@CascadeChris said:
I think, but don't hold me to It, that it was a silver eagle or silver eagle set. Maybe anniversary. I know it happened though. Someone else must.
Okay, here's what happened. A 2012-S proof Silver Eagle was part of the two-coin San Francisco 75th Anniversary Set. The Mint didn't say that the coin would be exclusive to that set, but many collectors assumed that this was the case, and they were very upset when the Mint later also included the coin in that year's Coin and Currency Set. No mintage limits were violated. This year the Mint announced well in advance that the 2017-S proof Silver Eagle would be included in both the Congratulations Set and the Limited Edition Silver Proof Set. Again, no mintage limits have been violated.
@CascadeChris said:
Just like every offering "currently unavailable" basically means sold out. A few more might go on sale in the coming days due to CC charge failures then in a month or so they officially change it to sold out.
In fact the gold Merc was unavailable for 8 months before thousands more were made available in December last year.
That was a bullion issue with an unlimited mintage. This is not.
No it had a mintage limit of 125,000.
But they still could have made however many more they wanted too if say the 125 was sold out within an hour.
Actually they couldn't without violating the terms under which the coins were sold. Plus such a move would severely damage their reputation.
Like they care about reputation, it's all about the Benjamin's, and they wouldn't be violating anything. There was no congressional legislation so they were minted under the bullion act. They could have easily upped the mintage if it was uber hot.
I was talking about the terms under which the Mint agreed to sell the coins to collectors. Part of those terms were that the Mint agreed to limit the quantity of those coins to a certain number. In other words, the coins were sold as a limited edition. Exceeding the advertised number would, in my opinion, violate the terms of sale.
And yes, the Mint does care about its reputation. If it were to go back on its word in regard to mintage limits, I would expect to see a massive drop in sales to collectors. Including me.
What "terms?" Is this in writing somewhere. What was that debacle in 2011 or 2012 where the mint did do this exact thing. Can't remember the coin but it did piss off a lot of people.
To my knowledge they have NEVER NEVER NEVER violated a mintage limit.
They have. I just can't remember the offering. I'm sure someone does
You're the one who came up with the accusation, please research and provide details.
Except for the snafu with the BBHOF gold, it hasn't happened.
@BigA said:
I believe the stated product limit was 50k
I take it in the history of the Mint they have never gone against there state production limit?
The closest they came was with the 1997 Jackie Robinson uncirculated $5 gold. They struck about 12,000 and only 5174 had sold before the official cutoff date. A senator from New York attempted to pass legislation authorizing the sale of the remaining coins on hand. The attempt failed and the 7000 coins were subsequently melted.
How is this going against produ> @CascadeChris said:
@CascadeChris said:
Just like every offering "currently unavailable" basically means sold out. A few more might go on sale in the coming days due to CC charge failures then in a month or so they officially change it to sold out.
@CascadeChris said:
Just like every offering "currently unavailable" basically means sold out. A few more might go on sale in the coming days due to CC charge failures then in a month or so they officially change it to sold out.
In fact the gold Merc was unavailable for 8 months before thousands more were made available in December last year.
That was a bullion issue with an unlimited mintage. This is not.
No it had a mintage limit of 125,000.
But they still could have made however many more they wanted too if say the 125 was sold out within an hour.
Actually they couldn't without violating the terms under which the coins were sold. Plus such a move would severely damage their reputation.
Like they care about reputation, it's all about the Benjamin's, and they wouldn't be violating anything. There was no congressional legislation so they were minted under the bullion act. They could have easily upped the mintage if it was uber hot.
I was talking about the terms under which the Mint agreed to sell the coins to collectors. Part of those terms were that the Mint agreed to limit the quantity of those coins to a certain number. In other words, the coins were sold as a limited edition. Exceeding the advertised number would, in my opinion, violate the terms of sale.
And yes, the Mint does care about its reputation. If it were to go back on its word in regard to mintage limits, I would expect to see a massive drop in sales to collectors. Including me.
