Is this not mail fraud? If so, going after the seller for that, and encouraging all other victims to do so as well, would have a lot more teeth in it than a SNAD.
We can't draw any conclusions because the OP hasn't responded to confirm or deny that he bought this from that person. Even if he did I don't think there's much he can do because the listing just says "20 silver dollar roll" and shows the end coins.
Maybe he didn't get the roll on the Bay? Who knows.
@tigerthecat said:
I recently bought a $20 roll of uncirculated Morgan dollars. 1884 is on the obverse and CC is on the reverse of the roll. The print on the roll reads " The First National Bank of Elko, $20 DOLLARS $20, Elko Nevada. I'm tempted to open up the roll but it's so beautiful as is. I'm in a delima as to open it up or keep it as is. Any opinions as what you would do?
You will be disappointed once you open the roll. I bought three such rolls from three different sellers and all of the rolls are disappointed. So I think should open it and see what is inside, if not as you expected then try to return them if you can.
@messydesk said:
Is this not mail fraud? If so, going after the seller for that, and encouraging all other victims to do so as well, would have a lot more teeth in it than a SNAD.
Where's the fraud? The seller said you'd get a roll of silver dollars with the end coins as pictured. I would bet in 99% of the cases that's exactly what the buyers received. No one told the bidders to run them up to $1,500-$2,000 or higher. Now if the rolls were full of counterfeits, slugs, buck shot....or you didn't even get the item, then that would be fraud. If all the under-bidders were seller shills that might be fraud too....but go ahead and prove that. 98-100% of these customers are happy based on Ebay Feed Backing. Clearly no fraud there. Used car dealers could only hope for such high satisfaction rates. And unless the buyer opens up those rolls in front of a lawyer or USPS, who can say they didn't make a switch to try and rip off the seller? Back in 1983, one of the biggest coin companies in the US sent me a $300-$500 cleaned AU coin when I had paid $3,000 for a supposed gem seated quarter. Was that fraud? Probably. But, it was more like Caveat Emptor. I returned the coin and got my money back. Another time I returned the problem coins only to see the seller skip town/country. Now that was fraud. I didn't have their over-graded coins or the money. Sometimes keeping 50% may be better than 0%.
To see how "beautiful" that Obverse 1884 and reverse CC roll really is....take it to a local show this weekend and see what you get offered for it. Ask for opinions from leading dealers....only they aren't allowed to open the roll. I think they'd give you an offer of $20-$50 based on the fact that everything in that roll could be a cull, including the end coins. They could all be cheap Chinese fakes except the end coins which are obv and rev culls. The more I think about it....the more likely it is that the OP is either shilling us as a gag or works for the seller, or is the seller. The obv coin looks like an 1884-0 due to the weak strike, and is certainly not nice. Odds of that being a CC are very slim. The reverse is so-so for a BU CC Morgan.
@ajaan said:
Am I missing something here? Did the OP link the auction?
No. But someone else linked an Oct 23rd auction with the same features....an 1884 BU obv coin and a BU CC rev coin. It went for $1750. Bidders are hidden to "protect the seller".....lol. The OP should probably tell us how many bids they put in and from what levels. That could help bracket the shill bids. I'd also like to know what pricing "guide" or inputs they used to value the roll at approx $1750 (ie $87.50/coin). The only "sane" bids in this auction were the ones from $4 to $63. It then jumped to $400 which suggest the shills took over. The automatic bidding is canned as 2 shills ran it up from $400 to $1299.99 in 2-15 second increments in approx 1 minute total. Then the "closer" shills took it from there.
"20 Silver Dollar Roll. This unique item is in excellent condition and is attractive and very tight.
