StewartBlay: Stewart: Analyst - In what way were the Clapps competing with Virgil Brand or Colonel Green in the 1880's ?
I was referring to a substantial number of collectors, during the time period from the 1880s to the 1920s, seeking gem quality, 19th century U.S. coins. There was a great deal of competition.
Right here on pcgs.com, David Hall said, in an article about The Eliasberg Collection , The Clapp Collection had been built first by J.M. Clapp from the 1880s through his death in 1906, and then his son John H. Clapp from 1906 on.
Virgil Brand was born in 1862. It seems very likely that he was purchasing coins during the 1880s. Brand eventually had more than 250,000 numismatic items, including many duplicates of each of innumerable U.S. rarities. Saul Teichman knows many of the details. For a particular gold rarity, Brand may have had anywhere from two to twenty examples. As I said, Brand had many superb gem coins, but he was not as interested in quality as others during the same time period, especially George Earle. Certainly, Virgil Brand was competing with the Clapp Family for rare U.S. coins from the 1890s to sometime not long before his death in 1926.
Again, I did not say that Col. Green was collecting coins during the 1880s, though he probably was, without letting his mother know. His miserly mother had extremely wealthy relatives who were not cheap. E. H. R. Green may have had access to funds to buy coins during the 1880s. Why would Stewart think that this was not so? In any event, Col. E. H. R. Green was competing with John H. Clapp for quality rarities during the early 20th century, as were quite a few others. Stewart was incorrect when he said, Both Clapps were not really competing with anybody!
StewartBlay: We are in the 21st century of coin collecting.
This thread is about comparing Hansen's quest with that of Eliasberg. It is not about collecting in the 21st century. I have been staying on topic and responding to remarks that were directed at me.
StewartBlay: Unless you have participated in the Set Registry you do not understand the 21st century Coin collectors who compete and play the game.
No one has written more about PCGS registry sets than I have. Moreover, I have interviewed participants and advised them. I honestly believe that I have a substantial understanding of this game, of which I am sometimes very critical. Overall, the PCGS set registry has been beneficial in several ways.
i do have a modest library. My David Lawrence Barber Dime guide has the pictures of all the 1894-S dimes known at the time he published his guide. i think one may have surfaced since but not sure about this.The challenge is to acquire them ALL though,pay up to $10M per. Wouldn't you try to help me find one that leads to a sale to me for a cool $1M cash finder fee paid to you?
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
@PrivateRareCoinCollector: Eliasberg and Garrett were and are the two kings of coins and I see nothing today that is looking like it will change this in future.
Well, kings of different domains, Eliasberg strove for completeness while the Garretts sought coins that were rare and/or exciting in some other way. The Garretts were more interested than Eliasberg in the historical aspects of numismatic items and focused more heavily on Pre-1840 material. Unlike Eliasberg, the Garretts were very interested in pre-1793 items. In some ways, the Newman and Garrett Collections are very similar.
Mr. 1874: My David Lawrence Barber Dime guide has the pictures of all the 1894-S dimes known at the time he published his guide. i think one may have surfaced since but not sure about this?
Let us stay on topic, please. This thread is about comparing Hansen's quest with that of Eliasberg, not really about 1894-S dimes in particular. In any event, I covered all nine (9) currently known 1894-S dimes and discussed the recent history of them in detail. John Feigenbaum, son of David Lawrence, is cited therein. This article was up-to-date, as of 2013, and I hope is very clear.
As far as I know, Hansen does not have an 1894-S dime. No one should expect that he can necessarily aquire one of the best 1894-S dimes, right away. Perhaps it is more relevant to this thread that Hansen now has the Eliasberg-Pogue 1815 half eagle, a coin that I found to be really disappointing. I was one of the few who found the price realized in February 2016 to be more than fair.
So what is Hansen doing with all of his lower grades? Is he selling them back to the dealers, trading, or keeping them? He must have a couple of Million just in his lower graded coins.
Analyst - you are so anal retentive and in your own world, I don' know what else to say for you to say " Stewart, you are correct"
What type of coin collection did you complete in your life ?
Do people pay you to advise them about the Set Registry ?
Do you feel qualified to advise me ?
@Analyst said: @PrivateRareCoinCollector: Eliasberg and Garrett were and are the two kings of coins and I see nothing today that is looking like it will change this in future.
