The series will end next year and will probably end in obscurity much like the state quarter program did when it ended. Out of sight. Out of mind. I do have a complete collection of the presidential and spouse medal sets and there are probably more collectors of these than the spouse gold.
The liberty series and few of the spouses like Jackie, Eleanor R may hold on their own as one off collector coins. The 2015s and 2016s will probably be all low mintage coins. For a true rarity to appear it would have to be in the low 1ks which does not seem to be happening. I will keep my Eleanor R for now to see what happens, but once the series ends I believe there may be little interest in this coin too. Even the liberty raws have dropped in price recently. Some can be had a today's mint issue price for the other spouse gold.
<< <i>News flash? No one who owns an Eleanor is gonna be offering it to a dealer. Joke dealer bids are irrelevant where certain coins are concerned. >>
Is it just my imagination or is the numisuniverse headed down faster than a German plane headed to a surprise landing in the Alps
If this is the case then I'm going to be planning for some of those end of 2015 Hi-Relief Coins at 85% of melt value.
<< <i>Preliminary sale number just out ER uncirculated at 1887, appears my source is good >>
1887. Wow.
The Mint figures show 1909. This seems early for audited figures. Do you know how they come up with 1887 - not that that's much different than 1909 but just curious.
As others have noted, some of the 15 and 16 issues could be even lower.
Edited: According to Eric's book, p. 57, either number would make ER the 12th lowest mintage U.S. Mint State Type Coin in the last 200 years!!!
I think we all get that dealers aren't interested in spouses right now. But they have been before and they will be again. Just as a heads up their interest in spouses will mark an imminent top in the market.
Right now I think the bad taste of eating Gold Kennedys has ruined Dealers appetites for everything.
I got my Gold Eleanors and if necessary I'll chase another of the 2014's down. Looks like the low mintage will happen in one of the 2014 issues for sure.
<< <i>Right now I think the bad taste of eating Gold Kennedys has ruined Dealers appetites for everything.
I got my Gold Eleanors and if necessary I'll chase another of the 2014's down. Looks like the low mintage will happen in one of the 2014 issues for sure. >>
As MsM has noted, it would seem that 2015 and 2016 would have some contenders for the low mintage key as well:
2015
33 Elizabeth Truman 1945–1953 34 Mamie Eisenhower 1953–1961 35 Jacqueline Kennedy 1961–1963 36 Claudia Taylor "Lady Bird" Johnson 1963–1969
2016
37 Patricia Ryan "Pat" Nixon 1969–1974 38 Elizabeth Bloomer "Betty" Ford
Chasing the key, esp. in MS70FS is an expensive game.
I had hoped that I had it nailed down with my MS70FS Garfield. No such luck.
I may have to settle for having the key raw unless it's clear which one it will be before the MS70FS prices skyrocket.
In the end, I'll have one of each Liberty in OGP bought directly from the Mint, an Eleanor, a Jackie and whichever turns out to be the key, and perhaps a semi-key or two, likely raw.
In years to come, assuming that no other issues touch these super low mintages the key and semi keys may well be great to own. My kids will find out.
Yes, 1881 is the latest sale number and I expect that the sale number of Jacqueline's gold coin to be above 18810 in just a few month. At least a 10:1 ratio. Make me rethink Fama's efficient market hypothesis.
To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. -M. Friedman
<< <i>Yes, 1881 is the latest sale number and I expect that the sale number of Jacqueline's gold coin to be above 18810 in just a few month. At least a 10:1 ratio. Make me rethink Fama's efficient market hypothesis. >>
I expect the Jackie Coin to catch on fire like the Baseball $5 Gold was on fire. Looking for a sellout of the entire 30,000 mintage.
<< <i>Yes, 1881 is the latest sale number and I expect that the sale number of Jacqueline's gold coin to be above 18810 in just a few month. At least a 10:1 ratio. Make me rethink Fama's efficient market hypothesis. >>
In an efficient market, the Eleanor first spouse would still be on sale and the sales total for both proof and uncirculated would be higher. A combination of factors, many not market-related, restricted supply and drove up the price in the aftermarket.
I estimate that there are about 900-1000 2014 spouse gold coins left in Mint's inventory. So everyone with 700k can instantly corners the market. Yes, 700k, The scary fact is that many many software engineers in the Bay area or quants on WS are nowadays making 700k a year(with options and bonus).
To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. -M. Friedman
<< <i>Chasing the key, esp. in MS70FS is an expensive game.