All dates and mintmarks should be expected. End 1: "1884" Morgan End 2: "CC" Morgan"
That was all the seller guaranteed. It is a unique item. It's in excellent condition if you consider that culls and FR/AG coins are not, it is slightly attractive on the reverse CC, and it's probably "very tight" whatever that means. All mint marks should be expected - S, 0, and CC. Though, I'm not sure how you could expect "all dates" (1878-1904 and 1921) when the Morgan range covers 23 different years. Could be a loophole. And not so likely you'll be getting the dates of 1893, 1894, and especially 1895 which can run a couple hundred dollars. Fwiw, I'd open such a roll in front of the local postmaster/shipping mgr if it can by FedEx/UPS and ensure it's videotaped. If all those dates aren't there, or a single mm is missing, I'd scream SNAD and go after Paypal/Ebay/Credit Card Co. And since it is a "silver dollar" roll, you should expect all the Peace Dollar dates as well. A "very tight" roll could have meant that they crunched 23 Morgans into a standard roll of 20. All you got was 20 coins.
@Type2 said:
Where is the OP? never said a word maybe a troll?
Either abashed at the responses, if a bona fide post, or laughing at everyone swinging at the straw man he set up.
@Type2 said:
Where is the OP? never said a word maybe a troll?
He was not expecting all the negative response. He was going to open a fake roll here, showing all beautiful rare dates, and sell another 100 rolls on eBay for 10 times more than they are worth. Maybe next time Slick!
Ebay allow buyer return everything now they even try to force seller to pay for the return postage. So open it and check it out if is not as expected then return them. They should not sell unopen roll in the first place. Buyer should know the condition of the item they buy.
I have purchased 4 rolls original bank rolls from the 30's ... All common years and grades from 63- 65 on a few. Some prett wicked end rollers with wild colors on them. I didn't buy from eBay , bought it from a estate sale about 5 years ago.
I have no horse in this game, and certainly understand the apprehension of paying big money for something that could be a giant fail.
That said, my brother purchased one of these rolls off eBay for $2200. I do not know who the specific seller was. I videoed him opening the roll this past Sunday, and the results were very positive. There were coins ranging from 1881 to 1904. Three had CC mint marks. One was an 1898. He is a much more educated coin collector than I am...He had to estimate grade and price in order to send them out for gradng...In his conservative estimations, the total value of the 20 coins was $6900. I will update with actual grades when they come back....He said about a month.
@craZ4coins said:
The beauty of this apparent scam is that the victims won't't know if they have been had unless they open the unopened.
Most probably want to keep their treasure unopened and may never know if they have been ripped -off.
You have to pass it to know what's in it... Sound familiar lol
I've never bought one of coarse but if I did I would open it the second I got it probably recording it for good measure then if it was all crap I'd fight tooth and nail for a SNAD return. EBay has to have delt with this many times before. I wonder how it's gone.
@blkhwks918 said:
I have no horse in this game, and certainly understand the apprehension of paying big money for something that could be a giant fail.
That said, my brother purchased one of these rolls off eBay for $2200. I do not know who the specific seller was. I videoed him opening the roll this past Sunday, and the results were very positive. There were coins ranging from 1881 to 1904. Three had CC mint marks. One was an 1898. He is a much more educated coin collector than I am...He had to estimate grade and price in order to send them out for grading...In his conservative estimations, the total value of the 20 coins was $6900. I will update with actual grades when they come back....He said about a month.
For Whom the Bell Trolls.
These CC roll threads sure do attract first time posters with "positive" experiences.....LOL. Glad to hear they are a "conservative" grader. For $6900 you're gonna need it. That would mean a solid CC mint roll of MS64 CC Morgans....20 of them. Yeah, I give those away every day for $2200....sometimes even $1,000 if I'm feeling particularly altruistic.
If the link is correct you got what you bargained for.
Most rolls on eBay are seeded with the end coins shown being something exciting making you think the entire roll could contain the same.
You'll see gold coins, mercury dimes, CWT's, etc. on the end of cent rolls but inside will get low quality stuff.
You paid $87.50 per coin and I'm pretty sure the seller made a nice profit.
Chalk it up to a learning experience. We've all paid those dues in one way or another.
@blkhwks918 said:
I have no horse in this game, and certainly understand the apprehension of paying big money for something that could be a giant fail.
That said, my brother purchased one of these rolls off eBay for $2200. I do not know who the specific seller was. I videoed him opening the roll this past Sunday, and the results were very positive. There were coins ranging from 1881 to 1904. Three had CC mint marks. One was an 1898. He is a much more educated coin collector than I am...He had to estimate grade and price in order to send them out for gradng...In his conservative estimations, the total value of the 20 coins was $6900. I will update with actual grades when they come back....He said about a month.
