So I gather from what I read, that you feel the 2017 gold unc. Lion's Club will be the new key. So we should all act accordingly... I am thinking of taking you up on this bet, but I am not sure when the Long Beach Show is.
Goldminers ... I'm going thirsty here with the lack of bets!!
You can buy me that beer at any Florida FUN show as well or other shows I let you know I'll be at in 2018. Also, beers are transferable to my son Justin. How's that?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
Goldminers ... I'm going thirsty here with the lack of bets!!
You can buy me that beer at any Florida FUN show as well or other shows I let you know I'll be at in 2018. Also, beers are transferable to my son Justin. How's that?
Wondercoin
I will take that bet and include a craft beer for Justin, and Monster Coin Mart, who have provided me with some nice new coins lately. This bet probably requires waiting till the end of 2017, but chances are I will be on this site, and you will be too, be sure to remind me one way or the other, in a year.
So, if wondercoins daughter kept 5 it would be the low( just don't see it being that big of a difference!) Good job now get on the phone and return return Mortimer!
If there are any low mintage gold commemoratives coming up in the future, I'm sure our good friend Tom B will alert us so we can also benefit from getting a low mintage coin with investment potential.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Raufus: Yes, I agree that it could still be a winner even though it is (possibly) unseated later. After all, while it is the low coin mintage, the coins will trade as such. And, even if the coin is a "close second" to some other coin, the mintage is low enough to potentially generate interest in the coin anyway. The only "wild card" in my opinion is the impact of the incredibly low mintage Gold Spouse Commems on this whole situation. Will future collectors who "missed the boat" on both the low mintage (5,000) $5 coins as well as the low mintage (2,000) $10 coins be excited to "pay up" for the 5,000 mintage stuff instead of the 2,000 mintage stuff? Big question.
My "hunch" is the coin does come in slightly lower than Jackie. Obviously, I could almost make that happen alone by simply asking my daughter to return to the Mint most of her coins she purchased. I doubt I will suggest to her to return too many, if any. But, how hard is it for a few dozen coins to "fall through"? Not too hard - right?
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Don't see any redirection of dedicated coin dollars spent on centennial golds this year happening again 17. Commemorative sales in 17 should be robust unless the Mint comes up with a rabbit.
@jessewvu said:
Did you guys make all the money you hoped to?
You have to give us more than 3 days.
The mint will give us the updated numbers next Tuesday at 5:00ET.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@wondercoin said:
My daughter ordered (27) of these because she got a challenge from AMEX to spend $10,000 in a couple months to earn a bonus 100,000 points! So, now she has (27) of these on the way PLUS a business class ticket round trip to Singapore and Thailand in March on (one of) the best airlines in the world (worth $5,000 or $6,000). A good deal for her to be sure!
But, I will happily "bet" forum members here a craft beer at a Long Beach coin show that when 2017 Gold Commems are also taken into account, this MS Gold National park will NOT be the series mintage low coin. Who's ready to put a craft beer on the line at a Long Beach show? Just send me a PM to lock in our "bets". You must be 21 years of age "to play" and to buy me that beer though
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
That would be a very tempting 'bet'.... I enjoy sampling a good craft beer regardless of whether I won a 'bet' or not! But, very doubtful I will be at the show so a mote point.
I think it will be unlikely the 2017 gold commem offering will come in at lower numbers, just because of the fact this last issue caught the general collecting public by surprise. After more publicity in Coin World or other avenues, promotions, etc., many more will be preparing for the next issue, ensuring the mintage will be exceeded even if the design is a 'challenged' one. That trend seems to happen after a key date comes out in many instances, and can result in increased sales for years before another one comes up to catch everyone by surprise again.
So IMO, if the Parks issues comes in lower than Jackie, that could hold for awhile. But who knows?? The trend is certainly towards lower and lower numbers....
Its the lower mintage number plus demand that makes the price rise, if that is the goal for these issues for "you". I think demand may be slacking off for these 5$ gold commemorative issues but it could come back who knows. I think it is cool to have coin with Teddy and John Muir on it. And as a back packer I have always loved our national parks. Parks that almost didn't exist if certain politicians had their way back then...
