tax payers participate in numismatics (mostly monetarily) via a federal agency:
Secretary
of
Numismatics
or
SON
or
Dept.
of
Numismimatics
DON
Did you happen to read my post about the other options offered by he ANA?
Is yelling and screaming the correct approach? Many folks are full of great ideas, but have no ability to either implement alone or the capacity to work with others to implement.
A university? What leads you to believe the ANA is capable of becoming a numismatic university?
If you cannot afford to attend a grading seminar, how can you afford to attend a university course on grading? The grading seminars offered by the ANA are CHEAP as compared with a university course.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I have to say I rather enjoyed her post...I don't read them often given my main collecting focus is far from her segment of the market. Her frustration is palpable and it's not like she wasn't providing some great ideas.
Somehow if I'd been in the room and the suggestion was to grow membership by getting 'the dealer's wives to join' I would have loudly, firmly, and standing on two feet, told them what I thought. There would have been a lot of profanity and name calling involved. Not only as a seriously backwards and idiotic thought to begin with, but talk about a non-sustainable 'growth' mechanism. What are they, a corporation trying to buff quarterly profits? Or are they a service organization being run to benefit members and should have actual REAL ideas? Of course, then I'd be escorted out which really wouldn't be productive. I don't know how she stood it for so long.
An online educational series would be brilliant, especially for demographics who might find travel to a seminar more costly in both time and funds.
Love the idea of a more inclusive registry type thing too. Think of the great sets and information that could be shared/seen.
I think collective coin has/had potential to move that way. You can tag your coins into any collection and add descriptions as desired. Any grader/raw coins can be included. Stacks has purchased the site so in my dreams (and in their 'how can we make this better' email I suggested a registry. Not sure how they'd do the points/scores but hey, at least it's a place I can do things like this:
https://collectivecoin.com/Stork/lA6W4Blpbmx8PVykWOZE
One thing I'd like to see the ANA do is aggressively look for opportunities to loan coins and for use in TV shows and movies, and for public exhibits in banks, government buildings, schools and museums. And with respect to the public exhibits, ANA volunteers and local coin clubs should be tapped to provide assistance with setting up the exhibits. All of these things could be very productive in terms of attracting fresh blood to the hobby.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Good thoughts on promoting coins more.
Movies have all kinds of props made including running cars, so I imagine many movies would just use prop coins, instead of coins that may actually be worth something. But, it might be more worthwhile to convince TV shows and movies to have more stories about coins.
Some banks with good exhibits include:
Sorry in advance if this is a bit harsh as I have just finished off a nice bottle of Malbec. It does help the words to flow......
I was hopeful that LS would be able to make some changes at the ANA - I voted for her. It is now evident that she has not been able to do so, and I'm not exactly sure why. Had lots of bluster when running for the board, but now lots of pissin' and moanin' now that she is back on the sidelines.
Don't get me wrong, much of her vision is on target. But she can't/couldn't get it done. Classic. Knows what needs to be done. but doesn't have a clue how to IMPLEMENT anything. Leaders need to have a vision AND the ability to implement AND the perseverance to make it happen.
Disclaimer: I have never been to a major ANA show and don't plan to EVER attend one unless it is in my backyard in NC AND I am allowed to bring my "protection". I'll go to FUN instead.
For heaven's sake - carpet was a high priority? Really?
She tends to come from a position of pointing out where the problems are, but didn't seem to get any action going to solve them. Classic "put the turd on the table and make everyone smell it". BAD MANAGEMENT in my book. If the intent was to have the ANA Staff implement - where was the followup by the Board?
So now that she is gone, she is taking pot shots at everything and everyone she doesn't like. To slam the working level people at the ANA is a new low. It is NOT the peoples' fault, it is the fault of MANAGEMENT and THE BOARD. So she fails Management 101 in my book. SHE was part of the problem. Or perhaps she was simply an "amateur with good intentions".
As to her two big issues of late: Agree that education would be a great thing. Would help the hobbyists and bring in new blood. BUT: The ANA registry is full of booby traps. Most of my significant coins are in PCGS and NGC holders. How will the ANACS and ICG holdered coins be handled? Will I be able to finally register my ACG coins? (Sarcasm as I don't own any). I think the idea is OK, but once again there was no plan to get it done. See a pattern here?