I had hoped that I had it nailed down with my MS70FS Garfield. No such luck.
I may have to settle for having the key raw unless it's clear which one it will be before the MS70FS prices skyrocket.
In the end, I'll have one of each Liberty in OGP bought directly from the Mint, an Eleanor, a Jackie and whichever turns out to be the key, and perhaps a semi-key or two, likely raw.
In years to come, assuming that no other issues touch these super low mintages the key and semi keys may well be great to own. My kids will find out. >>
Thanks for sharing your story on these. I find it fascinating hearing how everyone interprets the series and its outcome. One thing that I would like to add to your commentary is that many of these (similar to the plats) will or have already been melted during the runup in gold (or next run up). What might seem to be the key now based on mintage might end up being unseated by one of the other coins in the series that had 10x the mintage. Never know what the surviving pop will be once the dust settles, the series is closed and matured.
Do we have confirmation from the mint the Eleanor's are indeed sold out? Maybe the mint is waiting for additional product packaging boxes to put the Eleanor's in
Someone else noted the inconsistency in the mint's weekly reporting. Lately the XLS spreadsheet numbers do not match up with the 'official' reports they put out every Tuesday. A couple weeks ago many of the '14 spouses experienced a sales surge--- according to the mint report--- that wasn't reported in the XLS spreadsheet. This surge also wasn't indicated in the "coins remaining" on their ordering page. It's likely, like Eleanor, there will be a downward numbers adjustment of the Hoover, Harding, Coolidge coins whenever they go off sale.
<< <i>Do we have confirmation from the mint the Eleanor's are indeed sold out? Maybe the mint is waiting for additional product packaging boxes to put the Eleanor's in >>
No, we do not. No First Spouse coins dated 2013 or 2014 are "sold out" according to the Mint's website.
While ER coins currently hold the lowest mintage figures, this status is likely temporary given the numbers of the other 2014-dated coins.
... which makes this thread's whole conversation speculative, at best.
<< <i>Someone else noted the inconsistency in the mint's weekly reporting. Lately the XLS spreadsheet numbers do not match up with the 'official' reports they put out every Tuesday. A couple weeks ago many of the '14 spouses experienced a sales surge--- according to the mint report--- that wasn't reported in the XLS spreadsheet. This surge also wasn't indicated in the "coins remaining" on their ordering page. It's likely, like Eleanor, there will be a downward numbers adjustment of the Hoover, Harding, Coolidge coins whenever they go off sale. >>
In the public world there are people that chase out the figures with all the returns and unsaleables
In the past these numbers were lower than mint publicized numbers.
I haven't compared the xls numbers to the numismatic press. I would not be surprised to see lower numbers mentioned "around" than on even the xls or numismatic media.
<< <i>Eleanor R gold spouse was taken off mint's the web site, so probably sold out. >>
Indeed. Looks like 1886 is the final sales number. Wonder whether the audit will be up or down. Either way, looks like the new key at least for a while.
Interesting that it never was listed as "Sold Out" just taken down.
The only Uncs currently lower than Eleanor are Harding, Coolidge and Hoover.
There would seem me be a number of strong low mintage contenders coming up this year and next to unseat Eleanor. Being that I have a photo of my Grandmother with Eleanor I'll keep that one no matter what.
<< <i>Eleanor R gold spouse was taken off mint's the web site, so probably sold out. >>
This is a very interesting development. Now we know that some US Mint coins could go from out-of-stock to soldout-and-completely-disappeared within a few hours/ WOW...
To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. -M. Friedman
Edith Roosevelt Proof 4 left Harding proof about 40 left Grace Coolidge proof about 85 left
It seems that all 2014 proof spouse will sell out in the next few weeks. If this is the case, the mint will produce more 2015 coins. Has the tide turned?
To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. -M. Friedman
<< <i>It seems that all 2014 proof spouse will sell out in the next few weeks. If this is the case, the mint will produce more 2015 coins. Has the tide turned? >>
The Mint will likely produce more 2015 coins anyway, since the recent first ladies (especially Jackie Kennedy) are more recognized and popular than the previous ones.
<< <i>Edith Roosevelt Proof 4 left Harding proof about 40 left Grace Coolidge proof about 85 left
It seems that all 2014 proof spouse will sell out in the next few weeks. If this is the case, the mint will produce more 2015 coins. Has the tide turned? >>
Any update on how many is left?
Roosevelt now sold out and not showing up on mints site.