Well, kings of different domains, Eliasberg strove for completeness while the Garretts sought coins that were rare and/or exciting in some other way. The Garretts were more interested than Eliasberg in the historical aspects of numismatic items and focused more heavily on Pre-1840 material. Unlike Eliasberg, the Garretts were very interested in pre-1793 items. In some ways, the Newman and Garrett Collections are very similar.
The Garretts were also very serious collectors of world and ancient coins, so absolute completion was never a concern or a possibility.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@ColonelJessup said:
Andy,
Are any of the Garrett or Eliasberg world coins in any of your core collections?
I don't have any Garrett coins, but I do have some nice Central American Republic gold pieces from the Eliasberg Collection. All ex: Clapp, IIRC. Here are a couple of them.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I for the life of me can't figure out what the cat fight is about or who is on who's side but I just want to take the chance to say I am team ColonelJessup and I'll cut a punk
StewartBlay: Analyst - you are so anal retentive and in your own world, ...
In addition to ignoring the subject matter of this thread, Stewart is insulting me and making remarks that are not true. It is Stewart's behavior that is childlike. He very recently insulted WonderCoin on this forum, too.
StewartBlay: I don' know what else to say for you to say " Stewart, you are correct"
I have said as much in other threads. I have agreed that Stewart is a top expert in grading Indian Cents and Lincoln Cents. Nobody does it better! I was one of the few to be supportive when Stewart argued that the relatively uniform, tepid blue toning that is sometimes found on otherwise brown Proof Indian Cents and Matte Proof Lincolns is artificial and probably deliberate. I went out on a limb to support Stewart in his courageous quest to bring such AT to the attention of collectors. While Stewart walked away and stuck his head in the sand, I defended Stewart's position when his posts were attacked by other participants.,
In a very positive way, I quoted Stewart Blay in my three part series on natural toning.
I devoted a positive article to a large cent that Stewart used to own. I even included Blay in the name of this cent. I thought this was fair, as he owned it for years and there are few other collectors, if anyone, who would have appreciated this large cent as much as Stewart did:
@Crypto said:
I for the life of me can't figure out what the cat fight is about or who is on who's side but I just want to take the chance to say I am team ColonelJessup and I'll cut a punk
I think it's some kind of male appendage measuring contest
_I covered all nine (9) currently known 1894-S dimes and discussed the recent history of them in detail. _
i was under the impression there was 10 of them at least and that an 11th one surfaced several years ago. Read your article and printed it for myself but haven't read it for a few years now.If there's only 9 then i could save myself $10M.
i got the idea this thread was about accomplishments compared to Eliasberg so i thought i would offer my thoughts about what i think would be a realistic accomplishment compared to Eliasberg's.
i will opine that i don't think it will be possible for anyone,even with the deepest pockets imaginable, to match Eliasberg's accomplishment of acquiring every date and mint in every series, in this day and age. Exercise in futility.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
In my interest of collection, IHC PR cents, D. Hansen has assembled a very impressive set that is #2 in the IHC basic set Registry, surpassing my set which is now #3. Remarkably, his set is intentionally focused on toned coins and is proudly advertised as such. And in response to @cameonut2012 I have noted that his set has been upgraded on several occasions.
But his set will never be #1 because of the preferrence shown for RD and CAM coins that are considered red. But this should not detract from the quality of his set. The predominate grade of IHC PR coins is RB. Coins graded RD are very scarce, and rare if they have never been dipped. Hansen's toned IHC PR coins are more rare than RD coins. Most BN IHC PR coins do not posses natural toning.
Hansen seems to have his own taste in coins that is not dictated by industry norms. Perhaps he will be a positive influence in redefining industry norms.
Analyst - I have watched Mr. Hansen
win a 1913 Lincoln cent graded
PCGS ms 67+ red and pop 1 in auction
For $ 35,000. He bought this coin in his quest to be numero uno in the Lincoln
Cent Set Registry 1909-1958 category.
Do you think either of the Clapps,
Norweb or Colonel Green competed
In this way in the 1880's -1920's ?
OldIndianNutcase - In my humble
opinion Rear Admiral Big Moose
has the # 1 or absolutely the number 2
Set of Proof Indian cents. And I am 100%
Correct in my opinion. And it is unregistered !
