Based on my previous posted calculations, the average numbers ordered appears to be about
42,000 total Mint orders placed x 70% = approx 30k orders for the rev. proof ÷ 114,000 = 4+ average order as of 1st day.
I do not think the "big boys" will make much of a dent. This set may be available for a while longer.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
@OPA said:
Based on my previous posted calculations, the average numbers ordered appears to be about
42,000 total Mint orders placed x 70% = approx 30k orders for the rev. proof ÷ 114,000 = 4+ average order as of 1st day.
I do not think the "big boys" will make much of a dent. This set may be available for a while longer.
It has to be more like 40,000 orders. The Mint does not get 10,000 orders per day. They only get about 12 to 14,000 orders per WEEK.
My order #was 592**** about an hour ago. That puts orders close to 50,000 in 24 hours. That should translate into about 45,000 reverse proof orders. But then the math gets sketchy. They were averaging around 3 per order yesterday, but the cap is off today.
I'm going to hypothesize that we're over 150,000 sold at this point.
@alohagary said:
Does anyone know the price for the bulk orders
I think it depends on who the buyer is. I saw something yesterday that said the discounts applied were based on your tier. @nurmaler probably knows better, but they are all under 10%. I think 5% is the most common based on what people were saying last year.
first day sales revised DOWN to 106,108. Not great overall compared to first expectations, but there are some key coins in this set individually that should do well eventually if high quality.
@coinpalice said:
they might still do well if they sellout in 2 weeks. I could be wrong. the Kennedy half is selling strong right now, as is the penny
The Kennedy half was selling well yesterday. I don't see many sales today, although the $40 ask seems high given EU halves are more like $15 raw.
I just bought 10 cents at 12.99 because that's less than the EU cents go for. Nickel and dime are dogs again. The quarters are barely above melt with people selling them at 20ish with free shipping [that's net about 15 against $14 melt]
Lack of a sellout by now means the big guys don't believe in the set.
While the set together may be a flop for some flippers, I believe some coins will turn out to be really good value if graded PCGS PR70. There are 7 silver coins that are unique S-mints. I plan to study mine real close when they arrive tomorrow. At this point I don't know that I even want a sellout. Return them all back if not perfect and it will be lowest mintage for several and may go up in price later and not a quick sugar high.
I wish PCGS would do a graded first strike set special for these as it is a lot of money to do 10 coins individually.
Lets face it, there's not much here.
Silver quarters, good, but some random design that i don't even know what they are doing anymore.
Dollar, nickel and penny, all fine reverse proofs, but not silver.
So really all we have is Silver Half dollar reverse proof and the silver dime reverse proof.
@goldbuffalo said:
Lets face it, there's not much here.
Silver quarters, good, but some random design that i don't even know what they are doing anymore.
Dollar, nickel and penny, all fine reverse proofs, but not silver.
So really all we have is Silver Half dollar reverse proof and the silver dime reverse proof.
I once was going to buy an MS-66 Red 1909-SVDB cent...then I realized it wasn't silver.
I guarantee - all bets welcome - that the Lincoln reverse proof cent will sell for far more than the dime.
I once was going to buy an MS-66 Red 1909-SVDB cent...then I realized it wasn't silver.
I guarantee - all bets welcome - that the Lincoln reverse proof cent will sell for far more than the dime.
The 1909-S VDB had 484,000 minted.
This one maybe only 150,000-200,000 minted, so in dozens of years and if several thousand rich Chinese millionaires want to buy proof US coins for a hobby, it may be worth holding, even if it is not silver, but probably only for a PR70 to get the $$$$
I once was going to buy an MS-66 Red 1909-SVDB cent...then I realized it wasn't silver.
I guarantee - all bets welcome - that the Lincoln reverse proof cent will sell for far more than the dime.
The 1909-S VDB had 484,000 minted.
This one maybe only 150,000-200,000 minted, so in dozens of years and if several thousand rich Chinese millionaires want to buy proof US coins for a hobby, it may be worth holding, even if it is not silver, but probably only for a PR70 to get the $$$$
This misses the point. The point is that the metal composition is irrelevant.
This misses the point. The point is that the metal composition is irrelevant.
I guarantee - all bets welcome - that the Lincoln reverse proof cent will sell for far more than the dime
Agree that composition is not as important as demand, quality/rarity, and the purchasing power of collectors.