What "terms?" Is this in writing somewhere. What was that debacle in 2011 or 2012 where the mint did do this exact thing. Can't remember the coin but it did piss off a lot of people.
To my knowledge they have NEVER NEVER NEVER violated a mintage limit.
They have. I just can't remember the offering. I'm sure someone does
I sure can't recall it happening in the last 10 years.
"I have a good memory, it just doesn't last very long."
I agree, I've been thinking about this since it was posted and keep drawing a blank.
The reason you can't remember is because it didn't happen. Congress dictates the mintage for all but bullion related items that the mint sells to collectors. The only products that are excluded from that law are items sold directly to the US Mints Authorized buyers and not to the public.
This isn't exactly true.
It is for commems, but those coins and medals that just need TreasSec permission (the American Liberty coins and medals, the centennial gold of last year, etc.) are self limiting mintages set by the Mint. The law allows this sort of numismatic pursuit, but has no strict mintage mandate, other than not interfering with normal production.
Coin sets like the LESP, the 2017 EU, the Congrats/Birth/whatever sets, etc, are also allowed by law, but no mintages product limits are mandated.
However, other than the BBHOF gold coin problem, sales never exceed mintage or product limits.
Edit: Incorrectly used "mintage" instead of "product".
I remember the ASE thing but I believe the product limit was firm but under "mintage limit" it said "none" for the, I believe "S", and it appeared later in the year...but it was not a mintage limit increase but a new product with the same coin previously in a no mintage limit issue...
@Manorcourtman said:
How long till these are available on eBay for below issue price? Days, weeks, months, never? I say a month or so.....
With 20,000 being sold the 2nd day (after the hh limit was lifted) I believe someone or 2 took a large position to promote the heck out of the silver eagle. You don't throw 1.4 mil into 10k sets to just dump them within 2 months. This low mintage eagle is nicely chopped up by packaging/demand to exploit. Some (5-10k) will stay in the Congrats packaging, many (25-30k) will stay in the limited edition set package and a bunch will be slabbed. This issue is fairly well spread out already with few people having more than 1 extra to sell. It's far easier to hype a set when they're spread out like this along with strong demand for a component (the eagle). Some collectors will sell their extra say at 200- 225 on the way up but most will hold off to see how far it will go. Many fewer will sell both - how many sold their 1999 silver proofs at $275? I can see the Eagles hitting $250 and the sets 300 in the next 6 months with the right marketing/hyping. Once they are spread out enough it's far easier to get and keep the price up like with the Truman $ sets, 2012 silver set etc.
buying Rhode Island Nationals please email, PM or call 401-295-3000
@Manorcourtman said:
How long till these are available on eBay for below issue price? Days, weeks, months, never? I say a month or so.....
Well the Congrats set with just the S was released over 6 months ago and that OGP set sells for $125-140 so I can't see this set with the extra coins selling for less than $140
I do remember a US Mint product going off sale becasue of rising metal prices and going back on sale after a period of time... I think it was the platinum sets but no time do I remember the Mint exceeding the mintage set by congress..
@thebigeng said:
I do remember a US Mint product going off sale becasue of rising metal prices and going back on sale after a period of time... I think it was the platinum sets but no time do I remember the Mint exceeding the mintage set by congress..
That was the 2008 plats that they pulled for a while. the price of plat dropped and no one was buying at the mint price. They came back late in the year priced lower than original mint pricing
@thebigeng said:
So, all in for about $300 bucks plus the cost of the set you can have a set graded by pcgs with FS labels..... Is it worth it? I think it is not, but am welcome to some critical analysis...
Well I just checked my Pay Pay account and I am into them for about 5K so forgot about all the spending I did on the Palladium debacle so I have no money to throw away toward grading so for now just concentrate on paying off my debt. I guess I got carried away in all the excitement!
I bought 2 sets but I think the $139.95 price per set is a rip off.
The 2017-S proof ASE was priced at $54.95 in 2017 Congratulation set. The 2017 Silver proof set is selling for $47.95. Together, the total is only $102.9 and I gain the SAC dollar, nickel and cent. So why is the 2017 limited Silver Proof set selling for $37.05 premium ($139.95 vs. $102.9) ?
