I think, like most varieties, there are alot more of these out there hiding in plain sight. Obviously, attrition has taken its toll on a lot of junk 90% silver over the years. But this search goes to show that they're out there.
I certainly wouldn't be spending $1500 on an AG example, but that's me.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Over on Coin Talk the gentleman who searched the hoard was kind enough to share with us the information that the hoard was examined in "the Deep South." This might suggest that a significant portion of the original mintage of the variety was released in the South, though between 1919 and the disappearance of silver in the mid-1960's any coin could have traveled anywhere.
Have you been keeping track of where pieces have been reported from?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
It would be interesting, but I have to believe that unless the hoard stayed put after its initial release we can glean little if any info from its current location. These are all worn down to AG which means they stayed out there circulating for decades.
I think it's more about the quantity of 1919 Phillies that were searched and less about geography.
Still interesting to ponder
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
@StrikeOutXXX said:
The XF40 got an upgrade
The XF45 got a regrade
The AU50 got a downgrade
The NGC AU Details - Environmental Damage got a straight grade
stuff like that just confirms JUST how skewed the pops probably are.
you gotta figure most aren't subbing the certs to have the old ones removed. cest la vie, right?
I messaged the seller for more details. I'm away from my photo library, but of the ones I can rule out from work, it's not the XF40, the other XF45 or the AU50. Have to double-check the AU Details one, but I'm thinking it's going to be coin #48 in the census as a new discovery. At least the last year has had a few higher grade examples show up!
I compared it to the pictures of coin #2 that Bill FIvaz sent me, and I am sure they are not the same coin.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
stuff like that just confirms JUST how skewed the pops probably are.
It is actually worse now. When I sent in coins for re-grades recently, the old certs are not removed. They always did this in the past.
I have a few varieties in my series that still have coins that were re-graded. I am waiting to see if the older cert is ever retired.
may not have been a bad idea all this time to take pics with our camera phones for more important certs that were cracked, that way proof will exist that coins need removed still. i haven't done that much crackin' in a decade plus or i probably would've been taking pics.
The seller of the new PCGS XF-45 coin owns a coin shop in Wisconsin. If he doesn’t get back to you strike, let me know I think I have his cell number somewhere.
Update - coin is new, found by Spotlight Coins, a dealer in Oostburg, WI. Had it graded at the FUN show per a message from him.
The seller replied to me, new discovery came in in an old-time collection at his shop. Tied for 2nd finest straight graded coin currently. Has been added as coin 48 in the census.
@StrikeOutXXX said:
The seller replied to me, new discovery came in in an old-time collection at his shop. Tied for 2nd finest straight graded coin currently. Has been added as coin 48 in the census.
i am a BIIIIIG fan of owner/operated businesses and while big businesses have their place, seeing the small mom & pop shops catch windfalls like this really puts a smile on my face. <-- see
i hope when they get them, the use them wisely to ensure their longevity. the internet is nice but doing business face-to-face has always been my favorite. (which is how the buyer was able to find this amazing ddo)
@StrikeOutXXX said:
The seller replied to me, new discovery came in in an old-time collection at his shop. Tied for 2nd finest straight graded coin currently. Has been added as coin 48 in the census.
i am a BIIIIIG fan of owner/operated businesses and while big businesses have their place, seeing the small mom & pop shops catch windfalls like this really puts a smile on my face. <-- see
i hope when they get them, the use them wisely to ensure their longevity. the internet is nice but doing business face-to-face has always been my favorite. (which is how the buyer was able to find this amazing ddo)
I don't disagree with your assessment (I am a fan of the "little guy" too), but did the "mom and pop" buy it as a rip at the expense of the original owner/their heirs or was it part of a large collection discovered after the fact? I obviously have no idea and don't want to besmirch the integrity of anyone. However, the circumstances involved would definitely alter my opinion of whom the "little guy" in this scenario happened to be.
