@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
I understand the thinking and that may be correct. For the record, I don't collect anything that is considered modern. I did read an interesting article in a subscription based newsletter with a well respected numismatist who compared modern coins to the way modern art was viewed initially. People thought paying X dollars for an Andy Warhol was idiotic. Turned out to be a good investment. Another example is for years people said it was a waste to pay big money for the top graded Franklin Halves---coins that were modern and not so rare. Those top graded coins seem to continue to go up in value. I don't know what will happen, but my point is that there may be more potential in these coins then people are giving credit to.
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
It just happened to me on a lower level, I bought a top Lincoln Cent for 6.000 USD 3 years ago that is now worth only 2.000 because a few more got graded.
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
This.
It can also happen with $10 and $20 gold turning up from Europe.
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
This.
It can also happen with $10 and $20 gold turning up from Europe.
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
This.
It can also happen with $10 and $20 gold turning up from Europe.
@privaterarecoincollector said:
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
To what degree is the growth of the populations for Mercury Dimes a factor of the maturity of the TPGs versus the age of the coin? Is the risk that there are rolls of gem roosevelts out there that haven't been considering for grading yet, or that there are top tier Roosevelts raw in collections still?
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
For those of you who say this is a bad purchase because it's a modern coin hear this:
I know for a fact if one of you get the urge to make another one I have a serious buyer right now. Also if you can't make this coin in a 7FB they'll happily take a 4FB, 5FB, or 6FB for this date. This coin just doesn't exist in FB's and IMHO the said coin in 7FB that Hansen bought isn't a true FB dime. Too many hits on both lower bands and they are flat.
If you were to make this coin, you will be paid handsomely for it.
Good Luck!
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
For those of you who say this is a bad purchase because it's a modern coin hear this:
I know for a fact if one of you get the urge to make another one I have a serious buyer right now. Also if you can't make this coin in a 7FB they'll happily take a 4FB, 5FB, or 6FB for this date. This coin just doesn't exist in FB's and IMHO the said coin in 7FB that Hansen bought isn't a true FB dime. Too many hits on both lower bands and they are flat.
If you were to make this coin, you will be paid handsomely for it.
Good Luck!
Interesting and no doubt true. Still, there must be millions of uncirculated 74 dimes out there, so it’s hard for me to consider any of them all that important in the scheme of things.
Doesn’t mean I’m not going to start looking closer at my 74 Mint Sets.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
BTW, I like the value of the proof 75 dime at something north of 250K, and I’m (seriously) a big fan of Franklin Mint coins, so don’t think I’m a moderns hater. I just think that that the last micron of quality or strike is not that important, however old a coin may be.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
» show previous quotes
The coin brought $456,000 against a PCGS price guide price of $349,600. The latter represents the amount it realized when it sold previously, in 2011.
Yes, I know this. The price guide in this case is worthless. The price guide follows the coin. If it sold for a million dollars, the PG would have to be adjusted.
I still feel this was a steal at either price.”
Stooge (Paul): As usual, your instincts and assessments, especially as they relate to Roosevelt dimes, are “dead on”. I should have a few things to say about the 1975 No S Dime (“Hollywood” as the Heritage auctioneer put it) later this week and I will share my comments here and over on the Registry Forum thread dedicated to Roosevelt Dimes.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@privaterarecoincollector said:
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
To what degree is the growth of the populations for Mercury Dimes a factor of the maturity of the TPGs versus the age of the coin? Is the risk that there are rolls of gem roosevelts out there that haven't been considering for grading yet, or that there are top tier Roosevelts raw in collections still?
yes plus upgrades.
But I assume that the majority of all roosevelts is not graded incl. proof sets and thats different for high grade 18th century coins.
Finest known at PCGS means nothing if only all 20% of all high grade coins are graded.
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
Pop reports keep on changing, even for older coins. There are upgrades and downgrades that make sure things don't stagnate.
Coins where grades matter less are when there are just a handful.
“But I assume that the majority of all roosevelts is not graded incl. proof sets and thats different for high grade 18th century coins.”
But, the vast majority of Roosie collectors who have a budget of, say, $25-$100 a coin really don’t have the luxury to pay attention to that fact.
Astute Roosie collectors (as young as teenagers) have paid $5-$10 a coin plus a grading fee and ended up grading, and selling an “end product” for $5,000 -$10,000 (or keeping the coin for their collection). These teenagers and sharp collectors on a budget (maybe 99% of them) can not consider “high grade 18th century coins” - right?
The opportunities for a seasoned Roosie collector with $50 -$100 in his pocket at a coin show are nearly endless. For $1 or $2 plus a $16 grading fee one can potentially make a $10,000 coin. I know someone who recently turned $9 plus a grading fee into nearly $40,000.00 (different modern series than Roosies, but same idea). How much does a collector need to bring to a typical coin show to score a good deal on a “high grade 18th century coin”?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
There's no need for us to argue over a coin's value here that we didn't even buy....
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@Boosibri said:
Registry nonsense chasing modern coins not even around when Eliasberg was collecting while passing on irreplaceable and long-standing rarities
If I was him, I would be fueled by this type of comment. He's showing some characteristics that make him stand out from some of these other well known collectors of the past.
1974 was 45 years ago. How long does material have to be "out there" before the concrete starts to set and people feel like they know if a top pop has staying power? (This is a sincere question)
I would say at least another 50 years to make sure the POP report doesnt get completely changed over time anymore, which it will for everything after 1900 still.
e.g. all the highest graded Mercury Dimes will change for sure over time, now there is one 1938-D in 68, in 10 years there will be 5 or 10 or 20 probably + 68+ and 69s.
Thats not going to happen for the MS 67 1794 Half Cent.
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
There's no need for us to argue over a coin's value here that we didn't even buy....
Does this mean that you're getting ready to tell us the rest of the story? (:>)
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
We discussed a few weeks ago a St. Gaudens Mint State update to the Collection. I talked about how difficult the St. Gaudens Double Eagle series is in high grade mint state. I feel proof specimens may be harder. This is how PCGS describes the proof set: Want to get famous? Put together a set of these amazing, gorgeous, incredible, remarkable, indescribable, sensational coins! The ultimate in coin design, issued in Matte and Roman Finish Proof. The highest mintage coin in the set is only 167 pieces (!) and at present only one set can be assembled in PR65 or better condition. Don't worry, though, as a PR64 set or a mixture of PR64 and PR65/better coins would also be nothing short of spectacular.