There were two $5 gold available in 2016. Next year there will only be one. Also, no gold mercs, SLQ's or WLH's in 2017. More funds freed up for collectors. Seems like a slam dunk bet to me but I've been wrong before.
92vette ... The 2 vs 1 argument is a solid one to be sure. But, on the other hand, as I have been saying for years now, don't discount the possible future popularity of MINTAGE 2,000 $10 Gold Commems over the mintage 5,000 $5 Gold Commems. IMHO, that reality contributed to the Nat'l Park $5 having a solid shot to detrone Jackie and future $5 Commems perhaps seeing even lower mintages. Jackie dropped from $2,500 to $700 in MS69 in recent years for a reason (and I lost a bunch of money on each and every piece I still have in stock) and I would argue that reason was, in strong part, the super low mintage Spouse Gold Commem series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Oh I agree, the spouses and the burnished & PR plats have completely changed the definition of low-mintage. I'm personally betting huge on certain spouses for way down the road (I'm thinking 8-12 years out). I just think the fact that the $5 unc will hurt less for the collector to buy will push it over the top. Cheers
Very good point. The mint could pull 2015 spouse coins at any moment now. For example, The sale number of lady bird Johnson unc. Gold is only about 1720. Also the spouse key will be known for sure soon. But the $5 key will likely change every few years.
Anyway, I see at least 100 return next week. After that price may spike but soon will level off. Bottom line, next couple of weeks may be a good time window to sell.
@wondercoin said:
92vette ... The 2 vs 1 argument is a solid one to be sure. But, on the other hand, as I have been saying for years now, don't discount the possible future popularity of MINTAGE 2,000 $10 Gold Commems over the mintage 5,000 $5 Gold Commems. IMHO, that reality contributed to the Nat'l Park $5 having a solid shot to detrone Jackie and future $5 Commems perhaps seeing even lower mintages. Jackie dropped from $2,500 to $700 in MS69 in recent years for a reason (and I lost a bunch of money on each and every piece I still have in stock) and I would argue that reason was, in strong part, the super low mintage Spouse Gold Commem series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. -M. Friedman
My budget was really stretched out with the gold Centennials and the first spouses in 2016. I will be quite happy to see fewer Mint offerings like the spouses. These 10 year programs have a lot of interest at the beginning and then mintages usually die. Yes, I have been getting a few spouses lately, as no one knows what the Mint will do, and they could pull them all any day making several extremely low mintages (unless Wondercoin's daughter buys a few hundred of each this week). I also got burned on the Jackie Robinson along with almost all commemoratives I have ever purchased. One coin that I think is interesting for 2017 is the $100 gold 225th Anniversary of Liberty. The initial design drawing did not impress me all that much as I was not sure how the coin would actually turn out, but the picture of the actual high relief coin itself looked really good to me and some of my budget will be for it.
For this year, the Mint seems to be frequently mentioning April 2nd is the 225th anniversary. In fact, they have a 'clock' noting the number of days left until the anniversary. Have they announced some kind of special promotion for this event? Seems like they are planning something given the countdown....
I think one of the things leading to lower sales are collectors personal budgets and a non increasing gold trend. These days more are getting squeezed by higher taxes/costs and stagnant or lowering wages. With a pro growth President in the works we may see stronger buying in the next years and higher mintages.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
@tincup said:
For this year, the Mint seems to be frequently mentioning April 2nd is the 225th anniversary. In fact, they have a 'clock' noting the number of days left until the anniversary. Have they announced some kind of special promotion for this event? Seems like they are planning something given the countdown....
So were the coins sold by eparks already tallied as sold by the US Mint? I would think if some were supplied to the US Mint they would have been considered sold? If not, I wonder how many more could be added to final numbers from this source.
