<< <i>That sounds like a crazy project but could be fun as well.
I've ripped 6 or 7 boxes in the past few years and have focused on getting the best possible raw set. I am happy with my raw set but there would only be 15-20 that would grade 10's. The centering isn't great and the coalition is weird. I haven't ever seen an uncut sheet from 1989-90 Topps hockey but I would guess that Trevor Linden, Mark Messier, Patrick Roy, Cam Neely, Kirk McLean, Pat LaFontaine, and Brian Leetch are all triple printed. You will literally have big stacks of those cards in relation to one per box of Joe Sakic and Wayne Gretzky. 1985-86 Topps hockey was similar with Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky. A 198 card set leaves half a printing sheet to fill and it would have made sense for Topps to print more of the stars.
It is about a million times cheaper than your last project, so that is good. Also, there aren't many 10's around and some of them do go for big money (Sakic and Gretzky).
Good luck and I would be interested in buying your "seconds" set.
Thanks,
Nathanael >>
Nathanael,
I just picked-up this uncut sheet via eBay. It's the first time I've seen one, too. Looks like there's no big stars like Sakic or Gretzky, but when it's here I will post better pictures of it.
<< <i>I just picked-up this uncut sheet via eBay. It's the first time I've seen one, too. Looks like there's no big stars like Sakic or Gretzky, but when it's here I will post better pictures of it.
If I remember right you could get the whole OPC set (3 sheets) and a bunch of Bazooka gum (480 pieces) in a box and might be a cheaper option to display.
<< <i>That sounds like a crazy project but could be fun as well.
I've ripped 6 or 7 boxes in the past few years and have focused on getting the best possible raw set. I am happy with my raw set but there would only be 15-20 that would grade 10's. The centering isn't great and the coalition is weird. I haven't ever seen an uncut sheet from 1989-90 Topps hockey but I would guess that Trevor Linden, Mark Messier, Patrick Roy, Cam Neely, Kirk McLean, Pat LaFontaine, and Brian Leetch are all triple printed. You will literally have big stacks of those cards in relation to one per box of Joe Sakic and Wayne Gretzky. 1985-86 Topps hockey was similar with Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky. A 198 card set leaves half a printing sheet to fill and it would have made sense for Topps to print more of the stars.
It is about a million times cheaper than your last project, so that is good. Also, there aren't many 10's around and some of them do go for big money (Sakic and Gretzky).
Good luck and I would be interested in buying your "seconds" set.
Thanks,
Nathanael >>
Nathanael,
I just picked-up this uncut sheet via eBay. It's the first time I've seen one, too. Looks like there's no big stars like Sakic or Gretzky, but when it's here I will post better pictures of it.
<< <i>If I remember right you could get the whole OPC set (3 sheets) and a bunch of Bazooka gum (480 pieces) in a box and might be a cheaper option to display.
I just picked-up this uncut sheet via eBay. It's the first time I've seen one, too. Looks like there's no big stars like Sakic or Gretzky, but when it's here I will post better pictures of it.
Very cool uncut sheet. But without its partner we will never know for sure if Pat LaFontaine is quadruple printed or merely double printed. Oh, the mystery.
<< <i>Very cool uncut sheet. But without its partner we will never know for sure if Pat LaFontaine is quadruple printed or merely double printed. Oh, the mystery.
<< <i>Very cool uncut sheet. But without its partner we will never know for sure if Pat LaFontaine is quadruple printed or merely double printed. Oh, the mystery.
-Nathanael >>
Do you think there's only two sheets Topps used? >>
Yes, two 132 card sheets (264 cards per pair) w/66 double prints to come out with the 198 card set.
<< <i>Very cool uncut sheet. But without its partner we will never know for sure if Pat LaFontaine is quadruple printed or merely double printed. Oh, the mystery.
-Nathanael >>
Do you think there's only two sheets Topps used? >>
Yes, two 132 card sheets (264 cards per pair) w/66 double prints to come out with the 198 card set. >>
Good to know. I want to learn as much as I can about this set. I'll be keeping an eye out for the other sheet.
Picked up three boxes a few weeks ago. The cards in the boxes are the nicest I've seen yet. Nearly everything is sharp and centered. Contacted the seller and asked if they have more from the same case, and luckily they had nine left. Bought those, so they should be here by the end of the week.
There's a good possibility that out of the 9 boxes on the way there could be a lot of 10s. Here's a picture of what the overall condition of nearly all of the cards from the first three boxes look like:
<< <i>Wow!! If you could get 12 centered boxes that would be incredible.
When are you going to start subbing? I am dying to see what kind of grades you will get.
-Nathanael >>
Thanks Nathanael! I have over 100 at PSA now on Tom's (tsalems) sub. They should pop anytime, but may take up to Christmastime-ish. Expecting those to grade all over the place as I sent in a few testers to see what they'll ding me on for this and that on future subs.
The 9 boxes are here and, a bit disappointed they were shipped without any protection (just laid in box) but it seems to not have messed too many cards up. Did find a pack with Sakic showing. So far have this Sakic, a Gretzky, Leetch and Yzerman showing. Eventually, I'd like to get these slabbed.
I'll stop with 3 boxes tonight and leave the rest for later. Been really busy lately, but will get some scans up asap.
Real nice centering and color on those cards. Hoping the rest of the boxes yield cards just as nice.
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Mullins this thread has been a blast to follow. I wish you luck on getting an all PSA 10 set from this year. With all of the cracking of those boxes you are sure to get a PSA 10 on every card. Keep up the posts please.
Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
Very happy to have my first 10s on this project! Big thank you to Mike (mknez) for letting me piggyback these 20.
I have another 109 at PSA still through Tom's (tsalem) sub and another 100 to send on his next if he has the room. Unfortunately, I didn't write the players down on the 109 sub...so It's been hard to piggyback not knowing what PSA has.
If anyone ever has piggyback room please let me know and I will try to get up to 20 to send.
Big thanks to the ones who've offered to send in on their subs, but I either couldn't get cards together in time (been super busy with orders/work lately) or didn't feel comfortable since I forgot to print off which cards I sent in the 109 sub
Here's the poppage.