@mr1874 said:
...
i will opine that i don't think it will be possible for anyone,even with the deepest pockets imaginable, to match Eliasberg's accomplishment of acquiring every date and mint in every series, in this day and age. Exercise in futility.
I think pretty much everyone agrees with this, including D.L. Hansen.
As I posted back on February 9:
D.L. Hanson's registry set description includes:
"About This Set: The Eliasburg Challenge. The goal is to build as complete a set as is possible in a better grade than the legendary Eliasberg. A worthy challenge Let the work begin!!!"
So when he said "as complete a set as possible", it is fairly clear that he is expecting to get 100%.
"About This Set: The Eliasburg Challenge. The goal is to build as complete a set as is possible in a better grade than the legendary Eliasberg. A worthy challenge Let the work begin!!!"
--> if this is true, he has to sell or replace 95% of all the coins he bought so far.
And he is starting (thanks g_d) 2 years late with that, as he would have needed Pogue to accomplish that goal. Many of the Pogue coins are just gone and wont come up for sale anytime soon. Maybe a Bass Sale could help him, if it ever happens.
@STEWARTBLAYNUMIS said:
Analyst - I have watched Mr. Hansen
win a 1913 Lincoln cent graded
PCGS ms 67+ red and pop 1 in auction
For $ 35,000. He bought this coin in his quest to be numero uno in the Lincoln
Cent Set Registry 1909-1958 category.
Do you think either of the Clapps,
Norweb or Colonel Green competed
In this way in the 1880's -1920's ?
No, but Gene Gardner did again and again
OldIndianNutcase - in my humble
opinion Rear Admiral Big Moose
has the # 1 or absolutely the number 2
Set of Proof Indian cents. And I am 100%
Correct in my opinion. And it is unregistered !
Look! A unicorn!.
Trolling itself........
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Wait a freaking second... @BigMoose is an Admiral? Jeez. i should have been kissing his butt for much longer. Wouldn't be retiring next july as a lowly commander. To my credit though, James Bond was a Commander, and he had much more fun than most Admirals do. Tom...I mean, "sir", want to come for dinner. Bring coins.
Interesting that his 1796-97 Draped Bust half dollar is only a Fine 15. I'm sure he will be upgrading that one ... not that they are common, but they are available.
coinlieutenant, the closest I came to being in the Military is when I read my father's book on the 4th Marine Division in WWII. He served in the Second World War and had the opportunity to visit some nice vacation spots like Iwo Jima! You can't believe everything the Colonel says. That being said, to anyone who has served or is serving in our Military, you have my heartfelt appreciation.
The Colonel is correct about me studying Nuclear Cardiac Physics. And it is as boring as one can imagine. But, after going through all the nuclear interactions, I might just be able to construct my own bomb to drop on the fat boy in N. Korea.
TomT-1794
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
Big Moose - You have been studying proof Indian cents for quite some time. Not to mention 1794 Large cents ! Push cardiac physics to the side
From my view you have excellent taste in fine copper ! Certainly nuclear !
BigMoose is one of my favorite people I've met via coins. He also has exquisite breath. Powerful combination
I had a dinner once with the Colonel, BigMoose and TomB. One of the highlights of my numismatic career. I shut up and took notes. They have forgot more then I knew. I think TDN was at the table across from us.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
BigMoose is one of my favorite people I've met via coins. He also has exquisite breath. Powerful combination
I had a dinner once with the Colonel, BigMoose and TomB. One of the highlights of my numismatic career. I shut up and took notes. They have forgot more then I knew. I think TDN was at the table across from us.
mark
In (Sullivan's?) bad light, your '36 Walker looks like it's missing some frost on the sun.
Was this the time @SurgeonGeneral dropped two '94's in the garlic mashed? Who knew the small one would pop! like that?
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@Justacommeman said:
BigMoose is one of my favorite people I've met via coins. He also has exquisite breath. Powerful combination
I had a dinner once with the Colonel, BigMoose and TomB. One of the highlights of my numismatic career. I shut up and took notes. They have forgot more then I knew. I think TDN was at the table across from us.
mark
In (Sullivan's?) bad light, your '36 Walker looks like it's missing some frost on the sun.
Was this the time the @SurgeonGeneral dropped two '94's in the garlic mashed? Who knew the small one would pop! like that?
