No one can disprove a theory like that to one determined to believe it
Ah, the beauty of conspiracies.
This group of rebels had shot down a plane every day this week. They saw one flying high in the sky and some idiot said, "Hey lets see if we can hit that one".
Or maybe the UN was concerned that the progress in AIDS research would lead to continued overpopulation and the burden this would place on poor undeveloped countries. The UN needs to bail out Europe and the USA, not the Congo or Nigeria. They cant spend their resources on countries like that. Just wait till we hear stories about suicides in companies like AMGN and BIIB--scientists who are working on drugs to help people live longer. The USA and Europe cant afford to have people live to 100. Doesnt that make just as much sense?
<< <i>It makes zero sense that this civilian aircraft loaded with innocent people would fly over that region, it was either one of a few things....
A completely stupid airline
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Russian freedom fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Ukrainian fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A CIA Spec-Ops mission at work. >>
We haven't flown over that area since February. We use to cross Ukraine regularly on Paris-Dubai routes. It costs the company extra fuel and time to avoid that region. Maybe that was Malaysia's concern...cost? And, at least we're above FL320(?) As to what the crew was thinking...hard to say there...
It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor.
<< <i>It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor. >>
Appears it was redirected by Air Traffic Control. Which ATC, we may never know. Again I ask, who gains from the tragedy?
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor. >>
Appears it was redirected by Air Traffic Control. Which ATC, we may never know. Again I ask, who gains from the tragedy? >>
It will cost $10 Billion to outfit airlines with anti missile defense systems so these type of weapons cannot lock onto airplanes. This has happened many times in the past, including the U.S. bringing down an Iranian commercial flight in 1998. When a U.S. commercial flight is bought down, my guess they will implement the anti missile defense systems on commercial airlines. The military already uses them.
<< <i>It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor. >>
Appears it was redirected by Air Traffic Control. Which ATC, we may never know. Again I ask, who gains from the tragedy? >>
The simple is no one. >>
I suspect the Ukraine government stands to gain support, particulary from an outraged American congress who has the power to provide them with military hardware in their struggle against the Russian supported separatists. Throughout history dastardly deeds have been done to sway public opinion.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor. >>
Appears it was redirected by Air Traffic Control. Which ATC, we may never know. Again I ask, who gains from the tragedy? >>
The simple is no one. >>
I suspect the Ukraine government stands to gain support, particulary from an outraged American congress who has the power to provide them with military hardware in their struggle against the Russian supported separatists. Throughout history dastardly deeds have been done to sway public opinion. >>
I couldn't agree more. Whether contrived or accidental, public opinion is swaying to Ukraine.
For the rest of you it is far away conflict. Some of my relatives in Donets'k have just fled into the Ukrainian controlled zone up north - but I am very concerned for a couple of them that have to stay because of health problems. People are duct taping windows and cleaning out basements in their buildings as bomb shelters for when and if Ukrainian army moves in. Internet and phone services are getting sporadic because of power cutoffs.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
<< <i> Whether contrived or accidental, public opinion is swaying to Ukraine. >>
Blackwater, the CIA the FSB, Spetnaz are all working very hard behind the scenes to effect a change in government. >>
This will no doubt turn into a proxy war if it already has not, there are so many things going on behind the scenes that none of us could even imagine, Im sure Obama and Putin or spetnaz and CIA already know what the "acceptable" terms are regarding this conflict will be, the rest is just smoke and mirrors.
They were on their way to another African destination. >>
Back in 1999 international flights were not high risk endeavors. Now any international flight into or around the Middle East, or the Ukraine region is pure high risk, Im not kidding when I say that anyone that choses such risk must be willing to accept the gravest possibilities. I know a friend who has a close friend who is flying into Tel-Aviv next week and has no worries about it whatsoever, I tell my friend that her friend is 100% out of her mind.
They were on their way to another African destination. >>
Back in 1999 international flights were not high risk endeavors. Now any international flight into or around the Middle East, or the Ukraine region is pure high risk, Im not kidding when I say that anyone that choses such risk must be willing to accept the gravest possibilities. I know a friend who has a close friend who is flying into Tel-Aviv next week and has no worries about it whatsoever, I tell my friend that her friend is 100% out of her mind. >>
We all are willing to accept varying degrees of risk.
Egypt was a stable and civilized nation a decade and a half ago. Today, along with most of the rest of the Mideast, it is in turmoil.
