<< <i>Thanks 08HALA20, your spreadsheet is very helpful.
edited to add: I hand delivered my 5 set box to PCGS at the Baltimore Show. Should have grades by the end of the week. >>
Look forward to your grades. I think the extra round of shipping might be killing these.
I think the large submitters did not ship them but hand delivered them.
I am holding my BO5 till I can deliver them.
Joe >>
Seriously, an extra round of shipping makes the coins (in capsules) go down in grade??? Come on... plus some the big dealers who submitted in quantity had to have their buyers ship the boxes to them first, so their coins went though just as much mailing. Maybe that's why so many more NGC 70s... they're closer to the Mint than PCGS so less time in the mail to damage the coins... whatever!!!!
I could take my coin in the capsule and bounce it all over the place and it isn't going to put even a minor scuff on the coin or put any hits or breaks in the frost. As long as that coin stays in the capsule, you're going to have a very hard time lowering the grade through the mail.
Seriously, an extra round of shipping makes the coins (in capsules) go down in grade??? Come on... plus some the big dealers who submitted in quantity had to have their buyers ship the boxes to them first, so their coins went though just as much mailing. Maybe that's why so many more NGC 70s... they're closer to the Mint than PCGS so less time in the mail to damage the coins... whatever!!!!
I could take my coin in the capsule and bounce it all over the place and it isn't going to put even a minor scuff on the coin or put any hits or breaks in the frost. As long as that coin stays in the capsule, you're going to have a very hard time lowering the grade through the mail.
illini420, PCGS Reps at the Baltimore show told me that they had several submissions with coins out of their capsules.
Some folks here on the forum said the same thing.
I'm sure the % was low enough that it did not have a big impact on the overall grading scenario.
<< <i>Seriously, an extra round of shipping makes the coins (in capsules) go down in grade??? Come on... plus some the big dealers who submitted in quantity had to have their buyers ship the boxes to them first, so their coins went though just as much mailing. Maybe that's why so many more NGC 70s... they're closer to the Mint than PCGS so less time in the mail to damage the coins... whatever!!!!
I could take my coin in the capsule and bounce it all over the place and it isn't going to put even a minor scuff on the coin or put any hits or breaks in the frost. As long as that coin stays in the capsule, you're going to have a very hard time lowering the grade through the mail.
illini420, PCGS Reps at the Baltimore show told me that they had several submissions with coins out of their capsules.
Some folks here on the forum said the same thing.
I'm sure the % was low enough that it did not have a big impact on the overall grading scenario. >>
I agree that a coin out of the capsule will get some extra damage during extra shipment... but those are the coins that are going to get 68 and lower anyways, just in the shipment from the Mint, unless they are super lucky. But you could ship a coin in the capsule 100 times and as long as it stays in the capsule, its grade should not go down.
The number of 70's are leveling off around 55% overall from a high of around 65% for first week.
Obviously those who posted results here have not seen 50 %. I believe one reported 44% but most around 15-20%
Has anyone hand delivered them to PCGS and what % did you get?
>>
08HALA20,
I just received my coins this week. I don't know how to describe my feeling :~
I sent in 5 submissions, with 1 Bo5 for the first four submissions and 2 Bo5 for the fifth submission, so I have submitted quite a large population (30 sets) that I think it is statistically large enough population to get result not too far from the mean.
However, I was WRONG. I don't know how the total population can be around 50% at this moment.
I have 5 boxes directly shipped to me or to my friends, which I picked them up myself, so these 5 boxes did not get shipped twice. Also those boxes are from orders span from 12:05 to 3:00pm, so I don't think the quality difference from different shipment is that big.
My conclusion: My submission result are in line with the shared PCGS results, and to those reported here as individual submitters. I think that most of the Flag Label submission got the 15%-20% percent.
I don't want to speculate why the overall percentage is around 50% because I don't want to get that far and get banned. >>
I'd be pretty dissapointed with those grades after looking at the pop reports. It would have be reasonble for you to think you would be getting back about 15-17 MS 70 sets and some partials after seeing the pop reports. WOW!
