Hot topics posted

tradedollarnut

http://www.legendnumismatics.com/hot-topics/stick-a-fork-in-it/

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Justacommeman

The lack of imagination of the ANA has always been my biggest pet peeve.

mark

ironmanl63

I think she is a little pissed!

Justacommeman

@ironmanl63 said:
I think she is a little pissed!

You should see her when she is really pissed. I'm a big fan

mark

Coinstartled

"""FINAL COMMENT: the ANA needs to stop with the wasteful PNG Day. Time for the PNG to stop leaching. Yet again it was dead and affected the start of the show. Enough is enough. I can’t stand the PNG and refuse to join them."""

Bravo!

bronco2078

Ugh PNG guardian of coin docs since the first one crawled out from under its rock.

"save the numismatist" That would be a good T-shirt slogan ....... , I found half a dozen issues I forgot about a few months ago and tossed them up on ebay , nobody wants them , if I owned a bird I'd line its cage with them.

2 thumbs up for this hot topic I can't find the thumbs up smiley so fill them in with your imaginations

Zoins

@bronco2078 said:
Ugh PNG guardian of coin docs since the first one crawled out from under its rock.

I've wondered for a long time why nothing can be done about doctors when they are known. It makes some sense if they are being protected as mentioned in the article. If this is the case, kudos to Laura for not joining them.

breakdown

This hot topic has been up for at least a week but I re-read it just now.

Bottom line she has a passion for coins and sees the ANA as stuck in the last century and showing no great signs of changing. Her constant litany of comparing coins to other collectibles and lamenting the backward nature of many coin institutions (like the ANA) shows her heart is in the right place, I think, but also that she is a bit unrealistic. People are not going to shell out the same amount for a 1913 liberty nickel that they do for a Monet. Nor will the ANA show ever compare to Comicon. All of that is okay with me and many of us but it seems to stick in her craw.

I will always read her market reports and hot topics - she huffs and puffs and markets her brand but underneath all that is good information and a genuine love of this hobby that she thinks deserves better from groups like ANA and PNG than what it is getting.

Zoins

I think her recommendations of a Numismatic University and a Registry are good ones. It could be interesting to assemble their classes into a masters program or even a PhD. Kagin, ANA VP, has a PhD of Numismatics and could possibly help with this. As for the Registry, many people here have asked for one so it could be worthwhile to provide.

MrEureka

Easy to complain about lots of things, including the ANA. But when you ask for suggestions, all you usually hear is crickets and cuckoos.

Anyway, I'll ask. What do YOU want from the ANA?

Zoins

@MrEureka said:
Easy to complain about lots of things, including the ANA. But when you ask for suggestions, all you usually hear is crickets and cuckoos.

Anyway, I'll ask. What do YOU want from the ANA?

A lot of reasonable suggestions for the ANA have been posted here:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/984118/per-the-penny-ladys-suggestion-what-would-you-like-to-tell-the-ana-collector-relations-committee

I made the suggestion to create a Collector Relations Committee which led to that thread and I hear one has been created! So there is progress.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/984112/dealers-the-ana-dealer-relations-committee-would-like-your-feedback

stman

Did Legend lady quit as a ANA governor or something? I really am not sure how that shook out.

cameonut2011

@ironmanl63 said:
I think she is a little pissed!

This is the most reserved, measured writing from her I have seen. It makes her message more forceful IMHO. I agree with her 100%. I would love to see both the ANA and PNG be superseded by a coin organization with a backbone that is free of corruption.

cameonut2011

@Justacommeman said:
The lack of imagination of the ANA has always been my biggest pet peeve.

mark

That and its gross incompetence.

dpoole

The greater problem with the ANA is its effective irrelevance.

CCDollar

Very interesting...thanks for posting...
CC

astrorat

@Zoins said:
I think her recommendations of a Numismatic University and a Registry are good ones. It could be interesting to assemble their classes into a masters program or even a PhD. Kagin, ANA VP, has a PhD of Numismatics and could possibly help with this. As for the Registry, many people here have asked for one so it could be worthwhile to provide.

