I'm guessing it's good and will probably be a 4 or 5. Looking at VCP Rick auctioned off a 5 and it hit $12,300 this past March. I'm sure the seller is reading this and wants to throw up so hopefully the op will work something out with her.
<< <i>The buyer knows an awful lot about the seller's circumstances and the card to be just someone who randomly found it and hit the buy it now button.
I think there's more to this than just someone who hit the buy button.
Even though there isn't much she can do to get her card back, eBay has been contacted with both user IDs and all correspondences to see if they are connected somehow.
If this is all true, I can understand the OPs excitement, but show an ounce of class by not publicly announcing that
"she obviously didn't know what she had"
"she was dumb to sell it and it's worth a lot more if it's real. Thank goodness she had already sent it lol."
"So her mistake is my gain I guess"
"So I feel bad for the lady in one sense as she def didn't know what she had." >>
So I'm not sure how this thread became what it did . I was simply asking other peoples opinion on this card. As for your remark about me knowing a lot about the seller, it's because after I bought it I asked the seller a few questions about the card. Obv in looking at her other items she is selling the card was out of plAce. So I was just inquiring about how she obtained the card. I have no relationship or knowledge of this seller prior to buying this item. I know about this card because I am an avid Ripken collector and most Ripken fans are aware of this card. Coincidently she lives about 20 min away from where I live. I am not sure how that even really makes sense to be honest. If this card is real I plan to keep it for my PC I have NO plans to see this card. And if you read above the comment about her being dumb for selling it was not made by me, somebody told her that and she told me that. I did say she must not have known what she had and I'm sorry if I offended you but I was not trying to be rude, she obviously did not know what she had. I did post in another thread that I do feel bad she didn't know what she had and if it is real I do plan to send her some additional money. So I am sorry if I offended anyone in any way not trying to do that. I'm not really sure why this thread turned into this. I was just curious to know other peoples opinions on the card. >>
I don't see how anyone can hold any of this against you.
<< <i>How about the folks at Goldman Sachs who were putting their clients into investment vehicles that they knew were lousy, while at the same making bets on the other side. What do you think their collective conscience is telling them? >>
Comparing an investment professional who knowingly sells bad investments to someone who picks off a card on EBAY is a horrible comparison. They are miles apart.
Comparing an investment professional who knowingly sells bad investments to someone who picks off a card on EBAY is a horrible comparison. They are miles apart.
No, that's a perfect comparison. Both rely on the fact that their counterparty doesn't fully understand what they are doing. One hides behind the argument that 'hey I'm just buying what somebody else wants to sell at a specified price' and the other hides behind 'hey I'm just selling what somebody else wants to buy at a specified price". They are exactly the same thing.
<< <i>Comparing an investment professional who knowingly sells bad investments to someone who picks off a card on EBAY is a horrible comparison. They are miles apart.
No, that's a perfect comparison. Both rely on the fact that their counterparty doesn't fully understand what they are doing. One hides behind the argument that 'hey I'm just buying what somebody else wants to sell at a specified price' and the other hides behind 'hey I'm just selling what somebody else wants to buy at a specified price". They are exactly the same thing. >>
So you have never bought a card on EBAY that you felt like you got a good deal on?
I find it ironic that the OP is being maligned for getting a great deal because of a misinformed seller, when almost everyone of us includes spelling variations in our eBay searches hoping to find a misspelled or mis-categorized listing. It's unfortunate the seller is a poor old lady with a sad story but the only thing the OP did wrong here was post his find. This is probably one of those times where you quietly enjoy your find, brag to your buddies over a couple of beers, and leave it off the boards. It's easy to say that you would send this seller extra money or offer to pay her more, and God bless you if you would or have done so (e.g., Mullins), but if the OP is truly not planning on selling the card, I don't agree with him having to pay more out of pocket just to "make things right.
Great find and best of luck with the grade. We all wish we found it first.
DPeck, "We" don't draw the line on profit anywhere each person has to do what works for them.
As I said previously I hope it comes back authentic and grades well. If it does I hope the buyer follows through on helping the lady out. Hopefully ends up a win-win for everyone involved.
I'm in the boat that says enjoy the deal, just like the person who found the old hockey cards at auction. Like others, I think it's different when a buyer misleads the seller on a price or value.
<< <i>I'm in the boat that says enjoy the deal, just like the person who found the old hockey cards at auction. Like others, I think it's different when a buyer misleads the seller on a price or value. >>
I believe you are referring to the thread about the packs purchased from Good Will.
No one was giving the OP a hard time in that thread. No difference between a 99 cent auction and a Buy It Now.
It is all selective on this board. Some major deals are cool and others are not.
I think the only sad part here is that she had the right idea to auction it off. Probably would have only hit a few thousand because it's not graded but unfortunately she got duped buy Fast Eddie
Hey, did you hear the Navy is going to name one of their destroyers after a former wide receiver for the Steelers? Why, you ask? Because Louis Lipps sink ships.
Next time a board member posts a card that bumps from a PSA 9 to a PSA 10 I am counting on the same people to say that they should send the seller some restitution.
<< <i>Next time a board member posts a card that bumps from a PSA 9 to a PSA 10 I am counting on the same people to say that they should send the seller some restitution. >>
Good luck with that one As for the card, in this day and age where info on , well, everything, is available at the click of a mouse, I can't fault the buyer for what he did. I really can't . Nor do I think he should reimburse if the card does grade out. Selling the card wasn't his responsibility. Maybe i'm cold and see that in far more black and white terms than others.
<< <i>Next time a board member posts a card that bumps from a PSA 9 to a PSA 10 I am counting on the same people to say that they should send the seller some restitution. >>
Good luck with that one As for the card, in this day and age where info on , well, everything, is available at the click of a mouse, I can't fault the buyer for what he did. I really can't . Nor do I think he should reimburse if the card does grade out. Selling the card wasn't his responsibility. Maybe i'm cold and see that in far more black and white terms than others. >>
I am really at a loss for words about the self righteousness of some on this board.