I've got no PR70 for my Reverse Proof and only one for "S" from my Box of 5
I'm thinking to try the "second chance" and debating 2 options:
1. Submit for regrade using current CC special. Pros: The cost is only 4*14 Modern Submission + S/H fees. No additional charge for 5 First Strike Cons: Re-grade is possibly biased
2. Crack them out and resubmit fresh in next 2 days (Dec 7th is cut-off) Pros: True "second" chance Cons: $104 more (5*18 + 14) than option one
I've got no PR70 for my Reverse Proof and only one for "S" from my Box of 5
I'm thinking to try the "second chance" and debating 2 options:
1. Submit for regrade using current CC special. Pros: The cost is only 4*14 Modern Submission + S/H fees. No additional charge for 5 First Strike Cons: Re-grade is possibly biased
2. Crack them out and resubmit fresh in next 2 days (Dec 7th is cut-off) Pros: True "second" chance Cons: $104 more (5*18 + 14) than option one
Any suggestions? >>
The first thing I'd do is to really look at the coins to see why they may have been graded 69. 16/25 of my coins were graded 69 or lower and on 14 of them I could see a reason why. Only on 2 of the coins did I not understand why they were not perfect (maybe an issue hidden by the rubber gasket? or maybe I just didn't see it?).
<< <i>Mine were hand delivered, but shipped twice total before being walked in
This is getting out of hands - do I need to count now a number of delivery attempts by UPS to estimate the rate of 70s
My last box was delivered on the last 3rd attempt - should I even not bother submitting them >>
I don't think the shipping part matters. Mine were shipped to me from the mint. Then I shipped them 600 miles south. Then that person to them to our hosts. I heard rattling so some were out bouncing in the box, obviously not out of the capsules based on grades. Even with shipping twice I got very good grades.
To bad you didn't get a sequential numbered set in either 69 or 70
Too bad PCGS won't take all the 70's and put them in sequence. Will they do that on request? Did anyone get a set like this on this forum? What kind of premium does a seller/buyer put on that set??
I have been collecting for around 40 years, but I never considered sending any coins in for grading until all the excitement over the 25th Anniversary ASEs, so please forgive my ignorance in asking this question. I'm just trying to understand and don't want to make an expensive mistake. Since all coins in the 25th Anniversary Set were struck at the same time, and since all sets submitted to PCGS in a mint sealed box are eligible for First Strike designation in addition to the 25th Anniversary Set designation, what is the value in paying $90/set for First Strike? Is it really just to have all the labels in a collection (after PCGS started using First Strike) look the same? Will collectors really pay a premium for this in a set like this where all submitted sets are eligible by definition? I ask because while it seems ridiculous to me to pay $450 to have a label placed on 5 sets that any set that is submitted intact is eligible for, I am afraid of cheaping out and having it cost me more than the $450 if I sell later. Please help!!!!
NJCoin, while I share the same concerns and have the same feelings, it does appear that overall FS coins will sell for approx $20 (if not more) than non-FS versions on sites like eBay. Your local B&M probably won't. In some cases it does seem to pay off, like for the 2009 UHR. If you have an MS70PL FS UHR, it's worth several hundred more than the non-FS version, but in that case the FS version is rare due to the slow shipping/distribution of those coins.
First Strike Liberty spouses, buffalo gold fractionals and collector platinum/gold/silver eagles with ms/pf70 grades all sell for hundreds and in some cases a thousand dollars more than the exact same coin with a regular level. Do an ebay completed listing search on a few of these series? In the long run who knows if the label will hold value. Right now with these series in particular, it seems like a pretty safe bet and likely good investment if you plan to sell any coins in the next few years.if you get a bunch of 69s you'll still likely recoup the label cost . with 70s ,especially with shipping delays or popular issues ,you'll make some bucks.
<< <i>To bad you didn't get a sequential numbered set in either 69 or 70
Too bad PCGS won't take all the 70's and put them in sequence. Will they do that on request? Did anyone get a set like this on this forum? What kind of premium does a seller/buyer put on that set?? >>
It is silly and meaningless to all but the most anal/OCD of collectors mostly because it can be manipulated on demand. It would be dumb luck if it happened because the coins were submitted sight unseen by the submitter. What should be first in the sequence, the RP or the S coin? Like selling a strap of $2 bills with consec cert numbers on eBay and claiming they are rare. All you need do is have your bank order them for you.
If you believe TPG companies can reliably and consistantly grade MS/PR69 from 70 coins then consider this.................
For the 25th ASE sets to get FS all 5 coins have to be submitted sealed and unscreened.
In contrast non FS coins can be submitted screened or unscreened.
It is very, very hard to argue that pre-screening will lower the coins grade.
Thus all logic would say the average grade for FS 25th ASE coins should be LOWER than non-FS coins.
