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Warren Buffet would definitely NOT be a buyer of gold coins
Prethen
Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭
Prethen
Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭
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-KHayse
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
One could easily point out all the pitfalls of "investing"/gambling in the stock market or ETFs, especially for Joe 6pack:
- bankruptcy
- dishonest CEOs, brokers, etc
- insider trading
- outright scams (Bre-X, MF Global)
My gold might not "produce" anything, but that doesn't mean it's not worth owning at least some.
I actually like seeing overly pessmistic articles like this one. As per Warren Buffet's own wisdom: "Be fearful when others are greedy, be greedy when others are fearful". Public sentiment of gold being worthless may very well benefit those who don't listen to that sentiment.
<< <i>Warren Buffet will never be among the people I greatly admire for a number of reasons. If he finds those us who enjoy collecting gold coins to be weird, my feelings toward him are mutual. I find him, as a person who has made a great fortune from the capitalist system for himself and an exclusive group other people, to be weird when comes to his attitudes toward public policy. >>
He didn't say he hates "gold coins," but one who buys gold in hopes for the greater fool to buy it from them for a higher price at some future date.
And I agree with him on that. Gold may have been a means to protect wealth during the middle ages, but that was a long time ago.
If one person owned all the gold in the world, just imagine what modern electronics would cost to make. Producers of them would bid up gold to insane prices in order to keep pumping out iPhones, TVs, etc.
I don't think it pertains to coin collecting as a hobby.
The stackers may want to listen up but The pure collectors can ignore.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Dave
Warren Buffet ... I find him, as a person who has made a great fortune from the capitalist system for himself and an exclusive group other people
BillJones ... please
"exclusive group of other people"?
Berkshire Hathaway is a publicly traded corporation.
> anyone can own a share of this fine corporation
> many, many people do own shares, either directly, or through their mutual funds, pensions, or 401(k) interests
Why rant at Capitalism. What economic system do you think is preferable...Communism, Socialism, Marxism?
Latin American Collection
Coins are a simple luxury. Enjoying the history of them or having "types" or series, or some to hold isn't so bad. How big was that rock compared to the gold holding the ring on any man's spouse ? And that's a rock.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
(1) The earliest data that Kitco has for daily gold charts is for May 20, 1999 (not long after Mr. Buffett's Harvard speech). That chart shows the previous day's NY close for gold at $272.80/oz., on May 19, 1999. Fast forward to September 19, 2014, where the NY close for gold was $1,216.20/oz. Since Buffett's anti-gold speech, the precious yellow metal is now worth almost 4.5 times what it was worth on May 19, 1999 -- over 15 years and 4 months. That's a compounded rate of return of almost 11% per year -- even with gold's pull-back over the last few years.
(2) I don't consider gold bullion-type investments as anything more than a way to round-out an investment portfolio. A truly diversified portfolio has many different types of investment products, which often move in opposite directions to other investments in the portfolio. Indeed, that's what provides the diversity.
(3) Gold is a commodity that has uses in business and industry, similar to other commodities. Sure, one can't eat gold, but it can provide the material for a tooth crown, a wedding ring, gold investment products, gold-leaf for steeples, pharmaceuticals, electronics, etc. Does Mr. Buffett see no merit in any of these uses?
(4) Even though I have refuted Mr. Buffett's "gold is good for nothing" claim in number (3), why is gold in a safe deposit box any more "lifeless" than a stock certificate in the same box? As the money that purchased the stock certificate has been invested in corporate America, similarly the money paid for the gold is busy at work in the U. S. economy -- having been spent or invested by the person or firm selling the gold.
(5) Getting back to why I invest in precious metals (along with a lot of other things), I consider gold an "insurance" on my investment portfolio, much as I have homeowner's insurance on my house. A quick look at history shows that owning gold in hard times can indeed help feed one's family.
<< <i>I lost respect for Buffet when he claimed he pays less taxes than his secretary. >>
IIRC, he was referring to his effective tax rate as being less than his secretary's. I expect that the dollar amount he paid is considerably more than most posters here paid.
I expect that if he sent the IRS a check for $1 Billion that it would about cover a week's worth of our meddling in the Middle East.
<< <i>Why would he buy gold coins when he can buy successful businesses producing huge amounts of cash? >>
To drive the price up soes he can sell em for a profit?
<< <i> I consider gold an "insurance" on my investment portfolio, much as I have homeowner's insurance on my house. A quick look at history shows that owning gold in hard times can indeed help feed one's family. >>
Insurance against what?
