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Hansen watch.

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  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I look forward to your write up of the Liberty Nickels.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    Additional info,

    I had the second top Proof lib nickel set for a few years. I could have had number one but as you probably know I believe all the coins all have to be CAC. It was difficult to beat Groman who had the top set for years using all CAC coins. Then around June 2018 a CAC 68 DCAM comes up at HA. I had to pay around 80k but it is I think the top coin in the entire proof series so I bought it.

    I became number one that year all CAC. Before that I heard that Groman had the Goldbergs send his set to CAC. I believe eleven did not pass. I consider those one grade lower. I offered Goldberg my set. They said Groman was not interested.

    I later offered it to JB but he also passed. I am not sure why as it was not that much money in their big picture. I was not planning to sell any sets but when DLH bought a few I figured why not. I have moved on to different coins. ( Mostly Proof and certain early ms gold.)

    So time passes and out of the blue Laura calls me and wants to buy the set for Mr. F.
    We agreed within a week and the deal was done. I don't know why the set is not listed on the CAC registry. I think I deleted it by accident instead of retiring it and PCGS could not fix it.

    So when Mr. F wanted to sell all his nickels I assume Legend had to buy the proofs.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2021 6:44PM

    Mr. Perfection, I am sorry for missing that detail and not including you in the postings. I did not research the proof set being it was not purchased by John. In reading the press release, I incorrectly assume both the MS and proof sets were purchased from Greenbrier. I wonder why only Greenbrier was given credit in the press release. Also, in the description of the proof set for sale, Legend writes: This set includes many coins from the Greenbrier Collection (now the #2 set). I am confused. Are you saying Legends have it wrong?

    https://www.legendnumismatics.com/product/5c-1883-1912-proof-1-pcgs-ex-jerry-forsythe/

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • JBatDavidLawrenceJBatDavidLawrence Posts: 504 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @vulcanize said:
    Saw some of his collections (like trade dollars) up for sale. Is he retiring the sets and liquidating?

    This is actually incorrect.
    David Lawrence has been offering duplicates from the Hansen Collection in auctions for the past 2 years. He's not liquidating or retiring any of the number 1 sets, but selling some of the pieces that he has upgraded from.

    John Brush
    President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
    email: John@davidlawrence.com
    2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2021 6:08PM

    @Currin said:
    The complete 33 piece set was updated over the weekend with coins going into the #1 Registry and two sets that are given to family members, Diana and Amy. All three registry sets are complete.

    @JBatDavidLawrence said:

    @vulcanize said:
    Saw some of his collections (like trade dollars) up for sale. Is he retiring the sets and liquidating?


    This is actually incorrect.
    David Lawrence has been offering duplicates from the Hansen Collection in auctions for the past 2 years. He's not liquidating or retiring any of the number 1 sets, but selling some of the pieces that he has upgraded from.

    It's great to see Diana and Amy collecting! Are they collecting all sets or only selected sets?

  • vulcanizevulcanize Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBatDavidLawrence said:

    @vulcanize said:
    Saw some of his collections (like trade dollars) up for sale. Is he retiring the sets and liquidating?


    This is actually incorrect.
    David Lawrence has been offering duplicates from the Hansen Collection in auctions for the past 2 years. He's not liquidating or retiring any of the number 1 sets, but selling some of the pieces that he has upgraded from.

    Thank you.

  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,540 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:
    This week the Hansen watch thread reached 200K.

    Thanks for writing this post and answering the questions. I enjoyed reading it.

  • KindaNewishKindaNewish Posts: 827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBatDavidLawrence said:

    @vulcanize said:
    Saw some of his collections (like trade dollars) up for sale. Is he retiring the sets and liquidating?


    This is actually incorrect.
    David Lawrence has been offering duplicates from the Hansen Collection in auctions for the past 2 years. He's not liquidating or retiring any of the number 1 sets, but selling some of the pieces that he has upgraded from.

    I've been saving my spare change to pick up that rattler proof 68 Barber that DLH has no need for.

    One mans trash (even ay $15K) is another man's treasure.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Gerald Forsythe Collection of PCGS Liberty Head Nickels – Part II

    I loved Liberty Nickels even as a kid 65 years ago. I'd get occasional Liberty Nickels in circulation and the simple, classic beauty of Lady Liberty caught my eye even then. Today, that same beauty of Lady Liberty still captivates me and was one of the key reasons I built my collection. I like the coins. - JustHavingFun 2012


    Great quote from JHF. When we sold the Mint State & Proof Liberty Nickel collections through Stacks nearly a decade ago now, those collections were the finest, hands down, ever assembled. The proof collection, at the time, had nearly every high grade DCAM coin PCGS ever graded as JHF was ok buying doubles. If memory serves me right, we bought a bunch of very cool coins from Sunnywood to include in the sets.

    My favorite Mint State Liberty nickel though is the 1888 monster toned specimen I won for JHF in Santa Clara at the Heritage auction in 2002 for the World Record price (at the time) of $21,850. That is the price it fetched after Laura finally dropped her padddle. When we sold the set at Stacks in June, 2012, I set the opening bid ($23,500) on this monster toned 1888 (Lot 2317) at right around (net) what JHF paid for the coin in 2002 and I wouldn’t be surprised if Laura grabbed it the second time around (especially with the CAC sticker although I always knew the toning was real). Anyone know where the coin is today?