I am somewhere dumbfounded this is not a more popular set. From viewing the registry, except Hansen, there is not anyone attempting to create a set in the registry. That is not to say there are not sets outside the registry. Mr. Hansen is presently at 62.5% completed, and the only current collector working on this series. According to the registry, the finest set is in the Smithsonian National Numismatic Collection. The national set is followed by five other retired completed sets: Eliasberg, Bloomfield, Garrett, Newcomer, and Trompeter. Eliasberg has the most outstanding private own set with the weighed GPA of 65.83.
This new coin is the first in the series. 1908 $20 Motto, Matte (Proof) is by no means a common coin. According to CoinFacts, the mintage was 101 with a survival estimate of 73. David Akers comments: All proofs of 1908 have the motto on the reverse. They are the most common of the Saint-Gaudens proofs and I estimate that 30-35 specimens exist. With one exception, all 1908 proofs are of the matte or sandblast variety whose color may vary from light yellow green to dark olive. The one exception mentioned is the unique satin finish specimen (similar to the 1909 and 1910 proofs) from the Boston Museum of Fine Arts that appeared in Stack's 1976 ANA sale.
1908 Double Eagle Motto, Matte Proof PR65
The coin was purchased in auction at Heritage’s 2019 ANA World's Fair of Money in Chicago. The coin was from The Joan Zieg Steinbrenner Collection. The collection was featured in CoinWeek, August 13th, 2019. She was the wife of NY Yankee’s owner George Steinbrenner. If you have time to read, this is the link:
The PCGS POP 8/8 coin is not a Condition Census Top 5, but Heritage describes as “Seldom Seen Finer”. The coin was describes as: The curvature of the dies for Saint-Gaudens new double eagle design made it impossible for the Mint to produce the brilliant finish proofs of earlier years, so an artistic sandblast finish was employed for the annual proof offerings, beginning in 1908. Sandblasted surfaces exhibit numerous minute facets that reflect the light at different angles, giving a coin an unusual sparkle. Unfortunately, contemporary collectors much preferred the old brilliant proofs.
Mr. Hansen purchased the coin for $75,000. PCGS Price Guide listed the coin at $100,000. The last PR65 to sell in auction was by Stacks Bowers for $76,375, August 2014. So, it appears the price paid was in line with expectation.
Provenance: The Joan Zieg Steinbrenner Collection
In comparison, The Eliasberg registry indicates that he had a better coin, estimate graded PR66. The specimen was purchased by Louis Eliasberg when he acquired the John Clapp collection in 1942. Originally, it was purchased by John Clapp from J.C. Mitchelson in 1909. At the Bowers & Ruddy Oct '82 Eliasberg sale, the coin was purchased by Don Kagin for $28,600.
Buy unopened 1975 proof sets. Hard to believe the mint had a run of only two coins before they discovered the error.
Burn the note and wait to hear from a lucky B&M dealer.
Folks have been examining 1975 Proof sets for decades. I'll bet every set still in dealers' stocks have been examined at least a dozen times each! Those coins are still out there, held by non collectors and SAH buyers who have no idea the no-S exists. Eventually, those sets will be sold on to the market and will make headlines with each new find.
@topstuf said:
How many of you (us) loupe every coin in our collection when we look at them?
Naked eye, 12 inch distance and who cares?
Some things are too much.
Er...one? I'd like to tell you how I really look at my coins but that would confirm I'm crazy!
@wondercoin said:
“But I assume that the majority of all roosevelts is not graded incl. proof sets and thats different for high grade 18th century coins.”
But, the vast majority of Roosie collectors who have a budget of, say, $25-$100 a coin really don’t have the luxury to pay attention to that fact.
Astute Roosie collectors (as young as teenagers) have paid $5-$10 a coin plus a grading fee and ended up grading, and selling an “end product” for $5,000 -$10,000 (or keeping the coin for their collection). These teenagers and sharp collectors on a budget (maybe 99% of them) can not consider “high grade 18th century coins” - right?
The opportunities for a seasoned Roosie collector with $50 -$100 in his pocket at a coin show are nearly endless. For $1 or $2 plus a $16 grading fee one can potentially make a $10,000 coin. I know someone who recently turned $9 plus a grading fee into nearly $40,000.00 (different modern series than Roosies, but same idea). How much does a collector need to bring to a typical coin show to score a good deal on a “high grade 18th century coin”?
Wondercoin
Love this scenario if I'm on the discovering/slabbing end of it. I wouldn't be a buyer of same but I'd sure love to make something along these lines!
Currin. I will enter a coin I have been diligently looking for. The 1819 $5 Gold BD-2. One of the basic set coins. I will enter it tomorrow. Look forward to your Thoughts. DellLoy Hansen
@DLHansen said:
Currin. I will enter a coin I have been diligently looking for. The 1819 $5 Gold BD-2. One of the basic set coins. I will enter it tomorrow. Look forward to your Thoughts. DellLoy Hansen
Sounds like a great pickup. The BD-2 is definitely the rarer of the 1819s. If it is the coin that I am thinking of... WOW!
1855-D $5 Liberty. Medium D. PCGS graded MS-62 Pop 1; finest graded at PCGS. Only 4 graded in total
This is a description of this coin from an Ira & Larry Goldberg Coins Auction in May of 2006. From the best of my knowledge, the description is still true more than 13 years later. This coin upgrades “The Collection” basic set. Previously, The Collection had an 1855-D Large D (normal coin PCGS #8263) graded AU53 in the set. This coin is more than an upgrade; it is an addition to the Major Varieties Set. I have mention on several occasions, the progress that is being made. The PCGS Registry Set for Pre-1965 Major Varieties requires 439 coins in addition and to the basic coins. By my most recent assessment, it appears to me that Hansen has purchase almost 90% of the required Major Varieties US Coins. In comparison, Eliasberg collected only approx. 65% of the Major Varieties by current PCGS standards. I know the coins for Major Varieties have evolved over the years, but in my assessment, I believe Eliasberg was missing some of the key coins. I plan to share more in the future on the Major Varieties.
I don’t know for sure if anyone has completed the Liberty Head $5 Gold with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes (1839-1908) Set. PCGS describes the set as: The basic set of this series is a monumental accomplishment and this variety set is that and more. If you’re going to tackle this long and challenging collection, though, why not go all the way? There are coins from seven different Mints as a starter, plus the ultra-ultra-rare 1854-S $5 and much more. Then add Tall Dates and Small Dates and over-mintmarks and other varieties and you’ll have a lifetime of enjoyment from a single series! Harry Bass is given registry credit for completing 99.09% of the 220 required coins. He was missing the 1853-D Medium D. I am not sure the coin was required in his day. If it was, I am curious why he did not obtain a specimen. The other missing coin is the 1854-S. We all know 1854-S coin was a gouging hole in Bass’ half eagle set.
