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Hansen watch.

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  • goldengolden Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A beautiful Half Dollar!

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Civil War Era Half Dollar Update

    This was written in the past weekend’s Legend Market Report: Its nice to have a lull to catch up and rest. The next explosion of the coin market will be the week of April 20-24th when its auction time. Judging by the eye balls, registrants and early bidding, we fully expect our Regency 44 sale to set many record prices-ditto for the Heritage sales. This temporary lull is a great time for collectors to step back, assess their goals, clean out their duplicates, and set their sights on adding to their collections. You have seen a lull the past couple weeks with my D.L. Hansen Updates. There has been a significant purchase made, but I am waiting on a press release before posting any updates on the purchase. Will we see any significant purchases from the Legend and Heritage sale this week? Only time will tell.

    Today, I did see a nice little upgrade to the Hansen Civil War Collection. Legends wrote: Last, think about this, there are NO quality coins available currently. The word NO is a pretty definitive number. There are some people that may say this new Hansen coin purchased in the Great Collections Auction is not a “quality coin” because it does not have a CAC sticker. In my opinion, it is a nice upgrade in a high quality collection.

    The D.L. Hansen Circulation Strikes Set is certainly amazing. The 110-piece set with gold may the finest ever assembled. The set grade range is XF45 to MS68+. There are two coins with grades below AU53, 1864 $2-1/2 POP 5/9 and 1864-S $10 POP 4/9. There are 66 coins GEM or better (60%) and 84 coins Choice or better (76.4%). The set has 55 coins that are certified finest by PCGS (50%) with 32 sole finest certified by PCGS (29%). The set has only fourteen coins that are not PCGS POP Top Five. The coin purchase in Sunday’s night auction replaced an 1863-S 50C MS64 PCGS Pop 18/13 coin.

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/complete-sets/complete-specialty-sets/civil-war-set-gold-circulation-strikes-1861-1865/alltimeset/150789

    1863-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS65

    Expert Ron Guth commented: The 1863-S Half Dollar is relatively common in circulated grades, moderately scarce in Mint State, but very rare above MS64. This scenario is typical of most San Francisco Mint issues of the period because of their distance from the East Coast and the relatively few collectors who cared about mintmarks. The luster on 1863-S Half Dollars is usually brilliant to satiny. The strike quality is generally good, but sometimes the stars at the top of the obverse can be weak...the same is true of the denticles on both sides. One might expect these coins to be "baggy" from excessive transporting, but such is not the case.

    Coin Facts Rarity and Survival Estimates for coin in MS65 or better is one. NGC reports two MS65 with one MS66 finer. PCGS shows two MS65. Therefore, it appears Coin Facts estimate is probably a little off. This Great Collections sale is the first time a MS65 PCGS has appeared in auction. Also, the NGC MS66 has never appeared in auction. The two MS65 NGC specimens have appeared in auction five times between 1998 and 2014. In the Heritage June 2014 Eugene H. Gardner Sale, the Ex: Benson III/Robert Blaugrund specimen set the Auction Record of $9,106.25. The Hansen MS65 PCGS specimen realized $17,499.38 with buyer’s fees. I don’t think Auction Records obtained in Great Collections Auctions are updated on the PCGS website.

    There is not any additional pedigree known for the Hansen coin. The coin has a mostly untoned appearance and look to have a good strike. I cannot find any recent offerings in the marketplace for the coin. It does not appear to be the same coin from the Gardner sale. The Hansen and Gardner coins are the only two coins that I can find images and confirmed. This is certainly a nice upgrade to the D.L. Hansen Collection.

    Provenance: Internet Sale, (Great Collections 4/2021), GC Item ID: 968842, realized $17,499.38 (Auction Record), D.L. Hansen Collection.

    1863-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS65
    PCGS POP 2/0, Tied with one other as finest by PCGS
    Certification #41235682, PCGS #6310
    PCGS Price Guide Value: $18,500 / Realized $17,499.38

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice to see all the great provenances getting incorporated into the Hansen Collection :+1:

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,132 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So the purchase and the sale by DLRC are two separate events and not DLRC representing Hansen in the acquisition? I'm curious if DLRC searches on behalf of DH for open DH collection slots or just opportunistically buys coins independently that happen to be of interest to DH?

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps you should have included as a side note that the PCGS Registry set includes only those minted from 1908. 1907 Rolled edge proofs exist and have been certified by PCGS and if they were included in the registry set composition, then there would be practically no 100% completions of the set........except possibly for Simpson who does own a 2007 Rolled Edge $10 Eagle.

    OINK

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2021 7:13PM

    One of the really neat things about the Gerald Forsythe collections is the Rarities holders. I wonder if Dell Loy will be going in this direction?

    It is a bit unfortunate that the CAC sticker is placed over Lady Liberty's face on the insert when there's so much unused space.


