Some people must see the designation on the label to believe it. Few people seemingly look at the coin itself anymore.
Then "some people" aren't really top level variety collectors if they need that kind of help. I don't know of a single variety collector that doesn't look at the coin first, and label/grade as secondary. If our hobby has evolved into collecting varieties by label only where the owner can't even tell an obvious error, heaven help us all.
Some people must see the designation on the label to believe it. Few people seemingly look at the coin itself anymore.
Then "some people" aren't really top level variety collectors if they need that kind of help. I don't know of a single variety collector that doesn't look at the coin first, and label/grade as secondary. If our hobby has evolved into collecting varieties by label only where the owner can't even tell an obvious error, heaven help us all.
I agree. The problem is that very few would be considered as top level collectors by most. This includes many dealers. This forum (both the collectors and dealers) are not representative of the larger hobby in my opinion. That is unfortunate.
I agree. The problem is that very few would be considered as top level collectors by most. This includes many dealers. This forum (both the collectors and dealers) are not representative of the larger hobby in my opinion. That is unfortunate.
Yeah, but we're not here to hold a dealer's hand who is too lazy to learn how to attribute their own varieties. I say let them sink or swim. And to be "top level," all that I would expect is that they can properly grade and attribute on their own. If a dealer can't do that, that's their problem. Working 8 hrs per day, 300+ days per year, gives any dealer plenty of time to research and get smart. Would I buy from GSC? I haven't yet. Not likely it will change.
@mannie gray said:
The rims on above coin look like proof rims.
I think I see diagnostic die scrs. in front of nose though can't see reverse markers.
Here's an image Robec posted of the die scratches by the nose, their not the same as the coin I posted and pay close attention to the lips, their not the same either .
If you straighten the second image I posted, scratches don't match what so ever ...
Rick, you should start a new thread on this coin. No need to make this thread more confusing. From all the images posted over there, the coin you posted has a great chance of being called a proof.
Do you actually think I would of posted it here, or anywhere else, if he would of showed what Pcgs said ?
It's not his coin. The owner of the coin is pulling the strings. The owner will show it at the proper time.
@stash said:
Here's one that was posted on cointalk and he say it's a matte proof, but won't show us what Pcgs said . I say he's full of BS ..
And it looks like you are the one that was wrong. The coin came back as a proof 66 RB.
Pcgs must have a magic eraser then, for taking away hits . Nothing has been posted other then someone going into coinfacts and saying " Hey I think I've found it " ....
Man, between the hoard that was offered for sale a couple years back and others popping up unattributed online, I would not want to be in 5 figures for a 1909 vdb proof.
I had always wanted one, but the hoard especially was a wake up call .
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Well done Robec! You've made the case quite convincingly.
1909 VDB PR66RB! PCGS #3301.82482206 in CoinFacts.
That would be just about any collector's dream come true. With so few of these ever released to collectors, the odds of this discovery happening are understandably miniscule. It is like a lottery win! How else could you characterize it?
This is a great example of arming yourself with knowledge so that when that rare opportunity presents itself, you will recognize it. WELL DONE! CONGRATULATIONS! I'm happy for both of the people who were involved in this discovery.
I read they are planning to put the coin up for auction in March. It will be all profit for them. Two lucky guys and a great catch!!
CASE COMPLETELY CLOSED. It has the coin facts picture I found RIGHT ON THE ARTICLE!! LOL!
It even says, "Images courtesy of PCGS CoinFacts" right below the picture that I originally cited!
There are 2 different images there. The first one shows the obverse from CoinFacts. There are 2 little buttons below the picture. If you hit the one to the right, it shows the actual CoinFacts image obverse and reverse. It is the exact picture we've been comparing to the uncertified coin pictures on this and the site over at Coin Talk.
Rick's incident may also be a case by case interpretation. I have been warned off of mis-attributed "rare" copper varieties in incorrect slabs several times over the years. If the dealers were liable for selling them, I don't think they knew it.
"@BLee23 said:
If you do some digging, you will find that this is far from the first very nice pick from GSC. I believe one of our fellow forum members cherried two PR Buffalo Nickels being sold as business strikes on two separate occasions.”
It was me that cherrypicked the two proof buffs @Blee23 mentioned above. First was a 1936 satin finish proof which
turned into a pcgs pr64 and the second a 1913 type one that went pr64 also. both purchased as business strikes.
And the following to coins from them are on the way to pcgs for grading.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
@BUFFNIXX said:
I am 99 % certain the 1915 and 1916 buffs shown above are matte proofs.
Congrats, those are some super nice looking coins! I certainly would have bid on them had I seen them but I don't look through their stuff all that often.
Rare coins don't just materialize; but walk in from careless sellers that get sold as a group to the dealers who may or may not do their due diligence. At some point a collector bought it from a dealer knowing what what it was.
@logger7 said:
Rare coins don't just materialize; but walk in from careless sellers that get sold as a group to the dealers who may or may not do their due diligence. At some point a collector bought it from a dealer knowing what what it was.
Read the post and you will see that the coin was made after it was purchased from Great Southern and that PCGS has repudiated the coin after the experts here determined it was not a proof.
I was commenting on the Buffalo nickel matte proofs that were cherry picked at GS, not the controversial cent.
right now there are 1,418 coins for sale by GSC now. wonder how many employees they have to process all these coins.
and there photographs for the most part are great.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Comments
Then "some people" aren't really top level variety collectors if they need that kind of help. I don't know of a single variety collector that doesn't look at the coin first, and label/grade as secondary. If our hobby has evolved into collecting varieties by label only where the owner can't even tell an obvious error, heaven help us all.
