Such is the case in most collectibles. The new guy shows up waiving his money and the vultures circle touting their typical phrases "very few known", "try and find another", "upgrade potential", etc..
His "Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1964)" went from 49.15% completion to 56.80%, and it is now private.
His "Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes and Proof (1792-1964)" went from 40.17% completion to 47.16% completion and is still public.
@breakdown said:
Having put together full sets of business strike Buffalos and Walkers that took me over ten years, I cannot imagine the scope of such a project. I give the collector credit for embarking on it -- for the coins that are of interest to me, he had a lot of second tier stuff but it looks like he has accumulated some very nice gold coins among others.
I put together a Buffalo set as well as Mercury Dimes. I would imagine a task like this will involve buying complete sets for a vast majority of the coins. I was on a very limited budget but coins like the 5C three leg Buffalo were $50 full horn. Anyone trying this will have many dealers looking for him.> @tradedollarnut said:
Eliasberg had a lot of proofs in place of business strikes. It was just the way coins were collected then. Apples to oranges
He also was collecting at a time when he was one of a few wealthy people that could shell out that much money.
@tradedollarnut said:
People who think it just takes money really have no clue. I waited 15 years to acquire two coins that I was willing to overpay for from day one...
It won't take you 15 years to acquire any circulation strike I can think of. If you have the money the dealers have the time and connections. If you were looking by yourself that is one thing but tell me one coin outside of the $20 1849 and 33D you cannot find now without Heritage and the major broker/dealers. Don't collect them but I would be interested in the dates you had trouble with. I pick up a O mint Double Eagle and the 54 and 56 O have pops in all grades of 20*30 each and I have seen several sold in the last three years. All it takes is money. These are the two I will never own but could if my wife or I was born into lots of money. I doubt the two trade dollars could be that hard with all the sources available to the collector now.
@tradedollarnut said:
People who think it just takes money really have no clue. I waited 15 years to acquire two coins that I was willing to overpay for from day one...
It won't take you 15 years to acquire any circulation strike I can think of. If you have the money the dealers have the time and connections. If you were looking by yourself that is one thing but tell me one coin outside of the $20 1849 and 33D you cannot find now without Heritage and the major broker/dealers. Don't collect them but I would be interested in the dates you had trouble with. I pick up a O mint Double Eagle and the 54 and 56 O have pops in all grades of 20*30 each and I have seen several sold in the last three years. All it takes is money. These are the two I will never own but could if my wife or I was born into lots of money. I doubt the two trade dollars could be that hard with all the sources available to the collector now.
It took Bruce 15 years to acquire the 2 coins. You must not have seen the long thread about these two upgrades to his Seated Dollar set. If you want a specific coin, you must wait for it to be offered in order to acquire it.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
D.L. Hansen has a slightly easier goal in terms of quality - he just wants the average condition to be higher than Eliasberg's.
And he left a little wiggle room on 100% completion: About This Set: The Eliasburg Challenge. The goal is to build as complete a set as is possible in a better grade than the legendary Eliasberg. A worthy challenge Let the work begin!!!
I see Mr. Hansen , much like Eliasberg, to be not so much a collector of coins as he is a collector of coin collections. He provides liquidity for some great collectors who would like to move on but worry how they might fare in the auction business. If you have a top pop collection you might like to sell, you might send him an inquiry.
[Edit:] IF Laura is advising him, I doubt he is buying reckless, at least when he consults with her.
But you were there to witness at the Goldberg auction, so you do have some evidence for your observations.
@coincommando said:
whoa someone on here jonesing for the guy ? this is not bst. besides the guy is buying reckless. anyone who follows what is happening knows that. he is only good for the coin docs right now.
Hansen just published his set of IHC proofs and he is #3 behind my set which is #2. He will easily surpass mine with addition of one coin. The #1 set is reds and cameos. His like mine is a toned collection with an average grade of over 66.7. Mine is "only 65.96" which is difficult with only BN and RB coins. I am pretty sure that he bought them pretty much intact because i know who used to own most of the coins in his set. He is definitely NOT buying low end and doctored coins. He is buying very high end collections. FWIW.
