<< <i>Hey, do what you got to do. Make money, make money, make money. That's all that matters. You got ripped off? Well shame on you for not knowing better.
But sooner or later, life will kick in. And in life, everyone needs somebody. Some people know this, others will learn it the hard way.
I have to say, I've learned a great deal from this thread about members of this board. I'm not saying people should shy from a goo deal, but there's a difference. >>
I fall into the evil money, money, money, category who thinks that someone who is capable of listing hundreds of items on EBAY should do a little market research.
This is the most expensive item this seller has sold in their recent sales run by a mile.
It wouldn't surprise me if the seller was doing cart wheels for getting this much cash in from a sale.[/q
That's cool. We all have to make our own decisions on what is and what is not acceptable. I'm not here to say that one path is better or worse than the next. I'm just saying that this is a much smaller hobby community than we think it is. Do what you want and what you do will determine what happens. >>
If someone doesn't want to do business with me because I believe in the free market so be it.
<< <i>Hey, do what you got to do. Make money, make money, make money. That's all that matters. You got ripped off? Well shame on you for not knowing better.
But sooner or later, life will kick in. And in life, everyone needs somebody. Some people know this, others will learn it the hard way.
I have to say, I've learned a great deal from this thread about members of this board. I'm not saying people should shy from a goo deal, but there's a difference. >>
I fall into the evil money, money, money, category who thinks that someone who is capable of listing hundreds of items on EBAY should do a little market research.
This is the most expensive item this seller has sold in their recent sales run by a mile.
It wouldn't surprise me if the seller was doing cart wheels for getting this much cash in from a sale.[/q
That's cool. We all have to make our own decisions on what is and what is not acceptable. I'm not here to say that one path is better or worse than the next. I'm just saying that this is a much smaller hobby community than we think it is. Do what you want and what you do will determine what happens. >>
If someone doesn't want to do business with me because I believe in the free market so be it. >>
I doubt anyone reading this thread will walk away with the opinion not to do business with you. Like I said, this is a sensitive topic and everyone will come up with their own opinion. I doubt anyone reading this thread will decide to not do business with anyone. I'm just saying that we tend to only see what's right in front of us and that view is myopic. But, and this has been established without question, I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.
<< <i> 4) If you can buy a card for 3% of its value from someone that's clearly ignorant to its value and not feel any responsibility to give something back, then your values lie in attaining things and improving your life above helping people. In the end, that's what it comes down to. If you don't want to help people, that's your prerogative. But when the time comes that you need help in some fashion from someone you don't know, don't expect it to be there.
My personal opinion is that the world has an over-abundance of people only looking out for themselves. Their justification for this view is that the world is full of people only looking out for themselves, so why shouldn't they. I choose not to be part of that group. To not have sympathy for others and to expect others to not have sympathy for you is a very cold way to approach life. >>
As usual, Lee is spot on.
The way I look at this is how would I feel if this elderly widow, living on disability, and selling her dead husband's possessions in order to pay for heat during the cold east coast winter was my mother?
The OP obviously delighted in giving the back story and gloating about pulling one over on this woman. His story of how this went from an auction to a BIN, while possible, seems sketchy to me. Much like how he was sketchy on the Registry forum, not originally disclosing he was the one who purchased the item when he asked people's opinions.
I don't think the OP would be getting as much grief had he just said he purchased the card via BIN up front... without being sketchy about it or getting into the back story.
Oh... and while I fundamentally agree with Patrick's (and many others) view on this matter... I also agree contacting the seller was a DB move and, unfortunately, not entirely atypical with past behavior. The OP made it clear he had already received the card and sent it to PSA, so why contact the seller other than to create regret for her and more board drama?
I also agree that contacting the lady was incredibly dumb and pointless. It reminds me of the guy with the laser pointer at the Lions game who just got banned for life. No matter how much he wanted to play a part in the game's outcome, it wasn't his place and he overstepped what was allowable for a sideline observer. The real irony is now the that the lady knows exactly how much money she missed out on and that complete strangers are calling her names, she probably feels infinitely worse about this situation. How exactly does this improve the situation for her in any way?
<< <i>... The real irony is now the that the lady knows exactly how much money she missed out on and that complete strangers are calling her names, she probably feels infinitely worse about this situation. How exactly does this improve the situation for her in any way?
Lee >>
Yup. When I sell "rare" crap on Ebay, or a garage sale, it's gone and out of my house. If the guy that buys it from me sells it for more good for him. However, I don't want to know about it.
The way I look at this is how would I feel if this elderly widow, living on disability, and selling her dead husband's possessions in order to pay for heat during the cold east coast winter was my mother?
