@sparky64 said:
It's an unsolvable problem with circular arguments.
If it goes down the way I think it will, a few new trends will be set.
I want to make a case for the Rose Bowl being as desirable as a playoff game but I'm not articulate enough this morning to do so.
Being in the mix for a national championship is of course the goal but I think the Rose Bowl is still the best bowl game out there.
@sparky64 said:
It's an unsolvable problem with circular arguments.
If it goes down the way I think it will, a few new trends will be set.
I want to make a case for the Rose Bowl being as desirable as a playoff game but I'm not articulate enough this morning to do so.
Being in the mix for a national championship is of course the goal but I think the Rose Bowl is still the best bowl game out there.
Yeah, but what's your Top 4?
Fair question.
I think It was a mistake to put Ohio State at No.2 prior to the conference championship weekend. Especially since they were sitting this weekend.
No way possible to move them out.
IMHO, they stumbled the last third of the year.
I can't argue much because they got the W's but they were ugly and barely.
Now MY final four.
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Washington
4. Penn State
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
@orioles93 said:
Alabama and Clemson are locks. I think OSU is a lock as well, though I don't agree with it. Washington is the only one I can see moving out of the top 4 because of their schedule. When Rutgers is your marquee out of conference game of the year, you've got problems. Penn state scheduled out of conference games against conference champion Temple who just beat ranked Navy, and ranked Pitt who also beat clemson this season. The Big Ten is worlds better than the PAC 12 and the champ of the Big Ten should be in over the PAC 12 champ. My picks are Alabama, Clemson, OSU, Penn State.
Why is Clemson a lock? I am just curious the rationale. They lost a game and barely won a couple others including yesterday. Why should they be a "lock" and not just in the conversation with the others you mention?
@orioles93 said:
Alabama and Clemson are locks. I think OSU is a lock as well, though I don't agree with it. Washington is the only one I can see moving out of the top 4 because of their schedule. When Rutgers is your marquee out of conference game of the year, you've got problems. Penn state scheduled out of conference games against conference champion Temple who just beat ranked Navy, and ranked Pitt who also beat clemson this season. The Big Ten is worlds better than the PAC 12 and the champ of the Big Ten should be in over the PAC 12 champ. My picks are Alabama, Clemson, OSU, Penn State.
Why is Clemson a lock? I am just curious the rationale. They lost a game and barely won a couple others including yesterday. Why should they be a "lock" and not just in the conversation with the others you mention?
I just think they are in th eyes of the committee. Not necessarily to me but I think the committee will put them in.
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A good argument can be made for any of the teams in the conversation. Whatever the committee does some people will be unhappy with legitimate arguments. After Alabama I could see the next three spots going to any of: Clemson, Washington, Ohio State or Penn State. I couldn't argue with whoever they choose. The problem is a deserving team is getting left out no matter what. Michigan is close as well. After that there is some separation, in my opinion, before the next group with Oklahoma, USC, and some others.
Most every argument has other considerations. For example Washington gets knocked for their out of conference schedule (and rightfully so) but when they scheduled the Rutgers game Rutgers was way better than Colorado was when Michigan schedule that game. Just turned out that Rutgers is really bad this year and Colorado is having their best season in 20 years. I would prefer teams, like Washington, not schedule the Portland States of the world though. I think that's wrong.
Strength of schedule should be a consideration but it feeds on itself. What I mean is it sort of doubles down on the rankings. These ranked teams are good and you played (or didn't play) this good teams and therefore that dictates how hard you had it. I typed in NCAA strength of schedule and the first site is good. It ranks the following for strength of schedule:
Heavy on the SEC because the rankings say the SEC is good so if you play the SEC you were good.
All factors need to be considered including the eye test. Not the ESPN highlights test but actually watching games. In the end though, again, there will be some deserving teams left out which will make for good fodder on sports talk radio this week.
I am sticking with my guess of status quo.
Alabama
Ohio State
Clemson
Washington
@sparky64 said:
It's an unsolvable problem with circular arguments.
If it goes down the way I think it will, a few new trends will be set.
I want to make a case for the Rose Bowl being as desirable as a playoff game but I'm not articulate enough this morning to do so.
Being in the mix for a national championship is of course the goal but I think the Rose Bowl is still the best bowl game out there.
I grew up with the Rose Bowl being the prize since I grew up in Pac 8/10/12 country. However, it's different now. All bowl games are a distant second place to the playoffs. For example, let's say 2 Big 10 teams go to the playoffs so the third team goes to the Rose Bowl. That's not really a big deal. Sure it's a big deal to the teams like Cal who haven't been to the Rose Bowl since 1950-something but it's not a prize. If it's sunny and 75 it's a nice vacation for the team and their fans but that's it in my opinion.
@orioles93 said:
Alabama and Clemson are locks. I think OSU is a lock as well, though I don't agree with it. Washington is the only one I can see moving out of the top 4 because of their schedule. When Rutgers is your marquee out of conference game of the year, you've got problems. Penn state scheduled out of conference games against conference champion Temple who just beat ranked Navy, and ranked Pitt who also beat clemson this season. The Big Ten is worlds better than the PAC 12 and the champ of the Big Ten should be in over the PAC 12 champ. My picks are Alabama, Clemson, OSU, Penn State.
