To avoid a repeat of the 25th Anniversary Set debacle, the Mint may employ the "mint to demand" marketing approach to any future special coins in the ASE series.
If this is the case, I doubt that future offerings will have mintages anywhere near as low as 100,000.
IMO the current keys are "safe" for the foreseeable future.
100,000 is probably safe, but some errors and varieties (like 08/07) will continue to make the ASEs interesting. I'm not convinced they're always Mint "mistakes," but I may be giving the USM too much credit.
<< <i>To avoid a repeat of the 25th Anniversary Set debacle, the Mint may employ the "mint to demand" marketing approach to any future special coins in the ASE series.
If this is the case, I doubt that future offerings will have mintages anywhere near as low as 100,000.
IMO the current keys are "safe" for the foreseeable future. >>
I sometimes wonder about US Mint special issues, and if they plan, intentionally, to create buzz, and thus, perceived value, for limited mintage items. While their stated minting to fill demand for the 20coin sets would address the problems those wanting - but not getting - the 25th ASE sets (and appease those who weren't lucky enough to secure even one set), I suspect this won't necessarly be the case long-term.
The Mint's new ordering system, presumably, will focus on mitigating those past ordering issues, and once in place, the mint-to-order approach may slowly wane. If the Mint wants to continue to create interest in potentially valuable issues - or rather, those which have the potential due to their rarity/limited mintage - I suspect the 2-coin sets may NOT be as flippable as we all would like to conclude. There may actually be a ton of them out there, since most everyone who wants one will have plenty of time to get through to the Mint, and the demand after-market could be non-existent.
That doesn't mean they'll continue that approach in the future, however, in my view, interest in US Mint issues must go beyond the mere collecting of whatever the presses turn out - inevitably, the Mint must also create the perception that some issues - particularly those whose production and/or mintage is limited - will increase in value.
UBERCOINER
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
<< <i>In an attempt to avoid the problems of the past, the U.S. Mint will take pre-orders for the set and strike as many as collectors purchase. The U.S. Mint is likely to limit the number of sets sold during the pre-sale period, but there will be no limits on the number of sets produced. >>
<< <i>The Mint will be offering the sets for sale during a period of only four weeks from June 7, 2012 to July 5, 2012. During this time, there will be no household limits and no maximum mintage. The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period. >>
If you're looking to have these graded, you might want to rethink that strategy. By waiting until week 4 to order, you are putting a lot of faith in the Mint to get your set out the door within the first strike 30 day window. Now I know a lot of collectors scoff at this and refuse to pay the extra $18 fee to our hosts, but the truth of the matter is, looking at recent pricing of PCGS 70 RP's, that "silly label" is currently worth about a hundred bucks. Definitely something to think about.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
If MS 70 grades are as prolific from the TPGs for these 75th Anny sets as they were w/the 2011 25th Anny, it might make sense just to buy graded aftermarket 70s after the hub-bub has died down because the 75th sets mintage will be huge as opposed to 100K, the 100K mintage supports the premium on the 25th Anny set.
Good point. However, as we saw from last year's sets, not all 70's are created equal. I kinda like doing my own cherrypicking. And even though the buyer is king on ebay, it's still a real hassle to return stuff - especially the graded stuff. You can create a lot of resentment doing that. And, if I recall correctly, even some of the big dealers with return policies got really tired of accepting returns on 25th Anny graded coins.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>Good point. However, as we saw from last year's sets, not all 70's are created equal. I kinda like doing my own cherrypicking. And even though the buyer is king on ebay, it's still a real hassle to return stuff - especially the graded stuff. You can create a lot of resentment doing that. And, if I recall correctly, even some of the big dealers with return policies got really tired of accepting returns on 25th Anny graded coins. >>
Agreed there.
I will be in for a few of these, as they will probably be nice sets (though I really don't like the frosting on these new proofs!) Will be interesting to see how many orders go through the system.
25th Anniversary's they are not but they might be decent in the long term as some of the other "mint to demand" have worked out. Perhaps the mint will throw us a bone and there will be a nice error or two.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
Has anyone heard or seen anything on the price yet?
