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1989 Topps Hockey: PSA Set from Scratch UPDATE: Going through the raws again

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  • SumoMenkoManSumoMenkoMan Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭
    Good luck and thanks for the update.
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Scanning pro-tip: if you scan in a dark-ish room with the lid open, you'll get a black background without needing to put paper on top. >>



    That never works for me. >>




    You just put the card in the scanning tray and leave the lid open. Assuming all of the lights are off the background will be pitch black. If there is some light it will be a shade lighter but certainly nothing like a scan with the lid down.





  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are you going to try to build a PSA 10 set of the sticker inserts too? 10's are particularly tough on box bottoms, but are you planning to sub the best set you can of those as well?


  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    By the way, I don't suppose you have any Randy Cunneyworth error cards from your rips, do you? I've never seen one and I am hesitant to believe it even exists.

  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Are you going to try to build a PSA 10 set of the sticker inserts too? 10's are particularly tough on box bottoms, but are you planning to sub the best set you can of those as well? >>



    Eventually. I'm putting strong stickers in cardsavers to build a PSA set later. I haven't found any gradable box bottoms, but when I do I will certainly build that set too.

    The cards and stickers, I think, can be built in all PSA 10. It will just take time, but that's what set-building and collecting is all about. The box bottoms, however, I'm not so sure can be built in all PSA 10 (but anything is possible I suppose) and once I get some gradable ones I'll build that set too. But for now my main focus is on the regular issue cards and not the stickers or box bottoms.



    << <i>By the way, I don't suppose you have any Randy Cunneyworth error cards from your rips, do you? I've never seen one and I am hesitant to believe it even exists. >>



    Haven't seen one and don't think I will. Like you said, I don't know if it even exists. Maybe it will become available one day through Topps Vault, if it hasn't already?


  • << <i>This is FANTASTIC!!!!!

    Also the only year that Topps "beat" OPC when the two were released in the same year. >>



    Great reading this thread.
    My only question is how did Topps "beat" OPC - better cards in the set or just fewer to collect.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>This is FANTASTIC!!!!!

    Also the only year that Topps "beat" OPC when the two were released in the same year. >>



    Great reading this thread.
    My only question is how did Topps "beat" OPC - better cards in the set or just fewer to collect. >>



    Thank you!

    I'm not sure exactly why (perhaps someone can chime in on this) but the Topps 1989 cards are more desirable and worth more than the OPC counterpart.

    For instance, a Sakic card from the OPC set can bring $4 while the same card in the same condition will bring a whopping $6 if it's Topps.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Picked-up 10 more boxes that came in the other day. Almost opened every box and having a great time and good results.

    I emailed Steve at BBCE and explained this project to him and he told me that he has 10 boxes that appear to have water damage. He opened a few packs and said they look good, but he didn't want to sell them to be on the safe side. He made me a generous offer of $12.50/box for these, which I couldn't pass on. They should be here early next week! BBCE has been GREAT to work with!

    So, that will make 30 total boxes!

    I bought 400 cardsaver 1s and just ordered 1,000 more so that I can put all the high grade cards in and begin sorting through and picking out the very best two of each card.

    Here's boxes 11-20.

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  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    1,000 extra Cardsavers have arrived. Now it's time to really start going through these to find the best of the best image

    10 more boxes should be here this week. Ordering 20 more by the weekend.

    Ordering 1,000 9-pocket album pages to put extra sets in.

    Let me just say that this is the first time I've collected cards that I didn't place a monetary value on things. Not looking at whether or not a card is worth this or that much. I'm just buying and having fun with it.

    And I thought it would be stressful to try to find the perfect card of each player...but it's been a nice challenge. A few players in this set are TOUGH to get centered decently...but I'm determined to find them image

    image
  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks for the scanning tip!

    Question for everyone: would the indention in this picture be enough to knock a card out of a 10?

    image >>




    If my Chris Doleman 88 RC in PSA 10 is any indication then nope, it wouldn't knock it out of a 10. Or maybe my card just slipped a couple sets of eyes image
  • This is quickly turning into one of my favorite threads image

    as for WHY Topps > OPC? I'm not sure there is a steadfast reason, but it is the case. Go year by year when Topps & OPC came out in the same year. 1989 Topps is the only one that has more "value" then its OPC counterpart.
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle


  • << <i>This is quickly turning into one of my favorite threads image

    as for WHY Topps > OPC? I'm not sure there is a steadfast reason, but it is the case. Go year by year when Topps & OPC came out in the same year. 1989 Topps is the only one that has more "value" then its OPC counterpart. >>



    The OP states that he isn't worried about or doing this for the monetary value. I was just wondering if there is any other reason than value that the Topps is a "better" set.
    I've heard that the Topps was short printed but it's easy to find cases and boxes sell for about the same price as OPC.