There are a lot of Roosie collectors, too. If all these dimes come back PR69, and say 5 come back PR70 in the next year or so, prices for top pops can get crazy. Same with the Lincolns or any of the other coins. It is never easy to estimate PR70 values and numbers.
Okay I broke down and bought 2 sets. When I get them I am going to make sure I seal off the box and put instructions for my grandbaby, to wait 20 years before opening the box. Then and only then can she sell it off! My present to my grand baby. Will it help her get through college?
@Gluggo said:
Okay I broke down and bought 2 sets. When I get them I am going to make sure I seal off the box and put instructions for my grandbaby, to wait 20 years before opening the box. Then and only then can she sell it off! My present to my grand baby. Will it help her get through college?
It could help a lot, but only if you happened to get a set with a missing S mint strike, wrong finish or die match, double die strike, or other major error on one of the coins.
But if you seal it up without looking, you may never know if you had the one that really mattered...……….
Life is not easy. They say you learn from mistakes, but I am getting pretty old and still make them. Modern silver is an addiction.
I have a bunch of Wheat Cents that I rolled by date mint mark in 1968, and wrote on them note to open until 1998. I thought they would be worth a fortune by then, as it would probably be my unborn nieces and nephews who would open them. Low draft number.
I hear you gold miner but if I decide to buy one for me I am still waiting for the graded one. So far only BU makes me think its not worth the coins to pay for the grading.
The only reason to keep it sealed is for First Strike designation. Get them slabbed now and add it to a time capsule with other coins of the era, also slabbed....Gold, Platinum and Palladium. The 20 year provision could be real exciting.
I am a bulk (dealer) buyer with the Mint. The discount is no where remotely close to 10% and depends upon how much you spend each year. The discount does really matter on precious metal buys. Not so much in my mind on Proof sets. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
I am a bulk (dealer) buyer with the Mint. The discount is no where remotely close to 10% and depends upon how much you spend each year. The discount does really matter on precious metal buys. Not so much in my mind on Proof sets. Wondercoin.
Good to hear from you. Did you buy any of these? Do you see any good flip opportunities this year?
I ordered 3 sets at noon ET 7/23. Really hoping that this set sells good. I’ve got two on my eBay store. Rohagem. CDN reports 106,000 sold on the first day. Not a good sign.
@wondercoin said:
I am a bulk (dealer) buyer with the Mint. The discount is no where remotely close to 10% and depends upon how much you spend each year. The discount does really matter on precious metal buys. Not so much in my mind on Proof sets. Wondercoin.
Good to hear from you. Did you buy any of these? Do you see any good flip opportunities this year?
@wondercoin said:
I am a bulk (dealer) buyer with the Mint. The discount is no where remotely close to 10% and depends upon how much you spend each year. The discount does really matter on precious metal buys. Not so much in my mind on Proof sets. Wondercoin.
Good to hear from you. Did you buy any of these? Do you see any good flip opportunities this year?
Wondering the same. Is it gonna be a good flip?
This set? No. If it doesn't sell out in a day, there's no easy flip.
@wondercoin said:
I am a bulk (dealer) buyer with the Mint. The discount is no where remotely close to 10% and depends upon how much you spend each year. The discount does really matter on precious metal buys. Not so much in my mind on Proof sets. Wondercoin.
Good to hear from you. Did you buy any of these? Do you see any good flip opportunities this year?
Wondering the same. Is it gonna be a good flip?
This set? No. If it doesn't sell out in a day, there's no easy flip.
Oh, that’s great. I bought two sets to sell, one to keep. Maybe I’ll just keep all 3.
@Gluggo said:
Okay I broke down and bought 2 sets. When I get them I am going to make sure I seal off the box and put instructions for my grandbaby, to wait 20 years before opening the box. Then and only then can she sell it off! My present to my grand baby. Will it help her get through college?
It could help a lot, but only if you happened to get a set with a missing S mint strike, wrong finish or die match, double die strike, or other major error on one of the coins.
But if you seal it up without looking, you may never know if you had the one that really mattered...……….
Life is not easy. They say you learn from mistakes, but I am getting pretty old and still make them. Modern silver is an addiction.
I really hope there’s a mint error on some of these
I did buy some of these, but just a small fraction of the number of 2017 Enhanced sets I bought last year. We all know how the Enhanced Sets turned out. And, I am not overly optimistic these sets will perform a whole lot better (although I personally believe they will perform somewhat better). But, there are often other factors present for dealers like myself in buying sets like these.