I paid for Expedited Shipping and my package arrived this morning.
W-a-a-a-y too smal for two Limited Edition silver Proof Sets and w-a-a-a-y too light.
I always login about 15 minutes before these hot products get released and put a Presidential Medal in my Shopping Cart just to get the process started.
If the process bogs down after the 9:00am PT Bell, I keep the Presidential Medal. If the process is running smoothly, I'll remove the medal.
Last Thursday I did exactly this, logged in, put a presidential medal in my shopping cart and then waited. When the bell rang, my order was placed. A Confirmation email came at 9:03am PT. I did NOT remove the Presidential Medal since it is one that I do not have.
This mornings package contained only the Presidential Medal. The packing slip did not indicate that the 2 LE Sets I have a receipt for were back ordered. Nothing.
I guess I need to call the US Mint to find out WTF is going on since I'm running under the assumption that these sets, all 50,000 of them, were at least partially ready to ship as they have been in the past.
Once the order limits were lifted, maybe the big boys got in there with their multiple thousand orders which bumped my early order into the " We'll get around to it" bin??
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
@19Lyds said:
I paid for Expedited Shipping and my package arrived this morning.
W-a-a-a-y too smal for two Limited Edition silver Proof Sets and w-a-a-a-y too light.
I always login about 15 minutes before these hot products get released and put a Presidential Medal in my Shopping Cart just to get the process started.
If the process bogs down after the 9:00am PT Bell, I keep the Presidential Medal. If the process is running smoothly, I'll remove the medal.
Last Thursday I did exactly this, logged in, put a presidential medal in my shopping cart and then waited. When the bell rang, my order was placed. A Confirmation email came at 9:03am PT. I did NOT remove the Presidential Medal since it is one that I do not have.
This mornings package contained only the Presidential Medal. The packing slip did not indicate that the 2 LE Sets I have a receipt for were back ordered. Nothing.
I guess I need to call the US Mint to find out WTF is going on since I'm running under the assumption that these sets, all 50,000 of them, were at least partially ready to ship as they have been in the past.
Once the order limits were lifted, maybe the big boys got in there with their multiple thousand orders which bumped my early order into the " We'll get around to it" bin??
I called the US Mint and was told that the products were shipped in "separate packages" with the Medal on the 5th and the LE Sets on the 6th.
WTH?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Still waiting for a shipping confirmation email. My order confirmation stated shipping method would be Fed Ex Smart Post.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@Rarity said:
I bought 2 sets but I think the $139.95 price per set is a rip off.
The 2017-S proof ASE was priced at $54.95 in 2017 Congratulation set. The 2017 Silver proof set is selling for $47.95. Together, the total is only $102.9 and I gain the SAC dollar, nickel and cent. So why is the 2017 limited Silver Proof set selling for $37.05 premium ($139.95 vs. $102.9) ?
Mint prices products to take away some of the flipper premium .. means everyone pays more
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@BigA said:
Then you should have two tracking numbers
I should add mine "shipped" three days ago but still in "label created" status
Only 1 Tracking Number.
BUT, two charges to my card.
I do not understand why they would do it this way.
They did the same thing to me with a different order, back when they were offering free shipping with a silver proof set. Ordered a proof/silver proof and an Ellis Island puck (which was just released). Only one tracking number, but there were actually two different packages, and only one charge on my CC. What clued me in was the two packages shown in the FedEx package manager coming from the mint.
In my case, the proof sets came in one package and the Ellis Island puck came in another. My guess is they had the pucks already packaged and ready to go, so the proof sets went in a different package. The same was probably true for the LESP sets.
@claychaser said:
It seems even Amazon uses excess packaging. I ordered some specific sized rubber bands, and they came in a box packed with bubble pack!
On the other hand, I ordered an 8TB hard disk last week. Came on Sunday (most of my Amazon deliveries seem to happen on a Sunday), in a box with a single air bag, with the disk rattling around inside the box...