@StrikeOutXXX said:
The seller replied to me, new discovery came in in an old-time collection at his shop. Tied for 2nd finest straight graded coin currently. Has been added as coin 48 in the census.
i am a BIIIIIG fan of owner/operated businesses and while big businesses have their place, seeing the small mom & pop shops catch windfalls like this really puts a smile on my face. <-- see
i hope when they get them, the use them wisely to ensure their longevity. the internet is nice but doing business face-to-face has always been my favorite. (which is how the buyer was able to find this amazing ddo)
I don't disagree with your assessment (I am a fan of the "little guy" too), but did the "mom and pop" buy it as a rip at the expense of the original owner/their heirs or was it part of a large collection discovered after the fact? I obviously have no idea and don't want to besmirch the integrity of anyone. However, the circumstances involved would definitely alter my opinion of whom the "little guy" in this scenario happened to be.
ya, that is a fairly regular nuance discussed here.
i posit one alternative(s), as i've done it on several occasions.
item(s) are purchased for one reason or another, not looked at terribly closely whether i'm offering a price or the seller is (99% of the time) and i get home, i look something over and find it is a better marriage, perhaps an unidentefied proof, variety etc and becomes a lot more valuable because of it but perhaps submission to a tpg is partly required to realize said value based on how/if it grades and/or attributes. etc
sometimes a person(s) may not know necessarily whom an item(s) came from in a shop if they are buying a lot.
of course, it is plausible someone just bought it as a rip or something in-between. tough to say.
@StrikeOutXXX said:
The seller replied to me, new discovery came in in an old-time collection at his shop. Tied for 2nd finest straight graded coin currently. Has been added as coin 48 in the census.
i am a BIIIIIG fan of owner/operated businesses and while big businesses have their place, seeing the small mom & pop shops catch windfalls like this really puts a smile on my face. <-- see
i hope when they get them, the use them wisely to ensure their longevity. the internet is nice but doing business face-to-face has always been my favorite. (which is how the buyer was able to find this amazing ddo)
I don't disagree with your assessment (I am a fan of the "little guy" too), but did the "mom and pop" buy it as a rip at the expense of the original owner/their heirs or was it part of a large collection discovered after the fact? I obviously have no idea and don't want to besmirch the integrity of anyone. However, the circumstances involved would definitely alter my opinion of whom the "little guy" in this scenario happened to be.
ya, that is a fairly regular nuance discussed here.
i posit one alternative(s), as i've done it on several occasions.
item(s) are purchased for one reason or another, not looked at terribly closely whether i'm offering a price or the seller is (99% of the time) and i get home, i look something over and find it is a better marriage, perhaps an unidentefied proof, variety etc and becomes a lot more valuable because of it but perhaps submission to a tpg is partly required to realize said value based on how/if it grades and/or attributes. etc
sometimes a person(s) may not know necessarily whom an item(s) came from in a shop if they are buying a lot.
of course, it is plausible someone just bought it as a rip or something in-between. tough to say.
I agree and I addressed both possible scenarios in my reply.
There lies the conundrum, who was the "little guy" in this situation.
Is there anybody here from CONECA that can get this edited? I see that my first two paragraphs are somehow duplicated.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Too bad that the all-important IN GOD WE TRUST appears to be damaged as well.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@kuwegg57 said:
Will the 1919 be the "Star" of the newest issue of the Cherrypickers Guide?
It’s on the cover but with it being such old news I can’t see it driving much additional interest beyond what it has already done over many years. For those living under a rock, maybe?
Good lord, those are some strong prices for lowball coins.
Really speaks to the popularity of the variety. Doesn't seem to be trailing off as more are found.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
@DCW said:
Good lord, those are some strong prices for lowball coins.
Really speaks to the popularity of the variety. Doesn't seem to be trailing off as more are found.
No, the prices have stayed fairly constant in the 8 years. There was a very slight lull on the AG-3 pieces early on, I think many were waiting for higher grades, but as very few higher ones show up, folks who truly want one are having to settle and pay solid prices for the FR, AG, Good ones.
There is a piece on eBay straight graded as Good-4 but it has severe tooling on the Y of LIBERTY. Can't pick it out of the census but might be one of the Good-4's listed there.
Seems to have some sort of unofficial Buy It Now at bottom of listing at $1797
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Hmmmmm.....all of that seller's listings have disappeared. I had bid on a couple of them just as placeholders, and I got a notice from eBay that one of them was no longer available because of a problem with the seller's account. Now, that may have been the back door Buy It Now he was offering down in the description to avoid paying fees. Ebay would definitely consider that to be a problem!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@StrikeOutXXX said:
It is 51 in the census, last sold a year ago on eBay.