1 1 23795565 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1979 O-Pee-Chee 154 Ron Stackhouse Card 2 1 23795566 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1985 O-Pee-Chee 120 Wayne Gretzky Card 3 1 23795567 MINT 9 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card 3 2 23795568 MINT 9 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card 4 1 23795569 MINT 9 1989 Topps 13 Dave Barr Card POP 2 NON HIGHER 5 1 23795570 GEM MINT 10 1989 Topps 21 Mike Bullard Card POP 2 6 1 23795571 MINT 9 1989 Topps 54 Tomas Sandstrom Card POP 2 NON HIGHER 7 1 23795572 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 77 Jim Johnson Card 8 1 23795573 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 87 Neal Broten Card 9 1 23795574 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 96 Jan Erixon Card 10 1 23795575 MINT 9 1989 Topps 102 John MacLean Card POP 2 NON HIGHER 11 1 23795576 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 112 Doug Wilson Card 12 1 23795577 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 13 1 23795578 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 118 Mats Naslund Card 14 1 23795579 GEM MINT 10 1989 Topps 120 Jeff Norton Card POP1 15 1 23795580 MINT 9 1989 Topps 126 Randy Hillier Card POP 2 NON HIGHER 16 1 23795581 MINT 9 1989 Topps 131 Kelly Miller Card POP 1 NON HIGHER 17 1 23795582 NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1989 Topps 136 Brian Leetch Card 17 2 23795583 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 136 Brian Leetch Card 18 1 23795584 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 138 Joe Nieuwendyk Card 19 1 23795585 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 176 Gino Cavallini Card 20 1 23795586 MINT 9 1989 Topps 179 Steve Larmer Card
<< <i>Nice work, Patrick. I didn't realize that 1989 Topps had so many tough 9s! Those are some low pop hits.
I'll be subbing 56 and later in January and will send you a PM to see if you want to send along a Sakic or a dozen ... ! >>
Thanks Casey,
I've opened about 2200 packs and examined about 30,000 cards. Out of all that I have about 1,000 PSA worthy and only about 250 I'm comfortable are lock-in 10s (many doubles, not enough to make a set). The real challenge has been the four blue corners. Any sign of wear, whatsoever, really really jumps out. Also chipping along the top and bottom edge have been a challenge.
And there are tough cards. Vaniesbrouck, Shaw, Chelios and some others, may never see a 10 holder But I'm going to try, even it it takes busting case after CASE!
Dan --- I plan to post scans off all submitted cards from every sub.
I really love this project and admire the true collecting passion it takes to tackle it. With that said, I think you've got to get a little more critical about what you send or you're going to get killed on this thing. Getting that many 8's back should give some pause to the screening process. Just a thought, not a criticism. Keep it going!!!
<< <i>I really love this project and admire the true collecting passion it takes to tackle it. With that said, I think you've got to get a little more critical about what you send or you're going to get killed on this thing. Getting that many 8's back should give some pause to the screening process. Just a thought, not a criticism. Keep it going!!!
jbox >>
Thanks jbox. You're absolutely right.
With this sub and the 109 card sub at PSA right now there are some testers I threw in just to get an idea of what PSA may do on future subs, if that makes sense.
And I'm looking for a loupe...if anyone knows of some good ones to use please share.
Ripped a box last night and used the loupe that came in the other day to help. Here's the rip and a new approach I'm taking to sifting and searching for possible 10s. Hopefully this will help on future subs.
I love being able to pull out a box of wax from my reserves in my downtime.
On deck:
First pack, Lemieux. Looks like a 7 so there's no place for it in this project.
Second pack Gretzky.
Fourth pack Leetch.
This made me laugh.
Now that I'm finished ripping the packs, gum cards are in one box for my son to play with, weak cards in another box and strong cards stacked on shelves, stronger cards in cardsavers (23 from this box). Now time to look at them with a loupe.
After looking at them with a loupe I'm down from 23 to 6.
And here are the final 6 from this box with the best chance for 10s. Still no guarantee, but they're the best of the best. I'm actually really happy with the Gretzky and Sakic.
And now they get filed away with the others for future subs.
Here's the results of my first sub with this set. This was sent before the small order that popped the other day.
Sent 104 cards to PSA early in this project. I didn't examine these with a loupe but strongly felt that 10-15 would grade out 10. A couple of those Gretzkys and Sakics are things of beauty, especially compared with a lot of the trash 10s I see on eBay from this set.
With that said, I'm OK with the sub. Very happy with so many 9s! Who can complain with a 9?
Important to think positive and examine these cards for whatever it was that made the grader keep it out of a 10 holder.
But....c'mon...over 100 cards and not one single 10?
OK, I'll stop
Truth is: if the card isn't a 10, for whatever reason, I don't want it. The grader must have seen something wrong with each card and I need to examine them better pre-sub.
Can't wait to get these back in hand! I'll scan the front and back of these real big for opinions and suggestions.
Here's the poppage. If you are building this set or player set and need some please PM me and I will send you some.
