<< <i>Jeff - I don't believe your 97-O will grade.
Scott - Having seen it in hand the pics don't do your 98-S justice. And neat poker analogy.
BryceM - Welcome to the mega thread.
Pics for this AM, haven't posted this for a while (it gets Darrell's attention), PC40:
>>
Wow! Now that is a real beauty. I don't think I have ever seen another XF 1897-O that was nicer. After 15 years obsessively collecting Barber halves, I don't think that I have seen more than a couple in XF anyway, and none were examples that I would have purchased. So yours is the one 97-O in XF that is worthy of a set in the whole world I imagine.
Somebody is hoarding these.
I do know of a bay area collector that probably has a few hundred thousand in barber coinage. Maybe he has a few 97-O halves. I know that he has six XF-AU center mintmark 1897-S quarters, so he might have a lot of key dates tucked away.
Tyler - Thanks for the compliment, and good to see you on the barber mega-thread. Sounds like an amazing hoard. Know any other tidbits besides six CMM 97's qtrs?
Pics for this AM, from Doug's collection, PC53:
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Vern, don't be too concerned for Darrell. He bought Walt's 1897-O a year or so ago. It was a touch nicer than the one you just showed us.
If I had know this date's true scarcity a few years ago, I would never have sold off the ones I had. Some one has been snapping them up in XF ... could be the guy Tyler knows. You just don't see them anymore ... Usually the big bucks force some dates to come out of hiding. ie: the 1904-S in High Grade circ. It seemed as if all the XF & AU's got certified and put on the market. Now, that date has plateau'd ... for what ever reason, selling an AU 58 for more money than a MS 63 just gauls us.
If a choice XF45 - 1897-O sells for the low $3,000's, you'll see more, I guarantee it.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Mike, My 45 cost more than that, and I bought it from a paesan. I'd probably have to get near 5K to consider parting with it, but it will probably be with me for quite a while.
<< <i> Tyler - Thanks for the compliment, and good to see you on the barber mega-thread. Sounds like an amazing hoard. Know any other tidbits besides six CMM 97's qtrs? >>
When I first started collecting, I came across an Ebay seller who was selling a big Barber collection / hoard on behalf of a longtime collector of 40 years on the east coast who was sick and on death's bed. After the first ebay auction, I quickly wrote and started an online friendship. The seller would send me scans before the Ebay auctions and let me choose what I wanted first. It was glorious.
After three or four Ebay auctions, Mike - not Hayes, the collector from the Bay area did the same. Well, the collector passed and the seller just wanted to move the coins. So, the bay area collector bought the whole she-bang. It was well over 100K worth of Barber material. I don't think there were any Micro o's, but there were a couple of mid-grade F-VF 1901-S quarters and just oodles of key dates of all series.
I wish I had kept the scans, but I had been sent a pic of the six XF-AU center mint mark quarters. I wasn't big into the quarters then, and none were holdered....so I passed.
I didn't have a lot of money back then for coins, but I ended up with a about eight key / semi-key date Barber halves.
Tyler
Edited to add for Vern - I bought the 1906 quarter at the Utah coin show in 2012 and the 1897-S quarter in Fine from Rust Coin in Salt Lake at the same time. So, now you have the provenance going back two years!
Mike! Show me a 45 97-O for 3K or so in a PCGS holder that is not a preferred customer grade and I will buy it! Not a 40 though! You dropped the ball on Walt's 45...I paid way more than you were willing to pay along with the fact that I bought the majority of his collection....yeah...I couldda bought a nice new sports car!
Tyler - A couple of F-VF 01-S qtrs and lots of keys. Excellent. Think this Mike from the Bay Area is still acquiring barbers? Also, thanks for the history of the '06 qtr, it looks great in my raw set. Scott still has the 97-S. My other acquisition was the 1858 std half. That was a really nice group of raw coins and all the seated ones have been posted on the seated thread.
Darrell - Preferred customer grade? So a 45 is that much more in demand than a 40?
Pics for this AM, bought raw a few years back, now PC55:
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Verne,In My Opinion dates like the 97-O,04-S the difference between a 40 and a 45 is substantial. 45 is really the grade many consider the best target for a matched circulated set. Several have been built and I know of several who are attempting to complete a 45 set.
Vern, I can't speak for Darrell, but my interpretation was that certain customers can get a marginal coin in a graded holder while we unpreferreds would get a body bag, and the difference between a truly nice XF and a "preferred customer" XF is quite a bit of money. Even if that's not what he was trying to say, that would make sense to me.
Yes I know all about the deal you and Mr. Kennedy made to acquire his remaining set of Halves. You and I discussed it a few times and I understand that you paid thru the nose for those coins.
My offer for that 97-O in 45, at the time, was $2000. You mentioned you paid considerably more for it, although you never said how much. I did not "drop the ball" on that one. I made an offer, he never counter offered. All he said was he'd think about it and get back to me, which he never did. He contacted you instead and squeezed you. The reason, as I see it now, was because you must have offered lower than he wanted initially, and he used me as a scape-goat to show you that there were legitimate offers at $2000. You bought "a sports car" worth of Barber Halves, that is for sure. He obviously wanted to please you by giving you that coin "at a price".
All this time later, I am still searching ( as are others ) for an XF/AU 1897-O. The $3000 guess was just that, what I feel the coin is worth in today's market. I could be all wet, I do not know, as I have yet to see another 97-O in 45 sell in quite some time. Your not divulging what you paid for Walt's only places a shadow on what the coin is worth... It's your business to tell or not to, I can't fault you one iota if you do or don't tell.
