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New Silver Eagle two coin set in the works!

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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mint catalog page

    2012 American Eagle San Francisco Two-Coin Silver Proof Set

    Adobe Acrobat Reader For only four weeks, from June 7, 2012, to July 5, 2012, the United States Mint will be offering a special new set to coin enthusiasts. The 2012 American Eagle San Francisco Two-Coin Silver Proof Set is an exquisite collection that captures the essence and timeless beauty of the American Eagle Silver Coins. This set -- one American Eagle Silver Proof Coin and one American Eagle Silver Reverse Proof Coin minted at the United States Mint at San Francisco -- is a testament to the fine, exacting craftsmanship that has been a United States Mint hallmark since 1792.

    A special feature of this elegant two-coin set is the coin featuring a “reverse proof” finish. Reversing the mirror-like background finish of a traditional proof coin and applying it to the design elements of the coin achieves a magnificent contrast.

    Coin Specifications Coin Specifications
    Specification Name Specification Value 2nd Specification Value
    Quality: Proof Reverse Proof
    Composition: 99.9% silver 99.9% silver
    Edge: Reeded Reeded
    Facility: San Francisco San Francisco
    Mint Mark: S S
    Mintage: To demand To demand



    For investors, please click on the appropriate link for information on United States Mint American Eagle Bullion Coins or to locate a bullion coin dealer near you.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    loose coin problem:

    this years Star Spangled Banner UNCIRCULATED coins had MANY that were out of their capsule

    Interestingly eough, the Proof did not in the many I checked.

    I sent a letter to mint HQ to the QC person who responded to my 25th set issue letter. I mentioned this could be an issue with a lazy employee since one issue had problems (Unc) and the other did not (Proof), and using the same boxes and capsules.



    They may only need to shake up staff in some way. who knows. I didn't ask for a response to this letter to save them time, plus they'd never admit to a staff problem anyway.
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
    The tv coin guys should be loving this set up. That should be good for 50,000 of the sales.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The tv coin guys should be loving this set up. That should be good for 50,000 of the sales. >>




    only available from the mint in a brief one month window!


    Am I hired?
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭
    One per Household=Good. Even better if they cut production of the single ASE Proof Sales to 500K.
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They limited the 1999 Silver Proof Sets initially to 5 sets/HH. Despite the initial excitement, sales slowed way down so they subsequently eliminated the HH limit. By then, they had lost people's limited attention span and the set went on to end with a low mintage. As the series proceeded, it began to dawn on people that the 1999 silver set had the keys in abundance and the set took off for real.

    This one will be fun to watch. It's a double-edged sword for the flippers and it will be very hard to predict in advance. I applaud the Mint on this one. They made the right decision, and it will ultimately help the series.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    paladinpaladin Posts: 898 ✭✭

    From last year's set, 70 graded RP's continue to go for $100-$200 more than comparable S's. Collectors just love that coin. Sales of this set will hit the stratosphere.


    "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."

    ~ Vince Lombardi
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    BigABigA Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭
    Sales will...prices won't
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    RichRRichR Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So...then...basically we're saying that the Mint has spent millions of dollars to upgrade their ordering system (to handle additional surge capacity), just in time to go to a no HH limit, minted to demand policy...thereby making an upgraded ordering system unnecessary. Typical!
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    If the point is to make sets readily available to the collector, why no HH limits. Does the average collector really need to buy more then 1 or 2 sets. If there is a HH at least the mintage is reasonable. No HH sounds like it works right into the hands of the tv shop-at-homes and the slabshops to cater to the label collectors.

    And when can we expect to get these coins if the Mint doesn't know how many to make until a month goes by. Will we be getting these coins in Sept after, they mint the coins, inspect them, put the sets together, get them to the shippers and so on. And what happens to the returns, melted or is there another followup sale?
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    johnravjohnrav Posts: 230 ✭✭
    I have read, the new ordering system will not be available until the fall, at least.

    Are HH limits announced with the first press release? I have heard many story's about them being introduced in the first week or so, in reaction to large order amounts?
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    EggerEgger Posts: 418 ✭✭


    << <i>If the point is to make sets readily available to the collector, why no HH limits. Does the average collector really need to buy more then 1 or 2 sets. If there is a HH at least the mintage is reasonable. No HH sounds like it works right into the hands of the tv shop-at-homes and the slabshops to cater to the label collectors.