The OP obviously delighted in giving the back story and gloating about pulling one over on this woman. His story of how this went from an auction to a BIN, while possible, seems sketchy to me. Much like how he was sketchy on the Registry forum, not originally disclosing he was the one who purchased the item when he asked people's opinions.
I don't think the OP would be getting as much grief had he just said he purchased the card via BIN up front... without being sketchy about it or getting into the back story.
Oh... and while I fundamentally agree with Patrick's (and many others) view on this matter... I also agree contacting the seller was a DB move and, unfortunately, not entirely atypical with past behavior. The OP made it clear he had already received the card and sent it to PSA, so why contact the seller other than to create regret for her and more board drama?
Again I just want to say I went on eBay and saw this card. I asked the seller if it was original she sad yes I bought it. I was not the one that asked her to sell it a as a BIN somebody else did, I just happened to but it first. After buying the card yes I did ask the seller how she obtained the card, only trying to figure out if the card could be real(that was all). I posted the card on the other forum because those guys have more knowledge then I do, I didn't want to feel dumb if they all came out and were like that's an obvious fake. And I never gloated about pulling one over on this woman. My only statement I made was that she didn't know what she had. As far as people telling her what she sold and was dumb was def dumb in my opinion, like rubbing salt in the wound. She had contacted me several times since auction ended. She is not mad at me at all, she assumes responsibility as she is the one that choose to sell it at BIN, she was upset because somebody sent this link of this forum to her and a lot of people were making fun of her. that's all she's really upset at. I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I don't think it was a mistake in the sense that giving money to a homeless guy who then proceeds to buy crack is a mistake. Your intentions were not bad. Your original posts will most likely help out some collector in the future. The spin on the situation that has resulted from multiple people (myself included) and actions some have taken is nothing you can control.
Yes, some bad came out of it all. But there's some good as well. In a sense, it gives everybody hope that there are still good buys out there which is a good thing. 100 out of 100 people on this board would hit a $300 BIN on a $10k card, and I think we can all agree that it's better you got it than the scumbag that convinced her to sell it for $300 knowing full well what it was worth.
<< <i>I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I don't think it was a mistake in the sense that giving money to a homeless guy who then proceeds to buy crack is a mistake. Your intentions were not bad. Your original posts will most likely help out some collector in the future. The spin on the situation that has resulted from multiple people (myself included) and actions some have taken is nothing you can control.
Yes, some bad came out of it all. But there's some good as well. In a sense, it gives everybody hope that there are still good buys out there which is a good thing. 100 out of 100 people on this board would hit a $300 BIN on a $10k card, and I think we can all agree that it's better you got it than the scumbag that convinced her to sell it for $300 knowing full well what it was worth.
Lee >>
I agree I think this will turn out to be a + for you both. I know if I bought it I would have kept it to my self and would have never known the circumstances of the seller. This way it looks like she's going to receive a nice little kick back. Hope it grades well!
I'd like to say that some of the responses here surprise me... but sadly, they don't. Some of the posters here are such unbelievable hypocrites.
If this story was about witnessing a DEALER do the exact same thing...buying a rare item from an unknowing seller for 3% of its worth...they sure as heck wouldn't be saying "Oh well, tough luck, she should have done the proper research"...they would be foaming at the mouth, calling him scum and organizing a boycott.
On the other side of the coin...if this card had been purchased from an unknowing dealer at $300, then one could argue that as a professional who sells these for a living, then he should have known what he had.
But that was not the case here, not by a long shot. This lady is selling random stuff to pay bills and had no clue what the item was. She got set up to be ripped, only in this instance it seems a different person stole the 'rip' away via lucky timing.
All of that said... assuming that it wasn't changed to a BIN at OP's request, it was a legit BIN- so OP has no obligation to kick back some of the profit...though I would suggest that there is perhaps a moral incentive to do so.
<< <i>I'd like to say that some of the responses here surprise me... but sadly, they don't. Some of the posters here are such unbelievable hypocrites. >>
I'm shocked, shocked to find that hipocricy is going on in here!
I think most guys have a soft spot when it comes to old ladies. Who really wants to be known for taking advantage of the misfortune of an old lady who needs money?
Of course, like mentioned above, how do we know the seller isn't some 40 year old guy using the 'selling my dead husband's collection' sales pitch in order to garner some sympathy bids...and had the tables turned on him when he unknowingly listed a 10k card for $300?
Has anyone ACTUALLY talked to this person via the phone? Like others have said, maybe it isn't an old lady. Maybe it's someone else. There's no way to prove via e-mails that it's an old lady.
Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.