It took Bruce 15 years to acquire the 2 coins. You must not have seen the long thread about these two upgrades to his Seated Dollar set. If you want a specific coin, you must wait for it to be offered in order to acquire it.
Bruce also had 2 perfectly fine examples in his set that still gave him finest known set status by a huge margin. It's not a requirement to own the finest known example of every date in a set. That might be Bruce's ultimate goal, but it was not Eliasberg's goal, and it won't be this new guy either. Bruce also added a number of coins at one time by buying complete sets as competitors wilted along the way. You can't get there without some of that.
If Legend is the advisor, everything will be PCGS CAC, without exception....which eliminates 80% of the market right there. The key will be buying out a lot of complete sets where the hard work was already done.
D.L. Hansen has a slightly easier goal in terms of quality - he just wants the average condition to be higher than Eliasberg's.
And he left a little wiggle room on 100% completion: About This Set: The Eliasburg Challenge. The goal is to build as complete a set as is possible in a better grade than the legendary Eliasberg. A worthy challenge Let the work begin!!!
What was done once can be done again. A very difficult task. I guess that if a person has enough money to pry out all the unique or near unique coins it can be done. I would like to see it even though I don't think it will happen. There could be some collectors that will not sell at any price. Then again, buying all the coins or buying anything for that matter, just because you have the money to so does not seem like that much of challenge. Is that really collecting or just trying to be someone important? Eliasberg was a real coin collector and will always be respected as such.
Well he probably has someone giving him guidance or contacts.
He probably did not email all the owners of the top registry sets and asked how much do you want.
The $20 gold and DMPL Morgans were purchased as complete sets. It sounds like other sets might have made up the bulk of the coins he has listed so far.
@tradedollarnut said:
Just to clear things up, laura is not his dealer. He is indeed out there on his own
Thanks for checking.
Apparently I misread her Market Report: legendnumismatics.com/market-reports/pre-super-bowl-week/
She was first describing their new customers, but then she was describing "millenial" collectors in general when she mentioned him.
@tradedollarnut said:
Just to clear things up, laura is not his dealer. He is indeed out there on his own
Laura may not be his "dealer", but I would be very suprised if he does not have coins in his sets that he bought from Legend. But to accomplish his goal, he has to buy collection rather than coins.
He is about to displace me as #2 on my registry collection of IHC proofs. Like mine, his set is predominately colored IHC proofs and all of very high grade.
For those of you that might be interested.
OINK
So this is the guy that was at the ANA Anaheim and is trying to be the next Eliasberg?
I never wanted to be the next Eliasberg. I love collecting coins but when artwork got temporarily cheap I jumped at the chance for a few museum famous paintings.
neat idea to be louie jr, only problem he isn't buying really nice coins to do so. like louie on some he did, on others what his hanger on's are selling him is a crime
people buy paints for $150 million. building an eliasberg like collection won't even cost that
I admire Eliasberg's eye for quality. It seems like every coin had the right look, even the vast number of lesser value foreign coins in his collection. Even if he piggybacked on the efforts of other collectors by buying their collections, at least he had an eye for buying amazing collections. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that he "got it."
@Washingtoniana said:
I admire Eliasberg's eye for quality. It seems like every coin had the right look, even the vast number of lesser value foreign coins in his collection. Even if he piggybacked on the efforts of other collectors by buying their collections, at least he had an eye for buying amazing collections. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that he "got it."
If you exclude the Clapp coins, the Eliasberg does not look like anything special in terms of overall quality.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@Washingtoniana said:
I admire Eliasberg's eye for quality. It seems like every coin had the right look, even the vast number of lesser value foreign coins in his collection. Even if he piggybacked on the efforts of other collectors by buying their collections, at least he had an eye for buying amazing collections. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that he "got it."
If you exclude the Clapp coins, the Eliasberg does not look like anything special in terms of overall quality.
Maybe not quality, but he did have a 1933 double eagle!