Just for fun I asked my wife her thoughts on the topic. Her answer. Boo Hoo they should have done their due diligence.
On a daily basis we see cards that were purchased raw and graded posted with massive price gains. Periodically we see threads where a grade bump results in thousands of dollars of profit to the buyer.
No one says a word.
When you list an item for sale it is under your terms. It is really that simple.
<< <i>Periodically we see threads where a grade bump results in thousands of dollars of profit to the buyer. No one says a word. >>
I think most likely the reason for that is we are pretty much all aware of the potential of cards being bumped up and are being resubmitted. It's no surprise when that happens and it is expected from time to time
As far as this item goes I think the best lesson learned is if you have something your not sure of just list it as an auction and not as buy it now. It is obvious but that being said not everyone seems to realize this.
I hope the card is real. And you send the lady some money for her needs. I would sleep better at night if it was me. Profit is one thing. But when it gets to far from what is fair. You have to think about what is the golden rule in this. I am a financial advisor I see all the time some of the junk my industry sells To clients that have no clue but they count on you to the right thing.
It is all selective on this board. Some major deals are cool and others are not.
A few thoughts:
1) The card is real, let's just agree on that.
2) The seller is a lady who didn't know what she had, let's just agree on that.
3) Assuming everything the OP is telling us is the truth (and there's no reason to suggest that it's not): This is a unique situation that clearly presents a moral dilemma for some. If it was Al Rosen selling the card for $300, nobody here would give it a second thought because he should know better. But it's not (see #2), and to say there's no difference between Al Rosen underselling a card vs. an unknowledgeable old lady selling a card is an unfair assessment. To see it as black and white, and subsequently that these types of situations should all be viewed the same, is not an accurate representation of how the world works. If the lady is a billionaire and an extra $2000 is a drop in the bucket to her, that makes a difference. If the lady is homeless, this card was her last possession and the $2000 would give her shelter and food for a year, that makes a difference. Perhaps for some it makes it easy to lump every buy/sell situation into the same set of values, but each buy/sell situation is unique; while most are very similar, they are each still unique and should be handled on a case-by-case basis rather than with broad black & white brushstrokes. In every situation there are variables.
4) If you can buy a card for 3% of its value from someone that's clearly ignorant to its value and not feel any responsibility to give something back, then your values lie in attaining things and improving your life above helping people. In the end, that's what it comes down to. If you don't want to help people, that's your prerogative. But when the time comes that you need help in some fashion from someone you don't know, don't expect it to be there.
My personal opinion is that the world has an over-abundance of people only looking out for themselves. Their justification for this view is that the world is full of people only looking out for themselves, so why shouldn't they. I choose not to be part of that group. To not have sympathy for others and to expect others to not have sympathy for you is a very cold way to approach life.
Lee is 100% correct. I feel sick just reading this thread. Making a good deal on Ebay is fine; making $12000 profit off a naive eldery woman is an altogether different situation.
Just catching up on this thread. Amazing grab to the OP. Congrats.
As for those who saying to give her more money if it comes back legit, that's really a decision for him to make but he certainly doesn't have to do anything. I bet those people who emailed the women after the BIN was completed and telling her that she was dumb for listing it at only a $300 BIN only did that because THEY themselves didn't hit that BIN button fast enough. They are most likely haters which is what I am also detecting here as well after reading some of these comments/replies. Jealous haters. If you won one of these warehouse storage war auctions for lets say ...$100 and inside you found the first issue of Superman or maybe a pair of PSA 8 52 Mantles inside, I am POSITIVE you would NOT go out and search for the original owner of the storage warehouse to give them a cut. So then why would this be any different?
Dpeck, Bumping a card is not even close to an analogous comparison. Paying something close (40-50% or whatever) to market value for a raw card that subsequently grades to a 10 is not an analogous comparison. The shrink-wrapped boxes of hockey cards sold via auction is not the same either. If you do not understand that then we are simply talking past each other.
I do not believe the OP has done anything wrong. They saw a great deal on ebay, took a minor risk and pounced. However the OP did engage in a discussion with the seller and subsequently learned about the card's provenance and her reasons for selling. It appears she was duped by another ebayer into listing the card for a song via BIN. Is that no one's fault but her own? Sure but for me that starts to take a little bit of a shine off the deal and I know I would feel guilty for keeping the card for the price that was paid if it is real. Once PSA renders their decision the OP will get to decide what works for him. That is 100% his choice and hopefully this discussion does not discourage him from posting the results.
- (Along the lines of CD's commente) Every ethical decision should be viewed on a case-by-case basis. There is no "cookie cutter" approach to ethical situations.
- Everyone here is looking for good deals, but how anyone could consider this deal "good" after all the facts are presented is beyond me. Understanding there isn't a real measuring stick on what's "a fair value", we can all agree that $300 for a $10K + card is not an example of this.
With that being said, I couldn't enjoy my card knowing full well the seller's lack of knowledge on what she had and the potential intent for the money. It's clear she's happy with the $300, so how much happier will she be if you throw a little more her way if the card holds up at $10K+?
For me, The saddest part of this thread is discovering how low some board members ethics are -- whether they realize it or not.
I guess my ethics are in the gutter and I am just a bad person. LOL
I will tell you one thing.
A year or so ago a board member had a PSA 9 Paul Molitor bump to a PSA 10. A $7,800 score. How this is not an example of a person not knowing what they had I don't know. If I had sold the card I would be supper pissed to find this out. That said if I listed it and was willing to sell it for whatever price I did then tough luck on my part.
EBAY to me is a scavenger hunt and there are people out there that choose to make a living looking for bargains to resell. There is not some magic number where it goes from being okay to making profit to not. Everyone has a story. Some good and some bad. I personally don't get emotionally involved in random purchases and who knows what her true circumstances are. Every single questionable card that is presented to the board has a sob story with it. If you believed everyone you would be crazy. Perhaps this lady does need money. Perhaps she doesn't. For all we know she might have been thrilled to get $300 for it. Once again I don't place a value judgement on this.
