DEALERS: The ANA Dealer Relations Committee would like your feedback
ThePennyLady
Posts: 4,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
As many of you know, I am the Chair for the ANA Dealer's Relation Committee and we are charged with providing comments and feedback to the board on ways to improve the ANA shows as it relates to dealers. Our committee is made up of representatives from Heritage, Stacks Bowers, small and large dealers, and paper money and foreign coin dealers.
Just so you know, there is a separate committee that deals with feedback from collectors, so no disrespect intended whatsoever to all you collectors, but for this post, I am specifically looking for ideas on how shows can be improved from a DEALER'S PERSPECTIVE.
Here are some questions we'd like feedback on, but feel free to comment on other areas not mentioned:
Would the ANA and its members be better served by choosing an anchor city (such as Rosemont) to avoid taxes and nexus issues?
Do you think the ANA should offer dealers more educational opportunities/seminars before and/or after shows that are specifically focused on dealers such as Chinese counterfeits, ecommerce, photography, numismatic law, marketing, etc.?
Should the ANA consider local tax issues when choosing cities (keep in mind, the list will be short on venues without tax issues)?
What are your thoughts on the Dealer listing on ANA website, any ideas on improvement?
Any other ideas on improving the shows for dealers?
I will gather any feedback I receive and present it to our committee for discussion at our meeting in Denver next month. If any of you prefer not to comment publicly, please feel free to send me a PM or an email at charmy@thepennylady.com. Thank you.
Comments
What is the committee for collectors? The ANA committee list doesn't seem to list one.
Here's the ANA committee list: https://www.money.org/ana-committees
There is an Education & YN committee but I don't think that's the same as Collector Relations.
The Conventions Committee is where collectors can give feedback: "The Convention Committee facilitates the work of the convention(s) under the direction of the Executive Director and/or Conventions Director [Bylaws: Article X, Section 2]. It serves to provide feedback and/or perceptions from the general public, membership, and local convention committees on the National Money Show and World's Fair of Money conventions."
Larry Gaye is the Chair - you can contact him here: lgaius.larry@gmail.com
The Penny Lady®
The committee for collectors to provide feedback to the ANA is specific to the National Money Show and World's Fair of Money conventions?
This is the description of the Dealer Relations Committee:
It seems like it would be nice to have a Collector Relations Committee with a similar description:
Yes, and that is the same for the Dealer Relations Committee - we are seeking feedback on how to make the ANA shows better (in this case, from a dealer's perspective) which is the main issue that is relevant to ANA dealers.
Perhaps, Zoins, you might consider ontacting the ANA and volunteering to help the Conventions Committee, or even suggest forming a new committee as you mention.
The Penny Lady®
RE: "The Collector Relations Committee provides the Association feedback and recommendations with regard to issues relevant to the collector community."
Ahhh, but isn't that too much like following the letter and spirit of the ANA Charter? The present management does not appear to have much interest in supporting and advocating for collectors.....but this is a 40-year old problem.
I'll ask one of my ANA committee contacts about what it would take to create a Collector Relations Committee in our next discussion. We've had a number of conversations about making the ANA more collector focused and this could be an interesting idea to support that. I'm also interested in learning more about driving collector membership growth and the Board's views on this topic.
That's a great idea Zoins.
RogerB, as I suggested to Zoins, perhaps you might consider contacting the ANA and offering your help and ideas on how to improve things.
I know the collectors have plenty of feedback on the ANA shows, but PLEASE, as I stated above, could we keep this post on topic from the DEALER's perspective. Feel free to start a separate thread on collectors' ideas.
The Penny Lady®
I like to see more ANA shows near me. I am in the SE. I have a dealer friend in Birmingham who has been preaching the choir to me about a new center that sounds like it might meet the ANA's requirements for a show In Birmingham,Al. PM me if you want more info! I have urged him to contact the ANA but hasn't yet!
Charmy, for the dealer feedback questions you have, have you thought about creating a survey? It could make collecting and managing feedback easier. You can build a simple one using SurveyMonkey or Google Forms.
RE: "RogerB, as I suggested to Zoins, perhaps you might consider contacting the ANA and offering your help and ideas on how to improve things."
Enough suggestions have been made and on so many occasions that it is clear neither the Board nor Executive have any interest in change that is beneficial to collectors -- unless money is involved. However, per your suggestion, a new topic thread has been opened on Zoins committee subject.
I am NOT a dealer. However, I will try to look at it from both the perspective of dealers and collectors.
Fan of the Oxford Comma
CCAC Representative of the General Public
2021 Young Numismatist of the Year
Yes, local tax issues are important. And I'm OK with having conventions in the same cities, over and over again.
Still, it's important to use cities that will draw collectors and allow dealers to enjoy their nights. Rosemont does not cut it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
With the auctions and PNG Day, the ANA convention is already long enough.