If the opposite is seen than it would argue very strongly and most convincingly that either grading standards are different for FS vs. non FS coins or grading standards change as time passes.
Either answer would call into question value of TPG of these coins..............
If you believe TPG companies can reliably and consistantly grade MS/PR69 from 70 coins then consider this.................
For the 25th ASE sets to get FS all 5 coins have to be submitted sealed and unscreened.
In contrast non FS coins can be submitted screened or unscreened.
It is very, very hard to argue that pre-screening will lower the coins grade.
Thus all logic would say the average grade for FS 25th ASE coins should be LOWER than non-FS coins.
If the opposite is seen than it would argue very strongly and most convincingly that either grading standards are different for FS vs. non FS coins or grading standards change as time passes.
Either answer would call into question value of TPG of these coins.............. >>
If you're sending the coins in for non-FS, you still need to send them in sealed to get the 25th anniversary set labels on the 3 non-keys of the set. Only the Reverse proof and the 2011-S can be sent in unsealed and still get that label.
<< <i>First Strike Liberty spouses, buffalo gold fractionals and collector platinum/gold/silver eagles with ms/pf70 grades all sell for hundreds and in some cases a thousand dollars more than the exact same coin with a regular level. Do an ebay completed listing search on a few of these series? In the long run who knows if the label will hold value. Right now with these series in particular, it seems like a pretty safe bet and likely good investment if you plan to sell any coins in the next few years.if you get a bunch of 69s you'll still likely recoup the label cost . with 70s ,especially with shipping delays or popular issues ,you'll make some bucks. >>
Drfish -- I understand the rationale in general. What I question is whether it will hold true in this case, which is different from all others in that all sets shipped before today, meaning virtually all 100,000 of them, are eligible for the degination as long as you pay the $18/coin. In that case, will the designation still carry a premium to the identical coin which was also eligible for the label but doesn't have one?
Super fast turnaround on my submission (modern). they received 11-29. I'm happy with the results, got a 69 set, a 70 set, and the rest are in between with no turds.
<< <i>Super fast turnaround on my submission (modern). they received 11-29. I'm happy with the results, got a 69 set, a 70 set, and the rest are in between with no turds. >>
You did quite well averaging 50% on the two keys for the box. I think over time people will be surprised by those two coins, but in particular the S coin if they don't ever strike another. Even if they issue another S coin in the 30th set I bet they press 250K to 500K of those after the debacle that just transpired. The mint has heard nothing but complaints and I think it's safe to say any future sets are going to have a much larger mintage. No one knows for sure of course, but I think there will be a few people with deep pockets willing to place bets on these if prices keep dropping. I just wish I had more money so I could join them .
>Since all coins in the 25th Anniversary Set were struck at the same time, and since all sets submitted to PCGS in a mint sealed box are eligible for First Strike designation in addition to the 25th Anniversary Set designation, what is the value in paying $90/set for First Strike?
Actually that's not true. I'm getting 3 sets set to me today. They will be individually wrapped and sealed by the Mint but they are no longer eligible for First Strike designation because they were shipped to me after Dec 7th.
I get there are not a ton of people in my position but not all sets will be able to get First Strike.
>Since all coins in the 25th Anniversary Set were struck at the same time, and since all sets submitted to PCGS in a mint sealed box are eligible for First Strike designation in addition to the 25th Anniversary Set designation, what is the value in paying $90/set for First Strike?
Actually that's not true. I'm getting 3 sets set to me today. They will be individually wrapped and sealed by the Mint but they are no longer eligible for First Strike designation because they were shipped to me after Dec 7th.
I get there are not a ton of people in my position but not all sets will be able to get First Strike.
-Keith >>
That sucks big time indeed. But on the bright side you don't have to pay $600+ for an opened set on the BST.
>Since all coins in the 25th Anniversary Set were struck at the same time, and since all sets submitted to PCGS in a mint sealed box are eligible for First Strike designation in addition to the 25th Anniversary Set designation, what is the value in paying $90/set for First Strike?
Actually that's not true. I'm getting 3 sets set to me today. They will be individually wrapped and sealed by the Mint but they are no longer eligible for First Strike designation because they were shipped to me after Dec 7th.
I get there are not a ton of people in my position but not all sets will be able to get First Strike.