I have given out cards to board members that have graded a PSA 10 and never thought twice. I was happy that they were happy. I believe in treating people fair. When given the potential chance to buy the guy from the local ABC liquor stores MTG Black Lotus I showed him the EBAY sales. I didn't say hey I will give you $100 for it. That said I knew him and saw and understood his circumstances. On EBAY in my view it is different. It is a market where we are all competing to find deals on any number of items.
What if $300 is all the OP could afford to spend on the card? Should it go to someone else who could afford more? Once again none of this matters.
I personally have never been involved in a score of significant magnitude like this and once again congratulate the OP for his potential win. I scour EBAY all of the time looking for cards and if I had been fortunate enough to see it would have hit the Buy It Now instantly.
This feels like more of a political debate where it is okay to make some money in life but once you pass a certain threshold it is no longer fair.
my thoughts for your quarter--great find. As a master set collector I know what it is like to find the Holy Grail. To get it at a fraction of the cost is too good to be true. You did nothing wrong (maybe except posting your find--lol)--it was a format open to everyone who was paying attention. And like Lee said if it was a dealer or someone who even remotely should have known what they had--there would be no backlash.
But the truth is--so far as we know anyway--that it's a poor old lady who needed the $$ for oil. And there's your moral dilemma.
Look at it this way--you crossed off one of the toughest cards off your master set list--revel in not only accomplishing that--but you also did it at a ridiculously low cost.
IMO--you gotta fill her tank for the winter--you'll feel better, if not only publicly--and you'll still be far ahead of the game
<< <i>Just catching up on this thread. Amazing grab to the OP. Congrats.
As for those who saying to give her more money if it comes back legit, that's really a decision for him to make but he certainly doesn't have to do anything. I bet those people who emailed the women after the BIN was completed and telling her that she was dumb for listing it at only a $300 BIN only did that because THEY themselves didn't hit that BIN button fast enough. They are most likely haters which is what I am also detecting here as well after reading some of these comments/replies. Jealous haters. If you won one of these warehouse storage war auctions for lets say ...$100 and inside you found the first issue of Superman or maybe a pair of PSA 8 52 Mantles inside, I am POSITIVE you would NOT go out and search for the original owner of the storage warehouse to give them a cut. So then why would this be any different? >>
It is not.
There have been numerous stories of finds at garage sales that resulted in massive winnings for the buyer. EBAY is after all an online garage sale.
I have watched the show antiques roadshow a few times and all you see is excitement in their eyes when the value is announced. Not regret for the person who sold it.
Wow this thread is crazy. Here is my take. I just typed in Cal Ripken Charlotte on Google. On the first page I found several articles about this card. If the lady can list stuff on Ebay they could have done a search through Google or another search engine. I use to sell a lot of things on Ebay myself and had to research them a bit to get an idea of the items worth. I always knew when I had people contact me about ending an auction early that someone was trying to get a deal. If I let the auction run its course I typically did better than accepting a BIN. Looks like the OP snagged the BIN before someone else did. I don't feel like he owes anyone anything.
<< <i>Wow this thread is crazy. Here is my take. I just typed in Cal Ripken Charlotte on Google. On the first page I found several articles about this card. If the lady can list stuff on Ebay they could have done a search through Google or another search engine. I use to sell a lot of things on Ebay myself and had to research them a bit to get an idea of the items worth. I always knew when I had people contact me about ending an auction early that someone was trying to get a deal. If I let the auction run its course I typically did better than accepting a BIN. Looks like the OP snagged the BIN before someone else did. I don't feel like he owes anyone anything. >>
If you won one of these warehouse storage war auctions for lets say ...$100 and inside you found the first issue of Superman or maybe a pair of PSA 8 52 Mantles inside, I am POSITIVE you would NOT go out and search for the original owner of the storage warehouse to give them a cut. So then why would this be any different?
It's different because it's different. It's different in the same way that stealing $20 from a criminal to give to charity is different from stealing $20 from a child to buy heroine. You can't just look at the main event in a situation and conclude it's the same as other situations with the same main event. Every situation has variables that make it different and unique, and those variables need to be taken into account.
In this case, the OP had dialogue with the seller. He got to know her a little and know her situation, and at that point it became a little more than a typical ebay transaction where you hit BIN, pay and a card shows up a few days later with no words exchanged. She entered his life to a certain degree, just like DPeck's Black Lotus guy that he didn't feel comfortable taking advantage of. The fact that the communication has occurred through the internet shouldn't change how we approach things. It is no longer an anonymous transaction, and the moral and ethical rules that govern how we treat other people need to kick in. David, let me ask you this: If the lady brought the card over to your house, explained her situation in exactly the same terms and said she didn't know what it was worth but she'd take $300 for it..... do you throw three bills at her and tell her to hit the bricks? Or do you treat it differently because now she's face to face?
You are correct in your view that ebay is a market and you have to play the game in order to come out ahead. But always keep in mind that you're not dealing with robots- there are people on the other end of the transaction. I know you're not a bad dude and I'm sure you've treated people well over the years. But buying this card from this lady is vastly different than hopping on e*trade and buying a couple shares of IBM.
<< <i>And where does the $10,000 price tag come from exactly? Obviously this is a pretty rare card, just wondering how $10k became the number put on it. And does that mean that a PSA 9 or better of this same card would run $100k or more? >>
This one sold at Huggins & Scott on 10/11/13 for $11,850.00.
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>If you won one of these warehouse storage war auctions for lets say ...$100 and inside you found the first issue of Superman or maybe a pair of PSA 8 52 Mantles inside, I am POSITIVE you would NOT go out and search for the original owner of the storage warehouse to give them a cut. So then why would this be any different?