Around 2005-2006, the ANA staff tried to move forward with a numismatic degree program by partnering with Colorado College and Johnson City Community College (through a strong ANA member connection). The ANA Board was utterly apathetic towards the idea, primarily because none of the board members have a clue about how higher education operates ... even those with college degrees.

When I left in 2007, the idea died.

Without a real academic parter, the ANA will never be a "numismatic university." There is much more to becoming a degree-granting institution of higher learning than what the ANA currently has the capacity to do.

ironmanl63

@cameonut2011 said:
This is the most reserved, measured writing from her I have seen.

this is the first time I have red her writings. She is not afraid to say what is on her mind. What I liked about it is that she followed with suggestions. It is easy to criticize but she backs it up with good suggestions. I will have to read some of her old posts.

ScarsdaleCoin

Best one I have read yet and one that I totally agree with 110%.

Furthermore Some conventions use what is known as a turnstile count. This makes sense for something like the NY Auto Show where people walk in, look around, and walk out. Each person gets counted once, and it's pretty accurate.

However, San-Diego Comic-Con counts the same way. They claim to have something lisk 167,000 attendees. But the convention starts Wednesday night with preview night. IF you buy a full pass for all the days, they count you five times! There are not 167,000 unique human beings there. Same with ANA collectors go in each day so the actual numbers are barely 1,000 unique visitors. When shows like PAX sell 50,000 tickets at $100 a pop the ANA numbers are pathetic.

Either reinvent and start thinking out of the box or watch this show fade away in a few years.

Lot of good people do want to help. Time to wake up ANA

Boosibri

"With numbers as disgraceful as that, its time to pack it in. This show was supposed to be the biggest numismatic event of the year. I don’t think on a bad day of a small comic-con held in a place like Kalmazoo would even have numbers that pathetic."

For the record, its Kalamazoo, my home town, and to my knowledge there has never been a comic-con held there. But if there was I think Laura would be correct.

BruceS

I think it was meant to be an anloagy. But point taking. A comicon anywhere blows away any ANA event by a magnitude of 100.

@Boosibri said:
"With numbers as disgraceful as that, its time to pack it in. This show was supposed to be the biggest numismatic event of the year. I don’t think on a bad day of a small comic-con held in a place like Kalmazoo would even have numbers that pathetic."

For the record, its Kalamazoo, my home town, and to my knowledge there has never been a comic-con held there. But if there was I think Laura would be correct.

Boosibri

@BruceS said:
I think it was meant to be an anloagy. But point taking. A comicon anywhere blows away any ANA event by a magnitude of 100.

@Boosibri said:
"With numbers as disgraceful as that, its time to pack it in. This show was supposed to be the biggest numismatic event of the year. I don’t think on a bad day of a small comic-con held in a place like Kalmazoo would even have numbers that pathetic."

For the record, its Kalamazoo, my home town, and to my knowledge there has never been a comic-con held there. But if there was I think Laura would be correct.

Yep, I got it. More kidding that there is no such place as Kalmazoo, it's Kalamazoo.

BruceS

Yeah, Laura's not known for her writing skills, But got to love her passion for the hobby.

@Boosibri said:

@BruceS said:
I think it was meant to be an anloagy. But point taking. A comicon anywhere blows away any ANA event by a magnitude of 100.

@Boosibri said:
"With numbers as disgraceful as that, its time to pack it in. This show was supposed to be the biggest numismatic event of the year. I don’t think on a bad day of a small comic-con held in a place like Kalmazoo would even have numbers that pathetic."

For the record, its Kalamazoo, my home town, and to my knowledge there has never been a comic-con held there. But if there was I think Laura would be correct.

Yep, I got it. More kidding that there is no such place as Kalmazoo, it's Kalamazoo.

HandH

@tradedollarnut said:
http://www.legendnumismatics.com/hot-topics/stick-a-fork-in-it/

Good for you Laura, to stand up for what you believe despite the headwinds. I applaud.

AUandAG

20 years ago I joined the ANA, 19 years ago I quit. I have not regretted it one bit. What I expected 20 years ago still is not being done today. It should be an "ONLINE" go to for information, online books, online references, etc. This organization should have completed with Ebay and could have done it better (still not too late in my opinion).
I'll wait to join again,
bob

Justacommeman

.