Why is Clemson a lock? I am just curious the rationale. They lost a game and barely won a couple others including yesterday. Why should they be a "lock" and not just in the conversation with the others you mention?
I just think they are in th eyes of the committee. Not necessarily to me but I think the committee will put them in.
That's my point though. Why is this? Why is the committee so seemingly locked in on Clemson. I don't get it. I saw them play against Louisville and they looked pretty average to me. Other than Alabama nobody should be a lock.
Putting my Bias aside as to the need to dismantle the mega conferences and have eight conferences with an 8 team playoff for the national championship, this year will have its controversies as to the four that are selected by the committee.
As much I will agree that Penn State has played well and found ways to win key games, including a jaw dropping win against Wisconsin, I see a 39 point loss to Michigan as a deal breaker for being selected. I would go with Ohio State, UW, Alabama and Clemson.
No matter who is selected between Penn Stateand OSU, there is going to be outrage. And that seems to go with the territory given the process.
Bottom line is OSU has the better chance of winning the Natioal Championship than Penn State. I am not looking forward to seeing an Alabama Penn State match up.
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Feel bad for Penn State. They had a couple bumps in the road but otherwise did everything right. Can't we go to eight team playoffs. Then we can feel bad for number nine.
My teen age son has no interest in sports. I was explaining the playoff situation to him. He said, "can't they just have a system to select the teams?" He made it sound so simple. As he explained to me, in League of Legends (which he always reminds me gets more viewers than the World Series for it's championship) everybody plays everybody to determine who goes to the championship.
Congrats to Washington, Clemson and of course OSU. Long time to December 31st, good time to get healed, rested and put in the game plan.
On January 1, 1926, Washington and Alabama played in the Rose Bowl. Bama won 20-19, scoring all their points in the 3rd quarter. Alabama took the train and worked out at each stop. They say this game put southern football on the map.
I hope I am wrong but I think the Huskies O line might get eaten alive by Alabama. Washington has a great coach in Peterson and deserves to be there but I think Michigan as the 4 seed would make for a better game.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
lots of time now to discuss who the winners of the two games might be, but I really think that both Clemson and Alabama, who are probably the favorites out of the gate, can be beaten.
Florida wasn't a real "test" of how to beat the 'Tide unless all that's considered is the opening drive of Florida. once things got rolling that game was over quick. Washington will be a better game I'm sure. not that I think they will beat Alabama, but they should be more competitive and allow us to see Alabama vs. a quality Team.
as for Clemson and Ohio State, I think that will be the better of the first two playoff games. neither Team has really shined in the last half of the season, but with rest and time to prepare for a game in the desert we should see a real barn-burner.
One thing to consider... The Huskies seem to have a tradition of beating expectations when they are the underdog. I still remember the LA Times Sports section headline from the 1978 Rosebowl... Moon Over Michigan. And then there was the upset of Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl -offhand can't recall the year. I see Alabama as the better team but I have this hunch it will be a better game than what the spread would suggest.
I see OSU beating Clemson in a close high scoring game
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I think Alabama will smoke Washington. I just don't see it being a close game. OSU and Clemson should be good, but I think OSU comes out on top. I see Barrett and Samuel having big days. I am more excited about other bowl games this year than I am the playoff games. The Sugar Bowl (Oklahoma v Auburn), Rose Bowl (Penn State v USC), Citrus Bowl (Louisville v LSU), and Orange Bowl (Florida St v Michigan) all look like good games.
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Big Ten has tough bowl matchups. Tennessee, Florida, Florida State, and USC all have Home games against their Big Ten Opponents. And 6-6 teams Indiana and Northwestern both face ranked teams. I wish these bowl games were a little more fair.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
I don't know that "fair" is the right word, but in a post-season Bowl Game it doesn't make sense that anyone should be playing at home. this is Football, what I would like to see is a Team like Florida travel to Ann Arbor for a New Years Day game up North!!!
I mean, really, it isn't like no one would attend or no one would watch on TV, but if that ever happened they'd be complaining in Florida really loud.
the truth of that is that Michigan should clean their clock wherever they play.
@garnettstyle said:
Big Ten has tough bowl matchups. Tennessee, Florida, Florida State, and USC all have Home games against their Big Ten Opponents. And 6-6 teams Indiana and Northwestern both face ranked teams. I wish these bowl games were a little more fair.
EVERY year you have excuses about the bowl games. Why don't you play the games before you start making excuses. If the Big 10 is so dominant it shouldn't matter where the games are played. Plus, as I have stated in the past I have been to many Rose Bowl games and the Big 10 usually filled half the stadium and I wouldn't expect any different this year. Their fans travel well... especially to sunny places.
As for locations of the games the games are played, for the most part, in places people want to vacation to. No offense but there are not many Big 10 cities I want to visit in December. I am sure they are great places to live but they look miserable to vacation. Cold without great skiing doesn't seem ideal to me.
The Big 12 director is upset that Ohio State got in. I personally have no problem with Ohio State getting in. The rules aren't perfect and they aren't crystal clear but most would agree Ohio State is a better team than Oklahoma... and in fact, they beat them head to head. Plus, if not Ohio State it would have been Penn State getting in. Either way the Big 12 wasn't getting in this year.
@keets said: As for locations of the games the games are played
why not play the games in places where other SEC/ACC etc. Teams play instead of just the cities they have been played in for generations??