I went on Spring Break in Egypt while in college. Hired a local taxi to drive my buddy and I all around. The son of a US diplomat also joined us. I sat in the back seat while he and the driver smoked hash. Then I took an all night train to Luxor and an all night bus back to Cairo. Then a bus to Tel Aviv. Three weeks later the same bus to Tel Aviv was blown up. If I had brains I never would have made the trip. Ignorance is bliss.
A decade and a half ago I was also in Egypt. I recall a bus of foreign tourists, I think primarily German, being blown up in the Valley of the Kings or Queens. I also recall seeing young "boys/soldiers" in uniforns carring machine guns on many street corners. The downtown Cairo Hilton Hotel had an airport like metal detector you had to walk thru to enter the lobby. "Stable and civilized" is a relative term.
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The "good ole' days" that codgers remember so fondly, were always "the bad new days" at the time...
"kids these days," they'd lament, or they'd complain about how "the government" is ruining everything, and "society" and "our institutions" are crumbling..
Guess what? Someday, we'll all be dead and gone, the young people of 2014 will be old people, and will view our current era as "the good old days" that they remember so fondly
<< <i>Guess what? Someday, we'll all be dead and gone, the young people of 2014 will be old people, and will view our current era as "the good old days" that they remember so fondly >>
Absolutely, in 2014 they can still sniff some remnants of Democracy and Capitalism. In 20 years they will pay dearly for 50 plus years of liberalism.
This will no doubt turn into a proxy war if it already has not, there are so many things going on behind the scenes that none of us could even imagine, Im sure Obama and Putin or spetnaz and CIA already know what the "acceptable" terms are regarding this conflict will be, the rest is just smoke and mirrors. >>
A lot like the proxy war in Korea and Viet-Nam. It is now openly reported that Soviet airmen were flying N. Korean marked MiG-15s in the first, and someday it will be openly reported that they were also flying MiG-21s in Viet-Nam. CIA operatives were supplying intel and missiles to the pre-Al Qaeda terrorists in Afghanistan that were then referred to as "Afghan Freedom Fighters" - nothing like building up your future enemy.
A friend of mine that now lives in Russia due to Crimea being absorbed used to guard Tu-160 bombers near the end of the USSR. We have had some interesting conversations about our exposure to the air wing of the military.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
a video has now surfaced that claims to be footage of MH17 taking the missile hit and it's firey descent to earth. My observation of the video: The plane is clearly shown intact descending with one engine engulfed in flames. The BUK missile system is designed to track a target and explode one meter from impact, obliterating it's target into many pieces by peppering it with shrapnel. The footage of the plane fully intact after missile impact and the crash scene photos of large fusualge pieces with no apparant "peppering" of shrapnel tells me that the missile was not a radar guided BUK. The firey engine tells me it was a heat seeker.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>a video has now surfaced that claims to be footage of MH17 taking the missile hit and it's firey descent to earth. My observation of the video: The plane is clearly shown intact descending with one engine engulfed in flames. The BUK missile system is designed to track a target and explode one meter from impact, obliterating it's target into many pieces by peppering it with shrapnel. The footage of the plane fully intact after missile impact and the crash scene photos of large fusualge pieces with no apparant "peppering" of shrapnel tells me that the missile was not a radar guided BUK. The firely engine tells me it was a heat seeker. >>
The crash site is reportedly spead out over many miles and initial reports said bodies and debris were seen falling from the sky with blown apart pieces of the fusilage falling which would support the plane being blown apart in the sky. When I watch the video it appears the plane remains intact as it plunges. It thus seems to be 2 different scenarios. Video of a different plane hit with a heat seaker yes but images and reports of MH17 crash site and witnesses support an in air disintegration. I do not think the video is of MH17. Excuse my typos.
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The missiles can also be set to explode on contact. Why are there bodies miles away from the impact site it the plane was intact and a debris field 6 miles long?