<< <i>I'd like to say that some of the responses here surprise me... but sadly, they don't. Some of the posters here are such unbelievable hypocrites.
If this story was about witnessing a DEALER do the exact same thing...buying a rare item from an unknowing seller for 3% of its worth...they sure as heck wouldn't be saying "Oh well, tough luck, she should have done the proper research"...they would be foaming at the mouth, calling him scum and organizing a boycott.
On the other side of the coin...if this card had been purchased from an unknowing dealer at $300, then one could argue that as a professional who sells these for a living, then he should have known what he had.
But that was not the case here, not by a long shot. This lady is selling random stuff to pay bills and had no clue what the item was. She got set up to be ripped, only in this instance it seems a different person stole the 'rip' away via lucky timing.
All of that said... assuming that it wasn't changed to a BIN at OP's request, it was a legit BIN- so OP has no obligation to kick back some of the profit...though I would suggest that there is perhaps a moral incentive to do so.
In the end, that's his choice. Not ours. >>
I think you make a good point IF the little old lady (or whoever) approaches the dealer at a card show or in his store for example. Then there is some duty, as a reasonable human being, to pay a reasonable sum for the items offered to you. In this case the "little old lady" listed the card on Ebay. It's a lot different than a dealer purchasing a card. I think, like you say, the buyer is in the clear assuming it was just dumb like timing. Really amazing timing. If he chooses to give her money because of the ridiculous windfall then that's great, and certainly the right thing to do, but I don't think it's the same as a dealer.
Has anyone ACTUALLY talked to this person via the phone? Like others have said, maybe it isn't an old lady. Maybe it's someone else. There's no way to prove via e-mails that it's an old lady.
As much as I would feel bad for the lady if the story is true, I can't formulate a reasonable set of criteria under which a buyer is obligated to educate a seller. If someone sells a mint raw set on ebay, should the buyer educate the seller that it's really worth grading? In a case like that, the seller could still be leaving mega-bucks on the table. Maybe I have a consistency bugaboo, but if I can't clearly and consistently state how a buyer should behave in any circumstance, then I don't feel right criticizing the buyer's behavior.
I bought a raw wacky packages set at a comic book show in 2005 for $200. It was worth at least $600 raw at the time. The seller was using Non-Sport Update as her pricing source, which I knew was out of date and inaccurate. Was I obliged to inform her of that? I had no intent to get the set graded at the time, but I ultimately did and its value soared. Is that wrong? Should I have kicked back a little extra to her years later (I still see her all the time)? It's all too complicated, unless you just decide that as long as the transaction is agreed to by both parties, and there's no badgering or bullying involved, then it's ethical.
<< <i>As much as I would feel bad for the lady if the story is true, I can't formulate a reasonable set of criteria under which a buyer is obligated to educate a seller. If someone sells a mint raw set on ebay, should the buyer educate the seller that it's really worth grading? In a case like that, the seller could still be leaving mega-bucks on the table. Maybe I have a consistency bugaboo, but if I can't clearly and consistently state how a buyer should behave in any circumstance, then I don't feel right criticizing the buyer's behavior.
I bought a raw wacky packages set at a comic book show in 2005 for $200. It was worth at least $600 raw at the time. The seller was using Non-Sport Update as her pricing source, which I knew was out of date and inaccurate. Was I obliged to inform her of that? I had no intent to get the set graded at the time, but I ultimately did and its value soared. Is that wrong? Should I have kicked back a little exra to her years later (I still see her all the time). It's all too complicated, unless you just decide that as long as the transaction is agreed to by both parties, and there's no badgering or bullying involved, then it's ethical. >>
This is said better than I could say it on a forum. And I agree.
<< <i>Has anyone ACTUALLY talked to this person via the phone? Like others have said, maybe it isn't an old lady. Maybe it's someone else. There's no way to prove via e-mails that it's an old lady. >>
You know someone is legit when you talk to them on the phone.
This was my grandma's card, you will be giving that card back to me at once!! Lol, hey if she was willing to sell for $300 that is her problem! She still made a killing on the card if you consider it's worth the year of production, about two cents!
The storage auction analogy is entirely inapposite. The former owner has already lost the property for not paying his storage bills. Your good buy isn't taking advantage of anyone.
I don't think the OP did anything wrong here. It's a BIN he didn't induce. If it's a steal, you hit it.
<< <i>I'd like to say that some of the responses here surprise me... but sadly, they don't. Some of the posters here are such unbelievable hypocrites.
If this story was about witnessing a DEALER do the exact same thing...buying a rare item from an unknowing seller for 3% of its worth...they sure as heck wouldn't be saying "Oh well, tough luck, she should have done the proper research"...they would be foaming at the mouth, calling him scum and organizing a boycott.