I am just a collector, I don't eat, drink and breathe Barber Halves. I have one halfway decent of XF or so (+/-) Halves. I don't have grading sets of VF 30,35, XF 40, 45, AU 53-55, AU 58.... A Barber Collectors' Dream !! If anyone knows where there are other 45's, it's got to be you, or you have a handle where they might be lurking. So, if there was another 97-O in XF 45 - ( I am at a loss about "a preferred customer grade" ... Really don't get that... Call me dense, I guess ) ... the previous 97-O recently imaged above if what I would call an XF 45. What would a coin such as that run "retail" ... ???? .... I guess I am all wet with my $3000 guess. Yeah... I know.... the sky's the limit.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Interesting read for someone just getting into the Barber Halves, looking to build XF-40-XF45 set, looks like that will take forever. New to the message board also, but I do recognize a few of the usernames, luckily I still have a ton of commons to purchase so it won't be too hard for now.
<< <i>Interesting read for someone just getting into the Barber Halves, looking to build XF-40-XF45 set, looks like that will take forever. New to the message board also, but I do recognize a few of the usernames, luckily I still have a ton of commons to purchase so it won't be too hard for now.
Nice Pic Vern, sure do have some beauties. >>
Don't worry, Dave, there are more out there waiting to be found. Even the hoarders don't have them all.
Mike, There was no coin by coin negotiating per say. I purchased the 97-O in a large group so hammering out an exact price as to what Walt figured it at would not be possible. I know I was comfortable with a price in excess of $2000 and that is all that matters to me and the deal worked for me. I'm sure Walt wishes he had them back as the prices have surely gone up. As Justin says another will turn up, probably when you least expect it. I know there are several coins I want for my set and am pretty much resolved that someone will have to die before I get a chance to buy them.
Again, I just can't see where I dropped the ball, as you said. I was pleased that you picked up the lion's share of his Half Dollar collection. There was nothing I could have done to secure that 97-O; he wanted to consummate the deal and in one fell swoop, sell off the bulk of his collection.
If I had offered him an amount double trends, such as $3,000 to $3,500. he still would have done the deal with you ,because of the remainder of the set lay in the balance. He would have squeezed you harder. The man is a natural born salesman. I am as well, just in different fields.
It's easier selling to one individual, rather than a dozen. I would rather have one large sale rather than a dozen smaller ones.
On a lighter note, one of the YN's ( Valente151) who took my Barber course with Glenn, stopped by for a visit this week. He had never seen my non Barber material. He was surprised at his discoveries ... The seated MS and PR's are a small group, but superb. He also collects Barber V Nickels, and decided to image my collection for me. I didn't have any PlazTex or what ever it is to polish slabs. But most were in decent enough shape. Some, not so much. Michael edited them and will burn them onto a CD. Once I receive it, I'll post the images - daily - just to stretch out all the work he did. A few weeks ago, I had an opportunity to sell off my better duplicates and now, I wish I hadn't. Oh well.
Getting a large consignment of new Quarters and a small portion of my Halves together to send to CAC before they shut down next week. It seems as if I had a fairly large credit to use up. Results when I get them. Some of the Quarters won't pass, but I have sent all of them in for CAC approval, and regardless of what I think of them, I feel they are worth a shot of getting "beaned". ( My opinions of this service are not shared by the majority of my fellow BCCS members ). I hand selected a dozen or so Halves that have great eye appeal, wonderful toning and luster. So, it'll be most interesting to see how the Halves fare as opposed to the Quarters.
Have a great day, and Happy Hunting.
PS: a warm welcome to Dave Noble.
Pps: Glad to see you posting again, Tyler.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
<< <i>Tyler - A couple of F-VF 01-S qtrs and lots of keys. Excellent. Think this Mike from the Bay Area is still acquiring barbers? Also, thanks for the history of the '06 qtr, it looks great in my raw set. Scott still has the 97-S. My other acquisition was the 1858 std half. That was a really nice group of raw coins and all the seated ones have been posted on the seated thread. >>
I don't think so, at least not through Ebay. There were two spells (back when most Ebay auctions were true auctions) when Mike would buy everything on Ebay for about six months then go quiet. I have really wanted to contact him again and see how he is doing.
I saw the seated postings. After Barbers I lean towards Seated coins, in the past, not enough to really collect them, but Seated coins are really starting to interest me now. I foolishly sold a super nice 1851 in PCGS VF20 with that perfect original darker tone that I had just acquired at Heritage.
Oh Well,
Tyler
Thanks Mike, it is good to read your posts as well. I would post more, but all I have is that confounded Dropbox thing-a-ma-jig and I can't post pics like I could in the past.
Hope you guys are right, I searched long and hard at the Central States show and only found 1 nice XF, but I guess the fact that I am a little new at this limits my knowledge of where to look and who to look for. At the show last week in St. Louis I went back and forth between two table trying to decide which of the only two XF's I could find might be one for my collection, then I was told by one of the dealers that almost all of the good Barber stuff was bought that morning by one person at the dealer only portion of the first day.
Luckily after not being able to decide between 2 coins I wasn't sure of, I walked past Teapartys table and they were putting out hands full of PCGS xf and AU's. One that I liked was the one I asked about in an earlier thread with the felt inside the holder. It was AU50, but I just couldn't get past the felt problem, did immediately see the XF45 I posted and had to have it, so all worked out well.