I agree. The problem is that very few would be considered as top level collectors by most. This includes many dealers. This forum (both the collectors and dealers) are not representative of the larger hobby in my opinion. That is unfortunate.
Yeah, but we're not here to hold a dealer's hand who is too lazy to learn how to attribute their own varieties. I say let them sink or swim. And to be "top level," all that I would expect is that they can properly grade and attribute on their own. If a dealer can't do that, that's their problem. Working 8 hrs per day, 300+ days per year, gives any dealer plenty of time to research and get smart. Would I buy from GSC? I haven't yet. Not likely it will change.
And it looks like you are the one that was wrong. The coin came back as a proof 66 RB.
Pcgs must have a magic eraser then, for taking away hits . Nothing has been posted other then someone going into coinfacts and saying " Hey I think I've found it " ....
Man, between the hoard that was offered for sale a couple years back and others popping up unattributed online, I would not want to be in 5 figures for a 1909 vdb proof.
I had always wanted one, but the hoard especially was a wake up call .
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Do some research before you spread false information ..
http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2017/02/common-1909-vdb-lincoln-cent-turns-out-to-be-rare-matte-proof.all.html
If you can't see all the markers that match, you are blind. Open your mind.
- Bob -
"Central Valley" Roosevelts
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Well done Robec! You've made the case quite convincingly.
1909 VDB PR66RB! PCGS #3301.82482206 in CoinFacts.
That would be just about any collector's dream come true. With so few of these ever released to collectors, the odds of this discovery happening are understandably miniscule. It is like a lottery win! How else could you characterize it?
This is a great example of arming yourself with knowledge so that when that rare opportunity presents itself, you will recognize it. WELL DONE! CONGRATULATIONS! I'm happy for both of the people who were involved in this discovery.
I read they are planning to put the coin up for auction in March. It will be all profit for them. Two lucky guys and a great catch!!
CASE COMPLETELY CLOSED. It has the coin facts picture I found RIGHT ON THE ARTICLE!! LOL!
It even says, "Images courtesy of PCGS CoinFacts" right below the picture that I originally cited!
There are 2 different images there. The first one shows the obverse from CoinFacts. There are 2 little buttons below the picture. If you hit the one to the right, it shows the actual CoinFacts image obverse and reverse. It is the exact picture we've been comparing to the uncertified coin pictures on this and the site over at Coin Talk.
"We're sorry. That PCGS Cert Number was not found in our database. Please double check the number and try again."
The OP didn't do the coin owner any favors starting this thread.
The owner shot himself in the foot by posting and boasting on the other forum.
PCGS didn't distinguish itself either.
All of the above made a BIG MISTAKE.
This entire episode is bad for the collectors, investors, dealers and TPGs.
Rick's incident may also be a case by case interpretation. I have been warned off of mis-attributed "rare" copper varieties in incorrect slabs several times over the years. If the dealers were liable for selling them, I don't think they knew it.
I would dip that copper just a bit and send it back for the pr67 grade.
What would you dip it with so it did not turn pumpkin orange?
I love pumpkin orange. That's a great look for copper. It is the pink appearance that is too upsetting to even talk about.
As far as buying coins from GSC here are two of my recent buffalo nickel purchases from them.
both were graded gem brilliant uncirculated.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
wow
I am 99 percent sure they are both matte proofs. On the way in for grading.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
"@BLee23 said:
If you do some digging, you will find that this is far from the first very nice pick from GSC. I believe one of our fellow forum members cherried two PR Buffalo Nickels being sold as business strikes on two separate occasions.”
It was me that cherrypicked the two proof buffs @Blee23 mentioned above. First was a 1936 satin finish proof which
turned into a pcgs pr64 and the second a 1913 type one that went pr64 also. both purchased as business strikes.
And the following to coins from them are on the way to pcgs for grading.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I am 99 % certain the 1915 and 1916 buffs shown above are matte proofs.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Congrats, those are some super nice looking coins! I certainly would have bid on them had I seen them but I don't look through their stuff all that often.
Collector, occasional seller
Looks like a good shot, but those GSC buffs do not exactly fly under the radar.
Rare coins don't just materialize; but walk in from careless sellers that get sold as a group to the dealers who may or may not do their due diligence. At some point a collector bought it from a dealer knowing what what it was.
I was commenting on the Buffalo nickel matte proofs that were cherry picked at GS, not the controversial cent.
Buffnix looking to go 4 for 4. Maybe this thread title should be ammended to:
"And people say you shouldn't buy anything but misattributed matte proof buffs from GSC."
the 1915 pictured above is matte proof-64 and
the 1916 pictured above is matte proof-65
just got the grades from pcgs yesterday.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
As I said-it's always nice to see these crooks ripped.
Wow! Interesting thread! Beside the controversy I have had good luck with Great Southern
right now there are 1,418 coins for sale by GSC now. wonder how many employees they have to process all these coins.
and there photographs for the most part are great.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Here is the picture of the 1913 buff I got from them in 2014
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
And here is the picture of the 1936 buff I got from the also in 2014.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Note to self. Buy all Buff nickels from GSC. Nice buys @BUFFNIXX
They love free advertising. This beats another CAC thread , too. No offense intended.