<< <i>Kind of off track: for those of you selling sets in unsealed boxes, do you attempt to remove your mailing address before you ship them to the buyer?
Thanks. >>
I have a policy for all the sealed sets that I buy and submit before the FS deadline. I send the inside-of-the-box invoice back to the seller with my check.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i>Kind of off track: for those of you selling sets in unsealed boxes, do you attempt to remove your mailing address before you ship them to the buyer?
Thanks. >>
I have a policy for all the sealed sets that I buy and submit before the FS deadline. I send the inside-of-the-box invoice back to the seller with my check. >>
if the whole set is submitted, I've never had pcgs return the invoice back.
all the info on the label is available via ebay if that is the platform of exchange.
I just leave them on, and don't expect anything back.
<< <i>I got my grades back on the sets I sent in, they SUCKED! 9 coins failed to grade with a minimum grade of 65 >>
How is that possible? Please elaborate!! >>
I sent in a handful of sets, put a minimum grade of 65, and 9 NG0 (no grades) as they would have graded 64 or below i suppose. I think I averaged about 15% 70's over all the coins, the 10c proof had the highest and the 10c RP had the lowest. >>
I would love to see some images of the 64-lower coins when they return. I'm no modern expert but that's really shocking.
I did submit some ATB 5ozers and got one 64 back I recall. It was fugly from some angles but I still thought it was better than a 64!
<< <i>I got my grades back on the sets I sent in, they SUCKED! 9 coins failed to grade with a minimum grade of 65 >>
How is that possible? Please elaborate!! >>
I sent in a handful of sets, put a minimum grade of 65, and 9 NG0 (no grades) as they would have graded 64 or below i suppose. I think I averaged about 15% 70's over all the coins, the 10c proof had the highest and the 10c RP had the lowest. >>
I would love to see some images of the 64-lower coins when they return. I'm no modern expert but that's really shocking.
I did submit some ATB 5ozers and got one 64 back I recall. It was fugly from some angles but I still thought it was better than a 64! >>
==================== Here are some of the 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy coins that I found to be "interestingly bad";
The S Mints - note stains on these two:
S Mint with heavy die polish
S Mint with pits on the right
Another spot at the Y:
Pits at right obv:
P Mint with big scratches at lips:
D-Mints with big pits:
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i> I sent in a handful of sets, put a minimum grade of 65, and 9 NG0 (no grades) as they would have graded 64 or below i suppose. >>
I don't know what a handful" of sets is but....kinda weird since of ALL the coins graded the lowest $1 grade was 68 (only three), PF dime zero below 69, and RP only one 67's and six 68's....how could your coins be lower quality than ALL the other coins graded and...not even close to those? I know the 70's are scarce but those above stats don't reflect over crappy quality...just not 70 quality
<< <i>if the whole set is submitted, I've never had pcgs return the invoice back. >>
When I have requested the return of the mint packaging I get the invoice along with the capsules and OGP otherwise I get zip....
...and re: that $425 PCGS set sold yesterday. I would also think it to be an outlier. There is usually no more than on 70 set for sale a day and to drop from $504/535 to $425 in 24 hours is suspect....or Monday sucks for selling stuff.... Let's see what tonight's sale closes at....
NGC had only two 70 set sales...$300 and $320 ($346 the previous day)
<< <i> I sent in a handful of sets, put a minimum grade of 65, and 9 NG0 (no grades) as they would have graded 64 or below i suppose. >>
I don't know what a handful" of sets is but....kinda weird since of ALL the coins graded the lowest $1 grade was 68 (only three), PF dime zero below 69, and RP only one 67's and six 68's....how could your coins be lower quality than ALL the other coins graded and...not even close to those? I know the 70's are scarce but those above stats don't reflect over crappy quality...just not 70 quality >>
People are putting "minimum grade", so the coins are appraised/graded by the graders and IF they are graded lower than that, they aren't encapsulated nor "graded" in the system. Sent back raw. That's why you aren't seeing these low grades....people have submitted with "min grades" on them so if they end up below that, they never get into the system.
I understand that...but 65 as a minimum???? So there are no 65's, 66's and 67's in the submission (and none in the POP...yes a few 67's in the POP) ?. They go right to 64 no slabs??? I really think not....I have never (and I bet MANY have never) put that low a minimum grade on a modern submission....nor have I EVER got that low a grade on ANY modern sets submitted without a minimum grade (all of mine)
Something does not compute.......and why would a 65/66/67 be an acceptable grade?