On the other side of the coin...if this card had been purchased from an unknowing dealer at $300, then one could argue that as a professional who sells these for a living, then he should have known what he had.
But that was not the case here, not by a long shot. This lady is selling random stuff to pay bills and had no clue what the item was. She got set up to be ripped, only in this instance it seems a different person stole the 'rip' away via lucky timing.
All of that said... assuming that it wasn't changed to a BIN at OP's request, it was a legit BIN- so OP has no obligation to kick back some of the profit...though I would suggest that there is perhaps a moral incentive to do so.
In the end, that's his choice. Not ours. >>
I think you make a good point IF the little old lady (or whoever) approaches the dealer at a card show or in his store for example. Then there is some duty, as a reasonable human being, to pay a reasonable sum for the items offered to you. In this case the "little old lady" listed the card on Ebay. It's a lot different than a dealer purchasing a card. I think, like you say, the buyer is in the clear assuming it was just dumb like timing. Really amazing timing. If he chooses to give her money because of the ridiculous windfall then that's great, and certainly the right thing to do, but I don't think it's the same as a dealer. >>
The only difference is that in one scenario she's getting ripped off face to face. Otherwise there's no difference whatsoever.
<< <i>I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I don't think it was a mistake in the sense that giving money to a homeless guy who then proceeds to buy crack is a mistake. Your intentions were not bad. Your original posts will most likely help out some collector in the future. The spin on the situation that has resulted from multiple people (myself included) and actions some have taken is nothing you can control.
Yes, some bad came out of it all. But there's some good as well. In a sense, it gives everybody hope that there are still good buys out there which is a good thing. 100 out of 100 people on this board would hit a $300 BIN on a $10k card, and I think we can all agree that it's better you got it than the scumbag that convinced her to sell it for $300 knowing full well what it was worth.
<< <i>I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I don't think it was a mistake in the sense that giving money to a homeless guy who then proceeds to buy crack is a mistake. Your intentions were not bad. Your original posts will most likely help out some collector in the future. The spin on the situation that has resulted from multiple people (myself included) and actions some have taken is nothing you can control.
Yes, some bad came out of it all. But there's some good as well. In a sense, it gives everybody hope that there are still good buys out there which is a good thing. 100 out of 100 people on this board would hit a $300 BIN on a $10k card, and I think we can all agree that it's better you got it than the scumbag that convinced her to sell it for $300 knowing full well what it was worth.
Lee >>
It's a sad situation. But, like you said, there's a lot of positives too.
Great that it's going to Ripken collector. LOVE how the scumbag who convinced her to relist it didn't get it in time.
How many times have we seen sob story listings abot a wido selling her husbands card collection and doesn't know much about them ect... And they turn about to be a bunch of reprinted 52 topps. I kinda take these stories with a grain of salt. Also, there really isn't any excuse to not know what you have.. Just google it and you can get all the info you need.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Wonder why she did not do her research BEFORE putting the card up for auction. She did go through the trouble of research after she pulled the card from the auction, so she was capable enough to do research.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
One that sticks out is a buy of a Craig Biggio that was a $3 buy and later sold for a $1,000.
This is no different then the example being debated. The same exact card sold for 333.33 times as much once graded.
>>
That logic is absolutely flawed.
What if someone buys it for one cent and sells it for $3.33? Is that no different too? Obviously there is a huge difference between $10,000 and $333.
Lots of illogical analogies in this thread. >>
Illogical. Sure.
Just another example how in many cases card transactions are a zero sum game. Somebody wins and somebody loses.
Next time you get a raw copy of a card you know is worth way more graded, email the seller and let them know your plans and send them a few bucks when you get it back from PSA.
Profit is profit. It doesn't matter how it was derived.
Comments
<< <i>I bet you were the one who originally offered $300
No, I would have offered something reasonable and she would have turned me down and cussed me out.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey, do what you got to do. Make money, make money, make money. That's all that matters. You got ripped off? Well shame on you for not knowing better.
But sooner or later, life will kick in. And in life, everyone needs somebody. Some people know this, others will learn it the hard way.
I have to say, I've learned a great deal from this thread about members of this board. I'm not saying people should shy from a goo deal, but there's a difference. >>
I fall into the evil money, money, money, category who thinks that someone who is capable of listing hundreds of items on EBAY should do a little market research.
Sales Results
This is the most expensive item this seller has sold in their recent sales run by a mile.