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Gerald Forsythe Collection of PCGS Liberty Head Nickels – Part III

    With the posting today, we will wrap up the nickels and the discussion of Gerald Forsythe Collection of PCGS Liberty Head Nickels. I hope we are not reaching the end of an era for this very distinguished Registry Collector. He has been somewhat a mystery. He is renowned as businessman and auto racing magnate, but his passion for numismatics has not been explored than I am aware. As far as I know, he never visited this forum and I don’t remember much activity with numismatics shows and events. He may have been more active in the hobby than I am aware. He was highly promoted by his agent and I have no real knowledge if he had any personal interest in the PCGS Registry. Whither he did or didn’t, his collections will be remembered for a very long time.

    The Liberty Head Nickels are not the only Gerald Forsythe Collections that we will see sold in the coming months. Legend Auctions is offering this outstanding set: We are offering the Gerald Forsythe Walking Liberty 50C MS Collection. This collection, which ranks as the #1 all-time finest set on the PCGS Registry, is truly a once in a lifetime collection. An incredible 51 of the 65 coins in the set are Top Pop, including 8 that are the single finest known. The collection is well deserving of its place in the PCGS Hall of Fame, and is a set that could never be surpassed. Because of this, and in consultation with our consignor, we have decided to offer this collection as a single lot, rather than see it broken up. The collection is too incredible to offer as pieces, and a lucky bidder will be able to immediately vault themselves to the top of the registry when they take this amazing collection home, and will likely never lose that top ranking. No set of this caliber has ever been offered as a single lot in auction, and we honored to be able to make history by offering it in our Regency Auction 44. In looking at the D.L. Hansen set, the set would upgrade 32 of the 65 Hansen coins. This upgrade is slightly less than 50%, but would certainly improve the set, and would place the Hansen set in first placed. I would estimate the set would sell in the excess of $2,500,000 which I find interesting that it is being offered as a set. I do not know the interest that Mr. Hansen may have.

    The significance of this purchase of the Gerald Forsythe Collection of PCGS Liberty Head Nickels

    I mentioned a few days ago that I will have a brief discussion on significance of the purchase. I wrote: The 11 Forsythe Liberty Nickels were purchased to upgrade Hansen Collection. As I stated in a posting, it can be hard to realize how significant 11 coins can be. After all, the Hall of Fame basic set requires 3741, so can 11 coins make any difference? In GPA, I would say not much. I know I am repeating myself from a previous posting, but as an historic accomplishment, improving these series to all-time greatest is very significant for the bigger picture. As with purchase of the Linda Gail Franklins, the purchase of the 11 Forsythe Nickels creates a dynamic that cannot be easily recognized. We must breakdown the mega set to get a true picture. I showed you this for the first time a few days ago I am taking a closer look by denomination (or groups) and then even more granular by series (Registry sets). I have broken the denomination (or groups) into 14 sections. One of them is the Basic Composition Nickels Sets that you will see. Then, I broke this down to the five main series that make up the Nickel Five Cents Collection. What you see developing is a phenomenal collection.

    This is a close look at the Nickel Five Cents Basic Collection. As result, I broke out 299 coins of the 3741-piece Hall of Fame set to from the Nickel Collection. Then let’s take a deeper look at this 299-piece collection. I broke the Nickels into five basic series that represent the Nickels from 1866 to present. I hope this gives you a better feel of just what has materialize with the 11 coin Gerald Forsythe purchase. For Nickels, the Hansen Collection current has the all-time finest sets in two of the five series. You may recall the Half Dollars series had more All-Time Finest sets, but maybe not as good overall. As I have stated before, I don’t find it to be realistic that Mr. Hansen can build or buy every top set for all series. It may be realistic that at some point in future if you breakdown the 3741-piece Hall of Fame set, then could see all the series sets on the PCGS All-Time Top Five Leaderboard. This has been achieved for the Nickels! Just take a look at the five sets, two are All-Time Finest, one is #2, and two sets are #3. All the Nickel sets are solid in the PCGS All-Time Top Five. This makes a phenomenal collection of Nickels.

    1886 Liberty Head Nickel, MS67, CAC Approved, Ex: Gerald Forsythe / Greenbrier River Collection

    This may be the most valuable mint state Liberty Nickel in the Hansen Collection. The coin is valued by PCGS Price Guide at $70,000. There are no six figure coins in the series. I cannot find where the new Hansen coin has ever appeared in auction, and I do believe it is one of the core coins from the Greenbrier Collection. With the certification number change that I described before, and the lack of good images from the Greenbrier Collection, it is difficult to be 100% certain.

    Expert Ron Guth: Most collectors consider the 1886 Nickel to be a key issue in the Liberty Head series. Price guides reflect this opinion and place it behind the 1885 and the 1912-S as the third most valuable date. However, in terms of certified examples, this is one of the more common dates in the series, illustrating the power of mintage figures, which have been used traditionally, as an important factor in concluding which coins are rare and which coins are not. As far as Mint State examples go, the 1886 is slightly more "common" than the 1885, but no MS67 1886 Nickels have been certified by PCGS, compared to 2 for the 1885. Strike quality is a factor on this date, as many examples show weakness on the radial line on some (or many) of the stars. Also, keep an eye on that ear of corn on the lower left reverse, as this is often weak, too. If there were an update to Mr. Guth comment, the 1886 Liberty Nickel currently has three MS67 in PCGS Population report. Two can easily be identified, the Forsythe/Greenbrier Specimen and the Carnton Specimen that has appeared twice in recent Legend Rare Coin Auctions . The third specimen cannot be confirmed for certainly.