First, even if they end up "break even" in the end, grading thousands of coins from these sets helps achieve the highest "bulk account" rating at PCGS (and, hence, the lowest bulk pricing for 2019).
Second, my son Justin enjoys meeting hundreds, if not thousands, of coin buyers when he sells coins like these on eBay under his "monstercoinmart" account. A buyer of a sub-$100 coin might be your next million dollar customer. You just never know.
Third, and most important to me, buying products like these on the right credit cards earns valuable points used in my business. I expect to take at least (5) trips to Asia this year (4th trip coming up in a few weeks). I love flying First Class and not paying for the tickets using points. My last trip on one of the finest airlines in the sky allowed me to fly (round trip) First Class ($15,000 USD) for just 120,000 points (and less than $100 cash)..
So, if I spend $120,000 on Mint product, I can enjoy $15,000 in free airline ticket value - tickets I could never justify paying cash for, but don't think twice about using the points to obtain. Here is the "hidden", near 10%, added return on coins most never consider or take advantage of. These 120,000 points not used effectively can have a value of just $1,200 to most people as compared to $15,000 to me on that International travel.
Sorry, I departed from straight coin talk, but, the 3 factors I mentioned above often greatly justify dealing with products that appear to be marginal at best (while being "winners" to a coin business). To the average collector, a product might appear to be a no question "avoid" while at the same time that product might work wonderfully to a coin business considering the "intangibles". Understand what YOUR personal strategy needs to be before buying, or not buying, bulk quantities of sets like these.
As always, just my 2 cents. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Dude (M) -- as always, I always appreciate your 2 cents. I'm so tired of flying coach! Gotta get in on better point deals. Maybe worth lower flippability on some Mint products! Thanks!!
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
@jmlanzaf I think the US mint setting a production number of 200,000 was problem 1. if they took it down to even 125,000 it would of been a winner. They are just out of touch IMO.
@Kkathyl said: @jmlanzaf I think the US mint setting a production number of 200,000 was problem 1. if they took it down to even 125,000 it would of been a winner. They are just out of touch IMO.
well, to be fair, their goal is not to create flipping opportunities. That said, people should be at least a little concerned that coin demand continues to fall. If there aren't 200,000 hard-core Lincoln cent collectors anymore, the hobby is in trouble. [Of course, they may be waiting to be single coins.]
I believe this lull in the market will equal opportunity but at a later time. Its just folk find the need to make money on investments, for now in stocks. It wont last forever, but these lower qty could mean higher value down the road. Look at the older ATB's they sell for 5-10 times on some issues. you just never know. 2015-2016 was very unusual time for flipping. Like @wondercoin said. Always ways to make a little per on these issues.
The problem with Coin Folks is that they ( we) refuse to see that Coins are yesterdays Hula Hoop. Or is it yesterdays Fidget Spinners?
All yesteryears casual Collectors got burned bad when the State Quarters ended. They likely tried to cash out of their Treasured Collections ( of State Quarters) and were made bitter by offers of 20 - 22 cents each.
The only ones left out here are us wanna be flippers and Dealers. Who do we flip or sell to? Give it a Bit more time and no one will be out here to buy the Mints Treasures.
it's also a case of the mint making too many different collectibles, you can pick up a older proof set for as little as 5 dollars, some people would rather collect the cheap older stuff. collectors only have so much money. it took me close to a year to sell off my EU sets, I only bought a few of these as one of the quarters is my home state
Comments
Based on my previous posted calculations, the average numbers ordered appears to be about
42,000 total Mint orders placed x 70% = approx 30k orders for the rev. proof ÷ 114,000 = 4+ average order as of 1st day.
I do not think the "big boys" will make much of a dent. This set may be available for a while longer.
It has to be more like 40,000 orders. The Mint does not get 10,000 orders per day. They only get about 12 to 14,000 orders per WEEK.
I think they probable at the 50% sold level by now.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
As previously reported & posted:
First-day sales reached 114,108 sets.
Per: Mike Unser, editor of coinnews.net
bottom of the article
http://www.coinnews.net/2018/07/23/san-francisco-mints-2018-silver-reverse-proof-set-launch/
My order #was 592**** about an hour ago. That puts orders close to 50,000 in 24 hours. That should translate into about 45,000 reverse proof orders. But then the math gets sketchy. They were averaging around 3 per order yesterday, but the cap is off today.
I'm going to hypothesize that we're over 150,000 sold at this point.