It's different because it's different. It's different in the same way that stealing $20 from a criminal to give to charity is different from stealing $20 from a child to buy heroine. You can't just look at the main event in a situation and conclude it's the same as other situations with the same main event. Every situation has variables that make it different and unique, and those variables need to be taken into account.
In this case, the OP had dialogue with the seller. He got to know her a little and know her situation, and at that point it became a little more than a typical ebay transaction where you hit BIN, pay and a card shows up a few days later with no words exchanged. She entered his life to a certain degree, just like DPeck's Black Lotus guy that he didn't feel comfortable taking advantage of. The fact that the communication has occurred through the internet shouldn't change how we approach things. It is no longer an anonymous transaction, and the moral and ethical rules that govern how we treat other people need to kick in. David, let me ask you this: If the lady brought the card over to your house, explained her situation in exactly the same terms and said she didn't know what it was worth but she'd take $300 for it..... do you throw three bills at her and tell her to hit the bricks? Or do you treat it differently because now she's face to face?
You are correct in your view that ebay is a market and you have to play the game in order to come out ahead. But always keep in mind that you're not dealing with robots- there are people on the other end of the transaction. I know you're not a bad dude and I'm sure you've treated people well over the years. But buying this card from this lady is vastly different than hopping on e*trade and buying a couple shares of IBM.
Lee >>
I honestly can't relate to someone who doesn't do an ounce of research before listing a collectible online. I get random emails from time to time from my little website and generally they are offering me cards at whatever the prices they see on EBAY or perhaps something they read in a message board thread. Sometimes even higher.
Lee you are in the business of buying and selling collectibles. If I have a bunch of raw cards and you purchase them and get them graded your immediate game plan is to win. Once the buyer and seller agree on a price it is over.
If someone came to me and said I have these cards for sale and I want X, I just don't see it as my responsibility to tell them that is to low. Where did they get the price they are asking? A friend, a price guide, an amount they had invested, perhaps a number to pay a bill? There any number of answers to the question.
I have sold a few wrestling cards to board members and they offered me X and I said that was to high and sold them for less. There was a personal element involved in those situations. I guess the issue becomes where do you draw the line between personal and not.
To me EBAY remains a marketplace of buyers and sellers and in this case I just have to side with the OP. Think how many times a low pop common hits or where a card was bought raw and the value is catapulted by thousands of percent once graded. Why are these okay and hitting a Buy It Now is not? This lady it doesn't appear lost money. She missed out on money.
I am guilty of sending offers to sellers to end an item in a buy it now that was below what I thought the item was worth. Admittedly I like to try and get items at a price that I feel works for me. On the flip side I am also guilty of over paying for a card to keep it out of someone else's collection.
Once an item is listed I view it as fair game. If I am a bad guy for thinking this way I guess that is just how it is.
<< <i>What if $300 is all the OP could afford to spend on the card? Should it go to someone else who could afford more? Once again none of this matters. >>
I know a lot about Jeep Wranglers and plan to buy a 3-5 YO with mid mileage. It's worth $10-12k but I'm going to the dealership today with $300. Wish me luck
<< <i>The buyer knows an awful lot about the seller's circumstances and the card to be just someone who randomly found it and hit the buy it now button.
I think there's more to this than just someone who hit the buy button.
Even though there isn't much she can do to get her card back, eBay has been contacted with both user IDs and all correspondences to see if they are connected somehow.
If this is all true, I can understand the OPs excitement, but show an ounce of class by not publicly announcing that
"she obviously didn't know what she had"
"she was dumb to sell it and it's worth a lot more if it's real. Thank goodness she had already sent it lol."
"So her mistake is my gain I guess"
"So I feel bad for the lady in one sense as she def didn't know what she had." >>
I have nothing to add to this thread other than one observation--The guy making the biggest stink in this thread has no issues with contacting Ebay (he's mentioned it before in other threads as well) to do what he thinks is right, yet he's had threads about the finds at the Goodwill store he works at. Not to mention, but isn't he also the fake Gretzky guy?
the OP's play is the foundation on which we have been built. myriad amounts of items have traded hands significantly below value throughout history, the only difference being that no one informed us about it, so the morality police couldn't jump in to defend the wretched refuse of our world.
"never get cheated"
the seller in question seems to have been rather busy unloading all sorts of personal goods on eBay over the past year, and what prevents us from wondering how many of those other items were undersold? probably none. at least, not the panties.
raise your hand if you once had a great score, flipped it for huge profit, then turned around and "re-invested" your winnings in more cards or whatever you chase.
now, you're a driving force behind a market which is dependent on your participation. these dollar signs are just stuff that gets made up as we go along. if someone was crazy enough to pay 10K+ for that Ripken card, then it has a back history which can be located by anyone else willing to sell one and do their diligent research.
who told the seller to offer it up for $300? maybe this person thought they were getting one heckuva price for it and they will be just as happy with the funds received as they were with the nickels and dimes earned on the hundreds of items sold prior to young Mr. Ripken.
<< <i>What if $300 is all the OP could afford to spend on the card? Should it go to someone else who could afford more? Once again none of this matters. >>
I know a lot about Jeep Wranglers and plan to buy a 3-5 YO with mid mileage. It's worth $10-12k but I'm going to the dealership today with $300. Wish me luck >>
So if a seller listed one for $300 you would politely email them and say they need to raise the price because it is to low. Sure.
What I find amusing about you indicating my morals are in the gutter is that I have been one of the more generous people quietly on this board. My only request was to keep it to themselves. A few came out and thanked me publicly even though I requested them not to.
A few years back I was involved in perhaps the most embarrassing buy on these boards since I have joined. I bought a 1963 Topps Rookie of the hit by pitch king and not the hits king in haste thinking it was a different card. It was my fault that I paid 20 times what the card generally sold for. Was the seller fishing for an idiot like me. Yes. Is it their fault that someone came along and bit the hook? No.
I took delivery of the card and sold it it for a 90% loss. Lesson learned.