Vern, I will be in Chicago Friday morning and Saturday for the show, can't make the meeting Wednesday but sure hope you can introduce me to some of the BCCS members at the table. Will you be there Friday?
Any one else from this message board planning on the ANA show Friday?
Dave, After rushing through a quarter collection from about 2007-2010, I decided to start doing the half dollar set. I probably replaced between 1/2 and 2/3 of my quarters already. My goal with the halves was to take my time and find PQ coins and not regret any purchases later. I'm 4 years into it now, I have about 50 dates, and I'll probably take another 4 years to finish the set. There is only one coin in the set that I feel like I want to replace and I overpaid for.
Take your time and best of luck! Finding nothing at a show is better than buying a bad coin to fill a hole. I've taken those opportunities to expand my coin horizons.
paesan, thanks for the advice. It seems the XF are a little harder to find than I thought, either real high grade or vg-vf. I am also working on a raw vf set but I don't trust myself enough yet with silver coins. I've been collecting Flying Eagles and Indian head cent varieties for the past 12 years or so, do pretty well with them. My goal is to try and find one coin at each show, and like I said earlier I have a ton of commons to go so that shouldn't be too hard for a while.
My luck with submissions has been horrible , last time I sent coins in for grading was years ago when I was doing a Franklin FBL set. Bought all the coins all ready graded, sent two in that I cut out of mint sets, one came back AU, the other (CEANED), never submitted a coin since.
This is just my opinion on the problem of finding XF Barbers based on talking with some dealers - they believe that the market is split between those chasing Registry sets and those going after low grade sets. My guess is that they do not think there is much of a market for XF coins. This problem abounds with Walkers - the people with money want AU/MS coins and the unwashed masses look at VF or lower coins because the XFs are too much money in the earlier dates and in my opinion Walkers really do not look good until they are at least in AU grade so why buy an XF when the VF look similar. My guess is that if dealers knew there was (if there is) a stronger market for XF Barbers they would pursue them.
Needless to say, I could be wrong but when I started collecting Barbers I told a dealer exactly what grades I wanted and he went out of his way to try to find them. It took me only 23 months to finish the quarters in AU with a few XFs. I know some of it is luck but I've had similar results with the dimes (19 months) and the halves - longer but mostly because I couldn't find an 1896-O at the grade and price I wanted to pay.
My only point is that maybe if enough people asked their dealers to find XF material - they would be more active in finding them because they have a market.
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
Interesting. I've never been insulted for being a VF collector until now. I've always known people have felt this way, but it still stings to hear it. Funny thing is I'll keep on collecting them. And Fine coins too if I like them.
Some of the most attractive Barbers I've seen were VF coins, I chose to do the raw set in that grade mainly because I felt the availability would be greater and I do trust my eye a little better when it comes to grading them. If I'm wrong on an XF or AU coin I'm out a whole lot more than if it was a VG/VF mistake, and to be truthful I have a better feeling of accomplishment with the raw VF set.
I guess" buying opinions is correct", but with the VF raws it's my own opinion that I'm trusting, real nice and fulfilling just to sit around and look at them. I'll work on the Slab XF coins, but that will be a slow and drawn out process, the VF's will provide the most fun and excitement in the long run. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy collecting both slab XF and VG/VF raw, I just feel I can compete better both financially and ability wise with the lower grade raw coins.
<< <i>Interesting. I've never been insulted for being a VF collector until now. I've always known people have felt this way, but it still stings to hear it. Funny thing is I'll keep on collecting them. And Fine coins too if I like them. >>
VF coins are the best. Especially choice VF. You are getting an almost XF at lower prices. I don't know who degraded the VF collector, but who cares? Most collectors don't like Barbers, so the more that don't like Barbers, or Barbers in VF grades, the better IMO.
Justin - I won't speak for Mowgli, but I don't think it was meant that way ..
But I do disagree with the point made by Mowgli
I think it is more economics within the series meaning it was cost-prohibitive until very recently to slab the vast majority of Barbers that weren't AU+ (unless it was a key or high level semi-key) ..and even then, lower graded coins were submitted for authenticating rather than grading per se .. Almost any collector knows an AG/G when they see one and do you really need a TPG to tell you if it is G4 or G6?
IMO if you buy coins, you can find them much easier at most any grade level you want .. If you are doing a registry or only want PCGS graded coins, well , that is what is restricting the availability. Until 5 years ago, they just weren't sent in .. And even now that the trend and economics have changed recently, you are still eliminating more than 50% of all possibilities because they aren't slabbed, or more specifically, PCGS graded
My opinion and observation only .. I have said it before, , I buy coins I like - slabs are truly secondary .. Only important if/when time comes to sell
Paeasan - I don't collect at all grade levels but your point is well taken .. All the AG/G/VG Barber/Wash/Merc/Roos/Morgans/Peace/Walkers etc. when I buy junk silver collections are quickly cherried for DDO Washington's or other varieties and then either go straight to the silver vault or are eventually sold back
Edit: I also agree with Dave, Justin, Tyler that some of the most attractive coins are graded 30-35 (or ungraded in are in that same range) .. I have had several killer choice VF Barbers (and any other series for that matter) .. There is something about that level of wear, when the coin remains mostly natural silver/dirty graphite grey with dirty surfaces and hints of luster that get the pheromones hopping
2nd edit - For Paesan - This post is only 25,597 words shy of the allotted quota
<< <i>This is just my opinion on the problem of finding XF Barbers based on talking with some dealers - they believe that the market is split between those chasing Registry sets and those going after low grade sets. My guess is that they do not think there is much of a market for XF coins. This problem abounds with Walkers - the people with money want AU/MS coins and the unwashed masses look at VF or lower coins because the XFs are too much money in the earlier dates and in my opinion Walkers really do not look good until they are at least in AU grade so why buy an XF when the VF look similar. My guess is that if dealers knew there was (if there is) a stronger market for XF Barbers they would pursue them.