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type 1 1 23579073 MINT 9 1989 Topps 88 Luc Robitaille Card 2 1 23579074 MINT 9 1989 Topps 104 Mike Krushelnyski Card 3 1 23579075 MINT 9 1989 Topps 166 Kelly Hrudey Card 4 1 23579076 MINT 9 1989 Topps 85 Dave Volek Card 5 1 23579077 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 165 Mike Ridley Card 6 1 23579078 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 146 Kevin Hatcher Card 7 1 23579079 MINT 9 1989 Topps 93 Scott Stevens Card 8 1 23579080 MINT 9 1989 Topps 111 Geoff Courtnall Card 9 1 23579081 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 62 Ken Linseman Card 10 1 23579082 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 160 Andy Moog Card 11 1 23579083 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 71 Colin Patterson Card 12 1 23579084 MINT 9 1989 Topps 24 Brian Mullen Card 13 1 23579085 MINT 9 1989 Topps 114 John Vanbiesbrouck Card 14 1 23579086 MINT 9 1989 Topps 171 Kelly Kisio Card 15 1 23579087 MINT 9 1989 Topps 170 Clint Malarchuk Card 16 1 23579088 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 2 23579089 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 3 23579090 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 4 23579091 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 5 23579092 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 6 23579093 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 7 23579094 MINT 9 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 8 23579095 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 9 23579096 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 10 23579097 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 11 23579098 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 12 23579099 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 13 23579100 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 14 23579101 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 15 23579102 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 16 23579103 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 17 23579104 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 18 23579105 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 16 19 23579106 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card 17 1 23579107 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 2 23579108 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 3 23579109 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 4 23579110 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 5 23579111 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 6 23579112 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 7 23579113 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 8 23579114 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 9 23579115 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 10 23579116 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 11 23579117 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 12 23579118 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 13 23579119 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 14 23579120 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 15 23579121 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 17 16 23579122 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card 18 1 23579123 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 168 Zarley Zalapski Card 18 2 23579124 MINT 9 1989 Topps 168 Zarley Zalapski Card 19 1 23579125 MINT 9 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card 19 2 23579126 MINT 9 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card 19 3 23579127 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card 19 4 23579128 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card 20 1 23579129 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 152 Dan Quinn Card 20 2 23579130 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 152 Dan Quinn Card 20 3 23579131 MINT 9 1989 Topps 152 Dan Quinn Card 21 1 23579132 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 95 Paul Coffey Card 21 2 23579133 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 95 Paul Coffey Card 21 3 23579134 MINT 9 1989 Topps 95 Paul Coffey Card 21 4 23579135 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 95 Paul Coffey Card 22 1 23579136 MINT 9 1989 Topps 101 Shawn Burr Card 22 2 23579137 MINT 9 1989 Topps 101 Shawn Burr Card 23 1 23579138 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 144 Glen Hanlon Card 23 2 23579139 MINT 9 1989 Topps 144 Glen Hanlon Card 24 1 23579140 MINT 9 1989 Topps 83 Steve Yzerman Card 24 2 23579141 MINT 9 1989 Topps 83 Steve Yzerman Card 24 3 23579142 MINT 9 1989 Topps 83 Steve Yzerman Card 25 1 23579143 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 106 Dave Andreychuk Card 26 1 23579144 MINT 9 1989 Topps 125 Rick Vaive Card 27 1 23579145 MINT 9 1989 Topps 38 Andrew McBain Card 27 2 23579146 MINT 9 1989 Topps 38 Andrew McBain Card 28 1 23579147 MINT 9 1989 Topps 19 Phil Bourque Card 28 2 23579148 MINT 9 1989 Topps 19 Phil Bourque Card 29 1 23579149 MINT 9 1989 Topps 8 John Tonelli Card 30 1 23579150 MINT 9 1989 Topps 142 Shawn Chambers Card 31 1 23579151 MINT 9 1989 Topps 173 Ron Sutter Card 31 2 23579152 MINT 9 1989 Topps 173 Ron Sutter Card 32 1 23579153 MINT 9 1989 Topps 3 Terry Carkner Card 32 2 23579154 MINT 9 1989 Topps 3 Terry Carkner Card 33 1 23579155 MINT 9 1989 Topps 191 Mark Howe Card 34 1 23579156 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 80 Rick Tocchet Card 35 1 23579157 MINT 9 1989 Topps 72 Tim Kerr Card 36 1 23579158 MINT 9 1989 Topps 100 Kjell Samuelsson Card 37 1 23579159 MINT 9 1989 Topps 195 Pete Peeters Card 38 1 23579160 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 169 Derek Laxdal Card 38 2 23579161 MINT 9 1989 Topps 169 Derek Laxdal Card 39 1 23579162 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card 39 2 23579163 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card 39 3 23579164 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card 39 4 23579165 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card 39 5 23579166 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card 39 6 23579167 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card 40 1 23579168 MINT 9 1989 Topps 122 Dale Hawerchuk Card 40 2 23579169 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 122 Dale Hawerchuk Card 41 1 23579170 MINT 9 1989 Topps 98 Wayne Presley Card 42 1 23579171 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 52 Dirk Graham Card 42 2 23579172 MINT 9 1989 Topps 52 Dirk Graham Card 43 1 23579173 MINT 9 1989 Topps 132 Alain Chevrier Card 44 1 23579174 MINT 9 1989 Topps 5 Denis Savard Card 45 1 23579175 MINT 9 1989 Topps 179 Steve Larmer Card 46 1 23579176 MINT 9 1989 Topps 112 Doug Wilson Card Total Items: 104 Date Received: 10/16/2014 Date Shipped: N/A Order Status: OK
Patrick sends in 104 cards, and by my math, 58 of them get 9's and another 41 get 8's. Not an 8.5 in the bunch. So clearly Patrick has a decent eye, yet not one of the 41 that missed the PSA 9 mark was a "high end 8"?
Someone please explain to me how that half point grading is supposed to work again.
Agreed about the cards in 10 holders I've seen scans of both Sakic 10's one looks like an 8 the other sold a few months ago for around $875 I think. It was an absolute blazer! I was surprised how low it sold for if I had the funds at the time I would be all over it. The funny thing is when I saw your post with all the Sakic scans I thought you might hit on a couple and devalue the card. Love this project I'm in the middle of building a as close to perfect 89 hoops as I can get. Good luck on future subs!
You seem to have found a tough grader. I have no doubt that on another day you would have hit a number of 10s.
In addition to reviewing the cards you subbed with a loupe, you might want to compare directly to the 10s that you have to try to note differences. I suspect that the blue edges/corners are the culprit on most 9/10 distinctions. Is there a difference in the amount of white that you can see under magnification?
Love the enthusiasm in the face of PSA carnage. I would be crushed if I sent in over 100 10-worthy cards and didn't get a single 10. You certainly did run into a grumpy grader. Perhaps cards from 1989 are scrutinized more than cards from 1965. Who knows.
The blue borders on these cards are so brutal. The edges are hardly ever clean, the cutting process usually left minute pressure cracks in the border, and the surface blemishes abound. Your purchase of a loupe will serve you well in the long run.