I can't disagree with this idea and I am not sure of the problem. Might not be enough hotel rooms, in the smaller college towns, for the mass of out of town folk that come to the playoff games. I don't know that. Just a guess. For example, we can't get the NBA all-star game in Sac for this reason... or so they claim. Could also be that we are not a destination city of course.
The super bowl was held in New York recently. Looked like a huge crowd to me. Give the Big Ten fans a break so they don't have to travel so far every year. Its too big of a disadvantage to be the away team every year. Home field counts.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
@garnettstyle said:
The super bowl was held in New York recently. Looked like a huge crowd to me. Give the Big Ten fans a break so they don't have to travel so far every year. Its too big of a disadvantage to be the away team every year. Home field counts.
There are only 3 bowl games played up north, Boise, Detroit, and Yankee Stadium. There's a reason for that.
Garnett, the bowl bids are offered to the teams. Why don't y'all quit accepting them if it's so unfair.
Let me see now, do I want to take the family to Detroit or Orlando?
@garnettstyle said:
The super bowl was held in New York recently. Looked like a huge crowd to me. Give the Big Ten fans a break so they don't have to travel so far every year. Its too big of a disadvantage to be the away team every year. Home field counts.
There are only 3 bowl games played up north, Boise, Detroit, and Yankee Stadium. There's a reason for that.
Garnett, the bowl bids are offered to the teams. Why don't y'all quit accepting them if it's so unfair.
Let me see now, do I want to take the family to Detroit or Orlando?
I went to the penn state vs Boston college bowl game in Yankee stadium a few years ago and that was awesome. No one seemed to mind the cold weather and it was a great atmosphere.
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@garnettstyle said:
The super bowl was held in New York recently. Looked like a huge crowd to me. Give the Big Ten fans a break so they don't have to travel so far every year. Its too big of a disadvantage to be the away team every year. Home field counts.
There are only 3 bowl games played up north, Boise, Detroit, and Yankee Stadium. There's a reason for that.
Garnett, the bowl bids are offered to the teams. Why don't y'all quit accepting them if it's so unfair.
Let me see now, do I want to take the family to Detroit or Orlando?
I went to the penn state vs Boston college bowl game in Yankee stadium a few years ago and that was awesome. No one seemed to mind the cold weather and it was a great atmosphere.
Just wondering, if that's the case why more bowl games aren't played up north.
btw, I watch all the Bama games on tv, last game I went to Ray Perkins was the coach. I love my ac when its 115 degrees (heat index) in September. Y'all got the cold, we got the heat. Lets do a home and away during the regular season and leave the bowls like they are. If you aren't in the playoffs what do the other bowls mean, braggin' rights?
hey BS, we had this discussion last year or earlier this year. I will only say that the Teams up north play in enough "warm" locations at home during the season to appreciate what it's like. I understand why they play the Bowls where they do, so that the conditions are optimum for the finest play, but garnett does have a point about home-field advantage. the NFL is the worst case for it --- they place such a premium on home-field advantage with all the 12th man hype and "cold weather" Teams, only to take that away for the most important game of the season, the Super Bowl.
I am old enough to have witnessed important playoff games on frigid fields in terrible weather, pre-Super Bowl. THAT was Football at its finest!!!
There is some kind of irony at work here and it's almost a mathematical impossibility that Meyers has only won one Big Ten Championship. How is it possible that Meyer is 61-5 at OSU and has won exactly one Big Ten Championship Game? Even if you subtract his 12-0 season when OSU was ineligible to go to a bowl he is 49-5 and again only one Championship. What are the odds?Weird. Poetic justice?
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Brick said:
I am only about 5 miles from the "shoe." On Dec 31st I think I would rather go to Phoenix to watch the Buckeyes and Clemson than just down the road.
I hear you. I grew up in literally the shadows of Michigan Stadium. All aI ever wanted as a kid was to go to the Rose Bowl and the sun of California. I've sat in many of cold November games in that stadium and a game in January? No thanks.
I did go to the largest hockey game at U of M. I think 120,000 plus. I would never do it again.
So we have me complaining over the officiating at The Horse Shoe a couple of Saturday's ago. Me using Speights separated shoulder as a crutch. Keets always worried about the weather for OSU and garnettstyle crying about the weather last year against MSU and now he's whining about the Big Ten's Bowl schedule again? Us Big Ten guys sound a lot whimpy and full of excuses ; )
Clemson vs Ohio State would be played in South Carolina this year as Clemson is the higher seed if you really wanted to reward the higher seed.
FYI- that was not a first down.
Brick, I'm with you otherwise. It's why I now own a house in California. You are welcome anytime OSU goes back to the Rose Bowl. Tickets on me. You too Keets. Garnettsyle, my house isn't big enough for the two of us. I'm putting you up at a hotel.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@garnettstyle said:
The super bowl was held in New York recently. Looked like a huge crowd to me. Give the Big Ten fans a break so they don't have to travel so far every year. Its too big of a disadvantage to be the away team every year. Home field counts.
You are out of your mind. Michigan, OSU, Wisconsin, Iowa alum travel VERY well and love going to warm climates for Bowl games. Most Alums don't live in the state they graduated from. They have to travel regardless. Bowl games are a reward and a vacation for a good season ( for the players, fans and alum). I was at the Michigan- Texas Rose Bowl. We lost 38-37 in a heartbreaker but we all got over it in a minute as the event was SO amazing. You owe it to yourself to go to Bowl game if you haven't been in California, Arizona or Florida. People come for a week and make a vacation out of it. No one is coming to Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Ohio for a week in Late December or Januany. What are you going to do for a week? Besides, the Bowls are sponsored and depend on full hotels for five days or more.