Needless to say, I could be wrong but when I started collecting Barbers I told a dealer exactly what grades I wanted and he went out of his way to try to find them. It took me only 23 months to finish the quarters in AU with a few XFs. I know some of it is luck but I've had similar results with the dimes (19 months) and the halves - longer but mostly because I couldn't find an 1896-O at the grade and price I wanted to pay.
My only point is that maybe if enough people asked their dealers to find XF material - they would be more active in finding them because they have a market. >>
Well I think I can blast your theory out of the water! If I need a coin for 1 of the sets I am working on I am all but the higher buyer. I have completed my goal up to VF-35...a set in every grade from 12-45. I still haven't been able to finish the 40 or 45 sets. The competition is out there. I have passed on 2 examples of the same date because I just wouldn't land on the moon!
<< <i>Justin - I won't speak for Mowgli, but I don't think it was meant that way ..
But I do disagree with the point made by Mowgli
I think it is more economics within the series meaning it was cost-prohibitive until very recently to slab the vast majority of Barbers that weren't AU+ (unless it was a key or high level semi-key) ..and even then, lower graded coins were submitted for authenticating rather than grading per se .. Almost any collector knows an AG/G when they see one and do you really need a TPG to tell you if it is G4 or G6?
IMO if you buy coins, you can find them much easier at most any grade level you want .. If you are doing a registry or only want PCGS graded coins, well , that is what is restricting the availability. Until 5 years ago, they just weren't sent in .. And even now that the trend and economics have changed recently, you are still eliminating more than 50% of all possibilities because they aren't slabbed, or more specifically, PCGS graded
My opinion and observation only .. I have said it before, , I buy coins I like - slabs are truly secondary .. Only important if/when time comes to sell
Paeasan - I don't collect at all grade levels but your point is well taken .. All the AG/G/VG Barber/Wash/Merc/Roos/Morgans/Peace/Walkers etc. when I buy junk silver collections are quickly cherried for DDO Washington's or other varieties and then either go straight to the silver vault or are eventually sold back
Edit: I also agree with Dave, Justin, Tyler that some of the most attractive coins are graded 30-35 (or ungraded in are in that same range) .. I have had several killer choice VF Barbers (and any other series for that matter) .. There is something about that level of wear, when the coin remains mostly natural silver/dirty graphite grey with dirty surfaces and hints of luster that get the pheromones hopping
2nd edit - For Paesan - This post is only 25,597 words shy of the allotted quota >>
Scott....without editing out all that doesn't apply to my response(gotta hit the hay) The available graded coins in F and better are drying up quickly! I rarely am able to buy a coin on ebay these days and really not a lot of new stuff showing up!
<< <i> I editing out all that doesn't apply to my response(gotta hit the hay) The available graded coins in F and better are drying up quickly! I rarely am able to buy a coin on ebay these days and really not a lot of new stuff showing up! >>
I have a bunch of Barber Halves for sale on eBay..... some of them new!
I wasn't intentionally insulting anyone for collecting VF Barbers. It was supposed to be a tongue in cheek relative to the people who collect at the higher levels. All of us live on a budget and we all have a preference for the grade of the coins we want to collect - sometimes they line up and sometimes they do not. VF Barbers are nice and as was mentioned are close to XFs in look but a lot cheaper - which does not contradict my point about what some Barber dealers perceive is the market for these coins.
As for SAM's remarks about availability of slabs with lower graded coins - I continue to live in a world where I believe anyone who collects circulated coins in the G-XF range doesn't need a slab unless there is a large discrepancy in prices for incremental increases in grade - the Registry sets notwithstanding.
I'm sorry that my "unwashed masses" comment took away from the point of my post. It was not an attack on VF coins but rather a proposed explanation for why XFs are so hard to find - some dealer think that people either want higher graded coins or lower graded coins.
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
<< <i> I editing out all that doesn't apply to my response(gotta hit the hay) The available graded coins in F and better are drying up quickly! I rarely am able to buy a coin on ebay these days and really not a lot of new stuff showing up! >>
I have a bunch of Barber Halves for sale on eBay..... some of them new! >>
Yeah, I don't understand this post. Nothing in F or better? Come on dude. Either raise your price maximum in the search parameters, or shop somewhere else besides eBay. Try Heritage. Guarantee you'll find at least one in F or better.
Call me one of the unwashed, but that is a great 93-S.
That expression (reused above) is older than dirt (pun intended). I know it was not meant in any ill way. Just an expression ... a better term would have just been to delete the word "unwashed" as mentioned, it leaves a negative connotation.
If I had the time, opportunity and finances, I would have have done exactly what Darrell is accomplishing, a complete grading set in VF to AU. Years ago, I mentioned ( I must have plagiarized someone smarter than I ) ..." I never met a Barber I didn't like..."
As long as the rims are strong on both sides and some of Liberty is showing, and the reverse has E.P.U. showing, then what's not to love.