@BigA said:
Then you should have two tracking numbers
I should add mine "shipped" three days ago but still in "label created" status
Only 1 Tracking Number.
BUT, two charges to my card.
I do not understand why they would do it this way.
I only see one charge to the card.
2 charges. One for $24.90 and one for $279.90
1 for $6.95 coin and $17.95 shipping charges
1 for $279.90 for the LE sets
That's just an enumerated bill not two separate charges. It's no different than your grocery bill with 37 items listed and one charge at the end. Do you consider your grocery bill to be "37 charges"?
Comments
Okay, here's what happened. A 2012-S proof Silver Eagle was part of the two-coin San Francisco 75th Anniversary Set. The Mint didn't say that the coin would be exclusive to that set, but many collectors assumed that this was the case, and they were very upset when the Mint later also included the coin in that year's Coin and Currency Set. No mintage limits were violated. This year the Mint announced well in advance that the 2017-S proof Silver Eagle would be included in both the Congratulations Set and the Limited Edition Silver Proof Set. Again, no mintage limits have been violated.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
They are LIMITS for a reason
You're the one who came up with the accusation, please research and provide details.
Except for the snafu with the BBHOF gold, it hasn't happened.
This isn't exactly true.
It is for commems, but those coins and medals that just need TreasSec permission (the American Liberty coins and medals, the centennial gold of last year, etc.) are self limiting mintages set by the Mint. The law allows this sort of numismatic pursuit, but has no strict mintage mandate, other than not interfering with normal production.
Coin sets like the LESP, the 2017 EU, the Congrats/Birth/whatever sets, etc, are also allowed by law, but no mintages product limits are mandated.
However, other than the BBHOF gold coin problem, sales never exceed mintage or product limits.
Edit: Incorrectly used "mintage" instead of "product".
They were there for a second. Just missed them. I had a couple in the bag, but someone else got them oh welll
I remember the ASE thing but I believe the product limit was firm but under "mintage limit" it said "none" for the, I believe "S", and it appeared later in the year...but it was not a mintage limit increase but a new product with the same coin previously in a no mintage limit issue...
29 sets were available at 7:30 this morning, I was able to get a few.
At least this set has the normal downward progression of 0730 availability....
How long till these are available on eBay for below issue price? Days, weeks, months, never? I say a month or so.....
Well the Congrats set with just the S was released over 6 months ago and that OGP set sells for $125-140 so I can't see this set with the extra coins selling for less than $140
My guess...don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen any time soon.
This set is a sellout .. with so few available in A.m.
I do remember a US Mint product going off sale becasue of rising metal prices and going back on sale after a period of time... I think it was the platinum sets but no time do I remember the Mint exceeding the mintage set by congress..
That was the 2008 plats that they pulled for a while. the price of plat dropped and no one was buying at the mint price. They came back late in the year priced lower than original mint pricing
Martin
Well I just checked my Pay Pay account and I am into them for about 5K so forgot about all the spending I did on the Palladium debacle so I have no money to throw away toward grading so for now just concentrate on paying off my debt. I guess I got carried away in all the excitement!
13 sets were available at 7:30 this morning.
I bought 2 sets but I think the $139.95 price per set is a rip off.
The 2017-S proof ASE was priced at $54.95 in 2017 Congratulation set. The 2017 Silver proof set is selling for $47.95. Together, the total is only $102.9 and I gain the SAC dollar, nickel and cent. So why is the 2017 limited Silver Proof set selling for $37.05 premium ($139.95 vs. $102.9) ?
I paid for Expedited Shipping and my package arrived this morning.
W-a-a-a-y too smal for two Limited Edition silver Proof Sets and w-a-a-a-y too light.
I always login about 15 minutes before these hot products get released and put a Presidential Medal in my Shopping Cart just to get the process started.
If the process bogs down after the 9:00am PT Bell, I keep the Presidential Medal. If the process is running smoothly, I'll remove the medal.