I am thinking I will get a couple from the mint directly. But will wait and get a graded set or two later, after all the mint numbers and the tag options from PCGS are public
Thinking that if the price range is around $135 they will mint 500-600k sets. But if the mint price goes say $180-$200 then you could see alot less minted. After the price mark-up of the 25th Ann. sets the mint might be wanting some of the flipper money and just raise prices and produce to demand........just a thought anyway.
Still no price, probably won't be priced for 2-3 weeks. I really like the OGP on these and the 25ths. I hope the slabbed coins fit in the OGP--that was a nice touch with the 25th set.
<< <i>Still no price, probably won't be priced for 2-3 weeks. I really like the OGP on these and the 25ths. I hope the slabbed coins fit in the OGP--that was a nice touch with the 25th set. >>
If not, you could always use an empty 25th Anniversary box for a set of slabbed 2012 silver eagles. As it happens, there are five different ones this year also: bullion, 2012-W unc. and proof, and 2012-S proof and reverse proof.
<< <i>Thinking that if the price range is around $135 they will mint 500-600k sets >>
I heard in the neighborhood of $130.
And they most likely wont exceed 300,000 sets. Nowhere near the 500-600k you mention. That's waaaaaaay more than a months production.
FS or ER PR70 on the reverse proof, even at 300,000 mintage is a $150-$200 coin. A no brainer. Like someone said on an earlier post - hats off to the US Mint.
Great. No we can buy a couple hundred sets........
The mintage can be more than a month's production, a month is just the ordering period. If a large number of orders show up on the last day of the ordering period, these orders can be filled even if it takes several more months to strike the coins.
<< <i>Thinking that if the price range is around $135 they will mint 500-600k sets >>
I heard in the neighborhood of $130.
And they most likely wont exceed 300,000 sets. Nowhere near the 500-600k you mention. That's waaaaaaay more than a months production.
FS or ER PR70 on the reverse proof, even at 300,000 mintage is a $150-$200 coin. A no brainer. Like someone said on an earlier post - hats off to the US Mint.
Great. No we can buy a couple hundred sets........ >>
As was posted earlier:
<< The Mint will be offering the sets for sale during a period of only four weeks from June 7, 2012 to July 5, 2012. During this time, there will be no household limits and no maximum mintage. The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period>>
My guess is the single proof will wane in sales. The mint probably knows this will happen. They could have minted over 800K of the regular proofs already. Just need to mint the reverse proof for the set. Would not take long at all.
In another thread, Ricko said that a bath in Acetone before shipping off to the graders will prevent milk spots. Has anyone done this and is it effective? Ricko is one of the anchors of this forum and what he says is generally gospel, but has anyone else something to confirm this solution to an ASE problem?
<< <i>My guess is the single proof will wane in sales. The mint probably knows this will happen. They could have minted over 800K of the regular proofs already. Just need to mint the reverse proof for the set. Would not take long at all. >>
The regular annual proofs are mintmarked "W", but both the regular proofs and reverse proofs in the 2-coin set will be mintmarked "S".
Anyone wanting all the 2012 proofs will need to acquire both the regular "W" proof and the 2-coin set.
Anyone wanting all the 2012 proofs will need to acquire both the regular "W" proof and the 2-coin set. >>
That should insure that the sales are really solid. I suspect there is a fairly significant group that does not care about the fancy reverse proofs but will have to have a traditional proof with the "S" mint mark.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Accordin to today's press release from the mint there will be no household ordering limits on this set... It would be interesting for someone with more knowledge on this forum then yours truly to put a poll up on how many sets people plan to order after this news. I will be in for a few sets but not gonna load up on them by any means!
<< <i> The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period >>
We have seen this time and time again. The USM has an upper limit in mind. My guess is 300k. It is not endless.....you dont just call up your box manufacturer and get another 2,342 boxes......because you received more orders than expected. My guess is they start minting in May and continue through mid June - watching demand and also their supply of boxes, coa's, etc.