    I agree that this is a great thread - It's what collecting is all about.
    I'm looking forward to seeing the grades.
  • I should add without trying to hijack the thread that I'm slowly working on an OPC set of this year. Unlike the OP, I'm cheating a little by buying some graded cards.
    I opened a case with maybe 20 cards looking like 10's. Lots of 9's.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>This is quickly turning into one of my favorite threads image

    as for WHY Topps > OPC? I'm not sure there is a steadfast reason, but it is the case. Go year by year when Topps & OPC came out in the same year. 1989 Topps is the only one that has more "value" then its OPC counterpart. >>



    The OP states that he isn't worried about or doing this for the monetary value. I was just wondering if there is any other reason than value that the Topps is a "better" set.
    I've heard that the Topps was short printed but it's easy to find cases and boxes sell for about the same price as OPC.

    I agree that this is a great thread - It's what collecting is all about.
    I'm looking forward to seeing the grades. >>



    Thanks!

    I think it's because of the quantity printed. Apparently OPC printed a ton of 1989 Hockey.

    OPC is a nice set, but I like the Topps because it's a smaller set to build (easier for my goal) and I don't care much for the extra cards that OPC issued that year.

    If you ever want to build the Topps set, I have plenty available image
  • RedHeart54RedHeart54 Posts: 2,277 ✭✭✭
    As I've understood it, OPC printed a ton of cards that year. They were distributed in wax, factory sets and possibly vending. Remember, '89 was right smack in the overproduction years of cards in general. It's kind of too bad because the quantity of '89 OPC probably depressed the value of what Theoren Fleury's and Gary Roberts' rookies could have been worth. (Neither were included in the Topps set.)


  • << <i>As I've understood it, OPC printed a ton of cards that year. They were distributed in wax, factory sets and possibly vending. Remember, '89 was right smack in the overproduction years of cards in general. It's kind of too bad because the quantity of '89 OPC probably depressed the value of what Theoren Fleury's and Gary Roberts' rookies could have been worth. (Neither were included in the Topps set.) >>



    Yes, Vending for sure, as i busted a case that year image
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>As I've understood it, OPC printed a ton of cards that year. They were distributed in wax, factory sets and possibly vending. Remember, '89 was right smack in the overproduction years of cards in general. It's kind of too bad because the quantity of '89 OPC probably depressed the value of what Theoren Fleury's and Gary Roberts' rookies could have been worth. (Neither were included in the Topps set.) >>



    Yes, Vending for sure, as i busted a case that year image >>



    I hadn't even considered the factory sets and vending. Never seen that with the Topps issue.
  • tsalems1tsalems1 Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭✭
    I remember 1989 OPC hockey cut card vending cases could be had for $50-$75 per. There is probably as much 1989 OPC hockey as there is 1988 Donruss image
    opcbaseball.com
  • FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm glad this thread is still going strong. This is one of my favorite sets of all-time and I spent so much time on this set when it came out.

    1989 OPC had an incredibly large print run for its time. Considering that at the time of the 1989 OPC set printing there was no beckett price guide and no massive interest in hockey cards south of the border, it was perplexing as to how much product was printed. It was the beginning of the craze, I suppose. OPC packs came 48 to a box and 6 cards per pack, which was always a losing proposition for opening packs. There are a few notable cards in the extra 132 OPC cards, but beyond the Gary Roberts and Theo Fleury rookies, there wasn't much, even in 1989. 1989 OPC boxes have always been overpriced consider the market was/is flooded with vending and factory sets.

    Topps, on the other hand, primarily came in packs only. I haven't seen factory sets or vending, which is consistent with previous issues from 1980's era topps hockey. Perhaps OPC got really excited about the upswing in hockey cards popularity and Topps was indifferent to the added interest. I prefer the Topps issue in this year because I opened so much of the product. Selling Brian Leetch rookies in New England in 1990 was kind of easy. Sakic wasn't really a big rookie at the time. He wasn't a surefire superstar and he played in Quebec. There wasn't as much hype for him as there was for Leetch or Tony Granato.

    Hey Mullins5, could you do a head count of some of the high profile DP's like Messier, LaFontaine, Roy, and Leetch in comparison to Sakic and Gretzky? I have always wondered what the ratio would be over a case or more. I'd say somewhere between 4 to 1 and 5 to 1. Also, I would like to know what cards are tough to find centered. From my recollection I think Tim Kerr and Greg Stefan were tough.

    One last point, the Cunneyworth error doesn't exist. Someone prove me wrong.

    -Nathanael



  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,264 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>One last point, the Cunneyworth error doesn't exist. Someone prove me wrong.