Uh, that would be a pretty big "if". Those Clapp coins, or at least many of them were outrageous original bits from the mint that at least IMHO were hand selected essentially at time of manufacture. And that was a very large number of coins.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@Washingtoniana said:
I admire Eliasberg's eye for quality. It seems like every coin had the right look, even the vast number of lesser value foreign coins in his collection. Even if he piggybacked on the efforts of other collectors by buying their collections, at least he had an eye for buying amazing collections. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that he "got it."
If you exclude the Clapp coins, the Eliasberg does not look like anything special in terms of overall quality.
Interesting, I never paid attention to the distinction between Clapp-Eliasberg and straight Eliasberg coins. This forum is great! Thanks.
@ManifestDestiny said:
I get what Elisabeth did and I respect it for the great accomplishment it was...but I just don't see the appeal to doing it today. So many coins and so many of them are just like the other.
Personally I think it would be more interesting if someone did a true type set with every design but every coin was a key date or rarity in high grade.
Not sure, but I believe the antediluvian Oakland, CA coin dealer, Leo Young did just that with his type set.
Back in the 1950s or so.
I never saw it but when I started coins in the 70s, Leo was in the shop sometimes. The guy I "learned" coins from related the tale.
@Bob1951 said:
What was done once can be done again. A very difficult task. I guess that if a person has enough money to pry out all the unique or near unique coins it can be done. I would like to see it even though I don't think it will happen. There could be some collectors that will not sell at any price. Then again, buying all the coins or buying anything for that matter, just because you have the money to so does not seem like that much of challenge. Is that really collecting or just trying to be someone important? Eliasberg was a real coin collector and will always be respected as such.
With the exception of perhaps the dozen rarest coins, the challenge will be in buying the right coins at the right price. Same as it would be in collecting anything else.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
He only owned the double eagle for a short time before returning it to the federal government. You can read about it in the book "Double Eagle". I really enjoyed that book!!!
Maybe not quality, but he did have a 1933 double eagle!
@Bob1951 said:
What was done once can be done again. A very difficult task. I guess that if a person has enough money to pry out all the unique or near unique coins it can be done. I would like to see it even though I don't think it will happen. There could be some collectors that will not sell at any price. Then again, buying all the coins or buying anything for that matter, just because you have the money to so does not seem like that much of challenge. Is that really collecting or just trying to be someone important? Eliasberg was a real coin collector and will always be respected as such.
With the exception of perhaps the dozen rarest coins, the challenge will be in buying the right coins at the right price. Same as it would be in collecting anything else.
So for $80M you can compromise or $95M you can do it right...
@Washingtoniana said:
I admire Eliasberg's eye for quality. It seems like every coin had the right look, even the vast number of lesser value foreign coins in his collection. Even if he piggybacked on the efforts of other collectors by buying their collections, at least he had an eye for buying amazing collections. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that he "got it."
If you exclude the Clapp coins, the Eliasberg does not look like anything special in terms of overall quality.
And a lot of those Clapp coins were picked right from the USMint or possibly the local bank. At the time, I suspect many of his peers might have thought of that task as fruitless with little chance of long term upside/success. I mean who cares about picking out a near perfect (MS68) common date 1900-0 quarter at time of issue for 25c? (later realizing $14,300). It was quite successful though because almost no one else was doing it.
@Bob1951 said:
What was done once can be done again. A very difficult task. I guess that if a person has enough money to pry out all the unique or near unique coins it can be done. I would like to see it even though I don't think it will happen. There could be some collectors that will not sell at any price. Then again, buying all the coins or buying anything for that matter, just because you have the money to so does not seem like that much of challenge. Is that really collecting or just trying to be someone important? Eliasberg was a real coin collector and will always be respected as such.
With the exception of perhaps the dozen rarest coins, the challenge will be in buying the right coins at the right price. Same as it would be in collecting anything else.
So for $80M you can compromise or $95M you can do it right...