    And when can we expect to get these coins if the Mint doesn't know how many to make until a month goes by. Will we be getting these coins in Sept after, they mint the coins, inspect them, put the sets together, get them to the shippers and so on. And what happens to the returns, melted or is there another followup sale? >>




    I would like to get a set for each of my children and one for me , I'd need 4 sets
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    08HALA2008HALA20 Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭
    Aren't both of these coins going to be first ever issued from San Francisco Mint?

    Doesn't the "S" mint mark make these "special" and will the San Francisco mint ever make proofs again?

    Any prices yet? With special 75th Anniversary mint packaging they will probably be $145 - $150 a set.

    Joe

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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭
    ASE S Proofs have already been produced in the 90s. Nothing special about the regular proof S. Maybe they should put a privy mark of the SF Mint on the regular proof to make it special, but the mint is not very imaginative. They are forcing you to buy the proof to get to the reverse proof. My guess is the single issue regular S proofs will lag in sales this year or at least until the 30 day window is up. Kind of what they did for the 1995 W where you had to buy a complete Gold Proof Set to get the 95 W. The mint is using old tactics. Though the pain for the collector is less this time since the regular proof will be priced the same as the reverse proof or close to it.
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    << <i>
    ...Don't forget this is not your Mama's regular proof. 800k in six weeks for a routine 2010 proof coin and this is an RP...could approach a million in a month

    ...One good thing is that we won't have to send unopened boxes for grading AND we can check the coins before submitting to see if they are worth paying the piper

    ...and...the chaos on the first day of availability will be lessened..not by much but at least a little image

    ...it does take a bit of wind out of the deal though. The thrill of victory just won't be there.... >>



    Yes, its possible the 400-500k could be a base, but if 1M at 140 is $140,000,000. Then again the UHR would have totaled sales in that vacinity.
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    08HALA2008HALA20 Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭


    << <i>ASE S Proofs have already been produced in the 90s. Nothing special about the regular proof S. Maybe they should put a privy mark of the SF Mint on the regular proof to make it special, but the mint is not very imaginative. They are forcing you to buy the proof to get to the reverse proof. My guess is the single issue regular S proofs will lag in sales this year or at least until the 30 day window is up. Kind of what they did for the 1995 W where you had to buy a complete Gold Proof Set to get the 95 W. The mint is using old tactics. Though the pain for the collector is less this time since the regular proof will be priced the same as the reverse proof or close to it. >>




    Thanks for the correction. I just checked eBay and saw many "S" proofs.

    Joe
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    << <i>

    << <i>If the point is to make sets readily available to the collector, why no HH limits. Does the average collector really need to buy more then 1 or 2 sets. If there is a HH at least the mintage is reasonable. No HH sounds like it works right into the hands of the tv shop-at-homes and the slabshops to cater to the label collectors.

    And when can we expect to get these coins if the Mint doesn't know how many to make until a month goes by. Will we be getting these coins in Sept after, they mint the coins, inspect them, put the sets together, get them to the shippers and so on. And what happens to the returns, melted or is there another followup sale? >>




    I would like to get a set for each of my children and one for me , I'd need 4 sets >>



    Ok we'll up the HH to 4 for ya or you can find a friend to buy two sets. Not that you are going to have much to worry about, as scarcity isn't going to be much of a factor for these
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the mint people did not know any more than what is on the website.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    Do the sale dates have anything to do with the first strike window most TPG's have ????
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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the point is to make sets readily available to the collector, why no HH limits.

    Minted to demand with no HH limits is not the same thing as no HH limits on a limited issue. I think that the Mint did the right thing. You don't have to worry about buying from a TV mass marketer because you will be able to buy as many from the Mint as you want.

    There is no issue here. If you want to speculate, you can speculate to your heart's content. If you want to buy them as gifts, you can buy as many as you want. Putting a HH limit on these would simply lead to more shenanigans, of exactly the type that everyone complained about with the 5-Coin Anniversary Sets.

    If you can't decide what to do within a 30 day window, then you will have to buy from someone besides the Mint. Both coins are unique to the set. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
    These will be nice but without any rarity factor I suspect. Should make the 2006 and 2011 reverse proofs more in demand by comparison.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do the sale dates have anything to do with the first strike window most TPG's have ???? >>




    this one is easy to answer on your own.

    the TPGs window starts with the date of the first coin they receive.


    a couple of scenarios.

    only available online/phone -- it'll take time to process orders, ship, be received and re-shipped to pcgs.
    available same day from sales counters, too -- someone could buy from the counter and ship to pcgs that same day.


    it's all a matter of how fast after the release dates people can get them and send them to pcgs.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If the point is to make sets readily available to the collector, why no HH limits.