    -Nathanael >>



    +1 on that!
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hey Mullins5, could you do a head count of some of the high profile DP's like Messier, LaFontaine, Roy, and Leetch in comparison to Sakic and Gretzky? I have always wondered what the ratio would be over a case or more. I'd say somewhere between 4 to 1 and 5 to 1. Also, I would like to know what cards are tough to find centered. From my recollection I think Tim Kerr and Greg Stefan were tough.

    One last point, the Cunneyworth error doesn't exist. Someone prove me wrong.

    -Nathanael >>



    I'm compiling a list of the more difficult to find centered cards, as well as quantities of Sakic, Gretzky and Lemieux. I'll definitely add the other players to that list and give an update once I go through these cards.

    I'm with you on the Cunneyworth...but still looking....

    Hey, what do you think about the "Tembec Test" OPC cards? I don't know if I believe in the quantity people say exists of each card (apparently about 100 of each) but could be wrong. I just remember having MANY of them when I was a kid and they didn't seem too rare to me back them.
  • FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey, what do you think about the "Tembec Test" OPC cards? I don't know if I believe in the quantity people say exists of each card (apparently about 100 of each) but could be wrong. I just remember having MANY of them when I was a kid and they didn't seem too rare to me back them.

    I think the difference in the card stock is so marginal between the regular OPC and the Tembec version that most people see that the emperor has no clothes. Rumored print runs of less than 100 per card can't be substantiated. Yes, they are harder to obtain, but very few people have cared over the last 25 years.

    Holy, its been 25 years. Man, I am old.
  • milbrocomilbroco Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭
    Just an FYI - The Cunneyworth error does exist. I saw one when the cards first came out. It was at the Philadelphia / Willow Grove / Valley Forge (or wherever its called now) show. I did not think anything of it back then. I guess I should have bought it.......................
    Robert
    ebay seller name milbroco
    email bcmiller7@comcast.net
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Before I open each pack I try to see the name of the player that's visible. I found a Brian Leetch showing and would like to keep it. How does pack grading work? Expensive or not? Does PSA have pack grading specials from time to time?

    How does grading work? What does PSA look for when giving a grade? I've heard the stick of gum can't be loose...is this true?

    Thanks!
  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,264 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Just an FYI - The Cunneyworth error does exist. I saw one when the cards first came out. It was at the Philadelphia / Willow Grove / Valley Forge (or wherever its called now) show. I did not think anything of it back then. I guess I should have bought it.......................
    Robert >>



    Some people claim they "saw" Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster, too image

  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    42 Boxes of awesomeness. That's 1,512 packs and over 21,000 cards including stickers. Still have 12 to open image

    Please excuse the mess as we're about to completely remodel our kitchen!

    image
  • SumoMenkoManSumoMenkoMan Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭
    Holy......
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Holy...... >>



    Hockey Batman!! 😄
  • I'm not even into hockey and I am really enjoying this thread, please keep updating along the way! Good Luck
    Matt
    I collect: 80’s Rookies and 86 Fleer Basketball
  • SumoMenkoManSumoMenkoMan Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm not even into hockey and I am really enjoying this thread, please keep updating along the way! Good Luck >>



    Ditto, please keep it up!!
  • FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread took me back to being a kid and doing TTM for any and everyone. Here are my topps auto's from 1989 and 1990 period.

    HOw about an update on some of your GEM mint pulls???

    -Nathanael

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  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭
    The signed Sakic rookie is sick!
  • WhiteTornadoWhiteTornado Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭
    I hadn't seen this thread before, my gosh, what a MOUNTAIN of cards you are opening! image

    That Ron Francis auto on the old Whalers card is really neat.

    MULLINS5, you know we will want to see any 10s you happen to pop image. Best wishes, looks like a cool project. Your enthusiasm comes through in the threads I've read so far.
  • downtowndowntown Posts: 671 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>As I've understood it, OPC printed a ton of cards that year. They were distributed in wax, factory sets and possibly vending. Remember, '89 was right smack in the overproduction years of cards in general. It's kind of too bad because the quantity of '89 OPC probably depressed the value of what Theoren Fleury's and Gary Roberts' rookies could have been worth. (Neither were included in the Topps set.) >>



    Yes, Vending for sure, as i busted a case that year image >>



    I busted a cut case into sets, I think I got 22 sets out if it
    I collect Seattle Pilots autographs, 1969 Topps autographs, Signed Mickey Mantle Home Run History cards and have a JC Martin collection (he was my college Baseball coach)
    Doug
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Here's some updated pictures. Tom (tsalems1) is generously allowing me to piggyback on his upcoming submission (thanks again Tom!) so I have the 104 cards below going in the mail Monday. The breakdown of the submission is:

    104 cards
    46 Different Players (some doubles)
    16 Gretzky
    19 Sakic

    I'm submitting a lot of Gretzky and Sakic because they're graded so tough. I want to try to get it right the first try with them and I want the grader to have many to go over.