My first set of Halves back in the mid 1960's was a VG 10 set. I had more fun putting that raw set together than I think I ever had on any other set. Regardless of finances. I had a friend who was my mentor ( he is in the coin retail business today ) and he and I would scour all of Ohio going to coin shops ... and occasionally to some shows on weekends. ( How we maintained over a 3.0 GPA is amazing ).
Tastes mature, finances increase over time and the love you have for your first set of Barber Halves never diminishes. Many move on to other series ( I certainly did ) but sooner or later, you find yourself back looking at that 1913 Half and studying the Reverse, muttering...is that an impression of a removed mint mark ?
As David Hall keeps saying.... " Have fun with your coins ! "
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Nice coin stman - I saw that coin on CRO website when the early bird came out .. I knew it wouldn't last long .. priced decently too .. Great acquisition
That is the type of coin that separates those who think they want original vs. those who really do want original
<< <i>Hey I'm in with this nasty thing....................
>>
I know you said that tongue in cheek, but it's worth noting what a special '93-S that is. Very tough indeed -- great coin. Not surprising it came from the early bird CRO message -- one day I'll subscribe to it, when I have spare money to spend on such things... right now it would be too painful!
Edit also to say, that on Tom Bush's site, he speaks of the particular toughness, of nice '93-S halves.
Mike - You're dry humor has me cracking up lately ..
Edit: Hey Jim - how have you been? You must be looking at craigslist again Just because I drive to rest areas 100 miles south of me in Connecticut, doesn't mean I'll go anywhere
Comments
Scott - Having seen it in hand the pics don't do your 98-S justice. And neat poker analogy.
BryceM - Welcome to the mega thread.
Pics for this AM, haven't posted this for a while (it gets Darrell's attention), PC40:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Are you giving away that '97 O 50C in honor of your 909th Post?
Thanks to sage advice I'm not going to bother trying to grade the '97 O I posted- back it goes.
<< <i>A few friends have mentioned that my 10,000th post give away is coming up soon.
They are expecting the Moon. >>
I don't think we are expecting the moon, but a nice 95-O Die Cap dime would satisfy.
See what I mean ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>Jeff - I don't believe your 97-O will grade.
Scott - Having seen it in hand the pics don't do your 98-S justice. And neat poker analogy.
BryceM - Welcome to the mega thread.
Pics for this AM, haven't posted this for a while (it gets Darrell's attention), PC40:
Wow! Now that is a real beauty. I don't think I have ever seen another XF 1897-O that was nicer. After 15 years obsessively collecting Barber halves, I don't think that I have seen more than a couple in XF anyway, and none were examples that I would have purchased. So yours is the one 97-O in XF that is worthy of a set in the whole world I imagine.
Somebody is hoarding these.
I do know of a bay area collector that probably has a few hundred thousand in barber coinage. Maybe he has a few 97-O halves. I know that he has six XF-AU center mintmark 1897-S quarters, so he might have a lot of key dates tucked away.
TYler
Mike - 10,000 is quite an accomplishment.
Tyler - Thanks for the compliment, and good to see you on the barber mega-thread.
Sounds like an amazing hoard. Know any other tidbits besides six CMM 97's qtrs?
Pics for this AM, from Doug's collection, PC53:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Vern, don't be too concerned for Darrell. He bought Walt's 1897-O a year or so ago.
It was a touch nicer than the one you just showed us.
If I had know this date's true scarcity a few years ago, I would never have sold
off the ones I had. Some one has been snapping them up in XF ... could be the
guy Tyler knows. You just don't see them anymore ... Usually the big bucks force
some dates to come out of hiding. ie: the 1904-S in High Grade circ. It seemed as
if all the XF & AU's got certified and put on the market. Now, that date has plateau'd
... for what ever reason, selling an AU 58 for more money than a MS 63 just gauls us.
If a choice XF45 - 1897-O sells for the low $3,000's, you'll see more, I guarantee it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Paesan
<< <i>
Tyler - Thanks for the compliment, and good to see you on the barber mega-thread.
Sounds like an amazing hoard. Know any other tidbits besides six CMM 97's qtrs?
>>
When I first started collecting, I came across an Ebay seller who was selling a big Barber collection / hoard on behalf of a longtime collector of 40 years on the east coast who was sick and on death's bed. After the first ebay auction, I quickly wrote and started an online friendship. The seller would send me scans before the Ebay auctions and let me choose what I wanted first. It was glorious.
After three or four Ebay auctions, Mike - not Hayes, the collector from the Bay area did the same. Well, the collector passed and the seller just wanted to move the coins. So, the bay area collector bought the whole she-bang. It was well over 100K worth of Barber material. I don't think there were any Micro o's, but there were a couple of mid-grade F-VF 1901-S quarters and just oodles of key dates of all series.
I wish I had kept the scans, but I had been sent a pic of the six XF-AU center mint mark quarters. I wasn't big into the quarters then, and none were holdered....so I passed.
I didn't have a lot of money back then for coins, but I ended up with a about eight key / semi-key date Barber halves.
Tyler
Edited to add for Vern - I bought the 1906 quarter at the Utah coin show in 2012 and the 1897-S quarter in Fine from Rust Coin in Salt Lake at the same time. So, now you have the provenance going back two years!
Paesan
Agree with your take.
Paesan
Also, thanks for the history of the '06 qtr, it looks great in my raw set. Scott still has the 97-S. My other acquisition was the 1858 std half. That was a really nice group of raw coins and all the seated ones have been posted on the seated thread.
Darrell - Preferred customer grade? So a 45 is that much more in demand than a 40?