    There is not a large group of PCGS MS67 specimens. The PCGS Population Report indicates only three, with none finer. As stated, the Carnton Specimen has appeared in Auction twice. The auction record of $64,625 was achieved in Legend’s September 2018 Regency 28 Auction. The coin was not CAC Approved.

    The Liberty Nickels has been a fun series to study. As I covered a few days ago, the series has a rich history of great registry sets. Up to recently, there were exciting battles year after year for that top award. The most popular Nickel is the Buffalo Series. In my childhood, it was not too uncommon to find a Buffalo in change. Back in the day, the Liberty Head was called the V-Nickel. I did not find many, but to find one was just as exciting. I guess I am saying, to collect nickels can be fun.

    The Mr. Hansen set, formally Greenbrier/Forsythe, has been at the top of the leaderboard since 2013. As discuss a couple days ago, there are still seven PCGS POP 1/0 Specimens out there somewhere. This leaves the possibility that someone is assembling a high graded set offline. We have no way to know for sure if The D.L. Hansen Collection of PCGS Liberty Head Nickels will remain on the top of the Leaderboard for many years to come. Only time we tell for sure.

    1886 Liberty Head Nickel, MS67
    PCGS POP 3/0, CAC Approved
    Certification #37912895, PCGS #3847
    PCGS Price Guide $70,000 / Purchased as part of a 33-piece set
    Ex: Gerald Forsythe / Greenbrier River Collection

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    My favorite Mint State Liberty nickel though is the 1888 monster toned specimen I won for JHF in Santa Clara at the Heritage auction in 2002 for the World Record price (at the time) of $21,850. That is the price it fetched after Laura finally dropped her padddle. When we sold the set at Stacks in June, 2012, I set the opening bid ($23,500) on this monster toned 1888 (Lot 2317) at right around (net) what JHF paid for the coin in 2002 and I wouldn’t be surprised if Laura grabbed it the second time around (especially with the CAC sticker although I always knew the toning was real). Anyone know where the coin is today?

    WonderCoin posted the above.
    I believe I own this coin. It is amazing and yes CAC. I purchased it from Laura seven years ago! A monster.
    I would sell it to DLH if he would pay what I did! ☺

    For the record from a few days ago. I sold the #1 Proof Liberty Nickel Set, all CAC to Laura who then sold it to
    Forsythe. He in turn did not care about the CAC added non CAC coins to it enabling it to get even more points.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,132 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin See below.

    @Perfection said:
    My favorite Mint State Liberty nickel though is the 1888 monster toned specimen I won for JHF in Santa Clara at the Heritage auction in 2002 for the World Record price (at the time) of $21,850. That is the price it fetched after Laura finally dropped her padddle. When we sold the set at Stacks in June, 2012, I set the opening bid ($23,500) on this monster toned 1888 (Lot 2317) at right around (net) what JHF paid for the coin in 2002 and I wouldn’t be surprised if Laura grabbed it the second time around (especially with the CAC sticker although I always knew the toning was real). Anyone know where the coin is today?

    WonderCoin posted the above.
    I believe I own this coin. It is amazing and yes CAC. I purchased it from Laura seven years ago! A monster.
    I would sell it to DLH if he would pay what I did! ☺

    For the record from a few days ago. I sold the #1 Proof Liberty Nickel Set, all CAC to Laura who then sold it to
    Forsythe. He in turn did not care about the CAC added non CAC coins to it enabling it to get even more points.

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Floridafacelifter said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @GoBust said:
    FFL that's one truly fantastic 1895 King of Kings Morgan!

    Sorry, have to disagree. Just another common proof date.

    >
    Alas it is a conditional rarity, so here’s a true rarity for you- less than 50 made, less than 10 survive- the rarest Philadelphia proof Morgan

    I'd be surprised if more than three of these exist, and I doubt that many more than that were struck. I also wonder if it might actually be a pattern. Anyway, it's a great coin but way too obscure for most people.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber said:

    @Perfection said:
    ...
    The 1901 S quarter might be far rarer in vg, xf and au grades than all the coins above but not nearly as rare in
    67. Registry scoring in antiquated and needs to reflect the actual stats.

    1. Regarding VG - the "Pop Above" is what is relevant; not the Pop in the category. (Note: Pop Above for sets limited to AU-58 should be defined to only include AU-58+ and not MS).
    2. In principle, I agree that the points should be related to true rarity, but as others have stated, official Pops are not a perfect measure of this.
    3. Points should also reflect demand. So I think basing the points on Auction Prices Realized is probably best.

    Extending that logic, sets would be ranked by market value and only market value. Completion wouldn't matter. Consistency wouldn't matter. A collection of one single trophy coin could outrank a classy, extensive collection. There's a logic to that, but it would take something out of the game.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021 6:35PM

    @Floridafacelifter said:

    @MrEureka said:

    @Floridafacelifter said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @GoBust said:
    FFL that's one truly fantastic 1895 King of Kings Morgan!

    Sorry, have to disagree. Just another common proof date.

    >
    Alas it is a conditional rarity, so here’s a true rarity for you- less than 50 made, less than 10 survive- the rarest Philadelphia proof Morgan

    I'd be surprised if more than three of these exist, and I doubt that many more than that were struck. I also wonder if it might actually be a pattern. Anyway, it's a great coin but way too obscure for most people.

    It is very obscure for sure- I’ve never seen another one in person or at auction. However, the NGC Registry includes it in the Proof Morgan Dollar Set along with the 1921 Zerbe and Chapman proofs so I had to find one to complete the set 100%, and my set has been #1 for the last ten years or so

    I remember seeing one in an Apostrophe sale back in the 80's and was very impressed. Assuming yours is the same piece, I've never seen another.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @Floridafacelifter said:

    @MrEureka said:

    @Floridafacelifter said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @GoBust said:
    FFL that's one truly fantastic 1895 King of Kings Morgan!