Educational seminars for dealers are a great idea, but not at the ANA convention. A few days in Colorado Springs in November would be just fine.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Any other thoughts?
The Penny Lady®
Another option is to offer an optional day for classes. Many conferences have optional, paid training days before or after the official conference for those that want them. This way, people can get training when it's convenient time and schedule wise, not at a single time.
"Would the ANA and its members be better served by choosing an anchor city (such as Rosemont) to avoid taxes and nexus issues?"
I like the idea of anchor cities... Three in rotation for 30 years... West coast, mid west and east cost. Cities with great airports, low taxes lots of history, lots of night life.
"Do you think the ANA should offer dealers more educational opportunities/seminars before and/or after shows that are specifically focused on dealers such as Chinese counterfeits, ecommerce, photography, numismatic law, marketing, etc.?"
Yes, Education is always needed for dealers especially. Maybe the idea would be to get the dealers to go by giving them a start every time one is attended and after 10 stars you get free table fees for one show.
One idea for improving the show (and maybe this already exists). Offer appraisals for one item or a small group of coins up to 5 for a small fee that is given to charity. The appraisers could not make an offer to purchase. Advertise it to draw people to the show.
I would suggest that if the ANA continues to hold a PNG/ANA day, convention auctioneers should be required to begin lot viewing at least one day earlier.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
What about showing which classes a dealer has passed or how many stars a dealer has on the ANA website dealer member directory? This probably won't matter for large national dealers, but could help up and coming dealers establish themselves.
in the title of this thread, the OP solicited responses from DEALERS.
Rotate cities.
Do NOT rotate cities. Rosemont has proved again and again to be the least-worst location. Will 25% of ANA members show up?
Rotate the Winter ANA show. They are never more than major regionals at best. Will 7% of ANA members show up? Talk to FUN President Randy Campbell about how ANA butchered a show at bullet-proof Orlando this year.
Do NOT charge the public. Sign at the badge booth says
"The World's Fair of Money Welcomes You.
Free Admission - Free Commemorative Medals - Free E-Membership 18-under
Table with dealer's 9yr-old with social media skills and a seasoned 17yr-old YN -------->"
Every new retail customer is offered a free dealer-paid 1-year ANA E-Membership with their first transaction. ANA sends a confirmatory e-mail of welcome.
I am thinking quite a bit along the lines of what the Colonel has written on this topic.
1) Do not charge the public to enter.
2) Use an anchor or branding city or convention center. In my opinion, Rosemont is easy to dump on, but tough to get better than given its proximity to population, ease of access by major airport and airlines, quick access by car via major interstate, relatively clean, quiet and low key atmosphere and plentiful as well as physically attached hotels and hotel rooms. Sure, it isn't exactly exotic, but I attend the ANA to do a business show under secure circumstances and do not care to partake in a vacation-business hybrid. In other words; we don't have a better bad idea and this is our best bad option, by far.
3) Make the pre-show/show/auctions shorter instead of longer.
4) Don't have the US Mint release coins or issues while the show is in progress and definitely not at the show. This obviously takes coordination with the TPGs and US Mint, but the cluster-you-know-what we saw at Rosemont in 2014 should never be repeated.
5) Rotate the winter shows throughout the country as these truly are no better than a decent regional.
6) Consider relaxing the square footage needed by reducing the amount of space for educational displays. This is going to read like heresy, but it is pretty darn rare for me to interact with someone who says they actually spent considerable and valuable convention time looking through the displays. If they are currently underutilized, which I believe to be the case for many years, then reduce them so that more convention sites and cities might come into play. This appears to be a sticking point for the ANA, but we keep being asked about the same issues and this one point might change the dynamic entirely. Is it worth having the premiere ANA show have problems when a largely ignored subsection of it might help solve those problems?
7) Be aware of tax and nexus issues for dealers.
Lastly, I have given this input for many years and we still have these questions. Does my input just typically stink or are there other factors in play?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
[Three fundamental questions for Ms. Harker's committee: What does the ANA want out of a coin show and/or the annual convention? What do participating dealers want from the ANA's shows? What is the role of non-collectors in an ANA show/convention? If the committee does not have solid answers to these questions, then suggestions cannot be evaluated for maximum benefit.]
(in brackets because I'm neither dealer nor collector.)
Thank you for your comments and suggestions, you all have some good ideas and I really appreciate your taking the time to post them. Our committee will discuss these suggestions and others, and then present them to the ANA Board to consider. The ANA Board (whom the members elected) will then decide whether implementing them is warranted and feasible. Many times, it's a matter of budget and manpower as to whether certain changes can be made.