1855-D $5 Medium D, MS62, PGGS POP 1/0
The description given for this coin by Ira & Larry Goldberg is: Lovely rich orange-gold toning on both sides. Wonderful eye appeal. 22,432 mintage. Pop 1; finest graded at PCGS. Only 4 graded in total. Always frosty for the issue, as seen here, the bright orange gold surface is nearly gem quality with only a few tiny bagmarks. Mathematically exact standards would seen in the sharp centers, but this date is noteworthy for its "average" to soft detail in the key high points, such as the hair below Liberty's ear; on the reverse, the soft detail softens even further as though either the dies were worn or their spacing did not impart the requisite force to insure that the planchet would fill the recesses completely. All the same this is a very attractive of a scarce year, one that will go down in the record books. The coin realized $16,100 in 2006.
Prior to the Ira & Larry Goldberg in 2006, I believe the coin appeared in the Heritage 2003, (FUN) Signature Sale in Orlando, FL. The coin carried a different certification and appeared in a different PCGS holder. On the holder, the coin was pedigreed to “Ashland City”. The coin was the same PCGS grade, and presented as Finest Known 1855-D Medium D Half Eagle, MS62. This is the description from 16 years ago: The 1855-D is a very scarce and underrated issue in the series of Dahlonega Fives. Only 95-105 pieces are believed known in all grades and just a couple or three Uncirculated pieces are believed extant today. However, we must interject here that what is known and reported about this issue has been for the Large D variant. Nothing is mentioned in Akers, Breen, or Winter about a second die variety and so we conclude that the Condition Census information listed in Winter (63, 61, 58 multiples) is for the Large D variety. Likewise, we assume the Medium D is considerably rarer than its Large D counterpart. This is the finest example known and certified by either of the major services, and it may stand as the finest known for quite some time until this variety's absolute and condition rarity is fully known. The centers are weakly defined, as always on this issue, but the surfaces are thickly frosted and covered with rich reddish patina. There are no major marks or impairments of any kind on either side of this exceptional coin. In 2003, the coin realized $14,950.
I have not been able to find out much information on the coin after these two decade old sales. The coin remains the finest graded for the variety. I believe Mr. Hansen purchased the coin privately, but cannot be certain of the details. PCGS coin value places a price tag of $30,000 on the coin. This is another nice half eagle addition to The Hansen Collection.
Provenance: Ashland City Collection
In an Eliasberg comparison, the PCGS registry indicates that he did not own a 1855-D Medium D specimen. His example was the 1855-D Large D, estimated grade AU58. The coin was purchased at the Bowers & Ruddy Oct '82 Eliasberg sale by Jack Hancock and Bob Harwell for $2,090. Lot #474.
1855-D $5 Medium D, MS62 (Gold Shield) PCGS Coin #98263 / PCGS Serial #08384688 / POP 1/0
Kudos to @DLHansen on an outstanding purchase. There is some discussion among Dahlonega specialists whether the ‘55 Large D or Medium D is the rarer variety; regardless, any 1855-D $5 above AU 55 and with nice eye appeal is a very rare find. As a Dahlonega enthusiast, all I can say is, WOW!
Very nice coin. The understanding of the medium and large D varieties is all out of whack and even has been adjusted a few times by DW. A simple review of coinfacts before it was adulterated would have shown nearly all images examples as medium D. The large D is the much rarer of the two. The major grading companies have been inconsistent on designating these varieties.
He was missing the 1853-D Medium D. I am not sure the coin was required in his day. If it was, I am curious why he did not obtain a specimen.
I just happened to notice that the 1853-D Medium D $5 is no longer in the registry set for the Dahlonega Complete Set with Major Varieties. It was on the list a week ago?? If that’s the case, it looks like he needs only the 1840-D (Small D) $5 to complete that registry set.
The Finest Collectible 1819 Normal Reverse Half Eagle One of Perhaps Just Four Known From These Dies 1819 Capped Head Left Half Eagle. Bass Dannreuther-2. Rarity-7. Normal Reverse. MS61 (PCGS)
5th coin in Last Box of 20…… Present Box Value = $2,182,800
With only fifteen coins to go in the Eliasberg Quest, at this point, each additional coin is getting harder and more difficult to find. Mr. Hansen informed us that the 1819 half eagle is one that “I have been diligently looking for”. As with many of us that have assembled a set of coins know first hand, that sometimes we cannot get the coin that we want to complete the set. For the 1819 half eagle, this is not the case for Mr. Hansen. The new addition is from the Pogue Collection, and any coin from that collection is a “Masterpiece”.
If you are familiar with the early half eagle series, and this date, you know there are two major varieties, the normal date and the overdate. This is a case where the normal date is more difficult to find than the overdate. The new Hansen purchase is the only collectable specimen that is in mint condition, graded at PCGS MS61. By some accounts, this specimen is “roughly tied” with the impounded Bass coin for finest known. David Akers provides this information: This is another of the many famous rarities of this type. However, contrary to the comments made by some cataloguers, it is less rare as a date than the 1815 with possibly 15-18 specimens known in all grades. Unlike the 1815, however, it is not the case with the 1819 that most known specimens are uncirculated as a number of the existing examples are in the VF to EF range. There are two major varieties of this date, one with "normal dies" and the other with the 5D over 50 reverse of 1818. The two varieties are of comparable rarity and neither would bring a premium over the other.
The 1819 half eagle has a trifecta of varieties. The first two are the well-known major varieties, and the third a more recent discovered, third die state variety. All three varieties are now recognized by John Dannreuther and he confirmed the new variety on March 19, 2014. Let’s take a quick look at them.
Bass-Dannreuther 1. 1819 Wide Date, 5D over 50
By most accounts, the number of known specimens is between 17-19. There are two, maybe three coins that could be graded gems. First being the MS65 PCGS graded Garrett-Pogue Specimen. By some accounts, there is an ungraded specimen in Harry W. Bass Jr. Foundation Collection that may be a MS65. There could be a third, the Virgil Brand specimen sold by Bowers and Merena in 1983. Hansen does not have a specimen of the 1819 BD-1 half eagle. If the Pogue specimen was to come available, it would be interesting to see if Mr. Hansen has any desire to purchase. The Pogue specimen sold in 2016 for record breaking $423,000.