I love winning as much as the next guy but you as placing too much importance on the equity of fairness of Bowl Games. You are looking at it from a fan only basis perhaps. Bowls are basically a celebration and award for the ALUM who support the University. It's cool as you have alum from all generations going. It's the best. A week long party with alum and fans from both schools. Amazing.
Disadvantage. Smisavantage.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@keets said: I wish these bowl games were a little more fair.
I don't know that "fair" is the right word, but in a post-season Bowl Game it doesn't make sense that anyone should be playing at home. this is Football, what I would like to see is a Team like Florida travel to Ann Arbor for a New Years Day game up North!!!
I mean, really, it isn't like no one would attend or no one would watch on TV, but if that ever happened they'd be complaining in Florida really loud.
the truth of that is that Michigan should clean their clock wherever they play.
I agree, Michigan beat Florida 41-7 last year in the State of Florida. As many Michigan fans there as Florida fans. I don't remember it being a disavantage.
I will say playing UCLA or USC In the Rose Bowl is a tough tough tough out. BUT, it makes it even sweeter when you do win there.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I find it comical that mark and Larry are pretending to play stupid, in trying to pretend to act like home field advantage is not a huge advantage in college football. Nice try guys.
And mark get over it. The better team made the playoffs. Michigan will never recruit as good as urban Meyer.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
wowzer, Mark comes back with a vengeance after a brief hiatus!! where the heck were you??
Keets always worried about the weather for OSU
I hope this isn't revisionist posting on my part, but I don't think I really worried about the weather. what I said, or was trying to say, was that the rainy, windy weather affected OSU more than the opponents they were playing. Barrett is the kind of QB that needs optimal conditions to be really effective as a passer. that should mean he'll be OK out in the desert.
to your point of Meyer's record I will only say that those five losses all seemed to be to the wrong Team at exactly the right time. CFB is funny that way, they place importance on non-Conference games but ignore them in the overall record. it reminds me of the old days when the Big 10 Champion couldn't go to the Rose Bowl in consecutive years. that really gave an extra boost to the Ohio State/Michigan game and fueled the whole Woody and Bo rivalry.
Mark, can I stay at your place during Rose Bowl week even if I don't go to the game??
@garnettstyle said:
I find it comical that mark and Larry are pretending to play stupid, in trying to pretend to act like home field advantage is not a huge advantage in college football. Nice try guys.
And mark get over it. The better team made the playoffs. Michigan will never recruit as good as urban Meyer.
I was not suggesting there isn't some advantage. I just don't think it's such a big deal and it just sounds like you are making excuses. Plus these are for the most just exhibition games so does it really matter in life!? The Big 10 has come a long way in the last three years. Enjoy their success, win, lose, or draw. I dislike when people make excuses. I coached a lot of my kid's teams and I never blamed the refs, the field conditions, or any of that other stuff. I tried to instill in the kids to try to play their best and not get caught up in whining and making excuses about everything. You win some and you lose some.
@keets said:
Larry, try telling Mark all that about THE CALL.
I think I did. I suggested they just beat Iowa and then the call doesn't matter.
However, I do understand rivalry games are more important than exhibition games. Still not life and death of course.
Still, though, I think whining about the refs is one of the worst. We have a horrible problem with that here in Nor Cal. Our teams never seem to lose a game except for the refs bad calls. Without those bad calls every Nor Cal team would win every game. Ok, the Niners fans are not using that excuse this year.
Gotta agree with mark, that Michigan-Texas game at the Rose Bowl was an awesome party and a memorable game. More recently, we got to know the Iowa folks while Stanford was giving their squad a pounding. They were a hoot, but it was nice to see the absence of motor homes and minivans on the freeway shortly after the hoopla was done.
@garnettstyle said:
I find it comical that mark and Larry are pretending to play stupid, in trying to pretend to act like home field advantage is not a huge advantage in college football. Nice try guys.
And mark get over it. The better team made the playoffs. Michigan will never recruit as good as urban Meyer.
I find it comical that you ignore the facts about the essence of Bowl Games. You live in a bubble.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@travis t said:
Gotta agree with mark, that Michigan-Texas game at the Rose Bowl was an awesome party and a memorable game. More recently, we got to know the Iowa folks while Stanford was giving their squad a pounding. They were a hoot, but it was nice to see the absence of motor homes and minivans on the freeway shortly after the hoopla was done.
And this is what Bowl games are about
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@keets said:
Larry, try telling Mark all that about THE CALL.
Actually the calls. The Call was a coin flip spot. I can live with it. I still have people coming up to me saying he didn't make the line. I'd like to not hear that actually.
He did not make the line
@keets said:
wowzer, Mark comes back with a vengeance after a brief hiatus!! where the heck were you??
I had a show that that started the Sunday after the game and the curtain just lowered yesterday. My online activities needed to be prioritized. I'm heading backwards home to Cali and then on to the Orient which will give me a lot of down time so expect mad posts : )
Not a first down
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Larry - That was all well and good when bowl games were seen as nothing more than exhibition's, now bowl results influence perception of conferences. The BIG is considered the best conference this year but thanks to bowl tie-in have by far the most difficult bowl slate. Yet if the BIG fails to perform, when realistically they should only be favored in maybe 4 of their matchups, the media will harp on how over-rated the BIG was and is.