So were the coins sold by eparks already tallied as sold by the US Mint? I would think if some were supplied to the US Mint they would have been considered sold? If not, I wonder how many more could be added to final numbers from this source.
eparks is not associated with the US Mint. Their stash was sold to them by the Mint and is part of the Mint's totals.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
How is inventory at the Mint's gift shops reported on the weekly sales figures? Do the sales figures reflect coins actually sold by the gift shops or do they include coins still for sale there? This could affect the final outcome.
@92vette said:
Oh I agree, the spouses and the burnished & PR plats have completely changed the definition of low-mintage. I'm personally betting huge on certain spouses for way down the road (I'm thinking 8-12 years out). I just think the fact that the $5 unc will hurt less for the collector to buy will push it over the top. Cheers
Now im curious. Which spouses? The 4 coin subset or the soon to be Queen?
If they'd done a Franklin Half dollar style rendition of the Liberty Bell on the reverse of the 2017 UHR Gold coin I'd be all over it. The eagle looks so.. phoned in.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
Exactly, the people who bought at the end will be selling into the market and holding down prices. Had it come in 500 below JR it would be a different story, but they are close to tied. Anyone who bought a lot of these has an incentive to return some of them so it comes in below JR, or else it will be just another second ran coin.
Unfortunately... My three gold uncs. did arrive and although I really wanted to send some back, there just was not really anything I could see wrong with them, so they are with our hosts for grading.
The last five years has seen a huge drop in gold and silver prices. Quite a few new collectors of modern precious metal coins have significant losses in value, even 70 graded commemorative moderns. I am/was a big fan, and I also am questioning why. I hope that this negative sentiment is signaling a bottom and we will see much more demand for rarer moderns in the next 5 years to compensate. This is why I think some of these lower mintage moderns may have a comeback or a lift-off soon.
The last five years has seen a huge drop in gold and silver prices. Quite a few new collectors of modern precious metal coins have significant losses in value, even 70 graded commemorative moderns. I am/was a big fan, and I also am questioning why. I hope that this negative sentiment is signaling a bottom and we will see much more demand for rarer moderns in the next 5 years to compensate. This is why I think some of these lower mintage moderns may have a comeback or a lift-off soon.
As far as those first spouse gold coins with very low mintage, we are still in the dealer accumulation stage. But I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. -M. Friedman
"light at the end of the tunnel"
That would be if Trump would appoint a new US mint director and they would immediately melt all remaining first spouse coins in inventory.
Comments
Wondercoin,
So I gather from what I read, that you feel the 2017 gold unc. Lion's Club will be the new key. So we should all act accordingly... I am thinking of taking you up on this bet, but I am not sure when the Long Beach Show is.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Goldminers ... I'm going thirsty here with the lack of bets!!
You can buy me that beer at any Florida FUN show as well or other shows I let you know I'll be at in 2018. Also, beers are transferable to my son Justin. How's that?
Wondercoin
I will take that bet and include a craft beer for Justin, and Monster Coin Mart, who have provided me with some nice new coins lately. This bet probably requires waiting till the end of 2017, but chances are I will be on this site, and you will be too, be sure to remind me one way or the other, in a year.
Cheers,
and Happy New Year
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
So, if wondercoins daughter kept 5 it would be the low( just don't see it being that big of a difference!) Good job now get on the phone and return return Mortimer!
Hey Mitch, if revised numbers make this key it could still b profitable even if it's later unseated until that time.
Mitch-
One other thing:. Do u think this will end up beating Jackie? What is your hunch? Thanks
I'm in on that action Mitch. No new low for 2017 say I.
Lol
I think that after this people will be paying close attention to 17 sales making a low perhaps less likely.
If there are any low mintage gold commemoratives coming up in the future, I'm sure our good friend Tom B will alert us so we can also benefit from getting a low mintage coin with investment potential.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Who is going to set todays market value Buy&Sell on the 2016-w NP $5 unc.
Retired Coin Shop Owner .
Still Collecting
Love my Grandkids and my German Shepherd Dogs . Kind of like my wifes Cat.