Stated sales periods, mint to demand, etc. Then we find out there arent any left.
Oh I cant wait for the first order that does not get filled - ordered before the cutoff!!!!!!!
Like I said before, please refrain from ordering any, it will help the rest of us
<< <i> The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period >>
We have seen this time and time again. The USM has an upper limit in mind. My guess is 300k. It is not endless.....you dont just call up your box manufacturer and get another 2,342 boxes......because you received more orders than expected. My guess is they start minting in May and continue through mid June - watching demand and also their supply of boxes, coa's, etc.
Stated sales periods, mint to demand, etc. Then we find out there arent any left.
Oh I cant wait for the first order that does not get filled - ordered before the cutoff!!!!!!!
Like I said before, please refrain from ordering any, it will help the rest of us >>
Maybe....or......they have plans to mint 400,000 in May and have the packaging for those. They stated they would "mint to demand" so those 400k would be shipped "in early July" and the remaining orders would be minted, packages created and shipped in six or so weeks after the deadline. They ALL do not have to be minted before the sale.
After all it is a profit generator for the Mint....they would relish 400-500k more orders and ship them whenever the sets are ready. No rush...
If you took your worst realistic downside on this set, you will realize your possible loss is probably in the neighborhood of 3-8%.
Your upside is probably 30-50% once the sale is over (wholesale) - not considering what the S mint RP PR70's will be bringing in ER or FS holders (has to bring $150 at the worst case).
Those who sit back may wait quite a long time for delivery - so kiss the ER/FS labels goodbye.
Estimates of 500k+ sets are way out of line, you wont see more than 350k.
<< <i>If you took your worst realistic downside on this set, you will realize your possible loss is probably in the neighborhood of 3-8%.
Your upside is probably 30-50% once the sale is over (wholesale) - not considering what the S mint RP PR70's will be bringing in ER or FS holders (has to bring $150 at the worst case).
Those who sit back may wait quite a long time for delivery - so kiss the ER/FS labels goodbye.
Estimates of 500k+ sets are way out of line, you wont see more than 350k. >>
I'm still going for 500k sets
I'm interested in hearing your rationale on why this set will be so popular in the aftermarket considering the "mint to demand" and "no household limit" thing they are trying.
<< <i>If you took your worst realistic downside on this set, you will realize your possible loss is probably in the neighborhood of 3-8%.
Your upside is probably 30-50% once the sale is over (wholesale) - not considering what the S mint RP PR70's will be bringing in ER or FS holders (has to bring $150 at the worst case).
Those who sit back may wait quite a long time for delivery - so kiss the ER/FS labels goodbye.
Estimates of 500k+ sets are way out of line, you wont see more than 350k. >>
I'm still going for 500k sets
I'm interested in hearing your rationale on why this set will be so popular in the aftermarket considering the "mint to demand" and "no household limit" thing they are trying. >>
Wow! You're getting 500k sets yourself? Stud! I'm only going to get a handful myself
As to the probable rationale on an increase in price in the aftermarket? If I recall on the 2006 20th Annv SAE sets, they were still "available" but there was a 60% increase pretty quickly. I recall cherrypicking what I thought were 70s to send in and then ebaying the rest. I got ~$160 per set and this was just weeks after ordering and a week or two after receiving.
<< <i>As to the probable rationale on an increase in price in the aftermarket? If I recall on the 2006 20th Annv SAE sets, they were still "available" but there was a 60% increase pretty quickly. I recall cherrypicking what I thought were 70s to send in and then ebaying the rest. I got ~$160 per set and this was just weeks after ordering and a week or two after receiving. >>
<< <i>I'm interested in hearing your rationale on why this set will be so popular in the aftermarket considering the "mint to demand" and "no household limit" thing they are trying. >>
Popular coin with enormous following, RP coin will be the cheapest of the three to acquire - probably $100 raw alone, most likely $150-$160 in a ER or FS 70 holder
Raw proof eagles wholesale for $50.....the RP wont wholesale less than $75, that's $125.......if you are priced at $129, you're downside is about 3%
Would you rather scramble for a limited issue with a 5 HH limit and double your money, or buy to demand and make smaller margins on quantities?