    Sorry, have to disagree. Just another common proof date.

    >
    Alas it is a conditional rarity, so here’s a true rarity for you- less than 50 made, less than 10 survive- the rarest Philadelphia proof Morgan

    I'd be surprised if more than three of these exist, and I doubt that many more than that were struck. I also wonder if it might actually be a pattern. Anyway, it's a great coin but way too obscure for most people.

    It is very obscure for sure- I’ve never seen another one in person or at auction. However, the NGC Registry includes it in the Proof Morgan Dollar Set along with the 1921 Zerbe and Chapman proofs so I had to find one to complete the set 100%, and my set has been #1 for the last ten years or so

    I remember seeing one in an Apostrophe sale back in the 80's and was very impressed. Assuming yours is the same piece, I've never seen another.

    It could be the same coin- the only previous owner I know for sure was Barry Chappell

  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I also apologize if I’m posting non-Hansen coins on the Hansen Watch thread and shouldn’t be- I’m new here and still learning the forum etiquette!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021 7:35PM

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    I also apologize if I’m posting non-Hansen coins on the Hansen Watch thread and shouldn’t be- I’m new here and still learning the forum etiquette!

    Do you want to sell to @DLHansen ? ;)

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    I also apologize if I’m posting non-Hansen coins on the Hansen Watch thread and shouldn’t be- I’m new here and still learning the forum etiquette!

    .
    .
    Mr. Duke,
    I am OK with you posting anytime on the Hansen watch thread. It is very educational, which is one of the key components on the thread. There is nothing wrong with your etiquette.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:

    @Floridafacelifter said:
    I also apologize if I’m posting non-Hansen coins on the Hansen Watch thread and shouldn’t be- I’m new here and still learning the forum etiquette!

    Mr. Duke,
    I am OK with you posting anytime on the Hansen watch thread. It is very educational, which is one of the key components on the thread. There is nothing wrong with your etiquette.

    Agree 100%.

  • FloridafacelifterFloridafacelifter Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you!

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No one knows who won the 1822, but it was not Hansen. Maybe an announcement will come out soon.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I personally tip my hat to Mr. Hansen. He obviously set a max bid on the coin, the coin exceeded it and he let it go. To me, that is a bigger sign of greatness for the future of his collection and tells me that he learned a great deal over the past few years since stepping into the coin biz. And, IMHO, this half eagle coin is entirely irrelevant to whether Mr. Hansen’s overall collection is viewed as “great” or not in the future.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • sign of greatness is to have great coins and nothing else.
    In my opinion he missed his goal by not buying this coin. It was a must for him.
    Anyways it will come up for sale again in the next 10 years, I doubt its in tight hands.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “I believe the 1822 5 was used by someone to put money away, to be protected from inflation and made from stocks.
    If the value of your stock portfolio just increased from 200 million to 1 Billion in the last year, its easy to make such a purchase.
    I personally dont think this way. I dont want to spend 10 million on anything I think it should be worth 5 - 6 million, and will be worth again this in future probably.
    I was planing to bid on the 1822 5 too, I just dont see how its a 8.4 Million USD coin, meaning every other deal I saw I prefer over this one, including the 1804 ten, the Gem Brasher Doubloon and the PCGS 67 20 USD Paquet.
    I rather would have the Gem Brasher Doubloon at 10 Million than this one at 8.4, actually the Brasher looks cheap now, like all other big coins that sold recently.”

    “sign of greatness is to have great coins and nothing else.
    In my opinion he missed his goal by not buying this coin. It was a must for him.
    Anyways it will come up for sale again in the next 10 years, I doubt its in tight hands.”


    Inconsistent positions by you when read together?

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • @wondercoin said:
    “I believe the 1822 5 was used by someone to put money away, to be protected from inflation and made from stocks.
    If the value of your stock portfolio just increased from 200 million to 1 Billion in the last year, its easy to make such a purchase.
    I personally dont think this way. I dont want to spend 10 million on anything I think it should be worth 5 - 6 million, and will be worth again this in future probably.
    I was planing to bid on the 1822 5 too, I just dont see how its a 8.4 Million USD coin, meaning every other deal I saw I prefer over this one, including the 1804 ten, the Gem Brasher Doubloon and the PCGS 67 20 USD Paquet.
    I rather would have the Gem Brasher Doubloon at 10 Million than this one at 8.4, actually the Brasher looks cheap now, like all other big coins that sold recently.”

    “sign of greatness is to have great coins and nothing else.
    In my opinion he missed his goal by not buying this coin. It was a must for him.
    Anyways it will come up for sale again in the next 10 years, I doubt its in tight hands.”


    Inconsistent positions by you when read together?

    Wondercoin

    Not inconsistent for me, because I dont need the 1822 5 to achieve a higher collecting goal.

  • gschwernkgschwernk Posts: 348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:
    Liberty Double Eagle Upgrade

    I am guessing about 12 months have past since my last posting on The D. L. Hansen Collection of Liberty Double Eagles. As I have said before, the set can be described as incredible. The collection is PCGS All-Time Finest Set for Liberty Head $20 Gold Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1850-1907). Our new friend and community member @gschwernk has assembled the 87% complete Schweck Collection set which is in the #2 current finest spot. The set range is VF25 to MS66. He made a comment here a few days ago: I recently returned to collecting after a 15-year absence. I've been working on this set for about 2 years. I finished most of the easy dates. Now its mostly a question of finding the coins I need and generating the funds to pay for them. This is an extremely difficult set even for a everyman set. I admire Mr. Schweck for completing 87%, and I hope he can push to 90%.