  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 29, 2021 2:06PM

    The Gerald Forsythe Collection of PCGS Indian Head Proof Eagles – Part III

    WOW, WOW, WOW! To find a 1915 so fresh and original is very, very rare. Legend 4/2021

    The purchase of the four coins placed the D.L. Hansen collection three steps closer in completing a set of 20th century proof gold. To do so, is not easily done. Being the Eagle set is only eight coins, it is easy to determine values from the PCGS Guide Price. The problem is that I don’t think the guide price is correct. According to price realized, the Gerald Forsythe Collection of PCGS Indian Head Proof Eagles should be valued at $1,609,750. According to PCGS Guide Price, the set valued is $1,185,000. This would indicate the eight-piece CAC Approved set realized a 36% premium. So, you can see just the Basic Indian Head Proof Eagles can be an expensive start to the 20th Century Proof Gold Collection.

    The Hansen Collection remains without a 1910 example. It is not that Mr. Hansen did not want the Gerald Forsythe 1910 PR67+ specimen. The bidding was strong and the only way to be stated, Mr. Hansen was outbid. I do not know who won the coin, but I guessing the Tryant may have been a player as well. His 1910 specimen is a PCGS PR65, so he could very well be content with what he has, but would not be surprise to see this coin as an upgrade to his Eagle Collection. PCGS Guide Price valued the 1910 at $200,000. The coin realized $376,000, the most pricy coin in the Legend Regency Auction 44. This price realized was a whopping 88% premium. The coin was very important to someone besides Mr. Hansen.

    As can be seen in the screenshot image, three coins were new additions: 1909, 1913, and 1914. The 1915 was an upgrade to a previous 1915 PR65, Cert #40002873. Five of the Hansen coins are solid PCGS Top Five Condition Census, with the 1913 PR67 tied with two other coins as finest by PCGS. The coin that I will feature today is the 1915 upgrade.

    1915 Indian Head Proof Eagle, PR66, CAC, Ex: Gerald Forsythe Collection

    The mintage given for the 1915 Indian Head Proof Eagle is 75 examples. Coin Facts survival estimates 41 specimens, with 16 GEM 65 or Better. The PCGS PR65 population is six, none PR65+, five at PR66 and the sole finest PR66+. The Hansen/Forsythe PR66 Specimen has a POP of 5/1. The POP 1/0 is the PR66+ specimen from The Spectacular 1915 Proof Set that sold in the Heritage January 2021 FUN US Coins Signature Auction. The coin realized $132,000. Mr. Hansen paid $141,000 for the Gerald Forsythe specimen. The POP 1/0 is not CAC Approved. Do you think Mr. Hansen was wise to pass up on the POP 1/0 for less cost? The NGC population of GEM coins is 19. There are seven PR65, nine PR66, and three PR67. As stated before, I would expect some of these are resubmittals. The Tyrant 1915 Specimen is one of the NGC PR67 specimens.

    The Legend Auctioneer described the coin as: WOW, WOW, WOW! To find a 1915 so fresh and original is very, very rare. This coin is tied for second FINEST known. We consider this coin to be VERY HIGH END! Remarkable original sandblast Matte surfaces are a delight to behold all over. Only when using a strong glass can you see a few faint small shiny areas. Nothing is visible to the naked eye. The color is a moderate deep gold. Miss Liberty and the entire strike are just incredible. Even the stars on the rim stand out! The eye appeal of this SUPERB GEM is fantastic! Only 75 were minted. PCGS has graded only a PR66+ higher. No PCGS CAC piece has ever been sold via auction. In fact, the last piece to sell that way was a non CAC which brought $99,875.00 12/2014! 7 LONG years ago. What is this worth today? We shall find out. Be prepared to pay much more then $99,000.00! This maybe your only chance to obtain a PCGS CAC PR66.

    The purchase of the Gerald Forsythe 1915 Indian Head Proof Eagle is a new Auction Record, even though a PCGS POP 1/0 specimen just sold a couple months before. Legend estimated the coin would realize $100,000 to $120,000. PCGS Price Guide values the coin as $115,000 which may have been the foundation of the Legend estimate. As stated, the coin realized $141,000 resulting in a nice premium.

    We will conclude the discussion on the new purchases from Gerald R. Forsythe Collection in the next posting. It appears Mr. Hansen, John Brush, and his team is always looking ahead in making decisions on purchases. Does he have his eyes on an upcoming 1910 opportunity, or will he just have to patiently wait for another high end example to hit the market. It should be fun to watch and see.

    Provenance: Gerald R. Forsythe / Regency 44 Auction (Legend 4/2021), lot 374, realized $141,000, D.L. Hansen Collection.

    1915 Indian Head Proof Eagle, PR66
    PCGS POP 5/1, CAC Approved
    Certification #37917402, PCGS #8897
    PCGS Price Guide $110,000 / Realized $141,000
    Ex: Gerald Forsythe Collection

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Gerald Forsythe Collection of PCGS Indian Head Proof Eagles – Part IV

    Today we are wrapping up the Indian Head Proof Eagles purchased in the Gerald Forsythe sale hosted by Legend Rare Coin Auctions. This has been a fun little eight-piece set. We should come back at least one more time when the last coin (1910) is added. I thought I would wrap up today with a discussion that you have not seen before. PCGS has a little boutique set that we have not discussed before. The set requires 32 pieces, 20th Century Gold Series (1908-1915) Proof set. PCGS describes the set as: The 20th Century Gold Series Set of proofs consists of the 8 issues made in proof for the $2-1/2 Indian, $5 Indian, $10 Indian, and $20 St. Gaudens series. These proofs were issued from 1908 to 1915. They have long been collected as "Matte Proof Gold" sets, but this is somewhat of a misnomer in that while the 1908 and 1911 to 1915 issues were Matte proofs, the 1909 and 1910 issues are actually Roman Finish proofs. Each of the four 8 coin series is a challenge and the combined complete set is a difficult set to assemble. Some of the issues have original mintages as low as only 50 coins struck. The key dates in each series are the 1914 and 1915, along with the 1909 and 1910 Roman Finish proofs. But all of these 32 coins are truly rare.