Pics for this AM, bought raw a few years back, now PC55:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Pasean
Paesan
Darrell,
Yes I know all about the deal you and Mr. Kennedy made to acquire his
remaining set of Halves. You and I discussed it a few times and I understand
that you paid thru the nose for those coins.
My offer for that 97-O in 45, at the time, was $2000. You mentioned you paid
considerably more for it, although you never said how much. I did not "drop the
ball" on that one. I made an offer, he never counter offered. All he said was he'd
think about it and get back to me, which he never did. He contacted you instead
and squeezed you. The reason, as I see it now, was because you must have offered
lower than he wanted initially, and he used me as a scape-goat to show you that
there were legitimate offers at $2000. You bought "a sports car" worth of Barber
Halves, that is for sure. He obviously wanted to please you by giving you that coin
"at a price".
All this time later, I am still searching ( as are others ) for an XF/AU 1897-O.
The $3000 guess was just that, what I feel the coin is worth in today's market.
I could be all wet, I do not know, as I have yet to see another 97-O in 45 sell
in quite some time. Your not divulging what you paid for Walt's only places a
shadow on what the coin is worth... It's your business to tell or not to, I can't
fault you one iota if you do or don't tell.
I am just a collector, I don't eat, drink and breathe Barber Halves. I have one
halfway decent of XF or so (+/-) Halves. I don't have grading sets of VF 30,35,
XF 40, 45, AU 53-55, AU 58.... A Barber Collectors' Dream !! If anyone knows
where there are other 45's, it's got to be you, or you have a handle where they
might be lurking. So, if there was another 97-O in XF 45 - ( I am at a loss about
"a preferred customer grade" ... Really don't get that... Call me dense, I guess )
... the previous 97-O recently imaged above if what I would call an XF 45. What
would a coin such as that run "retail" ... ???? .... I guess I am all wet with my $3000
guess. Yeah... I know.... the sky's the limit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Nice Pic Vern, sure do have some beauties.
NOBLE REGISTRY
<< <i>Interesting read for someone just getting into the Barber Halves, looking to build XF-40-XF45 set, looks like that will take forever. New to the message board also, but I do recognize a few of the usernames, luckily I still have a ton of commons to purchase so it won't be too hard for now.
Nice Pic Vern, sure do have some beauties. >>
Don't worry, Dave, there are more out there waiting to be found. Even the hoarders don't have them all.
There was no coin by coin negotiating per say. I purchased the 97-O in a large group so hammering out an exact price as to what Walt figured it at would not be possible. I know I was comfortable with a price in excess of $2000 and that is all that matters to me and the deal worked for me. I'm sure Walt wishes he had them back as the prices have surely gone up. As Justin says another will turn up, probably when you least expect it. I know there are several coins I want for my set and am pretty much resolved that someone will have to die before I get a chance to buy them.
Again, I just can't see where I dropped the ball, as you said.
I was pleased that you picked up the lion's share of his Half
Dollar collection. There was nothing I could have done to secure
that 97-O; he wanted to consummate the deal and in one fell
swoop, sell off the bulk of his collection.
If I had offered him an amount double trends, such as $3,000 to $3,500.
he still would have done the deal with you ,because of the remainder of
the set lay in the balance. He would have squeezed you harder. The man
is a natural born salesman. I am as well, just in different fields.
It's easier selling to one individual, rather than a dozen.
I would rather have one large sale rather than a dozen smaller ones.
On a lighter note, one of the YN's ( Valente151) who took my Barber course with Glenn,
stopped by for a visit this week. He had never seen my non Barber material.
He was surprised at his discoveries ... The seated MS and PR's are a small
group, but superb. He also collects Barber V Nickels, and decided to image
my collection for me. I didn't have any PlazTex or what ever it is to polish slabs.
But most were in decent enough shape. Some, not so much. Michael edited them
and will burn them onto a CD. Once I receive it, I'll post the images - daily - just
to stretch out all the work he did. A few weeks ago, I had an opportunity to sell
off my better duplicates and now, I wish I hadn't. Oh well.
Getting a large consignment of new Quarters and a small portion of my Halves together
to send to CAC before they shut down next week. It seems as if I had a fairly large credit
to use up. Results when I get them. Some of the Quarters won't pass, but I have sent all
of them in for CAC approval, and regardless of what I think of them, I feel they are worth
a shot of getting "beaned". ( My opinions of this service are not shared by the majority of
my fellow BCCS members ). I hand selected a dozen or so Halves that have great eye
appeal, wonderful toning and luster. So, it'll be most interesting to see how the Halves fare
as opposed to the Quarters.
Have a great day, and Happy Hunting.
PS: a warm welcome to Dave Noble.
Pps: Glad to see you posting again, Tyler.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>Tyler - A couple of F-VF 01-S qtrs and lots of keys. Excellent. Think this Mike from the Bay Area is still acquiring barbers?
Also, thanks for the history of the '06 qtr, it looks great in my raw set. Scott still has the 97-S. My other acquisition was the 1858 std half. That was a really nice group of raw coins and all the seated ones have been posted on the seated thread.
>>
I don't think so, at least not through Ebay. There were two spells (back when most Ebay auctions were true auctions) when Mike would buy everything on Ebay for about six months then go quiet. I have really wanted to contact him again and see how he is doing.
I saw the seated postings. After Barbers I lean towards Seated coins, in the past, not enough to really collect them, but Seated coins are really starting to interest me now. I foolishly sold a super nice 1851 in PCGS VF20 with that perfect original darker tone that I had just acquired at Heritage.