Having bled off a little steam I will finish by saying what EVERYONE knows. She can't spell. The multiple spelling errors and misuse of words makes the rant come off as it was written by a fifth grader. That is not helpful when trying to lead the ANA through its problems and inspire confidence in her "high roller" customers. My friends and relatives in Kalamazoo will never forgive her. Spelling someone's name wrong is as bad as it gets in my book.
One last thing. I have never purchased a coin from her and now would never buy one going forward. She might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I am old-school. You don't bash the organization you managed, especially after you were ineffective in making the positive changes the membership had hoped you would implement.
I look forward to reading the next Hot Topics, maybe a fifth grader will proof-read it before it goes out.
Now - where is that second bottle of Malbec....
Flame away. I really wish I could be more positive but sometimes you just have to speak out. We all want things to get better and for the hobby to grow.
This post is the opinion of Cameonut, not Legend Numismatics or Legend Rare Coin Auctions.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
That must have been some Malbec.
Laura was critical of the ANA before during and after her tenure. She has remained consistent just like her spelling. She and her firm have been great for me personally on the buy and sell side.
Red wine hang overs suck
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
+1
I wasn't going to say anything but since you were honest enough to write it, let me add my voice. This isn't an issue with a quirk of spelling. The level of written English here is shockingly bad. But Cameonut, I fear we're in the minority when it comes to caring about this. To most, we're just the grammar police.
Someone who cares about her should just say 'Send me everything you want to publish and let me proof it'.
As an aside, I wrote to Laura Sperber with a question about collecting from a beginner. I never heard anything back from her. And that's unusual - I've written to a lot of pros and big dealers and I've received a tremendous response rate. I realize she's a very high end pro, but...just a word or two?
@Cameonut What you fail to consider is how hard it is to turn the direction of an organization around when you are in the minority. New ideas are slow to catch on, especially if they are entrenched. I can think of several examples:
Since I cannot bring up what is going on with today's political farce, the next best example I can think of is the ANA Grading Service. Since it began, ANACS has always graded coins for internal records to help identify coins in case of loss. Then they were moved to CO and the ANA decided to have a grading service. As soon as word got out, the other authentication service at the time (INS) started releasing their internal grades used to ID coins for free to their customers. INS change their practices in one day. No, monkey business needed from a board of governors - just several phone calls. Meanwhile, the ANA needed to publish a Coin Grading Guide before they could do what they had been doing internally for years!
Here is another. There is an award given each year by a major publication. They wished for another group to take over the award. They had an offer from FUN to do it but considering the ANA is the national organization that represents collectors they chose to try the ANA first. The publication was basically told that nothing would happen. Well, something did. The ANA formed a committee and sure enough after about a year and a half of nothing, the publication contacted FUN because nothing happened and in a week or two, the program was established again, someone was put in charge, and this year the award was given out just as before.
I hope you'll cut LS a little slack for failing to do as she wished when the alcohol haze wears off.
K is used in the scientific community, G is used in the financial. I always use M for million, my banker uses GG.
As a simple collector, I have no idea what value Ana adds... I know the TPG's, I know their registries, I know the big auction houses, I know forums to chat and ask questions and gain knowledge, yet in 7 years, I have never used an Ana resource or understood what it's purpose is....except for sometimes seeing show reports....just an observation
@Cameonut What you fail to consider is how hard it is to turn the direction of an organization around when you are in the minority. New ideas are slow to catch on, especially if they are entrenched
Good points.
Actually, I do understand how hard it is to make changes when dealing with an organization that won't change. Years ago, I ran for an elected office but ran with three other candidates with similar thoughts on what change was necessary. We ALL got elected by a wide margin and started making changes on day one. We all knew that an individual could not break the "good 'ol boy/girl network". So we broke the network and installed new management. We kept most of the working level people - they were not the problem. They were simply doing what management told them to do.
Perhaps I was too harsh on her. I do give her credit for running for the board and attempting to make some changes. These positions require a ton of personal time and energy and are rarely appreciated. In any event, I am pretty sure we would all agree that change is needed, but that it hasn't happened yet.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Meaningful change will come slow at the ANA, if ever. Governors are elected every 2 years. It's difficult to sustain momentum for new ideas when the leadership turns over so rapidly. In addition, governors are elected by a small fraction of the voting membership based on popularity and not ability to lead a national non-profit educational organization.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
K, G, or GG, it sounds like way to much for that clunker website!
+1. Someone let me know when we get to 100
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Can someone please better explain the concept of a numismatic university? Laura mentions DeVry and University of Phoenix as large examples, and people are taking about accredited degrees, but I can't see any direct relation to numismatics except in a fairy tale. Online classes or modules could certainly make sense, but that doesn't seem to be scope that is being referred to.