    Minted to demand with no HH limits is not the same thing as no HH limits on a limited issue. I think that the Mint did the right thing. You don't have to worry about buying from a TV mass marketer because you will be able to buy as many from the Mint as you want.

    There is no issue here. If you want to speculate, you can speculate to your heart's content. If you want to buy them as gifts, you can buy as many as you want. Putting a HH limit on these would simply lead to more shenanigans, of exactly the type that everyone complained about with the 5-Coin Anniversary Sets.

    If you can't decide what to do within a 30 day window, then you will have to buy from someone besides the Mint. Both coins are unique to the set. Seems like a no-brainer to me. >>



    Very well stated. I totally agree. The Mint finally got it right.

    There are many coins which were essentially minted to demand (08 W buffs, UHR, etc., etc.) that turned out to be great issues. This may be one. Who knows? In any case, whomever wants these can get as many as they want, no insanity. Looking forward to this issue.
    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
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    RaufusRaufus Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What do you all think the final mintage will be?? My guess is 750K.
    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
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    I think the final mintage will be 900,000.
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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    800k-1M
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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    Because of the popularity of the RP, I see the set holding a premium over mint issue price whatever the mintage. It'll also elevate the 2011 king and the 2006 one year type.
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What do you all think the final mintage will be?? My guess is 750K. >>




    no flip fever, 2 extra coins for everyone to buy this year, one month window.

    500k
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>These will be nice but without any rarity factor I suspect. Should make the 2006 and 2011 reverse proofs more in demand by comparison. >>




    less in demand because any type collectors can purchase the more plentiful ones.
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    The three Reverse Proof ASEs are slightly different: 2006-P with 86-07 reverse design, 2011-P & 2012-S.
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    7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    Minted to demand or 250,000, whichever comes first

    just my opinion, dont shoot the messenger -

    please keep in mind, minted to demand doesnt mean they will produce as many as desired by collectors..........we have seen this time and time again.

    with that said......please dont buy themimage
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    Is it possible the (mint to demand) is a smokescreen and they already have limits that are not going to be advertised............an issue like this has to have advance planning (mint boxes-coa's and blank silver planchets)..........you just can't fire up wood making (for the boxes) and printing presses (for the coa's)...........someone somewhere knows the final mintage (or what they are capable of)..............This issue is simply to appease those that did not get the 25th sets and to ward off would be speculators.................IMO
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    BigABigA Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭
    ....or..they have minted/made packaging for, say, 400-500,000. If the orders exceed that number then they will just make more. Not a big deal since everything is set up already. Ship the minted 4-500k and the rest will ship at a later date.

    Don't forget they are making money on each set sold.....There were over 800k 2010 proofs sold. I doubt they were all minted at once...minted to demand.
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is it possible the (mint to demand) is a smokescreen and they already have limits that are not going to be advertised............an issue like this has to have advance planning (mint boxes-coa's and blank silver planchets)..........you just can't fire up wood making (for the boxes) and printing presses (for the coa's)...........someone somewhere knows the final mintage (or what they are capable of)..............This issue is simply to appease those that did not get the 25th sets and to ward off would be speculators.................IMO >>





    capable of is a good way to put it.


    I wonder what their internal guesses are.


    they do have other things to mint this year. Too bad they aren't made in P or D since they seem to have some employees with some spare time after the dollars were halted for circulation.
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This issue is simply to appease those that did not get the 25th sets and to ward off would be speculators.................IMO >>



    Absolutely correct, IMO.

    The quantity to be produced is probably known, however, not by the collecting community.

    Since we have heard production begins somewhere around May 7, with a June 7th release, and a four week ordering period - I would think there is a maximum 6 week production period.

    Just how many sets can be produced in 6 weeks?

    More than 100,000 - but nowhere near 1mm or 500,000, my guess is between 225,000 and 300,000 sets.
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    With that mintage and no limits it would only take a few of the big guy's about 3 days and they would be sold outimage..............This could get fun!
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    7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    Has the USM indicated a stated HH limit? I dont remember reading anything.....but I would expect it will enact a 5 or 10 set limit per HH.
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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Has the USM indicated a stated HH limit? I dont remember reading anything.....but I would expect it will enact a 5 or 10 set limit per HH. >>



    A HH limit would create some premium offers on the BST. There has to be a HH limit...
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭
    They are going to make enough of these to make last years coin a rarity.

    Watch the price jump on them.
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    If they were to have time to strike say roughly 300,000 sets we would have a "s" mint mark cameo proof with a mintage thats looks much like the 1994 issue. Its about 90-100 bucks now. A 300,000 mintage 2012S verse proof would be a nice coin and introduce more of the public to the series. That also places increased long term price pressure on the 2011 reverse proof at about 99,9xx mintage. 99,000 is a long way from 300,000.