Last Thursday I did exactly this, logged in, put a presidential medal in my shopping cart and then waited. When the bell rang, my order was placed. A Confirmation email came at 9:03am PT. I did NOT remove the Presidential Medal since it is one that I do not have.
This mornings package contained only the Presidential Medal. The packing slip did not indicate that the 2 LE Sets I have a receipt for were back ordered. Nothing.
I guess I need to call the US Mint to find out WTF is going on since I'm running under the assumption that these sets, all 50,000 of them, were at least partially ready to ship as they have been in the past.
Once the order limits were lifted, maybe the big boys got in there with their multiple thousand orders which bumped my early order into the " We'll get around to it" bin??
The name is LEE!
got an email this morning...mine are shipped.
I called the US Mint and was told that the products were shipped in "separate packages" with the Medal on the 5th and the LE Sets on the 6th.
WTH?
The name is LEE!
Then you should have two tracking numbers
I should add mine "shipped" three days ago but still in "label created" status
Still waiting for a shipping confirmation email. My order confirmation stated shipping method would be Fed Ex Smart Post.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It seems even Amazon uses excess packaging. I ordered some specific sized rubber bands, and they came in a box packed with bubble pack!
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
I got the same email. But I doubt mine has actually shipped... FedEx says "Label created", with anticipated ship date today.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
Don't want those rubber bands breaking early. If you order bubble wrap, they pack them in rubber bands!
Mint prices products to take away some of the flipper premium .. means everyone pays more
Same happened with me, ordered 2 EU sets, shipped them separately,
Go figure...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Yup...posted this a few posts ago...
Just got the email my sets have shipped.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
5> @BigA said:
Same here, received shipped email Friday and tracking states label created.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Ditto. Probably because of the weekend and today a postal holiday. Expecting actual travel progress tomorrow.
Only 1 Tracking Number.
BUT, two charges to my card.
I do not understand why they would do it this way.
The name is LEE!
Only reason I could think of off hand is maybe the sets are at a different location or waiting on the shipment from the mint.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
They did the same thing to me with a different order, back when they were offering free shipping with a silver proof set. Ordered a proof/silver proof and an Ellis Island puck (which was just released). Only one tracking number, but there were actually two different packages, and only one charge on my CC. What clued me in was the two packages shown in the FedEx package manager coming from the mint.
In my case, the proof sets came in one package and the Ellis Island puck came in another. My guess is they had the pucks already packaged and ready to go, so the proof sets went in a different package. The same was probably true for the LESP sets.
On the other hand, I ordered an 8TB hard disk last week. Came on Sunday (most of my Amazon deliveries seem to happen on a Sunday), in a box with a single air bag, with the disk rattling around inside the box...
Just call them. Or use their chat support button. Super nice people to deal with.
I just ordered one , I have no idea why or how many are available.
USM05355XXX
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan
They were available at 5am edt today? I see the 2016 being available but not the 2017
"
Are u sure it was the 2017 & not the 2016? Suggest you double check your order details.
There were some available this am...maybe 10. I saw 6 left after ordering two
I only see one charge to the card.
New article in Coin Update
news.coinupdate.com/with-order-limit-removed-2017-limited-edition-silver-proof-set-achieves-sellout/
2 charges. One for $24.90 and one for $279.90
1 for $6.95 coin and $17.95 shipping charges
1 for $279.90 for the LE sets
Real close!
2017 LIMITED EDITION SILVER PROOF SET: 49,978
2017 CONGRATULATIONS SET: 74,898
Total: 124,876
That's just an enumerated bill not two separate charges. It's no different than your grocery bill with 37 items listed and one charge at the end. Do you consider your grocery bill to be "37 charges"?
Lee,
Did you receive a e-mail confirmation when the order shipped?
When this happened to me there were 2 tracking numbers in the e-mail.
Edit
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
2 tracking # 's for my purchase....1) fedex dumb postl & 2) USPS ... scheduled for delivery on Friday.
I just got my two almost opened it up by accident not realizing what was in the box. Holding off opening it up. Still at work