Oh Well,
Tyler
Thanks Mike, it is good to read your posts as well. I would post more, but all I have is that confounded Dropbox thing-a-ma-jig and I can't post pics like I could in the past.
Dave - Thanks. And you'll find plenty of barber halves to acquire.
Mike - Look forward to seeing pics of your V Nickels.
Tyler - Think this bay area Mike ever sells anything?
Pics for this PM, one of Paesan's Stash that I don't believe I've posted, PC50:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Luckily after not being able to decide between 2 coins I wasn't sure of, I walked past Teapartys table and they were putting out hands full of PCGS xf and AU's. One that I liked was the one I asked about in an earlier thread with the felt inside the holder. It was AU50, but I just couldn't get past the felt problem, did immediately see the XF45 I posted and had to have it, so all worked out well.
Vern, I will be in Chicago Friday morning and Saturday for the show, can't make the meeting Wednesday but sure hope you can introduce me to some of the BCCS members at the table. Will you be there Friday?
Any one else from this message board planning on the ANA show Friday?
NOBLE REGISTRY
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Take your time and best of luck! Finding nothing at a show is better than buying a bad coin to fill a hole. I've taken those opportunities to expand my coin horizons.
Paesan
My luck with submissions has been horrible , last time I sent coins in for grading was years ago when I was doing a Franklin FBL set. Bought all the coins all ready graded, sent two in that I cut out of mint sets, one came back AU, the other (CEANED), never submitted a coin since.
Vern, see you in Chicago.
NOBLE REGISTRY
Paesan
<< <i>Scott, Great post. What happened to the other 26,496 words? :-) >>
I am a multilingual man:
For example, I am fluent in Shorthand and Longwind
I am laying 4:1 odds TDN gets the 4000th post .. Action opens at 4:00pm EST . I take PayPal
Needless to say, I could be wrong but when I started collecting Barbers I told a dealer exactly what grades I wanted and he went out of his way to try to find them. It took me only 23 months to finish the quarters in AU with a few XFs. I know some of it is luck but I've had similar results with the dimes (19 months) and the halves - longer but mostly because I couldn't find an 1896-O at the grade and price I wanted to pay.
My only point is that maybe if enough people asked their dealers to find XF material - they would be more active in finding them because they have a market.
Paesan
I guess" buying opinions is correct", but with the VF raws it's my own opinion that I'm trusting, real nice and fulfilling just to sit around and look at them. I'll work on the Slab XF coins, but that will be a slow and drawn out process, the VF's will provide the most fun and excitement in the long run. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy collecting both slab XF and VG/VF raw, I just feel I can compete better both financially and ability wise with the lower grade raw coins.
NOBLE REGISTRY
<< <i>Interesting. I've never been insulted for being a VF collector until now. I've always known people have felt this way, but it still stings to hear it. Funny thing is I'll keep on collecting them. And Fine coins too if I like them. >>
VF coins are the best. Especially choice VF. You are getting an almost XF at lower prices. I don't know who degraded the VF collector, but who cares? Most collectors don't like Barbers, so the more that don't like Barbers, or Barbers in VF grades, the better IMO.
Tyler
But I do disagree with the point made by Mowgli
I think it is more economics within the series meaning it was cost-prohibitive until very recently to slab the vast majority of Barbers that weren't AU+ (unless it was a key or high level semi-key) ..and even then, lower graded coins were submitted for authenticating rather than grading per se .. Almost any collector knows an AG/G when they see one and do you really need a TPG to tell you if it is G4 or G6?
IMO if you buy coins, you can find them much easier at most any grade level you want .. If you are doing a registry or only want PCGS graded coins, well , that is what is restricting the availability. Until 5 years ago, they just weren't sent in .. And even now that the trend and economics have changed recently, you are still eliminating more than 50% of all possibilities because they aren't slabbed, or more specifically, PCGS graded
My opinion and observation only .. I have said it before, , I buy coins I like - slabs are truly secondary .. Only important if/when time comes to sell
Paeasan - I don't collect at all grade levels but your point is well taken .. All the AG/G/VG Barber/Wash/Merc/Roos/Morgans/Peace/Walkers etc. when I buy junk silver collections are quickly cherried for DDO Washington's or other varieties and then either go straight to the silver vault or are eventually sold back
Edit: I also agree with Dave, Justin, Tyler that some of the most attractive coins are graded 30-35 (or ungraded in are in that same range) .. I have had several killer choice VF Barbers (and any other series for that matter) .. There is something about that level of wear, when the coin remains mostly natural silver/dirty graphite grey with dirty surfaces and hints of luster that get the pheromones hopping
2nd edit - For Paesan - This post is only 25,597 words shy of the allotted quota
<< <i>This is just my opinion on the problem of finding XF Barbers based on talking with some dealers - they believe that the market is split between those chasing Registry sets and those going after low grade sets. My guess is that they do not think there is much of a market for XF coins. This problem abounds with Walkers - the people with money want AU/MS coins and the unwashed masses look at VF or lower coins because the XFs are too much money in the earlier dates and in my opinion Walkers really do not look good until they are at least in AU grade so why buy an XF when the VF look similar. My guess is that if dealers knew there was (if there is) a stronger market for XF Barbers they would pursue them.
Needless to say, I could be wrong but when I started collecting Barbers I told a dealer exactly what grades I wanted and he went out of his way to try to find them. It took me only 23 months to finish the quarters in AU with a few XFs. I know some of it is luck but I've had similar results with the dimes (19 months) and the halves - longer but mostly because I couldn't find an 1896-O at the grade and price I wanted to pay.