-Keith >>
Keith -- Sorry to hear about the late shipment, although I am happy for you that you are getting sets at the issue price. When I originally posed the question, I was under the mistaken assumption that all sets, aside from possibly a few stragglers, would have been shipped by last week. I am sure I am no less surprised than those still receiving sets that the mint is still shipping. That said, the question remains the same. In most cases, only a small subset of a total population is potentially eligible for First Strike. With these sets, probably more than 95% of the total population is eligible. We'll know for sure in the next few days (or weeks) when the all remaining backorders are canceled and we can then make informed guesses regarding how many sets were shipped between 12/8 and the end of shipping.
Any sealed box shipped by the mint before 12/8/11 will be First Strike eligible forever when submitted to PCGS. So, taking out the tiny minority of sets actually shipped by the mint after 12/7/11, such as yours, any coin PCGS labels with "set" could have had a First Strike label for an extra $18/coin. Given this reality, my question was whether the slab would actually be worth an extra $18 to buyers going forward, since the First Strike label wouldn't distinguish the coin in any way from any other 25th Anniversary set coin, with the rare exception of a set such as yours.
I think I have my answer from reading the few posts from illini420 in another thread that state he is getting more money for his non-First Strikes than others are getting for First Strikes, due to the relative scarcity of the non-First Strikes (apparently, virtually all submissions eligible for First Strike opted to pay the $18/coin to receive it) and the fact that some buyers actually prefer the regular label. As a consequence, it appears as though while the flag label is great if you like it, it is not, and will probably never be worth an extra $18/coin for this set in the market, due to the fact that there are so many more of them than the regular 25th Anniversary Set labels, and buyers apparently realize that all of the coins in the set were struck at the same time and the vast majority shipped within the first 30 days, thereby rendering the "First Strike" distinction meaningless for these sets.
So, unless this changes at some point in the future, it appears as though I can save $450 when I send my box of 5 in to be graded without suffering if and when I later sell them, which is exactly what I was originally asking about. Even if non-First Strikes don't carry premiums to First Strikes in the future (assuming everyone figures this out and stops paying extra for First Strike designations, thus evening out the future supply between the two), the fact that non-First Strike actually sells for more today tells me that the market does not place a premium on the First Strike designation in a set such as this, where virtually all sets are eligible for the designation.
<< <i>Couldn't you ever send your FS coins in to be re-holdered as non-FS? >>
Sure, for a fee. $10 reholder fee per coin... but if it's a PR70 or MS70, the reholder fee is $30 per coin. The reholder fees are even higher if the coins are in Secure Plus holders. Plus you have the $8 handling fee per order. Plus you have shipping fees both ways.
My comments and take it FWIW. The Non-First Strike coins point to an anomaly in the grading process either purposeful or by sheer coincidence. Too many sets with MS70 at first and all of a sudden the numbers are tightening???
Reviewing recent completed auctions ( last 2 days ) for the FS against the non FS coins for the same grade (25th Anniversary set)...The FS coins are selling for approx 10% to 25% higher than the non FS coins. That covers the label feel + a small premium.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Comments
The number of 70's are leveling off around 55% overall from a high of around 65% for first week.
Obviously those who posted results here have not seen 50 %.
I believe one reported 44% but most around 15-20%
Has anyone hand delivered them to PCGS and what % did you get?
edited to add: I hand delivered my 5 set box to PCGS at the Baltimore Show.
Should have grades by the end of the week.
<< <i>Thanks 08HALA20, your spreadsheet is very helpful.
edited to add: I hand delivered my 5 set box to PCGS at the Baltimore Show.
Should have grades by the end of the week. >>
Look forward to your grades. I think the extra round of shipping might be killing these.
I think the large submitters did not ship them but hand delivered them.
I am holding my BO5 till I can deliver them.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanks 08HALA20, your spreadsheet is very helpful.
edited to add: I hand delivered my 5 set box to PCGS at the Baltimore Show.
Should have grades by the end of the week. >>
Look forward to your grades. I think the extra round of shipping might be killing these.
I think the large submitters did not ship them but hand delivered them.
I am holding my BO5 till I can deliver them.
Joe >>
Seriously, an extra round of shipping makes the coins (in capsules) go down in grade??? Come on... plus some the big dealers who submitted in quantity had to have their buyers ship the boxes to them first, so their coins went though just as much mailing. Maybe that's why so many more NGC 70s... they're closer to the Mint than PCGS so less time in the mail to damage the coins... whatever!!!!