    Thanks for shout out. I purchased a 1859-O at the last Heritage sale and the 1858-O last night. I should get to 90% soon but it will be difficult going further. At some point in the future I will start a separate thread as suggested by other forum members to chronical this quest. Actually my name is Schwenk. There was a typo when I signed up for this forum.

  • PhilLynottPhilLynott Posts: 890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That 1881 $20 is one of the nicest 62s I can remember what a gorgeous coin.

  • cccoinscccoins Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for shout out. I purchased a 1859-O at the last Heritage sale and the 1858-O last night. I should get to 90% soon but it will be difficult going further. At some point in the future I will start a separate thread as suggested by other forum members to chronical this quest. Actually my name is Schwenk. There was a typo when I signed up for this forum.

    That’s a great form of encryption for you. :-)

    Look forward to hearing about your set in detail.

  • BloodManBloodMan Posts: 1,833 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin
    Thanks for the update on DL Hansen’s 1881 Liberty Double Eagle Upgrade. This is an incredibly difficult date to find in uncirculated condition and the new coin has nice eye appeal.

    You mentioned in your post…”I know Eliasberg had a mixture, and probably all collectors before him. The registry does not have the Smithsonian National Numismatic Collection as complete. Harry W. Bass has a complete set, but I have not confirmed it to be pure circulating strikes. It would be an interesting question to know.”

    Harry Bass did indeed have a complete set of circulation strike Liberty double eagles. These were sold in several sales in 1999-2000. He had many incredible proof double eagles and patterns as well, but also had circulation strikes of all dates and major varieties, eg, 1854 Large Date, 1853/2, 1873 open and close 3. He had multiple examples of many dates in the series. While he had an 1861-S Paquet, he did not have one of the two Philly Paquet examples, which some consider a pattern, while others believe it was intended for circulation.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Washington Silvers Update #1

    New Leader in the All-Time Finest Registry Set

    This has been an interesting series to watch the past couple years. Actually, the set registry has had a rich history for the past decade or more. There has been a nice little battle to watch between Dell Loy Hansen and the owner of the Washington Rainbow collection which I will refer to as Mr. WR. The battle between Mr. Hansen and Mr. WR really got serious with the Hansen purchase of several Washington Quarters from the Red’s Silver Collection. I discussed in a post on April 1, 2020 titled: “Updates from Red’s Silver Quarters”.

    I wrote: The Hansen Collection upgraded 13 WQ coins. The basic set had nine upgrades and the Major Varieties set replaced four specimens. The Hansen’s Silver sets for both Basic and Major Varieties were already #1 All-Time. The Hansen Collection achieved this status September 2019. These upgrades make the best even better. Twelve of the upgrades are from the R. L. Redmond’s “Red’s Silver Sets”. He retired the #3 All-Time Basic Set, the #2 All-Time Classic Set, and the #5 All-Time Major Varieties Set. David Lawrence Rare Coins featured these Washington quarter sets in a Sunday Auction on March 22, 2020. The auction featured the Red's Silver Washington Quarter Collection. 123 beautiful, registry-quality Washington quarters are available for bidding, many of them with No Reserve…. Red’s Silver Washington Quarter Collection is currently ranked as the #2 PCGS Set Registry for Silver Washington Quarters with Major Varieties. This collection was painstakingly pieced together by a longtime collector who focused on quality and eye appeal with each and every coin. In fact, 95 of the individual coins have garnered the coveted CAC seal of Approval for quality. The highlights of the collection include numerous absolute Finest Graded examples from PCGS, and several key dates that are virtually impossible to improve upon in any way, shape or form. Quite a few of the coins in this collection also bear the pedigrees of royalty within the Washington Quarter collecting categories. Mr. Hansen was the successful bidder on at least 12 coins for his primary sets. He may have purchased more if he added any to his duplicate sets.

    As stated, the Hansen Collection of Washington Quarters was all-time top set for several periods since September 2019, but never could maintain it. Mr. WR won the all-time best in the registry award for 2019 and 2020. As you know, this award is given for the best set at a certain period of time, June 30th, if I recall correctly. Well, Mr. Hansen regained that lead on 3/24 at 1:32 am. The was achieved with a purchase of a MS68 coin from Great Collections Auction. This occurred one day before the previous #1 registry set was offered in auction by StacksBowers.

    The StacksBowers Washington Rainbow sale took place on the 3/25, and The D.L. Hansen Team purchased a nice lot containing five coins that improve his top set. I will discuss the Mr. WR set in a little more detail in a later posting. First let us look at the new coin from the Great Collection sale.

    1935 Washington Quarter Dollar MS68

    If the D.L. Hansen set can hold on to the lead in this series, this coin and purchase will be remembered as the piece that established first place. With the retirement of the Washington Rainbow set, there is a good possibility, at least in the short term that the Hansen set will remain the finest all-time. The existing coin, 1935 MS67+, Cert #32673401, POP 34/5 was bumped down to the #2 set. There are currently five 1935 MS68 in the PCGS POP Report with none graded finer. Two have been offered in auction the past week, one by Great Collections, and the other the Washington Rainbow coin in the StacksBowers Auction. The Washington Rainbow specimen realized $7,200 on 2/25/2021.