51) PCGS G4 - eBay 6/2023 seller jjcoin - Sold 7/31/23 (eBay $2,995 Buy It Now)
Cert: 545047.04/46140106
Stage A
You might want to add a comment to the listing for #51 there there is heavy tooling at the Y of LIBERTY.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Hard to believe it's been over nine years since you discovered this variety.
And still no Mint State specimen!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@TypeCoin971793 said:
Found one more. This is the sixth I’ve found, and the seventh I’ve handled
This one will be coin 54 in the census. I'll call it a raw AG for now. I think you've passed KearneyCC who had found several in past years to become the new 1919 DDO Eagle Eye.
There is also a new PCGS F15 in their census (now coin 53) - anyone have info on that one?
Comments
That guy is on fire - found a 4th (#47 in census) - another AG Stage B. There were several 1919's mixed in with this hoard's 1917 pile.
Great job TypeCoin971793!
I think KearneyCC found 4 or 5 at separate times, nobody has found 4 in one go that I know of.
If they all straight grade, they are worth somewhere around $1500 each - not bad for a day or two of searching.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
I think, like most varieties, there are alot more of these out there hiding in plain sight. Obviously, attrition has taken its toll on a lot of junk 90% silver over the years. But this search goes to show that they're out there.
I certainly wouldn't be spending $1500 on an AG example, but that's me.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Over on Coin Talk the gentleman who searched the hoard was kind enough to share with us the information that the hoard was examined in "the Deep South." This might suggest that a significant portion of the original mintage of the variety was released in the South, though between 1919 and the disappearance of silver in the mid-1960's any coin could have traveled anywhere.
Have you been keeping track of where pieces have been reported from?
@CaptHenway
It would be interesting, but I have to believe that unless the hoard stayed put after its initial release we can glean little if any info from its current location. These are all worn down to AG which means they stayed out there circulating for decades.
I think it's more about the quantity of 1919 Phillies that were searched and less about geography.
Still interesting to ponder
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
This discovery has been an interesting story to follow.
This one was just graded this week, guessing it is one of the previous known examples.
https://pcgs.com/cert/46366277
XF45
Wonder why no true view?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
It was just graded, the trueview will follow in a week or so.
@dbldie55 I'll have to wait for the truview and compare images. There are really only 4 chances for it to be a previously known one.
The XF40 got an upgrade
The XF45 got a regrade
The AU50 got a downgrade
The NGC AU Details - Environmental Damage got a straight grade
Nothing else out there that would be close to a PCGS 45 besides those 4. Might actually be a new discovery. Will wait for pictures.
(Anybody have any details on this newly graded XF45?)
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
stuff like that just confirms JUST how skewed the pops probably are.
you gotta figure most aren't subbing the certs to have the old ones removed. cest la vie, right?
thanks for your work and updates though!!!
Not mine.
https://ebay.com/itm/134409357131?hash=item1f4b6c074b:g:xSYAAOSw7fVjvx4Q&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4HaSYhjRty2pdIorwav3Ph2SnMEd8ZMNXK0gXS8U7w5wtzffcA8QA5LiiB2pKsyzbtWweBc%2B3GPmr74UWe0pNjJWOQS5yLqj5g06Jr2y7EREyuXcBeTyx8PHnPkTyIj6U0NO2fL9aAlbR3GY%2BFEajf10MGuGRgc6JElRN%2F%2Fl3%2BWpg%2B8t6zzoRBTkYFzcrImI6PpYvGaqbeyunbyrMHgF8hcFaJRZ28edfic%2FqviKtTDnNWV8r2frsvKU5ilbpXjzfwGfGOYA86hV7Njj%2Br5vRHqWSll95xIohbNgeoCveX2d%7Ctkp%3ABFBM2LLBw7Rh
https://greatcollections.com/Collections/1120/The-Keyman64-Mercury-Dime-Collection/2024-07-07
I messaged the seller for more details. I'm away from my photo library, but of the ones I can rule out from work, it's not the XF40, the other XF45 or the AU50. Have to double-check the AU Details one, but I'm thinking it's going to be coin #48 in the census as a new discovery. At least the last year has had a few higher grade examples show up!