Comments
Is this not mail fraud? If so, going after the seller for that, and encouraging all other victims to do so as well, would have a lot more teeth in it than a SNAD.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
We can't draw any conclusions because the OP hasn't responded to confirm or deny that he bought this from that person. Even if he did I don't think there's much he can do because the listing just says "20 silver dollar roll" and shows the end coins.
Maybe he didn't get the roll on the Bay? Who knows.
Collector, occasional seller
You will be disappointed once you open the roll. I bought three such rolls from three different sellers and all of the rolls are disappointed. So I think should open it and see what is inside, if not as you expected then try to return them if you can.
Where's the fraud? The seller said you'd get a roll of silver dollars with the end coins as pictured. I would bet in 99% of the cases that's exactly what the buyers received. No one told the bidders to run them up to $1,500-$2,000 or higher. Now if the rolls were full of counterfeits, slugs, buck shot....or you didn't even get the item, then that would be fraud. If all the under-bidders were seller shills that might be fraud too....but go ahead and prove that. 98-100% of these customers are happy based on Ebay Feed Backing. Clearly no fraud there. Used car dealers could only hope for such high satisfaction rates. And unless the buyer opens up those rolls in front of a lawyer or USPS, who can say they didn't make a switch to try and rip off the seller? Back in 1983, one of the biggest coin companies in the US sent me a $300-$500 cleaned AU coin when I had paid $3,000 for a supposed gem seated quarter. Was that fraud? Probably. But, it was more like Caveat Emptor. I returned the coin and got my money back. Another time I returned the problem coins only to see the seller skip town/country. Now that was fraud. I didn't have their over-graded coins or the money. Sometimes keeping 50% may be better than 0%.
To see how "beautiful" that Obverse 1884 and reverse CC roll really is....take it to a local show this weekend and see what you get offered for it. Ask for opinions from leading dealers....only they aren't allowed to open the roll. I think they'd give you an offer of $20-$50 based on the fact that everything in that roll could be a cull, including the end coins. They could all be cheap Chinese fakes except the end coins which are obv and rev culls. The more I think about it....the more likely it is that the OP is either shilling us as a gag or works for the seller, or is the seller. The obv coin looks like an 1884-0 due to the weak strike, and is certainly not nice. Odds of that being a CC are very slim. The reverse is so-so for a BU CC Morgan.
Am I missing something here? Did the OP link the auction?
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
No. But someone else linked an Oct 23rd auction with the same features....an 1884 BU obv coin and a BU CC rev coin. It went for $1750. Bidders are hidden to "protect the seller".....lol. The OP should probably tell us how many bids they put in and from what levels. That could help bracket the shill bids. I'd also like to know what pricing "guide" or inputs they used to value the roll at approx $1750 (ie $87.50/coin). The only "sane" bids in this auction were the ones from $4 to $63. It then jumped to $400 which suggest the shills took over. The automatic bidding is canned as 2 shills ran it up from $400 to $1299.99 in 2-15 second increments in approx 1 minute total. Then the "closer" shills took it from there.
offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=162248111932&showauto=true
ebay.com/itm/20-Silver-Dollar-Roll-1884-amp-034-CC-034-Morgan-Dollar-Ends-/162248111932?nma=true&si=qAMImNf5JRTwZZKX6KS46NcVOjo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
"20 Silver Dollar Roll. This unique item is in excellent condition and is attractive and very tight.
All dates and mintmarks should be expected. End 1: "1884" Morgan End 2: "CC" Morgan"
That was all the seller guaranteed. It is a unique item. It's in excellent condition if you consider that culls and FR/AG coins are not, it is slightly attractive on the reverse CC, and it's probably "very tight" whatever that means. All mint marks should be expected - S, 0, and CC. Though, I'm not sure how you could expect "all dates" (1878-1904 and 1921) when the Morgan range covers 23 different years. Could be a loophole. And not so likely you'll be getting the dates of 1893, 1894, and especially 1895 which can run a couple hundred dollars. Fwiw, I'd open such a roll in front of the local postmaster/shipping mgr if it can by FedEx/UPS and ensure it's videotaped. If all those dates aren't there, or a single mm is missing, I'd scream SNAD and go after Paypal/Ebay/Credit Card Co. And since it is a "silver dollar" roll, you should expect all the Peace Dollar dates as well. A "very tight" roll could have meant that they crunched 23 Morgans into a standard roll of 20. All you got was 20 coins.