This is essentially what "collecting" has devolved into. Individual adults out to extract economics for themselves because they know more about how to play the grading/crossover game than the last guy.
It's no wonder kids don't think it's fun any more.
Lee, I understand what you are saying but there is still not a difference. She got what she wanted for the card. eBay is an open market and its fair game once you list your item. I don't recall people complaining when a board member bought a Henderson rookie raw for under $1000 and it happened to came back a 10. No one was complaining saying that they owed the seller more money. They actually congratulated that individual (including myself) on getting a 10.
I am sure you also remember back in 1990 when some kid went into a card store and purchased a Ryan rookie for $12. The owner priced the card at 1200 but maybe missed the decimal point and the the employee who was behind the counter sold it at $12 because they were on the phone and didn't pay closer attention or were simply too distracted. The whole thing went to court and neither the kid nor the card store owner got to keep the card and it went to auction for charity is what I recall reading. Now THAT was a different case. That card should have gone back to the owner. Why? Because it was a moral issue. The store had it priced CORRECTLY and they KNEW what they had and wanted $1200 for it. Unfortunately the person behind the counter wasn't familiar with the card and mixed up the price.
OP, once again, congrats on your pick up. It looks real and hopefully it is.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>The buyer knows an awful lot about the seller's circumstances and the card to be just someone who randomly found it and hit the buy it now button.
I think there's more to this than just someone who hit the buy button.
Even though there isn't much she can do to get her card back, eBay has been contacted with both user IDs and all correspondences to see if they are connected somehow.
If this is all true, I can understand the OPs excitement, but show an ounce of class by not publicly announcing that
"she obviously didn't know what she had"
"she was dumb to sell it and it's worth a lot more if it's real. Thank goodness she had already sent it lol."
"So her mistake is my gain I guess"
"So I feel bad for the lady in one sense as she def didn't know what she had." >>
So I'm not sure how this thread became what it did . I was simply asking other peoples opinion on this card.
As for your remark about me knowing a lot about the seller, it's because after I bought it I asked the seller a few questions about the card. Obv in looking at her other items she is selling the card was out of plAce. So I was just inquiring about how she obtained the card.
I have no relationship or knowledge of this seller prior to buying this item. I know about this card because I am an avid Ripken collector and most Ripken fans are aware of this card. Coincidently she lives about 20 min away from where I live. I am not sure how that even really makes sense to be honest. If this card is real I plan to keep it for my PC I have NO plans to see this card.
And if you read above the comment about her being dumb for selling it was not made by me, somebody told her that and she told me that. I did say she must not have known what she had and I'm sorry if I offended you but I was not trying to be rude, she obviously did not know what she had. I did post in another thread that I do feel bad she didn't know what she had and if it is real I do plan to send her some additional money.
So I am sorry if I offended anyone in any way not trying to do that. I'm not really sure why this thread turned into this. I was just curious to know other peoples opinions on the card. >>
I don't see how anyone can hold any of this against you.
<< <i>How about the folks at Goldman Sachs who were putting their clients into investment vehicles that they knew were lousy, while at the same making bets on the other side. What do you think their collective conscience is telling them? >>
Comparing an investment professional who knowingly sells bad investments to someone who picks off a card on EBAY is a horrible comparison. They are miles apart.
<< <i>I don't mean to sound dumb I know your referring to me but what does OP mean? >>
Original poster.
<< <i>I don't mean to sound dumb I know your referring to me but what does OP mean? >>
Original Poster.
No, that's a perfect comparison. Both rely on the fact that their counterparty doesn't fully understand what they are doing. One hides behind the argument that 'hey I'm just buying what somebody else wants to sell at a specified price' and the other hides behind 'hey I'm just selling what somebody else wants to buy at a specified price". They are exactly the same thing.
<< <i>Comparing an investment professional who knowingly sells bad investments to someone who picks off a card on EBAY is a horrible comparison. They are miles apart.
No, that's a perfect comparison. Both rely on the fact that their counterparty doesn't fully understand what they are doing. One hides behind the argument that 'hey I'm just buying what somebody else wants to sell at a specified price' and the other hides behind 'hey I'm just selling what somebody else wants to buy at a specified price". They are exactly the same thing. >>
So you have never bought a card on EBAY that you felt like you got a good deal on?
There is nothing malicious about that.
<< <i>I don't mean to sound dumb I know your referring to me but what does OP mean? >>
Original Poster (Thread Initiator)
ETA: Wow, was I slow.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't mean to sound dumb I know your referring to me but what does OP mean? >>
Original Poster (Thread Initiator)
ETA: Wow, was I slow. >>
Dude, that was SO 3 minutes ago!
Great find and best of luck with the grade. We all wish we found it first.
"We" don't draw the line on profit anywhere each person has to do what works for them.
As I said previously I hope it comes back authentic and grades well. If it does I hope the buyer follows through on helping the lady out. Hopefully ends up a win-win for everyone involved.
Robb
<< <i>I wonder if any if us sold something too low--anyone make it right to us? >>
Of course not.
Using this logic every time a card grades a 10 you should send the seller some extra money. I mean come on it did grade a 10 and you won.
<< <i>I'm in the boat that says enjoy the deal, just like the person who found the old hockey cards at auction. Like others, I think it's different when a buyer misleads the seller on a price or value. >>
I believe you are referring to the thread about the packs purchased from Good Will.
No one was giving the OP a hard time in that thread. No difference between a 99 cent auction and a Buy It Now.
It is all selective on this board. Some major deals are cool and others are not.
<< <i>Next time a board member posts a card that bumps from a PSA 9 to a PSA 10 I am counting on the same people to say that they should send the seller some restitution. >>
Good luck with that one
As for the card, in this day and age where info on , well, everything, is available at the click of a mouse, I can't fault the buyer for what he did. I really can't . Nor do I think he should reimburse if the card does grade out. Selling the card wasn't his responsibility. Maybe i'm cold and see that in far more black and white terms than others.