Are we assuming 100% of all modern set submissions to PCGS have minimum so low? If they do then there should be SOME 65/66's in the POP
I would think 69 or MAYBE 68 would be an acceptable minimum grade....not 65
<< <i>I was thinking of getting one of my two sets graded by PCGS. I don't want a membership since I'm only having this one item graded. I checked for authorized dealers to go through near Detroit and there doesn't appear to be any. Any suggestions? Thanks >>
I would suggest trying this guy Coins & Stamps, Inc. Richard Spieske 313-885-4200 Grosse Pointe City, MI, US
As far as being near Detroit, if you can drive, then this place is generally only 15 minutes from Detroit on Mack Ave, just a rock toss up the street from my office. >>
I called and was informed Richard Spieske had died 8 years ago. Mike said I can submit my coins through them. Thanks
Not sure if too many would have picked 68 or lower for their min grades, but in looking at the pop report it's probable/certain that at least some picked 70 as a min grade as I've talked to a few submitters of these coins and no one has reported getting anywhere close to 1/3 70s on the reverse proofs as the pop reports would seemingly indicated. All I spoke with were in the 10-20% range for reverse proof getting 70.
The only real explanation for that is for some to be submitting with a 70 min grade and having only their 70s added to the pop report with no 69s or lower added from their submission... thereby artificially bumping up the perceived percentages of 70s given out when looking at the pop report. In the long run, the pop reports should start to correct for that, but it may be too late for the First Strike pops to change much with the deadline coming this week. Sure sealed boxes will still be ok, but there are lots of sets out there that are no longer sealed!
<< <i>. . . it may be too late for the First Strike pops to change much with the deadline coming this week. Sure sealed boxes will still be ok, but there are lots of sets out there that are no longer sealed! >>
Looking at recent eBay sales, I'm not finding much if any premium for sealed sets vs. raw unsealed sets.
<< <i>. . . it may be too late for the First Strike pops to change much with the deadline coming this week. Sure sealed boxes will still be ok, but there are lots of sets out there that are no longer sealed! >>
Looking at recent eBay sales, I'm not finding much if any premium for sealed sets vs. raw unsealed sets. >>
Not right this moment, probably because you can still get First Strike on the dimes from raw unsealed sets. But once that changes in a couple of days, I would expect there to be at least a slight premium on sealed sets.
Anyone know how long it is taking PCGS to grade sealed sets? My sets were delivered on 5/12 checked in as received on 5/14, I submitted them under Moderns. It's been 6 0r 7 years since I submitted mint products for grading, just wondering what the best way to do this is. Thanks
<< <i>Anyone know how long it is taking PCGS to grade sealed sets? My sets were delivered on 5/12 checked in as received on 5/14, I submitted them under Moderns. It's been 6 0r 7 years since I submitted mint products for grading, just wondering what the best way to do this is. Thanks >>
modern is 30 days.
I got lucky and had grades in 3 weeks. They had a "mechanical error" to fix and will hopefully ship today after fixing it late last week.
they best way is just to hit refresh on your submission screen after 5pm pacific time. They'll be done when they are done since pcgs does not guarantee even the 30 day turnaround time.
<< <i>Bestday ... My couple of ebay listings are not intended to hit the market high (wherever that might turn out to be) or avoid the market low (which was likely $230/set) ...
I am a pretty big fan of the RP Dimes (personally) and I have no intention of giving those away as part of 3-pc 70 sets that fall through the cracks and sell below market. I have pretty much contended from the beginning that this is all about the RP dimes, although I am also a fan of the W dime as well. There are a lot more Roosie collectors out there than there are Rev Proof or W dimes in my opinion.
Wondercoin >>
Sorry Wondercoin . I am sure there was any intention by you , except to sell your items ..... I was looking to see message of multiple sets on the market saying there may be more out sets ready to hit market......... usually large numbers is a market top .
<< <i>NGC is ALWAYS late with their numbers..I even tried it by entering a cert number..."POP data unavailable" ....and I can never find the ANACS pop's >>
Hey there Gold bully... 4 listings of PCGS 70s on the bay right now .. take your pick .. $ 559 BIN , $ 600 , $ 579 bin or a 3 sets ... going unbid in an hour ....