The location of the ANA Shows is always a hotly debated topic, and finding a location that fits the ANA's requirements is not an easy task whatsoever. There are so many issues that need to be considered, including, among others, these:
It is my understanding that the ANA's main mandate in putting on its shows is numismatic education. But their shows certainly need to be successful in order to keep the ANA running. And the ANA knows that it takes both dealers and collectors to make a show successful. As far as what do dealers want from the ANA shows, of course they want the shows to be successful with lots of collectors in attendance looking to buy coins, which in turn allows them to keep running their business. And that's exactly what our committee is trying to do - to help make the ANA shows successful.
And what do collectors want? They want to find good quality material to fill their collections, educational programs so they can learn more, and a place to meet with their fellow collector friends. With the internet and quality websites with even higher quality photos, collector attendance at shows is declining. Collectors can learn and do research on the internet and they can find quality coins directly from dealers' websites and auction house websites. They can also socialize in chat rooms such as this one negating the need to meet up with their fellow collector friends in person. Coin clubs are dying and shows may not be far behind unless we (dealers, collectors, and those who run shows) figure out ways to not just keep them alive, but to thrive and draw collectors who actually want to come and attend the shows.
So here i am doing what I can to help keep our ANA shows alive. I joined a committee and am soliciting information and ideas so we can try and figure out what will work. Of course everyone has their own ideas on how to improve shows, some will work, some simply won't. If you, as a dealer or collector, want to help keep coin collecting and coin shows alive, the best thing you can do is to take your time, ideas, and talents and VOLUNTEER. There are so many opportunities on the local, regional and national level. Every numismatic organization can use help, all you have to do is pick one and GIVE YOUR TIME.
The Penny Lady®
I appreciate your efforts on this, but being implored to volunteer for the ANA or the ANA cause opens up a door for perhaps more radical ideas, in my opinion.
First, and going back to what I wrote previously, the square footage dedicated to numismatic exhibits far exceeds the utilization of that space. In a perfect world this would not matter. However, we are not in a perfect world and that square footage dictates a certain lower limit where the ANA will not consider a venue and, by extension, a city or region. The square footage requirement forces the ANA to attempt to procure larger halls, to avoid some cities and to make itself less attractive to convention halls given its admittedly tiny concession sales. This one item would go a long way to opening up other cities and venues. On a slight tangent to this idea, and to support my thoughts on underutilized space, I have an email list of clients who have asked to receive an email when I have new coins on the site. It goes out about once per month and coincides with the conclusion of larger shows. I can see the hits that each page gets and my educational writings, which are generally quite good, receive paltry numbers of hits compared to my inventory. Even the lowest viewed coin in new inventory swamps the numbers of page hits that a well written article on numismatics receives. To me, this is pretty good evidence that education is not always the most desired thing that is associated with these shows.
Additionally, perhaps the ANA could sponsor educational meet-and-greet type dinners? That is, the ANA could book a room and arrange for a few dealers to attend who would be happy to interact with collectors and other dealers and who might benefit from the interaction by gaining new clients and/or sales. It might be set up like Heritage runs an auction where there is a catered hot buffet on the side and one person introduces the topic at-hand. It might utilize an auction setting with chairs facing a dais, a rectangular group of tables, a circular discussion setting or mingling like a cocktail party. Folks (dealers and/or collectors) could ask questions of one another regarding the night's topic. Maybe these could last one or two hours after the bourse closes and could run while the nightly auctions are running. In today's world it isn't necessary to attend an auction to bid, so this will impact most folks only slightly. The ANA could sponsor one or two of these events per show and they might be themed like "collecting classic commems" or "Barber and Seated coinage" or "modern coinage" and such. I suggest this because whenever I attend these shows there are myriad folks who reach out to me beforehand to ask all sorts of numismatic questions in person and if I met with each of them I would never attend the bourse.
Lastly, and perhaps most radically, do we need an ANA convention every year? Truly, we are over-showed already. Do we really need summer FUN? How about summer Baltimore? I realize neither of these are ANA shows, but there are others, as well, that look to me more like revenue producers for the organizers rather than selling and buying shows for dealers and the public. If the ANA scaled back on the number of shows or did a two-years-on-one-year-off scenario then more people would be driven to attend when the show is on. In today's world we have seen the internet take over commerce. Certainly, we have witnessed brick and mortar shops hurt by ebay where old collections no longer generally go back to the coin dealer, but are now sold directly to others. While this is neither a good nor a bad thing, in general, it has rocked this segment. Also, the importance of attending shows has diminished greatly to many collectors. After all, why use vacation time and spend all these funds to attend a show when you can be on a dealer email list and see all the new purchases within a few days after the conclusion? Maybe we are just at the point where all the ANA shows are no longer viable, but where a winnowing out of them is needed.
Perhaps those associated with the ANA need to work smarter instead of harder?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The Colonel is spot on.