    Mr. Hansen is the only active player in this set registry. Are there currently others not in the registry? I am not sure. Bob Simpson was once a player, but I don’t think he is anymore. He still have his eagles, but not sure he still have the other series. The registry lists three non-PCGS era collectors, Louis Eliasberg, Waldo Newcomer and the Garrett Collection. Ed Trompeter is listed as the only PCGS Era collector. Have there been more, I would think so. Are there any today, maybe.

    The D.L. Hansen Collection is completed for $2-1/2 Indian Proofs. In fact he has two completed registry sets that rank #2 and #4 on the PCGS All-Time Finest Leaderboard. In the $5 Indian Proof set, he is missing the 1911. Ruth Guth describes the coin as: The Matte Proof 1911 $5 is a very rare and desirable coin with a most unusual finish. With the right addition, the Hansen Collection set can obtain the #1 All-Time Spot. I have detailed the $10 Indian Proof Set in the last few days. As a remainder, the only coin missing is the 1910. The St. Gaudens $20 Set requires the most work. Three coins are still needed, 1910, 1911, and 1913.

    The Hansen Collection has 27 of the required 32 coins to complete the 20th Century Gold Series set. He added three with the recent purchase from the Gerald Forsythe sale. We will need to watch and see if any other opportunities are out there.

    1913 Indian Head Proof Eagle, PR67, CAC, Ex: Gerald Forsythe Collection

    The mintage given for the 1913 Indian Head Proof Eagle is 71 examples. Coin Facts survival estimates 46 specimens, with 17 GEM 65 or Better. The PCGS PR65 population is four. In addition, there are four in PR66, three in PR67 and none finer. The Hansen/Forsythe PR67 Specimen has a POP of 3/0. The NGC population of GEM coins is 20! There are seven PR65, six PR66, five PR67, and two graded PR68. I would expect some of these are resubmits. The Tyrant Specimen is a NGC PR66 specimen which only inferior grade comparing the four Hansen/Forsythe Specimens.

    The Legend Auctioneer described the coin as: Even those that are not brilliant Proofs, sometimes they can still be outstanding. This coin is beyond that, and is tied with just two other coins for FINEST KNOWN! We also say this coin is VERY HIGH END! Marvelous sandblast finish surfaces are uninterrupted. The surfaces beneath are perfect. As typical for the date (from the alloy mix) both sides enjoy an original deeper olive gold color. There are NO flecks or discolorations anywhere. Miss Liberty and every detail are needle sharp in strike and boldly stand out. The eye appeal is attention grabbing! There is no auction record for any PCGS PR67 ever selling. Somehow the current Collectors Universe Value is $195,000. The rarity of ANY Matte Proof $10 in such a lofty grade like this is UNDER-rated. These simply to NOT exist with a CAC bean. If you seek a Type coin, a great piece for a $10 set, or if you just buy super rare coins, then this is your piece! Good luck! The auctioneer noted there are only two CAC Approved specimens and this coin could very well be both.

    Legend estimated the coin would realize $175,000 to $200,000. PCGS Price Guide values the coin as $195,000. The coin realized $217,375 which was the third highest price for a Forsythe Eagle realized.

    The Hansen participation in last week’s Legend Regency Auction 44 appeared to have concentrated on coins from only two collections. First, the Gerald R. Forsythe Eagles and the other was the Boylston Collection of Half Dollars. There were two or three fun purchases from that sale that we can look into in the next few days.

    Provenance: Gerald R. Forsythe / Regency 44 Auction (Legend 4/2021), lot 372, realized $217,375, D.L. Hansen Collection.

    1913 Indian Head Proof Eagle, PR667
    PCGS POP 3/0, CAC Approved
    Certification #37917400, PCGS #8895
    PCGS Price Guide $195,000 / Realized $217,375
    Ex: Gerald Forsythe Collection

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beyond my budget, but as a matter of curiosity, when I see photos and descriptions such as this I wonder: what holds the grade back? I assume there are minute imperfections that the TV doesn't capture and are too trivial to mention in an auction catalogue - but wow, sure looks perfect in the photograph. Are these held to a higher standard perhaps?

  • RedCopperRedCopper Posts: 173 ✭✭✭

    Hey Currin - when are you going to post DL Hansen’s purchase of the
    Pete Miller collection of Proof
    Half Cents and Large Cents ?
    Those are some fantastic coins !