<< <i>a video has now surfaced that claims to be footage of MH17 taking the missile hit and it's firey descent to earth. My observation of the video: The plane is clearly shown intact descending with one engine engulfed in flames. The BUK missile system is designed to track a target and explode one meter from impact, obliterating it's target into many pieces by peppering it with shrapnel. The footage of the plane fully intact after missile impact and the crash scene photos of large fusualge pieces with no apparant "peppering" of shrapnel tells me that the missile was not a radar guided BUK. The firely engine tells me it was a heat seeker. >>
The crash site is reportedly spead out over many miles and initial reports said bodies and debris were seen falling from the sky with blown apart pieces of the fusilage falling which would support the plane being blown apart in the sky. When I watch the video it appears the plane remains intact as it plunges. It thus seems to be 2 different scenarios. Video of a different plane hit with a heat seaker yes but images and reports of MH17 crash site and witnesses support an in air disintegration. I do not think the video is of MH17. Excuse my typos. >>
Supposedly one female passenger hit someone's roof and ended up in their kitchen.
<< <i>The missiles can also be set to explode on contact. Why are there bodies miles away from the impact site it the plane was intact and a debris field 6 miles long? >>
The release of destructive shrapnel before impact is a key and desirable feature of the BUK to ensure it will bring a plane down. I see no advantage in overiding this feature. Note that the video does not show the final seconds during which the plane could have exploded before impact. We may never know the truth on this event. If in fact this is a video of MH17, I find it strange that someone just happened to have a camera pointed in the sky at the time of the strike.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>I went on Spring Break in Egypt while in college. Hired a local taxi to drive my buddy and I all around. The son of a US diplomat also joined us. I sat in the back seat while he and the driver smoked hash. Then I took an all night train to Luxor and an all night bus back to Cairo. Then a bus to Tel Aviv. Three weeks later the same bus to Tel Aviv was blown up. If I had brains I never would have made the trip. Ignorance is bliss. >>
<< <i>I don't recall seeing any smoke trail in the video showing the impact with the ground.
The video of the intact plane with an engine on fire is most likely Russian propaganda. >>
Do the Russkies have photoshop, too? >>
Kind of crude, but they invented photoshopping to get rid of "enemies of the people" out of photographs of their leaders. So went Bulganin, Kirov, Trotsky
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
". . . it is very difficult to sort through all the propaganda. Both sides are involved." - MISH >>
That is an example of stuff I see all the time with both western and Russian media. Understanding the languages being spoken, being able to read street signs etc is a definite plus in sifting through competing opinions. Just tonight I was watching BBC report about the bombing of the train station in Donets'k - very familiar site to me having done lots of Donets'k - Kyiv night trains.
In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
This may have been said on an earlier page, but ... I don't see how anybody on the ground (io, Ukrainian or Russian fighters) could mistake a double-wide Boeing jet for a thin military aircraft. Commercial jets are bright white with company insignia and do not travel nearly as fast as fighter jets, which are often grey or dark blue or camouflage. Not to mention, zero artillery hanging from their wings. IMHO this was no accident at all. Everyone seems concerned about how it was shot down. My concern: when will the responsible party be held accountable?
Regarding Egypt and Middle East travel, definitely riskier now then before the Arab Spring and Crimea invasion. However, when I visited Israel in 1997, I was amazed how peaceful and pleasant things were (yes there was some fighting in the news). Western media makes a concerted effort to showcase and over-dramatize the attacks. For ratings, of course. And certain news stations such as NPR are heavily slanted against one side or the other (NPR is very pro-Hamas; why, beats the heck outta me). My point is this ... I have friends who live in Israel. Things are definitely not great, but they also are always better then we Americans believe things to be. Egypt is no different.
It's true that Hamas has fired about 1,000 rockets at Israel. But this is not the constant state of things. And it's happened before, sometimes in the news and sometimes not even. My point ... saying these days aren't as good as the good old days ... well not much has changed so if it seems worse then before ... it ain't.
<< <i>It's true that Hamas has fired about 1,000 rockets at Israel. But this is not the constant state of things. And it's happened before, sometimes in the news and sometimes not even. My point ... saying these days aren't as good as the good old days ... well not much has changed so if it seems worse then before ... it ain't. >>
Excepting that the European economy is still so brittle that they can not/will not stand up to Putin. US is not far behind.
As I mentioned before, I believe that Merkel has the fortitude to do the right thing. Hope so.
Comments
…. when several hundred loving people were lost in the flip of a switch.
HE>I
Ah, the beauty of conspiracies.
This group of rebels had shot down a plane every day this week. They saw one flying high in the sky and some idiot said, "Hey lets see if we can hit that one".