Not about the teams playing in the cold its about the bowl trip being a vacation for the fans. If you play a game in Chicago people will fly in and out and just go the game. They partner with cities in warm weather so people come in for the week and spend money. Big boost to the local economy.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
@garnettstyle said:
Larry - That was all well and good when bowl games were seen as nothing more than exhibition's, now bowl results influence perception of conferences. The BIG is considered the best conference this year but thanks to bowl tie-in have by far the most difficult bowl slate. Yet if the BIG fails to perform, when realistically they should only be favored in maybe 4 of their matchups, the media will harp on how over-rated the BIG was and is.
Not about the teams playing in the cold its about the bowl trip being a vacation for the fans. If you play a game in Chicago people will fly in and out and just go the game. They partner with cities in warm weather so people come in for the week and spend money. Big boost to the local economy.
I know a lot of sports fans but there are few sports fans, at least out here, that care which conference wins the most bowl games. I think that may be more prevalent in your area of the country. It will get one mention on sports center and we move on. It just doesn't matter. Our worlds are different.
As for which is the best conference that's a different debate. I think overall most agree the Big 10 is best this year. Hard to argue with 4 teams in the top 10. However, I heard someone on sports radio suggesting that if you look at ratings that break it down by divisions of each conference it's not as clear cut. That is you have one great division and one horrible division. I don't have the time to investigate that but I am sure you can let me know how it looks.
Love the Pooley Hubert picture-thanks for posting it. And pointing out that Alabama football had a great tradition well before the arrival of the Bear.
One thing that makes college football special is that almost all schools can claim that they have had a great coach - and several schools have been blessed as having more than one and even more than a few. Seems that in looking so closely at what is happening at the present, the past seems to fade further away. And with that we loose a sense of the value of what came before us in terms of how we perceive greatness in sports.
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Great photo -- absolutely going to miss Lundquist. Brad Nessler is announced as his replacement and that is a big step down. Still miss the days of Keith Jackson, especially when he was with Frank Broyles.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Disagree. Brad Nessler is a massive upgrade over Verne. Maybe not prime Verne but Verne lost a step 15 years ago and has regressed ever since. Constant mistakes of all varieties. I liked Verne back in the day but he simply isn't good anymore.
Comments
Yeah, but what's your Top 4?
Fair question.
I think It was a mistake to put Ohio State at No.2 prior to the conference championship weekend. Especially since they were sitting this weekend.
No way possible to move them out.
IMHO, they stumbled the last third of the year.
I can't argue much because they got the W's but they were ugly and barely.
Now MY final four.
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Washington
4. Penn State
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Why is Clemson a lock? I am just curious the rationale. They lost a game and barely won a couple others including yesterday. Why should they be a "lock" and not just in the conversation with the others you mention?
I just think they are in th eyes of the committee. Not necessarily to me but I think the committee will put them in.
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A good argument can be made for any of the teams in the conversation. Whatever the committee does some people will be unhappy with legitimate arguments. After Alabama I could see the next three spots going to any of: Clemson, Washington, Ohio State or Penn State. I couldn't argue with whoever they choose. The problem is a deserving team is getting left out no matter what. Michigan is close as well. After that there is some separation, in my opinion, before the next group with Oklahoma, USC, and some others.
Most every argument has other considerations. For example Washington gets knocked for their out of conference schedule (and rightfully so) but when they scheduled the Rutgers game Rutgers was way better than Colorado was when Michigan schedule that game. Just turned out that Rutgers is really bad this year and Colorado is having their best season in 20 years. I would prefer teams, like Washington, not schedule the Portland States of the world though. I think that's wrong.
Strength of schedule should be a consideration but it feeds on itself. What I mean is it sort of doubles down on the rankings. These ranked teams are good and you played (or didn't play) this good teams and therefore that dictates how hard you had it. I typed in NCAA strength of schedule and the first site is good. It ranks the following for strength of schedule:
1 Ohio State (11-1) 13.1 1 56 1
2 Michigan (10-2) 11.5 2 75 15
3 Alabama (13-0) 10.6 1 40 2
4 Wisconsin (10-3) 9.6 1 44 3
5 USC (9-3) 9.4 1 20 4
6 LSU (7-4) 9.4 4 26 7
7 Clemson (12-1) 8.5 1 17 5
8 Auburn (8-4) 8.4 7 30 17
9 Colorado (10-3) 8.2 9 115 10
10 Florida St (9-3) 8.1
The same site lets you go back to past years. So 2014-2015 it looked like this:
1 Auburn (8-5) 14.0 1 45 1
2 Alabama (12-2) 13.7 1 29 2
3 Mississippi (9-4) 12.3 2 53 5
4 Arkansas (7-6) 11.8 2 41 3
5 Oregon (13-2) 11.4 2 61 12
6 Ohio State (14-1) 11.1 6 55 26
7 LSU (8-5) 11.0 3 22 4
8 UCLA (10-3) 10.2 6 39 8
9 TX Christian (12-1) 10.1 6 121 10
10 Miss State (10-3) 9.7
Heavy on the SEC because the rankings say the SEC is good so if you play the SEC you were good.