    PCGS Expert David Hall describes the 1935 Quarter as: The 1935 is one of the higher mintage early date Washington quarters and it is readily available in all grades. For the pre-1940 Washingtons, only the 1939 is easier to obtain in Gem MS65 condition. In Gem condition, the 1935 is about equal in rarity to the 1936. Strike is not a problem and luster can often be spectacular. As you can see, this is a rather common coin. In fact, in the PCGS Rarity and Survival Estimates, the number given for GEM MS65 or better is 15,000. Currently PCGS values the coin at $20,000, but I would except the figure to come down in the next publication. In fact, the fifth specimen was just added to the pop report a couple days ago.

    There is a large group of PCGS MS67 specimens. The PCGS Population Report indicates 191 entries, with 34 as being MS67+. This sets the stage for several more MS68 upgrades in the future. Up to the past few days, no 1935 MS68 Washington Quarter has ever appeared in auction. Then two appeared, with the Great Collection coin being the first. I have not been able to trace Hansen coin to earlier auctions with lower grades. The Hansen coin was hammered at $7,750 and with buyer’s fees, the coin realized $8,718.75. The coin realized about a 20% premium when compared to the WR coin sold by StacksBowers.

    In the past few weeks, we have seen three Hansen basic registry sets move to the top of the leaderboard. First with the purchase of the Linda Gail Franklins, then purchase on the Gerald Forsythe Collection of PCGS Liberty Head Nickels, and the next day or two, we will see the coins purchased from the Washington Rainbow Collection. We have seen some interesting moves made in this exciting collection just in the past couple days. It is certainly fun to watch especially being the cost to watch is free.

    Provenance: Online Auction (GreatCollections 3/2021), Item ID: 896237, realized $8,718.75; D.L. Hansen Collection.

    1935 Washington Quarter Dollar MS68
    PCGS POP 5/0
    Certification #41426230, PCGS #5797
    PCGS Price Guide $20,000 / Realized $8,718.75

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BloodMan said:
    @Currin
    Thanks for mentioning my comments about the AWA collection in your post…

    I remember writing that message more than 10 years ago after viewing and studying every coin in the AWA collection.

    .
    For very obvious reason, I do not have the opportunity to share the Liberty Double Eagle set very often. When posting the latest Hansen Upgrade, I want to share some information on the beauty and rarity captured by the AWA collector in his 20 plus year pursuit. To my regret, I was not able to find much written by the experts like Doug Winters, Ron Guth, and their peers. I then stumbled upon your posting which was prefect for what I was looking for. I could tell it was written by someone with a deep interest and knowledge in the Liberty Double Eagles. Thanks for sharing that ten years ago and which allowed me to share it present day. .
    .

    One coin that stood out to me, which I mentioned, was the 1867 $20 MS61. The coin seemed to be somewhat out of place due it's relatively low grade. I suspect an MS63 could have been found over the years the AWA collection was assembled. However, while this 1867 had a lower assigned grade, it had incredible eye appeal with prooflike fields, minimal marks and devices with a subtle cameo appearance. I can understand why it was kept in the collection even with the modest MS61 grade.

    .

    Fast forward to after Hansen acquires the AWA collection and then upgrades the 1867 MS61 to the legendary Newman MS66 coin, which is 3 points higher than the next closest PCGS graded 1867 $20. In 2018, the MS61 1867 $20 becomes available along with other DL Hanson duplicates

    .
    The MS61 is certainly am overachiever for the graded. In looking at your timeline, I know Mr. Hansen had his collection reevaluated by PCGS in October 2019. You may be aware that in the past few years, PCGS now evaluated gold coins for the PL designation. You purchased the coin prior to Hansen efforts in 2019. I am not sure if you considered having the coin evaluated for the PL designation or not. I think it could be the perfect coin, because I don’t think anyone can ever find another 1867 MS61 even close to the coin you own.

    Lastly, is your set in the Registry? It would be a great set to share. Thanks again and enjoy your collection of Liberty Double Eagles.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • BloodManBloodMan Posts: 1,833 ✭✭✭✭✭

    About Liberty double eagles, it has been said, a complete set is one of the greatest challenges in all of numismatics. There are so many tough/expensive dates, but it goes beyond that. Finding coins in this series with minimal marks, original surfaces and nice eye appeal adds another element making the challenge exponentially more difficult. For the common dates, like a majority of the type 3s, I prefer examples with prooflike surfaces for an even greater challenge. Examples, with PL surfaces represent less than 1% of the graded populations at NGC and PCGS. I am happy that PCGS is now designating all deserving coins as prooflike, though at this time I don't plan to attempt crossing over the PL coins in my collection, though I may in the future.

    @Currin Thanks for all of your efforts providing updates in this thread. It is always interesting to read each of your posts.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Washington Silvers Update #3

    With the posting today, we will wrap up the Washington Silver Quarter Dollars discussion and Washington Rainbows Collection of PCGS Quarter Dollars. The Rainbow collector has been around the Washington Quarter registry for almost two decades. This collector’s first set was named Manofcoins PCGS Collection that was retired in 2006. The second PCGS set was retired last week, and the coins were sold in the Stacks Bowers sale. As I have said before, I hope we are not reaching the end of an era for this very distinguished Washington Quarter Dollar Registry Collector. He has been active member of the forum and has posted on this thread. Maybe he can share some thoughts on the sale, and future goals and plans.