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
I compared it to the pictures of coin #2 that Bill FIvaz sent me, and I am sure they are not the same coin.
It is actually worse now. When I sent in coins for re-grades recently, the old certs are not removed. They always did this in the past.
I have a few varieties in my series that still have coins that were re-graded. I am waiting to see if the older cert is ever retired.
may not have been a bad idea all this time to take pics with our camera phones for more important certs that were cracked, that way proof will exist that coins need removed still. i haven't done that much crackin' in a decade plus or i probably would've been taking pics.
The seller of the new PCGS XF-45 coin owns a coin shop in Wisconsin. If he doesn’t get back to you strike, let me know I think I have his cell number somewhere.
Update - coin is new, found by Spotlight Coins, a dealer in Oostburg, WI. Had it graded at the FUN show per a message from him.
The seller replied to me, new discovery came in in an old-time collection at his shop. Tied for 2nd finest straight graded coin currently. Has been added as coin 48 in the census.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
i am a BIIIIIG fan of owner/operated businesses and while big businesses have their place, seeing the small mom & pop shops catch windfalls like this really puts a smile on my face.
i hope when they get them, the use them wisely to ensure their longevity. the internet is nice but doing business face-to-face has always been my favorite. (which is how the buyer was able to find this amazing ddo)
I don't disagree with your assessment (I am a fan of the "little guy" too), but did the "mom and pop" buy it as a rip at the expense of the original owner/their heirs or was it part of a large collection discovered after the fact? I obviously have no idea and don't want to besmirch the integrity of anyone. However, the circumstances involved would definitely alter my opinion of whom the "little guy" in this scenario happened to be.
Philippians 4:4-7
This variety is out there. One day, I'm sure an uncirculated example will rear its beautiful head.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
ya, that is a fairly regular nuance discussed here.
i posit one alternative(s), as i've done it on several occasions.
item(s) are purchased for one reason or another, not looked at terribly closely whether i'm offering a price or the seller is (99% of the time) and i get home, i look something over and find it is a better marriage, perhaps an unidentefied proof, variety etc and becomes a lot more valuable because of it but perhaps submission to a tpg is partly required to realize said value based on how/if it grades and/or attributes. etc
sometimes a person(s) may not know necessarily whom an item(s) came from in a shop if they are buying a lot.
of course, it is plausible someone just bought it as a rip or something in-between. tough to say.
I agree and I addressed both possible scenarios in my reply.
There lies the conundrum, who was the "little guy" in this situation.
Philippians 4:4-7
Trueview is up now: https://pcgs.com/cert/46366277
Found the coin in https://pcgs.com/shared-orders/order-details/23018131
That's a beaut!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Nice and crusty.
If there is an unc out there, and that none have surfaced since discovery, my WAG-price is $50k - $75k.
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
don't know if it has been posted but some nice technical info for this elusive and belatedly discovered ddo:
https://conecaonline.org/major-doubled-die-error-found-on-1919-mercury-dime/
Is there anybody here from CONECA that can get this edited? I see that my first two paragraphs are somehow duplicated.
TD
A damaged specimen (#14) on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204267503388?hash=item2f8f4abf1c:g:wIYAAOSwuPdjhuNk&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoN2TAhVKj3FtXoMfKl1rxs81BcQeZcoRy1Q2YcNS3u0pdnjRe3+P1KjLn+k1skr5Pu1uwFZa2jFnd8ug8dTTJnw4ysmbZuXo4vVCJ0SIc9Vk0p++OspVBWnM8rwSetq3pQR0rKvJkT6CJhNvmBNjsXpFGLJuPlLVSfPjzu/vN5j0AE6g6OJNptG/YsFvpwEzjYn//5hWcFZfsteeyrC0njk=|tkp:Bk9SR9LNxLrYYQ
Too bad that the all-important IN GOD WE TRUST appears to be damaged as well.
Few new ones in the censuses - anybody find new ones or regrade old ones, or have any info on these?