All factors need to be considered including the eye test. Not the ESPN highlights test but actually watching games. In the end though, again, there will be some deserving teams left out which will make for good fodder on sports talk radio this week.
I am sticking with my guess of status quo.
Alabama
Ohio State
Clemson
Washington
I grew up with the Rose Bowl being the prize since I grew up in Pac 8/10/12 country. However, it's different now. All bowl games are a distant second place to the playoffs. For example, let's say 2 Big 10 teams go to the playoffs so the third team goes to the Rose Bowl. That's not really a big deal. Sure it's a big deal to the teams like Cal who haven't been to the Rose Bowl since 1950-something but it's not a prize. If it's sunny and 75 it's a nice vacation for the team and their fans but that's it in my opinion.
That's my point though. Why is this? Why is the committee so seemingly locked in on Clemson. I don't get it. I saw them play against Louisville and they looked pretty average to me. Other than Alabama nobody should be a lock.
Putting my Bias aside as to the need to dismantle the mega conferences and have eight conferences with an 8 team playoff for the national championship, this year will have its controversies as to the four that are selected by the committee.
As much I will agree that Penn State has played well and found ways to win key games, including a jaw dropping win against Wisconsin, I see a 39 point loss to Michigan as a deal breaker for being selected. I would go with Ohio State, UW, Alabama and Clemson.
No matter who is selected between Penn Stateand OSU, there is going to be outrage. And that seems to go with the territory given the process.
Bottom line is OSU has the better chance of winning the Natioal Championship than Penn State. I am not looking forward to seeing an Alabama Penn State match up.
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Feel bad for Penn State. They had a couple bumps in the road but otherwise did everything right. Can't we go to eight team playoffs. Then we can feel bad for number nine.
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Ralph
My teen age son has no interest in sports. I was explaining the playoff situation to him. He said, "can't they just have a system to select the teams?" He made it sound so simple. As he explained to me, in League of Legends (which he always reminds me gets more viewers than the World Series for it's championship) everybody plays everybody to determine who goes to the championship.
Congrats to Washington, Clemson and of course OSU. Long time to December 31st, good time to get healed, rested and put in the game plan.
On January 1, 1926, Washington and Alabama played in the Rose Bowl. Bama won 20-19, scoring all their points in the 3rd quarter. Alabama took the train and worked out at each stop. They say this game put southern football on the map.
"Pooley" Hubert running for Alabama.
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@Bullsitter very timely trivia and cool pic.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
I hope I am wrong but I think the Huskies O line might get eaten alive by Alabama. Washington has a great coach in Peterson and deserves to be there but I think Michigan as the 4 seed would make for a better game.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I see lines online of:
Alabama by 14
Ohio State by 3
U$C by 7.5
Wisconsin by 7.5
OK by 5
Michigan by 7
Of those I like U$C the best. I am very interested in that one as I think USC is really good. We shall see....
We shall see....
lots of time now to discuss who the winners of the two games might be, but I really think that both Clemson and Alabama, who are probably the favorites out of the gate, can be beaten.
Florida wasn't a real "test" of how to beat the 'Tide unless all that's considered is the opening drive of Florida. once things got rolling that game was over quick. Washington will be a better game I'm sure. not that I think they will beat Alabama, but they should be more competitive and allow us to see Alabama vs. a quality Team.
as for Clemson and Ohio State, I think that will be the better of the first two playoff games. neither Team has really shined in the last half of the season, but with rest and time to prepare for a game in the desert we should see a real barn-burner.
One thing to consider... The Huskies seem to have a tradition of beating expectations when they are the underdog. I still remember the LA Times Sports section headline from the 1978 Rosebowl... Moon Over Michigan. And then there was the upset of Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl -offhand can't recall the year. I see Alabama as the better team but I have this hunch it will be a better game than what the spread would suggest.
I see OSU beating Clemson in a close high scoring game
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think Alabama will smoke Washington. I just don't see it being a close game. OSU and Clemson should be good, but I think OSU comes out on top. I see Barrett and Samuel having big days. I am more excited about other bowl games this year than I am the playoff games. The Sugar Bowl (Oklahoma v Auburn), Rose Bowl (Penn State v USC), Citrus Bowl (Louisville v LSU), and Orange Bowl (Florida St v Michigan) all look like good games.
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Big Ten has tough bowl matchups. Tennessee, Florida, Florida State, and USC all have Home games against their Big Ten Opponents. And 6-6 teams Indiana and Northwestern both face ranked teams. I wish these bowl games were a little more fair.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
I wish these bowl games were a little more fair.
I don't know that "fair" is the right word, but in a post-season Bowl Game it doesn't make sense that anyone should be playing at home. this is Football, what I would like to see is a Team like Florida travel to Ann Arbor for a New Years Day game up North!!!
I mean, really, it isn't like no one would attend or no one would watch on TV, but if that ever happened they'd be complaining in Florida really loud.
the truth of that is that Michigan should clean their clock wherever they play.
EVERY year you have excuses about the bowl games. Why don't you play the games before you start making excuses. If the Big 10 is so dominant it shouldn't matter where the games are played. Plus, as I have stated in the past I have been to many Rose Bowl games and the Big 10 usually filled half the stadium and I wouldn't expect any different this year. Their fans travel well... especially to sunny places.