I could take my coin in the capsule and bounce it all over the place and it isn't going to put even a minor scuff on the coin or put any hits or breaks in the frost. As long as that coin stays in the capsule, you're going to have a very hard time lowering the grade through the mail.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I could take my coin in the capsule and bounce it all over the place and it isn't going to put even a minor scuff on the coin or put any hits or breaks in the frost. As long as that coin stays in the capsule, you're going to have a very hard time lowering the grade through the mail.
illini420, PCGS Reps at the Baltimore show told me that they had several submissions with coins out of their capsules.
Some folks here on the forum said the same thing.
I'm sure the % was low enough that it did not have a big impact on the overall grading scenario.
<< <i>Seriously, an extra round of shipping makes the coins (in capsules) go down in grade??? Come on... plus some the big dealers who submitted in quantity had to have their buyers ship the boxes to them first, so their coins went though just as much mailing. Maybe that's why so many more NGC 70s... they're closer to the Mint than PCGS so less time in the mail to damage the coins... whatever!!!!
I could take my coin in the capsule and bounce it all over the place and it isn't going to put even a minor scuff on the coin or put any hits or breaks in the frost. As long as that coin stays in the capsule, you're going to have a very hard time lowering the grade through the mail.
illini420, PCGS Reps at the Baltimore show told me that they had several submissions with coins out of their capsules.
Some folks here on the forum said the same thing.
I'm sure the % was low enough that it did not have a big impact on the overall grading scenario. >>
I agree that a coin out of the capsule will get some extra damage during extra shipment... but those are the coins that are going to get 68 and lower anyways, just in the shipment from the Mint, unless they are super lucky. But you could ship a coin in the capsule 100 times and as long as it stays in the capsule, its grade should not go down.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>Here are pop reports with weekly increases.
The number of 70's are leveling off around 55% overall from a high of around 65% for first week.
Obviously those who posted results here have not seen 50 %.
I believe one reported 44% but most around 15-20%
Has anyone hand delivered them to PCGS and what % did you get?
>>
08HALA20,
I just received my coins this week. I don't know how to describe my feeling :~
I sent in 5 submissions, with 1 Bo5 for the first four submissions and 2 Bo5 for the fifth submission, so I have submitted quite a large population (30 sets) that I think it is statistically large enough population to get result not too far from the mean.
However, I was WRONG. I don't know how the total population can be around 50% at this moment.
-----------MS -----S-----W-----Pr------RP
1.----------1-------1-----2------4-------1
2.----------2-------0-----1------2-------4
3.----------0-------3-----2------2-------3
4.----------0-------1-----1------0-------3
5.----------2-------0-----4------1-------6
Total--(5/30)-(5/30)-(10/30)-(9/30)-(17/30)
I have 5 boxes directly shipped to me or to my friends, which I picked them up myself, so these 5 boxes did not get shipped twice. Also those boxes are from orders span from 12:05 to 3:00pm, so I don't think the quality difference from different shipment is that big.
My conclusion:
My submission result are in line with the shared PCGS results, and to those reported here as individual submitters.
I think that most of the Flag Label submission got the 15%-20% percent.
I don't want to speculate why the overall percentage is around 50% because I don't want to get that far and get banned. >>
I'd be pretty dissapointed with those grades after looking at the pop reports. It would have be reasonble for you to think you would be getting back about 15-17 MS 70 sets and some partials after seeing the pop reports. WOW!
That got me to a total of 268 sets. The 70's percentages are listed below (I have data on all the other grades too).
There are over 6% 68 and under grades on all coins except for the 2011-W MS. The 2011-W PR has the worst rate of 68 or lower (8.96%).
Just putting numbers out there for people to think about which happen to be more in line with numbers I've seen from other board members.
509408 2011
29.10%
509189 2011-S
20.90%
509409 2011-W
46.27%
509410 2011-W PR
27.61%
509194 2011-P
39.18%
got 9 70's each time for a total of 18
8 2011-W MS70,
1 2011 MS70
1 2011-S MS70
4 2011-P PR70
4 2011-W PR70
I'm a glutton, sending 5 more set today.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
I've got no PR70 for my Reverse Proof and only one for "S" from my Box of 5
I'm thinking to try the "second chance" and debating 2 options:
1. Submit for regrade using current CC special.
Pros: The cost is only 4*14 Modern Submission + S/H fees. No additional charge for 5 First Strike
Cons: Re-grade is possibly biased
2. Crack them out and resubmit fresh in next 2 days (Dec 7th is cut-off)
Pros: True "second" chance
Cons: $104 more (5*18 + 14) than option one
Any suggestions?