Which one you taking Goldbully.????.... that is all there is ..with a 173 pop in Reverse Proof 70 ......pickings are slim to none
How quickly some fall away .....sorry folks..... I know how really scarce the PCGS Reverse Proofs 70s from coin club and my holding
Still a trading range .. with a new high in the PCGS 70s set ......making the next stop a 4 figure price handle
Look at back at my post to sell some sets .. all the NGC 70s went out the door .. Wondercoin is on the money.. PCGS is the spot to be for the Rev Proof 70 dime
Just 188 Rev Proofs in the 70 grade going into the final day of FS tomorrow.
My submission of (84) RP units yielded just (8) PR70's (9.5%!!) today.
Glad to hear raw open sets are fetching decent money because I will unfortunately have a TON of them!!
I will be raising my fixed prices for the sets on ebay personally while some of my esteemed colleagues continue to let the sets fly out the door at any price.
Wondercoin
edited to add ... perhaps I spoke too soon - ebay # 391162430501
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Just 188 Rev Proofs in the 70 grade going into the final day of FS tomorrow.
My submission of (84) RP units yielded just (8) PR70's (9.5%!!) today.
Glad to hear raw open sets are fetching decent money because I will unfortunately have a TON of them!!
I will be raising my fixed prices for the sets on ebay personally while some of my esteemed colleagues continue to let the sets fly out the door at any price.
Wondercoin
edited to add ... perhaps I spoke too soon - ebay # 391162430501 >>
This is why I don't buy open set late in the game.....
Comments
Thanks.
<< <i>Kind of off track: for those of you selling sets in unsealed boxes, do you attempt to remove your mailing address before you ship them to the buyer?
Thanks. >>
I have a policy for all the sealed sets that I buy and submit before the FS deadline. I send the inside-of-the-box invoice back to the seller with my check.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i>
<< <i>Kind of off track: for those of you selling sets in unsealed boxes, do you attempt to remove your mailing address before you ship them to the buyer?
Thanks. >>
I have a policy for all the sealed sets that I buy and submit before the FS deadline. I send the inside-of-the-box invoice back to the seller with my check. >>
if the whole set is submitted, I've never had pcgs return the invoice back.
all the info on the label is available via ebay if that is the platform of exchange.
I just leave them on, and don't expect anything back.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I got my grades back on the sets I sent in, they SUCKED! 9 coins failed to grade with a minimum grade of 65
How is that possible? Please elaborate!! >>
I sent in a handful of sets, put a minimum grade of 65, and 9 NG0 (no grades) as they would have graded 64 or below i suppose. I think I averaged about 15% 70's over all the coins, the 10c proof had the highest and the 10c RP had the lowest. >>
I would love to see some images of the 64-lower coins when they return. I'm no modern expert but that's really shocking.
I did submit some ATB 5ozers and got one 64 back I recall. It was fugly from some angles but I still thought it was better than a 64!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I got my grades back on the sets I sent in, they SUCKED! 9 coins failed to grade with a minimum grade of 65
How is that possible? Please elaborate!! >>
I sent in a handful of sets, put a minimum grade of 65, and 9 NG0 (no grades) as they would have graded 64 or below i suppose. I think I averaged about 15% 70's over all the coins, the 10c proof had the highest and the 10c RP had the lowest. >>
I would love to see some images of the 64-lower coins when they return. I'm no modern expert but that's really shocking.
I did submit some ATB 5ozers and got one 64 back I recall. It was fugly from some angles but I still thought it was better than a 64! >>
====================
Here are some of the 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy coins that I found to be "interestingly bad";
The S Mints - note stains on these two:
S Mint with heavy die polish
S Mint with pits on the right
Another spot at the Y:
Pits at right obv:
P Mint with big scratches at lips:
D-Mints with big pits:
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
The Reverse Proof is the star .. in PCGS , NGC
Buy the dips ..
<< <i>Surprised the MOD sets have not appeared on Great Collections
The Reverse Proof is the star .. in PCGS , NGC
Buy the dips .. >>
Me too
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i> I sent in a handful of sets, put a minimum grade of 65, and 9 NG0 (no grades) as they would have graded 64 or below i suppose. >>
I don't know what a handful" of sets is but....kinda weird since of ALL the coins graded the lowest $1 grade was 68 (only three), PF dime zero below 69, and RP only one 67's and six 68's....how could your coins be lower quality than ALL the other coins graded and...not even close to those? I know the 70's are scarce but those above stats don't reflect over crappy quality...just not 70 quality
<< <i>if the whole set is submitted, I've never had pcgs return the invoice back. >>
When I have requested the return of the mint packaging I get the invoice along with the capsules and OGP otherwise I get zip....