    This purchase brings most of the top PCGS graded coins into the D.L. Hansen set. There are a few more that could improve the set but not many. For the record, the registry set shows seventeen coins that can be replaced. Of those seventeen, Hansen have three top pop coins in his second set, 1937-S MS67+ Pop 7/0, 1949 MS68 POP 3/0, and 1955 MS67 POP 5/0. It appears some cleanup work is needed. Also, the registry set indicates there is a sole 1964 better than the MS67+ in the Hansen set. I do not believe the coin exist and there is an error in the registry. There is not a coin for 1964 MS68 in the PCGS Population Report. This means only twelve of the 83 coins on the Hansen Collection can be upgraded, with eleven having PCGS Pop 1/0 specimens. This is the breakdown for remaining eleven non-Hansen sole finest:

    There are five PCGS POP 1/0 sole finest in the Escalate Registry (1932 MS67+, 1936-S MS68, 1945-S MS68, 1947-D MS68, and 1948 MS68+)

    There are two PCGS POP 1/0 sole finest in other registry sets (1943-S MS68 in Don Murphy Set and 1956 MS68 in High Desert set)

    There are four PCGS POP 1/0 sole finest specimens that is not in the registry (1939-D MS68, 1941 MS68+, 1953-D MS68, and 1963-D MS68). Are these four coins in stock inventory, unpublished sets, being hoarded? I am not sure.

    This leaves only three other coins in the D.L. Hansen Collection which is eligible for upgrade that does not required the purchase of the sole finest specimen.

    1941 25C MS67+, CAC, Certification #25205204, PCGS POP 32/2, two PCGS certified finer.
    1. MS68, Certification unknow, POP 1/1 current location unknown (may not exist).
    2. Sole finest MS68+ previously mentioned location unknown.

    1948 25C MS67+, CAC, Certification #33229116, POP 33/3, three PCGS certified finer.
    1. MS68, Certification #21072746, POP 2/1 currently resides in the Wondercoin Collection.
    2. MS68, Certification #Unknown, POP 2/1 current location unknown.
    3. Sole finest MS68+ previously mentioned in the Escalate (Registry Set)

    1951-S 25C MS67+, CAC, Certification #36066688, POP 45/3, three PCGS certified finer.
    1. MS68, Certification #39827534, POP 3/0 currently resides in the Escalate Collection.
    2. MS68, Certification #18368639, POP 3/0 currently resides in the Wondercoin Collection.
    3. MS68, Certification ##Unknown, POP 3/0 current location unknown.

    There are 248,928 registered Washington Silver Quarters listed in the PCGS Population Report. Some of them may be invalided due to resubmits, but still there is probably at least 200,000 or more. Out of all the coins, if I exclude coins in registry sets, there are only seven specimens unaccounted for that can upgrade Hansen’s set.

    The wild card set in the series is the Hall of Fame Wondercoin set. Without replacing a coin, the set has made its way back to the second spot in the current registry. What is unique about this set, it is one of the few survivor sets. At the time of the HOF award in 2012, this set had 20 sole finest POP 1/0 specimens and countless number of tied for finest certified. PCGS described the set as: While a complete date and mintmark set of Washington Quarters in 67.18 is tough enough, when you add in the five Double Die Obverses and the two 1950 over-mintmarks, the task becomes immeasurably tougher. Replete with “finest knowns” Mitch’s effort is unlikely to be repeated anytime soon. Congratulations on a third Gold Star award and PCGS Set Registry Hall of Fame induction! This set has been packed away practically untouched for almost a decade. I talked with Mitch Spivack about his set, and he said he has no current plans. I wonder (no pun) what this set would grade with the current PCGS grading standards. It will be interesting to watch and see if Mitch decides to do anything with this set. Could it become an instant #1 set again?

    The significance of this purchase of eight specimens from Washington Rainbows PCGS Registry Set

    I mentioned a few days ago that I will have a brief discussion on significance of the purchase. I wrote: The D.L Hansen Collection has the top set of PCGS Washington Silver Quarter Dollars. If Mr. Hansen purchased eight coins from the Washington Rainbows Collection to improve and update his top registry set, then mission accomplished. As I have been stating in posting from the past few weeks, in this mega collection, it can be hard to realize how significant eight coins can be. After all, the Hall of Fame basic set requires 3741, so can eight coins make any difference? In GPA, I would say not much. I know I am repeating myself from a previous posting, but as an historic accomplishment, improving these series to all-time greatest is very significant for the bigger picture. As with purchase of the Linda Gail Franklins, the Forsythe Nickels, and now the Washington Rainbows Quarters, we are seeing one of the best 20th Century Collection of coins being built before our eyes. For a couple postings, I showed you a closer look by denomination (or groups) and then even more granular by series (Registry sets). Let us look at how the Quarter Dollars are shaping up overall.

    This is a close look at the Quarter Dollar Basic Collection. As result, I broke out 667 coins of the 3741-piece Hall of Fame set to form the Quarter Dollar Collection. Then let us take a deeper look at this 667-piece collection. I broke the Quarters into eight basic series that represent the Quarter Dollars from 1796 to present. I hope this gives you a better feel of just what has materialized with the 8-coin Washington Rainbows purchase. For Quarters, the Hansen Collection current has the all-time finest sets in two of the series. Six of the Quarter Dollar series are in the top five all-time. Surprisingly to me, the Standing Liberty is the lowest ranking set. The all-time best registry set is “Hall of Fame - Just having fun!” set that retired almost a decade ago. A set by The Ohio Collector is the current #1 Set and has held the lead since the HOF JHF retired. The two sets have been dominating for almost 20 years. Dr. Charles Link and Brett Pogue have the top sets for the two early series. For Quarter Dollars, The D.L. Hansen Collection now have two top sets, two in second place in the registry, and two in third place. Will we be seeing anymore retirement from the top sets. Only time will tell for sure. As for now, let us look at one of the recent purchases from the Washington Rainbows Collection.