Let me try. A place that offers courses on coins. They can be tailored to different fields. For example, a doctorate in Coins of England and the United Kingdom. The Spink Reference would be one of the textbooks. It covers about 150 BC to modern times. Classes would include the history, authentication, grading, identification, coin making techniques and the machinery used, and tokens. Much of the curriculum would be the history of each ruler. et there are several British numismatists who could plan the syllabus and teach the courses. Written papers would be required for the BS, MS, and Phd levels of study. See, just like a regular college.
university of phoenix is a huge scam I don't know about devry but I will go out on a limb and say its horrible too.
And, then these over-educated people with a supposed "PhD" in numismatics would get jobs where and doing what??
Can we create a PhD in underwater basket weaving while we're at it? 
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
How bout Trump university?
In reply to my post about the possible qualifications to get a Phd in a field of numismatics, @brg5658 posted: "And, then these over-educated people with a supposed "PhD" in numismatics would get jobs where and doing what??
Can we create a PhD in underwater basket weaving while we're at it? "
As often is the case, his reply has nothing to do with the reality of my post. Basket weaving? Not funny.
I must have hit a nerve! What do you have against folks who will know more than you ever will about a numismatic field of their choice? Some people much less informed and qualified than you just might like to have a path to knowledge without any intention to get a job in numismatics. BTW, I don't know anyone who considers themselves "over-educated" in our hobby. Do you? I think not...LOL.
PS @Wabbit2313 What do you think of this post? Are you also over educated regarding numismatics?
PPS If I owned an auction company or large dealership I should what folks with a Phd in numismatics>
@brg5658
Hey Brandon, I thought you were a professional numismatist. Since you are not, I understand your comments much better. BTW, I like your photography skills. Perhaps I should have suggested a course of classes to receive a Phd in Photography!
My father (David Lawrence) had a Ph.D (Miami) in Marine Biology and never felt the need to get one in numismatics. Experience trumps formal education in rare coins. However, that said, most everyone can appreciate the benefits of a few institutions offering a genuine degree in this area. However, doing so will not save the ANA financially. Or pay for a month's worth of my Starbucks bill.
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
Pardon my ignorance. Are you going to follow him in the business? Did you hire anyone yet? Do you all still have a coin grading company?
There already are BS, MS and PhD degrees in Photography.
We have had many discussions on here on doctoring and it should be a crime, if it isn't. In my opinion, it is fraud. I do believe that if someone like an Eric Newman or one of the really deep pocketed hedge fund guys made it their life's work to stamp it out, some major strides could be made. I know there are levels and categories of doctoring, but some of them to me are little better than the Chinese factories. If you had the political connections and money to establish and pay for a Numismatic Crimes Bureau at the Secret Service, the tunes might change.
With all the technology changes plus advances in online teaching (see Khan Academy), you could build a library of classes that would eventually lead to an online degree program. I'd likely be willing to pay tuition for a few dozen classes myself. It would also be great to get some of the real experts on tape, teaching this stuff while they are still around.
@shorecoll said: "There already are BS, MS and PhD degrees in Photography."
I know, I took one class college. Then decided to concentrate on something else. My post was to be an "inside joke" for another member. >
He continued: "With all the technology changes plus advances in online teaching (see Khan Academy), you could build a library of classes that would eventually lead to an online degree program. I'd likely be willing to pay tuition for a few dozen classes myself. It would also be great to get some of the real experts on tape, teaching this stuff while they are still around."
Much of the teaching is being done already. Have you ever been to the ANA Summer Seminar? The problem is that no entity has taken on a "real" path to a "real" degree yet. Besides this subject lends itself to a lot of "hands-on" work.
I only know of one Dr. of Numismatics. I'll bet that anyone can go to a college an set up a course of study that would lead to an actual degree. All it should take is money and a BS in history first. Then graduate work through a honest plan of courses + summer intern programs. I'll guarantee that a thread here entitled "After a BS in American history and economics, what course plan would you need to get a Phd in Numismatics" would produce the ideal program.
Pesos would be more in line
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
IMHO as a life member,
The ANA is a typical non profit organization. Those that are already employed keep change from happening.
Presidents and governors have and want limited responsibility.
The executive director has the only real input. If they stray from the path of the old guard, accusations occur, and lawsuits are filed. Sad how much time and money has been wasted.
None of it benefits collectors or numismatics.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set