<< <i>
<< <i>Next time a board member posts a card that bumps from a PSA 9 to a PSA 10 I am counting on the same people to say that they should send the seller some restitution. >>
Good luck with that one
As for the card, in this day and age where info on , well, everything, is available at the click of a mouse, I can't fault the buyer for what he did. I really can't . Nor do I think he should reimburse if the card does grade out. Selling the card wasn't his responsibility. Maybe i'm cold and see that in far more black and white terms than others. >>
I am really at a loss for words about the self righteousness of some on this board.
Just for fun I asked my wife her thoughts on the topic. Her answer. Boo Hoo they should have done their due diligence.
On a daily basis we see cards that were purchased raw and graded posted with massive price gains. Periodically we see threads where a grade bump results in thousands of dollars of profit to the buyer.
No one says a word.
When you list an item for sale it is under your terms. It is really that simple.
<< <i>Periodically we see threads where a grade bump results in thousands of dollars of profit to the buyer. No one says a word. >>
I think most likely the reason for that is we are pretty much all aware of the potential of cards being bumped up and are being resubmitted. It's no surprise when that happens and it is expected from time to time
As far as this item goes I think the best lesson learned is if you have something your not sure of just list it as an auction and not as buy it now. It is obvious but that being said not everyone seems to realize this.
A few thoughts:
1) The card is real, let's just agree on that.
2) The seller is a lady who didn't know what she had, let's just agree on that.
3) Assuming everything the OP is telling us is the truth (and there's no reason to suggest that it's not): This is a unique situation that clearly presents a moral dilemma for some. If it was Al Rosen selling the card for $300, nobody here would give it a second thought because he should know better. But it's not (see #2), and to say there's no difference between Al Rosen underselling a card vs. an unknowledgeable old lady selling a card is an unfair assessment. To see it as black and white, and subsequently that these types of situations should all be viewed the same, is not an accurate representation of how the world works. If the lady is a billionaire and an extra $2000 is a drop in the bucket to her, that makes a difference. If the lady is homeless, this card was her last possession and the $2000 would give her shelter and food for a year, that makes a difference. Perhaps for some it makes it easy to lump every buy/sell situation into the same set of values, but each buy/sell situation is unique; while most are very similar, they are each still unique and should be handled on a case-by-case basis rather than with broad black & white brushstrokes. In every situation there are variables.
4) If you can buy a card for 3% of its value from someone that's clearly ignorant to its value and not feel any responsibility to give something back, then your values lie in attaining things and improving your life above helping people. In the end, that's what it comes down to. If you don't want to help people, that's your prerogative. But when the time comes that you need help in some fashion from someone you don't know, don't expect it to be there.
My personal opinion is that the world has an over-abundance of people only looking out for themselves. Their justification for this view is that the world is full of people only looking out for themselves, so why shouldn't they. I choose not to be part of that group. To not have sympathy for others and to expect others to not have sympathy for you is a very cold way to approach life.
Lee
As for those who saying to give her more money if it comes back legit, that's really a decision for him to make but he certainly doesn't have to do anything. I bet those people who emailed the women after the BIN was completed and telling her that she was dumb for listing it at only a $300 BIN only did that because THEY themselves didn't hit that BIN button fast enough. They are most likely haters which is what I am also detecting here as well after reading some of these comments/replies. Jealous haters. If you won one of these warehouse storage war auctions for lets say ...$100 and inside you found the first issue of Superman or maybe a pair of PSA 8 52 Mantles inside, I am POSITIVE you would NOT go out and search for the original owner of the storage warehouse to give them a cut. So then why would this be any different?
Bumping a card is not even close to an analogous comparison. Paying something close (40-50% or whatever) to market value for a raw card that subsequently grades to a 10 is not an analogous comparison. The shrink-wrapped boxes of hockey cards sold via auction is not the same either. If you do not understand that then we are simply talking past each other.
I do not believe the OP has done anything wrong. They saw a great deal on ebay, took a minor risk and pounced. However the OP did engage in a discussion with the seller and subsequently learned about the card's provenance and her reasons for selling. It appears she was duped by another ebayer into listing the card for a song via BIN. Is that no one's fault but her own? Sure but for me that starts to take a little bit of a shine off the deal and I know I would feel guilty for keeping the card for the price that was paid if it is real. Once PSA renders their decision the OP will get to decide what works for him. That is 100% his choice and hopefully this discussion does not discourage him from posting the results.
Robb
- (Along the lines of CD's commente) Every ethical decision should be viewed on a case-by-case basis. There is no "cookie cutter" approach to ethical situations.
- Everyone here is looking for good deals, but how anyone could consider this deal "good" after all the facts are presented is beyond me. Understanding there isn't a real measuring stick on what's "a fair value", we can all agree that $300 for a $10K + card is not an example of this.
With that being said, I couldn't enjoy my card knowing full well the seller's lack of knowledge on what she had and the potential intent for the money. It's clear she's happy with the $300, so how much happier will she be if you throw a little more her way if the card holds up at $10K+?
For me, The saddest part of this thread is discovering how low some board members ethics are -- whether they realize it or not.
I will tell you one thing.
A year or so ago a board member had a PSA 9 Paul Molitor bump to a PSA 10. A $7,800 score. How this is not an example of a person not knowing what they had I don't know. If I had sold the card I would be supper pissed to find this out. That said if I listed it and was willing to sell it for whatever price I did then tough luck on my part.
EBAY to me is a scavenger hunt and there are people out there that choose to make a living looking for bargains to resell. There is not some magic number where it goes from being okay to making profit to not. Everyone has a story. Some good and some bad. I personally don't get emotionally involved in random purchases and who knows what her true circumstances are. Every single questionable card that is presented to the board has a sob story with it. If you believed everyone you would be crazy. Perhaps this lady does need money. Perhaps she doesn't. For all we know she might have been thrilled to get $300 for it. Once again I don't place a value judgement on this.