<< <i>If 70s are so easy to get ...
I've got no PR70 for my Reverse Proof and only one for "S" from my Box of 5
I'm thinking to try the "second chance" and debating 2 options:
1. Submit for regrade using current CC special.
Pros: The cost is only 4*14 Modern Submission + S/H fees. No additional charge for 5 First Strike
Cons: Re-grade is possibly biased
2. Crack them out and resubmit fresh in next 2 days (Dec 7th is cut-off)
Pros: True "second" chance
Cons: $104 more (5*18 + 14) than option one
Any suggestions? >>
The first thing I'd do is to really look at the coins to see why they may have been graded 69. 16/25 of my coins were graded 69 or lower and on 14 of them I could see a reason why. Only on 2 of the coins did I not understand why they were not perfect (maybe an issue hidden by the rubber gasket? or maybe I just didn't see it?).
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Order time: 2:50pm EST
Two 70 sets
Three 70 RP's
Three 70 PR's
Three 70 Unc's
Total: Thirteen 70's
<< <i>Damn, I'm pumped........not sure if hand delivery helped, but you got to consider it.
Order time: 2:50pm EST
Two 70 sets
Three 70 RP's
Three 70 PR's
Three 70 Unc's
Total: Thirteen 70's
Nice job!! Glad I still got a few more than you. Mine were hand delivered, but shipped twice total before being walked in.
This is getting out of hands - do I need to count now a number of delivery attempts by UPS to estimate the rate of 70s
My last box was delivered on the last 3rd attempt - should I even not bother submitting them
<< <i>Mine were hand delivered, but shipped twice total before being walked in
This is getting out of hands - do I need to count now a number of delivery attempts by UPS to estimate the rate of 70s
My last box was delivered on the last 3rd attempt - should I even not bother submitting them
I don't think the shipping part matters. Mine were shipped to me from the mint. Then I shipped them 600 miles south. Then that person to them to our hosts. I heard rattling so some were out bouncing in the box, obviously not out of the capsules based on grades. Even with shipping twice I got very good grades.
Thanks Todd....deed you did!!
<< <i>Nice job!! Glad I still got a few more than you. Mine were hand delivered, but shipped twice total before being walked in.
Thanks Todd....deed you did!!
To bad you didn't get a sequential numbered set in either 69 or 70
Too bad PCGS won't take all the 70's and put them in sequence.
Will they do that on request?
Did anyone get a set like this on this forum?
What kind of premium does a seller/buyer put on that set??
<< <i>
<< <i>OK, someone please digest this and give the classic guys the real skinny. MJ >>
I wonder about the FS vs. NFS 69/70 ratios!!!
Here are the latest Pops once again for page five of the thread!!
Pops as of Sunday 12/04/11..............................
Non First Strike............................
wow, my Non-strike strikes are RARE!
To bad I got only one 70, out of ten (but only one 68 also the W.) the balance are 69's, but of course not consecutive.
<< <i>To bad you didn't get a sequential numbered set in either 69 or 70
Too bad PCGS won't take all the 70's and put them in sequence.
Will they do that on request?
Did anyone get a set like this on this forum?
What kind of premium does a seller/buyer put on that set?? >>
It is silly and meaningless to all but the most anal/OCD of collectors mostly because it can be manipulated on demand. It would be dumb luck if it happened because the coins were submitted sight unseen by the submitter. What should be first in the sequence, the RP or the S coin? Like selling a strap of $2 bills with consec cert numbers on eBay and claiming they are rare. All you need do is have your bank order them for you.
If you believe TPG companies can reliably and consistantly grade MS/PR69 from 70 coins then consider this.................
For the 25th ASE sets to get FS all 5 coins have to be submitted sealed and unscreened.
In contrast non FS coins can be submitted screened or unscreened.
It is very, very hard to argue that pre-screening will lower the coins grade.
Thus all logic would say the average grade for FS 25th ASE coins should be LOWER than non-FS coins.
If the opposite is seen than it would argue very strongly and most convincingly that either grading standards are different for FS vs. non FS coins or grading standards change as time passes.
Either answer would call into question value of TPG of these coins..............