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Boylston Collection of Seated Half Dollars, Part III

    A prestigious provenance of owners including David Queller (2002) and Eugene Gardner - Legend Rare Coin Auction 44

    Today, we will wrap up the Seated Liberty Half Dollars purchased in the Boylston sale. If you have been watching the posting on Hansen watch, you will know the Seated Half Dollars are just one set in the overall collection that Dell Loy Hansen is building. Actually, he has already built probably 95% of the collection, but the sets continue to improve when coins from other collections come available. As with the Boylston Collection of Seated Half Dollars, Mr. Hansen had the opportunity to improve a few of the coins, and he successful did so with seven specimens. I mentioned earlier, D.L. Hansen Collection achieved the Registry All-Time Finest Seated Liberty Half Dollar set in September 2017 when passing Louis Eliasberg on the All-Time Finest Leaderboard. The set was a great set in fall of 2017, and he could have pulled a stop on the set. When the set achieved first place all-time in 2017, it had a GPA of 61.290. This set consists of 113 coins; Mr. Hansen logged 175 swaps since achieving first place status on September 2017. This means little over 150% of the coins have been replaced which equates every coin replaced about one and one-half times. The set has improved to a GPA of 64.886. This is not a study that I have attempted to analyzed, but I would call this as normal without digging deeper. Naturally, this rate for upgrades does not cross the board for all sets. Example, I think early coinage and gold will have a lower upgraded rate.

    Just a couple months ago I shared this view for this first time. I updated the chart. The only major change is the Seated Half Dollars crossed the MS64 threshold and now 64.03. Is a GPA of 65 possible? I am not sure, but if I had to guess, I don’t think the set is done yet. There are only three replaceable coins below the choice GEM, MS63. They are 1871-CC (XF45), 1872-CC (AU50), and 1855-S Arrows (MS62). There are 13 coins that are not PCGS Top Five Condition Census, so there is some room there.

    As for the Half Dollars Collection, the collection does have room for upward improvement in three of the series, #7 ATF - Flowing Hair / Draped Bust (1794-1807), #6 ATF - Capped Bust (1807-1839), and #4 ATF - Walking Liberty (1916-1947). In the Legend Rare Coins Auction that we have discussed the past couple weeks, Mr. Hansen passed on the opening bid ($3.06 Million with buyer fees) for the Forsythe Set. The purchase with Hansen’s existing coins would have compelled the set to first place. Interesting, The Lulu Collection, the #1 all-time finest PCGS Walking Liberty Half Dollars Short Set will be featured in the upcoming June 2021 Costa Mesa Auction hosted by Stacks Bowers. This 20 lot set has 19 coins finest certified by PCGS with four sole finest POP 1/0. If the Forsythe Set is offered individually, and now with the Lulu set, I would not be surprised to see some upward movement in the Walking Liberty. The top spot may not be a Hansen goal, but upgrades are.

    Let’s circle back to the Seated Liberty Half Dollars. Legend Auction recently released: Our two day sale begins with 181 lots from the second part of the Boyleston Collection. Containing a wide range of Mint State and Proof Seated Liberty quarters and half dollars and a selection of Seated Liberty half dollar patterns, this second part will delight the most advanced collector, as well as the beginner, and everyone in between. Coins pedigreed to famed collections like Richmond, Dick Osburn, Pittman, and others connect the present owner to owners of generations past. There are common coins, condition rarities, and ultra rare Proofs from the 1840s. When it comes to Seated Liberty Half Dollars, certainly Dell Loy Hansen falls in the most advanced collector. I am not sure how many coins are in the second part that would improve the collection. Lastly, I do have a Boylston coin to feature today.

    1857-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS66, CAC, Ex: Boylston Collection

    Expert Ron Guth describes this date as: The 1857-S Half Dollar is a low-mintage date that is scarce in all grades and rare in Mint State. Only three dates in the 1850s have lower mintages: 1853-O No Arrows, 1852, and 1852-O. Price-wise, the 1857-S compares favorably with 1852-O and 1856-S, but on the high-end, it really takes off. The best 1857-S Half Dollar is a PCGS MS66 that sold recently out of the Gene Gardner collection for $61,687.50. This impressive coin is finest known by a full two points.

    With a mintage of only 158,000, Coin Facts survival estimates 450 specimens, with twelve mint states, and only one GEM MS65 or Better. The PCGS MS65 population is zero, with one MS66. Ron Guth statement remains correct today; the finest known coin is a full two points better that the other two PCGS MS64 specimens. The only oddity, James B. Pryor coin with an estimated grade of MS65 appeared in a 1996 Bowers & Merena sale. Maybe a little more research is warrantied.

    The Hansen/ Boylston MS66 Specimen have a POP of 1/0 and has appeared in auction at least three times in the past two decades. First in October 2002 in a Stacks Auction for the The Queller Family Collection. The coin was described as uncertified GEM BU. It realized $25,300. Stacks noted the coin previously appeared in Stack's Auction, 2/76, lot 710. There are no other details available.

    The next appearance was Heritage June 2014 Signature Auction of The Eugene H. Gardner Collection of US Coins in New York. At the sale, the coin was described as “Finest Certified by Two Points”. This still leaves me questioning the James B. Pryor coin. The new Hansen coin was described as: A frosty, silver-white example with a dusting of russet-brown toning at the margins on the obverse and some larger areas of coloration on the reverse. Bright silver luster visits the fields and central devices for nice flash when the coin is rotated under light. A few tiny marks in the field near Liberty's shoulder and above the eagle's head are minor and do not detract from this boldly struck Premium Gem example. Flatness on star 8 is the only area of strike that is not crisp and full. Just nine Mint State coins are reported by PCGS and NGC combined, underscoring the rarity of this low-mintage San Francisco issue. This example is head and shoulders above the others in terms of numeric grade and technical quality. Original surfaces show exceptionally few flaws, and the coin retains much of its just-minted freshness. The coin was CAC Approved and realized $61,687.50.