Good memory sir. What I wouldn't give for a wee bit more frost
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
More to the point of this thread, and to Hansen's objective of being the next Eliasberg, I have understood that Hansen will complete this collection and then create a memorial by creating a trust that will hold those coins forever as a rembrance of him. Perhaps some of us on this thread may have an opinion as to the effect on our hobby if this might be the case?
If collecting becomes very limited because too many great coins are in the Smithsonion or private trusts, does this not limit the enthusiasm of the collector base?
@OldIndianNutKase said:
More to the point of this thread, and to Hansen's objective of being the next Eliasberg, I have understood that Hansen will complete this collection and then create a memorial by creating a trust that will hold those coins forever as a rembrance of him. Perhaps some of us on this thread may have an opinion as to the effect on our hobby if this might be the case?
If collecting becomes very limited because too many great coins are in the Smithsonion or private trusts, does this not limit the enthusiasm of the collector base?
it is and was common that great coins in great collections are gone for between 40 years (Pogue and hopefully Bass) and 100 years or more (Clapp+Eliasberg / Garett).
That also was a reason I was prepared to pay so much for certain coins of the Pogue collection as I understood it is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I actually was expecting the Pogue coins not to come up for sale during my life time.
If Hansen wants to put them into a trust and never sell them, he just will be like Bass.
As a collector I am happy about this plan, also keep in mind that the market will need some kind of replacements for Pogue.
@BigMoose said:
justacommeman, Colonel's memory is a scary thing--if we could just harness it for good instead of his usual nefarious purposes.
Bill Jones will submit to CAC before that ever happens
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@AllCoinsRule said:
Before the registry, most coins locked away would be unknown to the masses, but now they dangle in front of us. Yes, it is very sad to think that these coins may not ever be sold. I'm still annoyed I don't own that 39-d nickel he has (now a 67+fs, previously was each 66fs, 66+fs, 67fs).
Over what period of time did these upgrades (66 FS to 67+ FS) occur? Were they all from the same TPGS or was it a back-and-forth thing?
Nic, not so sure about the respect part--I have been called a Rear Admiral by Colonel Jessup and I don't think it was a compliment. If Shamhart ever gets wind of this I will never hear the end of it!
TomT-1794
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
StewartBlay: Analyst - I have watched Mr. Hansen win a 1913 Lincoln cent graded PCGS ms 67+ red and pop 1 in auction For $ 35,000. He bought this coin in his quest to be numero uno in the Lincoln Cent Set Registry 1909-1958 category.
While I do not know what Mr. Hansen is thinking, some people treat the registry set competition as a game, like playing poker or the board game Monopoly with real money! Such people are often buying the holders, not the coins. Indeed, someone who has sufficient funds could assemble a highly ranked registry set without knowing anything about coins or even ever seeing the coins that are being acquired. Louis Eliasberg had a considerable understanding of his coins and he certainly cherished them.
Dr. Duckor assembled top registry sets, too. He spent years learning how to grade coins. He was advised by David Akers. He consulted many other experts. Dr. Duckor preferred a PCGS-66 Barber coin with russet toning to a dipped-white PCGS graded MS-67 Barber coin. Dr. Duckor is a discerning numismatist who thinks carefully about the coins he acquires, and does not feel a need to have a #1 registry set.
StewartBlay: Do you think either of the Clapps, Norweb or Colonel Green competed In this way in the 1880's -1920's ?
@ColonelJessup: No, but Gene Gardner did again and again
Gene Gardner certainly did not do so. Gene had very little interest in registry sets. For a while, he participated in the registry ATS, under a code name, as a way for people to see pictures of his coins. Gene liked owning multiple examples of each coin. Indeed, if he really liked a coin, he would seek to buy it, regardless of whether he already owned an example of the same type and date. He was not all that concerned about the certified grades, which he knew might change. Without being concerned about registry sets, he formed the all-time best collection of Liberty Seated coins.
@Analyst said: StewartBlay: Do you think either of the Clapps, Norweb or Colonel Green competed In this way in the 1880's -1920's ?