I have given out cards to board members that have graded a PSA 10 and never thought twice. I was happy that they were happy. I believe in treating people fair. When given the potential chance to buy the guy from the local ABC liquor stores MTG Black Lotus I showed him the EBAY sales. I didn't say hey I will give you $100 for it. That said I knew him and saw and understood his circumstances. On EBAY in my view it is different. It is a market where we are all competing to find deals on any number of items.
What if $300 is all the OP could afford to spend on the card? Should it go to someone else who could afford more? Once again none of this matters.
I personally have never been involved in a score of significant magnitude like this and once again congratulate the OP for his potential win. I scour EBAY all of the time looking for cards and if I had been fortunate enough to see it would have hit the Buy It Now instantly.
This feels like more of a political debate where it is okay to make some money in life but once you pass a certain threshold it is no longer fair.
my thoughts for your quarter--great find. As a master set collector I know what it is like to find the Holy Grail. To get it at a fraction of the cost is too good to be true. You did nothing wrong (maybe except posting your find--lol)--it was a format open to everyone who was paying attention. And like Lee said if it was a dealer or someone who even remotely should have known what they had--there would be no backlash.
But the truth is--so far as we know anyway--that it's a poor old lady who needed the $$ for oil. And there's your moral dilemma.
Look at it this way--you crossed off one of the toughest cards off your master set list--revel in not only accomplishing that--but you also did it at a ridiculously low cost.
IMO--you gotta fill her tank for the winter--you'll feel better, if not only publicly--and you'll still be far ahead of the game
<< <i>Just catching up on this thread. Amazing grab to the OP. Congrats.
As for those who saying to give her more money if it comes back legit, that's really a decision for him to make but he certainly doesn't have to do anything. I bet those people who emailed the women after the BIN was completed and telling her that she was dumb for listing it at only a $300 BIN only did that because THEY themselves didn't hit that BIN button fast enough. They are most likely haters which is what I am also detecting here as well after reading some of these comments/replies. Jealous haters. If you won one of these warehouse storage war auctions for lets say ...$100 and inside you found the first issue of Superman or maybe a pair of PSA 8 52 Mantles inside, I am POSITIVE you would NOT go out and search for the original owner of the storage warehouse to give them a cut. So then why would this be any different? >>
It is not.
There have been numerous stories of finds at garage sales that resulted in massive winnings for the buyer. EBAY is after all an online garage sale.
I have watched the show antiques roadshow a few times and all you see is excitement in their eyes when the value is announced. Not regret for the person who sold it.
Obviously this is a pretty rare card, just wondering how $10k became the number put on it.
And does that mean that a PSA 9 or better of this same card would run $100k or more?
<< <i>Wow this thread is crazy. Here is my take. I just typed in Cal Ripken Charlotte on Google. On the first page I found several articles about this card. If the lady can list stuff on Ebay they could have done a search through Google or another search engine. I use to sell a lot of things on Ebay myself and had to research them a bit to get an idea of the items worth. I always knew when I had people contact me about ending an auction early that someone was trying to get a deal. If I let the auction run its course I typically did better than accepting a BIN. Looks like the OP snagged the BIN before someone else did. I don't feel like he owes anyone anything. >>
^^^^
It's different because it's different. It's different in the same way that stealing $20 from a criminal to give to charity is different from stealing $20 from a child to buy heroine. You can't just look at the main event in a situation and conclude it's the same as other situations with the same main event. Every situation has variables that make it different and unique, and those variables need to be taken into account.
In this case, the OP had dialogue with the seller. He got to know her a little and know her situation, and at that point it became a little more than a typical ebay transaction where you hit BIN, pay and a card shows up a few days later with no words exchanged. She entered his life to a certain degree, just like DPeck's Black Lotus guy that he didn't feel comfortable taking advantage of. The fact that the communication has occurred through the internet shouldn't change how we approach things. It is no longer an anonymous transaction, and the moral and ethical rules that govern how we treat other people need to kick in. David, let me ask you this: If the lady brought the card over to your house, explained her situation in exactly the same terms and said she didn't know what it was worth but she'd take $300 for it..... do you throw three bills at her and tell her to hit the bricks? Or do you treat it differently because now she's face to face?
You are correct in your view that ebay is a market and you have to play the game in order to come out ahead. But always keep in mind that you're not dealing with robots- there are people on the other end of the transaction. I know you're not a bad dude and I'm sure you've treated people well over the years. But buying this card from this lady is vastly different than hopping on e*trade and buying a couple shares of IBM.
Lee
Congrats on the pickup.
IMF
<< <i>And where does the $10,000 price tag come from exactly?
Obviously this is a pretty rare card, just wondering how $10k became the number put on it.
And does that mean that a PSA 9 or better of this same card would run $100k or more? >>
This one sold at Huggins & Scott on 10/11/13 for $11,850.00.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>If you won one of these warehouse storage war auctions for lets say ...$100 and inside you found the first issue of Superman or maybe a pair of PSA 8 52 Mantles inside, I am POSITIVE you would NOT go out and search for the original owner of the storage warehouse to give them a cut. So then why would this be any different?
It's different because it's different. It's different in the same way that stealing $20 from a criminal to give to charity is different from stealing $20 from a child to buy heroine. You can't just look at the main event in a situation and conclude it's the same as other situations with the same main event. Every situation has variables that make it different and unique, and those variables need to be taken into account.
In this case, the OP had dialogue with the seller. He got to know her a little and know her situation, and at that point it became a little more than a typical ebay transaction where you hit BIN, pay and a card shows up a few days later with no words exchanged. She entered his life to a certain degree, just like DPeck's Black Lotus guy that he didn't feel comfortable taking advantage of. The fact that the communication has occurred through the internet shouldn't change how we approach things. It is no longer an anonymous transaction, and the moral and ethical rules that govern how we treat other people need to kick in. David, let me ask you this: If the lady brought the card over to your house, explained her situation in exactly the same terms and said she didn't know what it was worth but she'd take $300 for it..... do you throw three bills at her and tell her to hit the bricks? Or do you treat it differently because now she's face to face?