Justacommeman

.

Justacommeman

@Boosibri said:

@BruceS said:
I think it was meant to be an anloagy. But point taking. A comicon anywhere blows away any ANA event by a magnitude of 100.

@Boosibri said:
"With numbers as disgraceful as that, its time to pack it in. This show was supposed to be the biggest numismatic event of the year. I don’t think on a bad day of a small comic-con held in a place like Kalmazoo would even have numbers that pathetic."

For the record, its Kalamazoo, my home town, and to my knowledge there has never been a comic-con held there. But if there was I think Laura would be correct.

Yep, I got it. More kidding that there is no such place as Kalmazoo, it's Kalamazoo.

@BruceS said:
Yeah, Laura's not known for her writing skills, But got to love her passion for the hobby.

@Boosibri said:

@BruceS said:
I think it was meant to be an anloagy. But point taking. A comicon anywhere blows away any ANA event by a magnitude of 100.

@Boosibri said:
"With numbers as disgraceful as that, its time to pack it in. This show was supposed to be the biggest numismatic event of the year. I don’t think on a bad day of a small comic-con held in a place like Kalmazoo would even have numbers that pathetic."

For the record, its Kalamazoo, my home town, and to my knowledge there has never been a comic-con held there. But if there was I think Laura would be correct.

Yep, I got it. More kidding that there is no such place as Kalmazoo, it's Kalamazoo.

I lived in Kzoo. Half the residents don't know how to spell it

m

Boosibri

I lived in Kzoo. Half the residents don't know how to spell it

m

Known for its great beer and crappy winters

Zoins

Joining the Kalamazoo Numismatic Club might help with the spelling.

http://www.michcoin.com/kalamazoo.html

Justacommeman

Bell's Brewey baby

m

Boosibri

@Justacommeman said:
Bell's Brewey baby

m

There are probably 20 breweries in town now and some craft distilleries opening.

Bells still is the best by miles.

MrEureka

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Ugh PNG guardian of coin docs since the first one crawled out from under its rock.

I've wondered for a long time why nothing can be done about doctors when they are known. It makes some sense if they are being protected as mentioned in the article. If this is the case, kudos to Laura for not joining them.

Coin doctors are not being protected by anyone, nor do they need protection, because coin doctoring is not illegal.

amwldcoin

WOW! For the 1st time I agree with Laura 100%! I'm really on board with doing away with PNG day!

BillJones

PNG day ...

As a dealer I went on a buying trip to my one and only Central States show. The day I was there the bourse floor was 85% closed because it was PNG day. It was so frustrating! There were dealers there with whom I usually did business, and their hands were tied because the PNG had a monopoly on doing business.

What a silly idea!

I stopped going to the ANA shows years ago unless they were within driving distance. My experience has been that the dealers were in a bad mood because they had to spend so much money to be there. I went to the Winter ANA this year, which was in Orlando. It had the look and feel of run-of-the-mill regional show. The inventory selection was not very good, and business looked slow to me.

The Winter FUN show runs circles around both of ANA shows. FUN goes out of its way to treat the dealers well. I remember one year when there was a huge snowstorm in the Northeast. A lot of dealers were trapped because their flights were canceled. A couple of dealers I knew couldn’t leave until Wednesday after the show closed on Sunday. FUN picked up the tab to keep the security room open so that dealers could have their inventory protected during that period. You would never see the ANA doing that. No way, no how.

BillyKingsley

I can't attend the shows as I can't travel that far for health reasons, so that is a non-issue for me. I have begged and pleaded for photos of the displays, not stuff for sale but exhibits, both to the magazine and on this very forum, and have been ignored every. Single. Time. I've given up. It's obvious that no one really cares so why waste the time?

I maintain my ANA membership for the magazine. It's the only one that is actually about coins/currency and not what you can sell them for. But it is flawed. They devote page after page to what some mint employee said in 1836, (perhaps a slight exaggeration, but not by much) yet each issue limits scholarly articles about world coins and currency to a page and a half each. I would much rather see more on those topics and less minutiae about the inner workings of the mint, or speculation about who may have engraved what.