Example of the latter is the 2001 Buffalo $1's....................
I prefer to buy the 25th anniv reverse proof which will increase in value much faster when collectors start wanting to have one and not being able to find one because of their scarcity.
Comments
<< <i>Like I said before.....
all those worried about an absolutely astronomical mintage.........please refrain from puchasing
I don't mean to alarm anyone, but the issue will probably sell below spot by 100%. Absolutely refrain. I promise I will.
If this is the case, I doubt that future offerings will have mintages anywhere near as low as 100,000.
IMO the current keys are "safe" for the foreseeable future.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>To avoid a repeat of the 25th Anniversary Set debacle, the Mint may employ the "mint to demand" marketing approach to any future special coins in the ASE series.
If this is the case, I doubt that future offerings will have mintages anywhere near as low as 100,000.
IMO the current keys are "safe" for the foreseeable future. >>
I sometimes wonder about US Mint special issues, and if they plan, intentionally, to create buzz, and thus, perceived value, for limited mintage items. While their stated minting to fill demand for the 20coin sets would address the problems those wanting - but not getting - the 25th ASE sets (and appease those who weren't lucky enough to secure even one set), I suspect this won't necessarly be the case long-term.
The Mint's new ordering system, presumably, will focus on mitigating those past ordering issues, and once in place, the mint-to-order approach may slowly wane. If the Mint wants to continue to create interest in potentially valuable issues - or rather, those which have the potential due to their rarity/limited mintage - I suspect the 2-coin sets may NOT be as flippable as we all would like to conclude. There may actually be a ton of them out there, since most everyone who wants one will have plenty of time to get through to the Mint, and the demand after-market could be non-existent.
That doesn't mean they'll continue that approach in the future, however, in my view, interest in US Mint issues must go beyond the mere collecting of whatever the presses turn out - inevitably, the Mint must also create the perception that some issues - particularly those whose production and/or mintage is limited - will increase in value.
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
<< <i>In an attempt to avoid the problems of the past, the U.S. Mint will take pre-orders for the set and strike as many as collectors purchase. The U.S. Mint is likely to limit the number of sets sold during the pre-sale period, but there will be no limits on the number of sets produced. >>
<< <i>The Mint will be offering the sets for sale during a period of only four weeks from June 7, 2012 to July 5, 2012. During this time, there will be no household limits and no maximum mintage. The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period. >>
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
If you're looking to have these graded, you might want to rethink that strategy.
By waiting until week 4 to order, you are putting a lot of faith in the Mint to get
your set out the door within the first strike 30 day window. Now I know a lot of
collectors scoff at this and refuse to pay the extra $18 fee to our hosts, but the
truth of the matter is, looking at recent pricing of PCGS 70 RP's, that "silly label"
is currently worth about a hundred bucks. Definitely something to think about.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
Good point. However, as we saw from last year's sets, not all 70's are created equal. I kinda like doing my own cherrypicking. And even though the buyer is king on ebay, it's still a real hassle to return stuff - especially the graded stuff. You can create a lot of resentment doing that. And, if I recall correctly, even some of the big dealers with return policies got really tired of accepting returns on 25th Anny graded coins.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>Good point. However, as we saw from last year's sets, not all 70's are created equal. I kinda like doing my own cherrypicking. And even though the buyer is king on ebay, it's still a real hassle to return stuff - especially the graded stuff. You can create a lot of resentment doing that. And, if I recall correctly, even some of the big dealers with return policies got really tired of accepting returns on 25th Anny graded coins. >>
Agreed there.
I will be in for a few of these, as they will probably be nice sets (though I really don't like the frosting on these new proofs!) Will be interesting to see how many orders go through the system.
25th Anniversary's they are not but they might be decent in the long term as some of the other "mint to demand" have worked out. Perhaps the mint will throw us a bone and there will be a nice error or two.