Where is the OP? never said a word maybe a troll?
Hoard the keys.
Go fish. Experience is a good teacher.
Either abashed at the responses, if a bona fide post, or laughing at everyone swinging at the straw man he set up.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
He was not expecting all the negative response. He was going to open a fake roll here, showing all beautiful rare dates, and sell another 100 rolls on eBay for 10 times more than they are worth. Maybe next time Slick!
The roll shown in the dark Ebay photo in that auction is also allegedly from "Elko, Nevada".
I guess there could have been another recent sale of an "Elko" Morgan roll, with a 1884 BU obverse coin and a BU CC reverse coin.
Based on the sheer volume of "old" Morgan rolls on Ebay, those odds are higher than I would have guessed.
Ebay allow buyer return everything now they even try to force seller to pay for the return postage. So open it and check it out if is not as expected then return them. They should not sell unopen roll in the first place. Buyer should know the condition of the item they buy.
This poster has not returned. He must have trolling for business.
Yup, after all the great advice its nothing but ......Spam.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
the OP posted no seller name and no seller link
(return them fast)
Every time I see your pic all I think is "Wish in to the corn filed Anthony" That's what he needs to do with this roll.
Hoard the keys.
I have purchased 4 rolls original bank rolls from the 30's ... All common years and grades from 63- 65 on a few. Some prett wicked end rollers with wild colors on them. I didn't buy from eBay , bought it from a estate sale about 5 years ago.
I have no horse in this game, and certainly understand the apprehension of paying big money for something that could be a giant fail.
That said, my brother purchased one of these rolls off eBay for $2200. I do not know who the specific seller was. I videoed him opening the roll this past Sunday, and the results were very positive. There were coins ranging from 1881 to 1904. Three had CC mint marks. One was an 1898. He is a much more educated coin collector than I am...He had to estimate grade and price in order to send them out for gradng...In his conservative estimations, the total value of the 20 coins was $6900. I will update with actual grades when they come back....He said about a month.
Wow a 98 CC!
The beauty of this apparent scam is that the victims won't't know if they have been had unless they open the unopened.
Most probably want to keep their treasure unopened and may never know if they have been ripped -off.
I read it as he found 3 CC AND a 1898. Not special enough to note unless it was an S in my opinion.
Maybe he was dyslexic and meant 89!
You have to pass it to know what's in it... Sound familiar lol
I've never bought one of coarse but if I did I would open it the second I got it probably recording it for good measure then if it was all crap I'd fight tooth and nail for a SNAD return. EBay has to have delt with this many times before. I wonder how it's gone.
The likelihood that most buyers don't open the rolls probably explains the lack of heavy negative feedback.
I would be banned if I expressed suggested punishment for anyone who scams with bogus original rolls as it involves male body parts.
For Whom the Bell Trolls.
These CC roll threads sure do attract first time posters with "positive" experiences.....LOL. Glad to hear they are a "conservative" grader. For $6900 you're gonna need it. That would mean a solid CC mint roll of MS64 CC Morgans....20 of them. Yeah, I give those away every day for $2200....sometimes even $1,000 if I'm feeling particularly altruistic.
And probably worth at least $6800 based on my price guides.
If the link is correct you got what you bargained for.
Most rolls on eBay are seeded with the end coins shown being something exciting making you think the entire roll could contain the same.
You'll see gold coins, mercury dimes, CWT's, etc. on the end of cent rolls but inside will get low quality stuff.
You paid $87.50 per coin and I'm pretty sure the seller made a nice profit.
Chalk it up to a learning experience. We've all paid those dues in one way or another.
Throw the video on YouTube and post the link.