Bass-Dannreuther 2. 1819 Close Date, Normal Reverse
Some accounts give seven as number of known specimens. That may be a stretch. In the Pogue sale, the listing indicated “perhaps” only four known. Whether the number is four or seven, the coin is pretty rare. The Pogue-Hansen Specimen may be the finest. The only specimen that may come close to this coin is the King Farouk / Harry W. Bass, Jr. Foundation Specimen. The coin is normally considered and referenced as an AU58, but you know how grades go.
Bass-Dannreuther 3. 1819 Wide Date, Normal Reverse (1 Known)
This is an impaired unique coin. The coin sold in Heritage’s 2014 ANA US Coins Signature Auction. The coin has AU details, but listed by NGC as plugged and whizzed. This is the description given for this unique coin: Recently, in March 2014, a new third variety was discovered by Mark Borckardt, or perhaps it is the old third variety noted in the Adams notebook. This new variety combines the Wide Date obverse of BD-1, with an entirely new and previously unreported reverse die. NGC has described the coin as plugged and whizzed, although the damage is not obvious. The reverse die makes no other appearances in the entire half eagle series, and is known only on this unique 1819 half eagle that is now called BD-3. John Dannreuther examined images and confirmed the new variety on March 19, 2014. This example has light greenish-yellow surfaces with hints of orange toning about the peripheries. The surfaces are lightly polished, but lack the distinctive appearance of whizzing. Minor marks are noted on each side, including disturbances at the upper obverse and lower reverse that NCS describes with the "plugged" label. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I have no idea if Mr. Hansen has any desired for this coin. The overall appearance of the coin is very good. As we know, Mr. Hansen does not reject coins because they may be impaired. Also, he needs the Bass impaired 1870-S Gold Three Dollar to complete the quest.
1819 $5 BD-2 MS61, Green-Pogue-Hansen Specimen, Pop 1/0
I have used up a lot of space and have not talked much about the new coin. Really the coin speaks for itself. PCGS POP 1/0, Ex: Pogue, one of maybe 4 known, a quest countdown coin, what could be better? Although I feel we could end here, I really must share this magnificent description from the Pogue Sale: One of the classic rarities of the series, the finest collectible example of the 1819 Normal Reverse half eagle may seem to be a bit of a letdown, graded only MS-61. It is, however, the only Mint State coin certified by PCGS and roughly tied with the impounded Bass coin for finest known honors. The surfaces are attractive medium yellow gold with traces of coppery highlights around design elements, particularly prominent on the reverse. The reverse is more lustrous than the obverse, offering a surfeit of cartwheel luster. The obverse is likewise lustrous, but more subtly so, with cartwheel encircling the inside of the rims. Fully struck on both sides, this coin shows no areas of weakness among the designs. The obverse shows a significant population of hairlines, but no bad marks. We note a tiny nick on the raised rim above star 5, a thin curved scratch above star 12, and a short horizontal scratch high on Liberty’s throat. The reverse is lightly hairlined but more lively, with the appearance of a higher grade. A tiny nick is unobtrusive above the top of the wing at right, and a short scratch below the tip of the beak is scarcely noticeable. The dies are perfect, unclashed and uncracked.
The coin sold for $141,000 in 2016 in The D. Brent Pogue Collection, Part III Sale. PCGS values the coin at $140,000. We do not know what Mr. Hansen offered in the private transaction. In any case, this is a great addition to the “Great Collection”, that is getting better at each update.
Provenance: Peter Mougey Collection; Peter Mougey Estate, 1908; Thomas Elder’s sale of the Peter Mougey Collection, September 1910, lot 1070; William H. Woodin Collection; Waldo C. Newcomer Collection, by sale, early 1920s; Col. Edward Howland Robinson Green Collection, by sale, via B. Max Mehl, 1931; Stack’s, by sale, 1943; Henry P. Graves Collection; Gwendolen Graves Fullerton, by descent, 1953; Stack’s sale of the Davis-Graves Collection, April 1954, lot 1449; Stack’s sale of the Dr. Clifford Smith Collection, May 1955, lot 1682; Stack’s 1976 American Numismatic Association sale, August 1976, lot 2936; Paramount International Coin Corporation’s Rare Coin List No. 15, April-May 1977, page 80; Superior Galleries’ “Connoisseur’s Collection” sale of January 1989, lot 354, via David Akers; Stacks Bowers, Feb 9, 2016 of The D. Brent Pogue Collection, Part III, unknown buyer; D.L. Hansen Collection by private transaction, Sept., 2019.
In comparing to Eliasberg’s specimen, according to information provided by PCGS Registry, he did not acquired the 1819 “Normal Die” half eagle specimen. His example for this coin was an estimated grade AU58 Wide Date, 5D over 50 specimen. Ex. Smith Collection; Chapman (1906); Clapp Collection (1942). Sold by Bowers & Ruddy Oct '82 price realized $37,400. Lot #374.
1819 Normal Reverse Half Eagle PCGS Coin #519918 / PCGS Serial #32189880 / POP 1/1 Ex: Mougey - Newcomer - Green - Graves – Pogue
There are 15 remaining coins in the Eliasberg Quest. The 11 coins that are not listed in “U.S. Coins Complete Basic, Circulation Strikes Set” are Bold below. The remaining 4 coins plus the 1875 $10 in Business Strike is needed to complete the registry set. Hansen has a proof specimen 1875 $10 which meets the Eliasberg set definition (either business strike or proof counts), therefor is not shown on this list.
Top 10 1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in Tom Bender PCGS Registry Collection) 1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection) 1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA) 1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in Simpson Collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection) 1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 16, Unique Legally Owned Coin - anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, Two known in private: 1-Pogue AU58+; 2- XF45 sold July 2018)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples could be privately purchased) 1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private owned) 1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase)
Next 5 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8) 1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24) 1839 Gobrecht Original Dollar (Survival 60-75)
1798 Quarter Eagle (Survival 80)
Note: DLH was a partner in the purchase of the 1854-S XF45 Half Eagle being that he's a partner with DLRC, but after purchasing the coin, DLRC reported the specimen was sold to an undisclosed client.
Just ran across this Eliasberg coin. It's one of the first 10 Morgan Dollars struck at the San Francisco Mint and a presentation piece. It could be something for Dell Loy to be on the look out for:
This is pedigreed to J. Gus. Burt, Emanuel Wertman, and Eliasberg. In the 1910 Wertman sale, it sold for just $1.10!
It's an interesting coin, but Eliasberg owned a lot of different coins, including colonial, foreign and ancient coins. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12308934/#Comment_12308934
I'm not sure the "complete US coins" quest should get redirected to obtaining everything that Eliasberg once owned....