I am thinking I will get a couple from the mint directly. But will wait and get a graded set or two later, after all the mint numbers and the tag options from PCGS are public
Thinking that if the price range is around $135 they will mint 500-600k sets. But if the mint price goes say $180-$200 then you could see alot less minted. After the price mark-up of the 25th Ann. sets the mint might be wanting some of the flipper money and just raise prices and produce to demand........just a thought anyway.
<< <i>Still no price, probably won't be priced for 2-3 weeks. I really like the OGP on these and the 25ths. I hope the slabbed coins fit in the OGP--that was a nice touch with the 25th set. >>
If not, you could always use an empty 25th Anniversary box for a set of slabbed 2012 silver eagles. As it happens, there are five different ones this year also: bullion, 2012-W unc. and proof, and 2012-S proof and reverse proof.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
.....and....I am VERY glad about what this will do for the 2011 RP
These will re-invigorate the 2011's.
The 2011 reverse proof will be the cadillac of the group.
I wish I could afford to own more of them.
<< <i>Thinking that if the price range is around $135 they will mint 500-600k sets >>
I heard in the neighborhood of $130.
And they most likely wont exceed 300,000 sets. Nowhere near the 500-600k you mention. That's waaaaaaay more than a months production.
FS or ER PR70 on the reverse proof, even at 300,000 mintage is a $150-$200 coin. A no brainer. Like someone said on an earlier post - hats off to the US Mint.
Great. No we can buy a couple hundred sets........
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>Thinking that if the price range is around $135 they will mint 500-600k sets >>
I heard in the neighborhood of $130.
And they most likely wont exceed 300,000 sets. Nowhere near the 500-600k you mention. That's waaaaaaay more than a months production.
FS or ER PR70 on the reverse proof, even at 300,000 mintage is a $150-$200 coin. A no brainer. Like someone said on an earlier post - hats off to the US Mint.
Great. No we can buy a couple hundred sets........ >>
As was posted earlier:
<< The Mint will be offering the sets for sale during a period of only four weeks from June 7, 2012 to July 5, 2012. During this time, there will be no household limits and no maximum mintage. The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period>>
I am still going with 800-900k
Box of 20
<< <i>My guess is the single proof will wane in sales. The mint probably knows this will happen. They could have minted over 800K of the regular proofs already. Just need to mint the reverse proof for the set. Would not take long at all. >>
The regular annual proofs are mintmarked "W", but both the regular proofs and reverse proofs in the 2-coin set will be mintmarked "S".
Anyone wanting all the 2012 proofs will need to acquire both the regular "W" proof and the 2-coin set.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
That should insure that the sales are really solid. I suspect there is a fairly significant group that does not care about the fancy reverse proofs but will have to have a traditional proof with the "S" mint mark.
pricing to be determined.
<< <i>today's no household limit press release
pricing to be determined. >>
Probably $120-$130, based on what they normally charge for proof Eagles these days.
Box of 20
Box of 20
<< <i>How often does the Mint publish sales figures? >>
Weekly, I'm wondering if they won't publish these for a month to leave the mystery.
Ebay San Fran
<< <i> The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period >>
We have seen this time and time again. The USM has an upper limit in mind. My guess is 300k. It is not endless.....you dont just call up your box manufacturer and get another 2,342 boxes......because you received more orders than expected. My guess is they start minting in May and continue through mid June - watching demand and also their supply of boxes, coa's, etc.
Stated sales periods, mint to demand, etc. Then we find out there arent any left.
Oh I cant wait for the first order that does not get filled - ordered before the cutoff!!!!!!!
Like I said before, please refrain from ordering any, it will help the rest of us
<< <i>
<< <i> The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period >>
We have seen this time and time again. The USM has an upper limit in mind. My guess is 300k. It is not endless.....you dont just call up your box manufacturer and get another 2,342 boxes......because you received more orders than expected. My guess is they start minting in May and continue through mid June - watching demand and also their supply of boxes, coa's, etc.