Does anyone know the price for the bulk orders
I think it depends on who the buyer is. I saw something yesterday that said the discounts applied were based on your tier. @nurmaler probably knows better, but they are all under 10%. I think 5% is the most common based on what people were saying last year.
The HH limit should be lifted tomorrow. Sell-out by Friday.
the HH limit has already been lifted...but you may be right about Friday.
Don't quote me on that.
first day sales revised DOWN to 106,108. Not great overall compared to first expectations, but there are some key coins in this set individually that should do well eventually if high quality.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Thanks. I didn't see that.
looks like we have some canceled orders already, The U.S. Mint revised first-day sales to 106,108 from 114,108 sets
Not a good sign
they might still do well if they sellout in 2 weeks. I could be wrong. the Kennedy half is selling strong right now, as is the penny
The Kennedy half was selling well yesterday. I don't see many sales today, although the $40 ask seems high given EU halves are more like $15 raw.
I just bought 10 cents at 12.99 because that's less than the EU cents go for. Nickel and dime are dogs again. The quarters are barely above melt with people selling them at 20ish with free shipping [that's net about 15 against $14 melt]
Lack of a sellout by now means the big guys don't believe in the set.
While the set together may be a flop for some flippers, I believe some coins will turn out to be really good value if graded PCGS PR70. There are 7 silver coins that are unique S-mints. I plan to study mine real close when they arrive tomorrow. At this point I don't know that I even want a sellout. Return them all back if not perfect and it will be lowest mintage for several and may go up in price later and not a quick sugar high.
I wish PCGS would do a graded first strike set special for these as it is a lot of money to do 10 coins individually.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
gem grade
worse than a 68
I am guessing this is the answer to the new return policy. the new return policy may result in fewer dealers buying larger quantities.
My order shipped.
Any body get there coins today?
Lets face it, there's not much here.
Silver quarters, good, but some random design that i don't even know what they are doing anymore.
Dollar, nickel and penny, all fine reverse proofs, but not silver.
So really all we have is Silver Half dollar reverse proof and the silver dime reverse proof.
I once was going to buy an MS-66 Red 1909-SVDB cent...then I realized it wasn't silver.
I guarantee - all bets welcome - that the Lincoln reverse proof cent will sell for far more than the dime.
Lifted the household limit and still no sellout? Glad I went with my gut.
any update on the number remaining or is it still above 10,000?
Don't quote me on that.
The 1909-S VDB had 484,000 minted.
This one maybe only 150,000-200,000 minted, so in dozens of years and if several thousand rich Chinese millionaires want to buy proof US coins for a hobby, it may be worth holding, even if it is not silver, but probably only for a PR70 to get the $$$$
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
This misses the point. The point is that the metal composition is irrelevant.
jmlanzav said,
Agree that composition is not as important as demand, quality/rarity, and the purchasing power of collectors.
There are a lot of Roosie collectors, too. If all these dimes come back PR69, and say 5 come back PR70 in the next year or so, prices for top pops can get crazy. Same with the Lincolns or any of the other coins. It is never easy to estimate PR70 values and numbers.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Okay I broke down and bought 2 sets. When I get them I am going to make sure I seal off the box and put instructions for my grandbaby, to wait 20 years before opening the box. Then and only then can she sell it off! My present to my grand baby. Will it help her get through college?
It could help a lot, but only if you happened to get a set with a missing S mint strike, wrong finish or die match, double die strike, or other major error on one of the coins.
But if you seal it up without looking, you may never know if you had the one that really mattered...……….
Life is not easy. They say you learn from mistakes, but I am getting pretty old and still make them. Modern silver is an addiction.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I have a bunch of Wheat Cents that I rolled by date mint mark in 1968, and wrote on them note to open until 1998. I thought they would be worth a fortune by then, as it would probably be my unborn nieces and nephews who would open them. Low draft number.
I hear you gold miner but if I decide to buy one for me I am still waiting for the graded one. So far only BU makes me think its not worth the coins to pay for the grading.
The only reason to keep it sealed is for First Strike designation. Get them slabbed now and add it to a time capsule with other coins of the era, also slabbed....Gold, Platinum and Palladium. The 20 year provision could be real exciting.
I am a bulk (dealer) buyer with the Mint. The discount is no where remotely close to 10% and depends upon how much you spend each year. The discount does really matter on precious metal buys. Not so much in my mind on Proof sets. Wondercoin.