    In the Boylston sale held 4/21/2021, Legend Rare Coins Auction describes the coin as: FINEST KNOWN! Breathtaking originality. Delicate wisps of amber and gold toning accent remarkably clean fields rolling with mint bloom and frost when you twirl the coin in the light. Exceptional strike with all of the design elements fully struck up. If not for a tick or two near star 5, this coin would be completely flawless. Exceedingly rare in Mint State grades. This piece blows away any other examples of the date and mint, with MS-64 being the next highest grade. In fact, a mere 11 total Mint State pieces have been graded at PCGS and NGC combined! Medium S. Blundered Date. It is interesting to note this is also an example of the highly prized blundered date variety. Remnants of a 1 punched far to the left of the date in the field are clearly visible to the naked eye. The next highest grade is 2 MS64 PCGS examples. A prestigious provenance of owners including David Queller (2002) and Eugene Gardner. This piece last sold in June 2014 where it brought $61,688. We predict this coin will fetch a world record price and experience a fierce bidding battle as well it should! When only the finest will do, this is the coin for you! Soon to take it’s rightful place in a fantastic collection. Congratulations in advance to the lucky winning bidder.

    The coin over achieved an auction estimate of $55,000 - $60,000. PCGS Price Guide values the coin at $65,000 and has a pedigree that Legend calls “Prestigious Provenance”. The coin is CAC Approved. In the Legend Auction of the sale of the Boylston Collection of Seated Half Dollars, the coin realized $91,062.50, Auction Record. Legend predicted the coin would Soon to take it’s rightful place in a fantastic collection. That could not be more true!

    Provenance: (Stack's 2/76), lot 710; David Queller Collection / Anniversary Sale (Stack's, 10/2002), lot 557, realized $25,300; The Eugene H. Gardner Collection / Signature Auction (Heritage 6/2014), lot 30502, realized $61,687.50; The Boylston Collection (Legend 4/2021) lot 33, realized $91,062.50 (Auction Record), D.L. Hansen Collection.

    1857-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS66
    PCGS POP 1/0, CAC Approved
    Certification #50030065, PCGS #6292
    PCGS Price Guide $65,000 / Realized $91,062.50
    Ex: Boylston Collection / Eugene H. Gardner / David Queller

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2021 5:38PM

    @Currin said:
    1865-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS65+
    PCGS POP 1/0, CAC Approved
    Certification #39820332, PCGS #6314
    PCGS Price Guide Value: $55, 000 / Purchase Price Unknown
    Ex: Gardner / Perfection

    Great to see Eugene Gardner represented in the collection. Nice coin too!

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    Great to see Eugene Gardner represented in the collection. Nice coin too!

    .
    .

    It would certainly be nice to know just how many Gardner coins are in the Hansen Collection. I am confident it is more than a bucket full.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:

    @Zoins said:

    Great to see Eugene Gardner represented in the collection. Nice coin too!

    It would certainly be nice to know just how many Gardner coins are in the Hansen Collection. I am confident it is more than a bucket full.

    It would be great to see this for coins from all major collections.

  • goldengolden Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1865-S Half Dollar is a Wow coin.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2021 7:12AM

    @Zoins said:

    @Currin said:

    @Zoins said:

    Great to see Eugene Gardner represented in the collection. Nice coin too!

    It would certainly be nice to know just how many Gardner coins are in the Hansen Collection. I am confident it is more than a bucket full.

    It would be great to see this for coins from all major collections.

    I emphatically disagree. As estimable a collector as Mr. Forsythe might be, his slabs rate as a distraction to the handling and viewing of the coin itself. These are also an imposition on any other collector for both storage and display purposes.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:

    @Zoins said:

    @Currin said:

    @Zoins said:

    Great to see Eugene Gardner represented in the collection. Nice coin too!

    It would certainly be nice to know just how many Gardner coins are in the Hansen Collection. I am confident it is more than a bucket full.

    It would be great to see this for coins from all major collections.

    I emphatically disagree. As estimable a collector as Mr. Forsythe might be, his slabs rate as a distraction to the handling and viewing of the coin itself. These are also an imposition on any other collector for both storage and display purposes.

    These are two different items. Coins don’t have to be in the original slabs to appreciate the provenance.

  • gschwernkgschwernk Posts: 348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great post. I am very impressed by the quality and depth of your research.

  • PhilLynottPhilLynott Posts: 890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems like good value for a coin like that 1/2C proof assuming it sold for around priceguide

  • earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think DLH has acquired a couple of outstanding early quarter eagles as upgrades. I think he bought the Simpson 1831 in 66+ PL and perhaps an 1829 (possibly the monster in 67). Any news on this. My apologies if my info is inaccurate.