    It is my sometimes unpopular opinion that a long parade of random walk mintage special issues in the 200,000-400,000 range are good for the series and the 2011S and 2011P in particular.

    I went shopping this week hoping to find more $450 PF70 reverse proofs when I got the final configuration info on the 2012s set. I was buying the 2011P in the $450 price range 1-2 months ago and they are GONE. $480-500 is about the bottom now.

    I think charting the CC mint state Morgan populations vs MS-63 price is helpful in looking at these ASEs as they age a little.

    Eric




    Standard Disclaimer: I enjoy sharing my views and research with my fellow collectors. While I am very careful in what I share through one of my books or the internet my data is not perfect nor is my interpretation of the data. If you take an interest and buy something that I like you can take a loss. When posting opinions here, they are my opinions, not necessarily those of ModernCoinMart's. The descriptions I am doing on their website are mainly facts as I know them to be with some comparisons but no predictions or investment advice
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hmmmm

    two coin set.

    so twice as much minting work in one month than if they sold one month's mintages of proof ASEs alone.
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    Like I said before.....

    all those worried about an absolutely astronomical mintage.........please refrain from puchasingimage
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    KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    THIS JUST IN:

    As reported in the Numismatic News email:
    How popular will the American Eagle San Francisco two-coin silver proof set be when it goes on sale June 7? Just check the "sales odometer."
    "In an effort to publicly share the rate of sales of what we expect to be a very popular product, there will be a sales odometer placed on the U.S. Mint's website ordering page to track daily sales of the set," said Tom Jurkowsky, Mint public affairs director.
    ......“These sets will be produced to meet demand to allow as many customers as possible to purchase them,” Jurkowsky said.
    Full Story Link


    This looks like a good idea by the mint. It should clear up a lot of speculation and order number calculations. Depending on how accurate and real time it actually is.

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    This is already on the Mint site

    2012 American Eagle San Francisco Two-Coin Silver Proof Set

    For only four weeks, from June 7, 2012, to July 5, 2012, the United States Mint will be offering a special new set to coin enthusiasts. The 2012 American Eagle San Francisco Two-Coin Silver Proof Set is an exquisite collection that captures the essence and timeless beauty of the American Eagle Silver Coins. This set -- one American Eagle Silver Proof Coin and one American Eagle Silver Reverse Proof Coin minted at the United States Mint at San Francisco -- is a testament to the fine, exacting craftsmanship that has been a United States Mint hallmark since 1792.

    A special feature of this elegant two-coin set is the coin featuring a “reverse proof” finish. Reversing the mirror-like background finish of a traditional proof coin and applying it to the design elements of the coin achieves a magnificent contrast.

    Coin Specifications
    Specification Name Specification Value 2nd Specification Value
    Quality: Proof Reverse Proof
    Composition: 99.9% silver 99.9% silver
    Edge: Reeded Reeded
    Facility: San Francisco San Francisco
    Mint Mark: S S
    Mintage: To demand To demand

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    66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭


    << <i>THIS JUST IN:

    As reported in the Numismatic News email:
    How popular will the American Eagle San Francisco two-coin silver proof set be when it goes on sale June 7? Just check the "sales odometer."
    "In an effort to publicly share the rate of sales of what we expect to be a very popular product, there will be a sales odometer placed on the U.S. Mint's website ordering page to track daily sales of the set," said Tom Jurkowsky, Mint public affairs director.
    ......“These sets will be produced to meet demand to allow as many customers as possible to purchase them,” Jurkowsky said.
    Full Story Link


    This looks like a good idea by the mint. It should clear up a lot of speculation and order number calculations. Depending on how accurate and real time it actually is. >>



    If the counter is correctimage
    Need something designed and 3D printed?
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    still in for 1


    but only 1.


    I'm not sue why 7over8 is hot on these. care to share?
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    The ASE Reverse Proofs are a gift from the Mint. The 2006 RP at 250,000 is selling in the $400-450 range in 70.
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    johnravjohnrav Posts: 230 ✭✭
    I was still not sure if there is-or will be a HH limit? it was not mentioned at all.

    USM CS says: No HH limit.

    and thank you for all the input, and comparisons to past releases.
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    mach19mach19 Posts: 4,002 ✭✭
    TIN SOLDIERS & NIXON COMING image
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    mach19mach19 Posts: 4,002 ✭✭
    TIN SOLDIERS & NIXON COMING image

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