It's true Eliasberg had a large variety of holdings as he even had a gold Confederate cent, Humbert slug, and a set of gold Lincoln medals! However, this particular coin is a Morgan Dollar presentation strike, so it's much closer to the current US coin focus, perhaps even more so than pattern coins.
@Zoins said:
Just ran across this Eliasberg coin. It's one of the first 10 Morgan Dollars struck at the San Francisco Mint and a presentation piece. It could be something for Dell Loy to be on the look out for:
This is pedigreed to J. Gus. Burt, Emanuel Wertman, and Eliasberg. In the 1910 Wertman sale, it sold for just $1.10!
I had no idea that existed. WOW.
Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
Comments
The problem is he is building his set now---he can't wait 50 years to confirm population. Part of his challenge is that he is building a set that covers everything and not able to just focus on a mature area like 18th cent. half cents.
I think the point is in paying $400k for a top pop moderish dime where the premium will likely evaporate over a relatively short period of time vs paying up for truly recognizable classic rarities
Latin American Collection
I understand the thinking and that may be correct. For the record, I don't collect anything that is considered modern. I did read an interesting article in a subscription based newsletter with a well respected numismatist who compared modern coins to the way modern art was viewed initially. People thought paying X dollars for an Andy Warhol was idiotic. Turned out to be a good investment. Another example is for years people said it was a waste to pay big money for the top graded Franklin Halves---coins that were modern and not so rare. Those top graded coins seem to continue to go up in value. I don't know what will happen, but my point is that there may be more potential in these coins then people are giving credit to.
This.
It just happened to me on a lower level, I bought a top Lincoln Cent for 6.000 USD 3 years ago that is now worth only 2.000 because a few more got graded.
It can also happen with $10 and $20 gold turning up from Europe.
exactly. But rarely only with 18th century coins.
Agree
To what degree is the growth of the populations for Mercury Dimes a factor of the maturity of the TPGs versus the age of the coin? Is the risk that there are rolls of gem roosevelts out there that haven't been considering for grading yet, or that there are top tier Roosevelts raw in collections still?
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
For those of you who say this is a bad purchase because it's a modern coin hear this:
I know for a fact if one of you get the urge to make another one I have a serious buyer right now. Also if you can't make this coin in a 7FB they'll happily take a 4FB, 5FB, or 6FB for this date. This coin just doesn't exist in FB's and IMHO the said coin in 7FB that Hansen bought isn't a true FB dime. Too many hits on both lower bands and they are flat.
If you were to make this coin, you will be paid handsomely for it.
Good Luck!
Later, Paul.
Interesting and no doubt true. Still, there must be millions of uncirculated 74 dimes out there, so it’s hard for me to consider any of them all that important in the scheme of things.
Doesn’t mean I’m not going to start looking closer at my 74 Mint Sets.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
You will cower before my world domination. Unless you pay my ransom of one 1974 dime, I will destroy you. Bwahahahahaha
What? Oh...
Make that one billlllionnnn dollarsssss.
BTW, I like the value of the proof 75 dime at something north of 250K, and I’m (seriously) a big fan of Franklin Mint coins, so don’t think I’m a moderns hater. I just think that that the last micron of quality or strike is not that important, however old a coin may be.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I didn't think I could like him more but this just did it.
Not only does he not care about CAC, but he also likes moderns.
You should have a beer-mug-toast emoji
My Saint Set
Always fun spending someone else's money.
“@MFeld said:
» show previous quotes
The coin brought $456,000 against a PCGS price guide price of $349,600. The latter represents the amount it realized when it sold previously, in 2011.
Yes, I know this. The price guide in this case is worthless. The price guide follows the coin. If it sold for a million dollars, the PG would have to be adjusted.
I still feel this was a steal at either price.”
Stooge (Paul): As usual, your instincts and assessments, especially as they relate to Roosevelt dimes, are “dead on”. I should have a few things to say about the 1975 No S Dime (“Hollywood” as the Heritage auctioneer put it) later this week and I will share my comments here and over on the Registry Forum thread dedicated to Roosevelt Dimes.
Wondercoin
yes plus upgrades.
But I assume that the majority of all roosevelts is not graded incl. proof sets and thats different for high grade 18th century coins.
Finest known at PCGS means nothing if only all 20% of all high grade coins are graded.
Pop reports keep on changing, even for older coins. There are upgrades and downgrades that make sure things don't stagnate.
Coins where grades matter less are when there are just a handful.
“But I assume that the majority of all roosevelts is not graded incl. proof sets and thats different for high grade 18th century coins.”
But, the vast majority of Roosie collectors who have a budget of, say, $25-$100 a coin really don’t have the luxury to pay attention to that fact.
Astute Roosie collectors (as young as teenagers) have paid $5-$10 a coin plus a grading fee and ended up grading, and selling an “end product” for $5,000 -$10,000 (or keeping the coin for their collection). These teenagers and sharp collectors on a budget (maybe 99% of them) can not consider “high grade 18th century coins” - right?
The opportunities for a seasoned Roosie collector with $50 -$100 in his pocket at a coin show are nearly endless. For $1 or $2 plus a $16 grading fee one can potentially make a $10,000 coin. I know someone who recently turned $9 plus a grading fee into nearly $40,000.00 (different modern series than Roosies, but same idea). How much does a collector need to bring to a typical coin show to score a good deal on a “high grade 18th century coin”?
Wondercoin
How many of you (us) loupe every coin in our collection when we look at them?
Naked eye, 12 inch distance and who cares?
Some things are too much.
There's no need for us to argue over a coin's value here that we didn't even buy....
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Hah! Well Said! ☺
Does this mean that you're getting ready to tell us the rest of the story? (:>)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
St. Gaudens Matte Proof
We discussed a few weeks ago a St. Gaudens Mint State update to the Collection. I talked about how difficult the St. Gaudens Double Eagle series is in high grade mint state. I feel proof specimens may be harder. This is how PCGS describes the proof set: Want to get famous? Put together a set of these amazing, gorgeous, incredible, remarkable, indescribable, sensational coins! The ultimate in coin design, issued in Matte and Roman Finish Proof. The highest mintage coin in the set is only 167 pieces (!) and at present only one set can be assembled in PR65 or better condition. Don't worry, though, as a PR64 set or a mixture of PR64 and PR65/better coins would also be nothing short of spectacular.