Stated sales periods, mint to demand, etc. Then we find out there arent any left.
Oh I cant wait for the first order that does not get filled - ordered before the cutoff!!!!!!!
Like I said before, please refrain from ordering any, it will help the rest of us
Maybe....or......they have plans to mint 400,000 in May and have the packaging for those. They stated they would "mint to demand" so those 400k would be shipped "in early July" and the remaining orders would be minted, packages created and shipped in six or so weeks after the deadline. They ALL do not have to be minted before the sale.
After all it is a profit generator for the Mint....they would relish 400-500k more orders and ship them whenever the sets are ready. No rush...
Your upside is probably 30-50% once the sale is over (wholesale) - not considering what the S mint RP PR70's will be bringing in ER or FS holders (has to bring $150 at the worst case).
Those who sit back may wait quite a long time for delivery - so kiss the ER/FS labels goodbye.
Estimates of 500k+ sets are way out of line, you wont see more than 350k.
<< <i> Those who sit back may wait quite a long time for delivery - so kiss the ER/FS labels goodbye.
Estimates of 500k+ sets are way out of line, you wont see more than 350k. >>
1)Agree
2) REALLY disagree ....the regular yearly proof has sold near that in less than 3 weeks...The RP should spark a tad more interest than that
<< <i>If you took your worst realistic downside on this set, you will realize your possible loss is probably in the neighborhood of 3-8%.
Your upside is probably 30-50% once the sale is over (wholesale) - not considering what the S mint RP PR70's will be bringing in ER or FS holders (has to bring $150 at the worst case).
Those who sit back may wait quite a long time for delivery - so kiss the ER/FS labels goodbye.
Estimates of 500k+ sets are way out of line, you wont see more than 350k. >>
I'm still going for 500k sets
I'm interested in hearing your rationale on why this set will be so popular in the aftermarket considering the "mint to demand" and "no household limit" thing they are trying.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you took your worst realistic downside on this set, you will realize your possible loss is probably in the neighborhood of 3-8%.
Your upside is probably 30-50% once the sale is over (wholesale) - not considering what the S mint RP PR70's will be bringing in ER or FS holders (has to bring $150 at the worst case).
Those who sit back may wait quite a long time for delivery - so kiss the ER/FS labels goodbye.
Estimates of 500k+ sets are way out of line, you wont see more than 350k. >>
I'm still going for 500k sets
I'm interested in hearing your rationale on why this set will be so popular in the aftermarket considering the "mint to demand" and "no household limit" thing they are trying. >>
Wow! You're getting 500k sets yourself? Stud!
I'm only going to get a handful myself
As to the probable rationale on an increase in price in the aftermarket? If I recall on the 2006 20th Annv SAE sets, they were still "available" but there was a 60% increase pretty quickly. I recall cherrypicking what I thought were 70s to send in and then ebaying the rest. I got ~$160 per set and this was just weeks after ordering and a week or two after receiving.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>As to the probable rationale on an increase in price in the aftermarket? If I recall on the 2006 20th Annv SAE sets, they were still "available" but there was a 60% increase pretty quickly. I recall cherrypicking what I thought were 70s to send in and then ebaying the rest. I got ~$160 per set and this was just weeks after ordering and a week or two after receiving. >>
I'm surprised you opened the boxes....
<< <i>I'm interested in hearing your rationale on why this set will be so popular in the aftermarket considering the "mint to demand" and "no household limit" thing they are trying. >>
Popular coin with enormous following, RP coin will be the cheapest of the three to acquire - probably $100 raw alone, most likely $150-$160 in a ER or FS 70 holder
Raw proof eagles wholesale for $50.....the RP wont wholesale less than $75, that's $125.......if you are priced at $129, you're downside is about 3%
Would you rather scramble for a limited issue with a 5 HH limit and double your money, or buy to demand and make smaller margins on quantities?
Example of the latter is the 2001 Buffalo $1's....................
I prefer to buy the 25th anniv reverse proof which will increase in value much faster when collectors start wanting to have one and not being able to find one because of their scarcity.