Raufus: Yes, I agree that it could still be a winner even though it is (possibly) unseated later. After all, while it is the low coin mintage, the coins will trade as such. And, even if the coin is a "close second" to some other coin, the mintage is low enough to potentially generate interest in the coin anyway. The only "wild card" in my opinion is the impact of the incredibly low mintage Gold Spouse Commems on this whole situation. Will future collectors who "missed the boat" on both the low mintage (5,000) $5 coins as well as the low mintage (2,000) $10 coins be excited to "pay up" for the 5,000 mintage stuff instead of the 2,000 mintage stuff? Big question.
My "hunch" is the coin does come in slightly lower than Jackie. Obviously, I could almost make that happen alone by simply asking my daughter to return to the Mint most of her coins she purchased. I doubt I will suggest to her to return too many, if any. But, how hard is it for a few dozen coins to "fall through"? Not too hard - right?
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Thanks Wondercoin!! Your insights are always appreciated. Worth far than 2 cents :-)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222070962403?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Clad Uncs Sold out from this eBay seller!!!!
I just picked up a couple for the same price that didn't have clad in the title so they were missed :-)
Don't see any redirection of dedicated coin dollars spent on centennial golds this year happening again 17. Commemorative sales in 17 should be robust unless the Mint comes up with a rabbit.
.
Did you guys make all the money you hoped to?
The mint will give us the updated numbers next Tuesday at 5:00ET.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That would be a very tempting 'bet'.... I enjoy sampling a good craft beer regardless of whether I won a 'bet' or not! But, very doubtful I will be at the show so a mote point.
I think it will be unlikely the 2017 gold commem offering will come in at lower numbers, just because of the fact this last issue caught the general collecting public by surprise. After more publicity in Coin World or other avenues, promotions, etc., many more will be preparing for the next issue, ensuring the mintage will be exceeded even if the design is a 'challenged' one. That trend seems to happen after a key date comes out in many instances, and can result in increased sales for years before another one comes up to catch everyone by surprise again.
So IMO, if the Parks issues comes in lower than Jackie, that could hold for awhile. But who knows?? The trend is certainly towards lower and lower numbers....
Its the lower mintage number plus demand that makes the price rise, if that is the goal for these issues for "you". I think demand may be slacking off for these 5$ gold commemorative issues but it could come back who knows. I think it is cool to have coin with Teddy and John Muir on it. And as a back packer I have always loved our national parks. Parks that almost didn't exist if certain politicians had their way back then...
There were two $5 gold available in 2016. Next year there will only be one. Also, no gold mercs, SLQ's or WLH's in 2017. More funds freed up for collectors. Seems like a slam dunk bet to me but I've been wrong before.
92vette ... The 2 vs 1 argument is a solid one to be sure. But, on the other hand, as I have been saying for years now, don't discount the possible future popularity of MINTAGE 2,000 $10 Gold Commems over the mintage 5,000 $5 Gold Commems. IMHO, that reality contributed to the Nat'l Park $5 having a solid shot to detrone Jackie and future $5 Commems perhaps seeing even lower mintages. Jackie dropped from $2,500 to $700 in MS69 in recent years for a reason (and I lost a bunch of money on each and every piece I still have in stock) and I would argue that reason was, in strong part, the super low mintage Spouse Gold Commem series.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Oh I agree, the spouses and the burnished & PR plats have completely changed the definition of low-mintage. I'm personally betting huge on certain spouses for way down the road (I'm thinking 8-12 years out). I just think the fact that the $5 unc will hurt less for the collector to buy will push it over the top. Cheers
The design of Boys town gold coins won't help sales for sure. Also note that it's mintage limit has been cut by 50%
Very good point. The mint could pull 2015 spouse coins at any moment now. For example, The sale number of lady bird Johnson unc. Gold is only about 1720. Also the spouse key will be known for sure soon. But the $5 key will likely change every few years.
Anyway, I see at least 100 return next week. After that price may spike but soon will level off. Bottom line, next couple of weeks may be a good time window to sell.
Time will tell. Good luck!