    1964-D Washington Quarter Dollar, MS68, Ex: Washington Rainbows Collection

    This is the last Washington Quarter Dollar in the series. Also, it was the most Mr. Hansen paid for a purchase in the Washington Rainbows sale. This is not the most expensive coin the Hansen Washington Collection, that honor goes to the 1932-D and 1932-S. I would say the new 1964-D Washington Quarter Dollar, MS68 is certainly in the top five of this 83-coin set. PCGS Expert David Hall commented: The mintage of 704 million coins for the 1964-D is by far the largest of the 1932-1964 silver Washington quarter series. Only the mintage of the 1964 is even remotely close. In fact, except for the 1964, the mintage of the 1964-D is more than five times that of its nearest rival (the 1963-D at 135 million). Still, the 1964-D is less common in Gem condition than several of the S Mints of the 1940s and 1950s. Though a lot of coins were made in 1964, they apparently weren't made and/or handled very carefully. It is interesting that one of the largest production of coins, is now one of the rarest in high grades.

    There is not a lack of GEMs to meet the collector’s needs. According to PCGS rarity and survival estimates, the number of MS65 and over is 11,000. There is over 1100 MS65 graded by PCGS alone. Relative to other dates, there is not as large of a group of PCGS MS67 specimens. The PCGS Population Report indicates 94 MS67s, with only 20 graded MS67+. Naturally, the new Hansen Specimen is the sole MS68 by PCGS. The MS68 appeared in auction once before.

    In Legend’s Regency 32 Auction in May 2019, the coin appeared for the first time. The legend auctioneer described the coins as: Washington quarter Registry Set collectors have a UNIQUE opportunity here! Presented is the SOLE FINEST PCGS GRADED 1964-D quarter, and it is a marvelously toned SUPERB GEM! Everything about this coin screams out to the viewer, its exceptional visual allure captivates the eye. Classic mint set hues blend on both PRISTINE sides, its variegated colors amplified by a bold, radiating mint luster. Sunset orange, rich violet, emerald, olive green, and rose patina come to life while rotated in a light. Even with a strong glass, this coin looks essentially PERFECT with no marks or lines detected anywhere. The coin is the sole finest at least up to now. At the time of the Legend Auction, PCGS has not placed a valuation on the coin. PCGS has not listed a value for the date in MS68, but for the type, Collector's Universe lists a generic value of $5,250 in MS68. As the sole finest example for the date, we know that anyone working on the #1 PCGS Registry Set of Washington Quarters needs this coin! With the recent results of Pop Top and finest known coins off the charts, we know this coin will shatter records. The record holder for the date was for an MS67 sold in March 2010 for $6,900. Bound to see fierce bidding. The coin did shattered the auction record as predicted. The coin realized $27,025.

    We can assume Washington Rainbows was the guy “working on the #1 PCGS Registry Set of Washington Quarters”. If he purchased the coin in the Legend’s sale, then he was able to make a nice profit when sold last week in the Stacks Bowers sale. The coin was headlined as: Single Finest PCGS-Certified 1964-D Quarter, Exquisitely Toned PCGS/CAC MS-68. SBG described the coin as: Vivid multicolored toning has a slightly mottled distribution over both sides of this frosty and essentially pristine example. Shades of orange-copper, salmon-pink, sea-green and antique gold are all in evidence -- very attractive. At 704,135,528 coins struck, the 1964-D has the highest mintage in the Washington quarter series up to that point in time. Superb Gems are surprisingly scarce, however, and in PCGS MS-68 the present example is the finest certified and represents awe-inspiring quality for this otherwise readily obtainable issue. Phenomenal! The CAC Approved coin realized $38,400 which is considerable more than the PCGS Price Guide value of $30,000.

    Provenance: Regency 32 Auction 32 (Legend 5/2019) lot 412, realized $27,025; The Washington Rainbows Collection (Stacks Bowers 3/2021), lot 2356, realized $38,400; D.L, Hansen Collection.

    1964-D Washington Quarter Dollar, MS68
    PCGS POP 1/0, CAC Approved
    Certification #37717355, PCGS #5877
    PCGS Price Guide $30,000 / Realized $38,400
    Ex: Washington Rainbows Collection

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,540 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin - Will Mr. Hansen keep the 1846-O Half Eagle in the Old Green Holder? Or will he try for an upgrade?

    I think I would keep it in the OGH.

  • CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MidLifeCrisis said:
    @Currin - Will Mr. Hansen keep the 1846-O Half Eagle in the Old Green Holder? Or will he try for an upgrade?

    I think I would keep it in the OGH.

    I think he will at some point. The past process was a branding, reevaluation and TrueView exercise by PCGS. The last event occurred in Fall 2019 and approx. 6000 coins were processed. This was a one week process. I don’t know when the next one will be planned. Being the coin is accepted into the PCGS sets, I don’t see a short term desire. As you may have heard John Brush say, they don’t like to send coins to PCGS for a number of logistical reasons. The only time that I have seen recently has been when the coin numbers need to be changed. An example of this occurred about a year ago when updating the Half Eagle Major varieties set, some of the coins were in basic holders. I hope this answers the question.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,540 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:

    I hope this answers the question.

    It does. Thanks!

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