When was the last time that gold was the primary means to feed ones family? Having a farm that produces basic staples most likely did the same.
We are living in the 21st Century and what was the norm 100, 200+ years ago, is no longer applicable. The governments of the Industrialized Nations saw to that.
<< <i>This guy gets more respect than he deserves in my opinion. He talks about productivity making wealth be he throws his political support to a party that believes in punishing productivity and says to those who produce "you did not build that". He probably owes much of he success to those working for him who are way smarter. My take on articles like this is that someone shorted gold and are trying to take advantage of its recent weakness by rolling out the old showboat to drive it down more. >>
And which party would that be? The one that fights against single payer health care and increased minimum wage for hard working americans that are the base of our economy and productivity? Do tell?
Best, SH
<< <i>RE:
Warren Buffet ... I find him, as a person who has made a great fortune from the capitalist system for himself and an exclusive group other people
BillJones ... please
"exclusive group of other people"?
Berkshire Hathaway is a publicly traded corporation.
> anyone can own a share of this fine corporation
> many, many people do own shares, either directly, or through their mutual funds, pensions, or 401(k) interests
Why rant at Capitalism. What economic system do you think is preferable...Communism, Socialism, Marxism? >>
I am huge supporter of capitalism. What I don't like about Mr. Buffet is his political support for left wing, sometimes far left wing, political candidates. I don't care for those who say, "I've got mine, but I support candidates who will make harder for you to make yours."
As for his company it was my understanding that it is a closed end investment group that caters to a select group of very connected investors. Since it seems that all can benefit from his genus, I'll retract that part of statement if in fact one can access his talents with a stock purchase.
I still don't like the guy for reasons stated earlier.
<< <i>
<< <i>This guy gets more respect than he deserves in my opinion. He talks about productivity making wealth be he throws his political support to a party that believes in punishing productivity and says to those who produce "you did not build that". He probably owes much of he success to those working for him who are way smarter. My take on articles like this is that someone shorted gold and are trying to take advantage of its recent weakness by rolling out the old showboat to drive it down more. >>
And which party would that be? The one that fights against single payer health care and increased minimum wage for hard working americans that are the base of our economy and productivity? Do tell?
Best, SH >>
Single payer.
The Federal Government has done such a great job with veterans' health care that I really REALLY want them to run the whole system ... NOT!!!!!
Get real!
As the minimum wage, sure you can set it higher, but all you will do is push more low skilled workers into unemployment and make life harder for small business, which accounts for half of the economy, but if it is raised, you'll feel better ... Right?
<< <i>
<< <i> I consider gold an "insurance" on my investment portfolio, much as I have homeowner's insurance on my house. A quick look at history shows that owning gold in hard times can indeed help feed one's family. >>
Insurance against what?
When was the last time that gold was the primary means to feed ones family? Having a farm that produces basic staples most likely did the same.
We are living in the 21st Century and what was the norm 100, 200+ years ago, is no longer applicable. The governments of the Industrialized Nations saw to that. >>
It's basically investment portfolio insurance. The principle of a diversified investment portfolio is that it is filled with counter-balancing investment products that often move in opposite directions. For example, when the stock market was tanking in the fall of 2008, with the Dow Industrials falling from 14,000 to 6,500 (an over 50% decline in a matter of a few months), gold was steady as a rock (and soon began rising rapidly). Having a position in gold kept one's overall portfolio from falling as much during the last major stock market crash. The investment theory of diversification is not a new idea. Gold has been a store of value since ancient times and is always worth something (unlike some recent stock certificates).
As far as feeding one's family, gold is not the primary means. However, it can play a part, as it can easily be converted to cash or goods.
<< <i>
<< <i> I consider gold an "insurance" on my investment portfolio, much as I have homeowner's insurance on my house. A quick look at history shows that owning gold in hard times can indeed help feed one's family. >>
Insurance against what?
When was the last time that gold was the primary means to feed ones family? Having a farm that produces basic staples most likely did the same.
We are living in the 21st Century and what was the norm 100, 200+ years ago, is no longer applicable. The governments of the Industrialized Nations saw to that. >>
Yes! Exactly!