It wouldn't surprise me if the seller was doing cart wheels for getting this much cash in from a sale.[/q
That's cool. We all have to make our own decisions on what is and what is not acceptable. I'm not here to say that one path is better or worse than the next. I'm just saying that this is a much smaller hobby community than we think it is. Do what you want and what you do will determine what happens. >>
If someone doesn't want to do business with me because I believe in the free market so be it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey, do what you got to do. Make money, make money, make money. That's all that matters. You got ripped off? Well shame on you for not knowing better.
But sooner or later, life will kick in. And in life, everyone needs somebody. Some people know this, others will learn it the hard way.
I have to say, I've learned a great deal from this thread about members of this board. I'm not saying people should shy from a goo deal, but there's a difference. >>
I fall into the evil money, money, money, category who thinks that someone who is capable of listing hundreds of items on EBAY should do a little market research.
Sales Results
This is the most expensive item this seller has sold in their recent sales run by a mile.
It wouldn't surprise me if the seller was doing cart wheels for getting this much cash in from a sale.[/q
That's cool. We all have to make our own decisions on what is and what is not acceptable. I'm not here to say that one path is better or worse than the next. I'm just saying that this is a much smaller hobby community than we think it is. Do what you want and what you do will determine what happens. >>
If someone doesn't want to do business with me because I believe in the free market so be it. >>
I doubt anyone reading this thread will walk away with the opinion not to do business with you. Like I said, this is a sensitive topic and everyone will come up with their own opinion. I doubt anyone reading this thread will decide to not do business with anyone. I'm just saying that we tend to only see what's right in front of us and that view is myopic. But, and this has been established without question, I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.
<< <i>The bottom line question.
Is it ok to take advantage of someone that did not do their due diligence?
I don't know the answer to this question. >>
I edited my previous post changing "stupid" to " do their due diligence."
I got caught up in people bashing this woman. Not sure why.
It was a mistake for her not to do more research.
Who hasn't made a mistake or should have done something differently?
Just about anyone's life could be examined and see equally poor decisions. I guarantee it.
<< <i>
4) If you can buy a card for 3% of its value from someone that's clearly ignorant to its value and not feel any responsibility to give something back, then your values lie in attaining things and improving your life above helping people. In the end, that's what it comes down to. If you don't want to help people, that's your prerogative. But when the time comes that you need help in some fashion from someone you don't know, don't expect it to be there.
My personal opinion is that the world has an over-abundance of people only looking out for themselves. Their justification for this view is that the world is full of people only looking out for themselves, so why shouldn't they. I choose not to be part of that group. To not have sympathy for others and to expect others to not have sympathy for you is a very cold way to approach life.
>>
As usual, Lee is spot on.
The way I look at this is how would I feel if this elderly widow, living on disability, and selling her dead husband's possessions in order to pay for heat during the cold east coast winter was my mother?
The OP obviously delighted in giving the back story and gloating about pulling one over on this woman. His story of how this went from an auction to a BIN, while possible, seems sketchy to me. Much like how he was sketchy on the Registry forum, not originally disclosing he was the one who purchased the item when he asked people's opinions.
I don't think the OP would be getting as much grief had he just said he purchased the card via BIN up front... without being sketchy about it or getting into the back story.
Oh... and while I fundamentally agree with Patrick's (and many others) view on this matter... I also agree contacting the seller was a DB move and, unfortunately, not entirely atypical with past behavior. The OP made it clear he had already received the card and sent it to PSA, so why contact the seller other than to create regret for her and more board drama?
Snorto~
I completely agree with this assessment.
I also agree that contacting the lady was incredibly dumb and pointless. It reminds me of the guy with the laser pointer at the Lions game who just got banned for life. No matter how much he wanted to play a part in the game's outcome, it wasn't his place and he overstepped what was allowable for a sideline observer. The real irony is now the that the lady knows exactly how much money she missed out on and that complete strangers are calling her names, she probably feels infinitely worse about this situation. How exactly does this improve the situation for her in any way?
Lee
<< <i>... The real irony is now the that the lady knows exactly how much money she missed out on and that complete strangers are calling her names, she probably feels infinitely worse about this situation. How exactly does this improve the situation for her in any way?
Lee >>
Yup. When I sell "rare" crap on Ebay, or a garage sale, it's gone and out of my house. If the guy that buys it from me sells it for more good for him. However, I don't want to know about it.
As usual, Lee is spot on.
The way I look at this is how would I feel if this elderly widow, living on disability, and selling her dead husband's possessions in order to pay for heat during the cold east coast winter was my mother?
The OP obviously delighted in giving the back story and gloating about pulling one over on this woman. His story of how this went from an auction to a BIN, while possible, seems sketchy to me. Much like how he was sketchy on the Registry forum, not originally disclosing he was the one who purchased the item when he asked people's opinions.