I have only subbed Gretzky's and Sakic's from this set. After a few 7's and 8's I gave up. Keep going and hopefully things will look up for you in your next sub!
detroitfan2 - it doesn't make sense to me either. Straight 8s? Not one single 8.5 in 41 8s? Not one single 10 in 58 9s? This is a long project and there will certainly be more crushing subs along the way. I do not feel too bad about the sub since this is the first round. Now I have, in hand, graded examples to study. Also, these are cards that I don't have so I can build a PSA set anyways with them, just not my Gem set.
Casey - that's exactly what I plan to do! The loupe really helps wonders as I found out on that last box rip. I would have subbed all 23 of the nicer cards, but with the loupe was able to sift it down to 6.
Nathanael - that's a beautiful Gretzky. I'd be proud to have one like that in my set. You're right, so many nice cards I'm pulling that only have a nick or chip here and there along the blue borders. Here's a few "10s" I found off eBay that I wouldn't sub if I pulled them. Federko is too OC for me and the Gretzkys and Leetch are way out of focus (another big problem with this set as I'm sure you know). The Gretzkys also have a line over his left shoulder, which is a printing issue, and have a gap between the top blue border and the window frame of the image.
Going to be a bit of a downer here but based on that sub I would strongly consider if this is a worthwhile project. I can see the fun in building a really hard set - I'm working on a centered 74 OPC hcky which is a monster- but the downside is there is no market at the end to move all those 8s/9s while you go for 10s. I could see this set costing upwards of 20K in wax/submission fee's which could build you a minty 79 OPC set with a PSA 9 gretz.
<< <i>Going to be a bit of a downer here but based on that sub I would strongly consider if this is a worthwhile project. I can see the fun in building a really hard set - I'm working on a centered 74 OPC hcky which is a monster- but the downside is there is no market at the end to move all those 8s/9s while you go for 10s. I could see this set costing upwards of 20K in wax/submission fee's which could build you a minty 79 OPC set with a PSA 9 gretz.
Food for thought. >>
Sadly you may be right, but I'm not at the point to throw in the towel.
Before I started this project I knew this would happen. This crushing sub will happen again. Just have to learn from mistakes and correct them.
With the extras I'm building a separate and complete registry set without using the 10s. The 10s will be in their own set in the registry. Personally I don't think, for example, a '79 Gretzky in a '79 set should also be able to be used in a Gretzky player set (multiple sets). One card in one set.
If someone's building a player set or the '89 set and wants one of my triples they can have it. The only cards I'll offer for sale are Sakic, Gretzky and Lemieux.
I sincerely thank everyone for their words with this project.
Those who are giving me advice of how much money it will cost and how it's pretty much impossible, I really thank you guys too.
It means a lot to know that there are people here who will give their expertise/advice and look after someone...hoping to prevent them from disappointment.
While that sub was a knockdown, it wasn't a KO/TKO. I still think it's possible to build an entire '89 Topps set in 10s. Very, very, very, very difficult, but possible. Holy Grails and White Whales aren't supposed to be easy to find
And, I love subbing, waiting for the results and ripping packs, searching for boxes/cases. My son is loving the gum cards too
Will it be profitable? No. Did you think it would be profitable at the onset? No. Is there more to this hobby than making money? YES. It is odd to hear voices that you're "wasting money" when, in so many other discussions, people decry the overly commercialized adult version of card collecting. If you like it, do it. And, don't worry about where the market for PSA 8 commons is going to come from.
If you get to the point where the money makes it not worth it, stop. If you get to the point where the frustration at the "misses" overwhelms the enjoyment of the project, stop. But, if you enjoy it and don't mind the challenge, even if it's possibly unattainable, and don't care about the money for the boxes and subs, more power to you and good luck!
(2) "Money doesn't grow on trees"
Even if everything I wrote above is true, estimate the cost of the project.
Let's say, $20,000. Would that money be better spent on something else that might bring you an equal about of "hobby joy"? Let's say, collecting a nice centered vintage set, a midgrade set of HOF rookies, or a high grade "key cards" set of Orr, Gretzky, Howe, etc.? If you did this, you might have the fun AND at the end of the day have something that you could liquidate to fuel a new future adventure .. perhaps 1961 Parkhurst could interest you! Who knows.
I realize this two perspectives are contradictory - but both are running through my head ... thought I'd share.
I agree, in large part to me because I could never convince myself to try this, as much as I would like to. That's what makes this thread so compelling. It is very similar the old BubbleBathGirl threads on 1978 and 1979 Topps baseball - two of my favorite years. It can be a klot of fun to live through a set build vicariously. However, for me, "love of the hobby" money is limited to relatively inexpensive items. If something's going to cost me thousands, I won't make the purchase unless I see investment potential. Now, I may talk myself into investment potential where it doesn't exist (hah!), but there's no way I put that much money into something I expect/know is going to be a four or five figure money loser. I'd rather spend that on travel or save it toward retirement. Just a personal preference.
I'll say it again, and I'm only saying it because even though you may love the hobby, and love the pursuit, it's 99.9% impossible to put a 10 set together through wax packs.
That's loser talk. Would Clint Eastwood give up on the set? Would Bruce Springsteen? Would Rocky?
<< <i>I'll say it again, and I'm only saying it because even though you may love the hobby, and love the pursuit, it's 99.9% impossible to put a 10 set together through wax packs.
That's loser talk. Would Clint Eastwood give up on the set? Would Bruce Springsteen? Would Rocky? >>
In Rocky Marciano's first championship bout he was knocked down in the first round, but fought back and ended up winning, becoming the Heavyweight Champion.
Last night PSA knocked me down, but this is only round one....
Soon there will be a bronze statue of me. Perhaps a movie? It will be called, "House of Cards"
Comments
<< <i>That sounds like a crazy project but could be fun as well.
I've ripped 6 or 7 boxes in the past few years and have focused on getting the best possible raw set. I am happy with my raw set but there would only be 15-20 that would grade 10's. The centering isn't great and the coalition is weird. I haven't ever seen an uncut sheet from 1989-90 Topps hockey but I would guess that Trevor Linden, Mark Messier, Patrick Roy, Cam Neely, Kirk McLean, Pat LaFontaine, and Brian Leetch are all triple printed. You will literally have big stacks of those cards in relation to one per box of Joe Sakic and Wayne Gretzky. 1985-86 Topps hockey was similar with Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky. A 198 card set leaves half a printing sheet to fill and it would have made sense for Topps to print more of the stars.