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 24034037 509408 2011 $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
1 2 24034038 509408 2011 $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
1 3 24034039 509408 2011 $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
1 4 24034040 509408 2011 $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
1 5 24034041 509408 2011 $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
2 1 24034042 509409 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
2 2 24034043 509409 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
2 3 24034044 509409 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
2 4 24034045 509409 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
2 5 24034046 509409 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
3 1 24034047 509410 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
3 2 24034048 509410 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
3 3 24034049 509410 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
3 4 24034050 509410 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
3 5 24034051 509410 2011-W $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
4 1 24034052 509194 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR USA 96 - No Service / Refund
4 2 24034053 509194 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR USA 96 - No Service / Refund
4 3 24034054 509194 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR USA 96 - No Service / Refund
4 4 24034055 509194 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR USA 96 - No Service / Refund
4 5 24034056 509194 2011-P $1 Silver Eagle Reverse PR USA 96 - No Service / Refund
5 1 24034057 509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
5 2 24034058 509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
5 3 24034059 509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
5 4 24034060 509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
5 5 24034061 509189 2011-S $1 Silver Eagle USA 96 - No Service / Refund
<< <i>Something to consider..............
If you believe TPG companies can reliably and consistantly grade MS/PR69 from 70 coins then consider this.................
For the 25th ASE sets to get FS all 5 coins have to be submitted sealed and unscreened.
In contrast non FS coins can be submitted screened or unscreened.
It is very, very hard to argue that pre-screening will lower the coins grade.
Thus all logic would say the average grade for FS 25th ASE coins should be LOWER than non-FS coins.
If the opposite is seen than it would argue very strongly and most convincingly that either grading standards are different for FS vs. non FS coins or grading standards change as time passes.
Either answer would call into question value of TPG of these coins.............. >>
If you're sending the coins in for non-FS, you still need to send them in sealed to get the 25th anniversary set labels on the 3 non-keys of the set. Only the Reverse proof and the 2011-S can be sent in unsealed and still get that label.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
With a significant sample size the Non FS reverse proof and 2011-s should grade equal to or higher than the FS coins.
We'll see how it works out..............
<< <i>First Strike Liberty spouses, buffalo gold fractionals and collector platinum/gold/silver eagles with ms/pf70 grades all sell for hundreds and in some cases a thousand dollars more than the exact same coin with a regular level. Do an ebay completed listing search on a few of these series? In the long run who knows if the label will hold value. Right now with these series in particular, it seems like a pretty safe bet and likely good investment if you plan to sell any coins in the next few years.if you get a bunch of 69s you'll still likely recoup the label cost . with 70s ,especially with shipping delays or popular issues ,you'll make some bucks. >>
Drfish -- I understand the rationale in general. What I question is whether it will hold true in this case, which is different from all others in that all sets shipped before today, meaning virtually all 100,000 of them, are eligible for the degination as long as you pay the $18/coin. In that case, will the designation still carry a premium to the identical coin which was also eligible for the label but doesn't have one?
Mark
<< <i>Super fast turnaround on my submission (modern). they received 11-29. I'm happy with the results, got a 69 set, a 70 set, and the rest are in between with no turds. >>
You did quite well averaging 50% on the two keys for the box. I think over time people will be surprised by those two coins, but in particular the S coin if they don't ever strike another. Even if they issue another S coin in the 30th set I bet they press 250K to 500K of those after the debacle that just transpired. The mint has heard nothing but complaints and I think it's safe to say any future sets are going to have a much larger mintage. No one knows for sure of course, but I think there will be a few people with deep pockets willing to place bets on these if prices keep dropping. I just wish I had more money so I could join them
<< <i>What is the other key other than the 2011-s? >>
The Reverse Proof.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
>Since all coins in the 25th Anniversary Set were struck at the same time, and since all sets submitted to PCGS in a mint sealed box are eligible for First Strike designation in addition to the 25th Anniversary Set designation, what is the value in paying $90/set for First Strike?
Actually that's not true. I'm getting 3 sets set to me today. They will be individually wrapped and sealed by the Mint but they are no longer eligible for First Strike designation because they were shipped to me after Dec 7th.
I get there are not a ton of people in my position but not all sets will be able to get First Strike.
-Keith
<< <i>NJCoin,
>Since all coins in the 25th Anniversary Set were struck at the same time, and since all sets submitted to PCGS in a mint sealed box are eligible for First Strike designation in addition to the 25th Anniversary Set designation, what is the value in paying $90/set for First Strike?
Actually that's not true. I'm getting 3 sets set to me today. They will be individually wrapped and sealed by the Mint but they are no longer eligible for First Strike designation because they were shipped to me after Dec 7th.