To simplify, I just don't really care about anything other than the finished project, ie, a coin or note. I could not care less what something sold for, now or at any time in the past. Just tell me about the thing. What is the significance of the design? Did it play any specific role in history? What was the mintage, and how many are known to survive? That is what I want to know.

Unfortunately I do not have the knowledge to write articles myself. I'm a generalist, I like to get knowledge of various different things, rather than limit myself to only one and miss out on all the rest. It means my opportunity for writing articles for the magazine is limited. Not to brag but I have been published multiple times in a magazine for a different hobby, but I'm a lot more knowledgeable in that hobby. I do have an idea for one article for the Numismatist but I can't afford the costs required to research it, which is $600. It's either that or the medicine that keeps me alive, medicine wins every time.

ricko

Great article. I have enjoyed Laura's articles for many years. Any business person can see the excellent points she is making about promotion and growth. It would appear that the ANA is a dying organization that will vanish due to it's inability to see the future and evolve. Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN

@stman said:
Did Legend lady quit as a ANA governor or something? I really am not sure how that shook out.

I believe that her term expired.

PTVETTER

I have spoke with a number of ANA board members about the registry set to include the past president in person or on the phone.
There seems to be a big resistant to this idea?
Funding is there response,
I believe if they look they will find the funding, but it does not serve the board or staff only the members.

mercurydimeguy

@MrEureka said:
What do YOU want from the ANA?

Come up with a new standard of grading to replace the current standard, and work with Industry to effect a transition. Thereafter, become the governing body of the new standard. Since the advent of the Internet, so much more information is available at people's fingertips, and how people go about collecting coins (and buying/selling) has also changed. It's time for disruptive innovation to catch up to numismatics...

Zoins

@MrEureka said:

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Ugh PNG guardian of coin docs since the first one crawled out from under its rock.

I've wondered for a long time why nothing can be done about doctors when they are known. It makes some sense if they are being protected as mentioned in the article. If this is the case, kudos to Laura for not joining them.

Coin doctors are not being protected by anyone, nor do they need protection, because coin doctoring is not illegal.

It is against the PNG Code of Ethics. Are there consequences when members violate that or is that not enforced? Or is no one violating that?

TPRC

Interesting article. I had not read much about her specific frustrations, or more accurately, her specific ideas and frustrations with the response, before this. It's a start. But I would have preferred to have her stay on and continue the fight instead of throwing in the towel.

Zoins

@TPRC said:
Interesting article. I had not read much about her specific frustrations, or more accurately, her specific ideas and frustrations with the response, before this. It's a start. But I would have preferred to have her stay on and continue the fight instead of throwing in the towel.

In general, it can be difficult for one person to make major change. You may need a slate of people that end up with a majority.

Shamika

#2 My pet idea and biggest peeve. The greatest source of revenue is right in front of them waiting to happen. Create an open Registry Set program all collectors can participate in. Think about it, it would make them relevant to thousands of collectors instantly ( I think there are 100,000+ registry sets between PCGS and NGC). There would also be significant ad revenue and many other benefits. I mentioned this to a few people on the board-ONLY Don Kagin is trying to work on it. He has asked me to help but I have no time or energy to do so.

See, I have a problem with this statement. Throwing out new ideas is important. But implementing those ideas is where the real work has to be done and here she is saying she won't do it. I'm sure Don Kagin has little time and energy as well and yet he's actually committing himself to actually do something.

MrEureka

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Ugh PNG guardian of coin docs since the first one crawled out from under its rock.

I've wondered for a long time why nothing can be done about doctors when they are known. It makes some sense if they are being protected as mentioned in the article. If this is the case, kudos to Laura for not joining them.

Coin doctors are not being protected by anyone, nor do they need protection, because coin doctoring is not illegal.

It is against the PNG Code of Ethics. Are there consequences when members violate that or is that not enforced? Or is no one violating that?

For the PNG to act, someone would have to file a complaint against a coin doctor. (I don't think anyone has actually done that yet, but I'd suggest that Laura should. ) If appropriate, I presume the PNG might order restitution or expel the member. Either way, the doctor would likely continue with business as usual.