It is about a million times cheaper than your last project, so that is good. Also, there aren't many 10's around and some of them do go for big money (Sakic and Gretzky).
Good luck and I would be interested in buying your "seconds" set.
Thanks,
Nathanael >>
Nathanael,
I just picked-up this uncut sheet via eBay. It's the first time I've seen one, too. Looks like there's no big stars like Sakic or Gretzky, but when it's here I will post better pictures of it.
1989 Uncut Sheet
<< <i>I just picked-up this uncut sheet via eBay. It's the first time I've seen one, too. Looks like there's no big stars like Sakic or Gretzky, but when it's here I will post better pictures of it.
1989 Uncut Sheet >>
Nice! Do you plan to get it framed? They look amazing on the wall... if you have the wall space. Which, unfortunately, I don't.
Snorto~
Found an old auction:
eBay Link
<< <i>
<< <i>That sounds like a crazy project but could be fun as well.
I've ripped 6 or 7 boxes in the past few years and have focused on getting the best possible raw set. I am happy with my raw set but there would only be 15-20 that would grade 10's. The centering isn't great and the coalition is weird. I haven't ever seen an uncut sheet from 1989-90 Topps hockey but I would guess that Trevor Linden, Mark Messier, Patrick Roy, Cam Neely, Kirk McLean, Pat LaFontaine, and Brian Leetch are all triple printed. You will literally have big stacks of those cards in relation to one per box of Joe Sakic and Wayne Gretzky. 1985-86 Topps hockey was similar with Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky. A 198 card set leaves half a printing sheet to fill and it would have made sense for Topps to print more of the stars.
It is about a million times cheaper than your last project, so that is good. Also, there aren't many 10's around and some of them do go for big money (Sakic and Gretzky).
Good luck and I would be interested in buying your "seconds" set.
Thanks,
Nathanael >>
Nathanael,
I just picked-up this uncut sheet via eBay. It's the first time I've seen one, too. Looks like there's no big stars like Sakic or Gretzky, but when it's here I will post better pictures of it.
1989 Uncut Sheet >>
I see Yzerman on there!
<< <i>If I remember right you could get the whole OPC set (3 sheets) and a bunch of Bazooka gum (480 pieces) in a box and might be a cheaper option to display.
Found an old auction:
eBay Link >>
Even though I'm not collecting the '89 OPC set, had I seen this I would have bought it. Very cool find, haven't seen sheets offered this way before!
<< <i>
I just picked-up this uncut sheet via eBay. It's the first time I've seen one, too. Looks like there's no big stars like Sakic or Gretzky, but when it's here I will post better pictures of it.
1989 Uncut Sheet >>
I see Yzerman on there! >>
Sure is! There's a few more, too. Now I need to get a toploader to display it...this is my first uncut sheet and love it
-Nathanael
<< <i>Very cool uncut sheet. But without its partner we will never know for sure if Pat LaFontaine is quadruple printed or merely double printed. Oh, the mystery.
-Nathanael >>
Do you think there's only two sheets Topps used?
<< <i>
<< <i>Very cool uncut sheet. But without its partner we will never know for sure if Pat LaFontaine is quadruple printed or merely double printed. Oh, the mystery.
-Nathanael >>
Do you think there's only two sheets Topps used? >>
Yes, two 132 card sheets (264 cards per pair) w/66 double prints to come out with the 198 card set.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Very cool uncut sheet. But without its partner we will never know for sure if Pat LaFontaine is quadruple printed or merely double printed. Oh, the mystery.
-Nathanael >>
Do you think there's only two sheets Topps used? >>
Yes, two 132 card sheets (264 cards per pair) w/66 double prints to come out with the 198 card set. >>
Good to know. I want to learn as much as I can about this set. I'll be keeping an eye out for the other sheet.
There's a good possibility that out of the 9 boxes on the way there could be a lot of 10s. Here's a picture of what the overall condition of nearly all of the cards from the first three boxes look like:
When are you going to start subbing? I am dying to see what kind of grades you will get.
-Nathanael
<< <i>Wow!! If you could get 12 centered boxes that would be incredible.
When are you going to start subbing? I am dying to see what kind of grades you will get.
-Nathanael >>
Thanks Nathanael! I have over 100 at PSA now on Tom's (tsalems) sub. They should pop anytime, but may take up to Christmastime-ish. Expecting those to grade all over the place as I sent in a few testers to see what they'll ding me on for this and that on future subs.
Very excited to see what these 9 boxes look like!
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The 9 boxes are here and, a bit disappointed they were shipped without any protection (just laid in box) but it seems to not have messed too many cards up. Did find a pack with Sakic showing. So far have this Sakic, a Gretzky, Leetch and Yzerman showing. Eventually, I'd like to get these slabbed.
I'll stop with 3 boxes tonight and leave the rest for later. Been really busy lately, but will get some scans up asap.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>Real nice centering and color on those cards. Hoping the rest of the boxes yield cards just as nice. >>
Thanks Doug! These new boxes look nice, but not as nice as those first three.
Through opening all of these 89's I've noticed that the Gretzky and Lemieux box bottoms yield much nicer cards, almost every single time.
Has anyone noticed this with other issues? Where certain boxes yield better cards?
I have another 109 at PSA still through Tom's (tsalem) sub and another 100 to send on his next if he has the room. Unfortunately, I didn't write the players down on the 109 sub...so It's been hard to piggyback not knowing what PSA has.
If anyone ever has piggyback room please let me know and I will try to get up to 20 to send.
Big thanks to the ones who've offered to send in on their subs, but I either couldn't get cards together in time (been super busy with orders/work lately) or didn't feel comfortable since I forgot to print off which cards I sent in the 109 sub
Here's the poppage.