  • GazesGazes Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RedCopper said:
    Will D L Hansen step up and buy
    the 1933 Saint ?
    No question in my mind it will be
    the highest price paid for any U. S.
    coin in auction.
    My prediction is it will not be won
    by Mr. Hansen

    It seems like Hansen has passed on a number of high priced rarities. What is the most expensive coin he has purchased?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2021 10:57AM

    @RedCopper said:
    Will D L Hansen step up and buy
    the 1933 Saint ?
    No question in my mind it will be
    the highest price paid for any U. S.
    coin in auction.
    My prediction is it will not be won
    by Mr. Hansen

    My prediction is that the 1933 Wetizman Double Eagle will sell for the highest price paid for any U.S. coin period, at auction or private treaty, for the 2nd time in its history :)

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,106 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2021 10:40AM

    I think Hansen will be remembered for the coins he passed on vs the oodles of coins he bought.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2021 10:53AM

    @Boosibri said:
    I think Hansen will be remembered for the coins he passed on vs the oodles of coins he bought.

    I think it depends on what your perspective is and if you've seen the set or not.

    If one sees the set, I think one will be blown away by just how many coins there are and not soon forget it.

    If one hasn't seen the set, it's easy to just focus on a small number of coins, if only because it's easier to discuss a few things than many things.

    I could argue that the same could be said for say many great collections, even Tyrant. For example, it's much easier for me to list the coins Tyrant doesn't have than to list the ones he does have. It's seeing the coins together as a set that makes Tyrant memorable.

  • ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Who would remember coins dude passed on? Almost seems like someone looking for something to be negative about. There is no time ever that I have looked at someones set and said I wonder what coins this guy passed on. That thought would never and I mean never even cross my mind.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Peter Miller EAC Proofs, Part II

    "The ESM Collection is a numismatic treat. Many of the coins in this collection are extremely rare and seldom appear on the market. When they do, they are auction highlights," - Don Willis 7/14/2010.

    Peter Miller’s Award-Winning Proof Copper was seen on display at the 2010 Boston ANA. At this year's American Numismatic Association World's Fair of Money convention in Boston held August 10 - 14, visitors will be treated to a number of museum-quality exhibits of historic rare coins. At booth #105, Professional Coin Grading Service will display an amazing numismatic treasure of early proof copper. Booth visitors can enjoy some of the finest known proof Half Cents, Large Cents, Indian Head Cents and matte proof Lincoln Cents from the award-winning ESM Collection. Assembled by Illinois collector Pete Miller, the ESM Collection ranks among the all-time finest of its kind in several PCGS Set RegistrySM categories, according to BJ Searls, PCGS Set Registry Manager.

    BJ Searls continued her description of the collection by saying: The weighted Grade Point Average for the ESM Collection is an astounding 65.974," Searls explained. "These coins were once owned by such astute collectors as Eliasberg, Naftzger, Norweb, Pittman, Parmelee, Atwater, Garrett, Anderson-Dupont, Byron Reed and others. Pete Miller has graciously arranged with PCGS to display many of the coins in his set in Boston." I have not done a deep dive to compare the Hansen set with the Miller set, but Hansen’s U.S. Half Cents & Cents Complete Set with Major Varieties, Proof (1817-present) has a weighted Grade Point Average of 66.57. PCGS describes the 233 piece proof set as: Proof cents must easily rank near the top of the numismatic spectrum for beauty and rarity. They typically tone in rich, iridescent colors and choice examples are few and far between. Remembering that Proof coins were not generally sold to the public before the late 1850s, nearly all of the Large Cents in this set will be extremely difficult to find. An original 1852 Half Cent Proof is also a major rarity, and locating one of those will be quite a challenge. In the small cent realm, the 1856 Flying Eagle is a key, as is the 1864-L bronze Indian cent and the 1909-VDB Lincoln. Given the extreme rarity of the early Large Cent Proofs, this is no easy set. But as ESM and D. L Hansen have shown us, it can come close to completion. The description mentions the original 1852 Half Cent Proof, although it is not required in the set. Mr. Hansen does not have the coin and I do not think Mr. Miller had one either.

    Yesterday, I showcased the 1843 Half Cent, Original, PR64CAM. We will continue the half cent discussion. According to registry set changes, the Hansen Collection improved the half cents proofs with eleven upgrades. One was the 1843 Half Cent, Original, PR64CAM previously mentioned. There was one sole finest PGGS POP 1/0 specimen, 1849 Small Date, Original PR64RD and one tied for finest, 1835 PR64RD. Eight of the other nine are PCGS Condition Census Top Five. The only coin that is not in the Top Five is the 1831 Original, PR62BN. This is a POP 2/5 coin that is valued at $60,000. The coin was one of two upgraded coins that were not RB or RD designated.

    Today featured coin is the 1832 PR65RB Specimen from the Pittman Collection. The coin replaces the 1832 PR64+BN CAC, Certification #11837312. The previous coin is a POP 1/1 specimen for brown designation (BN). The future of the coin is unknown.

    1832 Half Cent, RB PR65RB, Ex: Pittman / Miller

    With a mintage of 30, PCGS estimates the survival of about 20 -30 coins. This seems a little high due to only six coins have been certified by PCGS in 35 years. There are three certified BN, with the finest a sole PR65. Also, there are three certified RB, with the sole finest PR66RB. There are no certified Red 1832 Half Cent Proofs by PCGS. The sole finest PR66RB is the Tettenhorst - Newman - Missouri Cabinet Specimen that sold in 2014 by Goldbergs for $212,750. The coin is currently in the High Desert Collection. The Pittman –Miller –Hansen Specimen has appeared in auction once in a David Akers Auction in 1997.