I purchased a few Eleanor Roosevelts when they first went up for sale, got them graded at PCGS. But all came back MS69 However I landed MS70`s on all three remaining 2014 Spouses. I Hope one of them unseat Eleanor.
<< <i>Edith Roosevelt Proof 4 left Harding proof about 40 left Grace Coolidge proof about 85 left
It seems that all 2014 proof spouse will sell out in the next few weeks. If this is the case, the mint will produce more 2015 coins. Has the tide turned? >>
Any update on how many is left?
Roosevelt now sold out and not showing up on minyt?ts site. >>
3 , 44, 92
Just checked those numbers. It seems there were returns. Probably someone wanting to get them at the lower price.
Eleanor Roosevelt Gold coins are now really hot on bay. Several raw went for 1200-1300. A NGC MS 70 was just sold for 2200 (according to mint blog, I haven't found the lisitng yet)?
To the free man, the country is the collection of individuals who compose it, not something over and above them. -M. Friedman
<< <i>Eleanor Roosevelt Gold coins are now really hot on bay. Several raw went for 1200-1300. A NGC MS 70 was just sold for 2200 (according to mint blog, I haven't found the lisitng yet)? >>
If the collectors of First Spouse $10 gold really want to increase interest, all of you need to band together and boycott one of the upcoming issues. If the final number drops below 1,000 you will have a legitimate scarcity on your hands, if it drops below 500 you have a rarity. None of you will own one, of course, but interest would skyrocket for the entire series!
<< <i>If the collectors of First Spouse $10 gold really want to increase interest, all of you need to band together and boycott one of the upcoming issues. If the final number drops below 1,000 you will have a legitimate scarcity on your hands, if it drops below 500 you have a rarity. None of you will own one, of course, but interest would skyrocket for the entire series!
Or not.... >>
Time is on our side. We just have to wait for 75% of these to get melted as frusterated owners dump them in local B&M coin stores and pawn shops.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
Numismatics in general is going the way of the Pogues Collection.
The First Spouse series is even less loved than the Gold Kennedy. Forget it. Nothing can be done for the Spouses. Put them in a nursing home and let time perform its own cure.
<< <i>More than 1900 Bess Truman gold coins were sold within one week. Yes, the tide has turned. >>
This is very interesting. Im working on some sales analysis on the FS series and look forward to seeing how this first week of sales compares to any first week for the other FS already offered.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I was told earlier today that the final sales number of ER uncirculated gold is about 1880. Holy cow..... >>
I hope that was a good source. I'll be sitting on my small hoard of 1 opened and 9 sealed, as if they are the Crown Jewels.
For now.
Check the Hoover, Coolidge, and Harding numbers.
I think the Christmas sales did a lot of damage to sets and demand.
This thread seems to be stuck. What up ?
The liberty series and few of the spouses like Jackie, Eleanor R may hold on their own as one off collector coins. The 2015s and 2016s will probably be all low mintage coins. For a true rarity to appear it would have to be in the low 1ks which does not seem to be happening. I will keep my Eleanor R for now to see what happens, but once the series ends I believe there may be little interest in this coin too. Even the liberty raws have dropped in price recently. Some can be had a today's mint issue price for the other spouse gold.
Box of 20
<< <i>News flash? No one who owns an Eleanor is gonna be offering it to a dealer. Joke dealer bids are irrelevant where certain coins are concerned. >>
Is it just my imagination or is the numisuniverse headed down faster than a German plane headed to a surprise landing in the Alps
If this is the case then I'm going to be planning for some of those end of 2015 Hi-Relief Coins at 85% of melt value.
<< <i>Preliminary sale number just out ER uncirculated at 1887, appears my source is good
1887. Wow.
The Mint figures show 1909. This seems early for audited figures. Do you know how they come up with 1887 - not that that's much different than 1909 but just curious.
As others have noted, some of the 15 and 16 issues could be even lower.
Edited: According to Eric's book, p. 57, either number would make ER the 12th lowest mintage U.S. Mint State Type Coin in the last 200 years!!!
I got my Gold Eleanors and if necessary I'll chase another of the 2014's down. Looks like the low mintage will
happen in one of the 2014 issues for sure.
<< <i>Right now I think the bad taste of eating Gold Kennedys has ruined Dealers appetites for everything.