Good to hear from you. Did you buy any of these? Do you see any good flip opportunities this year?
wonder same question do you see an opportunity to make bank with this set or does it require the Silver Dollar to really make this attractive?
I ordered 3 sets at noon ET 7/23. Really hoping that this set sells good. I’ve got two on my eBay store. Rohagem. CDN reports 106,000 sold on the first day. Not a good sign.
Wondering the same. Is it gonna be a good flip?
This set? No. If it doesn't sell out in a day, there's no easy flip.
Oh, that’s great. I bought two sets to sell, one to keep. Maybe I’ll just keep all 3.
I really hope there’s a mint error on some of these
The days of "easy flips" may be a thing of the past....may it rest in peace
Hi guys.
I did buy some of these, but just a small fraction of the number of 2017 Enhanced sets I bought last year. We all know how the Enhanced Sets turned out. And, I am not overly optimistic these sets will perform a whole lot better (although I personally believe they will perform somewhat better). But, there are often other factors present for dealers like myself in buying sets like these.
First, even if they end up "break even" in the end, grading thousands of coins from these sets helps achieve the highest "bulk account" rating at PCGS (and, hence, the lowest bulk pricing for 2019).
Second, my son Justin enjoys meeting hundreds, if not thousands, of coin buyers when he sells coins like these on eBay under his "monstercoinmart" account. A buyer of a sub-$100 coin might be your next million dollar customer. You just never know.
Third, and most important to me, buying products like these on the right credit cards earns valuable points used in my business. I expect to take at least (5) trips to Asia this year (4th trip coming up in a few weeks). I love flying First Class and not paying for the tickets using points. My last trip on one of the finest airlines in the sky allowed me to fly (round trip) First Class ($15,000 USD) for just 120,000 points (and less than $100 cash)..
So, if I spend $120,000 on Mint product, I can enjoy $15,000 in free airline ticket value - tickets I could never justify paying cash for, but don't think twice about using the points to obtain. Here is the "hidden", near 10%, added return on coins most never consider or take advantage of. These 120,000 points not used effectively can have a value of just $1,200 to most people as compared to $15,000 to me on that International travel.
Sorry, I departed from straight coin talk, but, the 3 factors I mentioned above often greatly justify dealing with products that appear to be marginal at best (while being "winners" to a coin business). To the average collector, a product might appear to be a no question "avoid" while at the same time that product might work wonderfully to a coin business considering the "intangibles". Understand what YOUR personal strategy needs to be before buying, or not buying, bulk quantities of sets like these.
As always, just my 2 cents. Wondercoin.
Very informative, thanks wondercoin
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
As always, just my 2 cents. Wondercoin.
Dude (M) -- as always, I always appreciate your 2 cents. I'm so tired of flying coach! Gotta get in on better point deals. Maybe worth lower flippability on some Mint products! Thanks!!
bad cards make the first day sales change every time dont read too much into it.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
True, but barely 100,000 sales is still barely 100,000 sales.
@jmlanzaf I think the US mint setting a production number of 200,000 was problem 1. if they took it down to even 125,000 it would of been a winner. They are just out of touch IMO.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
well, to be fair, their goal is not to create flipping opportunities. That said, people should be at least a little concerned that coin demand continues to fall. If there aren't 200,000 hard-core Lincoln cent collectors anymore, the hobby is in trouble. [Of course, they may be waiting to be single coins.]
I believe this lull in the market will equal opportunity but at a later time. Its just folk find the need to make money on investments, for now in stocks. It wont last forever, but these lower qty could mean higher value down the road. Look at the older ATB's they sell for 5-10 times on some issues. you just never know. 2015-2016 was very unusual time for flipping. Like @wondercoin said. Always ways to make a little per on these issues.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
The problem with Coin Folks is that they ( we) refuse to see that Coins are yesterdays Hula Hoop. Or is it yesterdays Fidget Spinners?
All yesteryears casual Collectors got burned bad when the State Quarters ended. They likely tried to cash out of their Treasured Collections ( of State Quarters) and were made bitter by offers of 20 - 22 cents each.
The only ones left out here are us wanna be flippers and Dealers. Who do we flip or sell to? Give it a Bit more time and no one will be out here to buy the Mints Treasures.
it's also a case of the mint making too many different collectibles, you can pick up a older proof set for as little as 5 dollars, some people would rather collect the cheap older stuff. collectors only have so much money. it took me close to a year to sell off my EU sets, I only bought a few of these as one of the quarters is my home state