    In the 1997 David Akers Auction for the John Jay Pittman I sale, the coin was graded PR65 by PCGS and realized a modest $4,950. For comparison with other PR65 specimens, in a 2020 Heritage sale of the Bob Simpson PR65BN specimen, the coin realized $40,800. The Simpson coin is currently in Dr. Charles Link’s Early American 1832 Proof Set. Also, the Donald G. Partrick PR65BN NGC specimen sold in a recent April Heritage Auction for $26,400. There is not much additional information available on this coin. The next posting we will wrap up the half cents with a look at coins that was purchased that Mr. Hansen did not have an example in his collection. Keep watching.

    Provenance: John Jay Pittman (David Akers 10/1997) Lot #141, realized $4,950; Peter Miller (ESM HOF Registry Set), Private Purchase of Peter Miller EAC Half and Large Cent Proofs (David Lawrence Rare Coins 4/2021), D.L. Hansen Collection.

    1832 Half Cent, PR65RB
    PCGS POP 1/1
    Certification #04809261, PCGS #1196
    PCGS Price Guide $75,000 / Unknown, purchased as set
    Ex: Pittman / Miller

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,106 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ironmanl63 said:
    Who would remember coins dude passed on? Almost seems like someone looking for something to be negative about. There is no time ever that I have looked at someones set and said I wonder what coins this guy passed on. That thought would never and I mean never even cross my mind.

    Tough to be the greatest when you pass on the greatest coins.

  • ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:

    @ironmanl63 said:
    Who would remember coins dude passed on? Almost seems like someone looking for something to be negative about. There is no time ever that I have looked at someones set and said I wonder what coins this guy passed on. That thought would never and I mean never even cross my mind.

    Tough to be the greatest when you pass on the greatest coins.

    O.K.

  • ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    I think Hansen will be remembered for the coins he passed on vs the oodles of coins he bought.

    Hasn't every collector passed on some of the greatest coins? Even the greatest collectors. Maybe you should send dude a list of the coins you think he should buy and in what order. Because if you do not approve of his oodles of purchases well I don't know if he can keep collecting.

    Maybe you could name some of the coins Simpson passed on. How about Pogue. TDN. Any collector for that matter. Because we worry about what coins other collectors pass on. LOL.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2021 7:03PM

    Paul Miller's ESM Collection is amazing. It's well worth remembering that these coins are in the Hansen collection. Can we say this about many other top collections?

  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭

    The Hansen Collection is a tremendous achievement, but naturally, the closer it gets to completeness and perfection, the more any missing coins, or coins Hansen has passed on, will stand out. For example, the United States Philippine coins, which were prominently included in the Eliasberg Collection, are not yet being recognized in the Hansen Collection.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2021 9:57PM

    @RegistryCoin said:
    The Hansen Collection is a tremendous achievement, but naturally, the closer it gets to completeness and perfection, the more any missing coins, or coins Hansen has passed on, will stand out. For example, the United States Philippine coins, which were prominently included in the Eliasberg Collection, are not yet being recognized in the Hansen Collection.

    Everyone has their own take on Hansen and Eliasberg. As Hansen gets closer to completeness, my focus is on what it will take to finish the set the way he has defined it.

    As much as I love USPI coins, that's not what I would personally focus on. It doesn't matter too much to me if Hansen has USPI or not, as those coins were not legal tender in the US proper.

    I do think it would be great to acquire the 1822 Brand-Eliasberg-Pogue half eagle at some point.

    I also love how he has Mormon gold, and at higher grades than Eliasberg.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “As much as I love USPI coins, that's not what I would personally focus on. It doesn't matter too much to me if Hansen has USPI or not, as those coins were not legal tender in the US proper.”

    Zoins- To be clear, you are saying Justin was not accurate when he wrote this passage in the July, 2018 article he published with PCGS? Is that your position Zoins?

    “The Only Dual-Nationality Coins in U.S. History

    Standard U.S. coinage was not useful for the impoverished Philippines because the denominations were too high. Two years later, in 1903, a dual national coinage (U.S. and the Philippines) was released. These coins were the only coins ever minted that were legal tender in the U.S. and another country.

    At first, the coins were minted in Philadelphia and San Francisco ("S" mint mark). Then Denver got into the act on lower-denomination U.S. Philippine coins. Finally, in 1920, the U.S. opened a Mint in Manila, the only U.S. mint ever established outside the U.S. Coins from the Manila Mint carry an "M" mint mark. No collection of U.S. mint marks is complete without this "M" mint mark unique to the U.S. Philippine series.

    These coins were denominated in pesos and centavos, and were made to standards which were either identical to those of United States coins or microscopically smaller (0.002%). Yet, the silver dollar-sized peso, legally convertible to U.S. gold and silver coinage, was valued at only 50 cents USD. The 50 centavo was valued at 25 cents, and so forth.”

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2021 1:23AM

    @wondercoin said:
    “As much as I love USPI coins, that's not what I would personally focus on. It doesn't matter too much to me if Hansen has USPI or not, as those coins were not legal tender in the US proper.”