I don't think the OP would be getting as much grief had he just said he purchased the card via BIN up front... without being sketchy about it or getting into the back story.
Oh... and while I fundamentally agree with Patrick's (and many others) view on this matter... I also agree contacting the seller was a DB move and, unfortunately, not entirely atypical with past behavior. The OP made it clear he had already received the card and sent it to PSA, so why contact the seller other than to create regret for her and more board drama?
Again I just want to say I went on eBay and saw this card. I asked the seller if it was original she sad yes I bought it.
I was not the one that asked her to sell it a as a BIN somebody else did, I just happened to but it first.
After buying the card yes I did ask the seller how she obtained the card, only trying to figure out if the card could be real(that was all).
I posted the card on the other forum because those guys have more knowledge then I do, I didn't want to feel dumb if they all came out and were like that's an obvious fake.
And I never gloated about pulling one over on this woman. My only statement I made was that she didn't know what she had.
As far as people telling her what she sold and was dumb was def dumb in my opinion, like rubbing salt in the wound.
She had contacted me several times since auction ended. She is not mad at me at all, she assumes responsibility as she is the one that choose to sell it at BIN, she was upset because somebody sent this link of this forum to her and a lot of people were making fun of her. that's all she's really upset at. I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I don't think it was a mistake in the sense that giving money to a homeless guy who then proceeds to buy crack is a mistake. Your intentions were not bad. Your original posts will most likely help out some collector in the future. The spin on the situation that has resulted from multiple people (myself included) and actions some have taken is nothing you can control.
Yes, some bad came out of it all. But there's some good as well. In a sense, it gives everybody hope that there are still good buys out there which is a good thing. 100 out of 100 people on this board would hit a $300 BIN on a $10k card, and I think we can all agree that it's better you got it than the scumbag that convinced her to sell it for $300 knowing full well what it was worth.
Lee
<< <i>I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I don't think it was a mistake in the sense that giving money to a homeless guy who then proceeds to buy crack is a mistake. Your intentions were not bad. Your original posts will most likely help out some collector in the future. The spin on the situation that has resulted from multiple people (myself included) and actions some have taken is nothing you can control.
Yes, some bad came out of it all. But there's some good as well. In a sense, it gives everybody hope that there are still good buys out there which is a good thing. 100 out of 100 people on this board would hit a $300 BIN on a $10k card, and I think we can all agree that it's better you got it than the scumbag that convinced her to sell it for $300 knowing full well what it was worth.
Lee >>
I agree I think this will turn out to be a + for you both. I know if I bought it I would have kept it to my self and would have never known the circumstances of the seller. This way it looks like she's going to receive a nice little kick back. Hope it grades well!
<< <i>Remember the elderly lady who almost sold this card for $10? >>
$10 was just the starting price for the auction. It could have sold for many thousands if she had let the auction run.
If this story was about witnessing a DEALER do the exact same thing...buying a rare item from an unknowing seller for 3% of its worth...they sure as heck wouldn't be saying "Oh well, tough luck, she should have done the proper research"...they would be foaming at the mouth, calling him scum and organizing a boycott.
On the other side of the coin...if this card had been purchased from an unknowing dealer at $300, then one could argue that as a professional who sells these for a living, then he should have known what he had.
But that was not the case here, not by a long shot. This lady is selling random stuff to pay bills and had no clue what the item was. She got set up to be ripped, only in this instance it seems a different person stole the 'rip' away via lucky timing.
All of that said... assuming that it wasn't changed to a BIN at OP's request, it was a legit BIN- so OP has no obligation to kick back some of the profit...though I would suggest that there is perhaps a moral incentive to do so.
In the end, that's his choice. Not ours.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I'd like to say that some of the responses here surprise me... but sadly, they don't. Some of the posters here are such unbelievable hypocrites. >>
I'm shocked, shocked to find that hipocricy is going on in here!
Of course, like mentioned above, how do we know the seller isn't some 40 year old guy using the 'selling my dead husband's collection' sales pitch in order to garner some sympathy bids...and had the tables turned on him when he unknowingly listed a 10k card for $300?
<< <i>I'd like to say that some of the responses here surprise me... but sadly, they don't. Some of the posters here are such unbelievable hypocrites.
If this story was about witnessing a DEALER do the exact same thing...buying a rare item from an unknowing seller for 3% of its worth...they sure as heck wouldn't be saying "Oh well, tough luck, she should have done the proper research"...they would be foaming at the mouth, calling him scum and organizing a boycott.