...and re: that $425 PCGS set sold yesterday. I would also think it to be an outlier. There is usually no more than on 70 set for sale a day and to drop from $504/535 to $425 in 24 hours is suspect....or Monday sucks for selling stuff.... Let's see what tonight's sale closes at....
NGC had only two 70 set sales...$300 and $320 ($346 the previous day)
<< <i>Is the June 4th PCGS 1st Strike cutoff .. a postmark deadline . or needs to be received at PCGS by June 4th ? >>
Mint ship date is the post mark deadline
<< <i>
<< <i> I sent in a handful of sets, put a minimum grade of 65, and 9 NG0 (no grades) as they would have graded 64 or below i suppose. >>
I don't know what a handful" of sets is but....kinda weird since of ALL the coins graded the lowest $1 grade was 68 (only three), PF dime zero below 69, and RP only one 67's and six 68's....how could your coins be lower quality than ALL the other coins graded and...not even close to those? I know the 70's are scarce but those above stats don't reflect over crappy quality...just not 70 quality
People are putting "minimum grade", so the coins are appraised/graded by the graders and IF they are graded lower than that, they aren't encapsulated nor "graded" in the system. Sent back raw. That's why you aren't seeing these low grades....people have submitted with "min grades" on them so if they end up below that, they never get into the system.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>People are putting "minimum grade", >>
I understand that...but 65 as a minimum???? So there are no 65's, 66's and 67's in the submission (and none in the POP...yes a few 67's in the POP) ?. They go right to 64 no slabs??? I really think not....I have never (and I bet MANY have never) put that low a minimum grade on a modern submission....nor have I EVER got that low a grade on ANY modern sets submitted without a minimum grade (all of mine)
Something does not compute.......and why would a 65/66/67 be an acceptable grade?
Are we assuming 100% of all modern set submissions to PCGS have minimum so low? If they do then there should be SOME 65/66's in the POP
I would think 69 or MAYBE 68 would be an acceptable minimum grade....not 65
<< <i>
<< <i>Is the June 4th PCGS 1st Strike cutoff .. a postmark deadline . or needs to be received at PCGS by June 4th ? >>
Mint ship date is the post mark deadline >>
I believe he is referring to opened sets. In those cases your coins must be postmarked to PCGS no later than June 4th.
<< <i>
<< <i>I was thinking of getting one of my two sets graded by PCGS. I don't want a membership since I'm only having this one item graded. I checked for authorized dealers to go through near Detroit and there doesn't appear to be any. Any suggestions? Thanks >>
I would suggest trying this guy Coins & Stamps, Inc. Richard Spieske 313-885-4200 Grosse Pointe City, MI, US
As far as being near Detroit, if you can drive, then this place is generally only 15 minutes from Detroit on Mack Ave, just a rock toss up the street from my office. >>
I called and was informed Richard Spieske had died 8 years ago. Mike said I can submit my coins through them. Thanks
The only real explanation for that is for some to be submitting with a 70 min grade and having only their 70s added to the pop report with no 69s or lower added from their submission... thereby artificially bumping up the perceived percentages of 70s given out when looking at the pop report. In the long run, the pop reports should start to correct for that, but it may be too late for the First Strike pops to change much with the deadline coming this week. Sure sealed boxes will still be ok, but there are lots of sets out there that are no longer sealed!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>. . . it may be too late for the First Strike pops to change much with the deadline coming this week. Sure sealed boxes will still be ok, but there are lots of sets out there that are no longer sealed! >>
Looking at recent eBay sales, I'm not finding much if any premium for sealed sets vs. raw unsealed sets.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>. . . it may be too late for the First Strike pops to change much with the deadline coming this week. Sure sealed boxes will still be ok, but there are lots of sets out there that are no longer sealed! >>
Looking at recent eBay sales, I'm not finding much if any premium for sealed sets vs. raw unsealed sets. >>
Not right this moment, probably because you can still get First Strike on the dimes from raw unsealed sets. But once that changes in a couple of days, I would expect there to be at least a slight premium on sealed sets.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
pcgs still has my "mechanical error" sub in house. Tomorrow at 8am they get a call.
<< <i>PCGS 70 set with 24 minutes left ... bid $499 >>
Hammer $514
Solid support, but is there more upside????