This isn't a hundred years ago when everyone could live off the land if the
bankers succeed in destroying the infrastructure and the entire economy. Of
course gold isn't as solid insurance as iut once was for exactly this reason
since you can't eat. Those surviving a collapse whether it's local or gener-
al will eventually need to reestablish a currency and it's a safe bet that bonds,
stocks (even Bershire Hathaway), and dollars will all be worthless except a
few rare dates and silver and gold.
There's no question that gold will outperform almost all other assets as infla-
tion destroys an economy and asset values and it will still have value on the
other side of any event. Investors should keep a small percentage of their
total welth in gold and this percentage should be highest in inflationary times
after it has been accumulated in non-inflationary times.
Right now you can't earn any interest anyway and the stock market is high
enough to be risky which means it should be a good time to be padding one's
gold stocks.
On the other hand gold might very well be a good insurance, much like stock options can be. Nothing wrong with that in a diversified portfolio.
As to the other political stuff: He does have a good take on how the taxes work in this country. Sure it's a progressive tax system but most wealthy people don't the larger percentages from employment but often make their money selling assets at the lower cap gains rates. Which is a lot lower rater than the rest of us monkeys.
jom
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
<< <i>
<< <i>I lost respect for Buffet when he claimed he pays less taxes than his secretary. >>
IIRC, he was referring to his effective tax rate as being less than his secretary's.
That statement was made I believe to perpetuate the myth believed by the uneducated that the wealthy do not pay taxes. This confusion perpetuates class hatred and could even lead to violence. You would think that a man who believes in business and wealth producing productivity would have reminded people that the top 10% of earners pay about 70% of all tax revenue instead of playing word games.
Gold has been good to me.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>
<< <i>I lost respect for Buffet when he claimed he pays less taxes than his secretary. >>
IIRC, he was referring to his effective tax rate as being less than his secretary's.
That statement was made I believe to perpetuate the myth believed by the uneducated that the wealthy do not pay taxes. This confusion perpetuates class hatred and could even lead to violence. You would think that a man who believes in business and wealth producing productivity would have reminded people that the top 10% of earners pay about 70% of all tax revenue instead of playing word games. >>
Yep. The Gubmint knows that the best place to get money is from the people who have money.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I lost respect for Buffet when he claimed he pays less taxes than his secretary. >>
IIRC, he was referring to his effective tax rate as being less than his secretary's.
That statement was made I believe to perpetuate the myth believed by the uneducated that the wealthy do not pay taxes. This confusion perpetuates class hatred and could even lead to violence. You would think that a man who believes in business and wealth producing productivity would have reminded people that the top 10% of earners pay about 70% of all tax revenue instead of playing word games. >>
Well stated. Statements like this from Buffet are an example of why I don't care for his positions. I guess he wants to raise his own taxes along with every American who "pulls the wagon" in this country. If Mr. Buffet does not think that he is paying enough, then he should send a big check to the U.S. Treasury and leave the rest of us alone.
<< <i>
Well stated. Statements like this from Buffet are an example of why I don't care for his positions. I guess he wants to raise his own taxes along with every American who "pulls the wagon" in this country. If Mr. Buffet does not think that he is paying enough, then he should send a big check to the U.S. Treasury and leave the rest of us alone. >>
The problem isn't the top 10% paying the taxes.
The problem is the top 1% who hire tax attorneys and rent congressmen* to assure they stay in the top 1%.
* you know the old joke; an "honest politician" is one who stays bought.
On the other hand, rare coins are something very different. I see them as a relatively fixed share of society's accrued wealth.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I will be buying more shortly as my lowly CD's at the bank are paying .03 on some and .12 on some others. lol
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>Some of you guys are seriously deluded if you think that the multimillionaires/billionaires pay anything close to the top federal tax rate. I know that using a recent well published example , I certainly paid a higher percentage than Govenor Romney paid in 2011 (14.1%). Unfortunately there are no significant write offs / loopholes for me other than my kids and my mortgage. >>
It really had nothing to do with loopholes. Romney paid only 14% because of the TYPE of income he had which was mostly based on capital gains...which as we all know is a lower FLAT rate. This was the kind of thing Buffet refers to and I agree with him.
BTW, Romney did NOTHING wrong or unethical. He took advantage of the tax code. I do it when I can and so should everyone else.
jom
And why should they?.....if you were one of them there millionaires/billionaires, you would find every "legal" tax loophole available to you.
So what if you paid a higher percentage than Romney(can I mention Reid and Pelosi for balance?).....Mitt Romney probably paid more in taxes than you will earn in a lifetime.
edited to add: I really don't see how anyone could disagree with Bill Jones's comments.