On the other side of the coin...if this card had been purchased from an unknowing dealer at $300, then one could argue that as a professional who sells these for a living, then he should have known what he had.
But that was not the case here, not by a long shot. This lady is selling random stuff to pay bills and had no clue what the item was. She got set up to be ripped, only in this instance it seems a different person stole the 'rip' away via lucky timing.
All of that said... assuming that it wasn't changed to a BIN at OP's request, it was a legit BIN- so OP has no obligation to kick back some of the profit...though I would suggest that there is perhaps a moral incentive to do so.
In the end, that's his choice. Not ours. >>
I think you make a good point IF the little old lady (or whoever) approaches the dealer at a card show or in his store for example. Then there is some duty, as a reasonable human being, to pay a reasonable sum for the items offered to you. In this case the "little old lady" listed the card on Ebay. It's a lot different than a dealer purchasing a card. I think, like you say, the buyer is in the clear assuming it was just dumb like timing. Really amazing timing. If he chooses to give her money because of the ridiculous windfall then that's great, and certainly the right thing to do, but I don't think it's the same as a dealer.
Does this women's name happen to be Felicia?
Always plenty of PSA-graded cards in my ebay store -- https://ebay.com/str/thelumbercompanysportscards
I bought a raw wacky packages set at a comic book show in 2005 for $200. It was worth at least $600 raw at the time. The seller was using Non-Sport Update as her pricing source, which I knew was out of date and inaccurate. Was I obliged to inform her of that? I had no intent to get the set graded at the time, but I ultimately did and its value soared. Is that wrong? Should I have kicked back a little extra to her years later (I still see her all the time)? It's all too complicated, unless you just decide that as long as the transaction is agreed to by both parties, and there's no badgering or bullying involved, then it's ethical.
<< <i>As much as I would feel bad for the lady if the story is true, I can't formulate a reasonable set of criteria under which a buyer is obligated to educate a seller. If someone sells a mint raw set on ebay, should the buyer educate the seller that it's really worth grading? In a case like that, the seller could still be leaving mega-bucks on the table. Maybe I have a consistency bugaboo, but if I can't clearly and consistently state how a buyer should behave in any circumstance, then I don't feel right criticizing the buyer's behavior.
I bought a raw wacky packages set at a comic book show in 2005 for $200. It was worth at least $600 raw at the time. The seller was using Non-Sport Update as her pricing source, which I knew was out of date and inaccurate. Was I obliged to inform her of that? I had no intent to get the set graded at the time, but I ultimately did and its value soared. Is that wrong? Should I have kicked back a little exra to her years later (I still see her all the time). It's all too complicated, unless you just decide that as long as the transaction is agreed to by both parties, and there's no badgering or bullying involved, then it's ethical. >>
This is said better than I could say it on a forum. And I agree.
<< <i>Has anyone ACTUALLY talked to this person via the phone? Like others have said, maybe it isn't an old lady. Maybe it's someone else. There's no way to prove via e-mails that it's an old lady. >>
You know someone is legit when you talk to them on the phone.
Any volunteers willing to put that together?
Also, I'm looking for 1967 Topps Football at the moment.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
One that sticks out is a buy of a Craig Biggio that was a $3 buy and later sold for a $1,000.
This is no different then the example being debated. The same exact card sold for 333.33 times as much once graded.
How can you determine it is okay when it is a condition only issue vs. a card that is always expensive?
You can't.
In both cases the seller left money on the table.
I don't think the OP did anything wrong here. It's a BIN he didn't induce. If it's a steal, you hit it.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>I just went through the best raw card thread.
One that sticks out is a buy of a Craig Biggio that was a $3 buy and later sold for a $1,000.
This is no different then the example being debated. The same exact card sold for 333.33 times as much once graded.
How can you determine it is okay when it is a condition only issue vs. a card that is always expensive?
You can't.
In both cases the seller left money on the table. >>
Oh crap!!! That was my sub!! I've tried so hard to stay out of this thread and you drag me into it David!!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I just went through the best raw card thread.
One that sticks out is a buy of a Craig Biggio that was a $3 buy and later sold for a $1,000.
This is no different then the example being debated. The same exact card sold for 333.33 times as much once graded.
How can you determine it is okay when it is a condition only issue vs. a card that is always expensive?
You can't.
In both cases the seller left money on the table. >>
Oh crap!!! That was my sub!! I've tried so hard to stay out of this thread and you drag me into it David!!!!!
Haha
Well if you have read up to this point you know where I stand on these issues.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd like to say that some of the responses here surprise me... but sadly, they don't. Some of the posters here are such unbelievable hypocrites.