My only point is that maybe if enough people asked their dealers to find XF material - they would be more active in finding them because they have a market. >>
Well I think I can blast your theory out of the water!
<< <i>Justin - I won't speak for Mowgli, but I don't think it was meant that way ..
But I do disagree with the point made by Mowgli
I think it is more economics within the series meaning it was cost-prohibitive until very recently to slab the vast majority of Barbers that weren't AU+ (unless it was a key or high level semi-key) ..and even then, lower graded coins were submitted for authenticating rather than grading per se .. Almost any collector knows an AG/G when they see one and do you really need a TPG to tell you if it is G4 or G6?
IMO if you buy coins, you can find them much easier at most any grade level you want .. If you are doing a registry or only want PCGS graded coins, well , that is what is restricting the availability. Until 5 years ago, they just weren't sent in .. And even now that the trend and economics have changed recently, you are still eliminating more than 50% of all possibilities because they aren't slabbed, or more specifically, PCGS graded
My opinion and observation only .. I have said it before, , I buy coins I like - slabs are truly secondary .. Only important if/when time comes to sell
Paeasan - I don't collect at all grade levels but your point is well taken .. All the AG/G/VG Barber/Wash/Merc/Roos/Morgans/Peace/Walkers etc. when I buy junk silver collections are quickly cherried for DDO Washington's or other varieties and then either go straight to the silver vault or are eventually sold back
Edit: I also agree with Dave, Justin, Tyler that some of the most attractive coins are graded 30-35 (or ungraded in are in that same range) .. I have had several killer choice VF Barbers (and any other series for that matter) .. There is something about that level of wear, when the coin remains mostly natural silver/dirty graphite grey with dirty surfaces and hints of luster that get the pheromones hopping
2nd edit - For Paesan - This post is only 25,597 words shy of the allotted quota >>
Scott....without editing out all that doesn't apply to my response(gotta hit the hay) The available graded coins in F and better are drying up quickly! I rarely am able to buy a coin on ebay these days and really not a lot of new stuff showing up!
<< <i> I editing out all that doesn't apply to my response(gotta hit the hay) The available graded coins in F and better are drying up quickly! I rarely am able to buy a coin on ebay these days and really not a lot of new stuff showing up! >>
I have a bunch of Barber Halves for sale on eBay..... some of them new!
As for SAM's remarks about availability of slabs with lower graded coins - I continue to live in a world where I believe anyone who collects circulated coins in the G-XF range doesn't need a slab unless there is a large discrepancy in prices for incremental increases in grade - the Registry sets notwithstanding.
I'm sorry that my "unwashed masses" comment took away from the point of my post. It was not an attack on VF coins but rather a proposed explanation for why XFs are so hard to find - some dealer think that people either want higher graded coins or lower graded coins.
<< <i>
<< <i> I editing out all that doesn't apply to my response(gotta hit the hay) The available graded coins in F and better are drying up quickly! I rarely am able to buy a coin on ebay these days and really not a lot of new stuff showing up! >>
I have a bunch of Barber Halves for sale on eBay..... some of them new! >>
Yeah, I don't understand this post. Nothing in F or better? Come on dude. Either raise your price maximum in the search parameters, or shop somewhere else besides eBay. Try Heritage. Guarantee you'll find at least one in F or better.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
Call me one of the unwashed, but that is a great 93-S.
That expression (reused above) is older than dirt (pun intended).
I know it was not meant in any ill way. Just an expression ... a better
term would have just been to delete the word "unwashed" as mentioned,
it leaves a negative connotation.
If I had the time, opportunity and finances, I would have have done
exactly what Darrell is accomplishing, a complete grading set in VF to AU.
Years ago, I mentioned ( I must have plagiarized someone smarter than I )
..." I never met a Barber I didn't like..."
As long as the rims are strong on both sides and some of Liberty is showing,
and the reverse has E.P.U. showing, then what's not to love.
My first set of Halves back in the mid 1960's was a VG 10 set. I had more fun
putting that raw set together than I think I ever had on any other set. Regardless
of finances. I had a friend who was my mentor ( he is in the coin retail business today )
and he and I would scour all of Ohio going to coin shops ... and occasionally to some
shows on weekends. ( How we maintained over a 3.0 GPA is amazing ).
Tastes mature, finances increase over time and the love you have for your first set
of Barber Halves never diminishes. Many move on to other series ( I certainly did )
but sooner or later, you find yourself back looking at that 1913 Half and studying the
Reverse, muttering...is that an impression of a removed mint mark ?
As David Hall keeps saying.... " Have fun with your coins ! "
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
That is the type of coin that separates those who think they want original vs. those who really do want original
<< <i>tough to find nice barbers in the northeast when Scott is willing to drive all over the get them.... >>
That'll happen when you own a Livery Company....
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>Hey I'm in with this nasty thing....................
I know you said that tongue in cheek, but it's worth noting what a special '93-S that is. Very tough indeed -- great coin. Not surprising it came from the early bird CRO message -- one day I'll subscribe to it, when I have spare money to spend on such things... right now it would be too painful!
Edit also to say, that on Tom Bush's site, he speaks of the particular toughness, of nice '93-S halves.
Edit: Hey Jim - how have you been? You must be looking at craigslist again
Just because I drive to rest areas 100 miles south of me in Connecticut, doesn't mean I'll go anywhere
Take that TDN !