MrEureka

@mercurydimeguy said:

@MrEureka said:
What do YOU want from the ANA?

Come up with a new standard of grading to replace the current standard, and work with Industry to effect a transition. Thereafter, become the governing body of the new standard. Since the advent of the Internet, so much more information is available at people's fingertips, and how people go about collecting coins (and buying/selling) has also changed. It's time for disruptive innovation to catch up to numismatics...

I'm open to a new standard, but I'd suggest that it should not be implemented until coins are graded by machines. At that point, it will be time for a clear break with the past, and an effective invalidation of all prior assigned grades.

Zoins

@MrEureka said:

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:
Ugh PNG guardian of coin docs since the first one crawled out from under its rock.

I've wondered for a long time why nothing can be done about doctors when they are known. It makes some sense if they are being protected as mentioned in the article. If this is the case, kudos to Laura for not joining them.

Coin doctors are not being protected by anyone, nor do they need protection, because coin doctoring is not illegal.

It is against the PNG Code of Ethics. Are there consequences when members violate that or is that not enforced? Or is no one violating that?

For the PNG to act, someone would have to file a complaint against a coin doctor. (I don't think anyone has actually done that yet, but I'd suggest that Laura should. ) If appropriate, I presume the PNG might order restitution or expel the member. Either way, the doctor would likely continue with business as usual.

I believe Laura wrote a couple of cases have been brought to the PNG to no avail on a previous Hot Topics. Perhaps she can mention this again.

Zoins

On a more fundamental note, recently I've started to wonder if the ANA's management structure is not conducive to progress. It seems like too much of the strategy work and direction for the organization is driven by rotating President, VP and Governors. This is very unlike a corporation that has a board of directors to give senior executives advice but the executives are the ones managing and directing the organization.

JohnF

I really disagree with the negative dissent of the ANA. It's so unproductive. I have been a life member for over 25 years and I feel very strongly that the ANA speaks for us as a hobby. The ANA has certainly suffered mis-steps over the past decade or so, maybe longer, I really don't know. What I do know is that the organization's mandate is purely to help advance our hobby. Period. Why would we trash this organization?? We should do all that we can to HELP it!

Okay, this summer's show could have been better attended. I've seen the numbers and I was at the event. However, it was a beautiful show from the aesthetic. The U.S. Mint was out in full force as well as all the major U.S. dealers and auction companies.

PNG day has always been controversial. The reason this event keeps happening (for better or worse) is simple. PNG pays the ANA a good amount of money for the privilege and enough PNG dealers support the event with table fees. In other words, it's purely economic, and the ANA needs all the economic help it can get.

Just to circle back here, there's simply no benefit to us (as a collector/dealer group) to do anything but support the ANA. If you don't want to support it, just sit on your hands. But to trash the organization has no place in my book. Our hobby is in real need of growth, from children to senior citizens. We should all do our best to sign up anyone who collects coins and doesn't belong. There is strength in numbers and ANA needs numbers.

Finally, I think it would be equally devastating to our hobby if the ANA were to drop the Summer Worlds Fair of Money show. The show has been, and still is, the most important numismatic event of the year and it really matters. Does it matter if 100,000 people show up or 10,000? Yes. But just stuffing a bunch of uninterested high school kids through the door won't improve our hobby. I'd rather see 8,500 really serious coin collectors than 50,000 people in Darth Vader costumes. From what I'm told there is very little money spent on "real" collectibles at comi-con. It's really just a party atmosphere. That's cool too, but coin dealers travel across the country to make money, cover expenses, etc, not just show off their inventory.

John

p.s. Laura's ideas of University and registry are worth consideration, but I don't think either one is a silver bullet. I see very little economic return for the University. Don't they sort of do this with Summer seminar?? Didn't someone else try the University thing??? I think PNG tried something and all I heard was crickets...

MrEureka

I'm trying to undestand the rationale for the ANA doing a registry. Considering the ANA's limited resources, Isnt that a job best left to private firms? Or is this something the ANA can do better than anyone else?