@ColonelJessup: No, but Gene Gardner did again and again
Gene Gardner certainly did not do so. Gene had very little interest in registry sets. For a while, he participated in the registry ATS, under a code name, as a way for people to see pictures of his coins. Gene liked owning multiple examples of each coin. Indeed, if he really liked a coin, he would seek to buy it, regardless of whether he already owned an example of the same type and date. He was not all that concerned about the certified grades, which he knew might change. Without being concerned about registry sets, he formed the all-time best collection of Liberty Seated coins.
Perhaps I might clarify: Gene Gardener knoingly went out and paid whatever it took with out consideration of cost throughout Newman. And plenty before. He was specifically going for pop-tops and/or mega-quality coins, as well as varities . Knowing Gene personally for decades, having discussed his philosophies, habits, preferences etc,, perhaps bonded by a few of the coins I formerly owned later in his sets, specific coins he wanted from auctions and on the bourse floor, I'll take my chances on my statement, which was not qualified with as much nuance as I now will.
Gene Gardner, with great discrimination and clearly-formed intent, would knowingly pay runaway prices for coins he wanted. A very persistent pattern. Not always, but plenty often. More than once, I've sat with him and his principal advisor as
the advisor quietly exhorted him to stop bidding. Some of those whispers could be heard 5 rows away.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Comments
StewartBlay:
I was referring to a substantial number of collectors, during the time period from the 1880s to the 1920s, seeking gem quality, 19th century U.S. coins. There was a great deal of competition.
Right here on pcgs.com, David Hall said, in an article about The Eliasberg Collection ,
Virgil Brand was born in 1862. It seems very likely that he was purchasing coins during the 1880s. Brand eventually had more than 250,000 numismatic items, including many duplicates of each of innumerable U.S. rarities. Saul Teichman knows many of the details. For a particular gold rarity, Brand may have had anywhere from two to twenty examples. As I said, Brand had many superb gem coins, but he was not as interested in quality as others during the same time period, especially George Earle. Certainly, Virgil Brand was competing with the Clapp Family for rare U.S. coins from the 1890s to sometime not long before his death in 1926.
Again, I did not say that Col. Green was collecting coins during the 1880s, though he probably was, without letting his mother know. His miserly mother had extremely wealthy relatives who were not cheap. E. H. R. Green may have had access to funds to buy coins during the 1880s. Why would Stewart think that this was not so? In any event, Col. E. H. R. Green was competing with John H. Clapp for quality rarities during the early 20th century, as were quite a few others. Stewart was incorrect when he said, !
StewartBlay:
This thread is about comparing Hansen's quest with that of Eliasberg. It is not about collecting in the 21st century. I have been staying on topic and responding to remarks that were directed at me.
StewartBlay:
No one has written more about PCGS registry sets than I have. Moreover, I have interviewed participants and advised them. I honestly believe that I have a substantial understanding of this game, of which I am sometimes very critical. Overall, the PCGS set registry has been beneficial in several ways.
Showdown of Walking Liberty Half Dollar Sets
Insightful10@gmail.com
Eliasberg and Garrett were and are the two kings of coins and I see nothing today that is looking like it will change this in future.
I conclude that the Lakers, doing tragedy-as-comedy in Inglewood, are relieved that "A Night at the Opera" plays at more than one Forum.
_you got to start a library _
i do have a modest library. My David Lawrence Barber Dime guide has the pictures of all the 1894-S dimes known at the time he published his guide. i think one may have surfaced since but not sure about this.The challenge is to acquire them ALL though,pay up to $10M per. Wouldn't you try to help me find one that leads to a sale to me for a cool $1M cash finder fee paid to you?
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
@PrivateRareCoinCollector:
Well, kings of different domains, Eliasberg strove for completeness while the Garretts sought coins that were rare and/or exciting in some other way. The Garretts were more interested than Eliasberg in the historical aspects of numismatic items and focused more heavily on Pre-1840 material. Unlike Eliasberg, the Garretts were very interested in pre-1793 items. In some ways, the Newman and Garrett Collections are very similar.
Mr. 1874: My David Lawrence Barber Dime guide has the pictures of all the 1894-S dimes known at the time he published his guide. i think one may have surfaced since but not sure about this?
Let us stay on topic, please. This thread is about comparing Hansen's quest with that of Eliasberg, not really about 1894-S dimes in particular. In any event, I covered all nine (9) currently known 1894-S dimes and discussed the recent history of them in detail. John Feigenbaum, son of David Lawrence, is cited therein. This article was up-to-date, as of 2013, and I hope is very clear.