If this story was about witnessing a DEALER do the exact same thing...buying a rare item from an unknowing seller for 3% of its worth...they sure as heck wouldn't be saying "Oh well, tough luck, she should have done the proper research"...they would be foaming at the mouth, calling him scum and organizing a boycott.
On the other side of the coin...if this card had been purchased from an unknowing dealer at $300, then one could argue that as a professional who sells these for a living, then he should have known what he had.
But that was not the case here, not by a long shot. This lady is selling random stuff to pay bills and had no clue what the item was. She got set up to be ripped, only in this instance it seems a different person stole the 'rip' away via lucky timing.
All of that said... assuming that it wasn't changed to a BIN at OP's request, it was a legit BIN- so OP has no obligation to kick back some of the profit...though I would suggest that there is perhaps a moral incentive to do so.
In the end, that's his choice. Not ours. >>
I think you make a good point IF the little old lady (or whoever) approaches the dealer at a card show or in his store for example. Then there is some duty, as a reasonable human being, to pay a reasonable sum for the items offered to you. In this case the "little old lady" listed the card on Ebay. It's a lot different than a dealer purchasing a card. I think, like you say, the buyer is in the clear assuming it was just dumb like timing. Really amazing timing. If he chooses to give her money because of the ridiculous windfall then that's great, and certainly the right thing to do, but I don't think it's the same as a dealer. >>
The only difference is that in one scenario she's getting ripped off face to face. Otherwise there's no difference whatsoever.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I don't think it was a mistake in the sense that giving money to a homeless guy who then proceeds to buy crack is a mistake. Your intentions were not bad. Your original posts will most likely help out some collector in the future. The spin on the situation that has resulted from multiple people (myself included) and actions some have taken is nothing you can control.
Yes, some bad came out of it all. But there's some good as well. In a sense, it gives everybody hope that there are still good buys out there which is a good thing. 100 out of 100 people on this board would hit a $300 BIN on a $10k card, and I think we can all agree that it's better you got it than the scumbag that convinced her to sell it for $300 knowing full well what it was worth.
Lee >>
<< <i>I only posted in this forum to get opinions on the card. Obviously it was a mistake.
I don't think it was a mistake in the sense that giving money to a homeless guy who then proceeds to buy crack is a mistake. Your intentions were not bad. Your original posts will most likely help out some collector in the future. The spin on the situation that has resulted from multiple people (myself included) and actions some have taken is nothing you can control.
Yes, some bad came out of it all. But there's some good as well. In a sense, it gives everybody hope that there are still good buys out there which is a good thing. 100 out of 100 people on this board would hit a $300 BIN on a $10k card, and I think we can all agree that it's better you got it than the scumbag that convinced her to sell it for $300 knowing full well what it was worth.
Lee >>
It's a sad situation. But, like you said, there's a lot of positives too.
Great that it's going to Ripken collector. LOVE how the scumbag who convinced her to relist it didn't get it in time.
What Would Tommy Do?
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>"What would Tommy do" and "was her name Felicia" are the top two comments so far in this thread in my opinion. >>
I guess I'm too new to understand either one.
<< <i>
<< <i>"What would Tommy do" and "was her name Felicia" are the top two comments so far in this thread in my opinion. >>
I guess I'm too new to understand either one. >>
For Felicia, you have to begin by downloading The Kinks Lola
<< <i>I just went through the best raw card thread.
One that sticks out is a buy of a Craig Biggio that was a $3 buy and later sold for a $1,000.
This is no different then the example being debated. The same exact card sold for 333.33 times as much once graded.
>>
That logic is absolutely flawed.
What if someone buys it for one cent and sells it for $3.33? Is that no different too? Obviously there is a huge difference between $10,000 and $333.
Lots of illogical analogies in this thread.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Remember the elderly lady who almost sold this card for $10? >>
Wonder why she did not do her research BEFORE putting the card up for auction. She did go through the trouble of research after she pulled the card from the auction, so she was capable enough to do research.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just went through the best raw card thread.
One that sticks out is a buy of a Craig Biggio that was a $3 buy and later sold for a $1,000.
This is no different then the example being debated. The same exact card sold for 333.33 times as much once graded.
>>
That logic is absolutely flawed.
What if someone buys it for one cent and sells it for $3.33? Is that no different too? Obviously there is a huge difference between $10,000 and $333.
Lots of illogical analogies in this thread. >>
Illogical. Sure.
Just another example how in many cases card transactions are a zero sum game. Somebody wins and somebody loses.
Next time you get a raw copy of a card you know is worth way more graded, email the seller and let them know your plans and send them a few bucks when you get it back from PSA.
Profit is profit. It doesn't matter how it was derived.