Or maybe the UN was concerned that the progress in AIDS research would lead to continued overpopulation and the burden this would place on poor undeveloped countries. The UN needs to bail out Europe and the USA, not the Congo or Nigeria. They cant spend their resources on countries like that. Just wait till we hear stories about suicides in companies like AMGN and BIIB--scientists who are working on drugs to help people live longer. The USA and Europe cant afford to have people live to 100. Doesnt that make just as much sense?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Everybody in Rooskie luv Comrade Pooty,
Some don't but they have a dinner guest tonight,
Polonium 210
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
A completely stupid airline
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Russian freedom fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Ukrainian fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A CIA Spec-Ops mission at work.
<< <i>It makes zero sense that this civilian aircraft loaded with innocent people would fly over that region, it was either one of a few things....
A completely stupid airline
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Russian freedom fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Ukrainian fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A CIA Spec-Ops mission at work. >>
I'll take door B.
Please N.B. my sig line.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Please N.B. my sig line. >>
Very true, David. We do need a good open forum!
<< <i>It makes zero sense that this civilian aircraft loaded with innocent people would fly over that region, it was either one of a few things....
A completely stupid airline
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Russian freedom fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Ukrainian fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A CIA Spec-Ops mission at work. >>
We haven't flown over that area since February. We use to cross Ukraine regularly on Paris-Dubai routes. It costs the company extra fuel and time to avoid that region. Maybe that was Malaysia's concern...cost? And, at least we're above FL320(?) As to what the crew was thinking...hard to say there...
<< <i>It makes zero sense that this civilian aircraft loaded with innocent people would fly over that region, it was either one of a few things....
A completely stupid airline
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Russian freedom fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A completely stupid airline and some drunk Ukrainian fighters thinking it was a military plane.
A CIA Spec-Ops mission at work. >>
We can agree on all of the above since we will never likely know for certain what happened because all parties involved have something to hide.
<< <i>It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor. >>
Appears it was redirected by Air Traffic Control. Which ATC, we may never know. Again I ask, who gains from the tragedy?
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>
<< <i>It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor. >>
Appears it was redirected by Air Traffic Control. Which ATC, we may never know. Again I ask, who gains from the tragedy? >>
The simple is no one.
Box of 20
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor. >>
Appears it was redirected by Air Traffic Control. Which ATC, we may never know. Again I ask, who gains from the tragedy? >>
The simple is no one. >>
I suspect the Ukraine government stands to gain support, particulary from an outraged American congress who has the power to provide them with military hardware in their struggle against the Russian supported separatists. Throughout history dastardly deeds have been done to sway public opinion.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's my understanding that there is a air corridor carved out over Ukraine that more than a dozen airlines fly on a daily basis. It is also my understanding that MAH17 wasn't in that corridor. >>
Appears it was redirected by Air Traffic Control. Which ATC, we may never know. Again I ask, who gains from the tragedy? >>
The simple is no one. >>
I suspect the Ukraine government stands to gain support, particulary from an outraged American congress who has the power to provide them with military hardware in their struggle against the Russian supported separatists. Throughout history dastardly deeds have been done to sway public opinion. >>
I couldn't agree more.
Whether contrived or accidental, public opinion is swaying to Ukraine.
<< <i>
Whether contrived or accidental, public opinion is swaying to Ukraine. >>
Blackwater, the CIA the FSB, Spetnaz are all working very hard behind the scenes to effect a change in government.
<< <i>For the rest of you it is far away conflict. >>
Yes and no. My cousin and his wife were murdered by a terrorist co pilot in the Egypt Air 990 crash over the Atlantic in 1999.
One has a different view now when a passenger plane is taken down.
The separatists may have one unit of missiles , kiev has 60 obviously , the separatists must have shot it down
some info about "buks"
<< <i>
<< <i>For the rest of you it is far away conflict. >>
Yes and no. My cousin and his wife were murdered by a terrorist co pilot in the Egypt Air 990 crash over the Atlantic in 1999.
One has a different view now when a passenger plane is taken down. >>
YOUR relatives were flying to Cairo?
Hmmmmm....
<< <i>YOUR relatives were flying to Cairo? >>
?
They were on their way to another African destination.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Whether contrived or accidental, public opinion is swaying to Ukraine. >>
Blackwater, the CIA the FSB, Spetnaz are all working very hard behind the scenes to effect a change in government. >>
This will no doubt turn into a proxy war if it already has not, there are so many things going on behind the scenes that none of us could even imagine, Im sure Obama and Putin or spetnaz and CIA already know what the "acceptable" terms are regarding this conflict will be, the rest is just smoke and mirrors.