I am somewhere dumbfounded this is not a more popular set. From viewing the registry, except Hansen, there is not anyone attempting to create a set in the registry. That is not to say there are not sets outside the registry. Mr. Hansen is presently at 62.5% completed, and the only current collector working on this series. According to the registry, the finest set is in the Smithsonian National Numismatic Collection. The national set is followed by five other retired completed sets: Eliasberg, Bloomfield, Garrett, Newcomer, and Trompeter. Eliasberg has the most outstanding private own set with the weighed GPA of 65.83.
This new coin is the first in the series. 1908 $20 Motto, Matte (Proof) is by no means a common coin. According to CoinFacts, the mintage was 101 with a survival estimate of 73. David Akers comments: All proofs of 1908 have the motto on the reverse. They are the most common of the Saint-Gaudens proofs and I estimate that 30-35 specimens exist. With one exception, all 1908 proofs are of the matte or sandblast variety whose color may vary from light yellow green to dark olive. The one exception mentioned is the unique satin finish specimen (similar to the 1909 and 1910 proofs) from the Boston Museum of Fine Arts that appeared in Stack's 1976 ANA sale.
1908 Double Eagle Motto, Matte Proof PR65
The coin was purchased in auction at Heritage’s 2019 ANA World's Fair of Money in Chicago. The coin was from The Joan Zieg Steinbrenner Collection. The collection was featured in CoinWeek, August 13th, 2019. She was the wife of NY Yankee’s owner George Steinbrenner. If you have time to read, this is the link:
https://coinweek.com/auctions-news/heritage-platinum-night-joan-zieg-steinbrenner-collection-of-u-s-gold-coins/
The PCGS POP 8/8 coin is not a Condition Census Top 5, but Heritage describes as “Seldom Seen Finer”. The coin was describes as: The curvature of the dies for Saint-Gaudens new double eagle design made it impossible for the Mint to produce the brilliant finish proofs of earlier years, so an artistic sandblast finish was employed for the annual proof offerings, beginning in 1908. Sandblasted surfaces exhibit numerous minute facets that reflect the light at different angles, giving a coin an unusual sparkle. Unfortunately, contemporary collectors much preferred the old brilliant proofs.
Mr. Hansen purchased the coin for $75,000. PCGS Price Guide listed the coin at $100,000. The last PR65 to sell in auction was by Stacks Bowers for $76,375, August 2014. So, it appears the price paid was in line with expectation.
Provenance: The Joan Zieg Steinbrenner Collection
In comparison, The Eliasberg registry indicates that he had a better coin, estimate graded PR66. The specimen was purchased by Louis Eliasberg when he acquired the John Clapp collection in 1942. Originally, it was purchased by John Clapp from J.C. Mitchelson in 1909. At the Bowers & Ruddy Oct '82 Eliasberg sale, the coin was purchased by Don Kagin for $28,600.
1908 Double Eagle Motto, Matte Proof PR65
Certification #25217804, PCGS #9205
PCGS POP 8/8 / PCGS Coin Guide Value: $100,000
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Burn the note and wait to hear from a lucky B&M dealer.
Folks have been examining 1975 Proof sets for decades. I'll bet every set still in dealers' stocks have been examined at least a dozen times each! Those coins are still out there, held by non collectors and SAH buyers who have no idea the no-S exists. Eventually, those sets will be sold on to the market and will make headlines with each new find.
Er...one? I'd like to tell you how I really look at my coins but that would confirm I'm crazy!
Love this scenario if I'm on the discovering/slabbing end of it. I wouldn't be a buyer of same but I'd sure love to make something along these lines!
Currin. I will enter a coin I have been diligently looking for. The 1819 $5 Gold BD-2. One of the basic set coins. I will enter it tomorrow. Look forward to your Thoughts. DellLoy Hansen
Sounds like a great pickup. The BD-2 is definitely the rarer of the 1819s. If it is the coin that I am thinking of... WOW!
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
1855-D $5 Liberty. Medium D. PCGS graded MS-62
Pop 1; finest graded at PCGS. Only 4 graded in total
This is a description of this coin from an Ira & Larry Goldberg Coins Auction in May of 2006. From the best of my knowledge, the description is still true more than 13 years later. This coin upgrades “The Collection” basic set. Previously, The Collection had an 1855-D Large D (normal coin PCGS #8263) graded AU53 in the set. This coin is more than an upgrade; it is an addition to the Major Varieties Set. I have mention on several occasions, the progress that is being made. The PCGS Registry Set for Pre-1965 Major Varieties requires 439 coins in addition and to the basic coins. By my most recent assessment, it appears to me that Hansen has purchase almost 90% of the required Major Varieties US Coins. In comparison, Eliasberg collected only approx. 65% of the Major Varieties by current PCGS standards. I know the coins for Major Varieties have evolved over the years, but in my assessment, I believe Eliasberg was missing some of the key coins. I plan to share more in the future on the Major Varieties.
I don’t know for sure if anyone has completed the Liberty Head $5 Gold with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes (1839-1908) Set. PCGS describes the set as: The basic set of this series is a monumental accomplishment and this variety set is that and more. If you’re going to tackle this long and challenging collection, though, why not go all the way? There are coins from seven different Mints as a starter, plus the ultra-ultra-rare 1854-S $5 and much more. Then add Tall Dates and Small Dates and over-mintmarks and other varieties and you’ll have a lifetime of enjoyment from a single series! Harry Bass is given registry credit for completing 99.09% of the 220 required coins. He was missing the 1853-D Medium D. I am not sure the coin was required in his day. If it was, I am curious why he did not obtain a specimen. The other missing coin is the 1854-S. We all know 1854-S coin was a gouging hole in Bass’ half eagle set.
1855-D $5 Medium D, MS62, PGGS POP 1/0
The description given for this coin by Ira & Larry Goldberg is: Lovely rich orange-gold toning on both sides. Wonderful eye appeal. 22,432 mintage. Pop 1; finest graded at PCGS. Only 4 graded in total. Always frosty for the issue, as seen here, the bright orange gold surface is nearly gem quality with only a few tiny bagmarks. Mathematically exact standards would seen in the sharp centers, but this date is noteworthy for its "average" to soft detail in the key high points, such as the hair below Liberty's ear; on the reverse, the soft detail softens even further as though either the dies were worn or their spacing did not impart the requisite force to insure that the planchet would fill the recesses completely. All the same this is a very attractive of a scarce year, one that will go down in the record books. The coin realized $16,100 in 2006.