Doing it right would also take a lot longer.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@Bob1951 said:
What was done once can be done again. A very difficult task. I guess that if a person has enough money to pry out all the unique or near unique coins it can be done. I would like to see it even though I don't think it will happen. There could be some collectors that will not sell at any price. Then again, buying all the coins or buying anything for that matter, just because you have the money to so does not seem like that much of challenge. Is that really collecting or just trying to be someone important? Eliasberg was a real coin collector and will always be respected as such.
With the exception of perhaps the dozen rarest coins, the challenge will be in buying the right coins at the right price. Same as it would be in collecting anything else.
So for $80M you can compromise or $95M you can do it right...
Doing it right would also take a lot longer.
My motto is There is never time to do it right, but always time to do it over
something to think about: for all the money he might have to spend, it will total less then one big painting. this project wouldn't even rank in the top 10 in the art world!
@Washingtoniana said:
I admire Eliasberg's eye for quality. It seems like every coin had the right look, even the vast number of lesser value foreign coins in his collection. Even if he piggybacked on the efforts of other collectors by buying their collections, at least he had an eye for buying amazing collections. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that he "got it."
If you exclude the Clapp coins, the Eliasberg does not look like anything special in terms of overall quality.
And a lot of those Clapp coins were picked right from the USMint or possibly the local bank. At the time, I suspect many of his peers might have thought of that task as fruitless with little chance of long term upside/success. I mean who cares about picking out a near perfect (MS68) common date 1900-0 quarter at time of issue for 25c? (later realizing $14,300). It was quite successful though because almost no one else was doing it.
And that is only part of the story of Clapp's foresight. He was one of the foremost numismatists of his time, a pioneer in in gold coinage die varieties. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that Clapp got it, as MrEureka called out. Study the sales of the Eliasberg dupes (inc. H.R Lee) and it supports that view.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
TDN: Anyone remember the Richmond Collection? It just doesn't get much attention but it was the last attempt to be Eliasberg.
Yes, very well, I attended all three sales and I wrote several articles about it for Numismatic News newspaper. The Richmond Collector was John Feigenbaum's client. It is one of the top 25 collections of classic U.S. coins of all time!
Although quality was not a priority, there were many high quality coins in the Richmond Collection. The finest known 1894-S dime comes to mind. There were numerous gem quality Liberty Seated coins, including quite a few from the 1840s!
The Richmond Collector lost interest at some point, after years of collecting. Except for a 1795-'9 Leaves,' which is not that difficult to obtain, his set of Eagles was complete 'by date' (and varieties collected as if they are distinct dates) from 1795 to 1933. As TDN knows, he had an 1870-S silver dollar along with both 1884 and 1885 Trade Dollars.
Comments
Surprising he is from Utah. The majority of people in Utah don't give a shit about history, unless it's about the Mormon church.
Such is the case in most collectibles. The new guy shows up waiving his money and the vultures circle touting their typical phrases "very few known", "try and find another", "upgrade potential", etc..
His "Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1964)" went from 49.15% completion to 56.80%, and it is now private.
His "Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes and Proof (1792-1964)" went from 40.17% completion to 47.16% completion and is still public.
I put together a Buffalo set as well as Mercury Dimes. I would imagine a task like this will involve buying complete sets for a vast majority of the coins. I was on a very limited budget but coins like the 5C three leg Buffalo were $50 full horn. Anyone trying this will have many dealers looking for him.> @tradedollarnut said:
He also was collecting at a time when he was one of a few wealthy people that could shell out that much money.
It won't take you 15 years to acquire any circulation strike I can think of. If you have the money the dealers have the time and connections. If you were looking by yourself that is one thing but tell me one coin outside of the $20 1849 and 33D you cannot find now without Heritage and the major broker/dealers. Don't collect them but I would be interested in the dates you had trouble with. I pick up a O mint Double Eagle and the 54 and 56 O have pops in all grades of 20*30 each and I have seen several sold in the last three years. All it takes is money. These are the two I will never own but could if my wife or I was born into lots of money. I doubt the two trade dollars could be that hard with all the sources available to the collector now.