<< <i>
<< <i>YOUR relatives were flying to Cairo? >>
?
They were on their way to another African destination. >>
Back in 1999 international flights were not high risk endeavors. Now any international flight into or around the Middle East, or the Ukraine region is pure high risk, Im not kidding when I say that anyone that choses such risk must be willing to accept the gravest possibilities. I know a friend who has a close friend who is flying into Tel-Aviv next week and has no worries about it whatsoever, I tell my friend that her friend is 100% out of her mind.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>YOUR relatives were flying to Cairo? >>
?
They were on their way to another African destination. >>
Back in 1999 international flights were not high risk endeavors. Now any international flight into or around the Middle East, or the Ukraine region is pure high risk, Im not kidding when I say that anyone that choses such risk must be willing to accept the gravest possibilities. I know a friend who has a close friend who is flying into Tel-Aviv next week and has no worries about it whatsoever, I tell my friend that her friend is 100% out of her mind. >>
We all are willing to accept varying degrees of risk.
Egypt was a stable and civilized nation a decade and a half ago. Today, along with most of the rest of the Mideast, it is in turmoil.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I recall a bus of foreign tourists, I think primarily German, being blown up in the Valley of the Kings or Queens.
I also recall seeing young "boys/soldiers" in uniforns carring machine guns on many street corners.
The downtown Cairo Hilton Hotel had an airport like metal detector you had to walk thru to enter the lobby.
"Stable and civilized" is a relative term.
<< <i>"Stable and civilized" is a relative term. >>
You were there Mariner so I take you on your word.
Certainly though, things have deteriorated since then.
Renman was in Egypt a couple of years ago. Perhaps he can chime in.
"kids these days," they'd lament, or they'd complain about how "the government" is ruining everything, and "society" and "our institutions" are crumbling..
Guess what? Someday, we'll all be dead and gone, the young people of 2014 will be old people, and will view our current era as "the good old days" that they remember so fondly
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Guess what? Someday, we'll all be dead and gone, the young people of 2014 will be old people, and will view our current era as "the good old days" that they remember so fondly >>
Absolutely, in 2014 they can still sniff some remnants of Democracy and Capitalism. In 20 years they will pay dearly for 50 plus years of liberalism.
HE>I
HE>I
<< <i>
This will no doubt turn into a proxy war if it already has not, there are so many things going on behind the scenes that none of us could even imagine, Im sure Obama and Putin or spetnaz and CIA already know what the "acceptable" terms are regarding this conflict will be, the rest is just smoke and mirrors. >>
A lot like the proxy war in Korea and Viet-Nam. It is now openly reported that Soviet airmen were flying N. Korean marked MiG-15s in the first, and someday it will be openly reported that they were also flying MiG-21s in Viet-Nam. CIA operatives were supplying intel and missiles to the pre-Al Qaeda terrorists in Afghanistan that were then referred to as "Afghan Freedom Fighters" - nothing like building up your future enemy.
A friend of mine that now lives in Russia due to Crimea being absorbed used to guard Tu-160 bombers near the end of the USSR. We have had some interesting conversations about our exposure to the air wing of the military.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>a video has now surfaced that claims to be footage of MH17 taking the missile hit and it's firey descent to earth. My observation of the video: The plane is clearly shown intact descending with one engine engulfed in flames. The BUK missile system is designed to track a target and explode one meter from impact, obliterating it's target into many pieces by peppering it with shrapnel. The footage of the plane fully intact after missile impact and the crash scene photos of large fusualge pieces with no apparant "peppering" of shrapnel tells me that the missile was not a radar guided BUK. The firely engine tells me it was a heat seeker. >>
The crash site is reportedly spead out over many miles and initial reports said bodies and debris were seen falling from the sky with blown apart pieces of the fusilage falling which would support the plane being blown apart in the sky.
When I watch the video it appears the plane remains intact as it plunges.
It thus seems to be 2 different scenarios. Video of a different plane hit with a heat seaker yes but images and reports of MH17 crash site and witnesses support an in air disintegration.
I do not think the video is of MH17.