Condition Ranking of 1894-S Dimes
As far as I know, Hansen does not have an 1894-S dime. No one should expect that he can necessarily aquire one of the best 1894-S dimes, right away. Perhaps it is more relevant to this thread that Hansen now has the Eliasberg-Pogue 1815 half eagle, a coin that I found to be really disappointing. I was one of the few who found the price realized in February 2016 to be more than fair.
The Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, part 14: Successful Third Auction Given Uncertain Market Conditions
So what is Hansen doing with all of his lower grades? Is he selling them back to the dealers, trading, or keeping them? He must have a couple of Million just in his lower graded coins.
Just wondering...
Later, Paul.
Does anyone know if he upgrades the sets as he completes them?
Analyst - you are so anal retentive and in your own world, I don' know what else to say for you to say " Stewart, you are correct"
What type of coin collection did you complete in your life ?
Do people pay you to advise them about the Set Registry ?
Do you feel qualified to advise me ?
Does anal retentive have a hyphen??
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
The Garretts were also very serious collectors of world and ancient coins, so absolute completion was never a concern or a possibility.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Andy,
Are any of the Garrett or Eliasberg world coins in any of your core collections?
I don't have any Garrett coins, but I do have some nice Central American Republic gold pieces from the Eliasberg Collection. All ex: Clapp, IIRC. Here are a couple of them.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Isn't this question a little anal-retentive?
The psychoneurological factors involved in recto-cranial infarction are often co-related with OCD.
Otherwise it could be easily (de)-rectified.
Does @coinlieutenant know you're now a Rear Admiral?
I for the life of me can't figure out what the cat fight is about or who is on who's side but I just want to take the chance to say I am team ColonelJessup and I'll cut a punk
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
StewartBlay:
In addition to ignoring the subject matter of this thread, Stewart is insulting me and making remarks that are not true. It is Stewart's behavior that is childlike. He very recently insulted WonderCoin on this forum, too.
StewartBlay:
I have said as much in other threads. I have agreed that Stewart is a top expert in grading Indian Cents and Lincoln Cents. Nobody does it better! I was one of the few to be supportive when Stewart argued that the relatively uniform, tepid blue toning that is sometimes found on otherwise brown Proof Indian Cents and Matte Proof Lincolns is artificial and probably deliberate. I went out on a limb to support Stewart in his courageous quest to bring such AT to the attention of collectors. While Stewart walked away and stuck his head in the sand, I defended Stewart's position when his posts were attacked by other participants.,
In a very positive way, I quoted Stewart Blay in my three part series on natural toning.
Here is Part 2 (from 2009) of a 3 Part Series on the Importance of Natural Toning
I devoted a positive article to a large cent that Stewart used to own. I even included Blay in the name of this cent. I thought this was fair, as he owned it for years and there are few other collectors, if anyone, who would have appreciated this large cent as much as Stewart did:
Is the Naftzger-Blay 1807/6 the only Gem Quality & Full Red ‘Early Date’ Large Cent?
In my most recent article, I said that one of Stewart's coins might be the second most valuable half cent!
Hidden or Sleeping Rarities, Part 1: Copper Coins
I have tried to get Stewart to cooperate more in efforts to combat coin doctoring. In recent years, he has been hostile and sometimes malicious.
Isn't that the Eye of Horus? Isn't that on our one-dollar bill? Or was that the Illuminati?
edited to add: OMFUG
To each his own. I admire the attempt, but at that rate, there has to be some inevitable recklessness
Buddha would say that everyone is their own worst troll.
I think it's some kind of male appendage measuring contest
_I covered all nine (9) currently known 1894-S dimes and discussed the recent history of them in detail. _
i was under the impression there was 10 of them at least and that an 11th one surfaced several years ago. Read your article and printed it for myself but haven't read it for a few years now.If there's only 9 then i could save myself $10M.
i got the idea this thread was about accomplishments compared to Eliasberg so i thought i would offer my thoughts about what i think would be a realistic accomplishment compared to Eliasberg's.
i will opine that i don't think it will be possible for anyone,even with the deepest pockets imaginable, to match Eliasberg's accomplishment of acquiring every date and mint in every series, in this day and age. Exercise in futility.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
In my interest of collection, IHC PR cents, D. Hansen has assembled a very impressive set that is #2 in the IHC basic set Registry, surpassing my set which is now #3. Remarkably, his set is intentionally focused on toned coins and is proudly advertised as such. And in response to @cameonut2012 I have noted that his set has been upgraded on several occasions.