Kind of fun to watch the set grow. it is like taking part of the process from a distance.
It took Bruce 15 years to acquire the 2 coins. You must not have seen the long thread about these two upgrades to his Seated Dollar set. If you want a specific coin, you must wait for it to be offered in order to acquire it.
They weren't trade dollars, they were seated.
And he was waiting for these 2 finest known specimens as upgrades.
Here's the thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/975272/after-nearly-15-years-of-dreaming/p1
D.L. Hansen has a slightly easier goal in terms of quality - he just wants the average condition to be higher than Eliasberg's.
And he left a little wiggle room on 100% completion:
About This Set: The Eliasburg Challenge. The goal is to build as complete a set as is possible in a better grade than the legendary Eliasberg. A worthy challenge Let the work begin!!!
I see Mr. Hansen , much like Eliasberg, to be not so much a collector of coins as he is a collector of coin collections. He provides liquidity for some great collectors who would like to move on but worry how they might fare in the auction business. If you have a top pop collection you might like to sell, you might send him an inquiry.
[Edit:] IF Laura is advising him, I doubt he is buying reckless, at least when he consults with her.
But you were there to witness at the Goldberg auction, so you do have some evidence for your observations.
But see below; Laura is not his dealer.
Hansen just published his set of IHC proofs and he is #3 behind my set which is #2. He will easily surpass mine with addition of one coin. The #1 set is reds and cameos. His like mine is a toned collection with an average grade of over 66.7. Mine is "only 65.96" which is difficult with only BN and RB coins. I am pretty sure that he bought them pretty much intact because i know who used to own most of the coins in his set. He is definitely NOT buying low end and doctored coins. He is buying very high end collections. FWIW.
OINK
Bruce also had 2 perfectly fine examples in his set that still gave him finest known set status by a huge margin. It's not a requirement to own the finest known example of every date in a set. That might be Bruce's ultimate goal, but it was not Eliasberg's goal, and it won't be this new guy either. Bruce also added a number of coins at one time by buying complete sets as competitors wilted along the way. You can't get there without some of that.
If Legend is the advisor, everything will be PCGS CAC, without exception....which eliminates 80% of the market right there. The key will be buying out a lot of complete sets where the hard work was already done.
Step one of set, learn how to spell Eliasberg
Latin American Collection
To misquote Meatloaf, "One out of two ain't bad."
Especially if we are talking about misspelling on the internet.
I'm going to give him a run for his money
I created a new Registry set, except mine is ranked number 15. That's probably why he made his private
I do have one Eliasberg coin - an 1883 No Cents Nickel MS64.
What was done once can be done again. A very difficult task. I guess that if a person has enough money to pry out all the unique or near unique coins it can be done. I would like to see it even though I don't think it will happen. There could be some collectors that will not sell at any price. Then again, buying all the coins or buying anything for that matter, just because you have the money to so does not seem like that much of challenge. Is that really collecting or just trying to be someone important? Eliasberg was a real coin collector and will always be respected as such.
Just to clear things up, laura is not his dealer. He is indeed out there on his own
Well he probably has someone giving him guidance or contacts.
He probably did not email all the owners of the top registry sets and asked how much do you want.
The $20 gold and DMPL Morgans were purchased as complete sets. It sounds like other sets might have made up the bulk of the coins he has listed so far.
Thanks for checking.
Apparently I misread her Market Report:
legendnumismatics.com/market-reports/pre-super-bowl-week/
She was first describing their new customers, but then she was describing "millenial" collectors in general when she mentioned him.
Laura may not be his "dealer", but I would be very suprised if he does not have coins in his sets that he bought from Legend. But to accomplish his goal, he has to buy collection rather than coins.
Will be watching this one!