You are correct in your view that ebay is a market and you have to play the game in order to come out ahead. But always keep in mind that you're not dealing with robots- there are people on the other end of the transaction. I know you're not a bad dude and I'm sure you've treated people well over the years. But buying this card from this lady is vastly different than hopping on e*trade and buying a couple shares of IBM.
Lee >>
I honestly can't relate to someone who doesn't do an ounce of research before listing a collectible online. I get random emails from time to time from my little website and generally they are offering me cards at whatever the prices they see on EBAY or perhaps something they read in a message board thread. Sometimes even higher.
Lee you are in the business of buying and selling collectibles. If I have a bunch of raw cards and you purchase them and get them graded your immediate game plan is to win. Once the buyer and seller agree on a price it is over.
If someone came to me and said I have these cards for sale and I want X, I just don't see it as my responsibility to tell them that is to low. Where did they get the price they are asking? A friend, a price guide, an amount they had invested, perhaps a number to pay a bill? There any number of answers to the question.
I have sold a few wrestling cards to board members and they offered me X and I said that was to high and sold them for less. There was a personal element involved in those situations.
I guess the issue becomes where do you draw the line between personal and not.
To me EBAY remains a marketplace of buyers and sellers and in this case I just have to side with the OP. Think how many times a low pop common hits or where a card was bought raw and the value is catapulted by thousands of percent once graded. Why are these okay and hitting a Buy It Now is not? This lady it doesn't appear lost money. She missed out on money.
I am guilty of sending offers to sellers to end an item in a buy it now that was below what I thought the item was worth. Admittedly I like to try and get items at a price that I feel works for me. On the flip side I am also guilty of over paying for a card to keep it out of someone else's collection.
Once an item is listed I view it as fair game. If I am a bad guy for thinking this way I guess that is just how it is.
<< <i>What if $300 is all the OP could afford to spend on the card? Should it go to someone else who could afford more? Once again none of this matters. >>
I know a lot about Jeep Wranglers and plan to buy a 3-5 YO with mid mileage. It's worth $10-12k but I'm going to the dealership today with $300. Wish me luck
<< <i>The buyer knows an awful lot about the seller's circumstances and the card to be just someone who randomly found it and hit the buy it now button.
I think there's more to this than just someone who hit the buy button.
Even though there isn't much she can do to get her card back, eBay has been contacted with both user IDs and all correspondences to see if they are connected somehow.
If this is all true, I can understand the OPs excitement, but show an ounce of class by not publicly announcing that
"she obviously didn't know what she had"
"she was dumb to sell it and it's worth a lot more if it's real. Thank goodness she had already sent it lol."
"So her mistake is my gain I guess"
"So I feel bad for the lady in one sense as she def didn't know what she had." >>
I have nothing to add to this thread other than one observation--The guy making the biggest stink in this thread has no issues with contacting Ebay (he's mentioned it before in other threads as well) to do what he thinks is right, yet he's had threads about the finds at the Goodwill store he works at. Not to mention, but isn't he also the fake Gretzky guy?
"never get cheated"
the seller in question seems to have been rather busy unloading all sorts of personal goods on eBay over the past year, and what prevents us from wondering how many of those other items were undersold? probably none. at least, not the panties.
raise your hand if you once had a great score, flipped it for huge profit, then turned around and "re-invested" your winnings in more cards or whatever you chase.
now, you're a driving force behind a market which is dependent on your participation. these dollar signs are just stuff that gets made up as we go along. if someone was crazy enough to pay 10K+ for that Ripken card, then it has a back history which can be located by anyone else willing to sell one and do their diligent research.
who told the seller to offer it up for $300? maybe this person thought they were getting one heckuva price for it and they will be just as happy with the funds received as they were with the nickels and dimes earned on the hundreds of items sold prior to young Mr. Ripken.
<< <i>
<< <i>What if $300 is all the OP could afford to spend on the card? Should it go to someone else who could afford more? Once again none of this matters. >>
I know a lot about Jeep Wranglers and plan to buy a 3-5 YO with mid mileage. It's worth $10-12k but I'm going to the dealership today with $300. Wish me luck
So if a seller listed one for $300 you would politely email them and say they need to raise the price because it is to low. Sure.
What I find amusing about you indicating my morals are in the gutter is that I have been one of the more generous people quietly on this board. My only request was to keep it to themselves. A few came out and thanked me publicly even though I requested them not to.
A few years back I was involved in perhaps the most embarrassing buy on these boards since I have joined. I bought a 1963 Topps Rookie of the hit by pitch king and not the hits king in haste thinking it was a different card. It was my fault that I paid 20 times what the card generally sold for. Was the seller fishing for an idiot like me. Yes. Is it their fault that someone came along and bit the hook? No.
I took delivery of the card and sold it it for a 90% loss. Lesson learned.
It's no wonder kids don't think it's fun any more.
I am sure you also remember back in 1990 when some kid went into a card store and purchased a Ryan rookie for $12. The owner priced the card at 1200 but maybe missed the decimal point and the the employee who was behind the counter sold it at $12 because they were on the phone and didn't pay closer attention or were simply too distracted. The whole thing went to court and neither the kid nor the card store owner got to keep the card and it went to auction for charity is what I recall reading. Now THAT was a different case. That card should have gone back to the owner. Why? Because it was a moral issue. The store had it priced CORRECTLY and they KNEW what they had and wanted $1200 for it. Unfortunately the person behind the counter wasn't familiar with the card and mixed up the price.
OP, once again, congrats on your pick up. It looks real and hopefully it is.
<< <i>It's no wonder kids don't think it's fun any more. >>
i don't think you're giving kids enough credit. you might be shocked to find out how some proficient little players have yet to shave.