As for locations of the games the games are played, for the most part, in places people want to vacation to. No offense but there are not many Big 10 cities I want to visit in December. I am sure they are great places to live but they look miserable to vacation. Cold without great skiing doesn't seem ideal to me.
As for locations of the games the games are played
why not play the games in places where other SEC/ACC etc. Teams play instead of just the cities they have been played in for generations??
The Big 12 director is upset that Ohio State got in. I personally have no problem with Ohio State getting in. The rules aren't perfect and they aren't crystal clear but most would agree Ohio State is a better team than Oklahoma... and in fact, they beat them head to head. Plus, if not Ohio State it would have been Penn State getting in. Either way the Big 12 wasn't getting in this year.
I can't disagree with this idea and I am not sure of the problem. Might not be enough hotel rooms, in the smaller college towns, for the mass of out of town folk that come to the playoff games. I don't know that. Just a guess. For example, we can't get the NBA all-star game in Sac for this reason... or so they claim. Could also be that we are not a destination city of course.
The super bowl was held in New York recently. Looked like a huge crowd to me. Give the Big Ten fans a break so they don't have to travel so far every year. Its too big of a disadvantage to be the away team every year. Home field counts.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
There are only 3 bowl games played up north, Boise, Detroit, and Yankee Stadium. There's a reason for that.
Garnett, the bowl bids are offered to the teams. Why don't y'all quit accepting them if it's so unfair.
Let me see now, do I want to take the family to Detroit or Orlando?
Oh my, what do we have here?
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I went to the penn state vs Boston college bowl game in Yankee stadium a few years ago and that was awesome. No one seemed to mind the cold weather and it was a great atmosphere.
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Just wondering, if that's the case why more bowl games aren't played up north.
btw, I watch all the Bama games on tv, last game I went to Ray Perkins was the coach. I love my ac when its 115 degrees (heat index) in September. Y'all got the cold, we got the heat. Lets do a home and away during the regular season and leave the bowls like they are. If you aren't in the playoffs what do the other bowls mean, braggin' rights?
hey BS, we had this discussion last year or earlier this year. I will only say that the Teams up north play in enough "warm" locations at home during the season to appreciate what it's like. I understand why they play the Bowls where they do, so that the conditions are optimum for the finest play, but garnett does have a point about home-field advantage. the NFL is the worst case for it --- they place such a premium on home-field advantage with all the 12th man hype and "cold weather" Teams, only to take that away for the most important game of the season, the Super Bowl.
I am old enough to have witnessed important playoff games on frigid fields in terrible weather, pre-Super Bowl. THAT was Football at its finest!!!
I am only about 5 miles from the "shoe." On Dec 31st I think I would rather go to Phoenix to watch the Buckeyes and Clemson than just down the road.
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Ralph
There is some kind of irony at work here and it's almost a mathematical impossibility that Meyers has only won one Big Ten Championship. How is it possible that Meyer is 61-5 at OSU and has won exactly one Big Ten Championship Game? Even if you subtract his 12-0 season when OSU was ineligible to go to a bowl he is 49-5 and again only one Championship. What are the odds?Weird. Poetic justice?
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I hear you. I grew up in literally the shadows of Michigan Stadium. All aI ever wanted as a kid was to go to the Rose Bowl and the sun of California. I've sat in many of cold November games in that stadium and a game in January? No thanks.
I did go to the largest hockey game at U of M. I think 120,000 plus. I would never do it again.
So we have me complaining over the officiating at The Horse Shoe a couple of Saturday's ago. Me using Speights separated shoulder as a crutch. Keets always worried about the weather for OSU and garnettstyle crying about the weather last year against MSU and now he's whining about the Big Ten's Bowl schedule again? Us Big Ten guys sound a lot whimpy and full of excuses ; )
Clemson vs Ohio State would be played in South Carolina this year as Clemson is the higher seed if you really wanted to reward the higher seed.
FYI- that was not a first down.
Brick, I'm with you otherwise. It's why I now own a house in California. You are welcome anytime OSU goes back to the Rose Bowl. Tickets on me. You too Keets. Garnettsyle, my house isn't big enough for the two of us. I'm putting you up at a hotel.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
You are out of your mind. Michigan, OSU, Wisconsin, Iowa alum travel VERY well and love going to warm climates for Bowl games. Most Alums don't live in the state they graduated from. They have to travel regardless. Bowl games are a reward and a vacation for a good season ( for the players, fans and alum). I was at the Michigan- Texas Rose Bowl. We lost 38-37 in a heartbreaker but we all got over it in a minute as the event was SO amazing. You owe it to yourself to go to Bowl game if you haven't been in California, Arizona or Florida. People come for a week and make a vacation out of it. No one is coming to Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Ohio for a week in Late December or Januany. What are you going to do for a week? Besides, the Bowls are sponsored and depend on full hotels for five days or more.
I love winning as much as the next guy but you as placing too much importance on the equity of fairness of Bowl Games. You are looking at it from a fan only basis perhaps. Bowls are basically a celebration and award for the ALUM who support the University. It's cool as you have alum from all generations going. It's the best. A week long party with alum and fans from both schools. Amazing.
Disadvantage. Smisavantage.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I agree, Michigan beat Florida 41-7 last year in the State of Florida. As many Michigan fans there as Florida fans. I don't remember it being a disavantage.