<< <i>
<< <i>PCGS 70 set with 24 minutes left ... bid $499 >>
Hammer $514
Solid support, but is there more upside???? >>
If the PCGS 70s set makes a new high ..... on ward to a 4 figures new high
<< <i>Hammer $514 >>
Note to self: Don't sell on a Monday
<< <i>Anyone know how long it is taking PCGS to grade sealed sets? My sets were delivered on 5/12 checked in as received on 5/14, I submitted them under Moderns. It's been 6 0r 7 years since I submitted mint products for grading, just wondering what the best way to do this is. Thanks >>
modern is 30 days.
I got lucky and had grades in 3 weeks. They had a "mechanical error" to fix and will hopefully ship today after fixing it late last week.
they best way is just to hit refresh on your submission screen after 5pm pacific time. They'll be done when they are done since pcgs does not guarantee even the 30 day turnaround time.
<< <i>anyone here have theirs back from grading yet? >>
Any one have the MOD pop numbers for NGC ... ANACS..ICG ?.. noticed Pinehurst has sold 99 NGC 70s sets on ebay
<< <i>Bestday ... My couple of ebay listings are not intended to hit the market high (wherever that might turn out to be) or avoid the market low (which was likely $230/set) ...
I am a pretty big fan of the RP Dimes (personally) and I have no intention of giving those away as part of 3-pc 70 sets that fall through the cracks and sell below market. I have pretty much contended from the beginning that this is all about the RP dimes, although I am also a fan of the W dime as well. There are a lot more Roosie collectors out there than there are Rev Proof or W dimes in my opinion.
Wondercoin >>
Sorry Wondercoin . I am sure there was any intention by you , except to sell your items ..... I was looking to see message of multiple sets on the market saying there may be more out sets ready to hit market......... usually large numbers is a market top .
<< <i>NGC is ALWAYS late with their numbers..I even tried it by entering a cert number..."POP data unavailable" ....and I can never find the ANACS pop's >>
NGC 70s set sold for 310.00... this morning
Turn around time was less than a week.
<< <i>The biggest seller of PCGS 70s sets on Ebay ....20 sets... ..is set to run out of 70s sets..... What will happen to prices ? >>
They ain't going up.
Well bestday?
<< <i>$440.08
Well bestday? >>
His eyes will fall out!
249.95 + 10.95
216 / 859 left! Act now!
<< <i>
<< <i>$440.08
Well bestday? >>
His eyes will fall out! >>
Eventually the "hype" runs out of juice.....hope he doesn't lose his eyes.
<< <i>Eventually the "hype" runs out of juice..... >>
Exactly.
<< <i>$440.08
Well bestday? >>
Hey there Gold bully... 4 listings of PCGS 70s on the bay right now .. take your pick .. $ 559 BIN , $ 600 , $ 579 bin or a 3 sets ... going unbid in an hour ....
Which one you taking Goldbully.????.... that is all there is ..with a 173 pop in Reverse Proof 70 ......pickings are slim to none
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>
<< <i>$440.08
Well bestday? >>
His eyes will fall out! >>
How quickly some fall away .....sorry folks..... I know how really scarce the PCGS Reverse Proofs 70s from coin club and my holding
Still a trading range .. with a new high in the PCGS 70s set ......making the next stop a 4 figure price handle
Look at back at my post to sell some sets .. all the NGC 70s went out the door .. Wondercoin is on the money.. PCGS is the spot to be for the Rev Proof 70 dime
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
My submission of (84) RP units yielded just (8) PR70's (9.5%!!) today.
Glad to hear raw open sets are fetching decent money because I will unfortunately have a TON of them!!
I will be raising my fixed prices for the sets on ebay personally while some of my esteemed colleagues continue to let the sets fly out the door at any price.
Wondercoin
edited to add ... perhaps I spoke too soon - ebay # 391162430501
<< <i>Just 188 Rev Proofs in the 70 grade going into the final day of FS tomorrow.
My submission of (84) RP units yielded just (8) PR70's (9.5%!!) today.
Glad to hear raw open sets are fetching decent money because I will unfortunately have a TON of them!!
I will be raising my fixed prices for the sets on ebay personally while some of my esteemed colleagues continue to let the sets fly out the door at any price.
Wondercoin
edited to add ... perhaps I spoke too soon - ebay # 391162430501 >>
This is why I don't buy open set late in the game.....
Hoard the keys.