I get there are not a ton of people in my position but not all sets will be able to get First Strike.
-Keith >>
That sucks big time indeed. But on the bright side you don't have to pay $600+ for an opened set on the BST.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>NJCoin,
>Since all coins in the 25th Anniversary Set were struck at the same time, and since all sets submitted to PCGS in a mint sealed box are eligible for First Strike designation in addition to the 25th Anniversary Set designation, what is the value in paying $90/set for First Strike?
Actually that's not true. I'm getting 3 sets set to me today. They will be individually wrapped and sealed by the Mint but they are no longer eligible for First Strike designation because they were shipped to me after Dec 7th.
I get there are not a ton of people in my position but not all sets will be able to get First Strike.
-Keith >>
Keith -- Sorry to hear about the late shipment, although I am happy for you that you are getting sets at the issue price. When I originally posed the question, I was under the mistaken assumption that all sets, aside from possibly a few stragglers, would have been shipped by last week. I am sure I am no less surprised than those still receiving sets that the mint is still shipping. That said, the question remains the same. In most cases, only a small subset of a total population is potentially eligible for First Strike. With these sets, probably more than 95% of the total population is eligible. We'll know for sure in the next few days (or weeks) when the all remaining backorders are canceled and we can then make informed guesses regarding how many sets were shipped between 12/8 and the end of shipping.
Any sealed box shipped by the mint before 12/8/11 will be First Strike eligible forever when submitted to PCGS. So, taking out the tiny minority of sets actually shipped by the mint after 12/7/11, such as yours, any coin PCGS labels with "set" could have had a First Strike label for an extra $18/coin. Given this reality, my question was whether the slab would actually be worth an extra $18 to buyers going forward, since the First Strike label wouldn't distinguish the coin in any way from any other 25th Anniversary set coin, with the rare exception of a set such as yours.
I think I have my answer from reading the few posts from illini420 in another thread that state he is getting more money for his non-First Strikes than others are getting for First Strikes, due to the relative scarcity of the non-First Strikes (apparently, virtually all submissions eligible for First Strike opted to pay the $18/coin to receive it) and the fact that some buyers actually prefer the regular label. As a consequence, it appears as though while the flag label is great if you like it, it is not, and will probably never be worth an extra $18/coin for this set in the market, due to the fact that there are so many more of them than the regular 25th Anniversary Set labels, and buyers apparently realize that all of the coins in the set were struck at the same time and the vast majority shipped within the first 30 days, thereby rendering the "First Strike" distinction meaningless for these sets.
So, unless this changes at some point in the future, it appears as though I can save $450 when I send my box of 5 in to be graded without suffering if and when I later sell them, which is exactly what I was originally asking about. Even if non-First Strikes don't carry premiums to First Strikes in the future (assuming everyone figures this out and stops paying extra for First Strike designations, thus evening out the future supply between the two), the fact that non-First Strike actually sells for more today tells me that the market does not place a premium on the First Strike designation in a set such as this, where virtually all sets are eligible for the designation.
-- Mark
<< <i>Couldn't you ever send your FS coins in to be re-holdered as non-FS? >>
Sure, for a fee. $10 reholder fee per coin... but if it's a PR70 or MS70, the reholder fee is $30 per coin. The reholder fees are even higher if the coins are in Secure Plus holders. Plus you have the $8 handling fee per order. Plus you have shipping fees both ways.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
69 to 70 ratio starts to tighten, folks!!!!!!!
POPS as of 12/11/11............................
First Strike®..............
...............................................................................................................................................................................................
Check out the 69 to 70 ratio on these non FS's!!!
Non First Strike............................
Look forward to the forum comments on these, the latest Pops available on the 25th anniversary ASE sets!
<< <i>Do I see some 62's???? OPA you are not low man anymore, sorry!!! 69 to 70 ratio starts to tighten, folks!!!!!!! >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Do I see some 62's???? OPA you are not low man anymore, sorry!!! 69 to 70 ratio starts to tighten, folks!!!!!!! >>
Darn, I read the report wrong.....there is a 63, a 64, and a previous 65......the only 62 is from another mint year!
<< <i>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say eventually it will matter what the coins actually look like. >>
FS and non-FS coins look the same.
<< <i>It seems that if you pay for a designation of FS...your "more' likely to get a 70....
Really? You can't proof that theory by my grades...I received 4 - 70's out of a total of 30 coins with 3 different submissions.