Prior to the Ira & Larry Goldberg in 2006, I believe the coin appeared in the Heritage 2003, (FUN) Signature Sale in Orlando, FL. The coin carried a different certification and appeared in a different PCGS holder. On the holder, the coin was pedigreed to “Ashland City”. The coin was the same PCGS grade, and presented as Finest Known 1855-D Medium D Half Eagle, MS62. This is the description from 16 years ago: The 1855-D is a very scarce and underrated issue in the series of Dahlonega Fives. Only 95-105 pieces are believed known in all grades and just a couple or three Uncirculated pieces are believed extant today. However, we must interject here that what is known and reported about this issue has been for the Large D variant. Nothing is mentioned in Akers, Breen, or Winter about a second die variety and so we conclude that the Condition Census information listed in Winter (63, 61, 58 multiples) is for the Large D variety. Likewise, we assume the Medium D is considerably rarer than its Large D counterpart. This is the finest example known and certified by either of the major services, and it may stand as the finest known for quite some time until this variety's absolute and condition rarity is fully known. The centers are weakly defined, as always on this issue, but the surfaces are thickly frosted and covered with rich reddish patina. There are no major marks or impairments of any kind on either side of this exceptional coin. In 2003, the coin realized $14,950.
I have not been able to find out much information on the coin after these two decade old sales. The coin remains the finest graded for the variety. I believe Mr. Hansen purchased the coin privately, but cannot be certain of the details. PCGS coin value places a price tag of $30,000 on the coin. This is another nice half eagle addition to The Hansen Collection.
Provenance: Ashland City Collection
In an Eliasberg comparison, the PCGS registry indicates that he did not own a 1855-D Medium D specimen. His example was the 1855-D Large D, estimated grade AU58. The coin was purchased at the Bowers & Ruddy Oct '82 Eliasberg sale by Jack Hancock and Bob Harwell for $2,090. Lot #474.
1855-D $5 Medium D, MS62 (Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #98263 / PCGS Serial #08384688 / POP 1/0
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Kudos to @DLHansen on an outstanding purchase. There is some discussion among Dahlonega specialists whether the ‘55 Large D or Medium D is the rarer variety; regardless, any 1855-D $5 above AU 55 and with nice eye appeal is a very rare find. As a Dahlonega enthusiast, all I can say is, WOW!
Very nice coin. The understanding of the medium and large D varieties is all out of whack and even has been adjusted a few times by DW. A simple review of coinfacts before it was adulterated would have shown nearly all images examples as medium D. The large D is the much rarer of the two. The major grading companies have been inconsistent on designating these varieties.
Latin American Collection
Speaking of Dahlonega,
@Currin said:
I just happened to notice that the 1853-D Medium D $5 is no longer in the registry set for the Dahlonega Complete Set with Major Varieties. It was on the list a week ago?? If that’s the case, it looks like he needs only the 1840-D (Small D) $5 to complete that registry set.
Still waiting on the 1819 $5.
Count Down 15 in Eliasberg Quest
The Finest Collectible 1819 Normal Reverse Half Eagle
One of Perhaps Just Four Known From These Dies
1819 Capped Head Left Half Eagle. Bass Dannreuther-2. Rarity-7. Normal Reverse. MS61 (PCGS)
5th coin in Last Box of 20…… Present Box Value = $2,182,800
With only fifteen coins to go in the Eliasberg Quest, at this point, each additional coin is getting harder and more difficult to find. Mr. Hansen informed us that the 1819 half eagle is one that “I have been diligently looking for”. As with many of us that have assembled a set of coins know first hand, that sometimes we cannot get the coin that we want to complete the set. For the 1819 half eagle, this is not the case for Mr. Hansen. The new addition is from the Pogue Collection, and any coin from that collection is a “Masterpiece”.
If you are familiar with the early half eagle series, and this date, you know there are two major varieties, the normal date and the overdate. This is a case where the normal date is more difficult to find than the overdate. The new Hansen purchase is the only collectable specimen that is in mint condition, graded at PCGS MS61. By some accounts, this specimen is “roughly tied” with the impounded Bass coin for finest known. David Akers provides this information: This is another of the many famous rarities of this type. However, contrary to the comments made by some cataloguers, it is less rare as a date than the 1815 with possibly 15-18 specimens known in all grades. Unlike the 1815, however, it is not the case with the 1819 that most known specimens are uncirculated as a number of the existing examples are in the VF to EF range. There are two major varieties of this date, one with "normal dies" and the other with the 5D over 50 reverse of 1818. The two varieties are of comparable rarity and neither would bring a premium over the other.
The 1819 half eagle has a trifecta of varieties. The first two are the well-known major varieties, and the third a more recent discovered, third die state variety. All three varieties are now recognized by John Dannreuther and he confirmed the new variety on March 19, 2014. Let’s take a quick look at them.
Bass-Dannreuther 1. 1819 Wide Date, 5D over 50
By most accounts, the number of known specimens is between 17-19. There are two, maybe three coins that could be graded gems. First being the MS65 PCGS graded Garrett-Pogue Specimen. By some accounts, there is an ungraded specimen in Harry W. Bass Jr. Foundation Collection that may be a MS65. There could be a third, the Virgil Brand specimen sold by Bowers and Merena in 1983. Hansen does not have a specimen of the 1819 BD-1 half eagle. If the Pogue specimen was to come available, it would be interesting to see if Mr. Hansen has any desire to purchase. The Pogue specimen sold in 2016 for record breaking $423,000.
Bass-Dannreuther 2. 1819 Close Date, Normal Reverse
Some accounts give seven as number of known specimens. That may be a stretch. In the Pogue sale, the listing indicated “perhaps” only four known. Whether the number is four or seven, the coin is pretty rare. The Pogue-Hansen Specimen may be the finest. The only specimen that may come close to this coin is the King Farouk / Harry W. Bass, Jr. Foundation Specimen. The coin is normally considered and referenced as an AU58, but you know how grades go.
Bass-Dannreuther 3. 1819 Wide Date, Normal Reverse (1 Known)
This is an impaired unique coin. The coin sold in Heritage’s 2014 ANA US Coins Signature Auction. The coin has AU details, but listed by NGC as plugged and whizzed. This is the description given for this unique coin: Recently, in March 2014, a new third variety was discovered by Mark Borckardt, or perhaps it is the old third variety noted in the Adams notebook. This new variety combines the Wide Date obverse of BD-1, with an entirely new and previously unreported reverse die. NGC has described the coin as plugged and whizzed, although the damage is not obvious. The reverse die makes no other appearances in the entire half eagle series, and is known only on this unique 1819 half eagle that is now called BD-3. John Dannreuther examined images and confirmed the new variety on March 19, 2014. This example has light greenish-yellow surfaces with hints of orange toning about the peripheries. The surfaces are lightly polished, but lack the distinctive appearance of whizzing. Minor marks are noted on each side, including disturbances at the upper obverse and lower reverse that NCS describes with the "plugged" label. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I have no idea if Mr. Hansen has any desired for this coin. The overall appearance of the coin is very good. As we know, Mr. Hansen does not reject coins because they may be impaired. Also, he needs the Bass impaired 1870-S Gold Three Dollar to complete the quest.