I will say playing UCLA or USC In the Rose Bowl is a tough tough tough out. BUT, it makes it even sweeter when you do win there.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Heisman finalists announced
Deshaun Watson, Lamar Jackson, Jabrill Peppers, Baker Mayfield and Dede Westbrook.
Only Westbrook is a somewhat of a surprise
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I find it comical that mark and Larry are pretending to play stupid, in trying to pretend to act like home field advantage is not a huge advantage in college football. Nice try guys.
And mark get over it. The better team made the playoffs. Michigan will never recruit as good as urban Meyer.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
wowzer, Mark comes back with a vengeance after a brief hiatus!! where the heck were you??
Keets always worried about the weather for OSU
I hope this isn't revisionist posting on my part, but I don't think I really worried about the weather. what I said, or was trying to say, was that the rainy, windy weather affected OSU more than the opponents they were playing. Barrett is the kind of QB that needs optimal conditions to be really effective as a passer. that should mean he'll be OK out in the desert.
to your point of Meyer's record I will only say that those five losses all seemed to be to the wrong Team at exactly the right time. CFB is funny that way, they place importance on non-Conference games but ignore them in the overall record. it reminds me of the old days when the Big 10 Champion couldn't go to the Rose Bowl in consecutive years. that really gave an extra boost to the Ohio State/Michigan game and fueled the whole Woody and Bo rivalry.
Mark, can I stay at your place during Rose Bowl week even if I don't go to the game??
I was not suggesting there isn't some advantage. I just don't think it's such a big deal and it just sounds like you are making excuses. Plus these are for the most just exhibition games so does it really matter in life!? The Big 10 has come a long way in the last three years. Enjoy their success, win, lose, or draw. I dislike when people make excuses. I coached a lot of my kid's teams and I never blamed the refs, the field conditions, or any of that other stuff. I tried to instill in the kids to try to play their best and not get caught up in whining and making excuses about everything. You win some and you lose some.
Larry, try telling Mark all that about THE CALL.
I think I did. I suggested they just beat Iowa and then the call doesn't matter.
However, I do understand rivalry games are more important than exhibition games. Still not life and death of course.
Still, though, I think whining about the refs is one of the worst. We have a horrible problem with that here in Nor Cal. Our teams never seem to lose a game except for the refs bad calls. Without those bad calls every Nor Cal team would win every game. Ok, the Niners fans are not using that excuse this year.
Gotta agree with mark, that Michigan-Texas game at the Rose Bowl was an awesome party and a memorable game. More recently, we got to know the Iowa folks while Stanford was giving their squad a pounding. They were a hoot, but it was nice to see the absence of motor homes and minivans on the freeway shortly after the hoopla was done.
I find it comical that you ignore the facts about the essence of Bowl Games. You live in a bubble.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
And this is what Bowl games are about
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Actually the calls. The Call was a coin flip spot. I can live with it. I still have people coming up to me saying he didn't make the line. I'd like to not hear that actually.
He did not make the line
I had a show that that started the Sunday after the game and the curtain just lowered yesterday. My online activities needed to be prioritized. I'm heading backwards home to Cali and then on to the Orient which will give me a lot of down time so expect mad posts : )
Not a first down
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Larry - That was all well and good when bowl games were seen as nothing more than exhibition's, now bowl results influence perception of conferences. The BIG is considered the best conference this year but thanks to bowl tie-in have by far the most difficult bowl slate. Yet if the BIG fails to perform, when realistically they should only be favored in maybe 4 of their matchups, the media will harp on how over-rated the BIG was and is.
Not about the teams playing in the cold its about the bowl trip being a vacation for the fans. If you play a game in Chicago people will fly in and out and just go the game. They partner with cities in warm weather so people come in for the week and spend money. Big boost to the local economy.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
I know a lot of sports fans but there are few sports fans, at least out here, that care which conference wins the most bowl games. I think that may be more prevalent in your area of the country. It will get one mention on sports center and we move on. It just doesn't matter. Our worlds are different.
As for which is the best conference that's a different debate. I think overall most agree the Big 10 is best this year. Hard to argue with 4 teams in the top 10. However, I heard someone on sports radio suggesting that if you look at ratings that break it down by divisions of each conference it's not as clear cut. That is you have one great division and one horrible division. I don't have the time to investigate that but I am sure you can let me know how it looks.
Love the Pooley Hubert picture-thanks for posting it. And pointing out that Alabama football had a great tradition well before the arrival of the Bear.
One thing that makes college football special is that almost all schools can claim that they have had a great coach - and several schools have been blessed as having more than one and even more than a few. Seems that in looking so closely at what is happening at the present, the past seems to fade further away. And with that we loose a sense of the value of what came before us in terms of how we perceive greatness in sports.
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Good game between Army and Navy, great scene at games end.
Now, on to the bowl games.
Oh yeah, last game for Verne, I'll miss old Verne, one of the great ones.
Bullsitter,
Great photo -- absolutely going to miss Lundquist. Brad Nessler is announced as his replacement and that is a big step down. Still miss the days of Keith Jackson, especially when he was with Frank Broyles.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Disagree. Brad Nessler is a massive upgrade over Verne. Maybe not prime Verne but Verne lost a step 15 years ago and has regressed ever since. Constant mistakes of all varieties. I liked Verne back in the day but he simply isn't good anymore.