    This submission, as well as the next few, will be a learning experience for me. After some subs I'll start to understand what PSA looks for with this set. I have an idea, but I don't know until I've been there.

    My current setup is pictured below. When I open packs I save the ones well centered and move them to the closet. Then I go through them again, giving them a better look under my lamp and put good ones into cardsavers. Once in a cardsaver, they go into the box pictured. Whenever there's a PSA special taking place, and I can get cards graded for under $6, I'll sub 50-100 from the box. I have about 1400 in cardsavers and probably 2,000 more in the closet I need to go through. In the meantime I'll continue to buy boxes and rip packs image

    I have THOUSANDS of cards that I can't use. For now they're packed away in the shipping boxes from BBCE. And I have 12 boxes that I haven't opened yet. I may keep these sealed because I wasn't happy with the condition of the cards (great cards, few, if any 10s) and I believe they were all from the same case. If you guys need '89 Topps for set fillers, or whatever, let me know and I will be happy to send you what you need.

    Nathanael -- LOVE those signed cards! I've attached a pic of the ones I've bought off of eBay for my signed set. I realize yours may be sentimental to you, but if you ever want to part with them, let me know.

    Attached, too, are some Sakic and Gretzky cards. I just picked a few of the top of the pile so this is the overall condition of the sub for these players. Fingers crossed for at least one 10 of each!!

    Thanks guys,

    Patrick

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  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Picked up a case tonight on eBay for $400. Seems to be a decent price for a case.

    This will be my first case as the others were individual lots of boxes from multiple cases, so I'm really keeping my fingers crossed on the delivery and condition of the cards.

    Question: after opening one box do you believe the remaining 19 boxes will be similar to condition/quality as the first box?

  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Waiting on my first case...should be here by 7pm :-)
  • Truce buddy image

    The consensus is as far as I know, which could be nothing, is yes. Busted vending boxes at least, and the cut remains the same with some steady this way and that throughout. Have learned if buying single boxes, and one is horrific, yes then, don't buy from that same case if possible. Who the heck knows though.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Truce buddy image

    The consensus is as far as I know, which could be nothing, is yes. Busted vending boxes at least, and the cut remains the same with some steady this way and that throughout. Have learned if buying single boxes, and one is horrific, yes then, don't buy from that same case if possible. Who the heck knows though. >>



    Truce image

    Just got here! Looking forward to seeing what the first couple boxes look like. This may be a good opportunity to get some box-bottoms in decent shape. Gotta wait till the kid is asleep first, though!

    image
  • vintagefunvintagefun Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭
    I love the amount of ripping this project provides.

    Good Luck.
    Jim
    52-90 All Sports, Mostly Topps, Mostly HOF, and some assorted wax.
  • BenG76BenG76 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭
    I don't know much about hockey but this thread is awesome. I would get crossed eyed from looking at all them cards.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm in awe.
    Mike
  • Patrick - cool stuff, as always!

    Random question: what do you you use to take the photos with all-white backgrounds? Looks pretty professional. Do you use it just for eBay or do you use it for work too?
  • tsalems1tsalems1 Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭✭
    Good luck on the case break
    opcbaseball.com
  • jordangretzkyfanjordangretzkyfan Posts: 2,451 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Loving this thread...hope you land a bunch of 10's in that case!
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Thank you all very much image

    I opened one box last night and the cards look nice. Not the best box I've opened thus far, but there are some potentially nice, Minty 10s. Sakic and Gretzky cards look OK. Maybe PSA 8.5s.

    I figured for box-bottoms this would be the best way to find gradeable one. Not happening. I see why they're so tough to get in high grade.

    Casey, I use this light box. Have used a few before, but this one is by far the best one yet.

    Will post some scans later.

    Thanks again!
  • Nascar360Nascar360 Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭
    Have you found any Randy Cunneyworth errors?
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Have you found any Randy Cunneyworth errors? >>



    Zero.
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    1989 OPC had an incredibly large print run for its time. Considering that at the time of the 1989 OPC set printing there was no beckett price guide and no massive interest in hockey cards south of the border, it was perplexing as to how much product was printed.

    I think they were trying to meet what they thought would be the demand. OPC hurt themselves in 1988- they could've sold a ton more product with the Hull RC and Gretzky Kings cards bringing hockey to the forefront. The '88 OPC Hull was a huge card in early 1989. There was a reasonable expectation that the '89 product would sell extremely well so they let the presses run.

    Lee
  • Are you sure ? NO WAY a card company started to overprint in the late 80's is there ?
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