So this is the guy that was at the ANA Anaheim and is trying to be the next Eliasberg?
where's the gif of me and my bug eating popcorn when you need it
I never wanted to be the next Eliasberg. I love collecting coins but when artwork got temporarily cheap I jumped at the chance for a few museum famous paintings.
neat idea to be louie jr, only problem he isn't buying really nice coins to do so. like louie on some he did, on others what his hanger on's are selling him is a crime
people buy paints for $150 million. building an eliasberg like collection won't even cost that
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/976621/d-l-hansen-is-already-4-in-the-lincoln-cent-set-registry-1909-1958-and-he-is-new
That's exactly who I thought of. Been seeing the name a lot lately.
I admire Eliasberg's eye for quality. It seems like every coin had the right look, even the vast number of lesser value foreign coins in his collection. Even if he piggybacked on the efforts of other collectors by buying their collections, at least he had an eye for buying amazing collections. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that he "got it."
Why do you disagree?
If you exclude the Clapp coins, the Eliasberg does not look like anything special in terms of overall quality.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I was thinking one of his children or grandchildren would be the next Eliasberg
According to his Wikipedia page:
Maybe not quality, but he did have a 1933 double eagle!
Uh, that would be a pretty big "if". Those Clapp coins, or at least many of them were outrageous original bits from the mint that at least IMHO were hand selected essentially at time of manufacture. And that was a very large number of coins.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Interesting, I never paid attention to the distinction between Clapp-Eliasberg and straight Eliasberg coins. This forum is great! Thanks.
Not sure, but I believe the antediluvian Oakland, CA coin dealer, Leo Young did just that with his type set.
Back in the 1950s or so.
I never saw it but when I started coins in the 70s, Leo was in the shop sometimes. The guy I "learned" coins from related the tale.
With the exception of perhaps the dozen rarest coins, the challenge will be in buying the right coins at the right price. Same as it would be in collecting anything else.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
He only owned the double eagle for a short time before returning it to the federal government. You can read about it in the book "Double Eagle". I really enjoyed that book!!!
So for $80M you can compromise or $95M you can do it right...
And a lot of those Clapp coins were picked right from the USMint or possibly the local bank. At the time, I suspect many of his peers might have thought of that task as fruitless with little chance of long term upside/success. I mean who cares about picking out a near perfect (MS68) common date 1900-0 quarter at time of issue for 25c? (later realizing $14,300). It was quite successful though because almost no one else was doing it.
Doing it right would also take a lot longer.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
My motto is There is never time to do it right, but always time to do it over
something to think about: for all the money he might have to spend, it will total less then one big painting. this project wouldn't even rank in the top 10 in the art world!
Sounds like a definitive plan to loose tens of millions.
As dumping so much into this hobby at that rate it's just about buying plastic.
FWIW, I think I could spend that much money pretty quickly and reasonably well, and it would not be "just about buying plastic".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I have abstained from playing PowerBall recently, because, as I told my wife, I would spend it all on coins and have to go back to work in 6 months.
This guy is proof that my strategy is certainly plausible!
And that is only part of the story of Clapp's foresight. He was one of the foremost numismatists of his time, a pioneer in in gold coinage die varieties. I sense by looking at Eliasberg's coins that Clapp got it, as MrEureka called out. Study the sales of the Eliasberg dupes (inc. H.R Lee) and it supports that view.
TDN:
Yes, very well, I attended all three sales and I wrote several articles about it for Numismatic News newspaper. The Richmond Collector was John Feigenbaum's client. It is one of the top 25 collections of classic U.S. coins of all time!
Although quality was not a priority, there were many high quality coins in the Richmond Collection. The finest known 1894-S dime comes to mind. There were numerous gem quality Liberty Seated coins, including quite a few from the 1840s!
The Richmond Collector lost interest at some point, after years of collecting. Except for a 1795-'9 Leaves,' which is not that difficult to obtain, his set of Eagles was complete 'by date' (and varieties collected as if they are distinct dates) from 1795 to 1933. As TDN knows, he had an 1870-S silver dollar along with both 1884 and 1885 Trade Dollars.
Condition Ranking of 1894-S Dimes
I think he has a long way to go to become an Eliasberg.
I reviewed all his sets and at the moments he just seems to buy what is coming across his way, without any focus on rarity or quality.
This
Latin American Collection
No
Latin American Collection