1819 $5 BD-2 MS61, Green-Pogue-Hansen Specimen, Pop 1/0
I have used up a lot of space and have not talked much about the new coin. Really the coin speaks for itself. PCGS POP 1/0, Ex: Pogue, one of maybe 4 known, a quest countdown coin, what could be better? Although I feel we could end here, I really must share this magnificent description from the Pogue Sale: One of the classic rarities of the series, the finest collectible example of the 1819 Normal Reverse half eagle may seem to be a bit of a letdown, graded only MS-61. It is, however, the only Mint State coin certified by PCGS and roughly tied with the impounded Bass coin for finest known honors. The surfaces are attractive medium yellow gold with traces of coppery highlights around design elements, particularly prominent on the reverse. The reverse is more lustrous than the obverse, offering a surfeit of cartwheel luster. The obverse is likewise lustrous, but more subtly so, with cartwheel encircling the inside of the rims. Fully struck on both sides, this coin shows no areas of weakness among the designs. The obverse shows a significant population of hairlines, but no bad marks. We note a tiny nick on the raised rim above star 5, a thin curved scratch above star 12, and a short horizontal scratch high on Liberty’s throat. The reverse is lightly hairlined but more lively, with the appearance of a higher grade. A tiny nick is unobtrusive above the top of the wing at right, and a short scratch below the tip of the beak is scarcely noticeable. The dies are perfect, unclashed and uncracked.
The coin sold for $141,000 in 2016 in The D. Brent Pogue Collection, Part III Sale. PCGS values the coin at $140,000. We do not know what Mr. Hansen offered in the private transaction. In any case, this is a great addition to the “Great Collection”, that is getting better at each update.
Provenance: Peter Mougey Collection; Peter Mougey Estate, 1908; Thomas Elder’s sale of the Peter Mougey Collection, September 1910, lot 1070; William H. Woodin Collection; Waldo C. Newcomer Collection, by sale, early 1920s; Col. Edward Howland Robinson Green Collection, by sale, via B. Max Mehl, 1931; Stack’s, by sale, 1943; Henry P. Graves Collection; Gwendolen Graves Fullerton, by descent, 1953; Stack’s sale of the Davis-Graves Collection, April 1954, lot 1449; Stack’s sale of the Dr. Clifford Smith Collection, May 1955, lot 1682; Stack’s 1976 American Numismatic Association sale, August 1976, lot 2936; Paramount International Coin Corporation’s Rare Coin List No. 15, April-May 1977, page 80; Superior Galleries’ “Connoisseur’s Collection” sale of January 1989, lot 354, via David Akers; Stacks Bowers, Feb 9, 2016 of The D. Brent Pogue Collection, Part III, unknown buyer; D.L. Hansen Collection by private transaction, Sept., 2019.
In comparing to Eliasberg’s specimen, according to information provided by PCGS Registry, he did not acquired the 1819 “Normal Die” half eagle specimen. His example for this coin was an estimated grade AU58 Wide Date, 5D over 50 specimen. Ex. Smith Collection; Chapman (1906); Clapp Collection (1942). Sold by Bowers & Ruddy Oct '82 price realized $37,400. Lot #374.
1819 Normal Reverse Half Eagle
PCGS Coin #519918 / PCGS Serial #32189880 / POP 1/1
Ex: Mougey - Newcomer - Green - Graves – Pogue
There are 15 remaining coins in the Eliasberg Quest. The 11 coins that are not listed in “U.S. Coins Complete Basic, Circulation Strikes Set” are Bold below. The remaining 4 coins plus the 1875 $10 in Business Strike is needed to complete the registry set. Hansen has a proof specimen 1875 $10 which meets the Eliasberg set definition (either business strike or proof counts), therefor is not shown on this list.
Top 10
1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in Tom Bender PCGS Registry Collection)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection)
1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA)
1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in Simpson Collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection)
1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 16, Unique Legally Owned Coin - anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, Two known in private: 1-Pogue AU58+; 2- XF45 sold July 2018)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples could be privately purchased)
1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private owned)
1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase)
Next 5
1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8)
1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9)
1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24)
1839 Gobrecht Original Dollar (Survival 60-75)
1798 Quarter Eagle (Survival 80)
Note: DLH was a partner in the purchase of the 1854-S XF45 Half Eagle being that he's a partner with DLRC, but after purchasing the coin, DLRC reported the specimen was sold to an undisclosed client.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
The 1819 is a fantastic coin
Latin American Collection
What a coin and what a collection!
Gorgeous
That 1819 is a stunner! Can't believe he is down to just 15 coins.
Later, Paul.
Just ran across this Eliasberg coin. It's one of the first 10 Morgan Dollars struck at the San Francisco Mint and a presentation piece. It could be something for Dell Loy to be on the look out for:
This is pedigreed to J. Gus. Burt, Emanuel Wertman, and Eliasberg. In the 1910 Wertman sale, it sold for just $1.10!
It's an interesting coin, but Eliasberg owned a lot of different coins, including colonial, foreign and ancient coins.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12308934/#Comment_12308934
I'm not sure the "complete US coins" quest should get redirected to obtaining everything that Eliasberg once owned....
It's true Eliasberg had a large variety of holdings as he even had a gold Confederate cent, Humbert slug, and a set of gold Lincoln medals! However, this particular coin is a Morgan Dollar presentation strike, so it's much closer to the current US coin focus, perhaps even more so than pattern coins.
I had no idea that existed. WOW.
Curious how NGC graded that coin with graffiti that visible. I could understand if it was in a Genuine holder.
It’s clearly a special presentation piece made clear by the etching and the etching doesn’t detract in the way a large “X” would.
Latin American Collection
Understood, but is it still graffiti added to the coin after striking?
Normally graffiti is not finely engraved.
Don't you suspect it was done at the mint?
I believe that it is. However, due to the special circumstances, to many or most, it’s acceptable, and in fact, adds to the value of the coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That doesn’t preclude it from being graffiti, since it still occurred after the coin was struck.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.