NEW:
PCGS AG-3
PCGS G-4
NGC VF
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
I have this loose 1919 P, only pic i have until i get back from travel. Hard to tell, but maybe? Thoughts?
Don't mind the overmarks from when i was editing the background out.
Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23
@Shane6596
I dont see anything to suggest the ddo on your coin
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
@Shane6596 That is not the DDO.
Yeah, after comparing it more, it's not. Thanks.
I was unaware of this ddo until now, ill keep an eye out for one, slim chance but never know.
Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23
The two PCGS ones are the ones I found. The other two went “details”.
I searched 850 more 1919 P dimes since then, and I found a fifth DDO.
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/so-just-how-rare-is-the-1919-ddo-dime-part-ii.403773/#post-22913593
Based on this purely random unsearched distribution, one can conclude that about 1 in 500 1919 P dimes in existence is a DDO.
Will the 1919 be the "Star" of the newest issue of the Cherrypickers Guide?
It’s on the cover but with it being such old news I can’t see it driving much additional interest beyond what it has already done over many years. For those living under a rock, maybe?
https://greatcollections.com/Collections/1120/The-Keyman64-Mercury-Dime-Collection/2024-07-07
Very cool thread!
I've been slacking - 6 sold in the last 5 or so weeks. Wonder if the CPG coming out is helping...
(45) PCGS FR-2 (B) - $1,495.00 (9/6/23 eBay - Buy It Now)
(47) PCGS AG-3 (B) - $1,895 (9/5/23 eBay Buy it Now)
(44) PCGS FR-2 - $1,295 (9/2/23 eBay - Buy It Now)
(46) PCGS AG-3 - $1,495.00 (9/1/23 eBay - Buy It Now)
(42) PCGS AG3 - $1,395 (8/23/22 eBay - Buy It Now)
(51) PCGS G4 - $2,995 (7/31/23 eBay Buy It Now)
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
Good lord, those are some strong prices for lowball coins.
Really speaks to the popularity of the variety. Doesn't seem to be trailing off as more are found.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
No, the prices have stayed fairly constant in the 8 years. There was a very slight lull on the AG-3 pieces early on, I think many were waiting for higher grades, but as very few higher ones show up, folks who truly want one are having to settle and pay solid prices for the FR, AG, Good ones.
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
There is a piece on eBay straight graded as Good-4 but it has severe tooling on the Y of LIBERTY. Can't pick it out of the census but might be one of the Good-4's listed there.
Seems to have some sort of unofficial Buy It Now at bottom of listing at $1797
It is 51 in the census, last sold a year ago on eBay.
51) PCGS G4 - eBay 6/2023 seller jjcoin - Sold 7/31/23 (eBay $2,995 Buy It Now)
Cert: 545047.04/46140106
Stage A
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
That’s strong money for a coin that probably should be in a details holder.
Hmmmmm.....all of that seller's listings have disappeared. I had bid on a couple of them just as placeholders, and I got a notice from eBay that one of them was no longer available because of a problem with the seller's account. Now, that may have been the back door Buy It Now he was offering down in the description to avoid paying fees. Ebay would definitely consider that to be a problem!
You might want to add a comment to the listing for #51 there there is heavy tooling at the Y of LIBERTY.
Hard to believe it's been over nine years since you discovered this variety.
And still no Mint State specimen!
.... and over 90 years before 'discovery'. +++
Found one more. This is the sixth I’ve found, and the seventh I’ve handled
This one will be coin 54 in the census. I'll call it a raw AG for now. I think you've passed KearneyCC who had found several in past years to become the new 1919 DDO Eagle Eye.
There is also a new PCGS F15 in their census (now coin 53) - anyone have info on that one?
"You Suck Award" - February, 2015
Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
I’ve also found 5 of the 10 known 1926 DDO dimes. The current census for that is:
ANACS MS60 Details (Discovery coin)
PCGS AU53 (Unattributed, 45596215, found by Shurke)
PCGS VF30 (My find, sold for $2500)
PCGS VF30 (My find)
NGC VF30
NGC F15
NGC VG10 (sold for ~$800 iirc)
PCGS VG8 (My find)
PCGS G6 (My find)
PCGS G6 (My find)