But his set will never be #1 because of the preferrence shown for RD and CAM coins that are considered red. But this should not detract from the quality of his set. The predominate grade of IHC PR coins is RB. Coins graded RD are very scarce, and rare if they have never been dipped. Hansen's toned IHC PR coins are more rare than RD coins. Most BN IHC PR coins do not posses natural toning.
Hansen seems to have his own taste in coins that is not dictated by industry norms. Perhaps he will be a positive influence in redefining industry norms.
OINK
Analyst - I have watched Mr. Hansen
win a 1913 Lincoln cent graded
PCGS ms 67+ red and pop 1 in auction
For $ 35,000. He bought this coin in his quest to be numero uno in the Lincoln
Cent Set Registry 1909-1958 category.
Do you think either of the Clapps,
Norweb or Colonel Green competed
In this way in the 1880's -1920's ?
OldIndianNutcase - In my humble
opinion Rear Admiral Big Moose
has the # 1 or absolutely the number 2
Set of Proof Indian cents. And I am 100%
Correct in my opinion. And it is unregistered !
I think pretty much everyone agrees with this, including D.L. Hansen.
As I posted back on February 9:
D.L. Hanson's registry set description includes:
So when he said "as complete a set as possible", it is fairly clear that he is expecting to get 100%.
Coloneljessup ....... Stop! Your Killing me here!!
D.L. Hanson's registry set description includes:
"About This Set: The Eliasburg Challenge. The goal is to build as complete a set as is possible in a better grade than the legendary Eliasberg. A worthy challenge Let the work begin!!!"
--> if this is true, he has to sell or replace 95% of all the coins he bought so far.
And he is starting (thanks g_d) 2 years late with that, as he would have needed Pogue to accomplish that goal. Many of the Pogue coins are just gone and wont come up for sale anytime soon. Maybe a Bass Sale could help him, if it ever happens.
No, but Gene Gardner did again and again
Look! A unicorn!.
Trolling itself........
Wait a freaking second... @BigMoose is an Admiral? Jeez. i should have been kissing his butt for much longer. Wouldn't be retiring next july as a lowly commander. To my credit though, James Bond was a Commander, and he had much more fun than most Admirals do. Tom...I mean, "sir", want to come for dinner. Bring coins.
siliconvalleycoins.com
i should have been kissing his butt for much longer
Well, he is a rear admiral!
@AdmButt is currently studying Cardiac Nuclear Physics..
Luckily, he is too much of a patriot to want command of a submarine
I'll take just this one set, thank you very much!
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/era-type-sets/18th-century-type-set-gold-1792-1799/alltimeset/151388
Interesting that his 1796-97 Draped Bust half dollar is only a Fine 15. I'm sure he will be upgrading that one ... not that they are common, but they are available.
Voilà, here are two 1797s, one VF30 and one AU55:
http://collectorscorner.com/Category/Category.aspx?catId=1658&tl=false
Kind regards,
George
coinlieutenant, the closest I came to being in the Military is when I read my father's book on the 4th Marine Division in WWII. He served in the Second World War and had the opportunity to visit some nice vacation spots like Iwo Jima! You can't believe everything the Colonel says. That being said, to anyone who has served or is serving in our Military, you have my heartfelt appreciation.
The Colonel is correct about me studying Nuclear Cardiac Physics. And it is as boring as one can imagine. But, after going through all the nuclear interactions, I might just be able to construct my own bomb to drop on the fat boy in N. Korea.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
Big Moose - You have been studying proof Indian cents for quite some time. Not to mention 1794 Large cents ! Push cardiac physics to the side
From my view you have excellent taste in fine copper ! Certainly nuclear !
BigMoose is one of my favorite people I've met via coins. He also has exquisite breath. Powerful combination
I had a dinner once with the Colonel, BigMoose and TomB. One of the highlights of my numismatic career. I shut up and took notes. They have forgot more then I knew. I think TDN was at the table across from us.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
In (Sullivan's?) bad light, your '36 Walker looks like it's missing some frost on the sun.