    Zoins- To be clear, you are saying Justin was not accurate when he wrote this passage in the July, 2018 article he published with PCGS? Is that your position Zoins?

    “The Only Dual-Nationality Coins in U.S. History

    Standard U.S. coinage was not useful for the impoverished Philippines because the denominations were too high. Two years later, in 1903, a dual national coinage (U.S. and the Philippines) was released. These coins were the only coins ever minted that were legal tender in the U.S. and another country.

    At first, the coins were minted in Philadelphia and San Francisco ("S" mint mark). Then Denver got into the act on lower-denomination U.S. Philippine coins. Finally, in 1920, the U.S. opened a Mint in Manila, the only U.S. mint ever established outside the U.S. Coins from the Manila Mint carry an "M" mint mark. No collection of U.S. mint marks is complete without this "M" mint mark unique to the U.S. Philippine series.

    These coins were denominated in pesos and centavos, and were made to standards which were either identical to those of United States coins or microscopically smaller (0.002%). Yet, the silver dollar-sized peso, legally convertible to U.S. gold and silver coinage, was valued at only 50 cents USD. The 50 centavo was valued at 25 cents, and so forth.”

    Wondercoin

    My position is the position of the US Congress. In my quick read of US law, the coins were mentioned as legal tender in the Philippine Islands, not the United States. Did Justin provide a reference to US law for his statement that the coins were legal tender in the United States? Do you believe the coins would be accepted for legal tender commerce in say a retail establishment in San Francisco or Los Angeles? If US law does not say the coins are legal tender in the United States, then I don't think it would be accurate to say they are.

    Here is the beginning of the act I am referencing. The full text is here. It does mention that the coinage is convertible to US currency but being convertible is not the same as legal tender and the conversion is managed by the Philippine government, not the US government.

    At the time, the Philippines were under US Administration but were not formally part of the United States. This is also a reason why the Manila Mint was not created as a US Branch Mint but the Congressional Act authorized the Philippine government to create a Mint. See more in this thread:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1047324/when-was-the-manila-mint-generally-accepted-as-a-u-s-branch-mint

    The act to authorize the Philippine government to create a mint specifically says use of the coins is to be "for use in said islands" with no mention of the United States. More here.

    This is very different from the US creating a Mint in the US which Congress just does. Congress doesn't authorize a state or other entity to create a mint. See the following for Dalles City:

    Justin has surely spent more time looking into this than I have, so if he can point to US law authorizing legal tender status in the United States, I would change my view. If no such reference can be found, it may be worthwhile to amend the article for accuracy.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zoins. The subject coins were legal tender in the Philippines for both the “public debts” and the “private debts”. If, hypothetically, the Philippine government owed a US Mint “x” amount for producing their coins as authorized under the Act and the Philippine government could satisfy that US debt by using the subject coins to pay, wouldn’t that make the coins “legal tender” in the US as well? I haven’t spent any time today heavily researching the question. I just had this thought come to mind. When it’s not 2:00 a.m., I will also ask Justin for his source. It’s probably best that I not wake him up to address this “urgent” question. 😂

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2021 1:39AM

    @wondercoin said:
    Zoins. The subject coins were legal tender in the Philippines for both the “public debts” and the “private debts”. If, hypothetically, the Philippine government owed a US Mint “x” amount for producing their coins as authorized under the Act and the Philippine government could satisfy that US debt by using the subject coins to pay, wouldn’t that make the coins “legal tender” in the US as well? I haven’t spent any time today heavily researching the question. I just had this thought come to mind. When it’s not 2:00 a.m., I will also ask Justin for his source. It’s probably best that I not wake him up to address this “urgent” question. 😂

    Wondercoin

    US law says the USPI coins are "legal tender for all debts, public and private, in the Philippine Islands." I'm looking for similar text saying the coins are legal tender in the United States. It's as simple as that.

    I don't support the hypothetical posed here because that is a government to government transaction and there could be other considerations at play. I do support my example of using the coins to pay for a meal at a restaurant in San Francisco or Los Angeles and having said restaurant deposit it in their local bank, but only for use like territorial coinage, not official legal tender status, which I still think needs to come from explicit (not implicit) authorization of Congress.

    It's a very interesting topic. For an example, I wanted the Manila Mint to be considered a Branch Mint of the United States Mint in Philadelphia but after participating in the thread above and reading US law, I was convinced that it is not. US law explicitly calls the Denver Mint a "branch mint", but no such text is used for the law authorizing the Manila Mint.

    And yes, please don't wake him at 2:00am. He'll think we're both nuts! :D

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “I don't support the hypothetical posed here because that is a government to government transaction. I do support my example of using it to pay for a meal in San Francisco or Los Angeles.”

    Why do you support the private debt only example (meal in SF or LA) but not the public debt example when both public and private debts were mentioned? In fact, if I recall, the Act requires the Philippines to pay the costs associated with the US Mint producing their coins. If these coins are not legal tender to pay that public debt to the US, you are saying bi-National coins with the United States listed on the very coins would not be accepted by the United States as legal tender to pay the public debts. You could be right, but that would make no sense that coins of the United States of America would not be acceptable to pay debts owed to the United States of America.

    Maybe I should wake Justin up at 2:40 a.m.! 😉

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.

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