1 1 23795565 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1979 O-Pee-Chee 154 Ron Stackhouse Card
2 1 23795566 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1985 O-Pee-Chee 120 Wayne Gretzky Card
3 1 23795567 MINT 9 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card
3 2 23795568 MINT 9 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card
4 1 23795569 MINT 9 1989 Topps 13 Dave Barr Card POP 2 NON HIGHER
5 1 23795570 GEM MINT 10 1989 Topps 21 Mike Bullard Card POP 2
6 1 23795571 MINT 9 1989 Topps 54 Tomas Sandstrom Card POP 2 NON HIGHER
7 1 23795572 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 77 Jim Johnson Card
8 1 23795573 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 87 Neal Broten Card
9 1 23795574 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 96 Jan Erixon Card
10 1 23795575 MINT 9 1989 Topps 102 John MacLean Card POP 2 NON HIGHER
11 1 23795576 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 112 Doug Wilson Card
12 1 23795577 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
13 1 23795578 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 118 Mats Naslund Card
14 1 23795579 GEM MINT 10 1989 Topps 120 Jeff Norton Card POP1
15 1 23795580 MINT 9 1989 Topps 126 Randy Hillier Card POP 2 NON HIGHER
16 1 23795581 MINT 9 1989 Topps 131 Kelly Miller Card POP 1 NON HIGHER
17 1 23795582 NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1989 Topps 136 Brian Leetch Card
17 2 23795583 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 136 Brian Leetch Card
18 1 23795584 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 138 Joe Nieuwendyk Card
19 1 23795585 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 176 Gino Cavallini Card
20 1 23795586 MINT 9 1989 Topps 179 Steve Larmer Card
I'll be subbing 56 and later in January and will send you a PM to see if you want to send along a Sakic or a dozen ... !
<< <i>Nice work, Patrick. I didn't realize that 1989 Topps had so many tough 9s! Those are some low pop hits.
I'll be subbing 56 and later in January and will send you a PM to see if you want to send along a Sakic or a dozen ... ! >>
Thanks Casey,
I've opened about 2200 packs and examined about 30,000 cards. Out of all that I have about 1,000 PSA worthy and only about 250 I'm comfortable are lock-in 10s (many doubles, not enough to make a set). The real challenge has been the four blue corners. Any sign of wear, whatsoever, really really jumps out. Also chipping along the top and bottom edge have been a challenge.
And there are tough cards. Vaniesbrouck, Shaw, Chelios and some others, may never see a 10 holder
Dan --- I plan to post scans off all submitted cards from every sub.
jbox
<< <i>I really love this project and admire the true collecting passion it takes to tackle it. With that said, I think you've got to get a little more critical about what you send or you're going to get killed on this thing. Getting that many 8's back should give some pause to the screening process. Just a thought, not a criticism. Keep it going!!!
jbox >>
Thanks jbox. You're absolutely right.
With this sub and the 109 card sub at PSA right now there are some testers I threw in just to get an idea of what PSA may do on future subs, if that makes sense.
And I'm looking for a loupe...if anyone knows of some good ones to use please share.
I love being able to pull out a box of wax from my reserves in my downtime.
On deck:
First pack, Lemieux. Looks like a 7 so there's no place for it in this project.
Second pack Gretzky.
Fourth pack Leetch.
This made me laugh.
Now that I'm finished ripping the packs, gum cards are in one box for my son to play with, weak cards in another box and strong cards stacked on shelves, stronger cards in cardsavers (23 from this box). Now time to look at them with a loupe.
After looking at them with a loupe I'm down from 23 to 6.
And here are the final 6 from this box with the best chance for 10s. Still no guarantee, but they're the best of the best. I'm actually really happy with the Gretzky and Sakic.
And now they get filed away with the others for future subs.
If the gum isn't in the way of the player's name on the front of the pack I can almost always determine if there's a Sakic in there.
If I can see the card on the back, too, then it's a lock.
There's 1-3 Sakic in each box. Three is unlikely, but possible.
By peeking through the packs I can open less than 10 packs per box and pull all the Sakics.
Makes me think about the possibility of someone pulling all of the Sakic cards out of a box or case before selling
Sent 104 cards to PSA early in this project. I didn't examine these with a loupe but strongly felt that 10-15 would grade out 10. A couple of those Gretzkys and Sakics are things of beauty, especially compared with a lot of the trash 10s I see on eBay from this set.
With that said, I'm OK with the sub. Very happy with so many 9s! Who can complain with a 9?
Important to think positive and examine these cards for whatever it was that made the grader keep it out of a 10 holder.
But....c'mon...over 100 cards and not one single 10?
OK, I'll stop
Truth is: if the card isn't a 10, for whatever reason, I don't want it. The grader must have seen something wrong with each card and I need to examine them better pre-sub.
Can't wait to get these back in hand! I'll scan the front and back of these real big for opinions and suggestions.
Here's the poppage. If you are building this set or player set and need some please PM me and I will send you some.