Was this the time @SurgeonGeneral dropped two '94's in the garlic mashed? Who knew the small one would pop! like that?
Good memory sir. What I wouldn't give for a wee bit more frost
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
More to the point of this thread, and to Hansen's objective of being the next Eliasberg, I have understood that Hansen will complete this collection and then create a memorial by creating a trust that will hold those coins forever as a rembrance of him. Perhaps some of us on this thread may have an opinion as to the effect on our hobby if this might be the case?
If collecting becomes very limited because too many great coins are in the Smithsonion or private trusts, does this not limit the enthusiasm of the collector base?
justacommeman, Colonel's memory is a scary thing--if we could just harness it for good instead of his usual nefarious purposes.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
it is and was common that great coins in great collections are gone for between 40 years (Pogue and hopefully Bass) and 100 years or more (Clapp+Eliasberg / Garett).
That also was a reason I was prepared to pay so much for certain coins of the Pogue collection as I understood it is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I actually was expecting the Pogue coins not to come up for sale during my life time.
If Hansen wants to put them into a trust and never sell them, he just will be like Bass.
As a collector I am happy about this plan, also keep in mind that the market will need some kind of replacements for Pogue.
Bill Jones will submit to CAC before that ever happens
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I just read through this thread....and now I'm nervous.
Because it would be easy to conclude from my reading that numismatics causes some sort of brain damage.
Over what period of time did these upgrades (66 FS to 67+ FS) occur? Were they all from the same TPGS or was it a back-and-forth thing?
Santeria uses organically-raised free-range chicken which is subsequently battered, deep-fried and served to the poor.
If Bill ever sells, he'll submit. He's not stupid. This also assumes his goal is maximum recovery/profit.
I am glad that BigMoose is finally getting the respect he deserves on this forum.
I will try to find ways to help.
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Nic, not so sure about the respect part--I have been called a Rear Admiral by Colonel Jessup and I don't think it was a compliment. If Shamhart ever gets wind of this I will never hear the end of it!
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
StewartBlay:
While I do not know what Mr. Hansen is thinking, some people treat the registry set competition as a game, like playing poker or the board game Monopoly with real money! Such people are often buying the holders, not the coins. Indeed, someone who has sufficient funds could assemble a highly ranked registry set without knowing anything about coins or even ever seeing the coins that are being acquired. Louis Eliasberg had a considerable understanding of his coins and he certainly cherished them.
Dr. Duckor assembled top registry sets, too. He spent years learning how to grade coins. He was advised by David Akers. He consulted many other experts. Dr. Duckor preferred a PCGS-66 Barber coin with russet toning to a dipped-white PCGS graded MS-67 Barber coin. Dr. Duckor is a discerning numismatist who thinks carefully about the coins he acquires, and does not feel a need to have a #1 registry set.
The Dazzling Collecting Journey of Dr. Steven Duckor
StewartBlay:
@ColonelJessup:
Gene Gardner certainly did not do so. Gene had very little interest in registry sets. For a while, he participated in the registry ATS, under a code name, as a way for people to see pictures of his coins. Gene liked owning multiple examples of each coin. Indeed, if he really liked a coin, he would seek to buy it, regardless of whether he already owned an example of the same type and date. He was not all that concerned about the certified grades, which he knew might change. Without being concerned about registry sets, he formed the all-time best collection of Liberty Seated coins.
The Incredible Gene Gardner Coin Collection, Part 7 – The Final Auction
A Most Distinguished Gentleman: In Memoriam – Gene Gardner
Perhaps I might clarify: Gene Gardener knoingly went out and paid whatever it took with out consideration of cost throughout Newman. And plenty before. He was specifically going for pop-tops and/or mega-quality coins, as well as varities . Knowing Gene personally for decades, having discussed his philosophies, habits, preferences etc,, perhaps bonded by a few of the coins I formerly owned later in his sets, specific coins he wanted from auctions and on the bourse floor, I'll take my chances on my statement, which was not qualified with as much nuance as I now will.
Gene Gardner, with great discrimination and clearly-formed intent, would knowingly pay runaway prices for coins he wanted. A very persistent pattern. Not always, but plenty often. More than once, I've sat with him and his principal advisor as
the advisor quietly exhorted him to stop bidding. Some of those whispers could be heard 5 rows away.