I got my Gold Eleanors and if necessary I'll chase another of the 2014's down. Looks like the low mintage will
happen in one of the 2014 issues for sure. >>
As MsM has noted, it would seem that 2015 and 2016 would have some contenders for the low mintage key as well:
2015
33 Elizabeth Truman 1945–1953
34 Mamie Eisenhower 1953–1961
35 Jacqueline Kennedy 1961–1963
36 Claudia Taylor "Lady Bird" Johnson 1963–1969
2016
37 Patricia Ryan "Pat" Nixon 1969–1974
38 Elizabeth Bloomer "Betty" Ford
Chasing the key, esp. in MS70FS is an expensive game.
I had hoped that I had it nailed down with my MS70FS Garfield. No such luck.
I may have to settle for having the key raw unless it's clear which one it will be before the MS70FS prices skyrocket.
In the end, I'll have one of each Liberty in OGP bought directly from the Mint, an Eleanor, a Jackie and whichever turns out to be the key, and perhaps a semi-key or two, likely raw.
In years to come, assuming that no other issues touch these super low mintages the key and semi keys may well be great to own. My kids will find out.
<< <i>Yes, 1881 is the latest sale number and I expect that the sale number of Jacqueline's gold coin to be above 18810 in just a few month. At least a 10:1 ratio. Make me rethink Fama's efficient market hypothesis. >>
I expect the Jackie Coin to catch on fire like the Baseball $5 Gold was on fire. Looking for a sellout of the entire 30,000
mintage.
<< <i>Yes, 1881 is the latest sale number and I expect that the sale number of Jacqueline's gold coin to be above 18810 in just a few month. At least a 10:1 ratio. Make me rethink Fama's efficient market hypothesis. >>
In an efficient market, the Eleanor first spouse would still be on sale and the sales total for both proof and uncirculated would be higher. A combination of factors, many not market-related, restricted supply and drove up the price in the aftermarket.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>What is the low mintage First spouse Proof right now? is it also Eleanor! >>
Proof Eleanor by a longshot, too.
<< <i>Chasing the key, esp. in MS70FS is an expensive game.
I had hoped that I had it nailed down with my MS70FS Garfield. No such luck.
I may have to settle for having the key raw unless it's clear which one it will be before the MS70FS prices skyrocket.
In the end, I'll have one of each Liberty in OGP bought directly from the Mint, an Eleanor, a Jackie and whichever turns out to be the key, and perhaps a semi-key or two, likely raw.
In years to come, assuming that no other issues touch these super low mintages the key and semi keys may well be great to own. My kids will find out. >>
Thanks for sharing your story on these. I find it fascinating hearing how everyone interprets the series and its outcome. One thing that I would like to add to your commentary is that many of these (similar to the plats) will or have already been melted during the runup in gold (or next run up). What might seem to be the key now based on mintage might end up being unseated by one of the other coins in the series that had 10x the mintage. Never know what the surviving pop will be once the dust settles, the series is closed and matured.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
Do we have confirmation from the mint the Eleanor's are indeed sold out? Maybe the mint is waiting for additional product packaging boxes to put the Eleanor's in
Box of 20
Their kids need braces and educations after all.
<< <i>Do we have confirmation from the mint the Eleanor's are indeed sold out? Maybe the mint is waiting for additional product packaging boxes to put the Eleanor's in >>
No, we do not. No First Spouse coins dated 2013 or 2014 are "sold out" according to the Mint's website.
While ER coins currently hold the lowest mintage figures, this status is likely temporary given the numbers of the other 2014-dated coins.
... which makes this thread's whole conversation speculative, at best.
<< <i>Someone else noted the inconsistency in the mint's weekly reporting. Lately the XLS spreadsheet numbers do not match up with the 'official' reports they put out every Tuesday. A couple weeks ago many of the '14 spouses experienced a sales surge--- according to the mint report--- that wasn't reported in the XLS spreadsheet. This surge also wasn't indicated in the "coins remaining" on their ordering page. It's likely, like Eleanor, there will be a downward numbers adjustment of the Hoover, Harding, Coolidge coins whenever they go off sale. >>
In the public world there are people that chase out the figures with all the returns and unsaleables
In the past these numbers were lower than mint publicized numbers.
I haven't compared the xls numbers to the numismatic press. I would not be surprised to see lower numbers mentioned "around" than on even the xls or numismatic media.
Box of 20
<< <i>Eleanor R gold spouse was taken off mint's the web site, so probably sold out. >>
Indeed. Looks like 1886 is the final sales number. Wonder whether the audit will be up or down. Either way, looks like the new key at least for a while.
Interesting that it never was listed as "Sold Out" just taken down.
The only Uncs currently lower than Eleanor are Harding, Coolidge and Hoover.