Feeling good about raising the minimum wage, or providing more government run anything is a formula for disaster. I really enjoyed your comments, Bill.
<< <i>RE:
Warren Buffet ... I find him, as a person who has made a great fortune from the capitalist system for himself and an exclusive group other people
BillJones ... please
"exclusive group of other people"?
Berkshire Hathaway is a publicly traded corporation.
> anyone can own a share of this fine corporation
> many, many people do own shares, either directly, or through their mutual funds, pensions, or 401(k) interests
Why rant at Capitalism. What economic system do you think is preferable...Communism, Socialism, Marxism? >>
Sounds pretty exclusive to me. And I guess you are correct that anyone can own a share. But currently one share of Berkshire Hathaway Class A common stock is $212,000. Not exactly a stock for the common man.
There is a Class B stock that is priced at about $140 but that is a tracking stock without full voting rights (1/10,000 of a share).
I guess many people own shares of the A stock but at $212,000 per share there is little to no shares held in mutual funds, pensions or 401 (k) accounts.
Just thought I would throw a few facts into the discussion.
If you're not familiar with the family of companies and the company he keeps you've probably missed the boat but it's never too late to learn.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The problem is the top 1% who hire tax attorneys and rent congressmen* to assure they stay in the top 1%.
Just a quick look-up and most sources say that the top 1% chip in from 30% to 37% of all the revenue the IRS takes in. That is a pretty good chunk of doe for a relatively small group of people. These wealthy are often a source of funds for business development (and charity too by the way) so why is this so-called businessman who hates cold dead gold because it is unproductive want the government to take the money and create more unproductive dependents with the money that could be used to create jobs?
<< <i>Some of you guys are seriously deluded if you think that the multimillionaires/billionaires pay anything close to the top federal tax rate. I know that using a recent well published example , I certainly paid a higher percentage than Govenor Romney paid in 2011 (14.1%). Unfortunately there are no significant write offs / loopholes for me other than my kids and my mortgage. >>
If Romney had paid his taxes at a rate you think is appropriate, would that have made you life better? I worry about issues that kept me in a job when I was working and help me earn a retirement income now.
As others have said it is the capital gains tax, which is designed to encourage investors to take chances. And if you have capital losses, you need gains to offset them to equal the tax advantage of the system. I know because I have been there.
<< <i>
<< <i> I consider gold an "insurance" on my investment portfolio, much as I have homeowner's insurance on my house. A quick look at history shows that owning gold in hard times can indeed help feed one's family. >>
Insurance against what?
When was the last time that gold was the primary means to feed ones family? Having a farm that produces basic staples most likely did the same.
We are living in the 21st Century and what was the norm 100, 200+ years ago, is no longer applicable. The governments of the Industrialized Nations saw to that. >>
Insurance against what? Here, let someone else answer that:
In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.
This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.
"Gold and Economic Freedom" by Alan Greenspan 1967
<< <i>
<< <i>RE:
Warren Buffet ... I find him, as a person who has made a great fortune from the capitalist system for himself and an exclusive group other people
BillJones ... please
"exclusive group of other people"?
Berkshire Hathaway is a publicly traded corporation.
> anyone can own a share of this fine corporation
> many, many people do own shares, either directly, or through their mutual funds, pensions, or 401(k) interests
Why rant at Capitalism. What economic system do you think is preferable...Communism, Socialism, Marxism? >>
Sounds pretty exclusive to me. And I guess you are correct that anyone can own a share. But currently one share of Berkshire Hathaway Class A common stock is $212,000. Not exactly a stock for the common man.
There is a Class B stock that is priced at about $140 but that is a tracking stock without full voting rights (1/10,000 of a share).
I guess many people own shares of the A stock but at $212,000 per share there is little to no shares held in mutual funds, pensions or 401 (k) accounts.
Just thought I would throw a few facts into the discussion. >>
Yea, $212,000 a share definitely keeps the riff-raff out of the neighborhood. I wonder if you can buy one share or if they are only sold in standard blocks of 100?
<< <i>If one buys Mr. Buffett's argument that gold has no inherent worth, that owning gold has no virtue and is only an enterprise for "fools," then answer this question: Why has the U. S. Government made the U. S. Gold Bullion Depository at Fort Knox the most secure place on the face of the earth? >>
It is not the gold value. They just don't want anyone to find out there is nothing there.