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type
1 1 23579073 MINT 9 1989 Topps 88 Luc Robitaille Card
2 1 23579074 MINT 9 1989 Topps 104 Mike Krushelnyski Card
3 1 23579075 MINT 9 1989 Topps 166 Kelly Hrudey Card
4 1 23579076 MINT 9 1989 Topps 85 Dave Volek Card
5 1 23579077 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 165 Mike Ridley Card
6 1 23579078 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 146 Kevin Hatcher Card
7 1 23579079 MINT 9 1989 Topps 93 Scott Stevens Card
8 1 23579080 MINT 9 1989 Topps 111 Geoff Courtnall Card
9 1 23579081 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 62 Ken Linseman Card
10 1 23579082 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 160 Andy Moog Card
11 1 23579083 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 71 Colin Patterson Card
12 1 23579084 MINT 9 1989 Topps 24 Brian Mullen Card
13 1 23579085 MINT 9 1989 Topps 114 John Vanbiesbrouck Card
14 1 23579086 MINT 9 1989 Topps 171 Kelly Kisio Card
15 1 23579087 MINT 9 1989 Topps 170 Clint Malarchuk Card
16 1 23579088 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 2 23579089 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 3 23579090 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 4 23579091 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 5 23579092 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 6 23579093 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 7 23579094 MINT 9 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 8 23579095 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 9 23579096 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 10 23579097 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 11 23579098 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 12 23579099 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 13 23579100 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 14 23579101 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 15 23579102 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 16 23579103 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 17 23579104 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 18 23579105 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
16 19 23579106 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 113 Joe Sakic Card
17 1 23579107 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 2 23579108 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 3 23579109 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 4 23579110 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 5 23579111 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 6 23579112 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 7 23579113 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 8 23579114 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 9 23579115 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 10 23579116 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 11 23579117 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 12 23579118 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 13 23579119 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 14 23579120 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 15 23579121 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
17 16 23579122 MINT 9 1989 Topps 156 Wayne Gretzky Card
18 1 23579123 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 168 Zarley Zalapski Card
18 2 23579124 MINT 9 1989 Topps 168 Zarley Zalapski Card
19 1 23579125 MINT 9 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card
19 2 23579126 MINT 9 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card
19 3 23579127 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card
19 4 23579128 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 1 Mario Lemieux Card
20 1 23579129 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 152 Dan Quinn Card
20 2 23579130 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 152 Dan Quinn Card
20 3 23579131 MINT 9 1989 Topps 152 Dan Quinn Card
21 1 23579132 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 95 Paul Coffey Card
21 2 23579133 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 95 Paul Coffey Card
21 3 23579134 MINT 9 1989 Topps 95 Paul Coffey Card
21 4 23579135 NEAR MINT 7 1989 Topps 95 Paul Coffey Card
22 1 23579136 MINT 9 1989 Topps 101 Shawn Burr Card
22 2 23579137 MINT 9 1989 Topps 101 Shawn Burr Card
23 1 23579138 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 144 Glen Hanlon Card
23 2 23579139 MINT 9 1989 Topps 144 Glen Hanlon Card
24 1 23579140 MINT 9 1989 Topps 83 Steve Yzerman Card
24 2 23579141 MINT 9 1989 Topps 83 Steve Yzerman Card
24 3 23579142 MINT 9 1989 Topps 83 Steve Yzerman Card
25 1 23579143 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 106 Dave Andreychuk Card
26 1 23579144 MINT 9 1989 Topps 125 Rick Vaive Card
27 1 23579145 MINT 9 1989 Topps 38 Andrew McBain Card
27 2 23579146 MINT 9 1989 Topps 38 Andrew McBain Card
28 1 23579147 MINT 9 1989 Topps 19 Phil Bourque Card
28 2 23579148 MINT 9 1989 Topps 19 Phil Bourque Card
29 1 23579149 MINT 9 1989 Topps 8 John Tonelli Card
30 1 23579150 MINT 9 1989 Topps 142 Shawn Chambers Card
31 1 23579151 MINT 9 1989 Topps 173 Ron Sutter Card
31 2 23579152 MINT 9 1989 Topps 173 Ron Sutter Card
32 1 23579153 MINT 9 1989 Topps 3 Terry Carkner Card
32 2 23579154 MINT 9 1989 Topps 3 Terry Carkner Card
33 1 23579155 MINT 9 1989 Topps 191 Mark Howe Card
34 1 23579156 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 80 Rick Tocchet Card
35 1 23579157 MINT 9 1989 Topps 72 Tim Kerr Card
36 1 23579158 MINT 9 1989 Topps 100 Kjell Samuelsson Card
37 1 23579159 MINT 9 1989 Topps 195 Pete Peeters Card
38 1 23579160 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 169 Derek Laxdal Card
38 2 23579161 MINT 9 1989 Topps 169 Derek Laxdal Card
39 1 23579162 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card
39 2 23579163 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card
39 3 23579164 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card
39 4 23579165 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card
39 5 23579166 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card
39 6 23579167 MINT 9 1989 Topps 65 Mark Messier Card
40 1 23579168 MINT 9 1989 Topps 122 Dale Hawerchuk Card
40 2 23579169 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 122 Dale Hawerchuk Card
41 1 23579170 MINT 9 1989 Topps 98 Wayne Presley Card
42 1 23579171 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1989 Topps 52 Dirk Graham Card
42 2 23579172 MINT 9 1989 Topps 52 Dirk Graham Card
43 1 23579173 MINT 9 1989 Topps 132 Alain Chevrier Card
44 1 23579174 MINT 9 1989 Topps 5 Denis Savard Card
45 1 23579175 MINT 9 1989 Topps 179 Steve Larmer Card
46 1 23579176 MINT 9 1989 Topps 112 Doug Wilson Card
Total Items: 104
Date Received: 10/16/2014
Date Shipped: N/A
Order Status: OK
Have you subbed any Ray Bourque cards yet?
<< <i>Man, only one Sakic 9?? Still, in sure that's a beauty and I'd really love to see it!
Have you subbed any Ray Bourque cards yet? >>
Yeah, there's something off on this sub. Probably me, we'll see.
I can't get over how sharp most of those Sakics and especially the Gretzkys are. If not 9, how about some 8.5s?
I want to get it right and not have weak 10s...but you see some of the 10s on ebay and you can't help but feel somewhat robbed.
Eh well, more ripping
No Bourques yet. Soon.
Someone please explain to me how that half point grading is supposed to work again.
Agreed about the cards in 10 holders I've seen scans of both Sakic 10's one looks like an 8 the other sold a few months ago for around $875 I think. It was an absolute blazer! I was surprised how low it sold for if I had the funds at the time I would be all over it. The funny thing is when I saw your post with all the Sakic scans I thought you might hit on a couple and devalue the card. Love this project I'm in the middle of building a as close to perfect 89 hoops as I can get. Good luck on future subs!
My new website www.lowgradegems.com
Tim
In addition to reviewing the cards you subbed with a loupe, you might want to compare directly to the 10s that you have to try to note differences. I suspect that the blue edges/corners are the culprit on most 9/10 distinctions. Is there a difference in the amount of white that you can see under magnification?
Love the enthusiasm in the face of PSA carnage. I would be crushed if I sent in over 100 10-worthy cards and didn't get a single 10. You certainly did run into a grumpy grader. Perhaps cards from 1989 are scrutinized more than cards from 1965. Who knows.