There would seem me be a number of strong low mintage contenders coming up this year and next to unseat Eleanor. Being that I have a photo of my Grandmother with Eleanor I'll keep that one no matter what.
<< <i>Eleanor R gold spouse was taken off mint's the web site, so probably sold out. >>
This is a very interesting development. Now we know that some US Mint coins could go from out-of-stock to soldout-and-completely-disappeared within a few hours/ WOW...
Harding proof about 40 left
Grace Coolidge proof about 85 left
It seems that all 2014 proof spouse will sell out in the next few weeks. If this is the case, the mint will produce more 2015 coins. Has the tide turned?
<< <i>It seems that all 2014 proof spouse will sell out in the next few weeks. If this is the case, the mint will produce more 2015 coins. Has the tide turned? >>
The Mint will likely produce more 2015 coins anyway, since the recent first ladies (especially Jackie Kennedy) are more recognized and popular than the previous ones.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Edith Roosevelt Proof 4 left
Harding proof about 40 left
Grace Coolidge proof about 85 left
It seems that all 2014 proof spouse will sell out in the next few weeks. If this is the case, the mint will produce more 2015 coins. Has the tide turned? >>
Any update on how many is left?
Roosevelt now sold out and not showing up on mints site.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
got them graded at PCGS. But all came back MS69
However I landed MS70`s on all three remaining 2014 Spouses.
I Hope one of them unseat Eleanor.
<< <i>
<< <i>Edith Roosevelt Proof 4 left
Harding proof about 40 left
Grace Coolidge proof about 85 left
It seems that all 2014 proof spouse will sell out in the next few weeks. If this is the case, the mint will produce more 2015 coins. Has the tide turned? >>
Any update on how many is left?
Roosevelt now sold out and not showing up on minyt?ts site. >>
3 , 44, 92
Just checked those numbers. It seems there were returns. Probably someone wanting to get them at the lower price.
<< <i>
Any update on how many is left?
Roosevelt now sold out and not showing up on minyt?ts site.
3 , 44, 92
Just checked those numbers. It seems there were returns. Probably someone wanting to get them at the lower price. >>
Thanks!
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i>Eleanor Roosevelt Gold coins are now really hot on bay. Several raw went for 1200-1300. A NGC MS 70 was just sold for 2200 (according to mint blog, I haven't found the lisitng yet)? >>
So glad that I sent three back
43 - Florence Harding Proofs
90 - Grace Coolidge Proofs
These are rather slow crock pot type items
Updated 9:05 PM 4-18-15
2 - Edith
42 - Florence
91 - Grace
<< <i>Edith Roosevelt Proof is just sold out. Harding and Coolidge proofs will soon follow suit. The tide has turned. >>
Sure enough the Edith Proofs are POOF
Edith Roosevelt. - 0
Florence Harding - 40
Grace Coolidge. - 89
one of the upcoming issues. If the final number drops below 1,000 you will have a legitimate scarcity on your hands,
if it drops below 500 you have a rarity. None of you will own one, of course, but interest would skyrocket for the entire
series!
Or not....
<< <i>If the collectors of First Spouse $10 gold really want to increase interest, all of you need to band together and boycott
one of the upcoming issues. If the final number drops below 1,000 you will have a legitimate scarcity on your hands,
if it drops below 500 you have a rarity. None of you will own one, of course, but interest would skyrocket for the entire
series!
Or not....
Time is on our side.
The First Spouse series is even less loved than the Gold Kennedy. Forget it. Nothing can be done for the Spouses.
Put them in a nursing home and let time perform its own cure.
Grace Coolidge. - 84
More than 1900 Bess Truman gold coins were sold within one week. Yes, the tide has turned.
<< <i>
<< <i>Edith Roosevelt Proof is just sold out. Harding and Coolidge proofs will soon follow suit. The tide has turned. >>
Sure enough the Edith Proofs are POOF
Edith Roosevelt. - 0
Florence Harding - 40
Grace Coolidge. - 89 >>
83 - Grace Coolidge Proofs left
Somebody call 911 - Spouses are on Fire !
*** 4-23-15. 7:50 PM ***
31 - Florence Harding
81 - Grace Coolidge
<< <i>More than 1900 Bess Truman gold coins were sold within one week. Yes, the tide has turned. >>
This is very interesting. Im working on some sales analysis on the FS series and look forward to seeing how this first week of sales compares to any first week for the other FS already offered.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
Florence - 33
Grace. - 82