Excuse my typos.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>a video has now surfaced that claims to be footage of MH17 taking the missile hit and it's firey descent to earth. My observation of the video: The plane is clearly shown intact descending with one engine engulfed in flames. The BUK missile system is designed to track a target and explode one meter from impact, obliterating it's target into many pieces by peppering it with shrapnel. The footage of the plane fully intact after missile impact and the crash scene photos of large fusualge pieces with no apparant "peppering" of shrapnel tells me that the missile was not a radar guided BUK. The firely engine tells me it was a heat seeker. >>
The crash site is reportedly spead out over many miles and initial reports said bodies and debris were seen falling from the sky with blown apart pieces of the fusilage falling which would support the plane being blown apart in the sky.
When I watch the video it appears the plane remains intact as it plunges.
It thus seems to be 2 different scenarios. Video of a different plane hit with a heat seaker yes but images and reports of MH17 crash site and witnesses support an in air disintegration.
I do not think the video is of MH17.
Excuse my typos. >>
Supposedly one female passenger hit someone's roof and ended up in their kitchen.
<< <i>The missiles can also be set to explode on contact. Why are there bodies miles away from the impact site it the plane was intact and a debris field 6 miles long? >>
The release of destructive shrapnel before impact is a key and desirable feature of the BUK to ensure it will bring a plane down. I see no advantage in overiding this feature. Note that the video does not show the final seconds during which the plane could have exploded before impact. We may never know the truth on this event. If in fact this is a video of MH17, I find it strange that someone just happened to have a camera pointed in the sky at the time of the strike.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>I went on Spring Break in Egypt while in college. Hired a local taxi to drive my buddy and I all around. The son of a US diplomat also joined us. I sat in the back seat while he and the driver smoked hash. Then I took an all night train to Luxor and an all night bus back to Cairo. Then a bus to Tel Aviv. Three weeks later the same bus to Tel Aviv was blown up. If I had brains I never would have made the trip. Ignorance is bliss. >>
This guy was luckier!
The video of the intact plane with an engine on fire is most likely Russian propaganda.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I don't recall seeing any smoke trail in the video showing the impact with the ground.
The video of the intact plane with an engine on fire is most likely Russian propaganda. >>
Do the Russkies have photoshop, too?
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't recall seeing any smoke trail in the video showing the impact with the ground.
The video of the intact plane with an engine on fire is most likely Russian propaganda. >>
Do the Russkies have photoshop, too? >>
Kind of crude, but they invented photoshopping to get rid of "enemies of the people" out of photographs of their leaders. So went Bulganin, Kirov, Trotsky
". . . it is very difficult to sort through all the propaganda. Both sides are involved." - MISH
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>Appears the Video of Rebel Buk Launchers Headed Back to Russia is BS
". . . it is very difficult to sort through all the propaganda. Both sides are involved." - MISH >>
That is an example of stuff I see all the time with both western and Russian media. Understanding the languages being spoken, being able to read street signs etc is a definite plus in sifting through competing opinions. Just tonight I was watching BBC report about the bombing of the train station in Donets'k - very familiar site to me having done lots of Donets'k - Kyiv night trains.
Regarding Egypt and Middle East travel, definitely riskier now then before the Arab Spring and Crimea invasion. However, when I visited Israel in 1997, I was amazed how peaceful and pleasant things were (yes there was some fighting in the news). Western media makes a concerted effort to showcase and over-dramatize the attacks. For ratings, of course. And certain news stations such as NPR are heavily slanted against one side or the other (NPR is very pro-Hamas; why, beats the heck outta me). My point is this ... I have friends who live in Israel. Things are definitely not great, but they also are always better then we Americans believe things to be. Egypt is no different.
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<< <i>I don't recall seeing any smoke trail in the video showing the impact with the ground.
The video of the intact plane with an engine on fire is most likely Russian propaganda. >>
Do the Russkies have photoshop, too? >>
da, in old country was called Glavlit.
comrade renski
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<< <i>It's true that Hamas has fired about 1,000 rockets at Israel. But this is not the constant state of things. And it's happened before, sometimes in the news and sometimes not even. My point ... saying these days aren't as good as the good old days ... well not much has changed so if it seems worse then before ... it ain't. >>
Excepting that the European economy is still so brittle that they can not/will not stand up to Putin. US is not far behind.
As I mentioned before, I believe that Merkel has the fortitude to do the right thing. Hope so.