The blue borders on these cards are so brutal. The edges are hardly ever clean, the cutting process usually left minute pressure cracks in the border, and the surface blemishes abound. Your purchase of a loupe will serve you well in the long run.
I have only subbed Gretzky's and Sakic's from this set. After a few 7's and 8's I gave up. Keep going and hopefully things will look up for you in your next sub!
-Nathanael
Have enjoyed following this thread. Sorry about your last sub of not getting even ONE ten, but hopefully on your next sub you will do a lot better!!
Jeremy
detroitfan2 - it doesn't make sense to me either. Straight 8s? Not one single 8.5 in 41 8s? Not one single 10 in 58 9s? This is a long project and there will certainly be more crushing subs along the way. I do not feel too bad about the sub since this is the first round. Now I have, in hand, graded examples to study. Also, these are cards that I don't have so I can build a PSA set anyways with them, just not my Gem set.
Casey - that's exactly what I plan to do! The loupe really helps wonders as I found out on that last box rip. I would have subbed all 23 of the nicer cards, but with the loupe was able to sift it down to 6.
Nathanael - that's a beautiful Gretzky. I'd be proud to have one like that in my set. You're right, so many nice cards I'm pulling that only have a nick or chip here and there along the blue borders. Here's a few "10s" I found off eBay that I wouldn't sub if I pulled them. Federko is too OC for me and the Gretzkys and Leetch are way out of focus (another big problem with this set as I'm sure you know). The Gretzkys also have a line over his left shoulder, which is a printing issue, and have a gap between the top blue border and the window frame of the image.
Food for thought.
<< <i>Going to be a bit of a downer here but based on that sub I would strongly consider if this is a worthwhile project. I can see the fun in building a really hard set - I'm working on a centered 74 OPC hcky which is a monster- but the downside is there is no market at the end to move all those 8s/9s while you go for 10s. I could see this set costing upwards of 20K in wax/submission fee's which could build you a minty 79 OPC set with a PSA 9 gretz.
Food for thought. >>
Sadly you may be right, but I'm not at the point to throw in the towel.
Before I started this project I knew this would happen. This crushing sub will happen again. Just have to learn from mistakes and correct them.
With the extras I'm building a separate and complete registry set without using the 10s. The 10s will be in their own set in the registry. Personally I don't think, for example, a '79 Gretzky in a '79 set should also be able to be used in a Gretzky player set (multiple sets). One card in one set.
If someone's building a player set or the '89 set and wants one of my triples they can have it. The only cards I'll offer for sale are Sakic, Gretzky and Lemieux.
What are you going to so with the Sakic 8s?
Sell, crack and inspect?
<< <i>Dang, I was rooting for you.
What are you going to so with the Sakic 8s?
Sell, crack and inspect? >>
Thanks! Inspect for sure. Take high resolution scans. Look them over with my loupe. Probably end up selling them.
Those who are giving me advice of how much money it will cost and how it's pretty much impossible, I really thank you guys too.
It means a lot to know that there are people here who will give their expertise/advice and look after someone...hoping to prevent them from disappointment.
While that sub was a knockdown, it wasn't a KO/TKO. I still think it's possible to build an entire '89 Topps set in 10s. Very, very, very, very difficult, but possible. Holy Grails and White Whales aren't supposed to be easy to find
And, I love subbing, waiting for the results and ripping packs, searching for boxes/cases. My son is loving the gum cards too
(1) "It's about the hobby"
Keep going.
Will it be profitable? No. Did you think it would be profitable at the onset? No. Is there more to this hobby than making money? YES. It is odd to hear voices that you're "wasting money" when, in so many other discussions, people decry the overly commercialized adult version of card collecting. If you like it, do it. And, don't worry about where the market for PSA 8 commons is going to come from.
If you get to the point where the money makes it not worth it, stop. If you get to the point where the frustration at the "misses" overwhelms the enjoyment of the project, stop. But, if you enjoy it and don't mind the challenge, even if it's possibly unattainable, and don't care about the money for the boxes and subs, more power to you and good luck!
(2) "Money doesn't grow on trees"
Even if everything I wrote above is true, estimate the cost of the project.
Let's say, $20,000. Would that money be better spent on something else that might bring you an equal about of "hobby joy"? Let's say, collecting a nice centered vintage set, a midgrade set of HOF rookies, or a high grade "key cards" set of Orr, Gretzky, Howe, etc.? If you did this, you might have the fun AND at the end of the day have something that you could liquidate to fuel a new future adventure .. perhaps 1961 Parkhurst could interest you!
I realize this two perspectives are contradictory - but both are running through my head ... thought I'd share.
<< <i>I say keep going. >>
I agree, in large part to me because I could never convince myself to try this, as much as I would like to. That's what makes this thread so compelling. It is very similar the old BubbleBathGirl threads on 1978 and 1979 Topps baseball - two of my favorite years. It can be a klot of fun to live through a set build vicariously. However, for me, "love of the hobby" money is limited to relatively inexpensive items. If something's going to cost me thousands, I won't make the purchase unless I see investment potential. Now, I may talk myself into investment potential where it doesn't exist (hah!), but there's no way I put that much money into something I expect/know is going to be a four or five figure money loser. I'd rather spend that on travel or save it toward retirement. Just a personal preference.
That's loser talk. Would Clint Eastwood give up on the set? Would Bruce Springsteen? Would Rocky?
<< <i>I'll say it again, and I'm only saying it because even though you may love the hobby, and love the pursuit, it's 99.9% impossible to put a 10 set together through wax packs.
That's loser talk. Would Clint Eastwood give up on the set? Would Bruce Springsteen? Would Rocky? >>
In Rocky Marciano's first championship bout he was knocked down in the first round, but fought back and ended up winning, becoming the Heavyweight Champion.
Last night PSA knocked me down, but this is only round one....
Soon there will be a bronze statue of me. Perhaps a movie? It will be called, "House of Cards"
Those Gretzky's you shared are ugly. That white streak isn't even a common PD. I cannot imagine in what world those would get 10's.
-Nathanael