My budget was really stretched out with the gold Centennials and the first spouses in 2016. I will be quite happy to see fewer Mint offerings like the spouses. These 10 year programs have a lot of interest at the beginning and then mintages usually die. Yes, I have been getting a few spouses lately, as no one knows what the Mint will do, and they could pull them all any day making several extremely low mintages (unless Wondercoin's daughter buys a few hundred of each this week). I also got burned on the Jackie Robinson along with almost all commemoratives I have ever purchased. One coin that I think is interesting for 2017 is the $100 gold 225th Anniversary of Liberty. The initial design drawing did not impress me all that much as I was not sure how the coin would actually turn out, but the picture of the actual high relief coin itself looked really good to me and some of my budget will be for it.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
For this year, the Mint seems to be frequently mentioning April 2nd is the 225th anniversary. In fact, they have a 'clock' noting the number of days left until the anniversary. Have they announced some kind of special promotion for this event? Seems like they are planning something given the countdown....
"(unless Wondercoin's daughter buys a few hundred of each this week)."
She is considering a credit card challenge from Chase now
Wondercoin
is there any way to delete a comment that you start other than deleting it by typing something like this before posting?
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I think one of the things leading to lower sales are collectors personal budgets and a non increasing gold trend. These days more are getting squeezed by higher taxes/costs and stagnant or lowering wages. With a pro growth President in the works we may see stronger buying in the next years and higher mintages.
read whats planned for the 3d & 4th quarter of 2017...should give you some idea.
http://www.coinweek.com/us-mint-news/whats-store-u-s-mint-2017-coinweek-answers/
What is E parks?
So were the coins sold by eparks already tallied as sold by the US Mint? I would think if some were supplied to the US Mint they would have been considered sold? If not, I wonder how many more could be added to final numbers from this source.
eparks is not associated with the US Mint. Their stash was sold to them by the Mint and is part of the Mint's totals.
How is inventory at the Mint's gift shops reported on the weekly sales figures? Do the sales figures reflect coins actually sold by the gift shops or do they include coins still for sale there? This could affect the final outcome.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Now im curious. Which spouses? The 4 coin subset or the soon to be Queen?
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
the eparks sight is cool. Man did those slip under the radar. Did they have clad uncs? Couldnt find them on the site.
If they'd done a Franklin Half dollar style rendition of the Liberty Bell on the reverse of the 2017 UHR Gold coin I'd be all over it. The eagle looks so.. phoned in.
When is 1+1 less than 2 ??
With NPS coming in right at JR mintage I would bet any rise in price for NPS will not offset decline in JR price.
I'll venture that within 1 year non MS70 NPSs will be within $100 of spot while non MS70 JRs will be well below $800
A lot of those last 700 NPSs will be hitting market in next 3 months...............
Exactly, the people who bought at the end will be selling into the market and holding down prices. Had it come in 500 below JR it would be a different story, but they are close to tied. Anyone who bought a lot of these has an incentive to return some of them so it comes in below JR, or else it will be just another second ran coin.
Unfortunately...
My three gold uncs. did arrive and although I really wanted to send some back, there just was not really anything I could see wrong with them, so they are with our hosts for grading.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I believe the last 5 years has shown we really don't know what real end collector demand is for generic $5 commemoratives.
By generic I mean those without a unique feature(HOF) or a Bison like hook..............
2manycoins2fewfunds,
The last five years has seen a huge drop in gold and silver prices. Quite a few new collectors of modern precious metal coins have significant losses in value, even 70 graded commemorative moderns. I am/was a big fan, and I also am questioning why. I hope that this negative sentiment is signaling a bottom and we will see much more demand for rarer moderns in the next 5 years to compensate. This is why I think some of these lower mintage moderns may have a comeback or a lift-off soon.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Don't we have the Jackie Robinson to give you some insight about the demand for the lowest mintage generic commems?
As far as those first spouse gold coins with very low mintage, we are still in the dealer accumulation stage. But I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Market is always forward-looking. Check the price of Eleanor Roosevelt proof pr70.
"light at the end of the tunnel"
That would be if Trump would appoint a new US mint director and they would immediately melt all remaining first spouse coins in inventory.
Happy days are here again...
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set